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Offline Scooby

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #465 on: February 05, 2011, 07:16:40 AM »
Greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,


One issue that comes up is when we hear something out of scripture we are not used to thinking about--it tends to confuse us. This portion deals with the fact that the Apostle Paul Teaches That Old Testament "Scripture" Is Not New Testament "Doctrine"

In our memorization of scripture--not many folks remember this text --2Ti 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

On the other hand just about everyone knows this one --2Ti 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2Ti 3:17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

What we have not done is to learn to divide the word of God as God has done--by covenants.

Those who attempt to use 2 Timothy 3:15-17 to teach that "all" (or even some) Old Testament scripture is "profitable" as New Testament "doctrine," contradict and deny what Paul really teaches in clear New Testament "doctrine" on this question.

Notice how Paul denies such a false interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:15-17, for he declares that it is not "sound doctrine," not a doctrine or knowledge of New Testament "truth," not a doctrine or part of the "words of faith that saves," not a part of "the grace of God which saves," never a part of Paul's teaching as an inspired apostle of Jesus Christ.

"3As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine," (1 Tim. 1:3).

"10...and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust" (1 Tim. 1:10-11).

"19Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck" (1 Tim. 1:19-20).
"4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:4).

"15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

"6If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained...16Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." (1 Tim. 4:6, 16).

"17Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine" (1 Tim. 5:17).

"1Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed...3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself." (1 Tim. 6:1, 3-5).

"13Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus." (2 Tim. 1:13).

"2And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2).

"10But thou hast fully known my doctrine," (2 Tim. 3:10).

" 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:" (2 Tim. 2:2-7).

"9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. 10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake. 12One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth" (Titus  1:9-14).

"10Not purloining, but showing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee" (Titus 2:10-15).


Most of us have read these scriptures..but see then now in the light of Paul applying 2 Tim 3:16-17
Scooby ::preachit::

  

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #465 on: February 05, 2011, 07:16:40 AM »

Offline zoonance

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #466 on: February 07, 2011, 07:16:49 PM »
Greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,


One issue that comes up is when we hear something out of scripture we are not used to thinking about--it tends to confuse us. This portion deals with the fact that the Apostle Paul Teaches That Old Testament "Scripture" Is Not New Testament "Doctrine"

In our memorization of scripture--not many folks remember this text --2Ti 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

On the other hand just about everyone knows this one --2Ti 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2Ti 3:17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

What we have not done is to learn to divide the word of God as God has done--by covenants.

Those who attempt to use 2 Timothy 3:15-17 to teach that "all" (or even some) Old Testament scripture is "profitable" as New Testament "doctrine," contradict and deny what Paul really teaches in clear New Testament "doctrine" on this question.

Notice how Paul denies such a false interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:15-17, for he declares that it is not "sound doctrine," not a doctrine or knowledge of New Testament "truth," not a doctrine or part of the "words of faith that saves," not a part of "the grace of God which saves," never a part of Paul's teaching as an inspired apostle of Jesus Christ.

"3As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine," (1 Tim. 1:3).

"10...and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust" (1 Tim. 1:10-11).

"19Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck" (1 Tim. 1:19-20).
"4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:4).

"15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

"6If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained...16Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." (1 Tim. 4:6, 16).

"17Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine" (1 Tim. 5:17).

"1Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed...3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself." (1 Tim. 6:1, 3-5).

"13Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus." (2 Tim. 1:13).

"2And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2).

"10But thou hast fully known my doctrine," (2 Tim. 3:10).

" 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:" (2 Tim. 2:2-7).

"9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. 10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake. 12One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth" (Titus  1:9-14).

"10Not purloining, but showing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee" (Titus 2:10-15).


Most of us have read these scriptures..but see then now in the light of Paul applying 2 Tim 3:16-17
Scooby ::preachit::

  





Have you actually read Paul's second letter to Timothy in its entirety in one setting as one would read a letter?  Paul didn't cut and paste himself.

Modified:  My apologies.  Have you read any of Paul's letters, perhaps especially the pastoral epistles, in their entirety in one setting as one would read a letter?   I have to go with Paul's own words and definitions and points he was making.

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #466 on: February 07, 2011, 07:16:49 PM »

Offline Scooby

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #467 on: February 08, 2011, 09:20:20 PM »
Zoonance, greetings in Christ from very much colder Texas where the snow is getting closer,

Bible Study by its nature ought to begin with a verse and then working outward from there--seeking first what the author states in other places and then what other authors have to say.  It is enlightning and helpful. Actually, I often start with just a word and do this--but that is just me.

Using your approach folks somehow seem to miss to whom eph 5:19 is written to..Ever notice that?

On the other hand, there is to be said something for taking the whole forest at one setting.

Scooby ::preachit::





Offline Scooby

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #468 on: February 09, 2011, 11:33:11 AM »

Greetings in Christ from very chilly but sunny Texas,
Continuing on--

Neither Paul Nor Any Other New Testament Apostle Taught
That Old Testament Scripture Was "Profitable" As New Testament "Doctrine"

When certain Jewish "Christians" in Acts 15 tried to "bind" Old Testament "circumcision" and "keeping of the law of Moses" on the Gentile "Christians" of the 1st century, the apostles quickly commanded them to cease teaching such an erroneous doctrine. This apostolic command is binding on the New Testament "church" today.

"5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they...23And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: 24Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment" (Acts 15:5-11, 23-24).

The apostles declared that any attempt to "bind" the Old Testament "law of Moses" taught by Christ in MMLJBC on New Testament "Christians" in the 1st century would "subvert" their souls.

 The same is true in this 21st century, any attempt by "gospel preachers" or elders among "churches of Christ" to "bind" the "law of Moses" taught by Christ in MMLJBC on New Testament "Christians" today -- will sabotage, wreck and "subvert" the souls of these "brethren."


Why is the Old Testament "law of Moses" -- including the "ten commandments" not valid today? Why is the Old Testament "Mosaical" covenant not "in force" today? Because when Christ died on the cross, he "ended," "abolished," "nailed" the law to his cross and forever "took away" the old covenant between God and Israel.

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Rom. 10:4) .

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:...12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ" (2 Cor. 6-7, 12-14).

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" (Col. 2:14).
"9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first (covenant), that he may establish the second(covenant). 10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Heb. 10:9-10). Scooby added (covenant) here.

To grasp when the new Covenant actually began--when was the will probated?

Scooby ::preachit::




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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #468 on: February 09, 2011, 11:33:11 AM »

Offline Scooby

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #469 on: February 16, 2011, 07:03:09 PM »
Greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

What we need to grasp here isthe following:  Old Testament "Principles" Are Not New Testament "Doctrine"  But once again we need to understand--folks don't understand the difference between the two.

There is the denominational "theory" today that promotes the doctrinal error that somehow certain selective Old Testament "principles" are New Testament "doctrine." Nothing could be further from the New Testament "truth" of Jesus Christ! Also there seem to be some of us who also tend to think along those lines.

Many will teach that "all" of the Old Testament "Ten Commandments" --except one, the fourth commandment to observe the sabbath are brought over into the New Testament and can serve as "guidons" for New Covenant "Christians."

Not so, for as this study proves the New Testament of Jesus Christ "forbids" new covenant children of God in the New Testament "church" from using any Old Testament teaching as New Testament "doctrine."

Many will take passages from the Old Testament law of Moses such as Psalms 23 and teach thatNew Testament "Christians" can certainly use this verse for comfort and help. Not so, for Jesus Christ is not even mentioned or referred to in Psalms 23.

The "Lord" in this passage refers to Jehovah God, the Father of Old Testament Israel. Psalms 23 related to Old Testament Israel only; it did not refer to New Testament "Christians." Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was not revealed to or known in Old Testament Israel at the time of Psalms 23. 

Jesus Christ was still 1000 years in the future at the time of Psalms 23.

The same is true with the "principles" of "the sermon on the mount" in Matthew, chapters 5 through 7. This Old Testament teaching of the law of Moses by Christ, the old covenant Messiah sent to "only" Old Testament Israel was not New Testament "doctrine" in the 1st century , and it is not New Testament "doctrine" in this 21st century.

Christ's teaching in "the sermon on the mount" was addressed only to Old Testament Israel, those old covenant children of God that could call Jehovah "Father" (Matt. 5:16); those who were under the old covenant  jurisdiction of "the law and the prophets" (Matt. 7:12). No, according to the New Testament, Old Testament "principles" of the law of Moses have never been New Testament "doctrine."

All New Testament "Doctrine" Is "Revealed" And "Found" In The New Testament Of Jesus Christ In Acts 2 Through Revelation 22.

While there are hundreds of other New Testament passages that describe in great detail the "end" of the Old Testament law of Moses at the cross of Christ, the above should be sufficient to convince any honest Bible student that the old covenant "law" is no longer "in force" or "applicable" to anyone today in this new covenant "age."

Therefore, it is clear from the teaching of the New Testament that "All Scripture..." of the Old Testament is not "profitable for New Testament "doctrine."  Once we preceive this--We can be better bible students.

Scooby-- ::priest:: of the most high God





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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #469 on: February 16, 2011, 07:03:09 PM »



Offline zoonance

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #470 on: February 16, 2011, 07:44:12 PM »
Zoonance, greetings in Christ from very much colder Texas where the snow is getting closer,

Bible Study by its nature ought to begin with a verse and then working outward from there--seeking first what the author states in other places and then what other authors have to say.  It is enlightning and helpful. Actually, I often start with just a word and do this--but that is just me.

Using your approach folks somehow seem to miss to whom eph 5:19 is written to..Ever notice that?

On the other hand, there is to be said something for taking the whole forest at one setting.

Scooby ::preachit::







You mean it was written to the church of Efesus?  How in the world would anybody miss that?  ::pondering:: ::whistle::

Offline Scooby

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #471 on: February 16, 2011, 08:19:52 PM »
Zoonance, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

you said--You mean it was written to the church of Efesus?  How in the world would anybody miss that?

it must be that we are being  ::mobbed:: by some new and wierd translation.

Scooby

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #472 on: February 19, 2011, 05:30:23 PM »
Greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

New Testament "Doctrine" Is "Revealed" And "Found" Only In New Testament "Scripture"

For those within the churches of Christ--I looked at many many plans of salvation that are taught and If you took out the one to two references to scriptures prior to the cross--The plan in all cases remains intact.  In other words most of us are using  scriptures found in the new covenant when we teach salvation--and we probably do not even think about it.

Just as Old Testament "doctrine" for the Patriarchal and Mosaical ages is found only in Old Testament "scripture" in Genesis 1 through John 19, New Testament "doctrine" is revealed and found only in New Testament "scripture" in Acts 2 through Revelation 22. New Testament "doctrine" is not "revealed" or "found" in Old Testament "scripture."

All New Testament "doctrine" is "revealed" by Christ and the Holy Spirit to the apostles as "prophesied" in John 16:13and found in the New Testament "scriptures" of the "the apostles' doctrine" of Acts 2 through Revelation 22.

"13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come" (John 16:13).

"42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers" (Acts 2:42).
   


All New Testament "doctrine" is "revealed" and "found" in the new covenant revealed by the Holy Spirit and given to the apostles, beginning in Acts 2 --after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ .
"16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth" (Heb. 9:16-17).



All New Testament "doctrine" is "revealed" and "found" in the "better covenant" of Jesus Christ revealed in Acts 2 through Revelation 22.
 
"6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises" (Heb. 8:6).

"24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel" (Heb. 12:24).


All New Testament "doctrine" is "revealed" and "found" in the "eye-witness testimony" of "the apostles doctrine" revealed in Acts 2 through Revelation 22.

"33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all." (Acts 4:33).

"1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. 2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. 4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor. 2:1-5).

"10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day" (2 Thess. 2:10).

"1The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed" (1 Pet. 5:1).
   


These scriptures we have always had..but learning to see them is not so easy.

Scooby ::reading::

Offline davidmac

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #473 on: February 19, 2011, 05:54:21 PM »
Quote
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was not revealed to or known in Old Testament Israel at the time of Psalms 23.

Jesus Christ was still 1000 years in the future at the time of Psalms 23.
This reflects a very poor Christology and borders on heresy IMHO. Jesus Christ is eternally God the Son and is revealed in the Old Testament in many places- Psalm 2, Psalm 22, Isaiah 7:14,Isaiah9:6, Isaiah 52:13-53:12, Daniel 9:24-27,Zechariah 13:6-7 to list a very few for starters.

Peter preached- "To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.

Offline Scooby

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #474 on: February 19, 2011, 09:11:52 PM »
Greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

I went back and re read what I stated about the 23 psalm--I tried to word it accurately and I think I have

Scooby

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #475 on: February 19, 2011, 09:31:28 PM »
Greetings in aChrist from sunny Texas,

you stated--There is so much to unravel in your misinterpretations of the nature of God's covenants, law, grace, salvation, Christ, marriage, divorce, etc...that I know that you would not be interested in listening to me try.The graceless false doctrine believed by many in our faith heritage does not need to be countered with a twisting of some NT doctrine to ignore the rest of God's revelation.
  
Two or three things

[1] I have via scripture clearly defined the nature of covenants and who is governed by which
[2] Those who teach the traditional view cannot abide covenants..but then they are inaccurate in their application of marriage, divorce and remarriage--
[3] In fact, when MDR is questioned--all the ears close up--believing that the traditional view is correct.  It is an erronious doctrine which began in 598-604-5 in the Roman Catholic Church AND-it had absolutely and totally nothing to do with marriage, divorce and remarriage.

In order to grasp covenants--about ten years give or take a little to work out the problems. Most folks here have not been exposed to covenant teaching and did not know that it existed..But it does and it has.

I have some folks who are getting it after a year or so of a lot of study.   And, it would be a mistake to believe that I am the only one teaching on this--Or that I am the first one.  Karl Ketcherside--has a real grasp of covenants that most folks did not catch and they should because he has a good grasp.   In fact, his definition of the Mosaic covenant--while takes a bit of thinking--I am beginning to believe to be accurate which most folks today would reject outright.

I actually am beginning to think I understand somewhat the arrorance of the Jewish leadership for it is somewhat similar to many on MDR.

Let me give you some food for thought--Something you can do if you are very honest with yourself.

Take your time and explain to yourself what the word "new" means in "New Covenant"  God is much more forgiving than man is with MDR.

Example--a man and a woman have according to our laws been legally married and divorced twice. Their marriage makes their third for each of them.  None of the divorces was for adultery.

Now, these two people have the gospel preached to them and they obey it--Do you understand what the word "new" means in this situation for these two folks??  Personally from prior discussions I think you do..

For you it is just a matter of understanding when  in scripture the first covenant ended.  

Scooby ::priest:: of the most high God







Offline davidmac

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #476 on: February 19, 2011, 09:31:58 PM »
Quote
The "Lord" in this passage refers to Jehovah God, the Father of Old Testament Israel. Psalms 23 related to Old Testament Israel only; it did not refer to New Testament "Christians." Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was not revealed to or known in Old Testament Israel at the time of Psalms 23.

Jesus Christ was still 1000 years in the future at the time of Psalms 23.
What does the bible really say?
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Psalm 110:1  A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
110:2  The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
 110:3  Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
 110:4  The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
 110:5  The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
 110:6  He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
 110:7  He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
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Psalm 2:1  Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2:2  The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
 2:3  Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
 2:4  He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
 2:5  Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
 2:6  Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
 2:8  Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
 2:9  Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
 2:10  Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
 2:11  Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
 2:12  Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Offline davidmac

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #477 on: February 19, 2011, 09:37:21 PM »
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I actually am beginning to think I understand somewhat the arrorance of the Jewish leadership for it is somewhat similar to yours on MDR.
My oh my! I never have even given you my views on MDR- only a link to what John McArthur taught ::frown::

Offline Scooby

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #478 on: February 19, 2011, 09:54:29 PM »
David, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

Here is how I have more than a clue--I simply read your responses--why don't you go back and do that and see If you have not said a lot about it. One quick clue--you do not believe that remarriage is the unforgivable sin..and there is more.

Have a great Lord's Day tomorrow
Scooby ::preachit::

Offline davidmac

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Re: Why study the scriptures by covenants?
« Reply #479 on: February 19, 2011, 10:11:50 PM »
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Here is how I have more than a clue--I simply read your responses--why don't you go back and do that and see If you have not said a lot about it. One quick clue--you do not believe that remarriage is the unforgivable sin..and there is more.
This is true brother-I certainly do not believe that remarriage is the unforgivable sin.However I have not delineated my views on MDR here-but I have stated that we can not dispensationalize away the words of our Lord on this topic. Covenant distinctions are important but we need to realize that there is a unity of scriptures that must be recognized-your approach to this topic I believe is fundamentally misguided- though I would be the first to admit that the strange legalistic perversions that upset you from brethren who are telling couples that they have to return to former spouses before being baptised and other such foolishness must be countered with sound teaching.