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Author Topic: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?  (Read 2957 times)

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blituri

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When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« on: February 13, 2010, 03:04:03 PM »
Do you think that it is possible to be saved as a Christian and not be aware of the meaning of ekklesia or synagogue?

"Hymnody developed systematically, however, only after the emperor Constantine legalized Christianity (AD 313); and it flourished earliest in Syria,
      where the practice was possibly taken over from the
    singing by Gnostics and Manichaeans of hymns imitating the psalms.

The Byzantine Church adopted the practice; in its liturgy, hymns maintain a much more prominent place than in the Latin liturgy; and Byzantine hymnody developed complex types such as the kanon and kontakion (qq.v.; see also Byzantine chant). Saint Ephraem--a 4th-century Mesopotamian deacon, poet, and hymnist--has been called the "father of Christian hymnody." [year 373]  Britannica Online

In the West, St. Hilary of Poitiers composed a book of hymn texts in about 360. Not much later St. Ambrose of Milan instituted the congregational singing of psalms and hymns,
      partly as a counter to the hymns of the Arians,
      who were in doctrinal conflict with orthodox Christianity.
In poetic form (iambic octosyllables in four-line stanzas), these early hymns--apparently sung to simple, possibly folk melodies--derive from Christian Latin poetry of the period.

By the late Middle Ages trained choirs had supplanted the congregation in the singing of hymns. Although new, often more ornate melodies were composed and many earlier melodies were elaborated, one syllable of text per note was usual. Some polyphonic hymn settings were used, usually in alternation with plainchants, and were particularly important in organ music.

Congregational singing in the liturgy was re-established only during the Reformation, by the Lutheran Church in Germany.

    The early chorale (q.v.), or German hymn melody,
    was unharmonized and sung unaccompanied,
         although harmonized versions,
         used by varying combinations of choir, organ, and congregation, appeared later.

Swiss, and later, French, English, and Scottish Calvinism promoted the singing of metrical translations of the psalter (see psalmody), austerely set for unaccompanied unison singing. English and Scottish Protestantism admitted only the singing of psalms.

English metrical psalms were set to tunes adapted from the French and Genevan psalters. These were fairly complex melodies written on French metres. The English psalter used only a few metres, and the custom of singing each psalm to its “proper

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When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« on: February 13, 2010, 03:04:03 PM »

Offline Ryan2010

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2010, 03:37:50 PM »


Quote
The Bible commands "that which is written" or "that which has been taught."
None of the Spirit or Words of Christ are metrical.

Therefore, no one used any "musical" concept until well into apostasy.



You should study the liturgy from people that have devoted their lives to studying liturgy (both Christian and Jewish liturgy). 

Here's just a snip-it from the Jewish encyclopedia:

The development of music among the Israelites was coincident with that of poetry, the two being equally ancient, since every poem was also sung. Although little mention is made of it, music was used in very early times in connection with divine service. Amos vi. 5 and Isa. v. 12 show that the feasts immediately following sacrifices were very often attended with music, and from Amos v. 23 it may be gathered that songs had already become a part of the regular service. Moreover, popular festivals of all kinds were celebrated with singing and music, usually accompanying dances in which, as a rule, women and maidens joined. Victorious generals were welcomed with music on their return (Judges xi. 34; I Sam. xviii. 6), and music naturally accompanied the dances at harvest festivals (Judges ix. 27, xxi. 21) and at the accession of kings or their marriages (I Kings i. 40; Ps. xlv. 9). Family festivals of different kinds were celebrated with music (Gen. xxxi. 27; Jer. xxv. 10). I Sam. xvi. 18 indicates that the shepherd cheered his loneliness with his reed-pipe, and Lam. v. 14 shows that youths coming together at the gates entertained one another with stringed instruments. David by his playing on the harp drove away the spirit of melancholy from Saul (I Sam. xvi. 16 et seq.); the holy ecstasy of the Prophets was stimulated by dancing and music (I Sam. x. 5, 10; xix. 20); playing on a harp awoke the inspiration that came to Elisha (II Kings iii. 15). The description in Chronicles of the embellishment by David of the Temple service with a rich musical liturgy represents in essence the order of the Second Temple, since, as is now generally admitted, the liturgical Temple Psalms belong to the post-exilic period.

The importance which music attained in the later exilic period is shown by the fact that in the original writings of Ezra and Nehemiah a distinction is still drawn between the singers and the Levites (comp. Ezra ii. 41, 70; vii. 7, 24; x. 23; Neh. vii. 44, 73; x. 29, 40; etc.); whereas in the parts of the books of Ezra and Nehemiah belonging to the Chronicles singers are reckoned among the Levites (comp. Ezra iii. 10; Neh. xi. 22; xii. 8, 24, 27; I Chron. vi. 16). In later times singers even received a priestly position, since Agrippa II. gave them permission to wear the white priestly garment (comp. Josephus, "Ant." xx. 9, § 6). The detailed statements of the Talmud show that the service became ever more richly embellished.

Singing in the Temple.
(see image) Egyptian Musicians.(From Ball, "Light from the East.")

Unfortunately few definite statements can be made concerning the kind and the degree of the artistic development of music and psalm-singing. Only so much seems certain, that the folk-music of older times was replaced by professional music, which was learned by the families of singers who officiated in the Temple. The participation of the congregation in the Temple song was limited to certain responses, such as "Amen" or "Halleluiah," or formulas like "Since His mercy endureth forever," etc. As in the old folk-songs, antiphonal singing, or the singing of choirs in response to each other, was a feature of the Temple service. At the dedication of the walls of Jerusalem, Nehemiah formed the Levitical singers into two large choruses, which, after having marched around the city walls in different directions, stood opposite each other at the Temple and sang alternate hymns of praise to God (Neh. xii. 31). Niebuhr ("Reisen," i. 176) calls attention to the fact that in the Orient it is still the custom for a precentor to sing one strophe, which is repeated three, four, or five tones lower by the other singers. In this connection mention may bemade of the alternating song of the seraphim in the Temple, when called upon by Isaiah (comp. Isa. vi.). The measure must have varied according to the character of the song; and it is not improbable that it changed even in the same song. Without doubt the striking of the cymbals marked the measure.

What Western peoples understand by harmony is still incomprehensible to the Arabs. They consider it "a wild and unpleasant noise, in which no sensible person can take pleasure." Niebuhr refers to the fact that when Arabs play on different instruments and sing at the same time, almost the same melody is heard from all, unless one of them sings or plays as bass one and the same note throughout. It was probably the same with the Israelites in olden times, who attuned the stringed instruments to the voices of the singers either on the same note or in the octave or at some other consonant interval. This explains the remark in II Chron. v. 13 that at the dedication of the Temple the playing of the instruments, the singing of the Psalms, and the blare of the trumpets sounded as one sound. Probably the unison of the singing of Psalms was the accord of two voices an octave apart. This may explain the terms "'al 'alamot" and "'al ha-sheminit." On account of the important part which women from the earliest times took in singing, it is comprehensible that the higher pitch was simply called the "maiden's key," and "ha-sheminit" would then be an octave lower.

There is no question that melodies repeated in each strophe, in the modern manner, were not sung at either the earlier or the later periods of psalm-singing; since no such thing as regular strophes occurred in Hebrew poetry. In fact, in the earlier times there were no strophes at all; and although they are found later, they are by no means so regular as in modern poetry. Melody, therefore, must then have had comparatively great freedom and elasticity and must have been like the Oriental melody of to-day. As Niebuhr points out, the melodies are earnest and simple, and the singers must make every word intelligible. A comparison has often been made with the eight notes of the Gregorian chant or with the Oriental psalmody introduced into the church of Milan by Ambrosius: the latter, however, was certainly developed under the influence of Grecian music, although in origin it may have had some connection with the ancient synagogal psalm-singing, as Delitzsch claims that it was ("Psalmen," 3d ed., p. 27).

Read more: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1021&letter=M&search=music#ixzz0fST37iKX
Yea, O Lord and King,
grant that I may perceive
my own transgressions,
and judge not my brother,
for blessed art Thou
unto ages of ages.

Amen.

-- St. Ephrem's prayer

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2010, 03:37:50 PM »

blituri

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2010, 04:28:34 PM »
Strange when people use as PATTERNISM that which the Bible and decent society condemned.

Although little mention is made of it, music was used in very early times in connection with divine service. Amos vi. 5 and Isa. v. 12 show that the feasts immediately following sacrifices were very often attended with music, and from Amos v. 23 it may be gathered that songs had already become a part of the regular service.

Stephen in Acts 7 repeats the Amos story as continuing the ABANDONMENT to worship the starry host. They continued the musical idolatry as at Mount Sinai.

If any of the Bible text was metrical then the ADDITIONS of meter I just mentioned would not have been necessary. None of the Bible is metrical in a tuneful sense.  When you recite the words of God or a god you are said to sing. The Jews "cantillated" which is rhymic prose and not singy-clappy.  Cantilate means SPEAK.

"The chant of ancient Hebrews was rhythmical, but probably free of fixed meter. Perhaps the only exceptions were the dancing songs of women, usually accompanied by percussion instruments." (Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible, p. 466)

The music of ancient Greece was inseparable from poetry and dancing. It was entirely monodic, there being no harmony as the term is commonly understood.


Not until David did males ever engage in this: it was reserved for the women usually prostitutes.

HEAR ye this word which I take up against you, even a lamentation, O house of Israel. Amos 5:1

Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light. Amos 5:18

As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. Amos 5:19

Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it? Amos 5:20

I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. Amos 5:21


    That is because God not command the sacrifices but they were part of the worship of the
    starry host to whom God ABANDONED them.

    Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant,
        we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Isa 1:9

    Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; [Jerusalem]
         give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. Isaiah 1:10

    To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord:
    I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts;
    and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. Isaiah 1: 11

    When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand,
         to tread my courts? Isaiah 1: 12

Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings,
    I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
    Amos 5:22

Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs;
        for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. Amos 5:23


JFB notes: 23. Take . . . away from me--literally, "Take away, from upon Me"; the idea being that of a burden pressing upon the bearer. So Isa 1:14, "They are a trouble unto Me (literally, 'a burden upon Me'): I am weary to bear them.

      The LADED BURDEN Jesus came to remove in both Hebrew and Greek are singing
       and playing instruments.  It creates spiritual anxiety through religious rituals.
      Paul's used SELF pleasure to outlaw all of the performaning arts.

       http://www.piney.com/MuBurden.html
       http://www.piney.com/MuRest.html


"the noise of thy songs--The hymns and instrumental music on sacred occasions are to Me nothing but a disagreeable noise.

I will not hear--Isaiah substitutes "prayers" (Isa 1:15) for the "songs" and "melody" here; but, like Amos, closes with "I will not hear. Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. Isaiah 1: 13


THE SIGNS OF THE END

Amos 8:1 Thus hath the Lord GOD shewed unto me:
        and behold a basket of summer fruit. [Catamites: same singers, players in Rev 18]
Amos 8:2 And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit.
        Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel;
        I will not again pass by them any more.
Amos 8:3 And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord GOD:
        there shall be many dead bodies in every place;
        they shall cast them forth with silence.

THE CAUSE OF BEING LOST BEYOND REDEMPTION

Amos 8:10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation;
        and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head;
        and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.
Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD,
        that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water,
        but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea,
        and from the north even to the east,
        they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD,
        and shall not find it.

You will find little and then twisted WORD OF THE LORD in the sermons and none in the songs: maybe God has been there and gone?

I THINK THE END HAS COME AND GOD WILL NOT PASS BY AGAIN.  The message of the speakers, singers and instrument players as SORCERS in Revelation 18 was a mark that the CANDLES have been removed.

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2010, 06:26:23 PM »
Q.  When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?

A.  Disco
taller, better looking and smarter . . .

They turned me loose from the nervous hospital.  Said I was well.  Mmm hmm.

Suffering for your beliefs is called faithfulness, making others suffer for your beliefs is called being a jerk.

His cross, like the ark in the wilderness, is the center around which his people are to encamp; so that they cannot separate into factions, or withdraw from each other, without retiring at the same time from the presence of the cross.

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2010, 06:26:23 PM »

Offline Jimbob

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2010, 08:36:15 PM »
“Only he who believes is obedient and only he who is obedient believes.”
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“Followers of Jesus don't get to decide if they will be missionaries. They just get to choose where.”
- Rick Atchley

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2010, 08:36:15 PM »



Offline Mere Nick

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2010, 09:09:30 PM »
Didn't they open for the Stones a few years back?
taller, better looking and smarter . . .

They turned me loose from the nervous hospital.  Said I was well.  Mmm hmm.

Suffering for your beliefs is called faithfulness, making others suffer for your beliefs is called being a jerk.

His cross, like the ark in the wilderness, is the center around which his people are to encamp; so that they cannot separate into factions, or withdraw from each other, without retiring at the same time from the presence of the cross.

blituri

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2010, 10:06:09 PM »
Most often when people attack the Restoration Movement they are really attacking what they call the ANTI-instrumental groups just because NOT using instruments needed no restoration in groups called The Church of Christ for 2,000 years.  Therefore, the mocking might not be under the control of the mocker. They are easily believed because they look and sound like angels of light.  Why else could someone write a circulated paper saying JUST THE OPPOSITE of what the writer said and clearly meant?  I believe that is the always "way of escape" for those who are disciples.  Sounds like that Old Black Magic got me under a spell? How would we know?

Jude 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words
Jude 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time,
        who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jude 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Jude and others liberally quote the Book of Enoch which defines the FOR WHOM God will come in judgment as those Satan seduced using mixed-sex choirs, instrumental music and sexy apparel. This was used to seduce the faithful away from the Living Word and nothing has changed.

You cannot get out of card class until you are a student of Enoch:

http://www.piney.com/ApocEnoch1.html

Enoch 7: 10 Then they took wives, each choosing for himself;
      whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited;
      teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.

Incantations or songs like ALL musical terms point to sorcery or doing mind altering through external means. The bad thing, according to Enoch, and many parallel views in the Bible and medical science, is that when you have FALLEN it is more fatal than CRACK and you probably cannot get up.

Epaeidô, contr. Att. epaidô , fut. A. -aisomai Ar.Ec.1153 , etc.; -aisô Ach.Tat.2.7 :--sing to or in accompaniment, Magos  2.sing as an incantationcharms or incantations, Pl.Tht.157c; epaeidôn by means of charms,

EXAMPLES for which you will never find any exception: the MARK is absolute.

Euripides, Electra. Set your step to the dance, my dear, [860]  like a fawn leaping high up to heaven with joy. Your brother is victorious and has accomplished the wearing of a crown . . . beside the streams of Alpheus. Come sing [865]  a glorious victory ode, to my dance.

[608a] will gladly have the best possible case made out for her goodness and truth, but so long as she is unable to make good her defence
     we shall chant over to ourselves as we listen the reasons that we have given
          as a counter-charm to her spell,
          to preserve us from slipping back into the childish loves of the multitude;
for we have come to see that we must not take such poetry seriously as a serious thing that lays hold on truth, but that he who lends an ear to it must be on his guard


That is why Christ in the wilderness and Paul and all of the NOT MUSICAL passages commanded the word SPEAK which is what you do in BIBLE CLASS. The word SPEAK is clearly defined and used in the Greek language as the OPPOSITE of POETRY or MUSIC. Everyone knew that slick willies "set their lies to melodies to cheat the simple minded."

A performer is a:

Magos 3.enchanter, wizard, esp. in bad sense, impostor, charlatan, Heraclit.14, S.OT387,  Act.Ap.13.6

Oedipus [385] Creon the trustworthy, Creon, my old friend, has crept upon me by stealth, yearning to overthrow me, and has suborned such a scheming juggler as this, a tricky quack, who has eyes only for profit, but is blind in his art! [390] Come, tell me, where have you proved yourself a seer? Why, when the watchful dog who wove dark song was here, did you say nothing to free the people?

Acts 13:6 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Bar-jesus:

Incantations and cutting of roots points to the sorcery word in Revelation 18: Circe the mother of harlots used magical songs along with drugs (induced by music) to seduce people and then turn them into swine.

The problem with ENCHANTMENT is that is shuts down your left, rational, spiritual, masculine hemisphere and just opens the sluice gates to that the false teachers can POUR IN the junk and you THINK that it was your idea all along.

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 08:02:37 PM »
Blituri, this post is for you and Nick.  I do believe we probably can find complete agreement that this is absolutely the dumbest thing to ever be wear the label "worship"...


And if not, this surely is...



This is an example of being so open-minded your brains done fell out.
“Only he who believes is obedient and only he who is obedient believes.”
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“Followers of Jesus don't get to decide if they will be missionaries. They just get to choose where.”
- Rick Atchley

Offline zoonance

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2010, 08:42:04 PM »
August 25,2006 around here at about 09:30:23 AM.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 09:01:44 PM by zoonance »

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2010, 09:25:23 PM »
James, isn't that Blituri there bustin' a move towards the end of that first one?
taller, better looking and smarter . . .

They turned me loose from the nervous hospital.  Said I was well.  Mmm hmm.

Suffering for your beliefs is called faithfulness, making others suffer for your beliefs is called being a jerk.

His cross, like the ark in the wilderness, is the center around which his people are to encamp; so that they cannot separate into factions, or withdraw from each other, without retiring at the same time from the presence of the cross.

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 09:14:53 AM »
James, isn't that Blituri there bustin' a move towards the end of that first one?


Lively:  Why would you say that of Blituri?
When a man or woman is honestly mistaken and hears the truth,
they will either quit being mistaken, or they will cease to be honest.

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2010, 11:36:18 AM »
The Church I attend doesn't use instruments during worship, with the exception of the voices that God gave us, but our worship isn't less musical or poetic.  Sometimes less is more. 

With all that you can see, touch, taste, smell and hear at the Church, it can also be said that sometimes more is more.  Like most things in life, it's a paradox.




God bless





Yea, O Lord and King,
grant that I may perceive
my own transgressions,
and judge not my brother,
for blessed art Thou
unto ages of ages.

Amen.

-- St. Ephrem's prayer

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2010, 12:15:06 PM »
James, isn't that Blituri there bustin' a move towards the end of that first one?
To quote my single-digit aged daughter as she walked in while it was playing, "I'm not watching  this.  It's pretty dumb."

Out of the mouths of babes.
“Only he who believes is obedient and only he who is obedient believes.”
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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 01:06:58 PM »
James, isn't that Blituri there bustin' a move towards the end of that first one?
To quote my single-digit aged daughter as she walked in while it was playing, "I'm not watching  this.  It's pretty dumb."

Out of the mouths of babes.

I think I'll twirl my sock the next time our congregation fires up the ol' 728b.  Mmm hmm.
taller, better looking and smarter . . .

They turned me loose from the nervous hospital.  Said I was well.  Mmm hmm.

Suffering for your beliefs is called faithfulness, making others suffer for your beliefs is called being a jerk.

His cross, like the ark in the wilderness, is the center around which his people are to encamp; so that they cannot separate into factions, or withdraw from each other, without retiring at the same time from the presence of the cross.

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Re: When did the MUSICAL APOSTASY begin?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2010, 03:21:35 PM »
rofl   Please, please put that (and the reaction) on Youtube.  I'll pay for the sock.
“Only he who believes is obedient and only he who is obedient believes.”
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“Followers of Jesus don't get to decide if they will be missionaries. They just get to choose where.”
- Rick Atchley