Author Topic: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!  (Read 6480 times)

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Lehigh

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The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« on: Wed Mar 28, 2012 - 22:09:47 »
  

 There is no more prophecy to come.  It's over. and fulfilled.  Why can't futurists live by Faith instead of arguing which fictional story of Jesus coming or antichrist, or what bad tribulation they expect to come?

       Why are futurists so negative and insist that they call His coming a "hope" when it really makes their heart sick?

    Is it a denominational thing?   ::juggle::  It's really sad to read I tell ya.  

                        

larry2

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #1 on: Wed Mar 28, 2012 - 22:59:40 »
 

 There is no more prophecy to come.  It's over. and fulfilled.  Why can't futurists live by Faith instead of arguing which fictional story of Jesus coming or antichrist, or what bad tribulation they expect to come?

       Why are futurists so negative and insist that they call His coming a "hope" when it really makes their heart sick?

    Is it a denominational thing?   ::juggle::  It's really sad to read I tell ya.  



 rofl  Hey, perk up. Maybe you're not as sad as you think; it might be hunger.

                 
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Lehigh

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #2 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 10:37:13 »
 

 There is no more prophecy to come.  It's over. and fulfilled.  Why can't futurists live by Faith instead of arguing which fictional story of Jesus coming or antichrist, or what bad tribulation they expect to come?

       Why are futurists so negative and insist that they call His coming a "hope" when it really makes their heart sick?

    Is it a denominational thing?   ::juggle::  It's really sad to read I tell ya.  



 rofl  Hey, perk up. Maybe you're not as sad as you think; it might be hunger.

                 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNVQq75ELU0&NR=1



Is that what happened to the thinker and raggtyme, larry2-  did your wolf eat them?!
                                                                                                           
 

Futurists are still worried about their bad news psychic predictions, needlessly!

larry2

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #3 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 10:48:40 »
I have no idea of predictions you talk of, but I do have a hope in scripture as I believe them, prophesy unfulfilled, and glory to come. Will that affect my salvation? My salvation is not based of my knowledge of prophesy, but my belief on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #4 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 10:55:59 »
How will people identify Jesus when he comes back to save the people waiting for him?

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #4 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 10:55:59 »



Lehigh

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #5 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 11:00:33 »
How will people identify Jesus when he comes back to save the people waiting for him?

   Jesus is here. "Christ in you" the hope of glory, is a present reality.

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #6 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 11:08:52 »
How will people identify Jesus when he comes back to save the people waiting for him?

   Jesus is here. "Christ in you" the hope of glory, is a present reality.

I understand that, I'm just wondering what the group consensus is because nobody is supposed to be believed when they say look there he is because those are false christs. The false christs exists in people that believe in his 3rd coming since the second already happened. That would be all the people that don't understand.

Offline grace

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #7 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 11:16:36 »
I have no idea of predictions you talk of, but I do have a hope in scripture as I believe them, prophesy unfulfilled, and glory to come. Will that affect my salvation? My salvation is not based of my knowledge of prophesy, but my belief on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 ::amen!::

Lehigh

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #8 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 11:36:45 »
I have no idea of predictions you talk of, but I do have a hope in scripture as I believe them, prophesy unfulfilled, and glory to come. Will that affect my salvation? My salvation is not based of my knowledge of prophesy, but my belief on the Lord Jesus Christ.

That depends on which salvation you refer to. Salvation now (temporal) or salvation from hell?

If one does good works and does His commands, it shows God he is a good and faithful servant.

But if one's time is just spent on the end of all things "to come" without regard for preaching good news NOW and for the future, then I don't think one is doing good works, but preaching bad news for the world and selfishly thinking they are saved so it doesn't matter- but it does! In fact they are acting like psychics. Salvation now depends on doing God's will and not something He hates.

Why preach about prophecy, something futurists don't seem to understand?  Do you think it pleases God?

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #9 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 11:56:30 »
I have no idea of predictions you talk of, but I do have a hope in scripture as I believe them, prophesy unfulfilled, and glory to come. Will that affect my salvation? My salvation is not based of my knowledge of prophesy, but my belief on the Lord Jesus Christ.

That depends on which salvation you refer to. Salvation now (temporal) or salvation from hell?

If one does good works and does His commands, it shows God he is a good and faithful servant.

But if one's time is just spent on the end of all things "to come" without regard for preaching good news NOW and for the future, then I don't think one is doing good works, but preaching bad news for the world and selfishly thinking they are saved so it doesn't matter- but it does! In fact they are acting like psychics. Salvation now depends on doing God's will and not something He hates.

Why preach about prophecy, something futurists don't seem to understand?  Do you think it pleases God?

They all sound like robots instead of helping others with how God reveals himself to us.

larry2

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #10 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 15:44:27 »



How will people identify Jesus when he comes back to save the people waiting for him?



   Jesus is here. "Christ in you" the hope of glory, is a present reality.


That's odd, I thought we'd know them by their fruits.

Romans 8:24  For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

It appears that if there is hope, it is in a future reality else why hope for something you have?

BTW, have you already attained the crown? 2 Timothy 4:8  Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

 
 

Offline fenton

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #11 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 18:58:51 »
if you will but look up, you will see Him coming,

 ::clappingoverhead:: ::clappingoverhead::


if he is purched on a throne here on earth or walking around claiming he is god, 

look out!!!!!!!!!!!!  ::frown::

inthenow

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #12 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 19:03:27 »
  
Lehigh:
There is no more prophecy to come.  It's over. and fulfilled.  Why can't futurists live by Faith instead of arguing which fictional story of Jesus coming or antichrist, or what bad tribulation they expect to come?

Rev_10:11  And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
Hasn't happened to this day . One reason why John might be one of the two witnesses.


       Why are futurists so negative and insist that they call His coming a "hope" when it really makes their heart sick?

That's a new one on me. It makes me truly alive.
Tit_2:13  Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
That's why we call His coming a hope.
Be concerned that you don't have it.


    Is it a denominational thing?   ::juggle::  It's really sad to read I tell ya.  

                        
I'm non denominational, many are.  ::nodding::

Lehigh

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #13 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 20:41:53 »
inthenow said:
Quote
Rev_10:11  And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
Hasn't happened to this day . One reason why John might be one of the two witnesses.

Are you out of breath that you couldn't write properly? Do you mean "this hasn't happened to this day?" 

First of all, it was just told to John that when the 7th angel sounds,  the mystery of God would be complete., and that there would be no delay. What mystery ? The mystery of the resurrection of the dead at the last trumpet.
Now John is told to eat the little book so that he must prophecy again about peoples, tongues, kings.
So, all this is saying is that John has more to prophecy before the days of last trumpet sounding.
I don't think there is any consensus about who or what the "Two Witnesses" are or were any way.
John wrote Revelation about AD64, but most of his "prophesying" is in his Revelation epistle.

Quote
That's a new one on me. It makes me truly alive.
Tit_2:13  Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
That's why we call His coming a hope.
Be concerned that you don't have it.
Who was Paul speaking to? If Timothy's hope was unfulfilled in his lifetime, then he surely died sick at heart. Hope deferred makes the heart sick, But desire fulfilled is a tree of life.- [Pr. 13:12]
Why wait for something that is already yours? That is misplaced (and confused) hope. You don't need that to "feel alive" It is the Spirit which makes us "alive" NOW.
Quote
I'm non denominational, many are.
I was kidding.  I'm non denom. myself.

inthenow

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #14 on: Thu Mar 29, 2012 - 21:12:07 »
Lehigh:
Are you out of breath that you couldn't write properly? Do you mean "this hasn't happened to this day?"

Well, that's what I said, do you need the added "this" to understand?

First of all, it was just told to John that when the 7th angel sounds,  the mystery of God would be complete., and that there would be no delay. What mystery ? The mystery of the resurrection of the dead at the last trumpet.
Now John is told to eat the little book so that he must prophecy again about peoples, tongues, kings.

No, not prophecy about peoples, tongues, kings.
But, before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. Can be done today via the various media.
Left out the "this" again.


So, all this is saying is that John has more to prophecy before the days of last trumpet sounding.
I don't think there is any consensus about who or what the "Two Witnesses" are or were any way.
John wrote Revelation about AD64, but most of his "prophesying" is in his Revelation epistle.

Until he phophesy again.

Who was Paul speaking to? If Timothy's hope was unfulfilled in his lifetime, then he surely died sick at heart. Hope deferred makes the heart sick, But desire fulfilled is a tree of life.- [Pr. 13:12]
Why wait for something that is already yours? That is misplaced (and confused) hope. You don't need that to "feel alive" It is the Spirit which makes us "alive" NOW.

Isn't there a sub forum now for preterist teachings?

I was kidding.  I'm non denom. myself.

Lehigh:
    Is it a denominational thing?   ::juggle::  It's really sad to read I tell ya.  
end quote

Yet you were serious, not humorous.

                        

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #15 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 03:58:28 »
If people believe or know their future is with God and the future already exists since there is no time with God (a thousand years to us is a day with the lord?). Then they already exist there and it's just a matter of direction people take in their minds to understand. If a person cannot experience what it is to be with the lord in heaven NOW (as Leigh puts it) in their limited lifetime, then I am afraid there is no future for them.

Offline chosenone

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #16 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 05:20:44 »
How will people identify Jesus when he comes back to save the people waiting for him?


 we will know believe me.
matthew 24v 30
They will see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory(in brilliancy and spendor)
25v31
when the Son of Man comes in His glory(His majesty and splendor), and all the Holy Angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

I dont think we will miss that.

larry2

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #17 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 10:47:58 »
I have no idea of predictions you talk of, but I do have a hope in scripture as I believe them, prophesy unfulfilled, and glory to come. Will that affect my salvation? My salvation is not based of my knowledge of prophesy, but my belief on the Lord Jesus Christ.

That depends on which salvation you refer to. Salvation now (temporal) or salvation from hell?

If one does good works and does His commands, it shows God he is a good and faithful servant.

But if one's time is just spent on the end of all things "to come" without regard for preaching good news NOW and for the future, then I don't think one is doing good works, but preaching bad news for the world and selfishly thinking they are saved so it doesn't matter- but it does! In fact they are acting like psychics. Salvation now depends on doing God's will and not something He hates.

Why preach about prophecy, something futurists don't seem to understand?  Do you think it pleases God?


I believe the following concerning salvation, and the works you talk of are judged for reward; not salvation.

First - It is provisional. If you accept Jesus as your savior, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9-10) "If you say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, (10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Second - When you become saved, it is at this time that you are born again and have overcome the penalty of sin, or become saved from the great white throne judgment and the resulting lake of fire. (Repeating John 5:24), "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In (Romans 8:1) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."

Third - The working out your own salvation referred to in (Philippians 2:12) is learning to overcome the habit of sin in our lives. This is the experiencing part of our salvation and is another step in our growth as a Christian. (2 Peter 1:5-7) tells us to "Add to your faith virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity." To realize this growth in our lives, we must learn to begin counting our old man dead. (Romans 6:6) "Knowing this, that our old man (The Adamic nature) is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

inthenow

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #18 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 18:35:32 »
How will people identify Jesus when he comes back to save the people waiting for him?


 we will know believe me.
matthew 24v 30
They will see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory(in brilliancy and spendor)
25v31
when the Son of Man comes in His glory(His majesty and splendor), and all the Holy Angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

I dont think we will miss that.
That's right, I have seen some say that, pre tribbers will think that when satan comes that it's Jesus, as if satan comes in glory.
satan is thrown down.
Anyone that wouldn't know Jesus when He appears, dosn't know Jesus now IMO.
The faithful would know an imposter, whether it be satan or the beast.
Joh 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #19 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 05:32:30 »
2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

Our eyes are already fixed on the unseen eternity. That's why nobody will see, God does not invoke our physical senses. Please don't wait to literally see something in the sky, our time in life passes too quickly, we must be renewed in mind.

2 Corinthians 5:13 If we are “out of our mind,
« Last Edit: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 05:39:56 by Bitter Sweet »

Lehigh

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #20 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 11:11:45 »

  Linker still trying to play the psychic when God ceased the gift of prophecy with and in the Apostles' generation!

  "False" prophesying is an obvious abomination!

larry2

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #21 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 12:39:19 »

  Linker still trying to play the psychic when God ceased the gift of prophecy with and in the Apostles' generation!

  "False" prophesying is an obvious abomination!



Again with the bits and pieces to fit your theology. I'm assuming you're referring to 1 Corinthians 13:8. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

I've always applied this to when we would be face to face with our Savior in 1 Corinthians 13:12, but alas I may be wrong; I'll take note considering your post that knowledge could truly have ceased.

 ::pondering::
 

Offline fenton

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #22 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 12:54:43 »

  Linker still trying to play the psychic when God ceased the gift of prophecy with and in the Apostles' generation!

  "False" prophesying is an obvious abomination!



Again with the bits and pieces to fit your theology. I'm assuming you're referring to 1 Corinthians 13:8. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

I've always applied this to when we would be face to face with our Savior in 1 Corinthians 13:12, but alas I may be wrong; I'll take note considering your post that knowledge could truly have ceased.

 ::pondering::
 


if he believes knowledge did cease wonder where he gets his from  ???  ???

inthenow

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #23 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 16:46:37 »
1Co 13:10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.


Lehigh

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #24 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 17:39:57 »

  Linker still trying to play the psychic when God ceased the gift of prophecy with and in the Apostles' generation!

  "False" prophesying is an obvious abomination!



Again with the bits and pieces to fit your theology. I'm assuming you're referring to 1 Corinthians 13:8. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

I've always applied this to when we would be face to face with our Savior in 1 Corinthians 13:12, but alas I may be wrong; I'll take note considering your post that knowledge could truly have ceased.

 ::pondering::
 


if he believes knowledge did cease wonder where he gets his from  ???  ???


No, you all have the wrong verses.

The AD70 fulfillment of Prophecy is depicted in Daniel 9:24-27

Seventy weeks are
determined upon thy people
and upon thy holy city, to
finish the transgression, and
to make an end of sins, and
to make reconciliation for
iniquity, and to bring in
everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and
prophecy, and to anoint the
most Holy..............

larry2

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #25 on: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 13:46:10 »

Is this a formal debate forum, or can we jump in like any other forum / thread?


Stay with the OP so as to not hijack the thread. I do realize that OP's stray even with the authors, and in those cases unless there is a complaint we just roll with the flow. Most times this far into a thread, it no longer comes close to its beginning.
 ::smile::

Lehigh

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #26 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 18:52:40 »
1Co 13:10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.



What is your point with this verse?  Do you know what Paul meant by "that which is perfect?"

larry2

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #27 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 21:04:49 »
1Co 13:10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.


What is your point with this verse?  Do you know what Paul meant by "that which is perfect?"


Can I guess; huh, huh, huh? Did it mean Josephus? ::pokingwithstick:: ::sarcasmalert:

inthenow

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #28 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 22:35:03 »
Lehigh:
1Co 13:10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
What is your point with this verse?

Read the preceeding posts.

Do you know what Paul meant by "that which is perfect?

Yes that which is perfect is when we are glorified in Gods Kingdom, it happens at the rapture, then we will know as we are known, we will  see Him, and be just like Him.

You didn't know that did you, It hasn't happened yet.
1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Lehigh

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #29 on: Wed Apr 04, 2012 - 14:28:12 »
How will people identify Jesus when he comes back to save the people waiting for him?


 we will know believe me.
matthew 24v 30
They will see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory(in brilliancy and spendor)
25v31
when the Son of Man comes in His glory(His majesty and splendor), and all the Holy Angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

I dont think we will miss that.

Who is "they" in the sentence? (the Biblical one)
  It was the Pharisees and Sanhedrin Jesus warned before. They would perceive Him at the right hand of power coming on the glory cloud for judgment in AD67-70AD.

This was God's wrath and judgment on unbelieving Israel.  This is God causing "tribulation" to those who persecuted the church. (2Thess.1)




Lehigh

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #30 on: Wed Apr 04, 2012 - 14:41:02 »
Lehigh:
1Co 13:10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
What is your point with this verse?

Read the preceeding posts.

Do you know what Paul meant by "that which is perfect?

Yes that which is perfect is when we are glorified in Gods Kingdom, it happens at the rapture, then we will know as we are known, we will  see Him, and be just like Him.

You didn't know that did you, It hasn't happened yet.
1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


Much to the contrary, it has happened. You just need to realize the correct interpretation of what Paul wrote. Let me know if you understand it better after you read it and meditate on it a couple of times, ok?


By David A. Green

    If there are prophecies, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; or knowledge, it will be done away.  For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; but when that which is perfect comes, that which is in part will be done away.  When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.  For now we see in a mirror, in an enigma, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall fully know just as I am fully known.

I Cor. 13:8-12 - That Which Is Perfect


    In the above passage of Scripture the Apostle Paul taught that at the coming of "that which is perfect," three things were to happen:  "Prophecies" would be abolished, "knowledge" (supernaturally revealed knowledge) would be abolished, and "tongues" (supernaturally acquired speaking of languages) would cease.  "Prophecies," "knowledge," and "tongues" were things that were "in part," incomplete or imperfect.  Paul compared having them to still being a child and to looking through a mirror dimly instead of face to face.  Whereas the doing away of those things was to mean the coming of completeness or maturity.

    Based on Paul's words in this passage, the only question as to whether or not the gift of "tongues" exists today as it did in Bible times is a question of timing: Has "that which is perfect" come?  If it has, then tongues have ceased.  But if "that which is perfect" has not yet come, then tongues have not ceased and God has meant for tongues to continue on throughout the centuries as a normal practice in the Church up to our present day.

    First, to determine whether or not "that which is perfect" has come we must determine exactly what "that which is perfect" is.  The Greek word for "perfect" here is telios, and it means "complete," "full grown" or "mature"; it refers to something which has been brought to its end or goal.  Paul was looking forward to a coming maturity or completeness.

    There are two other places in the New Testament which speak of that perfection to which Paul and the 1st-century Church were hoping to attain.  From those two passages and their contexts we will be able to determine exactly what "that which is perfect" was to be, and also when it was to come.  The two references are Eph. 4:13 and Heb. 9:11.  Let's look at Eph. 4:13 first:

 
  There are two other places in the New Testament which speak of that perfection to which Paul and the 1st-century Church were hoping to attain.  From those two passages and their contexts we will be able to determine exactly what "that which is perfect" was to be, and also when it was to come.  The two references are Eph. 4:13 and Heb. 9:11.  Let's look at Eph. 4:13 first:

 

    Ephesians 4:13
    The Perfect Man, The Temple of God


        "...until we all may come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown [TELIOS] man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ...."

    Here we see that "that which is perfect" was to be the full-grown Body of Christ, the mature Church.  God was building up Christ's Body, the Church, through the gifts of the Holy Spirit to the end that the Church would grow up in Christ-likeness unto the mature or perfect (telios) Man (Eph. 4:11-13). [in AD70]

    And Eph. 2:21 teaches us exactly what this final perfection of the Body of Christ was to mean:  When the Church finally reached maturity or perfection through the gifts of the Holy Spirit, it was to become God's Temple.  Through the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the Church was "being built together into a Dwelling-place of God in the Spirit" (Eph. 2:22).  The Apostle Peter also referred to that future perfection when he wrote, "...you also as living stones are being built a spiritual house...." (I Peter 2:25)

    "That which is perfect" then was to come by means of the Holy Spirit and was to be the consummation of the work of the Holy Spirit.  The gifts of the Holy Spirit were given to the end that the Body of Christ (the Church) would eventually become the perfect (telios) Dwelling/Temple/Tabernacle of God.

    Now according to the Bible, when exactly in history was the work of the Holy Spirit in perfecting the Body of Christ to be consummated or finished so that the perfect Temple of God would be come in its fullness bringing about the cessation of tongues?  To answer this, let's look at the final New Testament reference to the coming of "that which is perfect."


http://www.preteristarchive.com/Hyper/0000_green_tongues.html

Offline grace

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #31 on: Wed Apr 04, 2012 - 15:13:57 »
Word of knowledge, prophecy and tongues have not been done away with!

The meaning of prophecy...speak for another...So it could mean to Speak for God or be His spokesman. To edify, exhort and comfort.  Why would this be done away with?

It is a word of knowledge...a word is a fragmentary part of a sentence, so a word of knowledge would be a fragmentary part of the entire knowledge or counsel of God...not complete knowledge! God is all knowing, He has all knowledge. God still speaks to people and gives us a word of knowledge...a supernatural revelation by the Holy Spirit of certain facts in the mind of God.

When we see Him face to face and we are changed into His image...then we will know completley! We are still being built up in our faith!

Offline fenton

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #32 on: Wed Apr 04, 2012 - 15:32:06 »
Word of knowledge, prophecy and tongues have not been done away with!

The meaning of prophecy...speak for another...So it could mean to Speak for God or be His spokesman. To edify, exhort and comfort.  Why would this be done away with?

It is a word of knowledge...a word is a fragmentary part of a sentence, so a word of knowledge would be a fragmentary part of the entire knowledge or counsel of God...not complete knowledge! God is all knowing, He has all knowledge. God still speaks to people and gives us a word of knowledge...a supernatural revelation by the Holy Spirit of certain facts in the mind of God.

When we see Him face to face and we are changed into His image...then we will know completley! We are still being built up in our faith!

 ::nodding:: ::nodding:: ::clappingoverhead::

larry2

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #33 on: Wed Apr 04, 2012 - 15:49:20 »
Word of knowledge, prophecy and tongues have not been done away with!

The meaning of prophecy...speak for another...So it could mean to Speak for God or be His spokesman. To edify, exhort and comfort.  Why would this be done away with?

It is a word of knowledge...a word is a fragmentary part of a sentence, so a word of knowledge would be a fragmentary part of the entire knowledge or counsel of God...not complete knowledge! God is all knowing, He has all knowledge. God still speaks to people and gives us a word of knowledge...a supernatural revelation by the Holy Spirit of certain facts in the mind of God.

When we see Him face to face and we are changed into His image...then we will know completley! We are still being built up in our faith!



      And there!!  ::nana::

Lehigh

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Re: The just shall live by Faith, not prophecy!
« Reply #34 on: Wed Apr 04, 2012 - 18:26:05 »
Word of knowledge, prophecy and tongues have not been done away with!

The meaning of prophecy...speak for another...So it could mean to Speak for God or be His spokesman. To edify, exhort and comfort.  Why would this be done away with?

It is a word of knowledge...a word is a fragmentary part of a sentence, so a word of knowledge would be a fragmentary part of the entire knowledge or counsel of God...not complete knowledge! God is all knowing, He has all knowledge. God still speaks to people and gives us a word of knowledge...a supernatural revelation by the Holy Spirit of certain facts in the mind of God.

When we see Him face to face and we are changed into His image...then we will know completley! We are still being built up in our faith!
  No one said people do not speak in tongues at all today. And I have had revelatory words of knowledge. But infrequent "gifts" are not the same as the en masse giving of the supernatural gifts that were manifest in the first century, in the time of the emergent church.
 
Notice at the summary of the article the author says:

    Now if we no longer live in the era of covenantal transition wherein God was changing His dwelling from the symbolic, man-made temple to the true, heavenly Temple in the heart of His redeemed people; and if the destruction of unbelieving, old covenant Israel and its imperfect temple took place in A.D. 70, then it is manifest that tongues ceased by A.D. 70.

    Does this mean that no one ever speaks in tongues today?  Surely, if God wants someone to miraculously speak in another language, then that's what God will cause to happen.  God can do whatever He wants.  But the question should not be so much whether or not anyone ever speaks in another language by the Spirit of God today; the question should be whether or not Christians speak in tongues en masse as they did in the first century.

    It has been taught by some lately that God has re-poured His Spirit upon all flesh and has re-started the first-century tongues movement in our day because we are now, again, in "the last days."  But why would God return His people to those imperfect, partial things which were to exist only while the old testament form of worship was still being imposed upon fleshly Israel in its last waning years?  Are we to believe that God will return His people to the days of the child (the old testament age; cf. Gal. 4:1-7)?  Will we have to go back to the days of transition (from Biblical Judaism to Christianity, from old covenant to New Covenant) when God's people saw Christ as through a mirror in dimness and not face to face as we do now since Christ long ago removed the veil at the Consummation of the old-testament age in A.D. 70 (II Cor. 3:13-16)

 

     
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