The Disciples of Christ

[s1n4m1n]

I'm always mystified as to why there are not more Disicples of Christ members on this forum. In fact, I don't know if anyone currently posting here regularly is a member of that church.

One thing I have a question on is their 2020 program of adding 1000 new congregations by 2020. My understanding is that they have had some success, but what some of that seems to come from is pre-existing congregations joining the DoC. I suspect in some cases it has to do with the clergy pension program.

Also I would like to know how their fellowship with the UCC is doing.

[Johnb]

I am a member of the DoC.  We actually are duel  DoC UCC.  I hate being associated with the UCC.  However, when this congregation broke off another DoC in the 80s the UCC gave a lot of money to get things started so we carry both names.

[s1n4m1n]

So how is that 2020 thing working out?

Also I see some declaration of principles being worked on.

[Johnb]

Actually Ken I don't know.  We are about as close to autonomous as a DoC/UCC can be,  We have almost no contact with either just do our own thing.

The denom HQ's think they are doing great and wonderful thing but they are mostly being ignored by the rank and file.  They are to liberal for 75% of us.  The problem is the world thinks they are speaking for us.   

[James.]

Johnb, I visited a DoC in our area to meet the group, since we RM folk are so rare up here (this cong. has been around since before the days of Campbell, and is one of the very few DoC's remaining here) and that was their take as well.  They didn't have much good to say at all for their  NY regional leadership either, which was considered far too liberal for them. 

[Jimmy]

Actually Ken I don't know.  We are about as close to autonomous as a DoC/UCC can be,  We have almost no contact with either just do our own thing.

The denom HQ's think they are doing great and wonderful thing but they are mostly being ignored by the rank and file.  They are to liberal for 75% of us.  The problem is the world thinks they are speaking for us.   

If you identify yourself with them, then they are speaking for you even if you don't agree with them.  Why do you not disassociate yourself from them?  Is it a matter of legalities in the ownership of property etc.?

[s1n4m1n]

So how does this "to liberal" leadership even get in power? I assume they are selected by the delegates to regional and national conventions. Would the majority of the DoC congregations be liberal.

[s1n4m1n]

Johnb,

How does the UCC connection work on a local level? I know they baptize infants and the DoC doesn't, it seems like their could be some conflicts.

[Johnb]

Actually Ken I don't know.  We are about as close to autonomous as a DoC/UCC can be,  We have almost no contact with either just do our own thing.

The denom HQ's think they are doing great and wonderful thing but they are mostly being ignored by the rank and file.  They are to liberal for 75% of us.  The problem is the world thinks they are speaking for us.   

If you identify yourself with them, then they are speaking for you even if you don't agree with them.  Why do you not disassociate yourself from them?  Is it a matter of legalities in the ownership of property etc.?

Actually Jimmy I made that motion.  We have a few older members that were here when the congregation started,  They feel obligated to keep the name because of all the help recieved.  When they are gone it may change. 
PS I have never worried a lot about what others think of me personally nor do I worry about what they think of us as a congregation.  It is clear to all that know us we speak for ourselves.  We own our property etc not the DOC or UCC 

[Johnb]

So how does this "to liberal" leadership even get in power? I assume they are selected by the delegates to regional and national conventions. Would the majority of the DoC congregations be liberal.

They went to liberal colleges and the common folks had apathy.  We did not even bother to have a delegate until recently.  I think that is quite common.  The smaller churches are usually more conservative but can not afford to send delegates.  They also do not feel a strong allegence to the DOC or UCC. 

[zoonance]

We have a DOC in our town but I have never visited.   I simply assumed the "worse" (super liberal, unrecognizable, etc.)  That is unfair.   What kind of "questions" or whatever would I ask or look for if I got around to visiting sometime.  (It is difficult to visit anywhere when you are so busy in your own congregation.)  I assume the UCC is the Universal Council of Churches?

[s1n4m1n]

BTW, here are my comments from almost 3 years ago when I visited a DoC congregation: Went to a Disciples of Christ church today

Time sure does fly!

That was when I was going to the Roman Catholic Church in their convert class, but skipped that Sunday to checkout the Disciples.

Since then I didn't finish the conversion and was never confirmed in the RCC but started attending a small Anglican Catholic parish before Easter of that year.

[DCR]

but started attending a small Anglican Catholic parish before Easter of that year.

Is that the same or different from the Anglican (Episcopal) Church/Church of England?

[s1n4m1n]

but started attending a small Anglican Catholic parish before Easter of that year.

Is that the same or different from the Anglican (Episcopal) Church/Church of England?

Organizationally, they are not part of The Episcopal Church or the Anglican Communion.

It can get a little convoluted. When The Episcopal Church (then called the Protestant Episcopal Church) approved of women's ordination to the priesthood and approved a "heteredox" prayerbook in a 1976 General Convention, a congress of concerned churchman meet in St. Louis to reject the innovations in the Affirmation of St. Louis. This rejection lead to the formation of what they called a "continuing" church. This body was supposed to be the authentic Episcopal church in the United States and several Episcopal priests were ordained by a retired Episcopal bishop. The hope was that the Archbishop of Cantarbury would recognize this group as the official Anglican body in the United States. That never happened and the Protestant Episcopal Church never did break apart. The Church of England began ordaining women in 1992 and have recently, this year in fact, approved women bishops.

In addition, and unfortunately, these new bishops couldn't get along and had differing theologies of the church (some low church, some high church). Before the offical Church Constitution was approved one of the bishops pulled out his diocese and decided to go it alone. Eventually, three church bodies came into being, the Anglican Catholic Church (ACC), the Anglican Province of Christ the King (APCK) and the United Episcopal Church of North America (UECNA). Let me tell you, if you think the CoC has problems splitting you should look at these groups.

In one movement toward unity the ACC tried to unite with the American Episcopal Church (formed from a split with the Protestant Episcopal Church over civil rights and the false teaching of som PEC bishops). But due to the unsavory origins of the AEC a majority of the ACC didn't go along so a new group called the Anglican Church in America was formed from parts of the ACC and the AEC. After a couple years a split happened in the ACA and a new group called the Anglican Province of America was formed from some of the former AEC parishes. So from a unity movement of two group, three groups formed. But even after all this there are still holding that they are authentically "continuing" the Anglican Church.

Currently there are some movements towards unity between the ACC, APCK, and the UECNA. They share ministers and help in each others consecrations and stuff like that. Of course were only talking about 20,000 people total in the three groups and I'm being generous.

The congregation I worship with goes back to 1977 and seems to have been once been a part of the APCK and then the UECNA. They then split from the UECNA and sought the oversight of a retired bishop of that group.

Ken

Anglican Catholic Church

Anglican Province of Christ the King

United Episcopal Church

[Johnb]

Zoo
Actually the UCC is United Church of Christ and have a loose connection to the RM.

Ken  we don't have any UCC folks to deal with so we have not faced the infant baptism question.  However, like Stone and the Campbells in the early day we do not make baptism a test of fellowship.