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Offline yogi bear

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Matthew 28:16-20
« on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 13:01:03 »
    Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.  Mat. 28:16-20  (KJV)


Questions
1. Had Jesus been to the cross before this conversation with the Eleven?

2. Is this a command or just a suggestion on Jesus part?

3. How is this to be carried out?

4. Does it show anywhere in scripture that this was carried out?

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Matthew 28:16-20
« on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 13:01:03 »

larry2

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #1 on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 13:52:22 »
The risen Christ was uttering the words of Matthew Chapter Twenty-eight. At that time He already had been given all power in heaven and earth; Matthew 28:18. Acts 1:3  To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.At this present time I know of no Christian nation.
 
At a future time nations instead of individuals will be witnessed to in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Presently we do everything in Jesus' name. Colossians 3:17  And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Isaiah 66:8  Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed (In tribulation), she brought forth her children.

Revelation 15:4, . . all nations shall go and worship before God. This will all occur during the Lord's Day, or what is know as the millennium; Jesus' thousand year reign.

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #1 on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 13:52:22 »

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #2 on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 21:43:16 »
Larry
Let me chew on that for a bit. This is the first I have ever heard this answer to that passage. Not sure I follow

Offline Insight

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #3 on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 22:09:57 »
APPEARANCES OF JESUS AFTER HIS RESURRECTION (In order of appearance)

To Mary Magdalene John 20:14; Mark 16:9

To the other women Matt 28:9

To Peter 1 Cor 15:5; Luke 24:34

To the two disciples on the way to Emmaus Mark 16:12-13; Luke 24:13-32

In the same evening to the Apostles in the absence of Thomas 1 Cor 15:5; Mark 16:14; Luke 24:36; John 20:19-24

To the apostles eight days later with Thomas present John 20:24-29

By the Sea of Galilee to Peter, Thomas, Nathanael, James, John and two other disciples John 21:1-14

To the Apostles on a mountain in Galilee Matt 28:16

To more than 500 brethren at once 1 Cor 15:6 Matt 28:16-20

To James his half brother 1 Cor 15:7

In all, he spent 40 days with his Apostles Acts 1:3; 1 Cor 15:7

To his Apostles at his ascension Luke 24:50-51; Acts 1:9-10

Last of all he appeared to Paul 1 Cor 15:8; Acts 9:3-5; 22:6-10

Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee

“Eleven Disciples

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #4 on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 22:27:16 »
Anyone have an answer for 2,3 and 4

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #4 on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 22:27:16 »



Offline P.F.

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #5 on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 22:34:17 »
    Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.  Mat. 28:16-20  (KJV)


Questions
1. Had Jesus been to the cross before this conversation with the Eleven?

2. Is this a command or just a suggestion on Jesus part?

3. How is this to be carried out?

4. Does it show anywhere in scripture that this was carried out?

Pat answer:

It's all old covenant!

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #6 on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 22:37:35 »
It's a command.

Now we can argue about whether all believers are commanded, or just the eleven He was talking to.  ::noworries::

Jarrod

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #7 on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 23:02:16 »
It's a command.

Now we can argue about whether all believers are commanded, or just the eleven He was talking to.  ::noworries::

Jarrod

Jarrod

Who were the some who “Doubted

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #8 on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 23:19:05 »
   Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.   Mat. 28:16-20  (KJV)


Questions
1. Had Jesus been to the cross before this conversation with the Eleven?

Yes, He was resurrected.

Quote
2. Is this a command or just a suggestion on Jesus part?

Yes, "Go" and "teach, baptizing" are commands.

Quote
3. How is this to be carried out?

This is carried out every day by serious Christians who go where God has commanded them to go and who speak and teach by word and example what He wants them to speak and teach.

Quote
4. Does it show anywhere in scripture that this was carried out?

It started with the hundreds of disciples of Jesus and then quickly accelerated to 3000 salvations in one day as recorded in Acts and carried on from there to this very day.

Offline Insight

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #9 on: Wed Aug 24, 2011 - 23:25:33 »
   Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.   Mat. 28:16-20  (KJV)


Questions
1. Had Jesus been to the cross before this conversation with the Eleven?

Yes, He was resurrected.

Quote
2. Is this a command or just a suggestion on Jesus part?

Yes, "Go" and "teach, baptizing" are commands.

Quote
3. How is this to be carried out?

This is carried out every day by serious Christians who go where God has commanded them to go and who speak and teach by word and example what He wants them to speak and teach.

Quote
4. Does it show anywhere in scripture that this was carried out?

It started with the hundreds of disciples of Jesus and then quickly accelerated to 3000 salvations in one day as recorded in Acts and carried on from there to this very day.

Correct and worthy of manna.

larry2

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #10 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 01:15:38 »
Yogi, the commission Jesus gave to evangelize individuals was in Mark 16:15.  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature (All creation or men).

Mark 16:19  So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
 
Colossians 1:23  If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

1. Had Jesus been to the cross before this conversation with the Eleven?

Yes.

2. Is this a command or just a suggestion on Jesus part?

They were commissioned to go to everyone. Paul said it like this in 1 Corinthians 9:16  For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
 
3. How is this to be carried out?

Earlier Jesus sent out the twelve by twos to Israel before He died, but later to the eleven, instructions signs followed them in Mark 16:17-18.  And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18  They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
 
4. Does it show anywhere in scripture that this was carried out?

Again in Colossians 1:23  . . the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven. .

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #11 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 06:37:51 »
   Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.   Mat. 28:16-20  (KJV)


Questions
1. Had Jesus been to the cross before this conversation with the Eleven?

Yes, He was resurrected.

Quote
2. Is this a command or just a suggestion on Jesus part?

Yes, "Go" and "teach, baptizing" are commands.

Quote
3. How is this to be carried out?

This is carried out every day by serious Christians who go where God has commanded them to go and who speak and teach by word and example what He wants them to speak and teach.

Quote
4. Does it show anywhere in scripture that this was carried out?

It started with the hundreds of disciples of Jesus and then quickly accelerated to 3000 salvations in one day as recorded in Acts and carried on from there to this very day.

This is by far the best answer that has been given.  However the answer to question 2 is not quite right.  In verses 19 and 20 only "go" and "make disciples" are commands. Grammatically, "baptizing" and "teaching" are not commands as such, but in fact are modifiers to the command "make disciples".  Jesus is not telling the eleven to make disciples and then baptize them and teach them; rather Jesus is telling the eleven how to make disciples.  He didn't tell them to make disciples and then baptize and teach them; instead He told them how to make disciples.

Suppose I had a roof that had been damaged in one way or another or it was just getting old and needed some upkeep.  I might call a roofing contractor to give me and estimate of what it would cost.  I might tell him, "I want you to fix my roof, inspecting it completely, replacing any rotted or otherwise damaged wood and putting new shingles on the entire roof." Grammatically, "inspecting", "replacing" and "putting" are modifiers describing what I mean by "fix",  It is a description of what how to fix the roof.

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #12 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 12:37:41 »
So far we are getting some good answers but I was hoping to see a passage related to this where this was actually carried out by the eleven. Is there not one passage that shows this was done?

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #13 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 13:29:36 »
So far we are getting some good answers but I was hoping to see a passage related to this where this was actually carried out by the eleven. Is there not one passage that shows this was done?

No, for they were joined by the hundreds of disciples in fulfilling that command from that point to this day. Read the entire New Testament, and especially Acts, which will attest to their obedience.

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #14 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 14:20:32 »
Yes Lively I realize there are many passages that relate to this but I am looking for the first time this was put into play after the words were given. I am trying to see if I can find out if this was physical and spiritual combined or if it was only spiritual. I am trying to see just how the Apostles took this command and preformed it. I was hoping there would be an example see in int the bible where it was established so as I can begin to learn more of what is being taught on this subject. I am hoping to get this clear in my head.

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #15 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 14:25:58 »
So far we are getting some good answers but I was hoping to see a passage related to this where this was actually carried out by the eleven. Is there not one passage that shows this was done?

The day of Pentecost. 

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #16 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 14:31:45 »
So far we are getting some good answers but I was hoping to see a passage related to this where this was actually carried out by the eleven. Is there not one passage that shows this was done?

The day of Pentecost. 

That is Acts 2 is it not? I was thinking that was the first it came into play. Let me study that a bit and get back to you

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #17 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 14:32:23 »
Yes Lively I realize there are many passages that relate to this but I am looking for the first time this was put into play after the words were given. I am trying to see if I can find out if this was physical and spiritual combined or if it was only spiritual. I am trying to see just how the Apostles took this command and preformed it. I was hoping there would be an example see in int the bible where it was established so as I can begin to learn more of what is being taught on this subject. I am hoping to get this clear in my head.


Matthew 28:18-20
18 Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. 19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.
« Last Edit: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 14:39:57 by Lively Stone »

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #18 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 14:42:21 »

This is by far the best answer that has been given.  However the answer to question 2 is not quite right.  In verses 19 and 20 only "go" and "make disciples" are commands. Grammatically, "baptizing" and "teaching" are not commands as such, but in fact are modifiers to the command "make disciples".  Jesus is not telling the eleven to make disciples and then baptize them and teach them; rather Jesus is telling the eleven how to make disciples.  He didn't tell them to make disciples and then baptize and teach them; instead He told them how to make disciples.

Suppose I had a roof that had been damaged in one way or another or it was just getting old and needed some upkeep.  I might call a roofing contractor to give me and estimate of what it would cost.  I might tell him, "I want you to fix my roof, inspecting it completely, replacing any rotted or otherwise damaged wood and putting new shingles on the entire roof." Grammatically, "inspecting", "replacing" and "putting" are modifiers describing what I mean by "fix",  It is a description of what how to fix the roof.

"Go, baptizing" is a complete command that tells the disciples to do two things.

If the courts took your understanding of the mandate, you would not have a leg to stand on in court should your errant roofer ignore the inclusions.

Offline gospel

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #19 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 14:45:04 »
Anyone have an answer for 2,3 and 4


Matthew 25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

EVERYONE WHO HAS - we can debate ad nauseum about what we have, some of us are clear on that as the bible very clearly states what we have been given in salvation, YET EVEN THAT is debated

HE WILL HAVE ABUNDANCE - abundance of what? What we have been given, the keys to the kingdom, authority over the works of the enemy, the authority to use the Name of Jesus, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and access to His Fruit and His Gifts


WHOEVER DOES NOT HAVE - Have what? An  UNDERSTANDING of what they HAVE BEEN GIVEN

WHAT HE HAS WILL BE TAKEN AWAY
- Use it or lose it! The more people ARE NOT TAUGHT what they Have been Given in Christ, as long as WHAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN is belittled, mocked, stiffed, de-emphasized, overlooked under valued, hindered and depreciated instead of appreciated
.....the people, churches and nations who do so and teach others to do the same will lose an ability to ever understand it much less the ability to operate in it


Somebody had to say it, might as well be me  ::shrug::



« Last Edit: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 14:53:36 by gospel »

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #20 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 14:47:21 »
Anyone have an answer for 2,3 and 4



Matthew 25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

EVERYONE WHO HAS - we can debate ad nauseum about what we have, some of us are clear on that as the bible very clearly states what we have been given in salvation, YET EVEN THAT is debated

HE WILL HAVE ABUNDANCE - abundance of what? What we have been given, the keys to the kingdom, authority over the works of the enemy, the authority to use the Name of Jesus, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and access to His Fruit and His Gifts


WHOEVER DOES NOT HAVE - Have what? An  UNDERSTANDING of what they HAVE BEEN GIVEN

WHAT HE HAS WILL BE TAKEN AWAY
- Use it or lose it! The more people ARE NOT TAUGHT what they Have been Given in Christ, as long as WHAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN is belittled, mocked, stiffed, de-emphasized, overlooked under valued, depreciated instead of appreciated and hindered, the people, churches and nations who do so will lose an ability to ever understand it much less the ability to operate in it


Somebody had to say it, might as well be me  ::shrug::






Might as well!

Offline gospel

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #21 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 14:56:08 »
Anyone have an answer for 2,3 and 4



Matthew 25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

EVERYONE WHO HAS - we can debate ad nauseum about what we have, some of us are clear on that as the bible very clearly states what we have been given in salvation, YET EVEN THAT is debated

HE WILL HAVE ABUNDANCE - abundance of what? What we have been given, the keys to the kingdom, authority over the works of the enemy, the authority to use the Name of Jesus, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and access to His Fruit and His Gifts


WHOEVER DOES NOT HAVE - Have what? An  UNDERSTANDING of what they HAVE BEEN GIVEN

WHAT HE HAS WILL BE TAKEN AWAY
- Use it or lose it! The more people ARE NOT TAUGHT what they Have been Given in Christ, as long as WHAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN is belittled, mocked, stiffed, de-emphasized, overlooked under valued, depreciated instead of appreciated and hindered, the people, churches and nations who do so will lose an ability to ever understand it much less the ability to operate in it


Somebody had to say it, might as well be me  ::shrug::






Might as well!


I must say your selection of pics is consistently quite impressive!



Offline FireSword

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #22 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 14:58:25 »
    Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.  Mat. 28:16-20  (KJV)


Questions
1. Had Jesus been to the cross before this conversation with the Eleven?

2. Is this a command or just a suggestion on Jesus part?

3. How is this to be carried out?

4. Does it show anywhere in scripture that this was carried out?

Pat answer:

It's all old covenant!

He says I am with you till the end of the world.

Was this fulfilled via the disciples?

It cannot be unless they still live. If they live in spirit, they cannot baptize another.

So it can only be fulfilled via a future generation.

1. Had Jesus been to the cross before this conversation with the Eleven?

He said this after been raised from the dead.


Offline yogi bear

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #23 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 15:02:47 »
Gospel I am sorry but it looks like you forgot the passages we were discussing so let me re post them for you

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Now to refresh your memory the question is how do the eleven carry out there marching orders. If they were to be making disciples   baptizing them just how are they doing this is Acts 2 where it is seen they carried it out for the first time?

Offline FireSword

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #24 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 15:03:59 »
So far we are getting some good answers but I was hoping to see a passage related to this where this was actually carried out by the eleven. Is there not one passage that shows this was done?

The day of Pentecost. 

That is Acts 2 is it not? I was thinking that was the first it came into play. Let me study that a bit and get back to you


Acts 2:38
 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Matthew 3:11
 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Acts 8:12
 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

larry2

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #25 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 15:50:58 »
Are you thinking of the twelve of Luke 9:6  And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where?

As for the eleven we must go to the commission in Mark 16:15,  "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

Romans 10:18. "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."

Colossians 1:23. ". . the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister."
 
 
 
 

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #26 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 16:11:25 »
Larry I am thinking of the eleven just as it says in Matthew 28:16 but you are correct it is echoed in Mark 16:15 but you stopped short for some reason the context says

    14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat,  and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

    19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

So it even goes more into how important the command to baptize was according to the scripture you point me to. Thank you for helping me see that. Now I just have to see if this is water or not see I am learning. Thank you brother LARRY for opening my eyes to the truth. Let me ponder a little more on this.

Offline gospel

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #27 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 16:14:21 »
Gospel I am sorry but it looks like you forgot the passages we were discussing so let me re post them for you

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Now to refresh your memory the question is how do the eleven carry out there marching orders. If they were to be making disciples   baptizing them just how are they doing this is Acts 2 where it is seen they carried it out for the first time?

That's why I answered it that way....

because they carried out the orders by using what they were given.


 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.


Its like this in the church today, believers are in the place where they are appointed to be, in a church fellowship in which they worship Jesus, yet and still some doubt.

Jesus has to reiterate the situation to them so they can appreciate what has transpired

All power has been given to Jesus in heaven and earth

THEREFORE GO

See it's not just that all power was given to Jesus but He said

Because all power is given Him, THEREFORE, in other words because of that reason GO

Do all those things because ALL POWER / EXOUSIA, meaning AUTHORITY HAS BEEN GIVEN TO HIM

So I AM AUTHORIZING YOU to act in my stead,

YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY to use my name to

DO WHAT I WOULD DO...its all pretty clear

Unless in your question you're really trying to say something.

If that is the case

Could you say clearly what you are asking ....for maybe I'm not understanding  

Otherwise you should re-read Lively's answer which was very well stated and in it she responded directly to each of your questions

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #28 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 18:31:58 »

This is by far the best answer that has been given.  However the answer to question 2 is not quite right.  In verses 19 and 20 only "go" and "make disciples" are commands. Grammatically, "baptizing" and "teaching" are not commands as such, but in fact are modifiers to the command "make disciples".  Jesus is not telling the eleven to make disciples and then baptize them and teach them; rather Jesus is telling the eleven how to make disciples.  He didn't tell them to make disciples and then baptize and teach them; instead He told them how to make disciples.

Suppose I had a roof that had been damaged in one way or another or it was just getting old and needed some upkeep.  I might call a roofing contractor to give me and estimate of what it would cost.  I might tell him, "I want you to fix my roof, inspecting it completely, replacing any rotted or otherwise damaged wood and putting new shingles on the entire roof." Grammatically, "inspecting", "replacing" and "putting" are modifiers describing what I mean by "fix",  It is a description of what how to fix the roof.

"Go, baptizing" is a complete command that tells the disciples to do two things.

If the courts took your understanding of the mandate, you would not have a leg to stand on in court should your errant roofer ignore the inclusions.

Lively,

I am sorry but you are wrong.  It has nothing to do with courts.  It really doesn't have anything to do with theology.  It is just plain good old high school English grammar.  Something that I am not sure they even bother to teach anymore.  And in this case it is good old Greek grammar as well.

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #29 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 19:01:40 »

This is by far the best answer that has been given.  However the answer to question 2 is not quite right.  In verses 19 and 20 only "go" and "make disciples" are commands. Grammatically, "baptizing" and "teaching" are not commands as such, but in fact are modifiers to the command "make disciples".  Jesus is not telling the eleven to make disciples and then baptize them and teach them; rather Jesus is telling the eleven how to make disciples.  He didn't tell them to make disciples and then baptize and teach them; instead He told them how to make disciples.

Suppose I had a roof that had been damaged in one way or another or it was just getting old and needed some upkeep.  I might call a roofing contractor to give me and estimate of what it would cost.  I might tell him, "I want you to fix my roof, inspecting it completely, replacing any rotted or otherwise damaged wood and putting new shingles on the entire roof." Grammatically, "inspecting", "replacing" and "putting" are modifiers describing what I mean by "fix",  It is a description of what how to fix the roof.

"Go, baptizing" is a complete command that tells the disciples to do two things.

If the courts took your understanding of the mandate, you would not have a leg to stand on in court should your errant roofer ignore the inclusions.

Lively,

I am sorry but you are wrong.  It has nothing to do with courts.  It really doesn't have anything to do with theology.  It is just plain good old high school English grammar.  Something that I am not sure they even bother to teach anymore.  And in this case it is good old Greek grammar as well.

I am gifted in grammar and have worked as a literary editor. Believe me, 'baptizing' is in a future progressive tense and can be used in an imperative. That is what this is.
« Last Edit: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 19:08:44 by Lively Stone »

Offline gospel

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #30 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 19:32:11 »

This is by far the best answer that has been given.  However the answer to question 2 is not quite right.  In verses 19 and 20 only "go" and "make disciples" are commands. Grammatically, "baptizing" and "teaching" are not commands as such, but in fact are modifiers to the command "make disciples".  Jesus is not telling the eleven to make disciples and then baptize them and teach them; rather Jesus is telling the eleven how to make disciples.  He didn't tell them to make disciples and then baptize and teach them; instead He told them how to make disciples.

Suppose I had a roof that had been damaged in one way or another or it was just getting old and needed some upkeep.  I might call a roofing contractor to give me and estimate of what it would cost.  I might tell him, "I want you to fix my roof, inspecting it completely, replacing any rotted or otherwise damaged wood and putting new shingles on the entire roof." Grammatically, "inspecting", "replacing" and "putting" are modifiers describing what I mean by "fix",  It is a description of what how to fix the roof.

"Go, baptizing" is a complete command that tells the disciples to do two things.

If the courts took your understanding of the mandate, you would not have a leg to stand on in court should your errant roofer ignore the inclusions.

Lively,

I am sorry but you are wrong.  It has nothing to do with courts.  It really doesn't have anything to do with theology.  It is just plain good old high school English grammar.  Something that I am not sure they even bother to teach anymore.  And in this case it is good old Greek grammar as well.

I am gifted in grammar and have worked as a literary editor. Believe me, 'baptizing' is in a future progressive tense and can be used in an imperative. That is what this is.

 ::smile::


Offline P.F.

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #31 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 19:35:43 »
Why not focus on the text instead of who is "gifted in grammar?"

Is a disciple necessarily a Christian in this passage?

Offline gospel

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #32 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 19:44:25 »
Why not focus on the text instead of who is "gifted in grammar?"

Is a disciple necessarily a Christian in this passage?

Sounds like a plan to me!  ::shrug::

Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #33 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 19:45:48 »
1Cor 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

If we put together the four gospels... this is how they will end.... (I believe the 500 witnesses are in this group).  Here is how that happened...

Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, And he led them out as far as to Bethany, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

So then after the Lord had spoken these things unto them, he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. And it came to pass, while he blessed them, while they beheld, he was taken up; he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven, he was received up into heaven, and a cloud received him out of their sight, and sat on the right hand of God. And they worshipped him. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven?  This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
And they returned with great joy unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a Sabbath day's journey. And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.  

And there are also many other things, many other signs, which Jesus truly did, in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: And, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. Amen.

THE END

Every time someone was baptized in the Bible, it was never done in the literal name of “Father, Son and Holy Ghost

Offline gospel

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Re: Matthew 28:16-20
« Reply #34 on: Thu Aug 25, 2011 - 19:48:53 »
Why not focus on the text instead of who is "gifted in grammar?"

Is a disciple necessarily a Christian in this passage?

Sounds like a plan to me!  ::shrug::

 

     
anything