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Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #135 on: April 05, 2012, 10:43:03 AM »
Quote
I take it that you either don't know the Bible, Or what the catholics teach, Because the catholic teachins does contradict the Bible.
You won't give me a chance to prove it.

Well since you are the one claiming Catholic teachings are not in line with the Bible, and you believe you can prove it, why not take the initiative yourself? Take one of the core Catholic teachings you posted earlier and illustrate how it's wrong according to the Bible.

I think it's a little unfair to claim that you can "prove" Catholic teachings wrong, then demand that Catholics offer up specific doctrines to be scrutinized. It's your claim, and as such the onus is on you to verify that claim.


My point is to see if any catholic has enough confidence in the catholic teachings for it to stand the Biblical test.

I have already proved that catholics aren't baptised, As they aren't baptised the Biblical way., See, "One baptism"

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #135 on: April 05, 2012, 10:43:03 AM »

Offline winsome

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #136 on: April 05, 2012, 10:57:10 AM »
Quote
I take it that you either don't know the Bible, Or what the catholics teach, Because the catholic teachins does contradict the Bible.
You won't give me a chance to prove it.

Well since you are the one claiming Catholic teachings are not in line with the Bible, and you believe you can prove it, why not take the initiative yourself? Take one of the core Catholic teachings you posted earlier and illustrate how it's wrong according to the Bible.

I think it's a little unfair to claim that you can "prove" Catholic teachings wrong, then demand that Catholics offer up specific doctrines to be scrutinized. It's your claim, and as such the onus is on you to verify that claim.

Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.  ::nodding::
What is good has been explained to you, man; this is what the Lord asks of you: only this, to act justly, to love tenderly and to walk humbly with your God. (Micah 6:8)

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #136 on: April 05, 2012, 10:57:10 AM »

Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #137 on: April 06, 2012, 04:20:05 AM »
Quote
I take it that you either don't know the Bible, Or what the catholics teach, Because the catholic teachins does contradict the Bible.
You won't give me a chance to prove it.

Well since you are the one claiming Catholic teachings are not in line with the Bible, and you believe you can prove it, why not take the initiative yourself? Take one of the core Catholic teachings you posted earlier and illustrate how it's wrong according to the Bible.

I think it's a little unfair to claim that you can "prove" Catholic teachings wrong, then demand that Catholics offer up specific doctrines to be scrutinized. It's your claim, and as such the onus is on you to verify that claim.

Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.  ::nodding::


Only because you can't prove the catholic teachings are in the Bible.

Offline winsome

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #138 on: April 06, 2012, 05:40:44 AM »
Quote
I take it that you either don't know the Bible, Or what the catholics teach, Because the catholic teachins does contradict the Bible.
You won't give me a chance to prove it.

Well since you are the one claiming Catholic teachings are not in line with the Bible, and you believe you can prove it, why not take the initiative yourself? Take one of the core Catholic teachings you posted earlier and illustrate how it's wrong according to the Bible.

I think it's a little unfair to claim that you can "prove" Catholic teachings wrong, then demand that Catholics offer up specific doctrines to be scrutinized. It's your claim, and as such the onus is on you to verify that claim.

Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.  ::nodding::


Only because you can't prove the catholic teachings are in the Bible.

I don't have to. You are the one that made thr rash claim

"Give me one catholic teaching, And I will prove to you from the Bible that it isn't scriptural."

Just admit that you cannot do it.

As I said no catholic doctrine contradicts scripture.
What is good has been explained to you, man; this is what the Lord asks of you: only this, to act justly, to love tenderly and to walk humbly with your God. (Micah 6:8)

Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #139 on: April 06, 2012, 09:29:33 AM »
Quote
I take it that you either don't know the Bible, Or what the catholics teach, Because the catholic teachins does contradict the Bible.
You won't give me a chance to prove it.

Well since you are the one claiming Catholic teachings are not in line with the Bible, and you believe you can prove it, why not take the initiative yourself? Take one of the core Catholic teachings you posted earlier and illustrate how it's wrong according to the Bible.

I think it's a little unfair to claim that you can "prove" Catholic teachings wrong, then demand that Catholics offer up specific doctrines to be scrutinized. It's your claim, and as such the onus is on you to verify that claim.

Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.  ::nodding::


Only because you can't prove the catholic teachings are in the Bible.

I don't have to. You are the one that made thr rash claim

"Give me one catholic teaching, And I will prove to you from the Bible that it isn't scriptural."

Just admit that you cannot do it.

As I said no catholic doctrine contradicts scripture.


Here is one catholic doctrine you wont find in the Bible.
Praying to the departed, The departed praying for us, And praying for the dead.
When the rich man tried to interceed for his family, Abraham rebuked him.

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #139 on: April 06, 2012, 09:29:33 AM »



Offline winsome

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #140 on: April 06, 2012, 10:35:37 AM »
Quote
I take it that you either don't know the Bible, Or what the catholics teach, Because the catholic teachins does contradict the Bible.
You won't give me a chance to prove it.

Well since you are the one claiming Catholic teachings are not in line with the Bible, and you believe you can prove it, why not take the initiative yourself? Take one of the core Catholic teachings you posted earlier and illustrate how it's wrong according to the Bible.

I think it's a little unfair to claim that you can "prove" Catholic teachings wrong, then demand that Catholics offer up specific doctrines to be scrutinized. It's your claim, and as such the onus is on you to verify that claim.

Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.  ::nodding::


Only because you can't prove the catholic teachings are in the Bible.

I don't have to. You are the one that made thr rash claim

"Give me one catholic teaching, And I will prove to you from the Bible that it isn't scriptural."

Just admit that you cannot do it.

As I said no catholic doctrine contradicts scripture.


Here is one catholic doctrine you wont find in the Bible.
Praying to the departed, The departed praying for us, And praying for the dead.

How does that contradict scripture?

When the rich man tried to interceed for his family, Abraham rebuked him.

Would you have a reference for that?


What is good has been explained to you, man; this is what the Lord asks of you: only this, to act justly, to love tenderly and to walk humbly with your God. (Micah 6:8)

Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #141 on: April 06, 2012, 01:08:34 PM »
Quote
I take it that you either don't know the Bible, Or what the catholics teach, Because the catholic teachins does contradict the Bible.
You won't give me a chance to prove it.

Well since you are the one claiming Catholic teachings are not in line with the Bible, and you believe you can prove it, why not take the initiative yourself? Take one of the core Catholic teachings you posted earlier and illustrate how it's wrong according to the Bible.

I think it's a little unfair to claim that you can "prove" Catholic teachings wrong, then demand that Catholics offer up specific doctrines to be scrutinized. It's your claim, and as such the onus is on you to verify that claim.

Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.  ::nodding::


Only because you can't prove the catholic teachings are in the Bible.

I don't have to. You are the one that made thr rash claim

"Give me one catholic teaching, And I will prove to you from the Bible that it isn't scriptural."

Just admit that you cannot do it.

As I said no catholic doctrine contradicts scripture.


Here is one catholic doctrine you wont find in the Bible.
Praying to the departed, The departed praying for us, And praying for the dead.

How does that contradict scripture?

When the rich man tried to interceed for his family, Abraham rebuked him.

Would you have a reference for that?




1)Praying to the departed, and the departed praying for us, And praying for the dead, Contradict scrpture, Because they aren't found in the Bible.

2)Lk 16: 19--31.

Offline winsome

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #142 on: April 06, 2012, 02:04:18 PM »
Quote
I take it that you either don't know the Bible, Or what the catholics teach, Because the catholic teachins does contradict the Bible.
You won't give me a chance to prove it.

Well since you are the one claiming Catholic teachings are not in line with the Bible, and you believe you can prove it, why not take the initiative yourself? Take one of the core Catholic teachings you posted earlier and illustrate how it's wrong according to the Bible.

I think it's a little unfair to claim that you can "prove" Catholic teachings wrong, then demand that Catholics offer up specific doctrines to be scrutinized. It's your claim, and as such the onus is on you to verify that claim.

Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.  ::nodding::


Only because you can't prove the catholic teachings are in the Bible.

I don't have to. You are the one that made thr rash claim

"Give me one catholic teaching, And I will prove to you from the Bible that it isn't scriptural."

Just admit that you cannot do it.

As I said no catholic doctrine contradicts scripture.


Here is one catholic doctrine you wont find in the Bible.
Praying to the departed, The departed praying for us, And praying for the dead.

How does that contradict scripture?

When the rich man tried to interceed for his family, Abraham rebuked him.

Would you have a reference for that?




1)Praying to the departed, and the departed praying for us, And praying for the dead, Contradict scrpture, Because they aren't found in the Bible.

How can they contradict scripture if, as you claim, they are not in scripture?

2)Lk 16: 19--31.

That's because Lazarus was not in heaven and the Saints we pray to are in heaven. The situation is not the same.
What is good has been explained to you, man; this is what the Lord asks of you: only this, to act justly, to love tenderly and to walk humbly with your God. (Micah 6:8)

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #143 on: April 06, 2012, 02:37:50 PM »

Here is one catholic doctrine you wont find in the Bible.
Praying to the departed, The departed praying for us, And praying for the dead.


When the rich man tried to interceed for his family, Abraham rebuked him.


Quote from: Dr. Truth
1)Praying to the departed, and the departed praying for us, And praying for the dead, Contradict scrpture, Because they aren't found in the Bible.

2)Lk 16: 19--31.


An interesting thought. The rich man though dead in the grave was praying for the living. Abraham though in Paradise was answering. The answer to sending one to the rich man's brothers is that they wouldn't listen. One (Jesus) did go to all from the dead.

Another reason Catholics pray for the dead when we wonder at the thought is found in the Apocrypha Protestants do not regard as scripture; they do and the following is an example of leading to their thinking.

2 Machabees 12:42-44 ". . the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain. [43] And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, [44] (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)

Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #144 on: April 07, 2012, 02:41:33 AM »
Quote
I take it that you either don't know the Bible, Or what the catholics teach, Because the catholic teachins does contradict the Bible.
You won't give me a chance to prove it.

Well since you are the one claiming Catholic teachings are not in line with the Bible, and you believe you can prove it, why not take the initiative yourself? Take one of the core Catholic teachings you posted earlier and illustrate how it's wrong according to the Bible.

I think it's a little unfair to claim that you can "prove" Catholic teachings wrong, then demand that Catholics offer up specific doctrines to be scrutinized. It's your claim, and as such the onus is on you to verify that claim.

Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.  ::nodding::


Only because you can't prove the catholic teachings are in the Bible.

I don't have to. You are the one that made thr rash claim

"Give me one catholic teaching, And I will prove to you from the Bible that it isn't scriptural."

Just admit that you cannot do it.

As I said no catholic doctrine contradicts scripture.


Here is one catholic doctrine you wont find in the Bible.
Praying to the departed, The departed praying for us, And praying for the dead.

How does that contradict scripture?

When the rich man tried to interceed for his family, Abraham rebuked him.

Would you have a reference for that?




1)Praying to the departed, and the departed praying for us, And praying for the dead, Contradict scrpture, Because they aren't found in the Bible.

How can they contradict scripture if, as you claim, they are not in scripture?

2)Lk 16: 19--31.

That's because Lazarus was not in heaven and the Saints we pray to are in heaven. The situation is not the same.


That is a cop-out, There is no scriptures that say we pray to the saints in heaven.

The Hebrew Bible text tells us that the departed don't know what is going on in the  earth, So how can they hear our prayers??.

At the end of the Apostle Paul's life, He said he has finished his course,
Acts 20: 24.  2 Tim 4: 7.
Paul also said  to the Philippian Church,  "It is more needful for you if I stay".
He didn't say he would go to heaven and he will pray for us, Or he will hear and answear our prayers. Did he??
NO..NO.. When a saint has gone to be with the Lord, Their work is finnished.

Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #145 on: April 07, 2012, 02:52:01 AM »

Here is one catholic doctrine you wont find in the Bible.
Praying to the departed, The departed praying for us, And praying for the dead.


When the rich man tried to interceed for his family, Abraham rebuked him.


Quote from: Dr. Truth
1)Praying to the departed, and the departed praying for us, And praying for the dead, Contradict scrpture, Because they aren't found in the Bible.

2)Lk 16: 19--31.


An interesting thought. The rich man though dead in the grave was praying for the living. Abraham though in Paradise was answering. The answer to sending one to the rich man's brothers is that they wouldn't listen. One (Jesus) did go to all from the dead.

Another reason Catholics pray for the dead when we wonder at the thought is found in the Apocrypha Protestants do not regard as scripture; they do and the following is an example of leading to their thinking.

2 Machabees 12:42-44 ". . the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain. [43] And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, [44] (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)



1)When The rich man tried to interceed for his family, He got rebuled by Abraham.

2)What the catholics don't tell us is, Those books weren't in the original Bible, The catholics added those after.
For instance, They wanted to a doctrine of praying for the dead, So they looked for something that would back it up, Then they found the book of Machabees.

Then they criticised Luther for restoring the Bible to it's righ number of books.

3)The book of Machabees is unscriptural, The bIble doesn't teach giving silver or money as an offereing for the sins of the dead.
It is to late once a person dies.

Offline winsome

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #146 on: April 07, 2012, 03:28:24 AM »
Quote
I take it that you either don't know the Bible, Or what the catholics teach, Because the catholic teachins does contradict the Bible.
You won't give me a chance to prove it.

Well since you are the one claiming Catholic teachings are not in line with the Bible, and you believe you can prove it, why not take the initiative yourself? Take one of the core Catholic teachings you posted earlier and illustrate how it's wrong according to the Bible.

I think it's a little unfair to claim that you can "prove" Catholic teachings wrong, then demand that Catholics offer up specific doctrines to be scrutinized. It's your claim, and as such the onus is on you to verify that claim.

Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.  ::nodding::


Only because you can't prove the catholic teachings are in the Bible.

I don't have to. You are the one that made thr rash claim

"Give me one catholic teaching, And I will prove to you from the Bible that it isn't scriptural."

Just admit that you cannot do it.

As I said no catholic doctrine contradicts scripture.


Here is one catholic doctrine you wont find in the Bible.
Praying to the departed, The departed praying for us, And praying for the dead.

How does that contradict scripture?

When the rich man tried to interceed for his family, Abraham rebuked him.

Would you have a reference for that?




1)Praying to the departed, and the departed praying for us, And praying for the dead, Contradict scrpture, Because they aren't found in the Bible.

How can they contradict scripture if, as you claim, they are not in scripture?

2)Lk 16: 19--31.

That's because Lazarus was not in heaven and the Saints we pray to are in heaven. The situation is not the same.


That is a cop-out, There is no scriptures that say we pray to the saints in heaven.

It doesn't contradict scripture.

The Hebrew Bible text tells us that the departed don't know what is going on in the  earth, So how can they hear our prayers??.

Why is it you don't give scripture references when you make claims like that?

At the end of the Apostle Paul's life, He said he has finished his course,
Acts 20: 24.  2 Tim 4: 7.
Paul also said  to the Philippian Church,  "It is more needful for you if I stay".
He didn't say he would go to heaven and he will pray for us, Or he will hear and answear our prayers. Did he??

That proves nothing. You are arguing from silence.

Paul wanted to stay to continue to preach the gospel.

No point in preaching the gospel to those in heaven.

NO..NO.. When a saint has gone to be with the Lord, Their work is finnished.

Where does it say that in scripture?

What is good has been explained to you, man; this is what the Lord asks of you: only this, to act justly, to love tenderly and to walk humbly with your God. (Micah 6:8)

Offline winsome

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #147 on: April 07, 2012, 03:37:08 AM »
Dr. Truth,

I have been pondering about answering this in detail as I am going away for a week from tomorrow morning.

I will be taking my old laptop with me but I will be restricted as to time and connection. I’m not even 100% sure I will have a connection.

Do you want to wait until I get back to continue this, or make a start now and hope that I can continue during the week?

In the meantime don’t hold back from answering my previous posts.  ::smile::
What is good has been explained to you, man; this is what the Lord asks of you: only this, to act justly, to love tenderly and to walk humbly with your God. (Micah 6:8)

Offline winsome

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #148 on: April 07, 2012, 03:45:40 AM »

Here is one catholic doctrine you wont find in the Bible.
Praying to the departed, The departed praying for us, And praying for the dead.


When the rich man tried to interceed for his family, Abraham rebuked him.


Quote from: Dr. Truth
1)Praying to the departed, and the departed praying for us, And praying for the dead, Contradict scrpture, Because they aren't found in the Bible.

2)Lk 16: 19--31.


An interesting thought. The rich man though dead in the grave was praying for the living. Abraham though in Paradise was answering. The answer to sending one to the rich man's brothers is that they wouldn't listen. One (Jesus) did go to all from the dead.

Another reason Catholics pray for the dead when we wonder at the thought is found in the Apocrypha Protestants do not regard as scripture; they do and the following is an example of leading to their thinking.

2 Machabees 12:42-44 ". . the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain. [43] And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, [44] (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)



1)When The rich man tried to interceed for his family, He got rebuled by Abraham.

I wouln't say rebiuked. More tlike told it was pointless.


2)What the catholics don't tell us is, Those books weren't in the original Bible, The catholics added those after.
For instance, They wanted to a doctrine of praying for the dead, So they looked for something that would back it up, Then they found the book of Machabees.

Complete rubbish.

The Church used the Greek LXX Old Testament from the beginning.

It's a fact that most Jews of Jesus time, including Jesus used the Greek LXX.


Then they criticised Luther for restoring the Bible to it's righ number of books.

Luther removed books from the Bible. That's a FACT.

He also tried to remove NT books. He called the Epistle of James a book of straw and tiook it out of his early editions, and (I think Revelation)


3)The book of Machabees is unscriptural, The bIble doesn't teach giving silver or money as an offereing for the sins of the dead.
It is to late once a person dies.

The book of Maccabees was scriptural from the beginning and was for all Christians until Luther and the other "reformers" took it out.
What is good has been explained to you, man; this is what the Lord asks of you: only this, to act justly, to love tenderly and to walk humbly with your God. (Micah 6:8)

Offline Dr. Truth

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #149 on: April 07, 2012, 06:44:25 AM »
Quote
I take it that you either don't know the Bible, Or what the catholics teach, Because the catholic teachins does contradict the Bible.
You won't give me a chance to prove it.

Well since you are the one claiming Catholic teachings are not in line with the Bible, and you believe you can prove it, why not take the initiative yourself? Take one of the core Catholic teachings you posted earlier and illustrate how it's wrong according to the Bible.

I think it's a little unfair to claim that you can "prove" Catholic teachings wrong, then demand that Catholics offer up specific doctrines to be scrutinized. It's your claim, and as such the onus is on you to verify that claim.

Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.  ::nodding::


Only because you can't prove the catholic teachings are in the Bible.

I don't have to. You are the one that made thr rash claim

"Give me one catholic teaching, And I will prove to you from the Bible that it isn't scriptural."

Just admit that you cannot do it.

As I said no catholic doctrine contradicts scripture.


Here is one catholic doctrine you wont find in the Bible.
Praying to the departed, The departed praying for us, And praying for the dead.

How does that contradict scripture?

When the rich man tried to interceed for his family, Abraham rebuked him.

Would you have a reference for that?




1)Praying to the departed, and the departed praying for us, And praying for the dead, Contradict scrpture, Because they aren't found in the Bible.

How can they contradict scripture if, as you claim, they are not in scripture?

2)Lk 16: 19--31.

That's because Lazarus was not in heaven and the Saints we pray to are in heaven. The situation is not the same.


That is a cop-out, There is no scriptures that say we pray to the saints in heaven.

It doesn't contradict scripture.

The Hebrew Bible text tells us that the departed don't know what is going on in the  earth, So how can they hear our prayers??.

Why is it you don't give scripture references when you make claims like that?

At the end of the Apostle Paul's life, He said he has finished his course,
Acts 20: 24.  2 Tim 4: 7.
Paul also said  to the Philippian Church,  "It is more needful for you if I stay".
He didn't say he would go to heaven and he will pray for us, Or he will hear and answear our prayers. Did he??

That proves nothing. You are arguing from silence.

Paul wanted to stay to continue to preach the gospel.

No point in preaching the gospel to those in heaven.

NO..NO.. When a saint has gone to be with the Lord, Their work is finnished.

Where does it say that in scripture?






1)Ecclesiastes 9: 5. &v10. Says the dead don't know anything, And don't do any work.
If the dead don't know anything, How can they know when you are praying to them??
How can they know  what to pray for you  and how to pray for you.

2)Stop twisting Phil 1: 24. Paul said to stay it is more needful for you.
If he went to heaven, He couldn't help them.
Preaching the gospel to the Philippian Christians wouldn't be any use to them, They were already saved, So how could Paul preaching the gospel to them, be needful???
Can't you see how you are twisting the scripturs??.

3)I have given you two scriptures where Paul mentions finishing his cours.
Act 20: 24.   2 Tim 4: 7... He never mentioned anything about going to heaven and praying for them, Or they could pray to him.