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Offline sanhedrin

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How can one really be saved?
« on: Sat Apr 28, 2012 - 23:56:41 »
There is no ending debate with respect to the topic of salvation, never at all. As to how our souls can really attain it, what does Jesus literally mean with these statements found in the book of Matthew;

 ::smile::Mat 11:28  Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29  Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


Who would like to share his thoughts?


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How can one really be saved?
« on: Sat Apr 28, 2012 - 23:56:41 »

larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #1 on: Sun Apr 29, 2012 - 00:58:49 »
Having read some of your previous posts to achieve an understanding of your question; it appears you have little respect to learning from pastors for instance. When you say we should learn from God if I understand you rightly, are you speaking of the Spirit of Truth which proceeds from the Father, and testifies of Jesus Who will guide us into all truth?

And then if pastors are not trusted, why would you trust us, or we you? I personally read in 2 Timothy 3:16 that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 

Matthew 28:28  Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. I'll just give a shot at this. Jesus came to His own that were under law; the ministration of death and there were indeed burdensome. No one but Jesus ever satisfied the requirements of them.

Matthew 28:29  Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Matthew 28:30  For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Now we must ask what new thing Jesus offered to ease their load. Even though grace was always manifest even from the time skins God clothed Adam and Eve with skins to cover them, most Judizers didn't accept the gift God our Father was offering them in Jesus' sacrifice. WHAT, I can be saved by believing on Jesus instead of my works?

Titus 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us . . Ephesians 2:8-9  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. 9  Not of works, lest any man should boast. Before going further, I'll wait to see where you're wanting to go with this. Thanks.

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #1 on: Sun Apr 29, 2012 - 00:58:49 »

GaryMac

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #2 on: Sun Apr 29, 2012 - 01:04:04 »
Having read some of your previous posts to achieve an understanding of your question; it appears you have little respect to learning from pastors for instance. When you say we should learn from God if I understand you rightly, are you speaking of the Spirit of Truth which proceeds from the Father, and testifies of Jesus Who will guide us into all truth?

And then if pastors are not trusted, why would you trust us, or we you? I personally read in 2 Timothy 3:16 that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 

Matthew 28:28  Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. I'll just give a shot at this. Jesus came to His own that were under law; the ministration of death and there were indeed burdensome. No one but Jesus ever satisfied the requirements of them.

Matthew 28:29  Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Matthew 28:30  For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Now we must ask what new thing Jesus offered to ease their load. Even though grace was always manifest even from the time skins God clothed Adam and Eve with skins to cover them, most Judizers didn't accept the gift God our Father was offering them in Jesus' sacrifice. WHAT, I can be saved by believing on Jesus instead of my works?

Titus 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us . . Ephesians 2:8-9  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. 9  Not of works, lest any man should boast. Before going further, I'll wait to see where you're wanting to go with this. Thanks.

What can a pastor teach me that Christ in me cant teach me Himself?  If you have the same Spirit in you Jesus had in him, and have His mind, the mind of Christ, and walk in the same light as He walks in, what makes a pastor above Him that Christ in me cant give me?

Gary

larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #3 on: Sun Apr 29, 2012 - 01:17:40 »

What can a pastor teach me that Christ in me cant teach me Himself?  If you have the same Spirit in you Jesus had in him, and have His mind, the mind of Christ, and walk in the same light as He walks in, what makes a pastor above Him that Christ in me cant give me?


Hi Gary, and I would just ask what you think of scripture? Pertaining to the church we read in Ephesians 4:11,  And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers. Do you think God had purpose in this? Thanks.

GaryMac

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Apr 29, 2012 - 20:36:57 »

What can a pastor teach me that Christ in me cant teach me Himself?  If you have the same Spirit in you Jesus had in him, and have His mind, the mind of Christ, and walk in the same light as He walks in, what makes a pastor above Him that Christ in me cant give me?


Hi Gary, and I would just ask what you think of scripture? Pertaining to the church we read in Ephesians 4:11,  And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers. Do you think God had purpose in this? Thanks.

Hi Larry -- Absolutely, how will one know of Christ least he have someone present Him to them?  But a prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher, cannot give you the Christ, all they can do is point to the way. Even Jesus couldn’t give to you the Christ; he came not to save you but that ye might be saved. Salvation is Gods Spirit manifest in your mortal flesh and no man can give that to you --  it only comes from God Himself. He in you and you in Him as one, anointed of God who is the Christ in you. 

The legal side of our churches today are based on laws for tradition which dictate who their god is and what we can expect of him formed out of opinions. But if one has Gods Spirit in them as Jesus had Gods Spirit in them, he needs no man tell him anything.


John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give [it] you.


Gary

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Apr 29, 2012 - 20:36:57 »



larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #5 on: Sun Apr 29, 2012 - 21:14:01 »

What can a pastor teach me that Christ in me cant teach me Himself?  If you have the same Spirit in you Jesus had in him, and have His mind, the mind of Christ, and walk in the same light as He walks in, what makes a pastor above Him that Christ in me cant give me?


Hi Gary, and I would just ask what you think of scripture? Pertaining to the church we read in Ephesians 4:11,  And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers. Do you think God had purpose in this? Thanks.

Hi Larry -- Absolutely, how will one know of Christ least he have someone present Him to them?  But a prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher, cannot give you the Christ, all they can do is point to the way. Even Jesus couldn’t give to you the Christ; he came not to save you but that ye might be saved. Salvation is Gods Spirit manifest in your mortal flesh and no man can give that to you --  it only comes from God Himself. He in you and you in Him as one, anointed of God who is the Christ in you. 

The legal side of our churches today are based on laws for tradition which dictate who their god is and what we can expect of him formed out of opinions. But if one has Gods Spirit in them as Jesus had Gods Spirit in them, he needs no man tell him anything.


John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give [it] you.


Gary



Hi Gary, I reckon I would have to say that God gave me a measure of faith, I believed God, and by hearing and hearing by the word of God it has increased. As to how this came to be, one sowed, another watered, and God gave the increase.

Again, it is the Spirit of truth that takes all that the Son has and makes them known unto me that I will lack in nothing. I'm still not sure this is what you're getting at.

GaryMac

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #6 on: Mon Apr 30, 2012 - 20:08:17 »

What can a pastor teach me that Christ in me cant teach me Himself?  If you have the same Spirit in you Jesus had in him, and have His mind, the mind of Christ, and walk in the same light as He walks in, what makes a pastor above Him that Christ in me cant give me?


Hi Gary, and I would just ask what you think of scripture? Pertaining to the church we read in Ephesians 4:11,  And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers. Do you think God had purpose in this? Thanks.

Hi Larry -- Absolutely, how will one know of Christ least he have someone present Him to them?  But a prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher, cannot give you the Christ, all they can do is point to the way. Even Jesus couldn’t give to you the Christ; he came not to save you but that ye might be saved. Salvation is Gods Spirit manifest in your mortal flesh and no man can give that to you --  it only comes from God Himself. He in you and you in Him as one, anointed of God who is the Christ in you. 

The legal side of our churches today are based on laws for tradition which dictate who their god is and what we can expect of him formed out of opinions. But if one has Gods Spirit in them as Jesus had Gods Spirit in them, he needs no man tell him anything.


John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give [it] you.


Gary



Hi Gary, I reckon I would have to say that God gave me a measure of faith, I believed God, and by hearing and hearing by the word of God it has increased. As to how this came to be, one sowed, another watered, and God gave the increase.

Again, it is the Spirit of truth that takes all that the Son has and makes them known unto me that I will lack in nothing. I'm still not sure this is what you're getting at.


I agree, the son is reveald in us from the Father Himself. we are His son and noting is hidden from us, all the mysteries revealed, nothing lacking. For we have the mind of Christ.

Gary

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #7 on: Mon Apr 30, 2012 - 22:15:11 »
Having read some of your previous posts to achieve an understanding of your question; it appears you have little respect to learning from pastors for instance.
Since our souls are at stake in this issue, we have to be really careful in taking anything that is truly essential to our salvation. To whom shall we have to learn and to get the truth from if we have to carefully weigh these statements from the Lord God Jesus Christ;

 Mat 11:28  Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29  Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


 What does Jesus literally mean with His "come unto me, all ye.............," how do (you think) we have to respond, in thoughts and in deeds/acts, to Jesus today in our time?

Joh 10:9  I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 10:14  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.


What does Jesus literally mean with His "by me if any man enter in" and "I am the good shepherd" and "... am known of mine," did we take time to ask Jesus today how He truly wants us to respond to Him by those phrases?

When you say we should learn from God if I understand you rightly, are you speaking of the Spirit of Truth which proceeds from the Father, and testifies of Jesus Who will guide us into all truth?
I am speaking of the Lord God himself who spoke to Moses in Mt. Sinai and, also, to Paul on his way to Damascus, no other else.

And then if pastors are not trusted, why would you trust us, or we you?
There is only One to be trusted with respect to our salvation and He is no other but the Almighty Lord God of all ages. It is not me neither you nor they since we are only created beings of God.

I personally read in 2 Timothy 3:16 that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 
But Jesus tells us this thing about the scriptures;

 Joh 5:39  Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life : and they are they which testify of me.

Whom shall we trust to if we want to be saved?

Matthew 28:28  Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. I'll just give a shot at this. Jesus came to His own that were under law; the ministration of death and there were indeed burdensome. No one but Jesus ever satisfied the requirements of them.
Jesus said "all ye that.....," there is no mention there of such phrase "under the law," how did you come up to that conclusion?

Matthew 28:29  Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matthew 28:30  For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Now we must ask what new thing Jesus offered to ease their load. Even though grace was always manifest even from the time skins God clothed Adam and Eve with skins to cover them, most Judizers didn't accept the gift God our Father was offering them in Jesus' sacrifice. WHAT, I can be saved by believing on Jesus instead of my works?
Why do you have to go that far when Jesus did not even mention of grace in that part, seem to me that you overlook the message Jesus wants us all to come to Him first, by any means, what do you say? Haven't you realized that when we literally come to Jesus first Jesus will surely and literally respond to us, but of course, in His own ways?

Titus 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us . . Ephesians 2:8-9  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. 9  Not of works, lest any man should boast. Before going further, I'll wait to see where you're wanting to go with this. Thanks.
Peanuts are peanuts while pecans are pecans, be sure not to mix one from the other if we want pure pecans.

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #8 on: Mon Apr 30, 2012 - 22:20:43 »
What can a pastor teach me that Christ in me cant teach me Himself?
Nice point but how sure are you that Christ is really in you, what do you have from Christ that you can testify to others so that others may also come to Jesus for same?

If you have the same Spirit in you Jesus had in him, and have His mind, the mind of Christ, and walk in the same light as He walks in, what makes a pastor above Him that Christ in me cant give me?

Gary
How can we remove the "if" here and arrive at certainty? "If" is seem to be a common thing to all denominations, isn't it?

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #9 on: Mon Apr 30, 2012 - 22:28:05 »
Hi Gary, and I would just ask what you think of scripture?

Joh 5:39  Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Taking the context from the Lord's statement, scriptures are they that testify of the Lord Jesus Christ, plain and simple definition.

Taking the context from the Lord's statement, scriptures are they that testify of the Lord, plain and simple definition.
 Pertaining to the church we read in Ephesians 4:11,  And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers. Do you think God had purpose in this? Thanks.[/size]
That is the supposed to be statement and understanding of Paul, never did Jesus say that to anyone among His disciples, apostles and followers, did He? To whom do you dedicate your service to for the salvation of your soul?

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #10 on: Mon Apr 30, 2012 - 22:54:09 »
Hi Larry -- Absolutely, how will one know of Christ least he have someone present Him to them?
What kind of faith do we have in Christ if we will think the same way you did here? Have you not read from the scriptures, "Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen," don't you acknowledge Jesus is here with us even today and even unto the end, why the need of someone present when Jesus came in or manifested in the flesh?

Quote from: GaryMac
But a prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher, cannot give you the Christ, all they can do is point to the way.
"Is point to the way or point us all to Jesus," that is the proper thing for all bible readers to do and no one is needed to become prophet or pastor because only Jesus is the Good Pastor of all. Jesus will teach us the way to our salvation when we come to Him, no one from amongst us will have to teach his brothers or his sisters since the Lord did not designate anyone to teach the manner on how to be saved, did he?

Quote from: GaryMac
Even Jesus couldn’t give to you the Christ; he came not to save you but that ye might be saved.
How can that be when Jesus is the Christ? Maybe you are referring to the flesh born out of Mary, the flesh who suffered death on the cross, aren't you? Jesus the Christ only lived in to that flesh for more or less 33 years and that flesh is not the Lord God Jesus per se.

Quote from: GaryMac
Salvation is Gods Spirit manifest in your mortal flesh and no man can give that to you --  it only comes from God Himself. He in you and you in Him as one, anointed of God who is the Christ in you. 

The legal side of our churches today are based on laws for tradition which dictate who their god is and what we can expect of him formed out of opinions. But if one has Gods Spirit in them as Jesus had Gods Spirit in them, he needs no man tell him anything.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give [it] you. Gary
Those are biblical thoughts, why don't we turn to Godlical thoughts which we can only get from Jesus Christ Himself?

larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #11 on: Tue May 01, 2012 - 01:43:18 »
I have faith to believe this. Faith was provisional. Once we receive Christ we have been saved from the penalty of sin. We are being saved from the corruption of sin as we walk with Christ. We will be saved from the presence of sin when we are face to face with our Lord.

We sing a song; "Faith is the victory that overcomes the world." That is based on 1 John 5:4-5  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

John 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on Him (Our Father) that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. How do I know I am saved? Faith.

Romans 10:13-14  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? Again it is through faith. 

Do I believe that Jesus is God come in the flesh; Emanuel? Yes. Do I believe The Holy Spirit is God leading me into all truth? Yes. Do I believe there is another name given under heaven by which we must be saved other than Jesus? No. 

Do I remain dedicated to studying to show myself approved unto God? Yes, and what other than the bible would I seek? Do I listen to men who have dedicated their lives to preaching the word? Yes, and take from them precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little and attempt to rightly divide the word of truth.

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #12 on: Tue May 01, 2012 - 10:53:10 »
Do I remain dedicated to studying to show myself approved unto God? Yes,
But under whose tutelage do you dedicate yourself in studying your approval unto God? How?

and what other than the bible would I seek?
What would that be, other than the bible, that you would seek, is there any?

Do I listen to men who have dedicated their lives to preaching the word? Yes, and take from them precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little and attempt to rightly divide the word of truth.
Jer 17:5  Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #13 on: Tue May 01, 2012 - 11:19:21 »

Jer 17:5  Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.


Your very user name is suggestive of assembly or council. Was not Paul set as an example to follow with the revelation from Jesus he had been given? Should we not seek his advice? He traveled to many localities giving it out. Do you believe different gifts are given by the Holy Spirit to different members of the body of Christ to edify, and what would be the need if indeed all received all gifts? Do you think the Holy Spirit can work in certain ones today toward me for good?

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #14 on: Tue May 01, 2012 - 11:41:33 »
Your very user name is suggestive of assembly or council. Was not Paul set as an example to follow with the revelation from Jesus he had been given? Should we not seek his advice?
Paul is long time dead, how can we seek his advice today?
 
He traveled to many localities giving it out. Do you believe different gifts are given by the Holy Spirit to different members of the body of Christ to edify,
I do not know if you have really experienced things from the HS, do you have any proof that the HS truly gives different gifts to the believers today?

 
and what would be the need if indeed all received all gifts?
Is there really a need for those gifts? On the second thought, does the HS gives such gifts today?

Do you think the Holy Spirit can work in certain ones today toward me for good?
All I know and have come to experience is that the Lord Jesus Christ himself, not the HS, is the One who teach/work for anyone to know how he or she will be saved.

larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #15 on: Tue May 01, 2012 - 12:35:27 »
Your very user name is suggestive of assembly or council. Was not Paul set as an example to follow with the revelation from Jesus he had been given? Should we not seek his advice?

Paul is long time dead, how can we seek his advice today?

John 16:13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. Was this limited to the apostles? Can the Holy Spirit (God) use the scripture, and others to expound the word such as preachers and teachers? Again in all things, faith is the victory. God said it, the Holy Spirit led me, and by faith I claim it; I am saved.

He traveled to many localities giving it out. Do you believe different gifts are given by the Holy Spirit to different members of the body of Christ to edify,

I do not know if you have really experienced things from the HS, do you have any proof that the HS truly gives different gifts to the believers today?

I very much have experienced gifts from the Holy Spirit. I saw a child raised from the dead, a friend I took to church immediately healed of Rheumatoid Arthritis before my eyes, many through prayer healed, I've spoke in tongues, and my faith is increased. God has been altogether wonderful to me; I was dead and now I am alive as Christ liveth in me, and as Romans 8:38-39 says: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Do you have that assurance of truth given you by the Holy Spirit? I am saved!

And what would be the need if indeed all received all gifts?

Is there really a need for those gifts? On the second thought, does the HS gives such gifts today?

My, my, my; how did you come to know God? Through your reckoning? Do you without a doubt know you're saved and going to spend eternity with our LORD? If so, it had to come as the result of the measure of faith given you to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Do you think the Holy Spirit can work in certain ones today toward me for good?

All I know and have come to experience is that the Lord Jesus Christ himself, not the HS, is the One who teach/work for anyone to know how he or she will be saved.

If the Holy Spirit (God) led those of the past into all truth, why would that change for today?

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #16 on: Tue May 01, 2012 - 21:37:11 »
John 16:13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. Was this limited to the apostles?
Was Paul spoken to by the HS or,  by the Lord God Jesus Christ himself, which is which? Who among the apostles, especially John who authored the book of Revelation, were shown by the HS of things to come to this world, was there any? Who did show things to come to John in the book of the Revelation, was it the HS or was it the Lord God Jesus Christ himself?

Jesus Christ is not limited to the apostles so is the outpouring of the HS. The believers of Christ are just being filled by the HS so that they (the believers of Christ) can feel the physical manifestation and responses of the Lord Jesus Christ to them.

Can the Holy Spirit (God) use the scripture, and others to expound the word such as preachers and teachers?
No, the HS does not teach nor speak to a believers or to the believers of the Lord, He (HS) is being sent to fill them (believers). It is the Lord God Jesus Christ himself who speaks and teaches the believers of God - Him only being the Good Shepherd of all.

 
Again in all things, faith is the victory. God said it, the Holy Spirit led me, and by faith I claim it; I am saved.
You have read it from the bible and you take it for yourself and believe same to be true to you. However, it is different when you literally come and call on to Jesus in the reality of His existence since in this way Jesus will literally come/respond to you in His own ways and you can hear Him speak  (this is without visibly seeing Jesus in His own and true image) to you and it is from here where faith in Jesus will emerge and sprout in you.


I very much have experienced gifts from the Holy Spirit. I saw a child raised from the dead, a friend I took to church immediately healed of Rheumatoid Arthritis before my eyes, many through prayer healed, I've spoke in tongues, and my faith is increased. God has been altogether wonderful to me; I was dead and now I am alive as Christ liveth in me, and as Romans 8:38-39 says: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Do you have that assurance of truth given you by the Holy Spirit? I am saved!
Have you seen Benny Hinn performed healing sessions in his congregations, how many claimed to be healed? Have you seen healing sessions in Catholic congregation? Have you seen their so called power of God and the HS when they were struck down by the instant wave of force which seemed to come from the hands of those preachers of different denominations? Can you tell the difference of what you are saying here from what they have in their various congregations considering they are not one in Christ? If you will notice, they are all taken from the bible and assume same to be true to them and you, where now is the reality of the existence of God in our life should what you are claiming is the genuine way? Is the bible the Lord God Jesus Christ?

My, my, my; how did you come to know God?
The Lord God Jesus Christ came to speak to us in His own ways one night when my whole family called on in Him deeply in the midst of our trial which no men can resolve or put an end to, it was in that moment that He, the Lord God, began to speak to us as He then spoke to Moses and to Paul. That is the way I can tell you how we came to know God.

Through your reckoning?
It is through personal revelation (experience) from the Lord Jesus, not through reading and understanding of the bible.

Do you without a doubt know you're saved and going to spend eternity with our LORD?
It is without doubt that I heard from the Lord God Jesus Christ that He gave us salvation and eternal life as a result of our acknowledgement of His own coming to our life through His own ways, but the Lord said we have to maintain and keep that salvation and eternal life He gave to us by simply following all that He will instruct and command us to do in our lives till the end of it.

 
If so, it had to come as the result of the measure of faith given you to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Salvation and eternal life is to be maintained by those to whom the Lord Jesus rewarded same and it is in this manner that the reality of the existence of the Lord will be continuously encountered by Godlical Christians.

If the Holy Spirit (God) led those of the past into all truth, why would that change for today?
It is the understanding of those who read and expound the bible that only say the HS teaches and speaks to the believers but, in truth and in fact, it is the Lord God Jesus Christ himself, not the HS, who truly speaks and teaches, in all ages, those who truly seek Him in the reality of His existence.

larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #17 on: Tue May 01, 2012 - 23:35:14 »
Oh no, the things I have experienced were very real, and you just can't talk me out of that. I imagine I'm through with this thread.

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #18 on: Wed May 02, 2012 - 01:41:03 »
Oh no, the things I have experienced were very real, and you just can't talk me out of that. I imagine I'm through with this thread.
So, what exactly did the Lord God tell you on how can one be saved from the eternal torments in hell?




larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #19 on: Wed May 02, 2012 - 01:59:53 »


Oh no, the things I have experienced were very real, and you just can't talk me out of that. I imagine I'm through with this thread.




So, what exactly did the Lord God tell you on how can one be saved from the eternal torments in hell?



Salvation with Security - Part One   

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/salvation-with-security-part-one/msg594337/#msg594337

Salvation with Security - Part Two

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/salvation-with-security-part-two/msg594338/#msg594338

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #20 on: Wed May 02, 2012 - 10:26:18 »
Salvation with Security - Part One   

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/salvation-with-security-part-one/msg594337/#msg594337

Salvation with Security - Part Two

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/salvation-with-security-part-two/msg594338/#msg594338

Those things above are just your own explanation and understanding of bible verses that you gathered, there is nothing there that tells us the Lord God Jesus Christ taught you the way to your salvation. Personal experience with the Lord is not the same as reading and understanding the bible. The bible is not the Lord God Jesus Christ.

larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #21 on: Wed May 02, 2012 - 10:42:39 »
Salvation with Security - Part One   

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/salvation-with-security-part-one/msg594337/#msg594337

Salvation with Security - Part Two

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/salvation-with-security-part-two/msg594338/#msg594338

Those things above are just your own explanation and understanding of bible verses that you gathered, there is nothing there that tells us the Lord God Jesus Christ taught you the way to your salvation. Personal experience with the Lord is not the same as reading and understanding the bible. The bible is not the Lord God Jesus Christ.


God gave me the measure of faith to believe what I received from THE WORD. John 1:1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.. I do not know if I said this before, but to me as an old hymn goes: "God said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me."

I normally find that those that do not believe or realize these things do not reveal what type of church they attend; do you have those reservations? Thanks.

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #22 on: Wed May 02, 2012 - 10:52:46 »
God gave me the measure of faith to believe what I received from THE WORD. John 1:1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.. I do not know if I said this before, but to me as an old hymn goes: "God said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me."
Larry, the bible verse that you read is not the Lord God. You are only reading and understanding from the bible by what you are saying in the above. It is different when you directly hear something from the Lord God who is alive and real. Did you really encounter and hear God talk to you as He did to MOses then?

I normally find that those that do not believe or realize these things do not reveal what type of church they attend; do you have those reservations? Thanks.
I do not have any reservation because I am sure that I am under the direct tutelage of the real and alive God Jesus Christ. It i from HIm that I learned that we have to come to Him first so that He, in return, can come to us and talk to us being the Good Shepherd of all.

Offline Thankfulldad

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #23 on: Wed May 02, 2012 - 11:09:42 »
Salvation with Security - Part One   

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/salvation-with-security-part-one/msg594337/#msg594337

Salvation with Security - Part Two

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/salvation-with-security-part-two/msg594338/#msg594338

Those things above are just your own explanation and understanding of bible verses that you gathered, there is nothing there that tells us the Lord God Jesus Christ taught you the way to your salvation. Personal experience with the Lord is not the same as reading and understanding the bible. The bible is not the Lord God Jesus Christ.


Has anything within this personal experience with Jesus...and what He has taught you contradict the Bible?

larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #24 on: Wed May 02, 2012 - 11:11:19 »

Did you really encounter and hear God talk to you as He did to MOses then?


No I did not physically hear a voice from a bush. I came to know God by believing the one that sowed, the one that watered, and God giving the increase to the word given me. I believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. To hear is not always audible, but again I reckon we're coming to an impasse. I will one last time attempt to understand what doctrines you profess by asking what type church you attend if any. Also, do you recognize God as being a trinity?  For some reason I detect Jesus Only or Holiness thinking.

 

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #25 on: Thu May 03, 2012 - 22:49:43 »
Has anything within this personal experience with Jesus...and what He has taught you contradict the Bible?
Ours is personal encounter with Jesus in His own way as Paul encountered Him too in his way to Damascus. The Lord Jesus is not the bible and if you find what I learned from the Lord contrary to the bible, it is your own perception. What is worse is when any teaching contradicts what Jesus (in the reality of His existence) teaches today.


Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #26 on: Thu May 03, 2012 - 23:09:51 »
I will one last time attempt to understand what doctrines you profess by asking what type church you attend if any.
If you are asking of a denominational church, I was a former Catholic turned to born again Christian and later in 2001 when we encountered the Lord God Jesus like Paul did (though ours is not in Damascus but in the Philippines), I am now a Godlical Christian under the fold of Jesus Christ in the reality of His existence. The Lord Jesus Christ is our Good Shepherd/Pastor and we are directly under His tutelage.

Also, do you recognize God as being a trinity?  For some reason I detect Jesus Only or Holiness thinking.[/size] 

Here is how the Lord Jesus introduced himself to us; He says:

English Translation:

All of you who have ears, do listen. I Am your Lord God, to whom will you be afraid of? I, as the Almighty One, to whom will you be frightened with? Keep in your mind that if I Am the One beside you, you have nothing to fear of, you have nothing to worry about because I Am the One to get you out of any tragedy should you put your trust in Me and if you will treat Me as your salvation and eternal life. Being your Lord that you will only worship and nothing more, the only One God who is existing in the whole of the heaven, the whole of the earth, and the whole of the universe either. I who created all things, I who give life to you, to whom will you come with? If not to Me you have no other to come with.

Keep in your mind that the everlasting life and your salvation are in my hands. If you want to be saved, come and get nigh with Me. If you want eternal life, come and call on to Me. Put your trust in Me because if you fail to do this thing, you have no salvation and eternal life. You have nowhere to go except tragedy and tribulation. Because if you will get nigh with Me, you will attain nothing more, but peace, peace that you will attain if you will put your trust in Me, if you will trust Me with all your heart and with all your love. You will love Me with all your love and you will worship no other, but only Me, I your only One Lord.

Keep in your mind that at all times you need help, I am just beside you, though if you are with Me or not, I Am just beside you illuminating your way so that you can see the light much more that you can see the way leading to the kingdom of heaven if you go back to Me, refrain from your evil ways and face my footprints and follow the light of the world. Keep in your mind that I Am your Jealous Lord God, hence, you have no other to worship, but only Me. You have no other to call to in time of your needs except my name and I will take you out wherever you are and even a tiny scar you will not get if it is My will.

Keep in your mind that I Am the keeper of your life and your life is dependent on Me. Keep in your mind that if at first you are not with Me, there is a demon hovering around you to tempt you, this will be doubled if you place yourself in Me. If there were three demons with you at first, these will become more than ten once you placed yourself in Me because they will pull you away for you to be led astray of the way. Keep in your mind that I Am always with you, in the same way that all of you are with Me and all of you who will call on to Me in the right way I do hereby choose you from this world. I do hereby choose you to spread my Holy Word. Go ye and make all nations My followers and disciples and I Am baptizing you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Keep in your mind that if at first you are in alliance with this world, when you place yourself in Me, you will be hated by this world because you do not belong to the world anymore, but rather I am choosing you in this world to spread my Holy Word. Keep in your mind that in all the things that you will do, I Am just behind you. Keep in your mind that in every move you make, in every whisper of your heart, in every shout of your emotion, hereby do I hear always, hence, you have nothing to hide, not even those that you do not move with your mouth, I will know them. And keep in your mind that no other will be saved in the world except those people who are loyal to Me, who are calling to Me, who are following the will of My Father, following My will, following my commands, worship no other but Me, putting into practice all my commandments true to their will and this My church, the Church of Christ. .

Not that anyone will be saved if you are within My Church which they call today Church of Christ, but the truth with this, this only belongs to men. Keep in your mind that My Church is not boastful, preaching that they are the only ones who will be saved, but rather My Church is spreading salvation, not spreading that they are the only ones who will be saved. The duty of My Church is to spread My Holy Word, to guide people who go astray of the way and worship none other, but I, your Almighty Lord God.

Keep in your mind that with Me, nothing is impossible, hence, whatever you will ask which to you is impossible, but same will be for your goodness sake, I will not be selfish to you. I will not be selfish to what you are asking for. And keep in your mind that in My Church, no one among mankind will stand up to explain the holy scriptures or to guide people that they will be explaining and they will be acting being a pastor because in My Church, I Am the only Pastor who will stand up in front of you. Keep in your mind that the two or three conversing about Myself without any debate, I Am in the midst of them.

Keep in your mind that in My Ministry or in My Church, all of you are equal with each other, none is above and none is below, none is rich and none is poor, none is short and none is tall, none is ill and none is healthy, all of you are at par with each other. If anyhow you are with impairment, you are still at same level with those who are without impairment because all of you are already healed spiritually. Because what you are feeling are only in flesh

I Am the Pastor. I Am the Good Pastor. Keep in your mind that there are no others who will teach you except Me. If ever that you will be explaining with each other, same will only be in accordance with your will, same will be in accordance with your own thinking. Hence, keep in your mind that whosoever will act being a pastor, who will act being a leader of My Church, he is doing iniquity and snatching away My post being the Good Pastor, who will act being a leader of My Church, he is doing iniquity and snatching away my post being the Good Pastor because you are only human beings, those of you who act as pastors, those of you who teach and standing up in front of many people, those of you who are doers of iniquities, those of you who cast out devils in My name. Keep in your mind that in My Second coming, many will call to Me saying, Lord, Lord, didn’t we do powerful works and in your name we cast out devils, we did healing. But keep in your mind, I will say to them, never at any time do I know you, I do not know you at any time, those of you who are habitual workers of iniquity, those of you who are casting out devils. Keep in your mind that if you cast out devils, you are snatching away the post which properly belongs to Me only. If there is anyone being possessed by demon that you may encounter, you should only pray to Me and in that manner I Am ready to hear your prayer and I will hear your every plea that you will whisper to Me, that you will shout, that you will pray to. I will help you and I will never forsake you at any time much more to those people who are with Me and who follow Me.

Keep in your mind that I and the Father are one. Nothing is impossible with Me because I Am the Almighty One, I, being your Lord God. Keep in your mind that whosoever among mankind who performs healing in your sight, keep in your mind that I Am the only One doing the healing that even the devil Satan who is the most strongest of all the devils, the big dragon and the old serpent who is called the devil and Satan can never get nigh with you if you carry with you My name. They can do nothing, but to persecute you. Keep in your mind that if you place yourselves in Me, prepare yourselves to persecution because you will be hated by the world. Because you are not of the world, but rather I Am choosing you from the world. Keep in you mind that I Am only besides you. Any time that you call on to, I will hear you. But keep in your mind that if you will deny Me, you have nowhere to go with, but hardship and tribulation.

If you will notice, what is happening to the world, who are calling to Me? Who are calling in My name? None. Only few among mankind. Does the world attain peace? Because what they are using are their own wisdom and never at all that they do pray unto Me. What happen? Killing. And the disease that is now spreading is a punishment for those people who will keep an alliance with any one of the two party who are now fiery fighting with each other. Because My Church does not join, at any time, in any trouble, but rather she has been bringing peace and teaching the right way in order to become peaceful the place where there is trouble.

You should keep in your mind all of the teachings that I Am giving you and you will worship no other except Me. I, being your Lord God, I, as the Good Shepherd, I as the Savior of the world, I who created you, I who is healing you, I who give you life, I the Almighty One that with Me nothing is impossible, thus, you have nowhere to go but only to Me. Therefore, all of you should be joyful and jubilant because you have seen the surface of this world. Be joyful on the day that you were born because you have seen the evil ways of the world and the good deeds of those people who placed themselves in Me. Whereas you are lucky that I gave you life for you to walk in the way leading to My kingdom. Keep in your mind that I Am only besides you. Anytime that you call on to, I Am ready to answer you and I Am ready to help. Keep in your mind all that I Am teaching you and I will never leave you because I knew you already and you knew Me, too. Keep in your mind that no one among mankind has the right to explain the Holy Scriptures because you do not know in what way should that be explained, but rather you should do the explanation within yourselves only in accordance with your thinking, in accordance with how you understand it. Keep in your mind that in My Church, no one among mankind will stand up being a pastor because in My Church I Am the Good Shepherd.

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #27 on: Thu May 03, 2012 - 23:12:49 »
Original Tagalog Text of the Message of the Lord God Jesus Christ:


"Kayong lahat nang magsisipakinig ay makinig kayo, Ako ang inyong Panginoong Diyos, kanino kayo matatakot? Ako na Makapangyarihan sa lahat, kanino kayo masisindak? Tandaan ninyo na pag Ako ang nasa tabi ninyo ay wala kayong dapat katakutan, wala kayong dapat ipangamba sapagka't Ako ang magliligtas sa inyo sa anumang kapahamakan kung kayo'y magtitiwala sa Akin at Ako'y ituturing n’yo bilang inyong kaligtasan at buhay na walang hanggan. Bilang inyong Panginoon na inyo lamang sasambahin at wala ng iba, ang nag-iisang Diyos na umiiral sa sangkalangitan, sangkalupaan o sansinukob man. Ako na lumikha ng lahat ng bagay, Ako na nagbigay buhay sa inyo, kanino kayo pupunta? Kung hindi man sa Akin ay wala na kayong ibang pupuntahan."

“Tandaan ninyo na ang buhay na walang hanggan at ang inyong kaligtasan ay nasa Aking mga kamay. Kung gusto ninyong maligtas, halikayo’t lumapit sa Akin. Kung gusto ninyo ng buhay na walang hanggan, halikayo’t magsitawag sa Akin. Ako’y inyong pagkatiwalaan sapagka’t pag hindi ninyo nagawa ang bagay na ito ay wala kayong kaligtasan at buhay na walang hanggan. Wala kayong pupuntahan kundi kapahamakan at kahirapan. Sapagka’t kung kayo’y sa Akin lalapit ay wala kayong ibang makakamtan kundi kapayapaan, kapayapaan kung inyo itong tatamuhin kung Ako’y inyong pagkakatiwalaan, kung kayo’y magtitiwala sa Akin nang buong puso at buong pag-ibig ninyo. Buong pag-ibig n’yo Akong iibigin at wala kayong ibang sasambahin kundi Ako lamang, Ako na nag-iisang Panginoon n’yo.

larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #28 on: Fri May 04, 2012 - 06:03:38 »
Thanks for revealing your Christian background. I too came from the Catholic Church. I now attend a Christian nondenominational assembly when I can with no membership other than being in Christ.

Hence, you don't believe in the trinity of God? When Ananias, with Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit, and it was told them:

Acts 5:3  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Acts 5:4    . . thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Do you believe that Jesus is the Father?

1 Corinthians 15:27  For He (Father) hath put all things under His (Jesus) feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He (Father) is excepted, which did put all things under Him (Jesus).

1 Corinthians 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto Him (Jesus), then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him (Father) that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Revelation 21:22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. Seems to be more than one personage there.

Thoughts?

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #29 on: Sat May 05, 2012 - 01:41:47 »
Thanks for revealing your Christian background. I too came from the Catholic Church. I now attend a Christian nondenominational assembly when I can with no membership other than being in Christ.

Hence, you don't believe in the trinity of God? When Ananias, with Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit, and it was told them:

Acts 5:3  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Acts 5:4    . . thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Do you believe that Jesus is the Father?

1 Corinthians 15:27  For He (Father) hath put all things under His (Jesus) feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He (Father) is excepted, which did put all things under Him (Jesus).

1 Corinthians 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto Him (Jesus), then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him (Father) that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Revelation 21:22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. Seems to be more than one personage there.

Thoughts?

Yes, Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus. Come to Jesus and know from Him about the HS.

larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #30 on: Sat May 05, 2012 - 06:32:07 »
Thanks for revealing your Christian background. I too came from the Catholic Church. I now attend a Christian nondenominational assembly when I can with no membership other than being in Christ.

Hence, you don't believe in the trinity of God? When Ananias, with Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit, and it was told them:

Acts 5:3  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Acts 5:4    . . thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Do you believe that Jesus is the Father?

1 Corinthians 15:27  For He (Father) hath put all things under His (Jesus) feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He (Father) is excepted, which did put all things under Him (Jesus).

1 Corinthians 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto Him (Jesus), then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him (Father) that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Revelation 21:22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. Seems to be more than one personage there.

Thoughts?

Yes, Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus. Come to Jesus and know from Him about the HS.


Can you enlighten us of your thoughts concerning the Holy Spirit? Thanks.

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #31 on: Sat May 05, 2012 - 21:16:18 »
Can you enlighten us of your thoughts concerning the Holy Spirit? Thanks.
This is what we have learned from the Lord Jesus Christ about the HS;

The HS, as the Lord taught us, is one of the other Spirits beings created by Him. The HS is created by God for the purpose of sending Him (HS) to the believers who call on to the Lord Jesus at anytime so that the believers may physically feel Him (HS) when He (HS) fills them with himself (HS). In that way, the believers will see for themselves that the Lord Jesus knows every plea that their hearts and minds convey to Him (Jesus) at anytime.

The Lord said that there are other Spirits beings He created say for the pupose of bringing plague and diseases to millions in an instant, same is not the function of the HS but of other Spirit beings.

larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #32 on: Sun May 06, 2012 - 05:16:08 »
Can you enlighten us of your thoughts concerning the Holy Spirit? Thanks.
This is what we have learned from the Lord Jesus Christ about the HS;

The HS, as the Lord taught us, is one of the other Spirits beings created by Him. The HS is created by God for the purpose of sending Him (HS) to the believers who call on to the Lord Jesus at anytime so that the believers may physically feel Him (HS) when He (HS) fills them with himself (HS). In that way, the believers will see for themselves that the Lord Jesus knows every plea that their hearts and minds convey to Him (Jesus) at anytime.

The Lord said that there are other Spirits beings He created say for the pupose of bringing plague and diseases to millions in an instant, same is not the function of the HS but of other Spirit beings.


You believe the Holy Spirit was created? Does Acts 5:3-4 have any meaning to you? The Holy Spirit is called God.

Acts 5:3-4  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4  Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
 

Offline sanhedrin

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #33 on: Sun May 13, 2012 - 22:40:51 »

You believe the Holy Spirit was created? Does Acts 5:3-4 have any meaning to you? The Holy Spirit is called God.

Acts 5:3-4  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4  Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

I asked the same essence of your thought to the Lord then and He said to me briefly; why did not I say I and the Father and the HS are one?

larry2

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Re: How can one really be saved?
« Reply #34 on: Sun May 13, 2012 - 23:35:23 »

You believe the Holy Spirit was created? Does Acts 5:3-4 have any meaning to you? The Holy Spirit is called God.

Acts 5:3-4  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4  Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

I asked the same essence of your thought to the Lord then and He said to me briefly; why did not I say I and the Father and the HS are one?


I have no real idea of what you have answered here. I was under the impression that you said that God the Father created God the Holy Spirit. My answer would be to that; Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God! (elohiym) 

God was, is, and always will be. Jesus was not just born of man, He always was as we read in Revelation 1:8, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

     
anything