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Offline rezar

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"And we shall reign on earth"
« on: Thu Oct 15, 2009 - 11:11:49 »
Rev.5:9-10 states that after Christ redeemed us by His blood & ascended to heaven- that Christians reigned on the earth as kings & priests to God. What glorious honor is bestowed upon us! Note how the "rider on the white horse" He was a conqueror- & through his disciples knowledge of the Lord would increase.(Dan.12)

This is why the saints are depicted in the Bible as inheriting the city that came down from heaven.
Does it ever occur to futurists that "Babylon" and "New Jerusalem" are perfectly antithetical to each other? When this is seen it becomes crystal clear that "Babylon" then, would be the Jerusalem that THEN was, which was in bondage (hence Babylon) with her children.
The kingdom struggle depicted in Revelation is one which concerns the covenant(s). Revelation has little to do with politics. It has everything to do with the struggle that Paul defines in Galatians 4. And to this agrees the entire book of Hebrews.
How can some not see this?
 Notice when you read Revelation 3:9-13 that in verse 12 it says,
"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the Temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, new Jerusalem, which cometh (presently) down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."
Was Jesus going to make the overcomer a literal pillar in a literal Temple in a literal city? This city which was in process of coming down when John wrote this, is the same city which those in Isaiah 60, who afflicted the people of God (in this case the apostate Jews), would afterward call "The city of the LORD, the Zion of the holy one of Israel." This perfectly accords with Revelation 3:9.

Back in Isaiah 60:18-22 we read,

"Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction in thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates praise ( I Peter 1:5, 10-13; 2:4-10). Thy sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee (John 8:12): but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. Thy people shall all be righteous (II Cor 5:21; Heb 12:22-24; I John 3:7). They shall inherit the land forever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified (Heb 10:35-39; 11:13,15,16). A little shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time" (Matt 13:31-33).

It should become obvious to someone with any ability to discern things spiritually that these things are describing in physical and earthly terms (much like a parable) the spiritual Kingdom of God. The Kingdom rule of God, that rules in the hearts and lives of his people, is of heavenly rule. That is why the new Jerusalem is described as coming down from heaven (God). This has nothing to do with a literal city dropping down from outer space. The church is a city set on a hill (Matt 5:14-16; Mt. Zion Heb12:22). We do not shut up the gates of heaven as the pharisees did (Matt 23:13), but instead we open them wide so that those who are in the outer darkness (outside of God's community or covenant people) can come, wash their robes and do his commands, and enter in through the gates of the city ( Rev22:14). " And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come And let him that is athirst Come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely" Revelation 22:17.


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"And we shall reign on earth"
« on: Thu Oct 15, 2009 - 11:11:49 »

k-pappy

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #1 on: Thu Oct 15, 2009 - 23:51:53 »
"How can some not see this?"

Because you have be a mental gymnist to follow your reasoning.  First of all, the Bible speaks in future tense, you speak in past tense.  Secondly, you link passages in ways that do not fit (ie Daniel 12 and Rev 12).  And finally, you take partial Bible verses out of context and play with them to make them say something that was not intened by their authors.

In Christ,
KP

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #1 on: Thu Oct 15, 2009 - 23:51:53 »

Offline rezar

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #2 on: Fri Oct 16, 2009 - 08:38:09 »
"How can some not see this?"

Because you have be a mental gymnist to follow your reasoning.  First of all, the Bible speaks in future tense, you speak in past tense.  Secondly, you link passages in ways that do not fit (ie Daniel 12 and Rev 12).  And finally, you take partial Bible verses out of context and play with them to make them say something that was not intened by their authors.

In Christ,
KP


K-pappy, i'm not seeing where i tied Dan.12 & Rev12. ???  Because they are not exactly the best parallels.(even though it's during the same great trib time on Israel)
 Dan.12 speaks of the Resurrection at the time immediately after the great tribulation on the Jews & Rev.12's main point is to show how those Hebrew Christians escaped Jerusalem-
as Jesus warned them in Mt.24:15. He appeared a second time for those that were waiting for him. Jesus demonstrated His salvation on those Christians. (Not for sin, but for salvation-Heb.9:28) God saved them (temporal salvation) from the the devil's short time/God's wrath on the Jews, city & temple was to fulfill this:6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,(2Thess.1:6-7)

And i do disagree that the Bible only speaks in a future tense. Even so, the "time was near" the kingdom of heaven was "at hand" - the events of Rev. also were to shortly take place. Future WAS future to the apostles only. If the end was "near" as Peter & the whole N.T. attests to- then Scripture proves it was it was future to Peter's writing in AD62, Paul writing in AD60, John's writing in AD64, & so on. Tradition has blinded much of the church. They think John wrote Rev. in 95. Yet even if he did (which the internal evidence proves otherwise & for the early date) they still won't accept God's timing saying- the events were to take place shortly. Your 95AD falls on its very face- bc how long do you think John lived? Even a late date shows it TOOK PLACE 20 yrs.after we claim it did! Why, bc you'd still be denying God's words. "take place shortly"

So futurists step on their own feet, & easily. It is better to clear your mind & accept the earlier date of writing- this way the prophecies can unfold before your very eyes.

But futurists do not want to accept that we are in the New Jerusalem on earth. Why? i think bc they want more. They want a carnal eden- even though the flesh does not come after the spiritual - but the opposite. The man of the flesh came 1st. The spiritual comes after.

Sometimes there is prophecy that speaks in the past tense. In fact, Rev.20 speaks in the prophetic past tense. And uses the aortic form- all past tense:
  
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Why does John speak like that? Because he's telling their story. He's speaking about the millennium- the 40 yrs. from Jesus to His return, when Israel was once again in the wilderness (Rev.12) & God was giving them 40 yrs. to merge with Christianity- or perish in the war. The "body" & soul of the Old Covenant was about to be destroyed in the Lake of Fire.
« Last Edit: Fri Oct 16, 2009 - 08:52:39 by rezar »

son of God

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #3 on: Fri Oct 16, 2009 - 08:57:14 »
"over" is different than "on".  I am the head over my wife and children.  I am not the head ON them!  You have argued in front of your data.

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #3 on: Fri Oct 16, 2009 - 08:57:14 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline rezar

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #4 on: Fri Oct 16, 2009 - 09:23:28 »
"over" is different than "on".  I am the head over my wife and children.  I am not the head ON them!  You have argued in front of your data.

Did you post on the right thread, sog?  What are you talking about?

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #4 on: Fri Oct 16, 2009 - 09:23:28 »



Offline Eagle

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #5 on: Sat Oct 17, 2009 - 21:36:36 »
How does, if it does, Romans 14:17 fit into your thoughts...








K- Pappy i will play nice....

Thank you Mrs Mac

Offline rezar

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #6 on: Tue Oct 20, 2009 - 20:59:18 »
by Eagle,
Quote
How does, if it does, Romans 14:17 fit into your thoughts...

 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Yes, one of Paul's descriptions of the kingdom of God/heaven as a spiritual consciousness & state. Much like some of his other writings that show how the living are"raised up" spiritually- to "heavenly places" in glory, same as those who have died.

Unlike the popular concept among the Jews about the resurrection & kingdom was that it would subsist in the material realm. They looked for an earthly kingdom.

The "change" Paul said of the living at Christ's return, was to be spiritual & soteriological.
Jesus would return & raise the dead- then those that were alive & remained would be translated upon dissolution of the body at death.


son of God

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #7 on: Tue Oct 20, 2009 - 21:14:09 »
"over" is different than "on".  I am the head over my wife and children.  I am not the head ON them!  You have argued in front of your data.

Did you post on the right thread, sog?  What are you talking about?

Yes.  Where does it state "on" the earth?  Thanks.

Offline rezar

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #8 on: Tue Oct 20, 2009 - 21:45:42 »
"over" is different than "on".  I am the head over my wife and children.  I am not the head ON them!  You have argued in front of your data.

Did you post on the right thread, sog?  What are you talking about?

Yes.  Where does it state "on" the earth?  Thanks.
Rev.5:8-10,
Revelation 5:8-10 (King James Version)

 8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

 9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

 10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Revelation 5:8-10 (New King James Version)

Worthy Is the Lamb
   
8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:


      “ You are worthy to take the scroll,
      And to open its seals;
      For You were slain,
      And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
      Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
       10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
      And we shall reign on the earth.

son of God

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #9 on: Wed Oct 21, 2009 - 00:39:38 »
Thanks Rezar.

Offline freeman4

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #10 on: Thu Nov 26, 2009 - 11:23:14 »
Isaiah 2:1-4

    * "The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
    * And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
    * And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
    * And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

Again, it doesn't matter what one posts, people will not agree with it. The above shows that God Kingdom will be on this Earth and there are many more 

Offline rezar

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Re: "And we shall reign on earth"
« Reply #11 on: Thu Nov 26, 2009 - 12:49:48 »
Isaiah 2:1-4

    * "The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
    * And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
    * And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
    * And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

Again, it doesn't matter what one posts, people will not agree with it. The above shows that God Kingdom will be on this Earth and there are many more 

Ooo no, Isaiah 2-4 is a prophecy about Israel's "last days'" (Isaiah 2:2). John was in the last days (Acts 2:15)
Israel was guilty of shedding blood of the prophets in Isaiah2-4. "Babylon" was guilty of shedding the blood of the prophets (Rev.16:6).
The Day of the Lord to punish the blood guilt -is seen in Isaiah 2:19 & 4:2. In that day that the Lord redeemed Israel, He would do so by the spirit of judgment and the spirit of fire" (Isa.4:4)

The Day of the Lord against Babylon "where the Lord was slain" in Rev.11:8.

A Tabernacle to follow the Day of the Lord (Isa.4:4-6)

A Tabernacle to follow the day of the Lord - (in Rev.21:2)

The fulfillment far off in Isaiah's day-  to occur in Israel's "last days"

The fulfillment "must shortly come to pass" - (Rev.22:6,10,12, etc.)


We ARE in the "new heavens & earth" where righteousness dwells.

St. Paul or the author of Hebrews described what "the shaking of heavens & earth meant" also. And how the living were spiritually raised up to sit in heavenly places with Christ.

"23: It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24: For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26: For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself" (Heb. 9).

The end of the Old Covenant "heaven & earth" had arrived the Mediator & the New Covenant world in Christ arrived with the fall of Jerusalem in AD70.

The New Jerusalem is EARTH (& the universal church in Christ) NOW.



 

     
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