Author Topic: Choosing Bishops and Patriarchs  (Read 4742 times)

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Offline winsome

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Choosing Bishops and Patriarchs
« on: Fri Mar 26, 2010 - 08:39:31 »
How are Bishops chosen in the Othodox Church?
Does the Patriarch choose them, a committee of some kind (like other Bishops) or what?
Who is consulted?

Similarly with Patriarchs.

Just curious

winsome

Offline trifecta

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Re: Choosing Bishops and Patriarchs
« Reply #1 on: Sun Apr 18, 2010 - 11:59:26 »
I was hoping someone else would answer this, but here we go.

The short answers is all bishops/metropolitans/patriarchs are chosen by a group of
clergy. 

My church recently choose a new Metropolitan.  Here is how it went.  A group of clergy for all over the geographical area (in this case, USA and Canada) met and make a recommendation. 

The bishops then vote for the new Metropolitan.  They can reject the clergy's choice and choose someone else (which they did the two previous times).  In the Orthodox choice, bishops are monastics (celibate) but priests don't have to be.  My priest is married, for example.

Every decision in Orthodoxy is much concilarly.  This is a difference we have with RCC.  I may be mistaken - but in the RCC, all bishops are chosen by the Pontiff, no?  Or is it just Cardinals?

Thanks for asking.   
   

Offline winsome

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Re: Choosing Bishops and Patriarchs
« Reply #2 on: Sun Apr 18, 2010 - 15:13:27 »
I was hoping someone else would answer this, but here we go.

The short answers is all bishops/metropolitans/patriarchs are chosen by a group of
clergy. 

My church recently choose a new Metropolitan.  Here is how it went.  A group of clergy for all over the geographical area (in this case, USA and Canada) met and make a recommendation. 

The bishops then vote for the new Metropolitan.  They can reject the clergy's choice and choose someone else (which they did the two previous times).  In the Orthodox choice, bishops are monastics (celibate) but priests don't have to be.  My priest is married, for example.

Every decision in Orthodoxy is much concilarly.  This is a difference we have with RCC.  I may be mistaken - but in the RCC, all bishops are chosen by the Pontiff, no?  Or is it just Cardinals?

Thanks for asking.   
   
You are right - it's not so concilar.

I think the way Bishops are chosen in the Catholic Church is that the Papal Nuncio (Pope's diplomatic representative) of the country takes soundings from Bishops. I think anyone, lay or clergy, can write to him but I doubt is he takes much notice of that. He then sends 3 recommendations with (I think) supporting information to Rome. This is then processed by Vatican officials who give the Pope a dossier. The Pope then chooses one of the three (or possibly none  ::smile::). I'm not absolutely sure of this but I think that's the general method. However this is relatively new (last 100-150 years I think). Prior to that it was more by the Bishops of the country.

That is in the Latin rite. It way be different in Eastern rites (Catholics rites), where priests can also be married.

Cardinals are Papl appointments. They are not actually part of the hierachical structure. 

Thanks for replying.

Offline Macrina

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Re: Choosing Bishops and Patriarchs
« Reply #3 on: Thu Apr 22, 2010 - 11:35:36 »
How are Bishops chosen in the Othodox Church?
Does the Patriarch choose them, a committee of some kind (like other Bishops) or what?
Who is consulted?

Similarly with Patriarchs.

Just curious

winsome

Bishops led by the Holy Spirit, choose from monastics new bishops . Metropolitans and Patriarchs are only bishops. In other words, men who actually live the life and teachings of Christ (meaning having left all earthly things to follow Him) are eligible to be chosen as bishops. Bishops are charged with keeping the original unchanging teachings of Jesus and the holy Apostles above all else.

Ex.
Mat 16:24     Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mat 19:21     Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

Orthodox being conciliar, have councils to decide who to appoint as a bishop. The monastic who may be chosen, has no idea he is even being considered.
He is called to take upon himself this office. He can accept or decline.


 

Offline winsome

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Re: Choosing Bishops and Patriarchs
« Reply #4 on: Thu Apr 22, 2010 - 13:33:23 »
How are Bishops chosen in the Othodox Church?
Does the Patriarch choose them, a committee of some kind (like other Bishops) or what?
Who is consulted?

Similarly with Patriarchs.

Just curious

winsome

Bishops led by the Holy Spirit, choose from monastics new bishops . Metropolitans and Patriarchs are only bishops. In other words, men who actually live the life and teachings of Christ (meaning having left all earthly things to follow Him) are eligible to be chosen as bishops. Bishops are charged with keeping the original unchanging teachings of Jesus and the holy Apostles above all else.

Ex.
Mat 16:24     Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mat 19:21     Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

Orthodox being conciliar, have councils to decide who to appoint as a bishop. The monastic who may be chosen, has no idea he is even being considered.
He is called to take upon himself this office. He can accept or decline.


 


Thanks,

I appreciate your reply.

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Re: Choosing Bishops and Patriarchs
« Reply #4 on: Thu Apr 22, 2010 - 13:33:23 »



Offline winsome

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Re: Choosing Bishops and Patriarchs
« Reply #5 on: Fri Apr 23, 2010 - 04:09:07 »
How are Bishops chosen in the Othodox Church?
Does the Patriarch choose them, a committee of some kind (like other Bishops) or what?
Who is consulted?

Similarly with Patriarchs.

Just curious

winsome

Bishops led by the Holy Spirit, choose from monastics new bishops . Metropolitans and Patriarchs are only bishops. In other words, men who actually live the life and teachings of Christ (meaning having left all earthly things to follow Him) are eligible to be chosen as bishops. Bishops are charged with keeping the original unchanging teachings of Jesus and the holy Apostles above all else.

Ex.
Mat 16:24     Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mat 19:21     Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

Orthodox being conciliar, have councils to decide who to appoint as a bishop. The monastic who may be chosen, has no idea he is even being considered.
He is called to take upon himself this office. He can accept or decline.




A few supplementary questions on this.

By monastics do you mean celibate priests? In Catholicism a monastic would be someone , priest or brother, who lives in a monastery.

What is a Metropolitan?

Although Patriarchs are bishops, what authority do they have over other bishops that come under their area of jurisdiction?

Thanks

Offline Ryan2010

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Re: Choosing Bishops and Patriarchs
« Reply #6 on: Fri Apr 23, 2010 - 10:32:05 »
How are Bishops chosen in the Othodox Church?
Does the Patriarch choose them, a committee of some kind (like other Bishops) or what?
Who is consulted?

Similarly with Patriarchs.

Just curious

winsome


Bishops led by the Holy Spirit, choose from monastics new bishops . Metropolitans and Patriarchs are only bishops. In other words, men who actually live the life and teachings of Christ (meaning having left all earthly things to follow Him) are eligible to be chosen as bishops. Bishops are charged with keeping the original unchanging teachings of Jesus and the holy Apostles above all else.

Ex.
Mat 16:24     Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mat 19:21     Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

Orthodox being conciliar, have councils to decide who to appoint as a bishop. The monastic who may be chosen, has no idea he is even being considered.
He is called to take upon himself this office. He can accept or decline.





A few supplementary questions on this.

By monastics do you mean celibate priests? In Catholicism a monastic would be someone , priest or brother, who lives in a monastery.

What is a Metropolitan?

Although Patriarchs are bishops, what authority do they have over other bishops that come under their area of jurisdiction?

Thanks


By monastic, it means monk.  Our bishops are monks.  We don't have monk orders.  They have different rules or customs depending on the monastery.  

All Orthodox are called to a life of asceticism in a way but our priests can marry or not.  But they must decide to do this prior to becoming ordained.  So if they do not marry before they become priests, they remain unmarried.  The majority choose to marry.  

A Metropolitan is a title.  Archbishop is a Metropolitan (if I remember correctly).  They are both just different customary titles for the same thing.  Metropolitan is the Russian custom I think.  It connotes their jurisdiction.  The Metropolitan of the US for the OCA is Metropolitan Jonah.  From what I can tell they travel a bunch and keep the unity of the faith, build the churches up in unity, faith, love.  As for the legalities, dunno.  research research.

As for authority over other bishops I don't know how defined this authority is.  I'll do some research if someone doesn't answer this.  A bishop is a bishop.  They all are equal.  They might have different functions depending on the requirements of their jurisdiction.  Like if a Bishop oversees a state where there is severe persecution they may have a different role than one living in a jurisdiction that does not.  Also, like if you look at the OCA, we answer to the Russian Patriarch.  Whereas an Antiochian Bishop in the US to Antioch etc.  They often oversee the other bishops but I'm not exactly sure to what extent.  That's what I'll have to check out.  It might vary by jurisdiction or it may have been defined in the councils/canons.  

If you read the first seven councils it's basically all there.  I'll ask my Priest on Monday.  It's a good question to know a fuller answer to.  Thanks



Oh, and the bishops remain monks too.  

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2ns7zKcoqg&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuTGJYqLMlQ&feature=related[/youtube]


Blessings

Offline Macrina

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Re: Choosing Bishops and Patriarchs
« Reply #7 on: Fri Apr 23, 2010 - 11:59:18 »

Quote

A few supplementary questions on this.

By monastics do you mean celibate priests? In Catholicism a monastic would be someone , priest or brother, who lives in a monastery.

Monastics are celibate, but they do not necessarily live in monasteries. For example, St Isaac of Syria is a desert father. He didn't live in a monastery but lived in the desert. He was a monastic of the first degree and was called to be bishop of Ninevah, which he did for about 3 months then returned to the desert (hence he is known as St Isaac of Syria as well as St Isaac of Ninevah, because he was bishop there briefly). Other examples are monastics who lived in caves (ie. Mt Athos) or in the woods (ie. the Russian St Seraphim of Sarov for one example) apart from the world.
So, no, one doesn't have to live in a monastery to be a monastic.

There are differing degrees in monasticism, for instance a novice is of course a beginner or inquirer of monasticism. Bishops are chosen from what is known as "first degree" monastic orders.
Quote
What is a Metropolitan?

He is a bishop, Metropolitan is a title. Bishop is the highest order of clergy in Orthodoxy.
For more info, check out orthodoxwiki.org, see 'bishop' and 'monasticism'.
Quote
Although Patriarchs are bishops, what authority do they have over other bishops that come under their area of jurisdiction?

Thanks
Any bishops, such as Patriarchs, can call for council meetings among bishops. This doesn't mean that all bishops must attend, as a patriarch is just a bishop and is equal to any other bishop. There are bishops who are not in communion with any Patriarchs, such as my synod ROAC. The reason our bishops are not in communion with the Moscow Patriarchate is because they are not convinced that Sergianism has been completely removed from that patriarchate. The subject is addressed quite extensively on the roacusa.org site.

One of the problems with Orthodoxy in America is that Americans are so indoctrinated with Roman catholicism which includes scholasticism (as evidenced by Protestantism) that they do not understand that they do not need to be aligned with any patriarchates. There is no need to follow the papal design and ideal, as it is quite contrary to the canons of the church as well as the teachings of Christ.

There is only one head of the Church and that is our Lord Jesus Christ. And only He can forgive us sinners.

Offline stevehut

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Re: Choosing Bishops and Patriarchs
« Reply #8 on: Fri Mar 18, 2011 - 16:42:09 »
Here's the record from Scripture:

Keep in mind, the word "Overseer" is a literal translation of the Greek "Episkopos", the root of the modern term "Bishop"

2 Tim 3:

1 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.