GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | RSS | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: Experiential Worship  (Read 5405 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rocketman

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • Manna: 2
  • Rocketman
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 18:04:01 »
I think Jeremy presents some interesting ideas.  

I think part of the problem today is many equate traditional cofc worship with being exactly like bibilical 1st century worship, when in fact it was likely very different.  Yet those of this mindset attempt to bind those man made traditions or styles and hold congregations hostage.

While traditional cofc worship may connect with some, it doesnt necessarily connect with everyone, particularly many of the younger generation.  What is wrong with songs on a screen?  Whats wrong with powerpoint in lessons?  Nothing, yet I had one brother tell me when we introduced powerpoint that "people just want to be entertained and we ought to go back to like they did it in the 1st century where they didnt need that."  Of course I replied that we need to cut the power all together if we want to really go back there.  And besides if we really replicated their worship it most likely would look a bit different than the American 1950 cofc style (not that that style is wrong, yet it can become something that we just go through the motions with).

I say this as someone from a very legalistic background yet as a parent with 3 kids, I see how some of the contemporary things connect with my kids who have grown up with video and tv.  I'd rather move out of my comfort zone and them be reached with the gospel than hold to a style that while nothing is necessarily unbliblical about it, doesnt connect to them.  I'm not saying we change doctrine or anything like that, but he command is to sing so what if we have a book or a screen.  
RM

PS I think this gets to the heart of most of our problems today in cofcs as there are 2 very distinctive mindsets. The we got it right circa 1950 and you cannot change it verses the we have freedom to worship in a culturally relevant manner incorporating technology and such into our worship.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Experiential Worship
« on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 18:04:01 »

Offline Skip

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4206
  • Manna: 45
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #1 on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 22:16:31 »
Rocketman,

I'm operating on a 'keyhole view' into you situation, so take this with the realization that I really know very little about your situation.

That said...

Let me propose some scenarios here...
Would a new preacher help solve the problem?
How about a new building?

I see changing the worship as an EXTERNAL attempt to change what is probably an INTERNAL - heart - problem.

Therefore, I would predict that changing the worship would make some of your people happy, others would leave, and if only those who favored the 'new' worship tradition remained, that would solve your implied simmering division over worship styles.

But I really don't see how it would solve the heart problem; I fear that people might be drawn to your worship style instead of to Christ.
And settle down into a new-found comfort zone.

Your congregation will have to make some hard decisions in the weeks, months, years ahead...
May the Holy Spirit and the Word of God lead your decisions though a soft heart and prayerful consideration.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Experiential Worship
« Reply #1 on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 22:16:31 »

  • Guest
Experiential Worship
« Reply #2 on: Fri Aug 02, 2002 - 08:39:49 »
It seems the Lord has given us many different ways of worshiping him. The grace is that we get to approach Him at all, whatever the style may be. It's about Him ... and yes, also about us, but that really becomes about Him too, as our fellowship with one another is about helping each other grow into His image, isn't it?

Here's an article at the Taize' Community site, about the value of silence ... just by way of a "for example" regarding worship ...
http://www.taize.fr/en/index.htm?page=/en/enpraric.htm

Christian Forums and Message Board

Experiential Worship
« Reply #2 on: Fri Aug 02, 2002 - 08:39:49 »

Offline Lacy

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Manna: 0
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #3 on: Fri Aug 02, 2002 - 23:41:31 »
What do we discern during the Lord's Supper?

In I Cor. 11:29 Paul says, "He that eateth and drinketh unworthely, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body." The NIV says, "...without recognizing the body of the Lord..."

As I recall, W. Carl Ketcherside, in his Mission Messenger volume, "The Twisted Scriptures" mentions how the church came together to eat and drink, arriving and eating before everyone had arrived, as if they were afraid they wouldn't get enough, and in total disregard for the "lesser" members. Paul scolds them severely for this, saying, "So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for each other."

In the middle of these verses Paul urges them to "discern," or "recognize" the Lord's body, i.e., THE CHURCH, which they were failing to do by discrimination and runing ahead of one another. If they had "recognized the Lord's body,' and been considerate of one another, rather than acknowledging their appitite for food and interetainment, they wouldn't have taked the Lord's Supper in such an "unworthy" manner.

I tried to locate this statement in Ketcheerside's book just now and was unable to locate it. (I have all of his original Mission Messenger volumes.)

I know we want to recognize (discern) the Lord Himself while we commune with Him, but in context, this view fits pretty well; after all, this was the problem at Corinth.

Be that as it may, I have been in many situations in which the people discerned neither the Lord's physical body nor His body, the church. In a country church in TN where I was preaching while a student at Freed-Hardeman, we were standing for communion. I had just accepted the fruit of the vine, and was about to drink it, when the brother to my right, who just had, walked in front of me and, with an eraser lying in the window sill, started killing wasps in the window. That has been fifty years age, but I have never forgotten how I "discerned" this brother and his wasps during communion in TN.

On another occasion in WV, someone noticed a groundhog lying on a rock outside the country church. He called someone else's attention to it, and before communion was over, everyone was discerning a groundhog.

Did either of these persons or churches "acknowledge" the Lord's body. Did they think or one another, or did they think of the "objects of their devotion?"

Two points: The Lord's body could be either the body of the Lord Himself or His spiritual body, the church. And, it's probably just as out of order to hit the plate with a ring, walk up and down the aisle, rattle and bang during communion as it is to kill wasps or study groundhogs.

What think you on these two points?

Lacy

Christian Forums and Message Board

Experiential Worship
« Reply #3 on: Fri Aug 02, 2002 - 23:41:31 »

Offline seekr

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2696
  • Manna: 171
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #4 on: Sat Aug 03, 2002 - 16:46:48 »
The body is the church. And discerning the body of the Lord is not speaking of a moment or moments of hushed silence while we try to concentrate on whom we were bought by, but we are to always discern the the church, by loving as Christ has loved us. All of this is about the law of love and how "we know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers." 1John3:14. All of scripture ties in together when you grasp that concept of loving one another WITH God's love working through us. This is what fulfills the law and why those who were not showing concern for the poor were breaking that law while breaking bread together and were supposed to be having  a time of fellowship and sharing, with knowing that Christ had paid for them and it was not about just looking after their own interests. Jesus greatest concern was for the poor and the oppressed and the bruised. He does not take it lightly when His church treats each other with a lack of discernment. I see this in the "church" when others look down on the poor and judge them as not being blessed by God and not showing mercy. The supper is not a ritualistic time of concentrating on God...it is a time to fellowship and remember what Christ has done and communing with your brothers IN LOVE. It should still be a supper and a time to celebrate with each other.

seekr

Christian Forums and Message Board

Experiential Worship
« Reply #4 on: Sat Aug 03, 2002 - 16:46:48 »



Offline seekr

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2696
  • Manna: 171
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #5 on: Sun Aug 04, 2002 - 00:56:44 »
Bob, it sounds like a scene that should've been in "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou". So is that man saved? I don't really want anyone to answer that.

I like what you said JHTM. And it is the picture of both of course, as that is why we do sup with one another and share communion, but the problem was they were not discerning each other's needs. I at one time, was one of those who strained to be found acceptable and feared not thinking of the Lord while communion was being served. In the comic at www.sheepcomics.com, it has a cartoon called "supper stress" and his article with it made me laugh at myself. I'm so glad His love is much greater than I imagined it to be.

seekr

  • Guest
Experiential Worship
« Reply #6 on: Mon Aug 05, 2002 - 00:34:24 »
seekr, thanks for the thumbs up on sheepcomics.com ... I found the one you posted about -- made me laugh out loud.
The article with it is very good ... I've bookmarked that site and plan to go back and check out some more comics and articles.

Gotta run ... Hope everyone is having a blessed Lord's Day, and blessed week to everyone, too.

JHTM

Offline janine

  • Guardian-Patroller of Lee's Outer Darkness
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 14000
  • Manna: 370
  • Gender: Female
  • Good Stuff
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #7 on: Wed Sep 25, 2002 - 21:40:31 »
Since it's not possible to divorce ourselves from the externals while we are on this earth, it remains that they do matter.

For example, a reasonably safe and comfortable place to be while worshipping is a must, I think.  Not that I will refuse to worship if I'm ever trapped up a tree in a flood...  But I'm talking about worshipping with the brethren, in a group, at a pre-meditated time.

Offline chrischar

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 257
  • Manna: 1
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #8 on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 16:43:09 »
A worship service like this sounds very refreshing.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Experiential Worship
« Reply #8 on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 16:43:09 »

Offline chrischar

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 257
  • Manna: 1
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #9 on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 17:57:53 »
Well, to be very honest with you, the Lord's Suppers I have participated in at traditional churches have been nothing like that.

They are more like this:

Clank (someones wedding ring banging against the plate). Crunch, crunch, crunch (someone chewing the holy cracker).
Cough,Cough..............silence...........................silence.........

Footsteps (from the men walking back up the isle to start it all over again with the grape juice).

That's about it. It's called communion, but we don't communicate with each other. Some may pray privately, but why "gather together" to say private prayers?

Mike Root has a really good book on this subject called, "Unbroken Bread." He talks about how the Lord's Supper was designed for us to fellowship with each other in memory of the Lord's death, burial, and resurrection. He talks about how it should be then that we encourage, exhort, build-up, hold accountable, etc. other members of the body.

So, I thought Jeremy's article was right on. Not a revelation, and certainly not something I haven't heard before, but right on none-the-less.

Chris

Offline kanham

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2313
  • Manna: 208
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #10 on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 21:38:29 »
2 very distinctive mindsets have been around for a long time...

“Dr. A. W. Fortune in his book, “The Disciples in Kentucky,

Offline Rocketman

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • Manna: 2
  • Rocketman
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #11 on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 21:57:14 »
Skip stated:
"And don’t try to convince me that the ‘traditional’ coc worship style is somehow wrong only because it originated in the 1950s or 1930s or 1830s or whenever – I think that you’ll find that no matter what changes you make, in 20 years - or one month -  that very change will have become the new ‘tradition’."

My comments were not that it was wrong, it is the implication that it is the-be all end all-only way to do it. Nothing can ever change.  I agree if we make the changes a law then we have missed the point.  I believe there is much more freedom than we typically allow for in most cofcs.  

The older members of the family ought to be mature enough to change if thats what it takes to connect with this new culture.  In our church we are really struggling right now with the 2 views I described earlier.  Yet are we really be faithful to God's word when we make no impact on our community at all?

Offline Booty

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2123
  • Manna: 3
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #12 on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 22:48:37 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]And please, let?s not even imply that a worship that ?feels right?, is right![/quote]

But then also let us not imply that worship which "feels right" is inherently wrong.

Worship is a celebration of my Lord's love for me and my love for Him. Why ever would that not "Feel Right"?

Offline Rocketman

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • Manna: 2
  • Rocketman
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #13 on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 23:07:10 »
Skip,
Through your keyhole view, I think you are on to something and that well could be part of our problem, though how does one ever really judge that without being judging?  I can say ancedotally that there are certainly those indications at times.  I've heard comments such as, "why should I have to change, if someone wants to come here they can change and be like me."  To me that is simply an unbiblical mindset. Paul certainly didnt operate that way nor did Jesus for that matter.  You are correct we have many difficult decisions ahead.  

Booty, I agree totally with your point.

Offline janine

  • Guardian-Patroller of Lee's Outer Darkness
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 14000
  • Manna: 370
  • Gender: Female
  • Good Stuff
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #14 on: Fri Aug 02, 2002 - 07:52:38 »
I remember reading something by Roy Rogers and Dale Evans, about how they always went to worship wherever was closest to their home.

If none of the externals ever matter, and it's all and only about the heart, I guess ol' Roy & Dale were doing the right thing.

Or is something more like a balance needed, a proper heart toward the Lord and the worship, while also paying attention to externals?

Hey, Chris, what is wrong with a contemplative silence?  Does every moment need to be filled with noise?

(That said, I did enjoy the soft sweet singing of appropriate songs during communion we did at a former congregation.  It was easier to keep my mind on the Lord and the Body with that going on, than with babies crying and toddlers babbling.)

(Chris, do the wedding rings hit the metal trays in rhythm?) :0

Offline Skip

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4206
  • Manna: 45
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #15 on: Fri Aug 02, 2002 - 17:13:48 »
kanham,

I appreciate you comment about, "I fear that people might be drawn to your worship style instead of to Christ."

Too often that very statement is used as a knee-jerk reaction to anything new.

But I thought about it. People really do choose to reject a church because of the preacher's style or the worship style. Just ask any church that has had a preacher change or has changed their worship style.

It reminds me of an ad I saw once:
Come to our Cappuccino and Christ worship!
Maybe it was Freudian - the Cappuccino came before Christ.

Offline MRBILL

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 66
  • Manna: 0
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #16 on: Fri Aug 02, 2002 - 21:20:16 »
Worship style preferences depends on what type  personality you have, I guess.  One of the reasons I left the Baptist church was I  wanted a more orthodox style of worship.  It just matches my drab personality and age.  The clapping of hands somehow does not make me feel more spiritual, but if it does for you then go for it.  I can take the piano in worship service but I don't care for blaring trumpets and drums.  I would have to say that sometimes instrumental music did enhance my worship.  

What I enjoy about a worship service is:
1  loving fellowship
2  a challenging message from the word
3  a reverent but not dead atmosphere
4  the singing of spiritually uplifting songs

However,that being said, I am willing to bend to the wishes of others concerning worship style.

Hey'' how about a childrens church for 3,4, and 5 year olds
 
mrbill

  • Guest
Experiential Worship
« Reply #17 on: Fri Aug 02, 2002 - 23:56:58 »
Hi, Lacy! Maybe I need work, but if there is a wasp flying around, that thing is gonna have to be dead or at least far far away from me before I can discern anything else, even the Lord. I can't discern where my brain is when those things are near. I would thank the Lord for anyone who'd jump up and kill that wasp!  :D
And yes, I know God created wasps, but for the life of me, I don't understand why! AND I also know it's a perhaps irrational phobia, so sue me.  ;)

Offline Lacy

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Manna: 0
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #18 on: Sat Aug 03, 2002 - 12:59:21 »
"The body" of I Cor. 11:29--"...not discerning (recognizing) the body," does it refer to the body of Jesus as he died on the cross for us or is it His body, the church, as Ketcherside suggested (see above post)?

What do you think?

Lacy

Offline mike

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2168
  • Manna: 90
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #19 on: Sat Aug 03, 2002 - 17:21:00 »
Lacy,

I agree with Ketcherside. The body of Christ to be discerned is the church.

Mike
 :D

Offline nerdneh

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1015
  • Manna: 0
  • Moderator
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #20 on: Sun Aug 04, 2002 - 00:10:01 »
Taking the broader context into account, Lacy, it appears as if the problem is the Corinthians are not discerning the body, that is, not recognizing the Body of Christ, His chosen people (redeemed by His blood). For, in chapter 11 they are more into having a picnic than recognizing the solidarity they have with fellow believers.

I suppose this is the same thing, since the Church is His body, and He is the head of the body, the church. So, the non-discerners are not seeing either Christ or the people of Christ. They have no heart for the oneness they have in Christ, nor any sympathy for a brother or sister.

Distractions, as you say, are the enemy. I recall G. C. Brewer writing about baptizing some fellow in a creek and as he was about to immerse him, Brewer saw a water snake swimming nearby. The preacher whispered to the man, "Now, I don't want you to be alarmed, but there is a snake nearby. We'll wait a minute and then he'll be gone and we'll finish the baptism."

At which the man shouted; "A SNAKE!" and ran helter-skelter out of the water and no one could persuade him to come back in for the baptism. He seemingly had lost all zeal for being dunked.

Offline susieface

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 185
  • Manna: 0
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #21 on: Sun Aug 04, 2002 - 04:12:59 »
On the being drawn to "worship style or to Christ", I think anyone who walks into a worship assembly is expecting to meet Christ.  That is just a given.  We are there because we are drawn to him.  But whether we stay or visit a 2nd time may be due to the worship style.  What you see or prefer will draw you to attend or visit again or chose to go elsewhere.  If someone likes the worship service/minister's style they will return and then start looking at the deeper issues, closeness, friendliness, opportunities for seervice, doctrinal issues, youth activities etc.  If we chose to go somewhere different a person isn't rejecting God, just that particular assembly not the fellow christians.

  After all when we shop for clothes if we do not like any of the clothes in one store, we move on to another one until we find a store that sells what we prefer.  This doesn't mean we are rejecting clothes altogether, just some specific stores.

My own opinions again,
Susie

Offline kanham

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2313
  • Manna: 208
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #22 on: Sun Aug 04, 2002 - 04:37:36 »
First off, I love the clothing reference, well said.

I would strongly agree that changing the worship style is not a quick fix to spiritual problems. I don’t disagree that we have to be careful, I just think it really goes back to hearts. Either style could be heart felt. I worked with Let’s Start Talking back in college and the people who came to read with us came to brush up on their English skills, not learn about Jesus. What has happened time and time again is that the good news has gotten to the persons heart and a child of God is born.

What avenue God takes to reach is really his prerogative in matters of the heart. To me the scriptures say freedom has been given. It was hearts when it came to eating meats etc.

I think a lot of what is motivating people to push for change is the fact that they are concerned that the current style is keeping people away. That a younger generation is looking for a style of “clothing

  • Guest
Experiential Worship
« Reply #23 on: Tue Aug 06, 2002 - 03:36:21 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (janine @ Aug. 02 2002,00:52)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I remember reading something by Roy Rogers and Dale Evans, about how they always went to worship wherever was closest to their home.

If none of the externals ever matter, and it's all and only about the heart, I guess ol' Roy & Dale were doing the right thing.

Or is something more like a balance needed, a proper heart toward the Lord and the worship, while also paying attention to externals?[/quote]
I was really struck by this comment about Roy Rogers and Dale Evans.  My personal views match theirs somewhat, just based on your one statement.  I'm comfortable worshipping with Christians wherever.  Although, I don't typically use the criteria "closest to home".  I guess that I don't think that "externals" matter much (in fact, they seem to just get in the way, sometimes).  Why do externals matter?   It makes me sad that externals matter so much that they have to be balanced with a proper heart toward the Lord(?)   Sorry, I know that I may be taking this too literally.  I guess that I can understand people having varying beliefs, even traditions or preferences (due to our humanness?).   But, I could somehow see God rejoicing if we could worship together just as Christians, celebrating what all Christians have in common, not concerned much with those externals or our differences.  Did God have in mind for us to be so divided?  Maybe, that's the purpose for the many rooms in heaven.   OK, I probably couldn't worship with Christians handing snakes, but that's not too picky, is it?
P.  S.  I don't know you, Janine, but you seem like a really funny wise lady!  Please (any & all) send me back your thoughts on this.  Thank you...

  • Guest
Experiential Worship
« Reply #24 on: Tue Nov 05, 2002 - 10:06:49 »
[/quote]I think a lot of what is motivating people to push for change is the fact that they are concerned that the current style is keeping people away.

Hit the nail on the head!  Some of you may be familiar with Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, KY.  It is a "megachurch" with over 20,000 members.  Bob Russell, the senior minister, wrote a book about the Southeast story entitled, "When God Builds A Church."  One of the reasons he gives for their phenomenal growth is a commitment to excellence.  They do this by encouraging their members to give God their best in whatever area of ministry they choose to work in (and they have 'em all, believe me).  The result is that the obsticles are removed and everyone knows that when they invite their frinds and co-workers to the assembly, they will experience a first-rate relevant presentation of the gospel as well as enthusiastic worship.

Offline susieface

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 185
  • Manna: 0
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #25 on: Sun Aug 04, 2002 - 04:46:05 »
I also do not believe a preference in worship style has to be about having a bad heart.  It very well may be, but it also may not be.  Preferences are just that a preference!  It becomes a heart problem when we get too concerned with change on both sides of the issue.
One of the reasons we changed churches for style, it was becoming a heart problem for me.  I couldn't get my heart right anymore.  This sin of mine was affecting my worship at church assemblies only though.

You know there is something wrong with the heart when the very thing you are trying to get across(raising of hands was one) you do not even feel like doing anymore.  So, move on and I was finally able to get my heart back right.  No more obstacles or stares you know.  This is the wrong attitude, but it was real and my own real struggle.
Susie

Offline spurly

  • All glory to God and to Jesus the Son!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 15743
  • Manna: 319
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #26 on: Wed Sep 25, 2002 - 12:13:21 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Arkstfan @ Aug. 08 2002,3:07)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]If you have a major concert venue in your city sit outside when Aerosmith comes, then when Brittany Spears comes, and then Alan Jackson. Three sellouts most likely but three very different audiences. Why do we expect to reach all the world or even all of our city using one single method of presentation? The music industry understands it cannot reach everyone by selling just one style of music, why can't we?[/quote]
Hey ARKSTFAN,

This was a great explanation of why we need to put the same good news in different containers to reach different people.  

Thanks,

Kevin

Offline Skip

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4206
  • Manna: 45
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #27 on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 17:28:03 »
Odd.

The article that you mention seems to imply that 'traditional' coc worship falls short of 'experiential worship'.

Yet every Sunday AM I engage in 'experiential worship' that is superior to that which was described.

It's called the "Lord's Supper".

So, in response to the questions...
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]1. Does our worship involve the body, mind, heart, and soul of each individual?[/quote]Yes!

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]2. How many senses are involved in our worship?[/quote]All.
Not just the sight and sound that seem so important to the author, but touch, taste, and smell, too.

But are we so 'stuck in a rut', so 'blinded by the forest', to notice that what we already have is better than what we're searching for?

Offline Skip

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4206
  • Manna: 45
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #28 on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 21:40:27 »
‘Experiential worship’ – after thinking about it, that’s really a tautology.
Yeah, you’re gonna have to look up ‘tautology’ if you don’t know what it means! :p

***

Very sad.

First off, chrischar and I have two very different views of the same event, the Lord’s Supper in a ‘traditional’ coc setting.
May I suggest that if it’s not outright “unscriptural

Offline kanham

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2313
  • Manna: 208
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #29 on: Thu Aug 01, 2002 - 23:56:07 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]But I really don't see how it would solve the heart problem; I fear that people might be drawn to your worship style instead of to Christ.
And settle down into a new-found comfort zone.[/quote]
I have used that one before but no longer do. To me that is like telling the early church to stop being excited about Christ, stop meeting together so much, stop selling everything you have, stop helping the widows etc. because people might be drawn by your actions and not Christ. When people are drawn by these things they are being drawn by Christ. So if someone is drawn to worship because it connects with something missing inside, their heart, because it is Christ who is being worshiped, glorified, lifted-up, then I would say Jesus Christ is the reason.

You make a good point about the heart. I could not agree more. This would mean that we should basically see a worship time spent with a mix of old and new, clapping and no clapping, power point and song book, hands raised and hands folded in prayer etc. because in the end, only the persons heart matters. I just don’t see this happening.

I would say that we have spent way to much time focused on worship style while the world we live in is dying whether we worship traditional or contemporary but who is going to blink on this one? We always expect the other side to make the compromise.

Which brings me back to my original post. In 1939 H. Leo Boles wrote an article in response to the split on bringing back unity to the movement. What do you think his conclusion was? Do everything our way and we can be united which brings us back to why this is an issue.

  • Guest
Experiential Worship
« Reply #30 on: Fri Aug 02, 2002 - 20:24:03 »
Is the story true they tell about the "Church of God Grill" in Atlanta? Just curious.

Offline Lacy

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Manna: 0
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #31 on: Sat Aug 03, 2002 - 01:14:49 »
Moon,

Come to think of it, I don't love wasps too! But couldn't one close his eyes for just another minute or two and discern something besides the wasp? Now, a groundhog is another matter; if he discerns you he will whistle and head for his hole.

And about sueing you, I think I would but I remember how the Word says that I am not to go to court against a brother. If I knew you better, perhaps I could figure out that you are not a brother after all--maybe you thought you were saved before you were baptized, or maybe you attended a denomination or somethning--if so, then I could sue you.

But you're a good brother.

Lacy

Offline david johnson

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3518
  • Manna: 67
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #32 on: Sat Aug 03, 2002 - 12:23:51 »
i don't agree w/the article.  an urging to exhibit the behaviors
before the worship seems backwards.  if they appear naturally, they can be evaluated as needed.  if they are preprogrammed, they will happen (if you build it....) and you automatically lose any valid claim of spontaneity.

dj

  • Guest
Experiential Worship
« Reply #33 on: Sat Aug 03, 2002 - 20:24:50 »
I think it's both. The Lord's Supper is a symbolic retelling of the gospel - what Jesus did for us in His physical body, and it's always appropriate to be reminded of that. I don't personally believe this means I need to strain to conjure up a vivid mental image of Jesus' agonies in His crucifixion, but I do believe I'm (we're) to meditate on that sacrifice with a heart of thanksgiving because of what Christ accomplished. It's also about us, His body, the church, communing with each other, expressing our unity in Him and our equality among each other, which is ours because of Him. The Supper reminds us, as a body, that no one of us is more important than anyone else in the body. We're reminded that age, sex, race, social or economic status don't matter for those in Christ.  So the (physical) body of Christ is intertwined with the (church) body of Christ in the celebration of eating His supper together. We're one in Christ, and Christ is in all.

Found some good commentary here:
True Spirituality: A Study in Corinthians - Lessons 24 & 25: Corrections for Communion (1 Cor. 11:17-34)

Offline Rocketman

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • Manna: 2
  • Rocketman
    • View Profile
Experiential Worship
« Reply #34 on: Sun Aug 04, 2002 - 04:24:16 »
"Drawn Worship Style or Christ"

There have been many excellent points made on this including the last post by susieface.  I just wanted to thank those who have chimed in.  

It is really a poor argument against changing styles.  There could be some good arguments (against changing worship styles), this just isnt one of them.   With that mindset it seems you could never change anything as that could be an argument someone could throw out.  (ie "lets feed the hungry, well some might be drawn to the food and not Christ). It really becomes a prison.
RM