Author Topic: Matthew 28:16-20 (Read 14137 times)

Jimmy · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:25:58 PM »

Quote from: yogi bear on August 25, 2011, 11:37:41 AM

So far we are getting some good answers but I was hoping to see a passage related to this where this was actually carried out by the eleven. Is there not one passage that shows this was done?

The day of Pentecost.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:25:58 PM »

yogi bear · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:31:45 PM »

Quote from: Jimmy on August 25, 2011, 01:25:58 PM

Quote from: yogi bear on August 25, 2011, 11:37:41 AM
So far we are getting some good answers but I was hoping to see a passage related to this where this was actually carried out by the eleven. Is there not one passage that shows this was done?

The day of Pentecost.

That is Acts 2 is it not? I was thinking that was the first it came into play. Let me study that a bit and get back to you

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:31:45 PM »

Lively Stone · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:32:23 PM »

Quote from: yogi bear on August 25, 2011, 01:20:32 PM

Yes Lively I realize there are many passages that relate to this but I am looking for the first time this was put into play after the words were given. I am trying to see if I can find out if this was physical and spiritual combined or if it was only spiritual. I am trying to see just how the Apostles took this command and preformed it. I was hoping there would be an example see in int the bible where it was established so as I can begin to learn more of what is being taught on this subject. I am hoping to get this clear in my head.

Matthew 28:18-20
18 Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. 19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

Lively Stone · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:42:21 PM »

Quote from: Jimmy on August 25, 2011, 05:37:51 AM

This is by far the best answer that has been given. However the answer to question 2 is not quite right. In verses 19 and 20 only "go" and "make disciples" are commands. Grammatically, "baptizing" and "teaching" are not commands as such, but in fact are modifiers to the command "make disciples". Jesus is not telling the eleven to make disciples and then baptize them and teach them; rather Jesus is telling the eleven how to make disciples. He didn't tell them to make disciples and then baptize and teach them; instead He told them how to make disciples.

Suppose I had a roof that had been damaged in one way or another or it was just getting old and needed some upkeep. I might call a roofing contractor to give me and estimate of what it would cost. I might tell him, "I want you to fix my roof, inspecting it completely, replacing any rotted or otherwise damaged wood and putting new shingles on the entire roof." Grammatically, "inspecting", "replacing" and "putting" are modifiers describing what I mean by "fix", It is a description of what how to fix the roof.

"Go, baptizing" is a complete command that tells the disciples to do two things.

If the courts took your understanding of the mandate, you would not have a leg to stand on in court should your errant roofer ignore the inclusions.

gospel · « **Reply #19 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:45:04 PM »

Quote from: yogi bear on August 24, 2011, 09:27:16 PM

Anyone have an answer for 2,3 and 4

Matthew 25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

EVERYONE WHO HAS - we can debate ad nauseum about what we have, some of us are clear on that as the bible very clearly states what we have been given in salvation, YET EVEN THAT is debated

HE WILL HAVE ABUNDANCE - abundance of what? What we have been given, the keys to the kingdom, authority over the works of the enemy, the authority to use the Name of Jesus, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and access to His Fruit and His Gifts

WHOEVER DOES NOT HAVE - Have what? An UNDERSTANDING of what they HAVE BEEN GIVEN

WHAT HE HAS WILL BE TAKEN AWAY - Use it or lose it! The more people ARE NOT TAUGHT what they Have been Given in Christ, as long as WHAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN is belittled, mocked, stiffed, de-emphasized, overlooked under valued, hindered and depreciated instead of appreciated
.....the people, churches and nations who do so and teach others to do the same will lose an ability to ever understand it much less the ability to operate in it

Somebody had to say it, might as well be me

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #19 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:45:04 PM »

Lively Stone · « **Reply #20 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:47:21 PM »

Quote from: gospel on August 25, 2011, 01:45:04 PM

Quote from: yogi bear on August 24, 2011, 09:27:16 PM
Anyone have an answer for 2,3 and 4

Matthew 25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

EVERYONE WHO HAS - we can debate ad nauseum about what we have, some of us are clear on that as the bible very clearly states what we have been given in salvation, YET EVEN THAT is debated

HE WILL HAVE ABUNDANCE - abundance of what? What we have been given, the keys to the kingdom, authority over the works of the enemy, the authority to use the Name of Jesus, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and access to His Fruit and His Gifts

WHOEVER DOES NOT HAVE - Have what? An UNDERSTANDING of what they HAVE BEEN GIVEN

WHAT HE HAS WILL BE TAKEN AWAY - Use it or lose it! The more people ARE NOT TAUGHT what they Have been Given in Christ, as long as WHAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN is belittled, mocked, stiffed, de-emphasized, overlooked under valued, depreciated instead of appreciated and hindered, the people, churches and nations who do so will lose an ability to ever understand it much less the ability to operate in it

Somebody had to say it, might as well be me

Might as well!

gospel · « **Reply #21 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:56:08 PM »

Quote from: Lively Stone on August 25, 2011, 01:47:21 PM

Quote from: gospel on August 25, 2011, 01:45:04 PM
Quote from: yogi bear on August 24, 2011, 09:27:16 PM
Anyone have an answer for 2,3 and 4

Matthew 25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

EVERYONE WHO HAS - we can debate ad nauseum about what we have, some of us are clear on that as the bible very clearly states what we have been given in salvation, YET EVEN THAT is debated

HE WILL HAVE ABUNDANCE - abundance of what? What we have been given, the keys to the kingdom, authority over the works of the enemy, the authority to use the Name of Jesus, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and access to His Fruit and His Gifts

WHOEVER DOES NOT HAVE - Have what? An UNDERSTANDING of what they HAVE BEEN GIVEN

WHAT HE HAS WILL BE TAKEN AWAY - Use it or lose it! The more people ARE NOT TAUGHT what they Have been Given in Christ, as long as WHAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN is belittled, mocked, stiffed, de-emphasized, overlooked under valued, depreciated instead of appreciated and hindered, the people, churches and nations who do so will lose an ability to ever understand it much less the ability to operate in it

Somebody had to say it, might as well be me

Might as well!

I must say your selection of pics is consistently quite impressive!

FireSword · « **Reply #22 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:58:25 PM »

Quote from: P.F. on August 24, 2011, 09:34:17 PM

Quote from: yogi bear on August 24, 2011, 12:01:03 PM
Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Mat. 28:16-20 (KJV)

Questions
1. Had Jesus been to the cross before this conversation with the Eleven?

2. Is this a command or just a suggestion on Jesus part?

3. How is this to be carried out?

4. Does it show anywhere in scripture that this was carried out?

Pat answer:

It's all old covenant!

He says I am with you till the end of the world.

Was this fulfilled via the disciples?

It cannot be unless they still live. If they live in spirit, they cannot baptize another.

So it can only be fulfilled via a future generation.

1. Had Jesus been to the cross before this conversation with the Eleven?

He said this after been raised from the dead.

yogi bear · « **Reply #23 on:** August 25, 2011, 02:02:47 PM »

Gospel I am sorry but it looks like you forgot the passages we were discussing so let me re post them for you

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Now to refresh your memory the question is how do the eleven carry out there marching orders. If they were to be making disciples baptizing them just how are they doing this is Acts 2 where it is seen they carried it out for the first time?

FireSword · « **Reply #24 on:** August 25, 2011, 02:03:59 PM »

Quote from: yogi bear on August 25, 2011, 01:31:45 PM

Quote from: Jimmy on August 25, 2011, 01:25:58 PM
Quote from: yogi bear on August 25, 2011, 11:37:41 AM
So far we are getting some good answers but I was hoping to see a passage related to this where this was actually carried out by the eleven. Is there not one passage that shows this was done?

The day of Pentecost.

That is Acts 2 is it not? I was thinking that was the first it came into play. Let me study that a bit and get back to you

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

larry2 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 25, 2011, 02:50:58 PM »

Are you thinking of the twelve of Luke 9:6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where?

As for the eleven we must go to the commission in Mark 16:15, "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

Romans 10:18. "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."

Colossians 1:23. ". . the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister."

yogi bear · « **Reply #26 on:** August 25, 2011, 03:11:25 PM »

Larry I am thinking of the eleven just as it says in Matthew 28:16 but you are correct it is echoed in Mark 16:15 but you stopped short for some reason the context says

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

So it even goes more into how important the command to baptize was according to the scripture you point me to. Thank you for helping me see that. Now I just have to see if this is water or not see I am learning. Thank you brother LARRY for opening my eyes to the truth. Let me ponder a little more on this.

gospel · « **Reply #27 on:** August 25, 2011, 03:14:21 PM »

Quote from: yogi bear on August 25, 2011, 02:02:47 PM

Gospel I am sorry but it looks like you forgot the passages we were discussing so let me re post them for you

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Now to refresh your memory the question is how do the eleven carry out there marching orders. If they were to be making disciples baptizing them just how are they doing this is Acts 2 where it is seen they carried it out for the first time?

That's why I answered it that way....

because they carried out the orders by using what they were given.

And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Its like this in the church today, believers are in the place where they are appointed to be, in a church fellowship in which they worship Jesus, yet and still some doubt.

Jesus has to reiterate the situation to them so they can appreciate what has transpired

All power has been given to Jesus in heaven and earth

THEREFORE GO

See it's not just that all power was given to Jesus but He said

Because all power is given Him, THEREFORE, in other words because of that reason GO

Do all those things because ALL POWER / EXOUSIA, meaning AUTHORITY HAS BEEN GIVEN TO HIM

So I AM AUTHORIZING YOU to act in my stead,

YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY to use my name to

DO WHAT I WOULD DO...its all pretty clear

Unless in your question you're really trying to say something.

If that is the case

Could you say clearly what you are asking ....for maybe I'm not understanding

Otherwise you should re-read Lively's answer which was very well stated and in it she responded directly to each of your questions

Jimmy · « **Reply #28 on:** August 25, 2011, 05:31:58 PM »

Quote from: Lively Stone on August 25, 2011, 01:42:21 PM

Quote from: Jimmy on August 25, 2011, 05:37:51 AM

This is by far the best answer that has been given. However the answer to question 2 is not quite right. In verses 19 and 20 only "go" and "make disciples" are commands. Grammatically, "baptizing" and "teaching" are not commands as such, but in fact are modifiers to the command "make disciples". Jesus is not telling the eleven to make disciples and then baptize them and teach them; rather Jesus is telling the eleven how to make disciples. He didn't tell them to make disciples and then baptize and teach them; instead He told them how to make disciples.

Suppose I had a roof that had been damaged in one way or another or it was just getting old and needed some upkeep. I might call a roofing contractor to give me and estimate of what it would cost. I might tell him, "I want you to fix my roof, inspecting it completely, replacing any rotted or otherwise damaged wood and putting new shingles on the entire roof." Grammatically, "inspecting", "replacing" and "putting" are modifiers describing what I mean by "fix", It is a description of what how to fix the roof.

"Go, baptizing" is a complete command that tells the disciples to do two things.

If the courts took your understanding of the mandate, you would not have a leg to stand on in court should your errant roofer ignore the inclusions.

Lively,

I am sorry but you are wrong. It has nothing to do with courts. It really doesn't have anything to do with theology. It is just plain good old high school English grammar. Something that I am not sure they even bother to teach anymore. And in this case it is good old Greek grammar as well.

Lively Stone · « **Reply #29 on:** August 25, 2011, 06:01:40 PM »

Quote from: Jimmy on August 25, 2011, 05:31:58 PM

Quote from: Lively Stone on August 25, 2011, 01:42:21 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on August 25, 2011, 05:37:51 AM

This is by far the best answer that has been given. However the answer to question 2 is not quite right. In verses 19 and 20 only "go" and "make disciples" are commands. Grammatically, "baptizing" and "teaching" are not commands as such, but in fact are modifiers to the command "make disciples". Jesus is not telling the eleven to make disciples and then baptize them and teach them; rather Jesus is telling the eleven how to make disciples. He didn't tell them to make disciples and then baptize and teach them; instead He told them how to make disciples.

Suppose I had a roof that had been damaged in one way or another or it was just getting old and needed some upkeep. I might call a roofing contractor to give me and estimate of what it would cost. I might tell him, "I want you to fix my roof, inspecting it completely, replacing any rotted or otherwise damaged wood and putting new shingles on the entire roof." Grammatically, "inspecting", "replacing" and "putting" are modifiers describing what I mean by "fix", It is a description of what how to fix the roof.

"Go, baptizing" is a complete command that tells the disciples to do two things.

If the courts took your understanding of the mandate, you would not have a leg to stand on in court should your errant roofer ignore the inclusions.

Lively,

I am sorry but you are wrong. It has nothing to do with courts. It really doesn't have anything to do with theology. It is just plain good old high school English grammar. Something that I am not sure they even bother to teach anymore. And in this case it is good old Greek grammar as well.

I am gifted in grammar and have worked as a literary editor. Believe me, 'baptizing' is in a future progressive tense and can be used in an imperative. That is what this is.

Christian Forums and Message Board

News: