2012! DOOMSDAY OR WHAT?

[Sylvia49]

Well, JHM, I read the whole thing - even all the Strong's quotes, and the different Bibles' definitions.  I'm sorry, it just confuses me.  I can't come up with your hypothesis that the US is Babylon and Canada is Chaldea.

This is a forum for Christian decussion and somehow I can't put this in a spiritual context.  I know the Bible uses metaphores, but I can't place them as you have.

I do have a personal belief about Babylon that would be part of another forum on Christian Forums.  But won't go into that here.

[JHM]

First, you may find this set of posts will help you see the connection Sylvia.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/catholic-forum/bablylon/15/

Second the post you read is not complete as of yet. There is more evidence still to be entered.

As regards the "Earthquake" please be advised that part of the unentered data is a newspaper article which shows that Canada, as a whole, is bulging upwards in the middle near Hudson's Bay. Further be advised that  the tectonic plates on both the East and West coasts of Canada are said to be "Locked"; and that pressure is building up for a major earthquake.  (Bear in mind that the crust of the earth is only 20 miles thick, while Canada is over 4000 miles wide.) What happens when you stick a thin, (say sheet of metal), in a vice, then tighten the screws on the vice ? The metal bends no?

[JHM]

Incidentally, I caught on the news yesterday a bit that said Canada has the second highest number of "Child Pornography Websites" of any country in the world. One wonders who has the highest. "Babylon" & "Chaldea" = modern day "Sodom" & "Gomorrah"

For your information, if you were unaware of the fact, about 5 years ago the U.S. Supreme Court struck all the state and local laws against sodomy. Similarly, Canada has gone barging ahead with legalizing "Same Sex Marriage" thereby making a mockery of : "The union of a man and a woman in Holy Matrimony sanctioned by GOD for the purpose of procreation".

[Sylvia49]

I agree with the fact that the whole world is becoming like Sodom and Gomorrah.  But this is predicted in Scripture. "As in the days of Noah..." and God destroyed the earth because of it.  And He'll do it again, just as He has told us.

I will still read your posts on the link, but here I think I'll beg off.

In Him, Sylvia49

[larry2]

Dear JHM, what are we to do? I read in Luke 21:28, "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."
 

[JHM]

@ Larry :

The message for Israel and the world at large is best summed up in :

Isaiah 30 15 - 18 (New Revised Standard Version)
For thus said the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel : In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and in trust shall be your strength. But you refused and said, "No !  We will flee upon horses" -- therefore you shall flee !  and, "We will ride upon swift steeds" -- therefore your pursuers shall be swift !  A thousand shall flee at the threat of one, at the threat of five you shall flee, until you are left like a flagstaff on the top of a mountain, like a signal on a hill. Therefore the Lord waits to be gracious to you; therefore he will rise up to show mercy to you. For the Lord is a God of justice; blessed are all those who wait for him.

The message for those in "Babylon" and "Chaldea" is delivered in :

Revelation 18 4 - 8 (Jerusalem Bible)

The people of God summoned away
A new voice spoke from heaven; I heard it say, 'Come out, my people, away from her, so you do not share in her crimes and have the same plagues to bear. Her sins have reached up to heaven, and God has her crimes in mind; she is to be paid in her own coin. She must be paid double the amount she exacted. She is to have a doubly strong cup of her own mixture. Every one of her shows and orgies is to be matched by a torture or grief. I am a queen on my throne, she says to herself, and I am no widow and shall never be in mourning. For that within a single day, the plagues will fall on her : disease and mourning and famine. She will be burnt right up. The Lord God has condemned her, and he has great power.

If you think of people fleeing various battle zones all over the world for the last 60 years, hopping on planes, (fast horses), to emigrate to North America, then think of their eventual pursuers being ICBMs bearing MIRVed Nukes, (fast pursuers), you will understand why "A thousand shall flee at the threat of one"

Then if you think of how many different countries have been bombed by the U.S. over the course of those 60 years, you will understand what is meant by : "She is to be paid in her own coin. She must be paid double the amount she exacted. She is to have a doubly strong cup of her own mixture."

I don't know what you have seen of my posts so I am going to give you links to the major ones on this subject.

You will have to go through most of the thread to get it all; but background material may be found here :

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/catholic-forum/bablylon/

My own main posts may be found here :

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/catholic-forum/scripture-studies-re-'babylon'-parts-1-2-3-(more-to-follow)/

[larry2]

Dear JHM, in scripture when a woman is mentioned as peoples, it refers to religion; not nations. Revelation 18:4 is telling God's people to come out of an apostate religion at that period to escape her judgment. You mention Babylon as the USA and we are not the mother of harlots. She received her power riding the beast, or nations, and those nations and kingdoms mentioned will see their source of income go down the tubes as she falls.

[JHM]

You can lead a horse to water; but you can't make it drink. I have not seen anywhere in the Bible that says a woman represents "Apostate Religion", although I suppose in this case, it is true in the sense that "Babylon & Chaldea", the "Church of Laodicea", the "Nicolaitanes", and the "SeaDragon" are all one and the same. So if you want to call it "Apostate Religion" you may think of it in terms of the "Church of Laodicea".

Additionally if you read a book titled : "I was an economic hitman for the CIA", you might revise your opinion about the "Mother of Harlots". The long and the short of it is, the CIA has for decades been responsible for installing and supporting dictatorships throughout the third world with a view to exploiting the countries involved. The deal is basically the dictator is allowed to become filthy rich; and in return the capitalist corporations are allowed to strip the country's resources for next to nothing. This  while the people suffer incredible poverty, and oppression from their own government. Jimmy Carter, (A real Christian), pulled the plug on the Shah of Iran and Marcos in the Phillipines. The Shah fled to Hawaii, and I am sure you must remember Imelda Marcos and her 6000 pairs of shoes. Mobutu Sese Seko became a billionaire. Somoza had a fortune of $540,000,000.00 Papa Doc Duvalier had a fortune too. And that is just to name a few of them.

[larry2]

You can lead a horse to water; but you can't make it drink. I have not seen anywhere in the Bible that says a woman represents "Apostate Religion". Additionally if you read a book titled : "I was an economic hitman for the CIA", you might revise your opinion about the "Mother of Harlots". The long and the short of it is, the CIA has for decades been responsible for installing and supporting dictatorships throughout the third world with a view to exploiting the countries involved. The deal is basically the dictator is allowed to become filthy rich; and in return the capitalist corporations are allowed to strip the country's resources for next to nothing. This  while the people suffer incredible poverty, and oppression from their own government. Jimmy Carter, (A real Christian), pulled the plug on the Shah of Iran and Marcos in the Phillipines. The Shah fled to Hawaii, and I am sure you must remember Imelda Marcos and her 6000 pairs of shoes. Mobutu Sese Seko became a billionaire. Somoza had a fortune of $540,000,000.00 Papa Doc Duvalier had a fortune too. And that is just to name a few of them.

It always amazes me how you and others want to dig into some other book to back a theory. Lead a horse to water? No wonder you have never heard of a woman used to desribe or typify God's people or religion. Please consider the following writen by Gene Hawkins.

There are different references to religion referred to as a woman.

We know that Christ is that bridegroom, He is going to marry a woman out of the Church.

There is reference to five wise virgins are actually a part a heavenly company.

There are many Catholic organizations, and even churches, and we're also going to see this here in just a little bit how that women are used in scripture in order to portray religious bodies. Catholicism does that by their own admission. They talk about the Sisters of Charity. There are Our Lady of Lourdes, Our Lady of Sorrows, Our Lady of Peace, Our Lady of the Presentation, Queen of the Holy Rosary, and of course those identify with Mary.

Women in general in the scripture are typified to typify people actually in relation to the Lord; that is the weaker vessel. We find Christ of course would be the man, the husband; and He is the strong one. We read that the chaste virgin is a picture of the true bride of Christ subject unto Christ, but we know that a woman is used the portray the wife or the bride of Jehovah, and here in this place Jezebel is used to portray the false church, and it means she is claiming a place that really does not belong to her; notice what He says: "I have a few things against thee, because, Thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess." Now the first time we read of Jezebel is back when she was married to Ahab. We know that Ahab is symbolic of those nations of the end time, the spirit of the antichrist that are going to rule. Well when we get to the seventeenth chapter of Revelation we find that there is a woman riding the beast, and she is called a harlot, and indeed she is doing the same thing with the nations that Jezebel did with Ahab; she stirred Ahab; she is the one that influenced him.

[JHM]

Larry, maybe you should read what I posted HERE : (though you'll have to sort through various other posts to get mine, - of which there are several)

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/catholic-forum/bablylon/

You see it isn't just "Book Reading" that enables me to draw my conclusions. I grew up in a CIA sponsored dictatorship; and on two occasions the dictator slept in my bed, because my dad was the boss of the town where we lived. Additionally my father provided me with inside information, that is not common knowledge.

Another point closer to the original topic that I would make, is that the Bible says only the Father knows the DAY of the destruction. It doesn't say anything about the YEAR. (2012 -- ??)

Finally, you should reread the post that you quoted in your last post here, because I was in the process of editing it at the time you made your post.

[larry2]

Dear JHM, regardless of your experience, reading and what ever, when it doesn't match scripture in my understanding I must turn from it. I see "Mystery, Babylon the Great, the morher of harlots and abominations of the earth" described in Revelation 17:5 as a religious organization in the end times; not a nation.

[andyang]

I take it When Jesus says" No one knows the time of destruction not him Jesus nor the angles only the Father" to mean the year and the day and the hour.

[Stucky]

I take it When Jesus says" No one knows the time of destruction not him Jesus nor the angles only the Father" to mean the year and the day and the hour.

A very good point.  I believe we can know the times (season) because Jesus gave us the signs to watch for.

[JHM]

You may be right, but what the Bible says is this :

Mark 13 : 32 (Revised Standard Version)
"But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. - - -"

You want to change that to no-one knows, (or has ever known), anything about when it will happen, that is your perogative. I have no idea why the Mayans selected 2012 as the last YEAR on their calandar, though I do know that they were visited by a man they revered. So maybe they got some level of inside information. Me I'll just keep an open mind. God knows that pretty well all the necessary conditions are in place for the destruction if you subscribe to my beliefs about "Babylon & Chaldea" - and you have to wonder how long they can remain in place; - it points to a sooner rather than later ending.

[Stucky]

You may be right, but what the Bible says is this :

Mark 13 : 32 (Revised Standard Version)
"But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. - - -"

You want to change that to no-one knows, (or has ever known), anything about when it will happen, that is your perogative. I have no idea why the Mayans selected 2012 as the last YEAR on their calandar, though I do know that they were visited by a man they revered. So maybe they got some level of inside information. Me I'll just keep an open mind. God knows that pretty well all the necessary conditions are in place for the destruction if you subscribe to my beliefs about "Babylon & Chaldea" - and you have to wonder how long they can remain in place; - it points to a sooner rather than later ending.

JHM...Not arguing with you but, curious as to what you think would happen on 2012 (if, in fact, it did)?