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Offline Gomer

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #105 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 21:45:11 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
 yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #105 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 21:45:11 »

Offline grace

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #106 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 21:47:52 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
  yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?
[/quote

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #106 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 21:47:52 »

Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #107 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 03:02:57 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.


If Peter was saved through water baptism, Why did Jesus have to die, And how come Peter got saved in Jn 20: 22??.

Jesus never sain Baptism saves, The Bible translater said that.
The same with Acts 2: 38. Peter never said "Bapised for the remission of sins".
The translater mislead us by saying that, But acording to catholics, They translated the scriptures, So they put thei own lies in.

Offline winsome

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #108 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 05:02:20 »
These are the baptisms that I find in the Bible...

The Baptism of John- Repentance
The Baptism of Jesus- Anointing, begins ministry of prophet and priesthood
The Baptism of Fire- Purifying or judgment
The Baptism of Moses- Deliverance of the nation Israel
The Baptism of the Cross (or Cup)- The suffering of death for our sins
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit- for power to witness
The Believers Baptism- Identification with Christ  by water baptism

So which one is the one baptism?

Also Heb. 2 speaks of doctrine of baptisms.

The baptism of John - is a baptism in water but not Christian baptism

The baptism of Jesus and the apostles at the beginning of John's gospel John - not entirely clear what this was but possibly the making of disciples. It's definately not the baptism that Jesus inaugurated later (Mk 16:16 & Mt 28:19)

Baptism with water - inaugurated by Jesus in Mk 16:16 & Mt 28:19. This is the post resurrection baptism for salvation.

Being baptised in the Holy Spirit (and fire) – a prophecy of Pentecost. Not a baptism but using baptism as a metaphor for something new (the outpouring of the Holy Spirit) in terms of something they were familiar with (baptism with water).

Jesus reference to the baptism “the baptism with which I am baptized

Offline winsome

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #109 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 05:06:04 »
If Peter was saved through water baptism, Why did Jesus have to die, And how come Peter got saved in Jn 20: 22??.

Jesus never sain Baptism saves, The Bible translater said that.
The same with Acts 2: 38. Peter never said "Bapised for the remission of sins".
The translater mislead us by saying that, But acording to catholics, They translated the scriptures, So they put thei own lies in.

"But acording to catholics, They translated the scriptures, So they put thei own lies in."

What utter nonesense.

The Greek Orthodox believe baptism remits sins and saves us. They don't need to translate anything.

ALL translations - Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant - ALL translate it the same way.

It's only your personal translation that tries to change it.


"Jesus never sain Baptism saves, The Bible translater said that."

ALL translations - Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant - ALL translate it the same way.

It's only your personal translation that tries to change it.


The vast majority of Christians - Catholics, Orthodox and most Protestants believe that baptism saves us.

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #109 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 05:06:04 »



Offline winsome

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #110 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 05:11:04 »

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.

Yes, it's very simple. I can't understand why a small minority of Christians can't understand this.


Offline winsome

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #111 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 05:12:44 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

keep taking baths

Please tell me you are not serious!

no  ::smile::

No, you are not serious?
or
No, you are not going to tell him?  ::pondering::


Offline fenton

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #112 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 08:26:27 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

keep taking baths

Please tell me you are not serious!

no  ::smile::

No, you are not serious?
or
No, you are not going to tell him?  ::pondering::



no i am not serious, i was being a smarty pants

Offline winsome

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #113 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 08:33:46 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

keep taking baths

Please tell me you are not serious!

no  ::smile::

No, you are not serious?
or
No, you are not going to tell him?  ::pondering::



no i am not serious, i was being a smarty pants

And so was I - have to do something silly when the going gets heavy. ::disco::

Offline Gomer

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #114 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 08:44:13 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
 yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?


 God baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill the promise of the Comforter being sent to them.  God baptized the Gentiles with the HS in Acts 10 as a sign to the Jews that the gospel was not for the Jews only.  These two instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy about God's spirit being poured out upon all flesh (Jew and Gentile) making this baptism obsolete.

Offline fenton

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #115 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 08:52:27 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
 yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?


 God baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill the promise of the Comforter being sent to them.  God baptized the Gentiles with the HS in Acts 10 as a sign to the Jews that the gospel was not for the Jews only.  These two instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy about God's spirit being poured out upon all flesh (Jew and Gentile) making this baptism obsolete.

 ::frown::

Offline grace

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #116 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 09:46:08 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
  yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?


 God baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill the promise of the Comforter being sent to them.  God baptized the Gentiles with the HS in Acts 10 as a sign to the Jews that the gospel was not for the Jews only.  These two instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy about God's spirit being poured out upon all flesh (Jew and Gentile) making this baptism obsolete.

So you are saying that no one is baptized in the Holy Spirit today? I thought it was promised to their children an to all that are afar off....all that the Lord calls.

What happen in Acts 8 and 19? Was Paul not baptized in the Holy Spirit?

Offline grace

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #117 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 09:55:46 »
Gomer, "the deeds of the Law"...you never answered post # 84.....

Offline winsome

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #118 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 10:18:03 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
 yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?


 God baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill the promise of the Comforter being sent to them.  God baptized the Gentiles with the HS in Acts 10 as a sign to the Jews that the gospel was not for the Jews only.  These two instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy about God's spirit being poured out upon all flesh (Jew and Gentile) making this baptism obsolete.

So you are saying that no one is baptized in the Holy Spirit today? I thought it was promised to their children an to all that are afar off....all that the Lord calls.

What happen in Acts 8 and 19? Was Paul not baptized in the Holy Spirit?

There is much confusion over this because of the Pentecostals.

I know of no instance in scripture or Christian writings where the phrase “Baptism in (or with) the Holy Spirit

Offline Gomer

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #119 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 10:45:05 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
  yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?


 God baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill the promise of the Comforter being sent to them.  God baptized the Gentiles with the HS in Acts 10 as a sign to the Jews that the gospel was not for the Jews only.  These two instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy about God's spirit being poured out upon all flesh (Jew and Gentile) making this baptism obsolete.

So you are saying that no one is baptized in the Holy Spirit today? I thought it was promised to their children an to all that are afar off....all that the Lord calls.

What happen in Acts 8 and 19? Was Paul not baptized in the Holy Spirit?


Acts 2:38 is water baptism of the great commisson.  Acts 8 and 19 was an apostle(s) laying hands upon another and not baptism with the HS.  Baptism with the HS occurs only twice where God baptized w/HS without intervention of man, and that is in Acts 2 and 10.  Both of these instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy making this baptism obsolete.  No verse anywhere promises anyone today they will be baptized with the HS. 

Offline fenton

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #120 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 10:59:07 »


Acts 2:38 is water baptism of the great commisson.  Acts 8 and 19 was an apostle(s) laying hands upon another and not baptism with the HS.  Baptism with the HS occurs only twice where God baptized w/HS without intervention of man, and that is in Acts 2 and 10.  Both of these instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy making this baptism obsolete.  No verse anywhere promises anyone today they will be baptized with the HS. 

 ::frown::  ::frown:: only a mean father would would give a gift and then take it away

Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #121 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 11:13:57 »
If Peter was saved through water baptism, Why did Jesus have to die, And how come Peter got saved in Jn 20: 22??.

Jesus never said Baptism saves, The Bible translater said that.
The same with Acts 2: 38. Peter never said "Bapised for the remission of sins".
The translater mislead us by saying that, But acording to catholics, They translated the scriptures, So they put thei own lies in.

"But acording to catholics, They translated the scriptures, So they put thei own lies in."

What utter nonesense.

The Greek Orthodox believe baptism remits sins and saves us. They don't need to translate anything.

ALL translations - Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant - ALL translate it the same way.

It's only your personal translation that tries to change it.


"Jesus never said Baptism saves, The Bible translater said that."

ALL translations - Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant - ALL translate it the same way.

It's only your personal translation that tries to change it.


The vast majority of Christians - Catholics, Orthodox and most Protestants believe that baptism saves us.




1)Catholic do twist the Scripture and the Greek, If you know the Bible and the Greek, You would know they do.

2)The Greek Orthodox Church might believe baptism remits sins and saves , But the New Testament Greek texts dont say it does, And I would rather believe the Bible and the Greek.
It isn't my personal translation STOP TELLING LIES.
I have proved to you from the Bible and the Greek that water baptism doesn't save.

3)Protestants, catholics, Orthodox and so-called Christians might believe that water baptism saves, But born again TRUE people of God know it doesn't.
And it you were saved, You would know water baptism doesn't save.

4)How did you get baptised in water, Was it as an infant?.

Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #122 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 11:20:49 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
 yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?


 God baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill the promise of the Comforter being sent to them.  God baptized the Gentiles with the HS in Acts 10 as a sign to the Jews that the gospel was not for the Jews only.  These two instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy about God's spirit being poured out upon all flesh (Jew and Gentile) making this baptism obsolete.

The baptism in the Holy Ghost wasn't just for the disciples and the Gentiles in
Acts 2, & 10.
Jesus said it was for everyone who'll believe, Jn 7: 37--39. Jn 14: 12--16.
So did Peter, Acts 2: 38--39.
People still got baptised in the Holy Ghost after the gentiles in Acts 10. Acts 19: 2--6.

God is still baptising people with the Holy Ghost today.

Offline winsome

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #123 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 11:23:54 »
If Peter was saved through water baptism, Why did Jesus have to die, And how come Peter got saved in Jn 20: 22??.

Jesus never said Baptism saves, The Bible translater said that.
The same with Acts 2: 38. Peter never said "Bapised for the remission of sins".
The translater mislead us by saying that, But acording to catholics, They translated the scriptures, So they put thei own lies in.

"But acording to catholics, They translated the scriptures, So they put thei own lies in."

What utter nonesense.

The Greek Orthodox believe baptism remits sins and saves us. They don't need to translate anything.

ALL translations - Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant - ALL translate it the same way.

It's only your personal translation that tries to change it.


"Jesus never said Baptism saves, The Bible translater said that."

ALL translations - Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant - ALL translate it the same way.

It's only your personal translation that tries to change it.


The vast majority of Christians - Catholics, Orthodox and most Protestants believe that baptism saves us.




1)Catholic do twist the Scripture and the Greek, If you know the Bible and the Greek, You would know they do.
And according to you so do Protestants since ALL translations say the same thing.

According to you, you are the only one that doesn’t “twist scriptures

Offline fenton

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #124 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 11:33:01 »
baptism does not save, it is symbolical of the washing away of sins by Jesus' blood, a symbol!

it is also an announcement, a professing of you giving your life to Christ.

Offline Scott1

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #125 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 11:34:35 »
Quote from: winsome
I am saved and I know that baptism does save
Glad you feel this way, but I am curious about your definition....

Does baptism save, or is baptism salvific?

I am sure you know what I mean, but to be clear:

If an person dies moments after Baptism, yes, I do believe that the grace of the Sacrament would save them.

If a person is baptized and lives 99 years of a unrepentant, sinful life then, no, baptism does not save them.

Agree?

Offline Gomer

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #126 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 11:50:39 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.


If Peter was saved through water baptism, Why did Jesus have to die, And how come Peter got saved in Jn 20: 22??.

Jesus never sain Baptism saves, The Bible translater said that.
The same with Acts 2: 38. Peter never said "Bapised for the remission of sins".
The translater mislead us by saying that, But acording to catholics, They translated the scriptures, So they put thei own lies in.

If Jesus had not died then baptism would not save.  Peter was already in a saved postion, a disciple before Jn 20:22.

No, it is you that is trying to change the bible to fit your theology.  All the bible translators are wrong, all the Greek scholars are wrong, everyone is wrong but Dr Truth.

Offline Gomer

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #127 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 12:02:42 »


Acts 2:38 is water baptism of the great commisson.  Acts 8 and 19 was an apostle(s) laying hands upon another and not baptism with the HS.  Baptism with the HS occurs only twice where God baptized w/HS without intervention of man, and that is in Acts 2 and 10.  Both of these instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy making this baptism obsolete.  No verse anywhere promises anyone today they will be baptized with the HS. 

 ::frown::  ::frown:: only a mean father would would give a gift and then take it away

God never promised anyone today baptism with the HS.  Many people make this claim to get around the fact water baptism is essential for salvation.

Offline Gomer

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #128 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 12:04:31 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
 yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?


 God baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill the promise of the Comforter being sent to them.  God baptized the Gentiles with the HS in Acts 10 as a sign to the Jews that the gospel was not for the Jews only.  These two instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy about God's spirit being poured out upon all flesh (Jew and Gentile) making this baptism obsolete.

The baptism in the Holy Ghost wasn't just for the disciples and the Gentiles in
Acts 2, & 10.
Jesus said it was for everyone who'll believe, Jn 7: 37--39. Jn 14: 12--16.
So did Peter, Acts 2: 38--39.
People still got baptised in the Holy Ghost after the gentiles in Acts 10. Acts 19: 2--6.

God is still baptising people with the Holy Ghost today.

Jesus nor Peter never promised baptism with the HS to everyone that believed.  There is not a single NT verse that promises Dr Truth that he will be baptized with the HS.

Offline Gomer

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #129 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 12:06:26 »
baptism does not save, it is symbolical of the washing away of sins by Jesus' blood, a symbol!

it is also an announcement, a professing of you giving your life to Christ.


fenton "baptism does not save"
The Bible "baptism doth also now save us"


If we compare and contrast we can see Fenton's statement is not in alignment with what the bible says.

Offline Gomer

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #130 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 12:09:37 »
Gomer, "the deeds of the Law"...you never answered post # 84.....

Deeds of the OT law do not saved and the baptism of Acts 2:38 is not a deed of the OT law.

Offline fenton

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #131 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 12:13:18 »
baptism does not save, it is symbolical of the washing away of sins by Jesus' blood, a symbol!

it is also an announcement, a professing of you giving your life to Christ.


fenton "baptism does not save"
The Bible "baptism doth also now save us"


If we compare and contrast we can see Fenton's statement is not in alignment with what the bible says.

 ::smile::  ::whistle::

Offline Gomer

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #132 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 12:23:37 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the apostles were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
 yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?


 God baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill the promise of the Comforter being sent to them.  God baptized the Gentiles with the HS in Acts 10 as a sign to the Jews that the gospel was not for the Jews only.  These two instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy about God's spirit being poured out upon all flesh (Jew and Gentile) making this baptism obsolete.

So you are saying that no one is baptized in the Holy Spirit today? I thought it was promised to their children an to all that are afar off....all that the Lord calls.

What happen in Acts 8 and 19? Was Paul not baptized in the Holy Spirit?


That is not to say the outpouring of the Holy Spirit prophesied by Joel only happened on those two occasions but the terminology “Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Last Edit: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 12:50:32 by Gomer »

Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #133 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 12:50:39 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
 yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?


 God baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill the promise of the Comforter being sent to them.  God baptized the Gentiles with the HS in Acts 10 as a sign to the Jews that the gospel was not for the Jews only.  These two instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy about God's spirit being poured out upon all flesh (Jew and Gentile) making this baptism obsolete.

The baptism in the Holy Ghost wasn't just for the disciples and the Gentiles in
Acts 2, & 10.
Jesus said it was for everyone who'll believe, Jn 7: 37--39. Jn 14: 12--16.
So did Peter, Acts 2: 38--39.
People still got baptised in the Holy Ghost after the gentiles in Acts 10. Acts 19: 2--6.

God is still baptising people with the Holy Ghost today.

Jesus nor Peter never promised baptism with the HS to everyone that believed.  There is not a single NT verse that promises Dr Truth that he will be baptized with the HS.


Stop telling lies you naughty man.
Jesus.
Mk 16: 17,These sign shall follow  "THEM THAT BELIEVETH".
v17, "THEY SHALL SPEAK WITH NEW TONGES"..
You have to be baptised in the Holy Ghost to speak in tongues.
Jn 7: 37--39.
V37, "If ANY MAN".   V38, "HE that BELIEVETH".
Jn 14: 12--16, V12, "HE that BELIEVETH".

Peter.
Acts 2: 28-39.
V39. "The promis is unto YOU". And, "As many as God calls".
If you believe God has called you, Then the Holy Ghost is for you.
Acts 15: 8--9.
V9.  "Purifying the hearts by FAITH".
Acts 5: 32, "God gives the Holy Ghost to the that obey Him".

Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #134 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 12:57:09 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the apostles were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
 yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?


 God baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill the promise of the Comforter being sent to them.  God baptized the Gentiles with the HS in Acts 10 as a sign to the Jews that the gospel was not for the Jews only.  These two instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy about God's spirit being poured out upon all flesh (Jew and Gentile) making this baptism obsolete.

So you are saying that no one is baptized in the Holy Spirit today? I thought it was promised to their children an to all that are afar off....all that the Lord calls.

What happen in Acts 8 and 19? Was Paul not baptized in the Holy Spirit?


That is not to say the outpouring of the Holy Spirit prophesied by Joel only happened on those two occasions but the terminology “Baptism in the Holy Spirit

Offline fenton

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #135 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 13:02:46 »

All flesh in Acts 2: 17, Means anyone who will believe, Jn 7: 37--39.
Acts 2: 38--39.
Just because you don't have the faith to receieve the Holy Ghost, It doesn't mean those of us who do have the faith don't receive Him.
The Bible and Church history proves that the baptism in the Holy Ghost is for everyone who believes.

Stop telling lies you naughty man.
Jesus.
Mk 16: 17,These sign shall follow  "THEM THAT BELIEVETH".
v17, "THEY SHALL SPEAK WITH NEW TONGES"..
You have to be baptised in the Holy Ghost to speak in tongues.
Jn 7: 37--39.
V37, "If ANY MAN".   V38, "HE that BELIEVETH".
Jn 14: 12--16, V12, "HE that BELIEVETH".

Peter.
Acts 2: 28-39.
V39. "The promis is unto YOU". And, "As many as God calls".
If you believe God has called you, Then the Holy Ghost is for you.
Acts 15: 8--9.
V9.  "Purifying the hearts by FAITH".
Acts 5: 32, "God gives the Holy Ghost to the that obey Him".
::amen!::  ::clappingoverhead::  ::nodding::
so true................   

as your friend thinker would put it.. ::dancingbanana::

Offline Gomer

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #136 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 13:04:16 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the aposltes were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
 yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?


 God baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill the promise of the Comforter being sent to them.  God baptized the Gentiles with the HS in Acts 10 as a sign to the Jews that the gospel was not for the Jews only.  These two instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy about God's spirit being poured out upon all flesh (Jew and Gentile) making this baptism obsolete.

The baptism in the Holy Ghost wasn't just for the disciples and the Gentiles in
Acts 2, & 10.
Jesus said it was for everyone who'll believe, Jn 7: 37--39. Jn 14: 12--16.
So did Peter, Acts 2: 38--39.
People still got baptised in the Holy Ghost after the gentiles in Acts 10. Acts 19: 2--6.

God is still baptising people with the Holy Ghost today.

Jesus nor Peter never promised baptism with the HS to everyone that believed.  There is not a single NT verse that promises Dr Truth that he will be baptized with the HS.


Stop telling lies you naughty man.
Jesus.
Mk 16: 17,These sign shall follow  "THEM THAT BELIEVETH".
v17, "THEY SHALL SPEAK WITH NEW TONGES"..
You have to be baptised in the Holy Ghost to speak in tongues.
Jn 7: 37--39.
V37, "If ANY MAN".   V38, "HE that BELIEVETH".
Jn 14: 12--16, V12, "HE that BELIEVETH".

Peter.
Acts 2: 28-39.
V39. "The promis is unto YOU". And, "As many as God calls".
If you believe God has called you, Then the Holy Ghost is for you.
Acts 15: 8--9.
V9.  "Purifying the hearts by FAITH".
Acts 5: 32, "God gives the Holy Ghost to the that obey Him".

Nowhere does the bible call these instances "baptism with the HS" as you are trying to do, therefore no one today has been promised baptism with the HS.  

Example: The eunuch was water baptized not baptized with the HS so does that make Jesus a liar in Mk 16 when He said these signs shall follow them that believe?  The eunuch believed but was not baptized with the HS. In 1 Cor 12:29,30 Paul said not all are workers of miracles, not all speak with tongues, yoet you have twisted Mk 16 in that ALL who believe will have signs.

Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #137 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 13:07:08 »
Quote from: winsome
I am saved and I know that baptism does save
Glad you feel this way, but I am curious about your definition....

Does baptism save, or is baptism salvific?

I am sure you know what I mean, but to be clear:

If an person dies moments after Baptism, yes, I do believe that the grace of the Sacrament would save them.

If a person is baptized and lives 99 years of a unrepentant, sinful life then, no, baptism does not save them.

Agree?


Neither water baptism or the sacrament  will save anyone

Offline Gomer

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #138 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 13:10:45 »
Two more questions?

When do you think the apostles were saved? If baptism saves you...were they saved when John baptized them?

If baptism washes away sin...what happens if you sin after you are baptized?

Yes, I believe the apostles were baptized with John's baptism which remitted sins.

In Acts 8, Simon believed and was baptized, v13.  Afterwards he sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money, v18 and Peter told him to pray and repent for forgiveness, v22.

So when John baptized the apostles, you believe this is when they received eternal life?
I thought that Johns baptism was unto repentance (change of mind)?

So, baptism did not save Simon?

Mk 1:4  "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."



Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."


Mk  16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

 According to Jesus' own words Simon would be in a saved position when he believed and was baptized, else Jesus lied.

So were the apostles saved when John baptized them?
 yes

and baptism saved them? So what happen on the day of Pentecost?

John's baptism ended and Christ's baptism of the great commission began.
Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit, didn't He?


 God baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill the promise of the Comforter being sent to them.  God baptized the Gentiles with the HS in Acts 10 as a sign to the Jews that the gospel was not for the Jews only.  These two instances fulfilled Joel's prophecy about God's spirit being poured out upon all flesh (Jew and Gentile) making this baptism obsolete.

So you are saying that no one is baptized in the Holy Spirit today? I thought it was promised to their children an to all that are afar off....all that the Lord calls.

What happen in Acts 8 and 19? Was Paul not baptized in the Holy Spirit?


That is not to say the outpouring of the Holy Spirit prophesied by Joel only happened on those two occasions but the terminology “Baptism in the Holy Spirit

Offline Gomer

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Re: "One Baptism"
« Reply #139 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 13:14:32 »
Quote from: winsome
I am saved and I know that baptism does save
Glad you feel this way, but I am curious about your definition....

Does baptism save, or is baptism salvific?

I am sure you know what I mean, but to be clear:

If an person dies moments after Baptism, yes, I do believe that the grace of the Sacrament would save them.

If a person is baptized and lives 99 years of a unrepentant, sinful life then, no, baptism does not save them.

Agree?


Neither water baptism or the sacrament  will save anyone

Bible:  Baptism doth also now save us
Dr Truth:  water baptism...will not save anyone