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Author Topic: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?  (Read 1917 times)

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Elijah returns

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144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« on: Sat Dec 12, 2009 - 19:38:50 »
The Jehovahs witnesses claim to be of this group, also make claims to be the faithful and discreet slave class.

Firstly, the FDS are not appointed until the end or at the conclusion of all things (Luke 12)

They say the 144000 rose to Christ in 1919, yet were sealed in 1935??? a bit like getting a prize before competing for it.

But, the remnant of the 144000 are not sealed until before the time of the end begins, which is the trampling of the nations as spoken of in Luke 21 and lasts for 21 months only when it does begin, and since 1914  almost 100 years have passed so that is not a short period of time.

Some of the remnant will die before the conclusion, but some will still be alive when Christ comes at the conclusion, at the 7th trumpet, when both those dead and those alive rise together in an instant to their thrones to be with Christ.

Most of the claims by JWs that they say they fulfill have not happened yet, they are for the latter days which are still yet to come, as is the ousting of Satan.

JWs are in for a real surprise when the end time does come and will quickly be shaken from their reasoning on how they were chosen and how they say they fulfill all these prophecies.

The proof will be in that when we discover who will be in Gods kingdom and who will not. Its Gods kingdom and its up to him to decide.

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144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« on: Sat Dec 12, 2009 - 19:38:50 »

Offline Mr. J

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #1 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 13:18:27 »
12,000 will come from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.

(So much for those who believe only the Jews are left in the world.)

It appears the 144,000 are not going to be exclusively JW.  (unless they have at least 12,000 from each tribe, etc.)
« Last Edit: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 13:25:19 by Mr. J »

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #1 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 13:18:27 »

Stucky

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #2 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 01:14:33 »
Revelation 7
144,000 Sealed
 1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
 5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
   from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
   from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
 6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
   from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
   from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
 7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
   from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
   from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
 8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
   from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
   from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

Doesn't sound like Jehovah's Witnesses to me, unless there are 144,000 Jewish JW's.

Revelation 14
The Lamb and the 144,000
 1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

If, for no other reason, the Jehovah's Witnesses aren't the 144,000 it would be because of verse 5 above.  The JW's are liars because they claim that Jesus is not God.

Offline Mr. J

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #3 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 02:39:27 »
Revelation 7
144,000 Sealed
 
Doesn't sound like Jehovah's Witnesses to me, unless there are 144,000 Jewish JW's.


Only 12,000 Jews, just as the scripture you quoted says.

132,000 from the other eleven tribes of Israel.

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #3 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 02:39:27 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline glen

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #4 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 03:48:37 »
this theory they have sounds a bit like those KKK nazis that think the anglo saxons are the descendants of the jews
the 144000 will definitely be of jewish descent, though i don't mean necessarily pure jewish blood - that would be impossible


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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #4 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 03:48:37 »



Stucky

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #5 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 18:45:41 »
Revelation 7
144,000 Sealed
 
Doesn't sound like Jehovah's Witnesses to me, unless there are 144,000 Jewish JW's.


Only 12,000 Jews, just as the scripture you quoted says.

132,000 from the other eleven tribes of Israel.

They are all part of Israel.  Exactly what tribe are the JW's a part of?

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #6 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 18:49:57 »
Revelation 7
144,000 Sealed
 
Doesn't sound like Jehovah's Witnesses to me, unless there are 144,000 Jewish JW's.


Only 12,000 Jews, just as the scripture you quoted says.

132,000 from the other eleven tribes of Israel.

I don't think "Jew" is a tribe of Israel...

Stucky

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #7 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 18:53:21 »
Revelation 7
144,000 Sealed
 
Doesn't sound like Jehovah's Witnesses to me, unless there are 144,000 Jewish JW's.


Only 12,000 Jews, just as the scripture you quoted says.

132,000 from the other eleven tribes of Israel.

I don't think "Jew" is a tribe of Israel...

Jew is derived from Judah which is a part of modern day Israel, about which prophecy is speaking of.  ::smile::

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #8 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 18:56:13 »
Aren't Israelites considered Jewish?

Stucky

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #9 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 19:03:08 »
Aren't Israelites considered Jewish?


Okay Charles, I'll bite, what is the point you are trying to make?   ::smile::

son of God

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #10 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 19:50:02 »
Even cursory research shows that the JW cult stated that they were of it, but then the numbers became more than than, and they revised the numbers.  After another surpassing of their stated number, they did away with a number altogether.  Somewhat humorous, really.

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #11 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 22:18:15 »
Aren't Israelites considered Jewish?


Okay Charles, I'll bite, what is the point you are trying to make?   ::smile::

I wasn't, I just don't want to be mistaken if I am.

Offline Mr. J

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #12 on: Thu Dec 17, 2009 - 01:32:58 »
Aren't Israelites considered Jewish?

Well, 1/12 of Israel is Jewish.  The other eleven tribes were from Judah's brothers.

Israel is a name that encompasses all of the 12 tribes.  When the 10 1/2 tribes split from Judah (Jews), Israel became the name for the 10 1/2 tribes that split.  When the 10 1/2 tribes were scattered, the name, Israel, began to be used very often to refer to the 1 1/2 tribe remnant, consisting of Judah and the half tribe of Benjamin, who are also collectively called the Jews.  The name Israel is also used later in the Bible to refer to all 12 tribes.  One has to read within the context the use.

The entire book of Hosea is explaining the difference between Israel and Judah (Jews) and why Israel is scattered and the Jews (and part of Benjamin) remain.

Read Hosea.

Offline fanuvmxpx

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #13 on: Thu Dec 17, 2009 - 11:21:01 »
What I always find funny...there are tons of JW's right? I always ask them if they know for a fact that they are of the 144,000. They always say "no".

Then I ask them if they would like to have certainty that they with this group in Heaven. "Yes". Then I tell them about Jesus.

Stucky

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #14 on: Thu Dec 17, 2009 - 20:47:31 »
For a map of Israel and Juday go to:

http://www.bible-history.com/maps/israel_judah_kings.html

Israel was the Northern tribes and Juday was the Southern tribes.

When Israel Became "Israel" and "Judah"
by Wayne Blank

Throughout human history, kingdoms and empires have often divided or fallen as the result of a single unwise decision made by a human leader. Rehoboam, the grandson of King David, and son of King Solomon, certainly qualifies in that category. When Rehoboam became king of all Israel upon the death of his father, he gave the people a "take it or leave it" refusal when they asked for relief from their heavy government burden. Not only did most of them "leave it," they left him.

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/20020502.htm

blu

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #15 on: Sun Dec 20, 2009 - 13:13:12 »
From what i learned about the 144000 is that they are the ones who are saved during the church age from  ]Ad 33 to Ad 1988] but when Satan took over the church salvation ceased to exist in the church [(2Thes 2:4)  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
].
However, when the latter rain began on the Jubile year of 1994 God used the spiritual church to evangelize the world, and bring in the rest of the unsaved. [(Rev 7:9)  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
]

Stucky

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Re: 144000, are the jehovahs witnesses really of this group?
« Reply #16 on: Sun Dec 20, 2009 - 20:37:55 »
From what i learned about the 144000 is that they are the ones who are saved during the church age from  ]Ad 33 to Ad 1988] but when Satan took over the church salvation ceased to exist in the church [(2Thes 2:4)  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
].
However, when the latter rain began on the Jubile year of 1994 God used the spiritual church to evangelize the world, and bring in the rest of the unsaved. [(Rev 7:9)  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
]

I disagree Blu,

Satan has never taken over the Church and salvation has never ended for the church.  If that was true YOU would not be saved.  2 Thess. 2:4 applies to the anti-christ when the Abomination of Desolation occurs.

There is no spiritual Church saving people today, that is the work of the Holy Spirit.  Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?"

 14I answered, "Sir, you know."

   And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore,
   "they are before the throne of God
      and serve him day and night in his temple;
   and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.