Author Topic: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB  (Read 2659 times)

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Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« on: Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 11:41:46 »
Larry.... So I can pin you down on your beliefs let me ask you a few questions before we start.

1. You believe the tribulation starts with agreement of Dan 9:27
2. That would make the breaking mid trib
3. So you believe you'll be gone before the agreements signed?

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Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« on: Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 11:41:46 »

larry2

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #1 on: Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 12:00:35 »

Larry.... So I can pin you down on your beliefs let me ask you a few questions before we start.

1. You believe the tribulation starts with agreement of Dan 9:27
2. That would make the breaking mid trib
3. So you believe you'll be gone before the agreements signed?


1.  Yes

2. No idea what kind of question you're asking.

3.  Yes

Hey, this is easier than I thought.  ::smile::

Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #2 on: Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 15:34:39 »
Ok so let's see if the bible teaches a pre tribulation rapture....


One more thing, when Jesus opens the first seal which brings the rider on the white horse and he is the Antichrist....  Dan 9:27 the peace deal, is this why we see the rider at the first seal because the first seal is the start of that peace deal...... Not so easy now is it.... Lol

do you get what I'm asking? When the agreements signed we say "there's the Ac"
can we also say at That same time, here's the rider also..... Both appearances are same event...

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #3 on: Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 18:20:43 »
Larry says:

1.  Yes there is: Rev.4:4 = dead in Christ, 4:6 = alive at Jesus' coming in the air, and 14:1 = the 144,000 caught up in 12:5.
2.  If you're not saved, you're going through the tribulation then; not me.

3.  Is the thief in paradise? Where is paradise? 2 Corinthians 12:4  How that he was caught up into paradise . . Believer's spirits are present with the Lord; their bodies remain in the grave.


KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

Rev 4:4 you say that this is the dead in Christ - why simply because they wear white and have crowns? 

Rev 4:6 you say that these are those who are alive at Christ coming (2thess gathering together)


1. Look at verse 4:6 - now look at verse 15:2 - see the difference - 15:2 is those with victory over the mark - no where does 4:6 mention any believers! I don't even know what it is you see there that says believers are there...... Neither one and the 24 elders are already in heaven in johns vision... Again 4:4-4:6 happened during johns vision..... It's the discription of how heaven looked when he arrived for the vision..... 




Next 12:5 is NOT the 144,000 being caught of there is only ONE who rules with a rod of iron and the bibles clear that Jesus Christ!

14:1 how can this be the 144,000 caught up when their on mt Sion.?


So you are going on rev 4:4-6 as being proof?


Now let me give you a question Larry

in 2 thess 1:7 Paul tells all believers (dead and alive) to wait with them in Rest. Since all believers must enter Gods rest this is to all believers... Since Paul says to rest till Christ comes, this is for the dead also.....

1:10 Paul says Jesus is glorified during the rapture when the elect because they believed what Paul said....rise to meet the lord in the air....

2:1 Paul says now the matter of our gathering together with Christ
2:2 don't believe I came and you didn't know of it - no secret rapture
2:3 for That day (what day have we been talking about?) the rapture...
So the rapture won't happen until the falling away comes first and then the man of sin sits in temple as god.


So if you believe Jesus comes Before the mid tribulation agreement breaking AC sits in the temple then you've been decieved.....


Pauls waiting for the tribulation rapture and so are you....

Paul does not mention but one rapture and it's after midtrib.....


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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #4 on: Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 18:28:44 »
Larrys said:
3.  Is the thief in paradise? Where is paradise? 2 Corinthians 12:4  How that he was caught up into paradise . . Believer's spirits are present with the Lord; their bodies remain in the grave.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

the thief is in His grave asleep...

Did Jesus say:

Luke 23:43. Verly I say unto thee today shalt thou be with me in paradise

or did he say:

verly I say unto you today, shalt thou be with me in paradise


1. How could he be with Jesus in paradise that day when jesus himself wasn't in paradise that day?
2. He only made the promise on that day about whenhe came into his kingdom and that wasn't the day they died....

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #4 on: Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 18:28:44 »



Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #5 on: Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 18:32:32 »
Larry said:

Believer's spirits are present with the Lord; their bodies remain in the grave.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

pauls waiting till Christ comes
Daniel says we sleep until Christ comes - 12:1-2
Paul says David hasn't rose yet and his grave is still amonst them today (pauls time)


The dead are NOT in heaven - old wives fable

larry2

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #6 on: Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 20:01:31 »
Let's start with the following questions and stay on them until you're satisfied before moving to your other questions.

Ok so let's see if the bible teaches a pre tribulation rapture....

One more thing, when Jesus opens the first seal which brings the rider on the white horse and he is the Antichrist....  Dan 9:27 the peace deal, is this why we see the rider at the first seal because the first seal is the start of that peace deal...... Not so easy now is it.... Lol

do you get what I'm asking? When the agreements signed we say "there's the Ac"
can we also say at That same time, here's the rider also..... Both appearances are same event...


Daniel 9:27  "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Who is the one making the covenant, and is it during the tribulation or not since it mentions a week?

Do you realize that the following scripture is an index of things to come, and not restricted to one part of what the antichrist will be doing? He goes forth to conquer; how does he do that?

Revelation 6:1  And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

Revelation 6:2  And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Lively Stone

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #7 on: Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 22:11:02 »
Larry said:

Believer's spirits are present with the Lord; their bodies remain in the grave.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

pauls waiting till Christ comes
Daniel says we sleep until Christ comes - 12:1-2
Paul says David hasn't rose yet and his grave is still amonst them today (pauls time)


The dead are NOT in heaven - old wives fable

The problem with your understanding is that you are taking the terminology used by ancient man for death , which is 'sleeping' and applying it to the New Testament, post-cross teaching about what happens at death to the believer.

Jesus Christ in His death and resurrection, opened the gate to heaven for all believers, so that when they die, their bodies, though they seem to sleep, lies in wait for their resurrection to incorruptible new bodies. You forget that the spirit and soul of man departs those bodies and goes to God. Before Christ, all the spirit of the dead would wait in Hades---the wicked separated from the righteous. When Jesus died, He went there to retrieve and lead out those who were considered righteous, looking and hoping for their Messiah! He led them out to heaven, because He alone held the key. Ever since, when a believer dies, his spirit and soul go directly to Him. At the Rapture, they will be reunited with their new bodies.

King David, the man after God's own heart is walking the streets of gold with His Saviour right now.

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #8 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 09:28:24 »
Living stone said:

Jesus Christ in His death and resurrection, opened the gate to heaven for all believers, so that when they die, their bodies, though they seem to sleep, lies in wait for their resurrection to incorruptible new bodies


KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

and the scripture for this claim is?

1. 2thess Paul tells All believers to wait with them until Christ is revealed from heaven
2. Matt 26:64 says that the next time Jesus is seen is when he's at the right hand of the Father and coming in the clouds of heaven...
3. Rev 6:14:17 is that fullfilment!


Paul tells all believers to WAIT with Them.... Till Christ comes during the gathering together during the tribulation....

Daniel 12-1:2 tells us that some AWAKE to everlasting life and some to shame - if believers are walking the streets of gold then they are already awake to Everlasting life but, Daniel says this isn't true... 11:45 is the Antichrist awaiting china and Russia arival for Armageddon.... And since if the days were not shorterned for the elects sake no flesh would be saved, we have 12:1-2 show the gathering together (rapture) For the elects sake.. So Daniel is using the awake from sleep as an endtime term..... They Sleep and awaken to everlasting life -


The only way for yours to work is if they die go to heaven and then come back get into body and wake up to everlasting life which means they didn't already have it before....


When Jesus is on the cross he tells the thief:
Luke 23:43

verily I say to you, today shalt thou be with me in paradise - your take
verily I say to you today, shalt thou be with me in paradise - my take

so who's right?  Well the bible is....

Jesus said the 2nd one - notice the difference?

Jesus could NOT of ment that as soon as you die you'll be with me in paradise, since jesus himself wasn't there for more than forty days later.... He only let the man know on the spot that when the man died he had Jesus promise that when Jesus Came into His kingdom... That didn't happen the day the man died and he didn't go to heaven either!

One more thing:  the streets of Gold are in the new heaven and new earth period After the 1000 year reign.... John tells us he saw a new heaven and a new earth for the OLD ONE (that is Now) passed away and there was no oceans... This hasn't happened yet.....

Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #9 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 10:04:39 »
1thess
5:9 we are not appointed to wrath

1. 144,000 sealed
2. Rapture
3. Wrath

we see in Rev 6:14-17 God opening the heavens so that All eyes will see (even those who pierced Him - rev 1:7)

we see God hold back angels until the 144,000 are sealed - then for the FIRST time a Great mulitude is in Heaven - AFTER - where's all the dead walking the streets before this? Must be millions but John NEVER mentions them.... Till now.....

(notice matt 24:29 mark 13:24-25 Luke 21:25 - these are the sixth seal (rev 6:12-13)
notice the next verse is the rapture - notice in Rev that the great multitude shows up just After the 6th seal....

Notice in mark 13:20 shorterns the days for elect and a few verses later we have Jesus come and shortern those days - now notice Daniel while the Antichrist Waits for china and Russia to start armageddon we have the rapture 12:1-2.....


So Now back to the first verse 1 thess 5:9

we are not appointed to wrath - we see the wrath happens just after sealing and rapture - so God removes us before the wrath..... Because we obtained salvation.

10. Whether we wake (alive at His coming) or sleep... We should live together (both those who live and those who have died) together! And Daniel says we awaken at same time

rev 1:7 says all eyes see Him and Paul says all should wait with Paul who's waiting for Christ to rapture us...... Pauls Waiting to see Christ!


Acts 2:24 God raised Christ from dead
27 - David knows that his soul won't be left (forever) in Hell
29 - Were told that David is still Dead and buried to this day
34 - for David has NOT ascended to Heavens
35 - and David will remain with all the others until the Father makes jesus's enemy's his footstool
(this happens at Jesus 1000 yr reign) these are those who Jesus rules with a rod of Iron.


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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #10 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 10:10:39 »
What I mean is that when the Antichrist signs the agreement..
The rider on the white horse is born (so to speak)

The agreement brings on the other riders who are a result of the newly crowned AC signing the agreement...


larry2

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #11 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 10:18:29 »

When Jesus is on the cross he tells the thief:
Luke 23:43

verily I say to you, today shalt thou be with me in paradise - your take
verily I say to you today, shalt thou be with me in paradise - my take

so who's right?  Well the bible is....


Do you know where Jesus was, where He went, and where He is. The following bibles all have our take. Where were the righteous before Jesus died, and where did Jesus go when He died. Where was paradise, and where is paradise?

ASV
Douay
ESV
KJV
BBE
Darby
NKJV
NIV
Webster
Young's

Lively Stone

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #12 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 11:01:48 »
Living stone said:

Jesus Christ in His death and resurrection, opened the gate to heaven for all believers, so that when they die, their bodies, though they seem to sleep, lies in wait for their resurrection to incorruptible new bodies


KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

and the scripture for this claim is?

1. 2thess Paul tells All believers to wait with them until Christ is revealed from heaven
2. Matt 26:64 says that the next time Jesus is seen is when he's at the right hand of the Father and coming in the clouds of heaven...
3. Rev 6:14:17 is that fullfilment!


Paul tells all believers to WAIT with Them.... Till Christ comes during the gathering together during the tribulation....

Well, should I die before the Lord takes me as part of His Bride, I will be with the saints in heaven, waiting for that resurrection!

Quote
Daniel 12-1:2 tells us that some AWAKE to everlasting life and some to shame - if believers are walking the streets of gold then they are already awake to Everlasting life but, Daniel says this isn't true... 11:45 is the Antichrist awaiting china and Russia arival for Armageddon.... And since if the days were not shorterned for the elects sake no flesh would be saved, we have 12:1-2 show the gathering together (rapture) For the elects sake.. So Daniel is using the awake from sleep as an endtime term..... They Sleep and awaken to everlasting life -

Do you not realize that there is a sheep and goats judgment that takes place when Jesus comes?

Quote
The only way for yours to work is if they die go to heaven and then come back get into body and wake up to everlasting life which means they didn't already have it before....

More study for you!

Quote
When Jesus is on the cross he tells the thief:
Luke 23:43

verily I say to you, today shalt thou be with me in paradise - your take
verily I say to you today, shalt thou be with me in paradise - my take

More obfuscation.


Quote
Jesus said the 2nd one - notice the difference?

Yeah---you added some punctuation which changes what Jesus said into what you wish He had said. Deadly.

Quote
Jesus could NOT of ment that as soon as you die you'll be with me in paradise, since jesus himself wasn't there for more than forty days later.... He only let the man know on the spot that when the man died he had Jesus promise that when Jesus Came into His kingdom... That didn't happen the day the man died and he didn't go to heaven either!

Nonsense. Jesus was there before the thief! You don't understand what Paradise was. It wasn't heaven.

Quote
One more thing:  the streets of Gold are in the new heaven and new earth period After the 1000 year reign.... John tells us he saw a new heaven and a new earth for the OLD ONE (that is Now) passed away and there was no oceans... This hasn't happened yet.....

The streets of gold are already laid in the City of God in heaven now, and will come down to Earth.

Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #13 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 11:17:54 »
Living stone said:

Yeah---you added some punctuation which changes what Jesus said into what you wish He had said. Deadly.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

The fact is I simply put it where it goes LS.... the fact is Jesus couldn't tell the man he'd be with Jesus that day in paradise cause Jesus wasn't in paradise that day... That's a fact!

So I simply put the (,) where it belongs..... The devil changed it to fool you....

But you can't use this verse to say it teaches believers are in heaven....

Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #14 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 11:26:27 »
Living stone said:

The streets of gold are already laid in the City of God in heaven now, and will come down to Earth.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:


If your not going to use scripture to back up your claims then this is a waste of time...


Again Rev 21:1 John sees a NEW HEAVEN and a NEW EARTH a earth without sea's


For the OLD HEAVENS and the OLD EARTH passed Away!

Since the New Earth has NO SEA - that can't be this earth so the new Heavens haven't been made yet either!

Your not going by Gods word but what someone told you.... Just saying were in heaven now doesn't make it true...... Again you out me down in your reply, yet we see it's you who is wrong...

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #15 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 11:37:43 »
Lively stone said:

Nonsense. Jesus was there before the thief! You don't understand what Paradise was. It wasn't heaven.

Larry said:

Do you know where Jesus was, where He went, and where He is. The following bibles all have our take. Where were the righteous before Jesus died, and where did Jesus go when He died. Where was paradise, and where is paradise?


KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

1 Cor Paul is talking about himself who 14 yrs before was blinded and taken to paradise and heard unspeakable words and that He won't Glory in himself (won't brag he not only saw heaven but got his message straight from God the Father whose in Heaven)


12:4 says he was caught up to paradise - God resides in Heaven which is paradise!
12:5 of which I WILL NOT GLORY of myself!

Scripture says I'm right.... Paul was taking to heaven and not some other place...

The word paradise is used for any place like garden park happiness ect...

So again scripture disagrees with your take....

Lively Stone

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #16 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 12:17:29 »
Living stone said:

Yeah---you added some punctuation which changes what Jesus said into what you wish He had said. Deadly.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

The fact is I simply put it where it goes LS.... the fact is Jesus couldn't tell the man he'd be with Jesus that day in paradise cause Jesus wasn't in paradise that day... That's a fact!

So I simply put the (,) where it belongs..... The devil changed it to fool you....

But you can't use this verse to say it teaches believers are in heaven....

Sorry, pal....

Luke 23:43
And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.
« Last Edit: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 12:38:58 by Lively Stone »

Lively Stone

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #17 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 12:24:04 »
Living stone said:

The streets of gold are already laid in the City of God in heaven now, and will come down to Earth.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:


If your not going to use scripture to back up your claims then this is a waste of time...


Again Rev 21:1 John sees a NEW HEAVEN and a NEW EARTH a earth without sea's


For the OLD HEAVENS and the OLD EARTH passed Away!

Since the New Earth has NO SEA - that can't be this earth so the new Heavens haven't been made yet either!

Your not going by Gods word but what someone told you.... Just saying were in heaven now doesn't make it true...... Again you out me down in your reply, yet we see it's you who is wrong...

Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us---heaven. The City is being made ready for us!

John 14:2-3
There is more than enough room in my Father’s home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?  When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am.

Revelation 21:2-3
And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them.

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #18 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 12:52:23 »
2 thess Paul tells all believers to wait with him till Christ is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels.

Since this has NOT happened yet, Paul still waits!


Scripture says your wrong and until you can defeat Paul you have nothing but fabled hopes.

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #19 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 12:56:32 »
2 thess Paul tells all believers to wait with him till Christ is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels.

Since this has NOT happened yet, Paul still waits!


Scripture says your wrong and until you can defeat Paul you have nothing but fabled hopes.

By most accounts Paul stayed in Thessalonica for only about 3 weeks and during that time he founded a Church and taught them the doctrines of salvation and sanctification, the Trinity, the nature of man, the assurance of pardon, and the Day of the Lord. He continued teaching them after he left with his first letter, written from Corinth in 51 AD, in which he introduced the doctrine of the rapture (1 Thes. 4:16-17). Shortly after that they received another letter appearing to be from him, announcing that the Day of the Lord had come. They reacted with fear and confusion and immediately sought clarification.

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus and our being gathered to Him, we ask you brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy report or letter supposed to have come from us saying that the Day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let any one deceive you in any way for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. (2 Thes 2:1-3)

From Paul’s response it’s clear the previous letter had been a forgery, sent by someone pretending to be him and designed to frighten them. It worked. The Greek words for unsettle and alarm literally mean to agitate, incite, and frighten. Something in the letter had contradicted their understanding of his teaching and they were upset. Reading 2 Thes 2:1-3 we see that the forgery must have disputed Paul’s teaching on events leading up to the Day of the Lord. This is the only logical explanation for his 2nd letter to the Thessalonians.

Notice that right from the beginning Paul separated the coming of the Lord from our being gathered to Him. That’s because they’re two different events. We can’t tell their relative timing from this, but we can tell they’re not the same thing. One is when He comes back down to Earth, while from 1 Thes. 4:16-17 we know the other has us going up to meet Him in the air and continuing to Heaven. The 2nd coming will be witnessed by everyone (Matt. 24:30), but the rapture is an instantaneous disappearance (1 Cor. 15:51-52) that happens without warning.

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #20 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 12:57:53 »
Lively stone said:

Nonsense. Jesus was there before the thief! You don't understand what Paradise was. It wasn't heaven.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

so your not one to admit your wrong, you just keep raising the bar



Paul was taking to paradise before God to hear unspeakable things and since God is in Heaven paradise is heaven..... So I do understand and was correct.


I've givin scripture that says your wrong but noticed you haven't defeated it.

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #21 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 13:16:46 »
7 angels said:

1. From Paul’s response it’s clear the previous letter had been a forgery, sent by someone pretending to be him

2. Notice that right from the beginning Paul separated the coming of the Lord from our being gathered to Him. That’s because they’re two different events. We can’t tell their relative timing from this, but we can tell they’re not the same thing. One is when He comes back down to Earth, while from 1 Thes. 4:16-17 we know the other has us going up to meet Him in the air and continuing to Heaven. The 2nd coming will be witnessed by everyone (Matt. 24:30), but the rapture is an instantaneous disappearance (1 Cor. 15:51-52) that happens without warning. 


KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

1. What letter? You assume a letter was sent why?  2:1 tells them to NOT be soon shaken

which means they haven't been shaken yet!

In fact it says not to be troubled by

1. Spirit
2. Word
3. Letter

so it's shows nothing to say a letter came - you heard this through the grape vine and now made it fact......

2. There's no separation here, the Lord has to come to earth Before were gathered to Him

Pauls only talking one event - you have no pre trib rapture

Paul says if you believe the rapture happens before the midtrib revealing of man of sin
then you've been Decieved!


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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #22 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 13:18:05 »
2 thess Paul tells all believers to wait with him till Christ is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels.

Since this has NOT happened yet, Paul still waits!


Scripture says your wrong and until you can defeat Paul you have nothing but fabled hopes.

Are you using 2 Thessalonians 1?

Verses 6-10:
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.


Paul didn't know when Jesus was coming. He is expressing the hope of all who believe---to this very day! When Jesus is finally revealed to the world in His glorious coming, all who look for Him with excitement and see Him coming will rejoice for they will receive their rest!

He will definitely be glorified in His saints, because His saints will be coming with Him!

Zechariah 4:5b
...Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.


Seeing as this is a debate you are conducting with larry2, you need to continue with larry2. I am bowing out.

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #23 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 13:24:01 »
7 angels said:

but the rapture is an instantaneous disappearance (1 Cor. 15:51-52) that happens without warning.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:


for we will not all sleep - shows the dead sleep and wait!

for in a moment in the twinkle of an eye our bodies are changed from corruptable to incorruptable

so where's the disappear part? See again you've listened to preachers use this verse that we disappear yet the verse doesn't say that... The twinkle is only our bodies change that fast.... 

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #24 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 13:31:08 »
Lively stone said:

1. Paul didn't know when Jesus was coming.

2. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

then how is it we read and know Jesus is coming?  Cause Paul knew he wrote that Jesus would come to gather us to himself


I don't get how you think Paul didn't know?

2. Zech you do know that Christ comes once to gather - rapture
then we come back with Him to set up His kingdom after fighting worlds armies...

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #25 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 13:44:35 »
Lively stone says:

He will definitely be glorified in His saints, because His saints will be coming with Him!

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

there is the rapture that happens After the Antichrist breaks agreement.
Then there's Jesus and the returning saints coming to fight the Antichrist (Rev 19:11-21)


In 2thess the Lord Comes from Heaven with his mighty angels - no saints here!
In Rev He comes with His saints...

To BE GLORIFIED by His saints
when we rise up to meet Christ the whole world is watching (rev1:7) and this is when He is glorified....


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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #26 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 13:51:36 »
Lively stone said:

1. Paul didn't know when Jesus was coming.

2. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

then how is it we read and know Jesus is coming?  Cause Paul knew he wrote that Jesus would come to gather us to himself


I don't get how you think Paul didn't know?

He didn't know any more than you do when Jesus will come.

Quote
2. Zech you do know that Christ comes once to gather - rapture
then we come back with Him to set up His kingdom after fighting worlds armies...

That is what I said.

Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #27 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 14:18:39 »
Lively stone said:

He didn't know any more than you do when Jesus will come.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

1. Paul does know that Jesus won't come till after the abomantion that makes desolate... Which happens mid tribulation.
2. And I know more than Paul because I live in the coming Tribulaton time and can see it before my eyes......

So Paul does know that... That Jesus comes during the tribulation.... With his mighty angels to be glorified in His saints..... Without pauls writings we wouldn't know that Christ comes during tribulation... We'd ALL believe the pre trib rapture.....



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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #28 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 15:29:04 »
Lively stone said:

He didn't know any more than you do when Jesus will come.

KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

1. Paul does know that Jesus won't come till after the abomantion that makes desolate... Which happens mid tribulation.

No one knows when Jesus will come. He actually comes to CONCLUDE Tribulation.


Quote
2. And I know more than Paul because I live in the coming Tribulaton time and can see it before my eyes......

No you don't. The Church will not undergo Tribulation which is meant for the unrighteous.

Quote
So Paul does know that... That Jesus comes during the tribulation.... With his mighty angels to be glorified in His saints..... Without pauls writings we wouldn't know that Christ comes during tribulation... We'd ALL believe the pre trib rapture.....

Jesus doesn't come during Tribulation, except at the end of its seven year period.

Offline fenton

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #29 on: Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 15:45:43 »


KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:


2. And I know more than Paul because I live in the coming Tribulaton time and can see it before my eyes......



 ::doh::          ::lookaround::          ::sarcasm::               ::crazy::

::laughingatquote::                    ::laughinghisterically::

Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: Pre tribulation rapture - Larry Vs KNOWLEDGE BOMB
« Reply #30 on: Sun Jun 24, 2012 - 17:11:25 »


KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:


2. And I know more than Paul because I live in the coming Tribulaton time and can see it before my eyes......



 ::doh::          ::lookaround::          ::sarcasm::               ::crazy::

::laughingatquote::                    ::laughinghisterically::


What I have both what Paul knew of the tribulation and what all writers knew and I live in the time of the end and see how these things come together...


You also should know more than Paul on the tribulation but by your remarks I can see your beliefs would never let you put 2 and 2 together....


All believers should know more than Paul about what their gonna face very soon!


 

     
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