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Offline PopeADope

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Thread of the loving dead
« on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 12:38:56 »

Everybody said I'm playing with fire and that it is without exception Satanic. Funny that they claim to be Bible alone Christians, but there's nothing in the Bible that condemns what I am doing.

It is true that Seances and necromancy are condemned , but I'm not summoning Spirits, neither am I praying to dead people.

Rather, the belief is that the souls in heaven are united to Christ, all that they do is made possible by his grace, and that since the same Holy Spirit Within Me is with and in them, we are connected.

Scripture makes it very clear that Elijah and Enoch are alive and well in heaven. Moses returned to Earth with Elijah and was seen by the apostles on Mount Tabor.

Abraham held the Poor Man Lazarus to his bosom and interacted with the rich ma
n. So they are very alive. Therefore I do not pray to any dead people.

So if you believe these practices are Satanic , please give your biblical explanation for why.

If you think they are useless , that is ok and understandable, but nothing changed my life more than when these souls in heaven visited me, began speaking through dreams, locutions, interior Inspirations, visions, and enormous amounts of coincidences that couldn't happen by chance.

that is something I want in my life and get more Grace from God when I go to Mary, the bride's of Christ, the Angels , and Servants of God , rather than God himself.

But doesnt mean he has assigned the same vocation, spirit guides, or spirituality to you or that's this one is superior.

The goal here is to create Christian Unity. The Coptic, the Orthodox Churches, the Catholics, the Anglicans, and Martin Luther practiced this devotion.

I know of many Protestants who put flowers on their loved one's grave and talk to them and believe they can hear from heaven, or they speak to them at their funeral.

So this philosophy and practice to one extent or another is embraced by the vast majority of Christians on Earth, and for 15 Generations it was embraced by every Christian Church on Earth, so to condemn this practice as satanic, a person is condemning the first fifteen generations of Christianity as worshipers of Satan , and then condemning most of the Christians on Earth today, which causes huge division over something that isn't even condemned in Scripture.

So you mean to say that God is a trustworthy Shepherd but he let every church for fifteen hundred years practice Satanic rituals?


This is not to defend any other teachings of the church, neither is it to promote or defend Catholicism, but rather to Simply State there is nothing the Bible speaks against the beliefs that the host of Heaven exists on Earth.

We are connected to them. They are not dead people. God is the source of their Grace and intercessory power, and they are Servants of Christ. This is nothing found in the occult.

You have a mother and family in heaven.   

In scripture God almost never works alone, he almost always communicates to people or heals them through people or Angels rather than directly from God to a person.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #1 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 13:32:11 »
we are specifically told NOT to communicate with those who have died. If you do you are opening the door to the demonic,and all those who have visited you are almost certainly demons. Talk to God through Jesus as we are TOLD to do, and repent of what you have been doing.     

Yes I have a mother and a family in heaven(not Mary,she isnt my mother)who I will one day meet again, but I never ever communicate with them now or pray to them, because its wrong and dangerous for us to do so.

Either you do what God says or not, but if you dont there are bad consequences.
« Last Edit: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 13:36:17 by chosenone »

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #2 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 15:01:00 »
As chosen said and to put it simple, it's unwise to do so because it's very easy to be deceived by a spirit masquerading as your loved one, then telling you things contrary to the Truth. It's best to just leave it alone, let the sleep remain where they are and we interact with One we know has been resurrected.

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #3 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 15:58:04 »
Why would anyone want to bother with humans that have passed?  Let them be! Let them glory in the presence of the Lord and don't trouble them with earthly woes.

Jesus is our direct access to the Father. Just call on Him!

Offline PopeADope

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #4 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 16:02:13 »
It can already be argued that Christians pray to a dead man because all historians both secular and religious agree that Jesus died.

Then in the Gospel of Matthew , after he died the dead came forth from their tombs and were interacting with people , so there is biblical basis that the dead can come back to earth.

I don't see anything in Scripture that condemns the idea that the souls in heaven can assist us.

They tell me to make all of my petitions and blessings in Jesus name and bind and rebuke evil spirits in Jesus name. The demons hate that name so it wouldn't make sense for them to tell me that.

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #4 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 16:02:13 »



Offline PopeADope

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #5 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 16:07:09 »
God meets us where we are at. I had a feeling very strong and intense that the victims Reich, (an Empire of souls who were raped, tortured, and murdered,) were with me in those 11 months in jail and still are.

I filled up notebook after notebook and stacks of paper full of all the messages it would seem they were giving.

It is all to be treated with healthy skepticism and I'm sure I was wrong about a lot of things , but with 100% certainty I know that there is a strong divine intervention behind all of this.

I developed this insatiable love God ... needless to say I thought maybe it was something satanic that was to make a shipwreck of the  faith,  yet received many confirmations that it was not all in my imagination or delusion.

Perhaps some of it was delusion, but definitely not all of it , for there was way too many Graces , coincidences, and Indescribable unprecedented experiences.

So, according to scripture we are to test all spirits , and scripture says that the spirit that confesses Jesus Christ is a good spirit and to also test the fruits.

God knows the best way to reach people and that some can relate more to less pious Americans who died after the 1950's who we have photographs and films of rather then someone 2000 years ago or a pious person in a stained glass window.

They occupy stained glass windows in the temple of my heart

They also keep nagging me to stop spending so much time on the internet. :p
« Last Edit: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 16:10:46 by PopeADope »

Offline PopeADope

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #6 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 16:09:55 »
One of the true stories precious to me does not contain anything a medical Doctor or Scientist can say is miraculous, but is still precious to me.

There was one of many souls that I believed was present with me in jail that wanted me to write prayers all the time.

Inwardly I constantly saw the French flag and the nation of France with her there with Napoleon Bonaparte, Joan of Arc, and the French Saints....(all the souls of people that died fighting for France.)

This was before the terrorist attacks. So I filled up notebooks full of prayers for France , and after the attacks I saw her picking flowers in France and bringing them to my cell, which were the victims uprooted by terrorism, whom I was to pray for , with, and keep company.

Certain she was French I called my dad to look up the last name Naslund , and I found out it was Swedish.

Then He let me know that I have swedish ancestors on my mom's side , which I didn't know, and that swedes conquered northern France, became the Normans , then invaded Great Britain and fought the Battle of Hastings for the crown of England and won.

I just happened to be in jail in the city of Hastings, and felt she was telling me that I was fighting my battle for the crown. So , I would not know I was part Swedish were it not for her.

The only piece of money I saw in 11 months was a 1974 penny, dated the year she was murdered, so it became a special penny to me. It was taken as Contraband during a cell search and a song came to me.

After getting out I asked a man at the treatment center what year Richard Nixon was impeached. He said, "1974" I think.

This lead to me going outside and singing the "Denny Penny" song which has a verse "restore my penny little Denny , because it's worth a fortune to me, it dated back to 1974 and important time in history."

Minutes after, I walked back into the center to see a man named Mohammed playing a hockey game He invented with pennies, so I told him the story.

He had a total of 4 pennies that dated before the time there was the shield on the back. It was his idea to check for a 1974 penny. The odds were very low, yet sure enough there was one there.

This encounter led to me conversing with him, establishing friendship, and sharing our spiritualities with each other.

He was far more humble and gentle than most Christians are. Since I knew this was not coincidence, it became clear that the message was that I needed to get rid of my bigotry towards Muslims.

Nothing helped me overcome it more than what the penny coincidence lead to. Amazing what a penny can buy. And the first four letters of the word coincidence are coin.

God has never showed me anything that I would consider a scientific or medical miracle.

He speaks to me through coincidence , and that is my favorite, because Denise I believe is assigned to criminals, sociopaths, and people that struggle with addictions, mental, and emotional disorders, as well as people who have been abused.

She works with many Angels and Guardians.


Offline PopeADope

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #7 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 16:14:21 »
Why would anyone want to bother with humans that have passed?  Let them be! Let them glory in the presence of the Lord and don't trouble them with earthly woes.

Jesus is our direct access to the Father. Just call on Him!
Because Jesus is troubled by Earthly woes and therefore so are they, because they are one in mind heart and will with Christ.

If I go to heaven tomorrow I absolutely want to spend all of my time fighting the battle that my Lord and Savior is fighting to defeat evil on this Earth and save Souls.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #8 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 16:19:51 »
You really need to stop this occult involvement, its deceptive and dangerous.

Talk to God ONLY through Jesus as Jesus Himself tells us to do. if any of these evil spirits appear, tell them to go in Jesus name.  if you are a born again believer then you have  the authority to do that. The ONLY spirit that we need is the Holy Spirit.
NONE of what you describe is biblical, and that is how we can test things, in fact we are clearly warned against contacting those who have died.



« Last Edit: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 16:23:23 by chosenone »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #9 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 16:33:38 »
Deceiving Spirits, Demonic Forces, Angels of Light, Counterfeits for the Truth

Are psychic experiences of talking with the dead real?
Yes, I believe they can be very real, but not true experiences of talking with dead people. The Bible considers these experiences to be associated with deceiving spirits, demons, angels of light or counterfeits for the true Spirit of God.

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. (NIV)
1 Corinthians 10:20-21
No, not at all. What I am saying is that these sacrifices are offered to demons, not to God. And I don't want any of you to be partners with demons. You cannot drink from the cup of the Lord and from the cup of demons, too. You cannot eat at the Lord's Table and at the table of demons, too. (NLT)
2 Corinthians 11:14-15
But I am not surprised! Even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So it is no wonder his servants can also do it by pretending to be godly ministers. In the end they will get every bit of punishment their wicked deeds deserve. (NLT)
2 Thessalonians 2:9-10
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. (NIV)
What about Saul, Samuel and the witch of Endor?

There is one somewhat confusing account in Scripture that seems to be the 'exception to the rule' in 1 Samuel 28:1–25. After the death of the prophet Samuel, King Saul was terrified of the threatening Philistine army and desperate to know the Lord's will. In his helpless desperation, he resorted to consulting with a medium, the witch of Endor.
Using demonic powers of sorcery, she called up Samuel. But when he appeared, even she was startled, for she had expected a satanic apparition and not Samuel himself. Shocked that God had intervened for Saul, the witch of Endor knew this "spirit coming up out of the ground" was not the result of her demonic conjuring.

So, Samuel's appearance here can only be explained as the unprecedented intervention of the Lord in response to Saul's hopeless desperation, permitting him one firm and final encounter with the prophet. The event in no way indicates God's endorsement of talking to the dead or consulting with mediums.

In fact, Saul is condemned for these actions in 1 Chronicles 10:13-14: "Saul died because he was unfaithful to the Lord; he did not keep the word of the Lord and even consulted a medium for guidance, and did not inquire of the Lord. So the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse." (NIV)

God has repeatedly made it clear in his Word that guidance is never to be obtained from mediums, physics or sorcerers, but rather, from the Lord himself.

« Last Edit: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 21:57:57 by chosenone »

Offline Catholica

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #10 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 16:45:59 »
Hi PopeADope,

Thanks for your witness to the truth of the Catholic faith.  I'd like to encourage you, if you sense that you are receiving messages from the dead, to place yourself under the guidance of a spiritual director, especially a priest.  The things of the spirit-realm can be dangerous to the believer, and even St. Faustina who was seeing our Lord himself needed a spiritual director, and Jesus encouraged her to do that.

I found great wisdom in that because Jesus established His Church to help us on our way to heaven.  If these things are from God then God will work through the priestly spiritual director and help you discern God's will.  If they are not from God, heaven forbid, then God will also work through the spiritual director to help you resist them.  Because no matter how good it can be to be able to help (for example, the poor souls in purgatory), it is dangerous to do so on a personal level because of other spiritual influences.

Perhaps you know all this and perhaps you are already seeking spiritual guidance, but if not, because of love for all my brethren, I hope that you will seek spiritual direction to help you bring to fulfillment God's plan for you in all that you have written and in a maximally fruitful and safe way.

God Bless,

Andre

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #11 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 19:59:21 »
Why would anyone want to bother with humans that have passed?  Let them be! Let them glory in the presence of the Lord and don't trouble them with earthly woes.

Jesus is our direct access to the Father. Just call on Him!
Because Jesus is troubled by Earthly woes and therefore so are they, because they are one in mind heart and will with Christ.

Says who?  They are not God, they are not elevated to god like status. Jesus is our Advocate, the Word tells us.

Quote
If I go to heaven tomorrow I absolutely want to spend all of my time fighting the battle that my Lord and Savior is fighting to defeat evil on this Earth and save Souls.

It is a spiritual battle, not one that we fight in the after life.  There is peace in Heaven with God.

Offline PopeADope

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #12 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 21:35:57 »
1 John 4King James Version (KJV)
4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come

Matt 7:16
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistle"

They pass all of the tests.  They serve God and want him to be glorified

Offline PopeADope

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #13 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 21:45:04 »
Yes I love the verse in the acts of the Apostles about the Blessed aprons healing people or the bones of Elisha bringing back a dead man to life.

Just because of something resembles a pagan practice does not mean it's pagan.  Sometimes prayer has all the appearance of magic. Certain words were uttered combined with meditation, sacrifice, believing things into existence with unwavering doubt, and fasting, and miracles resulted....

Hebrews had candle lit ritual, chanting, dancing, and all the behaviors a person might see from a sorcerer or at a coven only they simply are invoking a different source.

In the Old Testament God spoke to Moses and the Israelites between two golden Cherubim (graven imaged) that were so precious a man touched it unworthily and died on the spot.

Yet this was after God said not to make of the a Graven image. People went face down before the Ark of the Covenant. Often in scripture what God tells people at one point in history he later tells them to do the opposite.

What God called unclean in the Old Testament he calls clean in the New Testament.

The Israelites had to turn to a bronze serpent to be healed. M
oses raised his staff to work all sorts of Miracles and turned it into a serpent...Elijah's mantel parted a river... so much of the Old Testament practices externally look both Pagan and magical.

Just because something may resemble something else does not mean it comes from the same source.

Saying God Works through his angels and servants in heaven and assigns them to people is not the same philosophy of necromancy or anything practiced in the occult.

Offline PopeADope

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #14 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 21:48:35 »
Early Hebrew actually went to the grave with food and wine offerings, and asked their dead relatives, or renowned leaders, or prophets, etc., to intercede for them with God.

An interesting article on this is Afterlife, Ancient Israel's Changing Vision of the World Beyond. From Bible Review Magazine.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #15 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 21:56:01 »
we can only warn you, its your decision whether to carry on messing around with evil spirits or not. As for me the ONLY one I will communicate with is God through His Son, as Jesus Himself says to do. Why do you think you know better than Him?
You are into the occult, and communicating with any human being who has died(although its not them its demons) is very dangerous and forbidden.

« Last Edit: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 22:03:10 by chosenone »

Offline PopeADope

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #16 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 22:31:27 »
we can only warn you, its your decision whether to carry on messing around with evil spirits or not. As for me the ONLY one I will communicate with is God through His Son, as Jesus Himself says to do. Why do you think you know better than Him?
You are into the occult, and communicating with any human being who has died(although its not them its demons) is very dangerous and forbidden.
Quote Scripture that says it is forbidden please

Offline chosenone

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Offline chosenone

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #18 on: Mon Mar 28, 2016 - 22:53:30 »
Deceiving Spirits, Demonic Forces, Angels of Light, Counterfeits for the Truth

Are psychic experiences of talking with the dead real?
Yes, I believe they can be very real, but not true experiences of talking with dead people. The Bible considers these experiences to be associated with deceiving spirits, demons, angels of light or counterfeits for the true Spirit of God.

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. (NIV)
1 Corinthians 10:20-21
No, not at all. What I am saying is that these sacrifices are offered to demons, not to God. And I don't want any of you to be partners with demons. You cannot drink from the cup of the Lord and from the cup of demons, too. You cannot eat at the Lord's Table and at the table of demons, too. (NLT)
2 Corinthians 11:14-15
But I am not surprised! Even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So it is no wonder his servants can also do it by pretending to be godly ministers. In the end they will get every bit of punishment their wicked deeds deserve. (NLT)
2 Thessalonians 2:9-10
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. (NIV)
What about Saul, Samuel and the witch of Endor?

There is one somewhat confusing account in Scripture that seems to be the 'exception to the rule' in 1 Samuel 28:1–25. After the death of the prophet Samuel, King Saul was terrified of the threatening Philistine army and desperate to know the Lord's will. In his helpless desperation, he resorted to consulting with a medium, the witch of Endor.
Using demonic powers of sorcery, she called up Samuel. But when he appeared, even she was startled, for she had expected a satanic apparition and not Samuel himself. Shocked that God had intervened for Saul, the witch of Endor knew this "spirit coming up out of the ground" was not the result of her demonic conjuring.

So, Samuel's appearance here can only be explained as the unprecedented intervention of the Lord in response to Saul's hopeless desperation, permitting him one firm and final encounter with the prophet. The event in no way indicates God's endorsement of talking to the dead or consulting with mediums.

In fact, Saul is condemned for these actions in 1 Chronicles 10:13-14: "Saul died because he was unfaithful to the Lord; he did not keep the word of the Lord and even consulted a medium for guidance, and did not inquire of the Lord. So the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse." (NIV)

God has repeatedly made it clear in his Word that guidance is never to be obtained from mediums, physics or sorcerers, but rather, from the Lord himself.

Offline PopeADope

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #19 on: Tue Mar 29, 2016 - 07:22:10 »
This has nothing to do with mediums and sorcerers.  None of those quotes you mentioned speak of this.

Offline Alma1995

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #20 on: Tue Mar 29, 2016 - 08:37:29 »
2 Corinthians 11:14-15
But I am not surprised! Even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So it is no wonder his servants can also do it by pretending to be godly ministers. In the end they will get every bit of punishment their wicked deeds deserve. (NLT)

This is the one that might do the deed. Beware, you may believe they aren't demons but in fact they might be. It's better not to risk. As for me, I do speak to some dead relatives but I don't expect them to answer  ::saint::

Offline PopeADope

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #21 on: Wed Mar 30, 2016 - 07:24:41 »
I already answered your question. Scripture makes it clear that Moses left His body behind but isn't dead.

Why the Ressurection? Jesus was reunited with a new glorified body. Souls can still be eternal and concerned about the affairs of earth and eventually be reunited to perfect sinless bodies that don't fall apart.

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 30, 2016 - 12:26:23 by PopeADope »

Offline PopeADope

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #22 on: Wed Mar 30, 2016 - 12:25:23 »
1 Sam 28
“Whom do you want me to conjure up?” the woman asked him. “Conjure up Samuel for me,” he replied.
Samuel Appears.
12
When the woman saw Samuel, she shrieked at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”
13
But the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” “I see a god rising from the earth,” she replied.
14
“What does he look like?” asked Saul. “An old man is coming up wrapped in a robe,” she replied. Saul knew that it was Samuel, and so he bowed his face to the ground in homage.
Saul’s Doom.
15
* Samuel then said to Saul, “Why do you disturb me by conjuring me up?” Saul replied: “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are waging war against me and God has turned away from me. Since God no longer answers me through prophets or in dreams, I have called upon you to tell me what I should do.”e
16
To this Samuel said: “But why do you ask me, if the LORD has abandoned you for your neighbor?f
17
The LORD has done to you what he declared through me: he has torn the kingdom from your hand and has given it to your neighbor David.
18
“Because you disobeyed the LORD’s directive and would not carry out his fierce anger against Amalek, the LORD has done this to you today.g
19
Moreover, the LORD will deliver Israel, and you as well, into the hands of the Philistines. By tomorrow you and your sons will be with me, and the LORD will have delivered the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.”
20
Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, in great fear because of Samuel’s message.

Samuel was alive and could be contacted, but the manner in which Saul went about it didn't please God because Saul was going through a medium to get information that God didn't want Him to have.

But Samuel wasn't a Demon neither was He dead.  He could speak His mind and prophecy
, but mediums cannot be trusted or contacted because they participate in ungodly practices to obtain information.

Mediums are dangerous because they play with the occult and summon evil spirits from sheol.  But Samuel was not a bad spirit and he spoke Godly prophesies
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 30, 2016 - 12:27:57 by PopeADope »

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #23 on: Wed Mar 30, 2016 - 12:27:51 »
I can't understand WHY you need this?  Jesus is totally and wholly accessible to you, and we have the Word of God.


Offline PopeADope

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #24 on: Wed Mar 30, 2016 - 12:47:31 »
I can't understand WHY you need this?  Jesus is totally and wholly accessible to you, and we have the Word of God.
Jesus gave me Friends in Heaven and female Friends who help me overcome impurity and be a gentleman.

I also have mommy issues so He gave me a tender Mother to nurture me as I need a good God fearing mature Mom, because I have no relationship with my mother.

Friends are gifts from God and he is glorified by his masterpieces and servants.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #25 on: Wed Mar 30, 2016 - 15:24:30 »
I can't understand WHY you need this?  Jesus is totally and wholly accessible to you, and we have the Word of God.
Jesus gave me Friends in Heaven and female Friends who help me overcome impurity and be a gentleman.

I also have mommy issues so He gave me a tender Mother to nurture me as I need a good God fearing mature Mom, because I have no relationship with my mother.

Friends are gifts from God and he is glorified by his masterpieces and servants.

He gives us people who are alive to help us, thats why we have the body of Christ. He doesnt give us people who have died to help us. He strongly warns us against that.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #26 on: Wed Mar 30, 2016 - 15:28:08 »
This has nothing to do with mediums and sorcerers.  None of those quotes you mentioned speak of this.


 Thats what mediums do, contact those who have died. We are forbidden to do that, and if you do you are opening the door to deceiving demons.
Please find a church family and be part of that, make friends there and be part of that family. Get some prayer ministry and stop this occult involvement. Its very dangerous. 

Offline Catholica

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #27 on: Wed Mar 30, 2016 - 15:49:42 »
I can't understand WHY you need this?  Jesus is totally and wholly accessible to you, and we have the Word of God.
Jesus gave me Friends in Heaven and female Friends who help me overcome impurity and be a gentleman.

I also have mommy issues so He gave me a tender Mother to nurture me as I need a good God fearing mature Mom, because I have no relationship with my mother.

Friends are gifts from God and he is glorified by his masterpieces and servants.

He gives us people who are alive to help us, thats why we have the body of Christ.

Yes he does, and death cannot separate us.

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He doesnt give us people who have died to help us.

Yes, He does: those who are in his body help us even in heaven. (Rev. 5:8)

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He strongly warns us against that.

No, He doesn't.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #28 on: Wed Mar 30, 2016 - 15:50:46 »
This has nothing to do with mediums and sorcerers.  None of those quotes you mentioned speak of this.


 Thats what mediums do, contact those who have died. We are forbidden to do that, and if you do you are opening the door to deceiving demons.

Mediums try to contact those who have died.  For this person, the "dead" may have contacted him.  Subtle, but big difference.

If he is under spiritual direction, then he should have nothing to fear.

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #29 on: Wed Mar 30, 2016 - 21:54:13 »
This has nothing to do with mediums and sorcerers.  None of those quotes you mentioned speak of this.


 Thats what mediums do, contact those who have died. We are forbidden to do that, and if you do you are opening the door to deceiving demons.

Mediums try to contact those who have died.  For this person, the "dead" may have contacted him.  Subtle, but big difference.

If he is under spiritual direction, then he should have nothing to fear.
I am connected to them .  I don't summon or conjure up anyone.

Thank you.  I have opened with more than one Confessor about this as well as shared it with other Christian friends in Christ. I have to judge the fruits here and so far they pass the test.

God wished to give me a gift he knew I could cherish more than friendship on this Earth , but also a very powerful weapon as well against evil and sin. God meets us where we're at in the way that works best for us personally.

This devotion glorifies God and causes me to thank and praise God more and sin against him less.

Offline Bimbo

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Re: Thread of the loving dead
« Reply #30 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 05:46:56 »
ENDOR – YESTERDAY AND TODAY
IMPORTANT LESSONS FOR ALL OF US.

➢   PopeADope opened this thread. He has confessed his relations with the dead people.
➢   Some members of the forum gave him good biblical advice.
➢   I appreciated the effort of CHOSENONE to save him from that dangerous activity.
➢   Finally, both PopeADope and the others accepted the idea that Samuel is not dead, but even alive… However, we need to verify this conclusion.
➢   I didn’t come here to criticize, but to help my brothers and sisters…. However it is necessary to say that we have to know better the character of God.
➢   We can find here some important lessons regarding this thread.

LESSON ONE:

 MeMyself said to PopeADope:

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“I can't understand WHY you need this? Jesus is totally and wholly accessible to you, and we have the Word of God.”


The answer is that every apostasy is accompanied by the magic of satan. For instance, when the Galatians adopted a false gospel (salvation by faith plus the works of the law), Paul wrote to them: ”O foolish Galatians! Who has BEWITCHED you that you should not obey the truth…” – Gal. 3:1. And when Eve discussed with satan in Eden, he has also BEWITCHED her. His magic changed her mind and finally she didn’t believe God, but satan. When PopeADope began to discuss with the spirits of the dead (that is an apostasy!) the magic of satan changed his mind:

[1] Therefore he declared: “I don't see anything in Scripture that condemns the idea that the souls in heaven can assist us.” (However we have to say the Bible condemns it!...)
[2] The result was he trusts his own reasonings and feelings. (Satan has power to deceive our feelings!).
[3] In conclusion, we must know the Bible very well, and how to put any religious teaching under the biblical test.

Why the relations with dead people are so dangerous?

•   Because being bewitched, you will accept a wrong way for your life. (Think about Eve; also Deut. 13:1-5).
•   Because it will be difficult to be convinced that you are going on a wrong way. (This is the case of PopeADope).
•   Because the discussion with the dead are a real contact with satan (see below).

LESSON TWO:

We must defend the truth only with the truth! The Bible and Jesus are the truth (John 17:17; John 14:6). The Holy Spirit, Who inspired the Bible, is named “the Spirit of truth” – John 14:17. In essence we must defend the truth with the Bible verses, NOT with our own reasons… Therefore Paul said in Heb. 12:13, “Mark out a straight path for your feet so that those who are weak and lame will not fall but become strong” NLT.

For example, consider this conclusion written on the thread:

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“There is one somewhat confusing account in Scripture that seems to be the 'exception to the rule' in 1 Samuel 28:1–25. After the death of the prophet Samuel, King Saul was terrified of the threatening Philistine army and desperate to know the Lord's will. In his helpless desperation, he resorted to consulting with a medium, the witch of Endor.

“Using demonic powers of sorcery, she called up Samuel. But when he appeared, even she was startled, for she had expected a satanic apparition and not Samuel himself. Shocked that God had intervened for Saul, the witch of Endor knew this "spirit coming up out of the ground" was not the result of her demonic conjuring.

“So, Samuel's appearance here can only be explained as the unprecedented intervention of the Lord in response to Saul's hopeless desperation, permitting him one firm and final encounter with the prophet. The event in no way indicates God's endorsement of talking to the dead or consulting with mediums.

“In fact, Saul is condemned for these actions in 1 Chronicles 10:13-14: ‘Saul died because he was unfaithful to the Lord; he did not keep the word of the Lord and even consulted a medium for guidance, and did not inquire of the Lord. So the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.’" (NIV)

Now, think about that quotation:

[a] When we don’t understand all details of the biblical passage, our conclusion is wrong. We do not find in the Bible any allusion regarding that “exception”. Am I right? In fact that “exception to the rule” means a compromise on what God declared to be sin. And what is that “rule”? “You shall not permit a sorceress to live.” (Ex. 22:18) Please compare with: “No, I will not break my covenant; I will not take back a single word I said.” (Ps. 89:34 NLT). “For I am the Lord, I do not change.” Mal. 3:6. If you continue to read my post, you will understand that doesn’t exist any exception in this regard…

Think about this: If the Lord “permitted” that meeting with Samuel, why the Bible declares that "Saul died because he … even CONSULTED A MEDIUM FOR GUIDANCE”! Is it true that the Lord first “permits” or even brings the prophet there, and then He let Saul be killed for what He first permitted and even helped for it? Our God hasn’t such a character…

[c] Did the witch know that the apparition of Samuel was not the result of her demonic conjuring? This is not the declaration of the Bible. Do you believe that God commands, “You shall not permit a sorceress to live” (Ex. 22:18), and then He comes to Endor to cooperate with the witch? And if that “Samuel” was even satan (see below), did God cooperate with him? If you believe that God wanted to answer Saul, why He did not use His own ways in this regard?

Going to Endor, Samuel answered questions and demonstrated that he knew…. knew…. knew… But was it true? Was his knowledge a sure proof that he was alive? I assure you that this belief opens a large door for that “Samuel” to visit you, too….

A MODERN “SHE-SAMUEL” AND A MODERN “ENDOR”

A large meeting was being held at the popular Foresters Hall in the heart of London’s West End. A couple were invited to participate there. The couple said they had never attended anything of the kind before and were a little skeptical about the fantastic claims the lecturer made for himself. Arriving at the hall, they found three seats at the back.

The lecturer began by declaring that the material world in which we live is surrounded by invisible powers as real as any¬thing we see or feel. He said the unseen forces are friendly and eager to help us. "Death," he said, "is not really death as most people think of it; it is rather our entrance into the invisible world."

Pausing, he looked slowly over his audience and said: "Among the many newcomers here tonight are a lady and gentleman who arrived from Cape Town, South Africa, on April 6." He pointed to the back row. "Their name is coming through now," he said. "Yes, a Mr. and Mrs. John R—."

This was the very couple that had come with some misgivings. And the lecturer continued: "Less than six weeks ago the beloved sister of Mrs. R— passed over to the other side." Without hesitation he added: "In this morning's mail Mrs. R— received a long airmail envelope with a letter and an enclosed snapshot of her sister."

"How on earth could he know that?" the lady whispered. Continuing, he said: "This picture was taken on a beach at Cape Town two days prior to her death, which was the result of an automobile accident. And furthermore, Mrs. R— has that picture with her now. It is in the right-hand pocket of her brown handbag!" With trembling hands the lady opened her bag. Sure enough, the photo and the letter were there. Surprised beyond belief, she took out the letter and the picture which had arrived that morning.

"And how do I know these things?" he continued. "Because, madam, your sister is standing right here beside me! She is on the platform at this very moment!"

Unbelievable, you say? But it happened! Then the lecturer began to convey a few comforting messages, each laden with personal information known only to these two sisters, one of whom had been buried five and a half weeks earlier.

The lady and her husband were no longer skeptical. They were sure there is an invisible world. No one could persuade them otherwise. The evidence was overwhelming. But what explanation can we give? It is easy to label it "clairvoyance," "telepathy," or "paranormal cognition." But that does not explain it. Those are mere words, not explanations. And scores of experiences could be cited. What would you have thought if something like that had happened to you?

Are you with me? This modern dead “she-Samuel” knew also very many things… But was she even the sister of Mrs. R? And is it true that Samuel came to Endor? The Bible says, NO! (See below!). Let’s go to the Bible for the true answer…. In fact, David said about his dead son: “While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who can tell whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I SHALL GO TO HIM, BUT HE SHALL NOT RETURN TO ME.” (2 Sam. 12:22.23).

Please consider the event from Endor:

7Then Saul said to his servants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “In fact, there is a woman who is a medium at Endor.” 8So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Please conduct a séance for me, and BRING UP for me the one I shall name to you.” 9Then the woman said to him, “Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?” 10And Saul swore to her by the LORD, saying, “As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.” 11Then the woman said, “Whom shall I BRING UP for you?” And he said, “BRING UP SAMUEL for me.” 12When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!” 13And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I saw a spirit ASCENDING OUT OF THE EARTH.” 14So he said to her, “What is his form?” And she said, “An old man is COMING UP, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.

15Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by BRINGING ME UP?” And Saul answered, “I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do.” 16Then Samuel said: “Why then do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy? 17“And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18“Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. 19“Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons WILL BE WITH ME. The LORD will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.” 1 Sam. 28:7-19

DID SAMUEL COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN? NO! Look in your Bible:

THE WITCH: “Whom shall I bring UP for you?” (11)
SAUL: “Bring UP Samuel for me” (11)
THE WOMAN: “I saw a spirit ASCENDING OUT OF THE EARTH”. “An old man is coming UP.” (13-14)

WHERE DOES THE HOLY SAMUEL DWELL?

Saul committed suicide (See 1 Sam. 31:4.) and Samuel, foretelling Saul's death, declares,  “tomorrow you and your sons WILL BE WITH ME.” (1 Sam. 28:19).  Therefore, where does the holy Samuel dwell, if the suicide Saul was to be WITH HIM? In heaven? NO! In the hell? NO! In their graves?... OF COURSE! That is the only one place where they can be together.

HOW DOES THE STORY DESCRIBE SAMUEL? 

Some say Samuel was a disembodied soul and others say: No, he arrived with a body like  Moses' and Elijah’s bodies at Jesus' transfiguration. So what is the truth? Note that the witch called Samuel “a SPIRIT” (1 Sam. 28:13), but Luke 9:30 called Moses and Elijah “two MEN” (not spirits).

The medium described "Samuel" as "an old man... covered with a mantle", or a robe. Does an immortal spirit take on a body? How did the witch know that he is an old man? She saw his face, of course. And she saw its mantle… In this case, what is the origin of that spirit’s body?

I don’t believe that the devil has power to raise the dead, and I don’t believe that God answered the request of that witch who was under the divine death sentence for practicing sorcery. (See Lev. 20:27; Deut. 18:10, 11.) In fact, if the spirit had a physical body, it wasn’t a real spirit of the dead people.

If the dead are resurrected from their graves and we believe that Samuel was resurrected in a physical body from his grave, we have to resolve an important problem: “And Samuel died; and all the Israelites were gathered together, and lamented him, and BURIED HIM IN HIS HOUSE AT RAMAH.” (1 Sam. 25:1; 28:3). Therefore, if Samuel was resurrected from his grave (Ramah), how do you explain that he went out FROM THE EARTH AT ENDOR? And if we believe that Samuel came to Endor as a spirit, we have another problem. Did he need a mantle? Had he got a beard? How did the witch know that he was an old man?

Was Samuel a resurrected man? In this case I am asking: Could the witch really disturb the rest of God's faithful prophet? Would God send a prophetic message through a medium – a condemned witch (Deut 18:10; Lev 20:6) – especially while He already refused Saul guidance via ap¬proved methods (1 Sam 28:6)?

IS IT POSIBLE THAT SATAN CAME IN THE PLACE OF SAMUEL?

[1]. Note that Saul didn’t see Samuel because he inquired "What did you see?" and "What is his form?" If Samuel had really been there, why would not Saul have seen him? The witch described him as an old man with a mantle, and then Saul “PERCEIVED that it was Samuel” (v. 14). In Hebrew, the word "perceived" doesn’t mean "saw." The meaning is “understood”, or “concluded”; it was a result of the description given by the witch, that Samuel was present.

[2]. Note that the first words of that mysterious Samuel were a warning. He tried to protect the witch and told her that she was in danger because Saul was there... (v. 12). Can we believe that Samuel changed his mind and protected a sinful witch? NO! THAT WAS SATAN...

[3] Verse 13 says that the entity summoned by the woman was an ELOHIM - a Hebrew word never used for the dead; it normally refers to a supernatural being, either DIVINE or DEMONIC.

[4] Saul answered Samuel, “I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor...” (v. 15). Can we believe that now God sent His prophet to answer Saul? NO! Then, who is that “Samuel”? Satan, of course.

[5] The witch said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down. („he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.” – NIV). He had worshiped before something he could not even see. He worshiped satan...

The passage is a dramatic demonstration of where rebellion against God ultimately leads. I believe that the whole affair was a demonic delusion, reminding of 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12. “... the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,  and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to LOVE THE TRUTH and so be saved.  For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie  and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.“ – NIV

[6] The Samuel's prediction was false. Saul was not handed over to the Philistines, but committed suicide; and his body, though taken, was recovered by the inhabitants of Jabesh-Gilead (1 Sam 31:12, 13). Also, not “ALL” of Saul's sons died the next day; ("Ish-Bosheth son of Saul" appears in 2 Sam 2:8-10). Through contrast, the real Samuel spoke Yahweh's word accurately “The LORD was with him, and everything Samuel said proved to be reliable.” (1 Sam 3:19-21 NLT).

[7] The message of that mysterious Samuel was calculated to burden Saul with guilt and fear, crushing any possible hope or repentance. The next day Saul commits suicide (31:4, 5). Does that message reflect God's char¬acter? NO!

WHY DOES THE STORY SPEAK ABOUT "SAMUEL" IF HE WAS NOT REALLY THERE?

For instance, the Bible speaks about sunrise and sunset, but those are only appearances… The Bible narrative describes the spiritualistic meeting from Endor in terms of the suppositions of the witch and of Saul. This is a literary rule known as the language of appearance. When the story says "Samuel," we have to understand that it was simply the apparition of devil and they – the witch and Saul - supposed was Samuel.

Saul vowed in the Name of God, who had for¬bidden sorcery, that nothing would happen to the witch: “But Saul took an oath in the name of the LORD and promised, “As surely as the LORD lives, nothing bad will happen to you for doing this.” (verse 10). What irony! Saul was both lawmaker and lawbreaker! When the prophet had been alive Saul had refused to heed him. Now he asked "Samuel's" guid¬ance from the grave.

It is interesting that earlier Saul's kingdom had begun with a meal provided by a prophet -- Samuel (1 Samuel 9). Now Saul's kingdom was ending with a meal provided by a false prophetic voice – the witch... (v.24.25).

That meal doesn’t reflect the woman’s kindness, because the writer describes her killing the animal not with the verb "to butcher" (tabach, cf. 1 Sam 25:11), but "to slaughter for sacrifice" (zabach). She performs a "cultic ritual slaughter." So her seeming kindness actually leads Saul into an act of pagan worship. This explains why at first Saul did not want to eat (28:23).

What do you think: Is this story a warning for our days? If satan personified Samuel, can he personify our relatives, or Mary – the mother of Jesus - or even Jesus? How can we make the Bible our shield in this regard?

 

     
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