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Offline DaveW

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Windows 8 questions
« on: Wed Nov 28, 2012 - 12:33:48 »
Is it really as bad as it looks?
Can it do any real work? (intensive industrial programs)

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Windows 8 questions
« on: Wed Nov 28, 2012 - 12:33:48 »

Offline Alan

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #1 on: Sat Dec 01, 2012 - 11:06:35 »
I don't quite understand all the negative response concerning 8. I received a free copy from MS Tech somewhere around 8 months back and I've been dual booting (installed on an SSD) ever since. For those that are not comfortable with the Metro start screen, there is a fix to return it to the classic start orb.

Windows 8 is very fast, IMO faster than 7 and decimates Vista in terms of speed and memory bandwidth.

8 has removed a few of the features included with previous MS versions, (WMC, for one) but that has been progressive over the last few versions and from customer feedback, many people opted to use open source or freeware apps in place of the bundled Windows apps.

I might add that I haven't had a single issue with 8 other than a corrupt driver for my 3870 X 2 GPU which resulted in an error, but to my surprise the BSOD has been removed from the OS  ::smile::

If you already possess a PC with 7 as the residing OS, I don't personally feel an urgent need to upgrade to 8 since there is little to be gained from the upgrade, but if you're shopping for a new PC don't be discouraged by 8, it's stable and works well.

Finally, the concept of 8 and the metro start screen was to interact with ALL Windows devices; Windows phone and the upcoming tablet also incorporate the Metro screen. Windows 8 makes for a perfect touch screen OS, but as I stated previously if you don't possess a touch screen you may want to revert back to the classic start orb style start screen.



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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #1 on: Sat Dec 01, 2012 - 11:06:35 »

Offline DaveW

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #2 on: Tue Dec 04, 2012 - 07:12:07 »
But does not having 2 UIs add to the bulk and overhead?  Can you permanantly remove the UI you don't want?

I can see that interface for phones and even tablets but not for laptops and ESPECIALLY not for desktop machines.

At least with linux you can dump out the UI you don't use.

Offline fcadcock

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #3 on: Sat Dec 29, 2012 - 20:44:47 »
I think Microsoft has shot themselves in the foot here.  Just as Ubuntu messed up when they changed to Unity, the Metro UI will kill Windows 8's adoption because nobody will understand how to use it.  And from what I hear, it breaks lots of corporate applications, leaving the largest users of it's operating system (businesses) out in the cold.

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #3 on: Sat Dec 29, 2012 - 20:44:47 »

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #4 on: Sat Dec 29, 2012 - 21:16:39 »
Windows 8 is another ME or Vista.

For the vast majority of users, any MATE or KDE desktop linux distro with Libre Office and Firefox would capture the majority of their uses.

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #4 on: Sat Dec 29, 2012 - 21:16:39 »



Offline Alan

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #5 on: Sun Dec 30, 2012 - 19:21:54 »
Windows 8 is another ME or Vista.
Disagree, 8 works very well for it's intended purposes. The main complaint is the UI or start screen, but that can be changed to the classic start screen (as in 7) with ease. Comparing 8 with Vista and ME is pure ignorance, it's extremely fast and stable.


For the vast majority of users, any MATE or KDE desktop linux distro with Libre Office and Firefox would capture the majority of their uses.

Great idea, but after 15 years of being in this business I've encountered maybe 1% of computer users that were actually competent enough to install an OS and maintain it. Sure there are a few that will run "live" distros and a few more that will attempt to install to a partition, but when it comes to terminal use, they're lost.

I could probably teach my Mom to use Ubuntu, but the bigger question is "why"? Her off the shelf laptop runs fast and stable with her copy of Windows, so I see no need to introduce a new learning curve. If it ain't broke don't fix it?

OTOH, those 10 year old PC's with Athlon64's and P4's run as fast as today's i7 quad core/8GB memory machines with a nicely
setup Slackware distro and KDE desktop.  ::cool::

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jan 14, 2013 - 20:20:53 »
In the Enterprise market, many large companies have still not fully made the transition to Windows 7.  Windows 8 will be a Vista or ME.

Offline notreligus

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #7 on: Sun Jan 20, 2013 - 19:36:54 »
A good friend of mine is an authorized Microsoft Beta tester.  He got to try Windows 8 before it was released.  He told me it just seems to be good for making a PC seem like an iPad.  He did not care for it.  With users becoming more interested in mobile applications than traditional applications this seems to be the trend.  I don't care about computers being "cute" so much as I want them to function so I can run programs and do my job. 

Offline notreligus

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #8 on: Sun Jan 20, 2013 - 19:43:59 »
In the Enterprise market, many large companies have still not fully made the transition to Windows 7.  Windows 8 will be a Vista or ME.

I think you're right.  I noticed a major hospital where I live still using XP.  It is a daunting task for an IT manager to just switch to a new OS just because it's new and supposed to be the greatest.  Hospitals and other end-users are most concerned about how well it functions and meets their needs.  Like the adage, "if it ain't broke don't fix it."   Microsoft wants to obsolete their products so you have to go out and buy a new OS and eventually need a new Office suite because it won't be supported or be fully compatible with the OS. 

I'm thinking about taking one of my PC's and converting to Linux.  One is Raid 5.  Now if I knew how to do that I might try it. 

Offline Alan

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #9 on: Sun Jan 20, 2013 - 22:07:28 »
The school board that I work for has approximately 10,000 computers running XP. Support for XP has been extended until April, 8, 2014 but that doesn't mean the product will not function correctly after that date, it simply means tech support is no longer available for the product, and who knows, maybe we'll see another extension prior to that deadline.

I'm sure MS would love to see many of these corporations updating to a more modern OS, but the software that many of these businesses use are not supported by newer OS's which is a struggle for many people. The G/F works for a doctor and I've had to downgrade many of his computers to XP to be compatible with the software that he relies on.

Another problem with updating is the cost factor. In the case of our school board, 10,000 volume license fees would be rather pricy. We'll probably see new computers before we see an OS upgrade.


I'm thinking about taking one of my PC's and converting to Linux.  One is Raid 5.  Now if I knew how to do that I might try it. 

For a software RAID solution you can have a look at Linux mdadm.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #10 on: Tue Jan 22, 2013 - 07:48:59 »
A good friend of mine is an authorized Microsoft Beta tester.  He got to try Windows 8 before it was released. 
I have a son in law that beta tested Win8.  He gave me a flashdrive with one version of the prerelease OS he was testing.  Never booted it up.

Quote
He told me it just seems to be good for making a PC seem like an iPad. 
or a smart phone.  Yeah I can see that.

Quote
With users becoming more interested in mobile applications than traditional applications this seems to be the trend.
 

That depends on who you think your "users" are.  Is it the guy in the street that really has no interest in doing any real work or is it the business that is running heavy graphic and intense number crunching programs?

Are they manipulating databases with tens of thousands of entries? 
Running machine tool paths for CNC mills on complex 3D parts?
Projecting and editing Geo Databases? (electronic mapping)
Recording and editing HD video and high end audio?

To me, if you cannot do these things, forget it. Those should be the "users" you are designing for.

Offline Nevertheless

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #11 on: Tue Jan 22, 2013 - 12:54:06 »
The school board that I work for has approximately 10,000 computers running XP. Support for XP has been extended until April, 8, 2014 but that doesn't mean the product will not function correctly after that date, it simply means tech support is no longer available for the product, and who knows, maybe we'll see another extension prior to that deadline.

I'm sure MS would love to see many of these corporations updating to a more modern OS, but the software that many of these businesses use are not supported by newer OS's which is a struggle for many people. The G/F works for a doctor and I've had to downgrade many of his computers to XP to be compatible with the software that he relies on.

Another problem with updating is the cost factor. In the case of our school board, 10,000 volume license fees would be rather pricy. We'll probably see new computers before we see an OS upgrade.


Well, it's nice to know that my little business isn't alone in this. We have 6 computers running XP. My main concern about buying new hardware is being forced to change OS. The accounting software we use is QuickBooks 99, which won't run on anything newer than XP.

I'm fighting tooth and nail to avoid updating our accounting software for a couple of reasons. First, Hubby is techno-challenged. He doesn't learn new programs easily, basically memorizing the steps required for each task, so changing the procedure, or even the look is a major event. (He struggles with the TV remote, too.)

More importantly, I am by nature very frugal. I see no reason to buy something new when what I have is working fine. I've never been one to jump on the latest whiz-bang gadget bandwagon, especially when it can have huge effects on my business. I'm in no hurry to spend money, time and mental energy on something, taking the chance that it won't work for me, but be unable to go back to what was working.

Offline Alan

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #12 on: Tue Jan 22, 2013 - 22:32:26 »

That depends on who you think your "users" are.  Is it the guy in the street that really has no interest in doing any real work or is it the business that is running heavy graphic and intense number crunching programs?

Are they manipulating databases with tens of thousands of entries? 
Running machine tool paths for CNC mills on complex 3D parts?
Projecting and editing Geo Databases? (electronic mapping)
Recording and editing HD video and high end audio?

To me, if you cannot do these things, forget it. Those should be the "users" you are designing for.
Yep, the average user can get away with minimal hardware to browse the web, listen to a few tunes, sort through some photos, watch the odd video, and create a few word docs.

Some of those applications require a graphic intense UI which Windows 7 or 8 can handle quite easily, whereas the NT platforms may result in degradation of video quality.

The school board that I work for has approximately 10,000 computers running XP. Support for XP has been extended until April, 8, 2014 but that doesn't mean the product will not function correctly after that date, it simply means tech support is no longer available for the product, and who knows, maybe we'll see another extension prior to that deadline.

I'm sure MS would love to see many of these corporations updating to a more modern OS, but the software that many of these businesses use are not supported by newer OS's which is a struggle for many people. The G/F works for a doctor and I've had to downgrade many of his computers to XP to be compatible with the software that he relies on.

Another problem with updating is the cost factor. In the case of our school board, 10,000 volume license fees would be rather pricy. We'll probably see new computers before we see an OS upgrade.


Well, it's nice to know that my little business isn't alone in this. We have 6 computers running XP. My main concern about buying new hardware is being forced to change OS. The accounting software we use is QuickBooks 99, which won't run on anything newer than XP.

I'm fighting tooth and nail to avoid updating our accounting software for a couple of reasons. First, Hubby is techno-challenged. He doesn't learn new programs easily, basically memorizing the steps required for each task, so changing the procedure, or even the look is a major event. (He struggles with the TV remote, too.)

More importantly, I am by nature very frugal. I see no reason to buy something new when what I have is working fine. I've never been one to jump on the latest whiz-bang gadget bandwagon, especially when it can have huge effects on my business. I'm in no hurry to spend money, time and mental energy on something, taking the chance that it won't work for me, but be unable to go back to what was working.

Well, you don't have to feel frugal, it's good business to get the most out of your equipment and if XP is working fine for you then stick with it as long as possible. By that time you'll be able to purchase half a dozen Win 7 computers with a bit older older hardware for cheap, and they'll probably get you through another decade  ::smile::

Offline mickmoore

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #13 on: Tue Jan 21, 2014 - 06:02:38 »
The latest trends of touch and fast access to any of the applications has a great demand. It has got a perfect use of applications following all the technologies till date.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #14 on: Wed Jan 22, 2014 - 08:26:31 »
Windows 8 is another ME or Vista.
Disagree, 8 works very well for it's intended purposes. The main complaint is the UI or start screen, but that can be changed to the classic start screen (as in 7) with ease. Comparing 8 with Vista and ME is pure ignorance, it's extremely fast and stable.

Well, from what I have heard from my sons in law; Win 8 had some serious problems, most of which are fixed in 8.1.

IMO it still looks like a toy.  And the "classic" screen of Win 7 is not all that classic. So unless it can go back farther that XP, (and win 7 does not even do XP all that well) it is not a truly classic screen.

Quote
For the vast majority of users, any MATE or KDE desktop linux distro with Libre Office and Firefox would capture the majority of their uses.

True.  Or Gnome 2.   

Gnome 3 and "unity" both go the same way W8 went - looking like a Fisher Price interface ....

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Windows 8 questions
« Reply #15 on: Wed Jan 22, 2014 - 12:23:15 »