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Author Topic: Baptised for the dead?  (Read 4420 times)

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p.rehbein

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Re: Baptised for the dead?
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2011, 05:37:45 AM »

I said:
p.rehbein: "That isn't what I said at all.  Why do people insist in misrepresenting what others say?  What is the point?  Who on earth cannot understand that every person is a distinctly different individual, and their stories are just as different.  One may be a store clerk, another a brain surgen, another a sailor, another a commercial fisherman, and on, and on.  We are all distinctly different individuals, and we all have different stories of our lives.  God calls us all as He wishes to call us, and for the purpose He has determined for us.  We are not "clones" or "cookie cutter" beings.  Why is that so hard to understand?  Why try to make something out of a simple statement?  I do not understand it................."

pointmade said:

Wait a minute, you say you "do not understand it," yet, God has "determined" a purpose for you.
In case our "guests," as you refer, do not know the meaning of "determined for us," let me enlighten them.
==============================================

are you serious?  When I said I don't understand it, I WAS REFERRING to the fact that YOU and a couple of others here on the Forums CONTINUALLY twist and turn the words of others to misrepresent what that person said.  It seems to be a favorite passtime of yours..........................what is the purpose for you intentionally misrepresenting what others say? 

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Re: Baptised for the dead?
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2011, 05:37:45 AM »

p.rehbein

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Re: Baptised for the dead?
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2011, 05:40:50 AM »
p.rehbein: "That isn't what I said at all.  Why do people insist in misrepresenting what others say?  What is the point?  Who on earth cannot understand that every person is a distinctly different individual, and their stories are just as different.  One may be a store clerk, another a brain surgen, another a sailor, another a commercial fisherman, and on, and on.  We are all distinctly different individuals, and we all have different stories of our lives.  God calls us all as He wishes to call us, and for the purpose He has determined for us.  We are not "clones" or "cookie cutter" beings.  Why is that so hard to understand?  Why try to make something out of a simple statement?  I do not understand it................."

Wait a minute, you say you "do not understand it," yet, God has "determined" a purpose for you.
In case our "guests," as you refer, do not know the meaning of "determined for us," let me enlighten them.

"Determinism" refers to any philosophy that teaches that EVERY event, including human decisions and acts,
is ultimately determined or caused by an outside, all-controlling force.

To understand where p.rehbein is coming from in his comment, "he has determined for us" one must be familiar with
the teaching of John Calvin's FIRST crucial tenet that determinism is this: God is the ultimate CAUSE of everything
that happens.

Note p. rehbein comment: "God calls us all as He wishes to call us, and for the purpose He has determined for us."
Those who follow the teaching of John Calvin believe that "Men can accomplish nothing except by
God's sacred command, ...they cannot by deliberating accomplish anything except what he has already decreed
with himself and 'determines' by his secret direction (Institutes of the Christian Religion, Ixviii. 1).

Calvin says, "The internal affection of men are no less ruled by the hand of God than their external actions
are preceded by His eternal decree; and moreover,...God performs not by the hands of men the things which He
has decreed, without first working in their hearts the very will which precedes the acts they are to perform"
("Secret Providence," 243, John Calvin).

This is the very reason p.rehbein and the Reformer believes that he is "saved" in his heart.
You see, this deadly doctrine leaves man with no choice.
Why? well, he has been predetermined and predestined by God...
Makes no difference if you have a love for God or not. Makes no difference to "first seek
the kingdom of God and his righteousness" as Jesus said in Matthew 6:33.
Those who teach "determinism" as p.rehbein, that IF God has not already "elected" you, and manipulated
your "heart" to believe,.... you will forever be "lost."

This is why "water baptism" is seen as a "ritual" to the "determinist."
In their scholarly minds it is a joke to believe that water baptism could be "for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38)
believing in their "heart" that God was the force behind their being saved in the first cause!

The determinist believes God has regenerated them (miraculously) from Adam's sin 
by causing them to have "faith alone." Thus God must in the final analysis be the ultimate cause of
the sinner's participation in salvation at every step.
If man does not work himself out of this deadly doctrine...he will forever be wondering if he was "elected"
by the "determined" counsel of God.....
Feeling saved in ones heart,... is purely subjective.

with regards to your entire response............you have not the slightest idea of what I believe..........all you have is YOUR opinion, and it is quite clear that your opinion IS NOT BASED on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.......plain and simple.................

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Re: Baptised for the dead?
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2011, 05:40:50 AM »

p.rehbein

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Re: Baptised for the dead?
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2011, 06:12:11 AM »
pointmade,

You may well be one of the most dangerous persons I have encountered on the Internet.  I have great concern for even responding to your false statements/accusations of me and others who do not agree with your ideology.  In this latest one, you have certainly outdone yourself.  I seriously doubt that anyone else here who has spoken with me, or read any of my comments, does not know that I have always supported the "free will" of mankind, and believe it to be one of the greatest Gifts given to mankind by God.  The fact that you cannot understand that God has a purpose for His children, and calls them for that purpose is your problem.  The fact that you cannot understand that even if a person is called, he/she may well choose to not answer their calling.  It occurs each and every day in this world.  It's called free will.  Yet, you would distort my comments (pretending to have understanding of my beliefs) to fit your ideology.  To edify yourself and whatever organization you belong to............what a sad thing................I expect that you will soon again resort to your usual M.O. of referring to me as a cultist.......it seems to be one of your favorite retorts.

You seem to have but one desire/purpose here, and that is to manipulate, distort, and misrepresent the comments of others, and I cannot but wonder why?

On other occasions I have asked you to identify yoursel.  What religious group are you a part of?  If you are goint to continue to put forth the stuff you do, and continue to manipulate, distort, and misrepresent the comments of others, I would think we need to know where this type of ideology is being taught.

If you cannot bring yourself to reveal your affiliation, then I have no further use for your commentary...............


Memphis Dwight

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Re: Baptised for the dead?
« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2011, 12:04:22 PM »
1 Cor 15:29
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

The hurdle to overcome in accurately understanding this passage is one of syntax.  

What the author meant in this verse would go something like this:
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the purpose of burying the dead man of sin, if the dead are not given new life then why are they then baptized for the purpose of burying the dead?

There is corroborating evidence for this in Romans 6:4-11
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Offline Legate

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Re: Baptised for the dead?
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2011, 05:22:44 PM »
We  who put our trust (belief) in the scripture that God says will bring us salvation as Gentiles and Jews today are the only ones who will be raised spiritually.

So when our physical body perishes (dies) our spiritual body will be risen when ever Jesus Christ returns to get his Messianic (Christian) Community.

Below when it says immersed it actually means baptized with the Holy Spirit.

1Co 15:28  Now when everything has been subjected to the Son, then he will subject himself to God, who subjected everything to him; so that God may be everything in everyone.
1Co 15:29  Were it otherwise, what would the people accomplish who are immersed on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not actually raised, why are people immersed for them?

Your physical body dies but if you are one who have put your trust in God and live according to his will with the Holy Spirit in you then you spirit will be risen.

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Re: Baptised for the dead?
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2011, 05:22:44 PM »



p.rehbein

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Re: Baptised for the dead?
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2011, 09:59:05 AM »
We  who put our trust (belief) in the scripture that God says will bring us salvation as Gentiles and Jews today are the only ones who will be raised spiritually.

So when our physical body perishes (dies) our spiritual body will be risen when ever Jesus Christ returns to get his Messianic (Christian) Community.

Below when it says immersed it actually means baptized with the Holy Spirit.

1Co 15:28  Now when everything has been subjected to the Son, then he will subject himself to God, who subjected everything to him; so that God may be everything in everyone.
1Co 15:29  Were it otherwise, what would the people accomplish who are immersed on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not actually raised, why are people immersed for them?

Your physical body dies but if you are one who have put your trust in God and live according to his will with the Holy Spirit in you then you spirit will be risen.

Have to disagree with this..........."EVERY knee shall bow, and EVERY tongue confess.........."  All who have ever lived will be resurrected............some to eternal life, and some to eternal damnation...........ALL will stand before the Judgement Seat, and the Book of Life will be opened, and they will have to give account for every deed, word, thought.........ALL, EVERYONE!