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Author Topic: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?  (Read 2398 times)

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Offline 3 Resurrections

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Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« on: Sun Jan 24, 2021 - 09:29:32 »
I’m going to poke the sacred cow with this question.  As Americans, this concept is deeply ingrained into our patriotic subconscious.  The nation was founded with this freedom, and the saints, for the most part, have enjoyed unheard-of opportunities because of it.

But think of this from God’s perspective.  A certain “Freedom of religion” throughout all of history has meant that men have been granted a choice of picking whatever made-up deity they have been pleased to invent, combined with whatever abominable practices they have selected to honor those false gods.  Child sacrifice...ritual prostitution...worship of devils...genocide...wars...you name it, these evils have all been done in the name of religion. 

My contention is that when God draws human history to a close, this “freedom of religion” that God has permitted (but not approved) will be finally purged from the planet so that the single, unadulterated worship of God will stand alone without any idolatrous competition.

Freedom of religion is not all that it’s cracked up to be, when put in the hands of sinful men.  As long as we are in this condition, it inevitably becomes a corrupted means of further expressing that sinfulness.  Fortunately, as Paul said, “The Spirit of God is not bound.”  True and absolute freedom of religion is found there and nowhere else.

Yes or no anybody?

Offline RB

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #1 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 04:06:37 »
My contention is that when God draws human history to a close, this “freedom of religion” that God has permitted (but not approved) will be finally purged from the planet so that the single, unadulterated worship of God will stand alone without any idolatrous competition.
I agreed with this statement 100%.
Quote
Freedom of religion is not all that it’s cracked up to be, when put in the hands of sinful men.  As long as we are in this condition, it inevitably becomes a corrupted means of further expressing that sinfulness.  Fortunately, as Paul said, “The Spirit of God is not bound.”  True and absolute freedom of religion is found there and nowhere else.
My first thoughts are with this statement is I disagreed ~The reason why is this: By the fact that man by nature is misotheism being, thereby, the only means whereby God's children can express themselves in such a society is to have freedom of religion .  Please consider among many that I could provide these words: https://nccs.net/blogs/articles/strong-warnings-from-the-founders

Offline 4WD

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 04:46:13 »
My contention is that when God draws human history to a close, this “freedom of religion” that God has permitted (but not approved) will be finally purged from the planet so that the single, unadulterated worship of God will stand alone without any idolatrous competition.
But that purging will not be the result of the lack of freedom of religion.  It will be because those who are there have freely chosen God.
Quote from: 3 Resurrections
But think of this from God’s perspective.  A certain “Freedom of religion” throughout all of history has meant that men have been granted a choice of picking whatever made-up deity they have been pleased to invent, combined with whatever abominable practices they have selected to honor those false gods.  Child sacrifice...ritual prostitution...worship of devils...genocide...wars...you name it, these evils have all been done in the name of religion. 
That God despises the choice of religions that some have made does not mean that he is against the freedom to choose.  That after all is a primary reason for the creation of this world to begin with, namely, to build of body of believers, believers who freely choose God. Jesus declared that He would build His church; what is His church but the body of those who have freely chosen to obey the gospel. 
Quote from: 3 Resurrections
Freedom of religion is not all that it’s cracked up to be, when put in the hands of sinful men. 
Freedom of religion was established as the First Amendment in the Constitution of the United States of America; and that by sinful men. I doubt that there was a single founder that would argue that he was not sinful.
Quote from: 3 Resurrections
Yes or no anybody?
Absolutely YES.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:14:09 »
Here is what God says about "freedom of religion:"

Exodus 20:3
“You shall have no other gods before Me."

Offline 4WD

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:17:53 »
Here is what God says about "freedom of religion:"

Exodus 20:3
“You shall have no other gods before Me."

That has nothing to do with freedom of religion.  If it did, God would have simply eliminated all those other gods and the religions result.  That was a command that God issued that man, by God's own will, is free to obey or not.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:21:45 »
That God despises the choice of religions that some have made does not mean that he is against the freedom to choose.  ....  Freedom of religion was established as the First Amendment in the Constitution of the United States of America; and that by sinful men.
I would say that God despises the REASON behind the framers of the US constitution adding that "right" in the document.

The "church leaders" weaponized their established denomination (the Church of England) against all other denominations and groups.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:23:47 »
That has nothing to do with freedom of religion.  If it did, God would have simply eliminated all those other gods and the religions result.  That was a command that God issued that man, by God's own will, is free to obey or not.
Of course it is a freedom of religion thing.

It says I am NOT free to believe in the Great Pumpkin, or whatever is the local "god" of belly button lint.

When Israel left Egypt in the Exodus, was God in favor of Pharaoh and the rest of his people believing in Ra, the sun god, hapi, the Nile river god or Atum the god of darkness?  NO!

Edit to add:

Do you really think that on Judgement Day God will accept "No I did not believe in you, i believe in Buddha."  Or Krishna, or Zeus or Athena or Odin?  NO. 
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:31:39 by DaveW »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #7 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:54:47 »
Of course it is a freedom of religion thing.
Of course it is not.
Quote from: DaveW
It says I am NOT free to believe in the Great Pumpkin, or whatever is the local "god" of belly button lint.
Nothing is preventing you from believing in any of that.  And that is by God's choice.
Quote from: DaveW
When Israel left Egypt in the Exodus, was God in favor of Pharaoh and the rest of his people believing in Ra, the sun god, hapi, the Nile river god or Atum the god of darkness?  NO!
God is not in favor of sin, but He has given you the freedom to sin all you want.
Quote from: DaveW
Do you really think that on Judgement Day God will accept "No I did not believe in you, i believe in Buddha."  Or Krishna, or Zeus or Athena or Odin?  NO.
Of course not, but God didn't keep you from believing in whatever you chose.

It is similar to what my dad use to tell me. He would say to me, "I can't make you do anything, but I can sure make you wish you had." In God's relationship with man, He says, "I won't make you do anything, but I will make you wish you had."

Offline 4WD

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:57:01 »
I would say that God despises the REASON behind the framers of the US constitution adding that "right" in the document.

The "church leaders" weaponized their established denomination (the Church of England) against all other denominations and groups.

So what?

Offline DaveW

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #9 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 06:14:22 »
Of course it is not.Nothing is preventing you from believing in any of that.  And that is by God's choice.God is not in favor of sin, but He has given you the freedom to sin all you want.Of course not, but God didn't keep you from believing in whatever you chose.

It is similar to what my dad use to tell me. He would say to me, "I can't make you do anything, but I can sure make you wish you had." In God's relationship with man, He says, "I won't make you do anything, but I will make you wish you had."

I think you and I have different views of "freedom." 
You are not free to do something if there are negative consequences attached to that.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #10 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 06:18:20 »
I think you and I have different views of "freedom." 
You are not free to do something if there are negative consequences attached to that.
With that I am beginning to understand some of your really strange thinking.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #11 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 06:27:44 »
With that I am beginning to understand some of your really strange thinking.
The question in the OP was "Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?"

If He did, He would impose no negative consequences for believing in any old tin can as "god."

Do we have freedom to murder in the US?  No.  Can we choose to do so?  Yes as it has been done thousands of times. But there are consequences and therefore it is NOT a freedom. 

Freedom of religion as enshrined in the Bill of Rights says there are no government-imposed sanctions or consequences for believing and worshiping the tin can.  God does NOT agree.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #12 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 06:32:29 »
Appreciate the responses, people.  The reason I brought this subject up is due to a conversation I recently had with my liberal-leaning daughter after this year’s inauguration. 

The question being: Why would our nation (initially founded on freedom of religion) be currently defaulting MORE quickly into insane, self-destructive wickedness than previous immoral empires that had no such foundation?  Think how young we are as a nation compared to history’s record of long-enduring empirical powers.  It would seem that the MORE religious freedom that a nation is given at the outset only provides GREATER impetus to default to natural wickedness EVEN SOONER than it would have if not given that freedom. 

RB, I read your link, and nothing in it seems to contradict the point I’m making, but rather seems to confirm it.  You said, “...the only means whereby God’s children can express themselves in such a society is by freedom of religion.”  Hmmmm, not quite true.  Think about Paul and Silas in the Philippian jail’s inner prison, beaten and bound in stocks as punishment for the effects of their gospel preaching.  One would think they had lost their freedom of religion, but NO.  They were singing songs to God in the middle of the night , which all the prisoners and the jailor were hearing.  The result of their confinement was an earthquake that broke the prison doors and every chain in the jail.  Given that opportunity of FLEEING the jail and regaining their freedom of religion, Paul and Silas and all the prisoners chose to STAY confined in the jail - which resulted in the jailor and all his house confessing faith in Christ. 

So it would seem that the tighter freedom of religion is confined, the faster it spreads.  Doesn’t make sense in the natural world, but we serve a God who does things in upside-down fashion.

Dave W, looks as if you and I are thinking on the same wave-length on this one.  Love your “Great Pumpkin” and navel lint examples.  Made me laugh.

4WD,  I would counter your comment about mankind “freely choosing God” with God’s observation about mankind’s natural inclinations in Psalms 14:2-3  “The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were ANY that did understand, and seek God.  They are ALL gone aside, they are ALL together become filthy: there is NONE that doeth good, no not one.”  And Paul echoes that in Romans 3:10-12.  “There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God...”.

Left to ourselves, and given widespread “freedom of religion”, without the Spirit intervening, mankind defaults into making suicidal spiritual choices all the sooner.  America’s rapidly-descending morals seem to prove that scripture to be absolutely true. 

Offline 4WD

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #13 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 06:42:12 »
The question in the OP was "Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?"

If He did, He would impose no negative consequences for believing in any old tin can as "god."

Do we have freedom to murder in the US?  No.  Can we choose to do so?  Yes as it has been done thousands of times. But there are consequences and therefore it is NOT a freedom. 

Freedom of religion as enshrined in the Bill of Rights says there are no government-imposed sanctions or consequences for believing and worshiping the tin can.  God does NOT agree.
Freedom to say or do something does not mean freedom from the consequences.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #14 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 06:50:36 »
The question being: Why would our nation (initially founded on freedom of religion) be currently defaulting MORE quickly into insane, self-destructive wickedness than previous immoral empires that had no such foundation?  Think how young we are as a nation compared to history’s record of long-enduring empirical powers.  It would seem that the MORE religious freedom that a nation is given at the outset only provides GREATER impetus to default to natural wickedness EVEN SOONER than it would have if not given that freedom. 
I think it is important to remember that people choosing non-christian religions was NOT on the minds of the constitutional framers.  It was freedom of which denomination to follow. The Church of England had imposed taxes in all the colonies which were the tithes to support Church of England parishes.  If you attended Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) or a Lutheran congregation, you STILL had to pay the Church of England.  It is why they outlawed a state-mandated denomination. 

Quote
So it would seem that the tighter freedom of religion is confined, the faster it spreads.  Doesn’t make sense in the natural world, but we serve a God who does things in upside-down fashion.
An odd occurrence to be sure, but it seems persecution makes religion spread and even flourish; even false religion. The Red Chinese found that out a few decades back with the Falun Gong cult.  The more they tried to shut it down the faster it gained followers. Finally they stopped and it just kinda fizzled.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #15 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 06:54:47 »
Freedom to say or do something does not mean freedom from the consequences.
Of course it does.

If it did not, we would have a freedom to steal, freedom to murder, etc.
Show me where the constitution says that.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #16 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 06:56:55 »
4WD,  I would counter your comment about mankind “freely choosing God” with God’s observation about mankind’s natural inclinations in Psalms 14:2-3  “The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were ANY that did understand, and seek God.  They are ALL gone aside, they are ALL together become filthy: there is NONE that doeth good, no not one.”  And Paul echoes that in Romans 3:10-12.  “There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God...”.
You and so many others grossly misinterpret and misunderstand such passages.  The entire history of mankind shows that virtually every group, every tribe, every nation indeed searches desperately after gods.  Man cannot seek after God unless and until God, Himself, first reveals Himself.  And that He has done.  And He has done that through man.  He continues to do that through man.  That you interpret such passages as God having failed in doing so is rather strange to say the least.  And you need to relook your interpretation of what constitutes "good" in such passages. Consider Mark 10:18.

Never forget that Romans 3:10-12 applies to you as well as it does to anyone else.  You might spend some time thinking on that.
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 07:12:19 by 4WD »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #17 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 07:01:13 »
Of course it does.

If it did not, we would have a freedom to steal, freedom to murder, etc.
Show me where the constitution says that.
Your can choose to steal, murder, etc.; you only have to live with the consequences. Otherwise there would be no such thing as choice.  But then I am guessing that is precisely what you think.

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #18 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 07:04:45 »
I think it is important to remember that people choosing non-christian religions was NOT on the minds of the constitutional framers. 
So then, you think the framer's intention was to prohibit non-Christian religions?  What lunacy ! !

Offline DaveW

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #19 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 07:44:13 »
Your can choose to steal, murder, etc.; you only have to live with the consequences. Otherwise there would be no such thing as choice.  But then I am guessing that is precisely what you think.
Of course you deal with consequences.

But that is NEITHER a freedom or a right. 

BTW - if murder had been listed as a right, how would that affect your answers here?
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 07:46:56 by DaveW »

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #20 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 07:50:02 »
Of course you deal with consequences.

But that is NEITHER a freedom or a right. 

BTW - if murder had been listed as a right, how would that affect your answers here?
Freedom and right are not the same at all.  I think all that block logic must be getting to you.

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #21 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 08:35:22 »
Here is what God says about "freedom of religion:"
Exodus 20:3“You shall have no other gods before Me."
Dave, no one is saying that there will be no consequence in following after other gods other than The True God~ for they are indeed~so your argument is a strawman argument in this debate. You are attacking the strawman that you have created, instead of addressing the argument.
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 08:46:17 by RB »

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #22 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 08:44:52 »
RB, I read your link, and nothing in it seems to contradict the point I’m making, but rather seems to confirm it.  You said, “...the only means whereby God’s children can express themselves in such a society is by freedom of religion.”  Hmmmm, not quite true.
You better believe that it is so. Your example proves nothing in this debate. I will prove why your example carries no weight when I have more time, I'm working on another project at the moment.

Our founding fathers would strongly disagree with you.

This was short, but later I will say more. RB

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #23 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 10:50:25 »
4WD is absolutely correct here, we are free to do whatever we please if we accept that there are consequences attached to every action.

Also, I think "approve" is the wrong context for this discussion, "allow" is a more accurate terminology.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #24 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 11:24:52 »
Hey 4WD,

Awww, bless your spotty hide, as we say here in SC.  OF COURSE I also apply Romans 3:10-12 to myself as well.  Left to my own devices without the aid of the Spirit, I would also be groping in darkness.  “It is GOD that worketh in me both to will and to do of His good pleasure.”  Any time I fall short, the failure cannot be blamed on God, but on my weakness as an “earthen vessel”.

You did state something I can totally agree with.  “Man cannot seek after God unless and until God, Himself, first reveals Himself.”  This is not your usual emphasis, but I’m glad to see we are in sync on this.

There is a bit of difference between mankind through the ages instinctively seeking to worship things called “gods” (little g) compared to them seeking after God (big G).    As created, I guess mankind is hard-wired to worship SOMETHING...ANYTHING that is more powerful than themselves.  However, that innate instinct when prompted by an unregenerate heart will only turn from the True God to alternate substitutes.  Until God FIRST steps in and makes a change by revealing Himself to the person - by whatever means.

For RB, take your time as needed to respond, but not sure why you can’t consider my example of Paul and Silas as pertinent to the point I’m  making.  The problem with “freedom of religion” from God’s perspective is exactly what you said; humanity is given the liberty of  “expressing THEMSELVES” in religion.  Not focused on expressing GOD’S nature as we were initially created to do in the Garden.

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #25 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 11:38:13 »
Hi Alan,  I deliberately used the word “approve”, because, as you are saying, this is an entirely different concept from something God “allows”.   It’s the old debate about God’s  PERMISSIVE will in contrast to His PERFECT will.  Fortunately, “He make the even the wrath of man to praise Him.  The remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.”

Evils both have and will ever be committed in the name of “freedom of religion”.  But God can cause even the most wretched misuse of His words to redound to His glory in the long run.  “His word shall not return unto Him void; but it will accomplish the thing whereunto I send it.”  (Slight paraphrase, since I don’t have Bible in front of me at the moment.)

« Last Edit: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 12:41:46 by 3 Resurrections »

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #26 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 11:54:08 »
Exodus 20:3  “You shall have no other gods before Me."

That has nothing to do with freedom of religion.  If it did, God would have simply eliminated all those other gods and the religions result.  That was a command that God issued that man, by God's own will, is free to obey or not.
You're WAY out of context here, trying to apply this to all mankind.

This command was given to the nation of Israel at Moses hand, as part of the charter of their government.  It has everything to do with freedom of religion, or rather the contrary.  The foundational command for Israel is that they will not serve any gods, except the One.

The commandment is not for all mankind.  But for those who would be part of Israel, it is a prerequisite.  There is no such thing as a Christian Polytheist.  There are no atheists in that body which is called spiritual Israel.

Jarrod

Offline DaveW

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #27 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 11:58:47 »
I deliberately used the word “approve”, because, as you are saying, this is an entirely different concept from something God “allows”. It’s the old debate about God’s  PERMISSIVE will versus His PERFECT will. 
I disagree.  God allows things (at least for a while) that are entirely outside HIS will, permissive or whatever.

Like abortion. Like witchcraft. Like adultery.

"Permissive will" may not be the PERFECT will but is still within HIS boundaries.

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #28 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 12:02:06 »
So then, you think the framer's intention was to prohibit non-Christian religions?  What lunacy ! !
They clearly did not want a federally mandated religion.  But from my reading, it seems that most of them were fine with a "state religion," as long as it was established on the state level.

I believe the framer's intent was for each state to establish a religion for itself.  Many of the colonies were founded by groups from the same church, often escaping persecution at the hands of the Anglican or Catholic church.  I do not think that it ever entered their minds that any of the states' religions would be other than some form of Christianity, although there were certainly a few atheists and a number of deists among the framers.

Jarrod


Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #29 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 12:40:17 »
Okay DaveW,  let’s see if I can pick a more accurate way of expressing that...I’ll change it to “God’s PERMISSIVE will IN CONTRAST to His PERFECT will.”  That keeps both, as you say, within God’s boundaries.  That any better? 

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #30 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 13:15:23 »
Okay DaveW,  let’s see if I can pick a more accurate way of expressing that...I’ll change it to “God’s PERMISSIVE will IN CONTRAST to His PERFECT will.”  That keeps both, as you say, within God’s boundaries.  That any better?
That works.  Just remember His permissive will is still within His will.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #31 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 14:50:58 »
This command was given to the nation of Israel at Moses hand, as part of the charter of their government.  It has everything to do with freedom of religion, or rather the contrary.  The foundational command for Israel is that they will not serve any gods, except the One.
But God did not prevent them for their idolatries, rather He made them regret their doing so.
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh
The commandment is not for all mankind.  But for those who would be part of Israel, it is a prerequisite.  There is no such thing as a Christian Polytheist.  There are no atheists in that body which is called spiritual Israel.
I intended nothing different than that.  Still, none of that prevents the freedom to choose otherwise.

Offline Rella

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #32 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 19:34:00 »
I’m going to poke the sacred cow with this question.  As Americans, this concept is deeply ingrained into our patriotic subconscious.  The nation was founded with this freedom, and the saints, for the most part, have enjoyed unheard-of opportunities because of it.

But think of this from God’s perspective.  A certain “Freedom of religion” throughout all of history has meant that men have been granted a choice of picking whatever made-up deity they have been pleased to invent, combined with whatever abominable practices they have selected to honor those false gods.  Child sacrifice...ritual prostitution...worship of devils...genocide...wars...you name it, these evils have all been done in the name of religion. 

My contention is that when God draws human history to a close, this “freedom of religion” that God has permitted (but not approved) will be finally purged from the planet so that the single, unadulterated worship of God will stand alone without any idolatrous competition.

Freedom of religion is not all that it’s cracked up to be, when put in the hands of sinful men.  As long as we are in this condition, it inevitably becomes a corrupted means of further expressing that sinfulness.  Fortunately, as Paul said, “The Spirit of God is not bound.”  True and absolute freedom of religion is found there and nowhere else.

Yes or no anybody?

I am struck by the first amendment of the US constitution.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If that were not originally put there by our forefathers then chances are we would not be having this discussion today.

Does God approve? Likely not, yet as the bible tells us... Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God... one has to assume that God did allow it for us and our freedoms.

Another thought that has not been addresses is whether God approves of freedom of
Christian religions and the variety there is. We may all believe in God, as do Jews and Muslims... and only we have an understanding of the gift to us that is Jesus... but the variety of the ways we all worship I often wonder if God approves, or not.

Offline RB

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #33 on: Tue Jan 26, 2021 - 03:56:16 »
The question being: Why would our nation (initially founded on freedom of religion) be currently defaulting MORE quickly into insane, self-destructive wickedness than previous immoral empires that had no such foundation?  Think how young we are as a nation compared to history’s record of long-enduring empirical powers.  It would seem that the MORE religious freedom that a nation is given at the outset only provides GREATER impetus to default to natural wickedness EVEN SOONER than it would have if not given that freedom. 
I'm going to try to post but we are having major thunderstorms with some hot bolts shooting all over the place and my office is in a metal building away from my house about 200' or so~very susceptible to lightning damage~thinking more so of my computers that have been hit more than once over the years. Bear with me.

You can't use freedom of religion as the means of America going down so fast from her beginning. Many factors play into why America is going down never to raise to her greatness again, never.

Beginning around the late twenties or thereabout many inventions have speed up the world's ultimate end, including America's.

I will only mention a few: Electronic television was first successfully demonstrated in San Francisco on Sept. 7, 1927. This opened up a new world of nations coming together exchanging/interacting with each other as never before. With this, we learn each other's ways and wickedness ALWAYS win over and corrupt godly ways.
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1st Corinthians 15:33~"Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners."

January 1, 1983 is considered the official birthday of the Internet. Prior to this, the various computer networks did not have a standard way to communicate with each other. A new communications protocol was established called Transfer Control Protocol/Internetwork Protocol. 

Google was founded September 4, 1998, Menlo Park, CA~now, this yet open up another avenue both for good AND EVIL.

Considering the last two mention above these have changed our world that our grandparents would have never dreamed of, not even did Bill Gates and company!

Money in today's world has increased at an unbelievable rate that this world (not just in a certain section of it, but all over) would look like paradise to our forefathers~and where there is WEALTH there is corruption and a forsaken of God, for WHO needs God when they have wealth are their thoughts inwardly!

These (more can be added, and they are coming to us at a speed that even most of us cannot even keep up with) things all have contributed to a rapid downfall of this world and America in particular~not freedom of religion, but that soon is going to be taken away, just not sure to what degree. 
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 27, 2021 - 14:14:45 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: Does God REALLY approve of freedom of religion?
« Reply #34 on: Tue Jan 26, 2021 - 04:34:49 »
RB, I read your link, and nothing in it seems to contradict the point I’m making, but rather seems to confirm it.  You said, “...the only means whereby God’s children can express themselves in such a society is by freedom of religion.”  Hmmmm, not quite true.  Think about Paul and Silas in the Philippian jail’s inner prison, beaten and bound in stocks as punishment for the effects of their gospel preaching.  One would think they had lost their freedom of religion, but NO.  They were singing songs to God in the middle of the night , which all the prisoners and the jailor were hearing.  The result of their confinement was an earthquake that broke the prison doors and every chain in the jail.  Given that opportunity of FLEEING the jail and regaining their freedom of religion, Paul and Silas and all the prisoners chose to STAY confined in the jail - which resulted in the jailor and all his house confessing faith in Christ. 
Losing the freedom of religion in the sense of not being able to express ourselves either by mouth, the press etc., and saints not loving and praising God are two different things entirely. Paul and Silas had freedom and Paul prove that this in the same context which you are presenting.
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Acts 16:35-39~"And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let those men go. And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace. But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out. And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans. And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city."
Freedom of religion and freedom of speech ARE CONNECTED, (Paul and Silas had both and used it) once this is ever taken from us then we WOULD go underground just as they have done throughout the communist countries where there is NO freedom of religion or speech, or to peaceably assemble openly.

As I said above:
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By the fact that man by nature is misotheism being, thereby, the only means whereby God's children can express themselves in such a society is to have freedom of religion.
Freedom of religion and speech is an absolute must in order for us to live without being a target for hatred, or even death and without men lording over us as their servants doing their pleasures and them using us or discarding us if a hindrance to them. Euthanasia is soon coming~it is already in Europe. 

 

     
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