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Author Topic: Baptism is not in water  (Read 8020 times)

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Offline Debbie_55

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #35 on: Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 20:00:33 »

Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47, 48 are both talking about water, but not for the remission of sins, but for an afterward appearance of acknowledgement.

When you make a statement like that which is so flagrantly false, then I tend to dismiss anything else that you have to say. How can you deny that Acts 2:38 is not for the remission [forgiveness] of sins?

Act 2:38  Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.




Act 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40  And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41  Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42  And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and

(nothing here denotes water, only word, as baptized here means to join yourself to Jesus through repenting and you will receive the Holy Spirit)

Act 10:42  And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43  To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44  While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45  And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46  For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47  Can any man forbid water, (word because they were Gentiles) that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48  And he commanded them to be baptized (joined together with Christ) in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


Jimmy and Gomer as I have underlined in these verses it is not about water, but all about the word of God and remission of sin. There is nothing wrong with water baptism, but no dirty river water has ever saved anyone. Water is only an outward appearance like I explained already. What about those who can not be immersed in water because of Physical ailments does this mean their sins will never be forgiven! One more note is that sometimes the word water in the Bible stands to represent Gods word such as in living water.

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #35 on: Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 20:00:33 »

Offline Norton

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #36 on: Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 21:07:58 »
Yes, baptism in water represents many things. The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, joining one to Christ in his d,b,r, and perhaps the Word as has been said. It may also represent baptism in the Holy Spirit, since water often represents the Spirit in the Scripture. So yes, baptism in water is a symbol.

Symbols convey ideas. The written and spoken words of Scripture are but symbols that convey ideas from God to us. In all languages, spoken words are sounds that represent ideas. In English, written words represent sounds that represent ideas. Because the Word is in the form of symbols or words does not make it any less important. And because the idea we receive from God is in the form of a symbol when we are baptized, does not make the idea any less important. No one should reject or take lightly God's communications to us no matter what form the communication is in. And, I might add, receiving ideas from God by being baptized in water is no more a "work" than receiving ideas from God by hearing the Word.

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #36 on: Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 21:07:58 »

cs80918

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #37 on: Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 22:34:26 »
Do you really think when Jesus is judging you he is going to say something like this "You believe in me, you believed I was God manifest in the flesh, you believed I died and rose again, you accepted me as your God and savior, you were beheaded for me, but you were never immersed in water, you were never baptized in water, therefore I am  throwing you into the lake of fire forever"

That just doesn't make any sense. 

Offline pointmade

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #38 on: Thu Nov 24, 2011 - 13:51:46 »
Debby55:  "Jimmy and Gomer as I have underlined in these verses it is not about water, but all about the word of God and remission of sin. There is nothing wrong with water baptism, but no dirty river water has ever saved anyone. Water is only an outward appearance like I explained already. What about those who can not be immersed in water because of Physical ailments does this mean their sins will never be forgiven! One more note is that sometimes the word water in the Bible stands to represent Gods word such as in living water.

Where does "forgiveness of sins" take place with you, Debby?
If I do something to your person and ask "forgiveness"
and you say that you "forgive" me for my action.
Can I count on that forgiveness?
If you decide later to take me to court for recompenses, just how reliable is your word of "forgiveness"?

If you note, Peter, as God's ambassador, says that I have the "PROMISE" of the King to be "added" upon
my baptism in water for the "remission of my sins." (Acts 2:38-47).
I have God's WORD that I am now a child of His. I do not need Spirit baptism to believe this....
It is written!

God's promise is His bond...
I read on this forum of those who say that they are "saved" because they have
"the indwelling Holy Spirit."
Is there a "promise" that one is saved because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

Having the Spirit in our heart does not save...
Our salvation comes from the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross,
where our sins our imputed to Him for righteousness, in the mind of God.
Spirit regeneration is a doctrine that has come from men: Luther, Augustine, Calvin, etc.

Question: Does Paul refer to Spirit baptism when saying that
"if any man be in Christ he is a new creature" (2 Corn, 5:17)?
When does God recognize a sinner as being a "new creation"?
Does this transformation take place in God's mind or the heart of man?
We have a "promised" in Acts 2:38 ff?

If having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is pertinent to ones salvation, why did not Paul use
in defence of his apostleship that he had been baptized with the Holy Spirit?
Note 1 Corinthians 9:1 and 2 Corinthians 12:12.
Not one word about being baptized with the Holy Spirit is mentioned by
Paul the writer of 14 letters in the New Testament. (13 ?)

This forum is saturated with those who claim Holy Spirit baptism,
yet they cannot even agree on Apostolic doctrine or the Second Coming.
Is this an oxymoron or what?

Offline Debbie_55

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #39 on: Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 11:19:12 »
Debby55:  "Jimmy and Gomer as I have underlined in these verses it is not about water, but all about the word of God and remission of sin. There is nothing wrong with water baptism, but no dirty river water has ever saved anyone. Water is only an outward appearance like I explained already. What about those who can not be immersed in water because of Physical ailments does this mean their sins will never be forgiven! One more note is that sometimes the word water in the Bible stands to represent Gods word such as in living water.

Where does "forgiveness of sins" take place with you, Debby?
If I do something to your person and ask "forgiveness"
and you say that you "forgive" me for my action.
Can I count on that forgiveness?
If you decide later to take me to court for recompenses, just how reliable is your word of "forgiveness"?

If you note, Peter, as God's ambassador, says that I have the "PROMISE" of the King to be "added" upon
my baptism in water for the "remission of my sins." (Acts 2:38-47).
I have God's WORD that I am now a child of His. I do not need Spirit baptism to believe this....
It is written!

God's promise is His bond...
I read on this forum of those who say that they are "saved" because they have
"the indwelling Holy Spirit."
Is there a "promise" that one is saved because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

Having the Spirit in our heart does not save...
Our salvation comes from the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross,
where our sins our imputed to Him for righteousness, in the mind of God.
Spirit regeneration is a doctrine that has come from men: Luther, Augustine, Calvin, etc.

Question: Does Paul refer to Spirit baptism when saying that
"if any man be in Christ he is a new creature" (2 Corn, 5:17)?
When does God recognize a sinner as being a "new creation"?
Does this transformation take place in God's mind or the heart of man?
We have a "promised" in Acts 2:38 ff?

If having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is pertinent to ones salvation, why did not Paul use
in defence of his apostleship that he had been baptized with the Holy Spirit?
Note 1 Corinthians 9:1 and 2 Corinthians 12:12.
Not one word about being baptized with the Holy Spirit is mentioned by
Paul the writer of 14 letters in the New Testament. (13 ?)

This forum is saturated with those who claim Holy Spirit baptism,
yet they cannot even agree on Apostolic doctrine or the Second Coming.
Is this an oxymoron or what?



Forgiveness for me started the day I confessed my sins to the Lord and believed in my heart that God indeed raised him from the dead per Romans 10:9, 10. It was a few years later that I got water baptized, but only as an outward appearance as I had already received Christ as my Lord and Savior with the evidence of also receiving the Holy Spirit at the same time I made confession and believed.

My husband and I have had other Christians steal from me and never took them to court as they have already been judged and convicted by God and their forgiveness depends on how they handle what they did between themself and God as I already forgave them even though they never recompensed back to us what they stole. I am quick to forgive as God forgives me. My forgiveness to others is as reliable as Gods forgiveness to all of us.

John baptized with water unto repentance, not causing repentance, but a sign of it. Jesus himself never baptized with water, but with the Spirit, and Christian baptism only came about after the resurrection when Jesus gave the commission to his disciples to go into the whole world and preach the gospel to every creature Matthew 28:19, 20.

From the time of John baptizing Jesus, through the time frame Jesus taught here on earth  before the cross unto the day of Pentecost in Acts Chapter 2 after the Holy Spirit fell on all of them gathered there in the upper room there is no mention of water even in the verses you gave in Acts 2:38-47 as you added the word water. Why do you think Jesus never baptized anyone in water as Gods salvation comes through confession and belief, not water as Peter said to repent and then be baptized with the Holy Spirit after confession is made, Peter 2:38.

Yes there is a promise that we are saved as we are sealed by the Holy Spirit as we are indwelled with the Spirit of God in our hearts, 2Cor 1:22; Eph 1:13; 4:30.

Yes Paul is referring  in 2Cor 5:17 to sin that separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit). We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, Colossians 3:1-17.

1 Cor 9:1 and 2Cor 12:12 Paul was listing his right to be a minister of the word, but yet setting limits to his authority as he was talking to those he was ministering to that the signs of his authority and power only can come by the Spirit of God working through him.

People will always disagree with each other on doctrine by whose doctrine they are believing in and is not a oxymoron, but that of a divided word by how they allow themselves to be taught.


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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #39 on: Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 11:19:12 »



Offline greatdivide46

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #40 on: Sat Jan 07, 2012 - 10:36:21 »
John baptized with water unto repentance, not causing repentance, but a sign of it. Jesus himself never baptized with water, but with the Spirit, and Christian baptism only came about after the resurrection when Jesus gave the commission to his disciples to go into the whole world and preach the gospel to every creature Matthew 28:19, 20.

From the time of John baptizing Jesus, through the time frame Jesus taught here on earth  before the cross unto the day of Pentecost in Acts Chapter 2 after the Holy Spirit fell on all of them gathered there in the upper room there is no mention of water even in the verses you gave in Acts 2:38-47 as you added the word water. Why do you think Jesus never baptized anyone in water as Gods salvation comes through confession and belief, not water as Peter said to repent and then be baptized with the Holy Spirit after confession is made, Peter 2:38.
It is not strictly true that there is no mention of water during this time frame.  Take a look at John 3:5.  Water is certainly mentioned there.  Jesus Himself never baptized anyone, but He Himself was baptized and His disciples certainly baptized people -- even before the events that occurred in Acts 2.  Therefore, to say that Jesus never baptized anyone does not take anything away from the meaning and purpose of biblical baptism.


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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #41 on: Tue Apr 17, 2012 - 19:20:19 »
It is in the Holy Spirit. 


Hi there. I agree that it's not in water, but I disagree that it's "in the Holy Spirit". The one baptism is not IN, but BY the one Spirit into one body.

1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

It is baptism (identification) into Jesus Christ's death.

Romans 6:3-4 KJV Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

It is the ONE baptism of Ephesians 4

Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

It is one of what some call the seven fold unity of the Spirit (listed above) that we are to endevour to keep.

Ephesians 4:1-3 KJV I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.







« Last Edit: Tue Apr 17, 2012 - 19:41:59 by heir »

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #42 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 09:52:44 »
Baptism is in water.
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 09:57:47 by e.r.m. »

Offline Whisper865

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #43 on: Sat Mar 23, 2013 - 22:57:59 »
Don't forget the Baptism of ((FIRE)) Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have refined you in the furnace of suffering

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #44 on: Sat Mar 23, 2013 - 23:14:39 »
Don't forget the Baptism of ((FIRE)) Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have refined you in the furnace of suffering

Refining is not related to the baptism of fire, which is the Holy Spirit's special baptism of empowerment and anointing.

Offline Whisper865

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #45 on: Sun Mar 24, 2013 - 20:49:56 »
I beg to differ

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #46 on: Sun Mar 24, 2013 - 21:02:51 »
I beg to differ

Using Isaiah 48:11, which is God speaking to the Jews, is not an appropriate way to show how God baptizes us today with His power to do the works of Christ.

Isaiah 48:8b-11a
For I know so well what traitors you are.
    You have been rebels from birth.
9 Yet for my own sake and for the honor of my name,
    I will hold back my anger and not wipe you out.
10 I have refined you, but not as silver is refined.
    Rather, I have refined you in the furnace of suffering.
11 I will rescue you for my sake—
    yes, for my own sake!


Offline Advena

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #47 on: Fri May 17, 2013 - 22:43:37 »
Actually there are at ldast 6 different baptisms listed in the NT.

This is an interesting statement, but unfortunately no detail. Can you clarify what the 6 are?

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #48 on: Fri May 17, 2013 - 22:47:27 »
Baptism is in water.
The normative baptism that Paul, Peter, and oh yea, Jesus refer to is in water.

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #49 on: Sat May 18, 2013 - 00:45:51 »
The baptism taught in the New Testament to all believers is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is separate from that of water.

Offline Man_Of_Honor

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #50 on: Sat May 18, 2013 - 10:50:49 »
Actually there are at ldast 6 different baptisms listed in the NT.


This is an interesting statement, but unfortunately no detail. Can you clarify what the 6 are?


http://messianicgentiles.blogspot.com/2007/04/six-baptisms-in-our-bible.html

SIX DOCTRINES OF BAPTISM (MIKVEH)

In the context of the bible, it speaks of six types of baptisms.

1) BAPTISM OF PURIFICATION (CLEANSING)---(Acts 21:23-24, John 11:55, Luke 2:22, Lev. 12:2-4)

2) JOHN THE BAPTIST TYPE BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE--- (Mark 1:4, Acts 1:5, Matt. 3:1-2,11,)

3) THE COMMON (CHRISTIAN) TYPE BAPTISM OF WATER TO BE IDENTIFIED WITH YESHUA (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 36-38, 10:48, 16:33, 19:5, John 14:13). This is the most misunderstood of all baptisms.

4) THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT--- (Acts 1:8)

5) THE BAPTISM OF FIRE---(Matt. 3:11)

6) THE BAPTISM OF SUFFERING--- (Luke 12:50)

Offline Man_Of_Honor

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #51 on: Sat May 18, 2013 - 10:52:01 »
Baptism is in water.
The normative baptism that Paul, Peter, and oh yea, Jesus refer to is in water.

Amen!

Offline Advena

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #52 on: Sat Jun 01, 2013 - 04:44:42 »

In the context of the bible, it speaks of six types of baptisms.

1) BAPTISM OF PURIFICATION (CLEANSING)---(Acts 21:23-24, John 11:55, Luke 2:22, Lev. 12:2-4)

2) JOHN THE BAPTIST TYPE BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE--- (Mark 1:4, Acts 1:5, Matt. 3:1-2,11,)

3) THE COMMON (CHRISTIAN) TYPE BAPTISM OF WATER TO BE IDENTIFIED WITH YESHUA (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 36-38, 10:48, 16:33, 19:5, John 14:13). This is the most misunderstood of all baptisms.

4) THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT--- (Acts 1:8)

5) THE BAPTISM OF FIRE---(Matt. 3:11)

6) THE BAPTISM OF SUFFERING--- (Luke 12:50)

Would you not say that 3 is the successor (i.e. replacement) for 2 and 6 is also just another aspect of 3? Also the same with 4 & 5.

My translation (NLT) refers to 1 simply as "purification ceremony".

Offline Man_Of_Honor

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #53 on: Sat Jun 01, 2013 - 07:16:48 »

In the context of the bible, it speaks of six types of baptisms.

1) BAPTISM OF PURIFICATION (CLEANSING)---(Acts 21:23-24, John 11:55, Luke 2:22, Lev. 12:2-4)

2) JOHN THE BAPTIST TYPE BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE--- (Mark 1:4, Acts 1:5, Matt. 3:1-2,11,)

3) THE COMMON (CHRISTIAN) TYPE BAPTISM OF WATER TO BE IDENTIFIED WITH YESHUA (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 36-38, 10:48, 16:33, 19:5, John 14:13). This is the most misunderstood of all baptisms.

4) THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT--- (Acts 1:8)

5) THE BAPTISM OF FIRE---(Matt. 3:11)

6) THE BAPTISM OF SUFFERING--- (Luke 12:50)

Would you not say that 3 is the successor (i.e. replacement) for 2 and 6 is also just another aspect of 3? Also the same with 4 & 5.

My translation (NLT) refers to 1 simply as "purification ceremony".

Yes, 3 is the successor presently. The one baptism.

I like how it is mentioned that this baptism is the most understood. Considering, the debates we have over this baptism.

Offline Tyler

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #54 on: Tue Jul 16, 2013 - 14:26:05 »
Nope---"water saves." Where? in the mind of God."
The Holy Spirit has never saved anyone. Why? was never his mission.
The death of Jesus on the cross saved all men from the wrath of God.
No one has ever been commanded to be baptized into the Holy Spirit.

Man is a sinner in need of a Savior, not a Holy Ghost experience! This was the reason that Jesus prayed three times in the garden of Gethsemane: "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as you will."
The "cup" was the sins of all mankind!

To accept Jesus' death one MUST be born again.
Where? In the watery grave of H2-o.
If you are so ignorant that you believe Jesus will enter into your heart on the whim of a verbal prayer read from a Baptist tract----- show me chapter and verse.....

Keep in mind, you are not lost in your innards. Man is lost in the mind of God where the plan of salvation originated before the foundation of the world. Prophecy is NOT history in advance!
In Ephesians 1:9, Paul is referring to the apostles ("us") as to whom God "made known the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he has purposed in himself etc."

The only thing any of us know about Jesus Christ comes by revelation from the men who had "looked upon, and their hands have handled of the Word of life" (1 John 1:1)
If you believe this manifestation is referring to you----get over yourself!
"Obey His commandments and know that you are "in him.' (1 John 2:2-5).

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #55 on: Thu Jul 18, 2013 - 12:00:36 »
It is in the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47-48 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" [48] And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

There is the baptism with the Holy Spirit and then there is water baptism in Jesus's name.

They are both documented.

Baptism in Jesus's name for forgiveness of sins Acts 2:38, is in water Acts 10:47-48.
« Last Edit: Thu Jul 18, 2013 - 16:31:40 by e.r.m. »

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #56 on: Thu Jul 18, 2013 - 16:38:47 »

In the context of the bible, it speaks of six types of baptisms.

1) BAPTISM OF PURIFICATION (CLEANSING)---(Acts 21:23-24, John 11:55, Luke 2:22, Lev. 12:2-4)

2) JOHN THE BAPTIST TYPE BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE--- (Mark 1:4, Acts 1:5, Matt. 3:1-2,11,)

3) THE COMMON (CHRISTIAN) TYPE BAPTISM OF WATER TO BE IDENTIFIED WITH YESHUA (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 36-38, 10:48, 16:33, 19:5, John 14:13). This is the most misunderstood of all baptisms.

4) THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT--- (Acts 1:8)

5) THE BAPTISM OF FIRE---(Matt. 3:11)

6) THE BAPTISM OF SUFFERING--- (Luke 12:50)

Would you not say that 3 is the successor (i.e. replacement) for 2 and 6 is also just another aspect of 3? Also the same with 4 & 5.

My translation (NLT) refers to 1 simply as "purification ceremony".

Yes, 3 is the successor presently. The one baptism.

I like how it is mentioned that this baptism is the most understood. Considering, the debates we have over this baptism.
Number three is not primarily an identification with Jesus. Acts 2:38 says baptism in Jesus's name is for forgiveness of sins. That baptism is the replacment for number 2.

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #57 on: Sat Jan 10, 2015 - 00:28:43 »
Jesus was baptized in water as an example for us. And yes, there is also the baptism in the Holy Spirit, which is a further step allowing you to grow in a special way. Both are biblical. Why argue on this point?

Offline Alan

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #58 on: Sat Jan 10, 2015 - 06:29:49 »
Jesus was baptized in water as an example for us. And yes, there is also the baptism in the Holy Spirit, which is a further step allowing you to grow in a special way. Both are biblical. Why argue on this point?
The argument has never been that we should not be baptized in water, but that water baptism equates to salvation.

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #59 on: Sat Jan 10, 2015 - 06:52:21 »
Jesus was baptized in water as an example for us. And yes, there is also the baptism in the Holy Spirit, which is a further step allowing you to grow in a special way. Both are biblical. Why argue on this point?
The argument has never been that we should not be baptized in water, but that water baptism equates to salvation.

I don't think the argument has ever been that water baptism equates to salvation.  But certain things are pretty clear about water baptism.  In Acts 2:38 it says that, having believed and upon repentance, it is in water baptism that sins are forgiven and the gift of the Holy Spirit is received.  That is not a bad description of salvation.  So that while water baptism doesn't equate to salvation, it is pretty clear that salvation is received in baptism.  Whatever else you might think about it, it is impossible to deny the plain teaching there.

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #60 on: Mon Jan 19, 2015 - 05:33:00 »
Act 2:38  Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

"baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" is not baptized in water. It is "baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins". Forgiveness of sin is ONLY received "in the Name of Jesus".

Just so, the "gift of the Holy Spirit" is ONLY received "in the Name of Jesus Christ" and never in water.

Water is required to be baptized with by the NOVICES, the IGNORANT and the AUDACIOUS like the Ethiopian who usurped power and authority and prescribed to the Church how things should be done, THEIR WAY and not God's way.


 

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #61 on: Mon Jan 19, 2015 - 05:40:42 »
<<<The normative baptism that Paul, Peter, and oh yea, Jesus refer to is in water.>>>

It's a farce until you have posted the actual Scriptures.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #62 on: Mon Jan 19, 2015 - 06:04:33 »
"baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" is not baptized in water.

That is a blanket statement for which there is no biblical support.  It comes purely from you own personal interpretation.  But I am curious, in Matthew 28:19-20, Jesus commanded that the apostles baptize and teach.  Specifically He commanded that they baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Given your interpretation, how exactly did they go about fulfilling that command?  What was the actual procedure?

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #63 on: Mon Jan 19, 2015 - 06:31:25 »
<<<That is a blanket statement for which there is no biblical support. >>>

No, I made that statement blank from the Bible. Nothing blanketed in it.

And if you wanted to know how Jesus <<<Specifically commanded that they baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit>>>, then READ again with nothing (like bias) blanketing your sight.

Then, <<<Given [my] interpretation, how exactly did they go about fulfilling that command?>>>

No. Forget my, <<interpretation>>. Jesus told his disciples Himself, looking them straight in the EYE with unblanketed EYE, to “Go, and PROCLAIM the GOSPEL and TEACH them all I have taught you.” That, <<was the actual procedure>>; nothing of water or whatever else necessary to be baptised in or with or by, besides.

« Last Edit: Mon Jan 19, 2015 - 06:35:28 by Gerhard Ebersöhn »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #64 on: Mon Jan 19, 2015 - 06:52:05 »
<<<That is a blanket statement for which there is no biblical support. >>>

No, I made that statement blank from the Bible. Nothing blanketed in it.

And if you wanted to know how Jesus <<<Specifically commanded that they baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit>>>, then READ again with nothing (like bias) blanketing your sight.

Then, <<<Given [my] interpretation, how exactly did they go about fulfilling that command?>>>

No. Forget my, <<interpretation>>. Jesus told his disciples Himself, looking them straight in the EYE with unblanketed EYE, to “Go, and PROCLAIM the GOSPEL and TEACH them all I have taught you.” That, <<was the actual procedure>>; nothing of water or whatever else necessary to be baptised in or with or by, besides.



You didn't answer my question.  But then I am not surprised.  But I will ask again.  Jesus commanded that they "baptize in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit".  How did they do that.  Please explain the procedure they used in doing as they were commanded.

Offline Red Baker

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #65 on: Mon Jan 19, 2015 - 07:10:18 »
Water is required to be baptized with by the NOVICES, the IGNORANT and the AUDACIOUS like the Ethiopian who usurped power and authority and prescribed to the Church how things should be done, THEIR WAY and not God's way.

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard by people who profess to believe the scriptures!  WHY was Jesus Baptized? Was it because he  was one of the NOVICES, the IGNORANT and the AUDACIOUS?

Baptism in water was the only true baptism that the apostles did and preached that should be done; to believe otherwise, is to live in la, la land~or, their own little world where words have no meaning, but the ones that they want them to mean. 
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 19, 2015 - 07:13:49 by Red Baker »

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #66 on: Tue Jan 20, 2015 - 01:11:57 »
<<<How did they do that.>>>

Thus:

1) "GO ye therefore" i.e., "GO", to baptise,

2) "and TEACH all nations" i.e., baptise them with "TEACHING",

3) "in the NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT", i.e., baptise them "IN THE NAME".

Bury them as it were in the WORD of God the WORDS of Jesus, COVER them over with and wrap them in "THE NAME" --- There's the CRUX of baptism --- it is done and complete, "IN THE NAME".

Those words and that NAME are found in one place only: In the Scriptures the Word of God.

IMMERSED in the SCRIPTURES the Word the apostles were to PROCLAIM and SPREAD all over the world and baptise all believers in— THAT was and is and shall be the <<procedure>>.

Friend, in your closet - in your study and prayer room immersed fully in God's Word in prayer and praise to God only and before the eyes of HIM alone, is where you are BORN AGAIN IN THE BAPTISM OF JESUS CHRIST. In the deepest corners of your heart and mind.

Peter declared “Water cannot prevent these to be baptised!” But out of darkest and most DEAD of places was water baptism forced upon true Christianity.
Now the Israel of God was "brought forth out" by the Spirit of the Almighty. In Egypt "there are no graves"; but the LORD carried Israel “on everlasting armes under” through the depths of death DRY-FOOT, and they were "brought IN into the land the LORD sware" having touched no water.

So were the eight in the days of Noah saved as through but touching no water in the sanctuary of the ark.









« Last Edit: Tue Jan 20, 2015 - 01:15:35 by Gerhard Ebersöhn »

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #67 on: Tue Jan 20, 2015 - 01:50:49 »
<<<This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard by people who profess to believe the scriptures!  WHY was Jesus Baptized? Was it because he  was one of the NOVICES, the IGNORANT and the AUDACIOUS?
Baptism in water was the only true baptism that the apostles did and preached that should be done; to believe otherwise, is to live in la, la land~or, their own little world where words have no meaning, but the ones that they want them to mean.
>>>

"For John literally baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with / in the Holy Spirit";

"The word of the Lord... John literally baptized with / in water; but you shall be baptised with / in the Holy Spirit.”

What (am) I that I could withstand God?



Offline 4WD

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #68 on: Tue Jan 20, 2015 - 05:50:58 »
I have seen some real distortions in the interpretation of Scripture in my lifetime, but you, Mr. Ebersöhn, really take the prize.  I am not sure why you even bother reading the Bible.  Just start from scratch and make it up.  It would be a lot easier and would probably be about as close to the truth. 

Offline AnthonyB

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Re: Baptism is not in water
« Reply #69 on: Mon Jan 26, 2015 - 17:09:17 »
Gerhard,


I would be interested to understand how you read

1Cor 1:14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Here Paul to me clearly distinguishes baptism from "preaching the gospel"?