Author Topic: Ask an Orthodox Christian  (Read 32922 times)

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Offline E-RPM SOFT COM

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Re: Ask an Orthodox Christian
« Reply #105 on: Thu Aug 13, 2009 - 11:57:09 »
How does the Orthodox Church view the Coptic Church?




« Last Edit: Tue Oct 13, 2009 - 11:10:48 by spurly »

Angelos

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Re: Ask an Orthodox Christian
« Reply #106 on: Tue Aug 18, 2009 - 16:44:14 »
Are you concerned that the Orthodox churches have devolved in silos of "ethnic" churches that luck universal ("Catholic") appeal?? For all my misgivings about the pope, having a unified leadership has helped the Catholic church become truly universal.

If one goes to a Catholic church in NYC, he/she will see people from many races and ethnic groups praying together. If one goes to a Greek Orthodox church, he will just see Greeks who speak Greek, talk about Greece and eat Greek food. This silo/ethnic mentality is a big turn-off for potential converts 

Offline trifecta

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Re: Ask an Orthodox Christian
« Reply #107 on: Sat Aug 22, 2009 - 20:31:32 »
How does the Orthodox Church view the Coptic Church?


Take a look earlier in this thread (page 1) and you will get a fuller answer.
But to answer your question.   We like them loads, but are not in communion
with them.  This is because they pulled out of the 4th Ecumenical Council. 
Their disagreement was about politics, not theology.   We hope to be in
communion with them soon. 

Offline trifecta

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Re: Ask an Orthodox Christian
« Reply #108 on: Sat Aug 22, 2009 - 21:07:16 »
Are you concerned that the Orthodox churches have devolved in silos of "ethnic" churches that luck universal ("Catholic") appeal??

Yes, but there are more important issues.   More to follow.

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For all my misgivings about the pope, having a unified leadership has helped the Catholic church become truly universal.

You have a point.  A king (or a royal family) tends to unite a people.  However, it doesn't ensure correct theology.   We got the right doctrine.   As much as we want unity (and we do), doctrine is more important.

Like a king, a pope can change the church's thinking at the drop of a hat.  Pope Pius and Vatican I is a good demonstration of this.  After more than 1800 years of Christianity, the Bishop of Rome suddenly becames infallible (when speaking ex cathedra)?  Only a monarch can make such a change so quickly.  In Vatican II, change becomes a good thing.  And since then there have been lots of changes in liturgical practices.   The problem with the modern Papacy is the same as with monarchy:  Your religion is as only good as its leader. 

Orthodox, on the other hand, never change our liturgy and practices.  Does that make us stagnant?   Maybe a little, but it also keeps us from bad theology and in conformation with  the church of the Apostles.   

We have our problems, but no one in the church is denying the Trinity, resurrection, or incarnation of Christ--it's too much part of how we think (although I, as a convert, am not the best example of this.)

Another example:  The liberation theology movement of the 1980s in Latin America was taking hold and had nothing to do with the gospel.  So, while the RCC church was unified, this  branch was not practicing correct theology.  IMHO, Pope John Paul II's best accomplishment was not his travels, but quashing this movement.   Yes, this is an example of the plusses of papal authority, but in our church, nothing like this happens in the first place, because Holy Tradition is part of each person. 

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If one goes to a Catholic church in NYC, he/she will see people from many races and ethnic groups praying together.

This is a beautiful thing about the RCC, I must admit.

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If one goes to a Greek Orthodox church, he will just see Greeks who speak Greek, talk about Greece and eat Greek food. This silo/ethnic mentality is a big turn-off for potential converts 

Yeah, this is a problem, but even though I am not Greek, I have felt welcome at a Greek Orthodox Church.  And their food is excellent!

Still, this mentality is an obstacle.  However, as more converts come into the church (my church is about 30 to 40 percent convert), this attitude will and is changing. 

Offline Ramy

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Re: Ask an Orthodox Christian
« Reply #109 on: Mon Nov 30, 2009 - 10:50:35 »
Hi trifecta, I'm a coptic Orthodox and I pray with you, I'm very happy to read your topics and I really felt good with your nice words, I feel that God will unite us again, I feel like it's going to happen in our lifetimes.
Greetings from Egypt my brother and God bless you.

Offline Ryan2010

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Re: Ask an Orthodox Christian
« Reply #110 on: Sun Dec 27, 2009 - 22:59:41 »
Are you concerned that the Orthodox churches have devolved in silos of "ethnic" churches that luck universal ("Catholic") appeal?? For all my misgivings about the pope, having a unified leadership has helped the Catholic church become truly universal.

If one goes to a Catholic church in NYC, he/she will see people from many races and ethnic groups praying together. If one goes to a Greek Orthodox church, he will just see Greeks who speak Greek, talk about Greece and eat Greek food. This silo/ethnic mentality is a big turn-off for potential converts 

This was something I wondered about when I first considered the Orthodox but at the Church I go to (OCA), the liturgy is in English and there are a lot of different people from all kinds of backgrounds that attend.  There are people from Crete (sp?), Bulgaria, Russia, Greece and of course America. 

The other neat thing about many of the Orthodox Churches, particularly the OCA is that we have a large convert population.  Nearly 50% percent of the parishioners are converts.  Not far from here an entire Lutheran Church converted, pastor and all. 

I was initially concerned that the Orthodox Church might be an "ethnic" Church and that there wasn't much Evangelizin' in the sense of spreading the good news, I was pleasantly surprised to find that this was just a stigma and might have been more true decades ago. 

Perhaps some regions are more cultural than other but I live in a small town in Pennsylvania and we have a very diverse group and the Orthodox churches in and around our area seem to be similar.  There are even some English only speakers that seem to enjoy going to the Greek liturgies on a regular basis. 

The West doesn't seem to know much about the Orthodox but that is changing quite rapidly. 

In regards to being subject to the Pope, that's one of the things that seem to draw quite a lot of converts.  Many people in protestant circles see the dualism and pluralism that is rampant in protestant circles and are asking themselves, "what is Church?". 

The way I understand Rome's ecclessiology is that all dogma and doctrine comes down from the pope.   That is to say, the Church, the body of Christ itself is subject to the Pope, an individual. 

In Protestantism, this is actually quite similar but instead of one Pope the individual him/herself seems to be the one with the authority to decide upon all matters of dogma and doctrine.  Again, we see the Church subject to the interpretations and decisions of an individual.  For instance, what would Lutherans believe if not for Luther?  Luther, not unlike the Pope, came up with his own set of dogmas and approaches to doctrine and then taught others his teachings to preserve (Traditions) and so on and so forth.  However, if Luther were to return to the Lutherans, he would probably reform his own Church. 

Pluralism sort of steps in and says, well because the Baptist doesn't agree with the Methodist (though both teachings conflict) we'll just sort of overlook our doctrines by subjecting them and lifting up the individual, even though the doctrines are "of Christ". 

Dangerous stuff, imo. 

In Orthodoxy you have Christ teaching the Apostles.  The Apostles surround Christ,  the bishops the Apostles, the priests the bishops, the people the priests etc.  In other words, it's the entire body that interprets scripture and handles dogmatics.  The strict standard being that it must aggressively preserve what the Apostles taught and serve only to magnify that which came before it, not improve upon it or make what came before it obsolete by a constantly evolving and "better" Tradition than that which came before it. 

So we can lose a Bishop or a Priest or a layman and he can go into error but we don't subject "the Church" to that bishop or any individual, so the Tradition that the Apostles handed to us remains in tact within the "body", not the head of an individual, save Christ. 




Offline frjim

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Re: Ask an Orthodox Christian
« Reply #111 on: Sat May 12, 2012 - 01:02:15 »
Actually, the Copts are an Orthodox Church: Oriental Orthodox, as distincrt from Eastern Orthodox. The Eastern
And Oriental Orthodox are not in communuion because ofa misunderstanding over the phrasing of their confession
concerning the dual nature of Christ.

Their confessional language differs because their delegate, for one reason or another, never made it to the Council of Chalcedon and they were therefore unable to subscribe to the common confession of fhe Council.

All the dialoguie commissions now agree that the two confessions are essentially the same, and that the Orientals who use the Coptic confessional language are not in error. There are, hoiwever, separate hierarchical structures wherever there are both Eastern and Oriental chuches, so the political situation remaoins to be worked out.

Hope this helps.

Blessings--Fr. Jim + (ROCOR Western Rite)

Offline trifecta

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Re: Ask an Orthodox Christian
« Reply #112 on: Sun May 13, 2012 - 16:55:11 »
Thanks, and welcome Father Jim!

Offline DaveW

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Re: Ask an Orthodox Christian
« Reply #113 on: Thu May 17, 2012 - 09:06:35 »
That is interesting Fr Jim.

I wonder if the Toward Jerusalem Council II has been in contact with the Oriental Orthodox?  

I know they have had audience before at least one of the EOC patriarchs (Istanbul/Constantinople I think) in addition to Ratzinger and JohnPaul 2.