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Offline afaithfulone4u

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If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« on: Sun May 20, 2012 - 16:50:18 »
so is the kingdom of hell. If you know someone who seems to always be in a chaotic life, eating from the dust of the lower parts of the earth in poverty, disease, total darkness more than likely they have squandered their inheritance that God had for them because they wanted to live it up no matter what the cost.

 Our life, rather chaos or peace is according to our  OWN actions. You can either stay in the presence of the Lord, obeying His Word, receving His blessings in your life, family, town etc...
Or you can be living in hell, outside of Jerusalem/Eden which is the land of Peace where the Father provides for His family who loves Him and His Son. Cain too was sent out of the presence of the LORD, cast out to be burned up  in the land of NOD handling things the best you can on your own with the devil to guide you into all captivity where he knows that JUDGMENT AWAITS YOU around every corner and it seems you can NEVER GET ANY REST.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
KJV

While I do believe in a literal hell and heaven, I also understand that we choose our land of destiny HERE AND NOW.

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If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« on: Sun May 20, 2012 - 16:50:18 »

Offline Michael A

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #1 on: Fri Jun 08, 2012 - 19:13:03 »
If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then

Who are "the Host of Heaven"?

Michael A

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #1 on: Fri Jun 08, 2012 - 19:13:03 »

Offline afaithfulone4u

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #2 on: Fri Jun 08, 2012 - 20:17:41 »
If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then

Who are "the Host of Heaven"?

Michael A

God is the HOST of ...... armies. And the angels good and bad do His bidding.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
KJV

This is the best way to SHAPEN OUR sWORD : )

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #3 on: Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 16:31:38 »
Romans 8:9 seems to disagree.




so is the kingdom of hell. If you know someone who seems to always be in a chaotic life, eating from the dust of the lower parts of the earth in poverty, disease, total darkness more than likely they have squandered their inheritance that God had for them because they wanted to live it up no matter what the cost.

 Our life, rather chaos or peace is according to our  OWN actions. You can either stay in the presence of the Lord, obeying His Word, receving His blessings in your life, family, town etc...
Or you can be living in hell, outside of Jerusalem/Eden which is the land of Peace where the Father provides for His family who loves Him and His Son. Cain too was sent out of the presence of the LORD, cast out to be burned up  in the land of NOD handling things the best you can on your own with the devil to guide you into all captivity where he knows that JUDGMENT AWAITS YOU around every corner and it seems you can NEVER GET ANY REST.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
KJV

While I do believe in a literal hell and heaven, I also understand that we choose our land of destiny HERE AND NOW.

Offline Funguy33

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #4 on: Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 21:20:28 »
If the Kingdom of Heaven is within you, how can you also have the Kingdom of Hell?

Are you saying that once Jesus enters your heart because God chose you, that Jesus  will let you go?

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
I give them eternal life, they will never be lost, and no one will snatch them out ...
Jesus holds them so secure and so certainly that no foe can surprise him as a ...
to be for ever enjoyed by them; and because of the certainty of it, he is said to do ...

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #4 on: Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 21:20:28 »



Offline afaithfulone4u

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #5 on: Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 11:15:06 »
If the Kingdom of Heaven is within you, how can you also have the Kingdom of Hell?

Are you saying that once Jesus enters your heart because God chose you, that Jesus  will let you go?

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
I give them eternal life, they will never be lost, and no one will snatch them out ...
Jesus holds them so secure and so certainly that no foe can surprise him as a ...
to be for ever enjoyed by them; and because of the certainty of it, he is said to do ...

That depends are you walking IN THE WORD or being subject to the devils temptations in your wilderness?
Your body is still flesh and when we chose to walk in the carnal nature we suffer the consequences of our actions. God has left it all up to us. We can not earn salvation, but our living conditions are ALL IN OUR HANDS. Allow the fruit of the Spirit to come forth in your body and you will live in heaven on earth. Allow the temptations to devour you and YOU WILL LIVE IN HELL FIRE on earth.
When you look at a man's life, you can see by it if they are LIVING RIGHT for they will be living in peace, joy, and even abundance and health. For God is the maker of us all and we reap what we sow.
To tell if you are led by your carnal flesh or by the Spirit of life, just take a look at these symptoms of each. It is all in our power to change our life by just repenting and change our ways to line up with the Word.
When we have understood that evil deeds do not exist in the Spirit of God, yet one still walks after receiving Christ in the carnality of his lusts the BIBLE SAYS THEY HAVE NOT GOD'S SPIRIT LEADING THEM TO DO THESE THINGS. That they are still being led by another spirit and will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Heaven is our promised land of the LIVING of peace, wholeness, health and plenty and it is WITHIN YOU according to your spiritual growth in the Word/Christ.
Rom 8:1-15
8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
KJV

1 Cor 6:7-10

7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV

Gal 5:16-6:1

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

KJV


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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #6 on: Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 14:50:55 »
If the Kingdom of Heaven is within you, how can you also have the Kingdom of Hell?

Are you saying that once Jesus enters your heart because God chose you, that Jesus  will let you go?

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
I give them eternal life, they will never be lost, and no one will snatch them out ...
Jesus holds them so secure and so certainly that no foe can surprise him as a ...
to be for ever enjoyed by them; and because of the certainty of it, he is said to do ...


That depends are you walking IN THE WORD or being subject to the devils temptations in your wilderness?
Your body is still flesh and when we chose to walk in the carnal nature we suffer the consequences of our actions.


You lack understanding of the term flesh.   I don't' mean that in a cocky way, but in a dictionary way.

You seem intelligent.  Grab a concordance.  if you don't have one, www.blueletterbible.com has an easy to use online concordance, that utilizes Strongs' Concordant thoughts.   

Paul wrote he wasn't in the flesh anymore.
And he wrote it's removed (when it's gone) by a circumcision done by Christ.  The image behind the use of the word for circumcision, in medical experience means it's something that is gone and doesn't come and go. 
Paul wrote in rom 8:5, that you obey whichever one your mind is in cahoots with.  It doesn't say you mind one and then the other sometimes, upon your choice.  Because if the Spirit ever indwells you, the flesh is gone forever.  There isn't a walking back and forth, you either are or you aren't.  You can't answer, "are you wet or dry?" and claim I'm dry, and I'm still in the water!  And that is your position here.

The way you use that term, flesh/carnal, is very oppressive sin centric teaching that assumes you are always in the flesh, even though scripture denies that. 

Do you put more faith in what the Bible says, or what people have taught you it says?  Go do the work yourself.  Look up flesh, and check all the Johnian uses of the word, you'll find he addresses living people and says they will no longer be, or are no longer in, said flesh.   



ROJTC

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #7 on: Tue Aug 28, 2012 - 20:12:36 »
so is the kingdom of hell. If you know someone who seems to always be in a chaotic life, eating from the dust of the lower parts of the earth in poverty, disease, total darkness more than likely they have squandered their inheritance that God had for them because they wanted to live it up no matter what the cost.

 Our life, rather chaos or peace is according to our  OWN actions. You can either stay in the presence of the Lord, obeying His Word, receving His blessings in your life, family, town etc...
Or you can be living in hell, outside of Jerusalem/Eden which is the land of Peace where the Father provides for His family who loves Him and His Son. Cain too was sent out of the presence of the LORD, cast out to be burned up  in the land of NOD handling things the best you can on your own with the devil to guide you into all captivity where he knows that JUDGMENT AWAITS YOU around every corner and it seems you can NEVER GET ANY REST.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
KJV

While I do believe in a literal hell and heaven, I also understand that we choose our land of destiny HERE AND NOW.
There is no such thing as the kingdom of hell.

Offline afaithfulone4u

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #8 on: Wed Sep 05, 2012 - 17:20:57 »
so is the kingdom of hell. If you know someone who seems to always be in a chaotic life, eating from the dust of the lower parts of the earth in poverty, disease, total darkness more than likely they have squandered their inheritance that God had for them because they wanted to live it up no matter what the cost.

 Our life, rather chaos or peace is according to our  OWN actions. You can either stay in the presence of the Lord, obeying His Word, receving His blessings in your life, family, town etc...
Or you can be living in hell, outside of Jerusalem/Eden which is the land of Peace where the Father provides for His family who loves Him and His Son. Cain too was sent out of the presence of the LORD, cast out to be burned up  in the land of NOD handling things the best you can on your own with the devil to guide you into all captivity where he knows that JUDGMENT AWAITS YOU around every corner and it seems you can NEVER GET ANY REST.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
KJV

While I do believe in a literal hell and heaven, I also understand that we choose our land of destiny HERE AND NOW.
There is no such thing as the kingdom of hell.

Well the Bible may not mention hell being of a kingdom. But we understand that when one lives a life of hell, that it is not of the kingdom of heaven.... and it does have rulers
2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
KJV
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
KJV
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
KJV

 
 

Offline afaithfulone4u

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #9 on: Wed Sep 05, 2012 - 17:36:01 »
If the Kingdom of Heaven is within you, how can you also have the Kingdom of Hell?

Are you saying that once Jesus enters your heart because God chose you, that Jesus  will let you go?

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
I give them eternal life, they will never be lost, and no one will snatch them out ...
Jesus holds them so secure and so certainly that no foe can surprise him as a ...
to be for ever enjoyed by them; and because of the certainty of it, he is said to do ...


Did you forget that:
Matt 20:16
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
KJV

 
You must follow Christ to find the path to life and receive the keys to the kingdom. You do not enter into your promised land just because you are saved. You have a long road ahead of you to shed that flesh man so that the spirit man can become stronger than the flesh. We walk in a wilderness just as soon as we receive Christ where the devil tempts you and tries to pull you away from the Word which is the straight line that leads you to carry your own cross as you learn SUBMISSION UNDER the feet of Christ, humbling yourself to the Word.
 
Mark 9:47
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
KJV
Gal 5:16-25
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
KJV

Saved to live again and inherit the kingdom of God are two different things. You are saved because you believe, but you do not rule and reign with Christ unless you are trained BEFORE the foundation of the new world to come as son's of God who have abided in the Word.

Offline afaithfulone4u

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #10 on: Wed Sep 05, 2012 - 17:50:22 »
If the Kingdom of Heaven is within you, how can you also have the Kingdom of Hell?

Are you saying that once Jesus enters your heart because God chose you, that Jesus  will let you go?

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
I give them eternal life, they will never be lost, and no one will snatch them out ...
Jesus holds them so secure and so certainly that no foe can surprise him as a ...
to be for ever enjoyed by them; and because of the certainty of it, he is said to do ...


That depends are you walking IN THE WORD or being subject to the devils temptations in your wilderness?
Your body is still flesh and when we chose to walk in the carnal nature we suffer the consequences of our actions.


You lack understanding of the term flesh.   I don't' mean that in a cocky way, but in a dictionary way.

You seem intelligent.  Grab a concordance.  if you don't have one, www.blueletterbible.com has an easy to use online concordance, that utilizes Strongs' Concordant thoughts.   

Paul wrote he wasn't in the flesh anymore.
And he wrote it's removed (when it's gone) by a circumcision done by Christ.  The image behind the use of the word for circumcision, in medical experience means it's something that is gone and doesn't come and go. 
Paul wrote in rom 8:5, that you obey whichever one your mind is in cahoots with.  It doesn't say you mind one and then the other sometimes, upon your choice.  Because if the Spirit ever indwells you, the flesh is gone forever.  There isn't a walking back and forth, you either are or you aren't.  You can't answer, "are you wet or dry?" and claim I'm dry, and I'm still in the water!  And that is your position here.

The way you use that term, flesh/carnal, is very oppressive sin centric teaching that assumes you are always in the flesh, even though scripture denies that. 

Do you put more faith in what the Bible says, or what people have taught you it says?  Go do the work yourself.  Look up flesh, and check all the Johnian uses of the word, you'll find he addresses living people and says they will no longer be, or are no longer in, said flesh.   




 
I understand that there are two meanings for flesh. One is meaning skin while the other means desires of the carnal nature.
When I use flesh, I am referring to the carnal man with it's dog eat dog instincts.
We are supposed to be being led by the Spirit of God, yet not everyone comes to maturity. They like to stay on the milk of the Word and when you stay there, you never begin to grow in the Word to learn how to walk in the Word so that you are no longer a babe that is still fleshy in their carnal ways. Many Christians have way too much flesh showing. As you can read here, that we DO have a choice of which we will allow our actions to be led by, even after coming to Christ. Remember when Jesus said many will say Lord, Lord, but he will not know them?
 
Gal 5:15-6:1
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
KJV
1 Cor 3:1-6
3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
KJV
1 Peter 2:1-3
2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
KJV


 

Offline DaveW

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #11 on: Mon Oct 22, 2012 - 14:02:28 »
Quote
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I think you are taking this incorrectly.  Perhaps it was a good translation 400 years ago but it is a bit misleading today.

The "you" is plural so perhaps it would  be better understood as "the kingdom of God is AMONG you."

It should not be taken as within an individual but within the whole congregation.

Offline DaveW

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Re: If the kingdom of heaven is within you....then
« Reply #12 on: Tue Oct 23, 2012 - 06:17:44 »
Quote from: Xian PUgilist
It's part of the argument Rome has for Apostolic Authority.

The YOU there is the Church.
And they would be right. (at least in part)

None of God's covenants are collections of unconnected individuals.  We together are a body.  Bound together with ligaments and joints and muscles.

When you start throwing off church structure you leave the plain sense of scripture.

 

     
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