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Offline LaSpino3

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483 Years:
« on: Thu Oct 19, 2017 - 15:57:44 »
“Any attempt to understand end time prophesy without examining closely the Scriptures, is like taking a piano apart in order to find a song.”

In previous posts, I stated that my foundation for all end time events begins with Nebuchadnezzar’s image of a man in Dan.2. It covers some 2600 years from head to toes; and specific dates from empire to empire. Now concerning this post,

457 B.C. was when Artaxerxes first decreed to the Jews while in captivity, will show that 26 A.D. is correct when we say Jesus was “cut off” as Daniel 9:26 had prophesied. Also the following dates: Other key dates are,
 
Oct. 4 B.C. the year Jesus was born;

Oct. 26 B.C. exactly 30 years after Jesus birth when he was baptized by John, and the Holy Spirit, and

April 5th 30 A.D. when the Lord was crucified. From birth to death, 33 ½ years.

“Messiah cut off.” Not that the Jews could ever cut God off, but the LORD gave the Jews his bill of divorce (He cut Jews off). Then, it was prophesied in Dan.9:26,

1. The Romans army led by Titus would come and destroy Jerusalem, and,

2. The Temple would be destroyed, both events occured in 70 A.D. Then the prophesy goes on to say, 
 
3. And until the end (Christ’s return) of the war (against Christ & the Jews) desolations (meaning to be cut off by the sword) are determined.” 
 
Daniel wrote, Dan.9:25, from, “The going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks (49 Years) and threescore and two weeks (434 Years = 483 years): the street shall be built again, and the wall even in troublous times.”

Four words in the above verse must be examined so we understood the text correctly. They are, restore; build; street, and wall.

The 1st word Restore: This Hebrew word has been totally miss-represented. It’s true meaning in Hebrew speaks of the Jews, returning to; sent back to; as to be sent back to a former residence, to the place of their original habitation, meaning Jerusalem. Also, to return from captivity.
 
The second word is “build.” It means to construct, repair, restore, raise up and establish.

Then, from the time of the decree in 457 B.C. to the end of 483 years, Messiah the Prince would be revealed. This happened at the river Jordon when the Christ was made known to the religious elite of Israel, to Satan, too the future disciples, the Jewish people, and to John the Baptist himself.

So what Artaxerxes degreed in 457 B.C. was, “the Jews could return to their homeland in Israel."

Question: According to this prophesy, what were the returning Jews expected to do?   To repair and restore, -----
 
3ed word: “The street (meaning the open square)” and,

4th  word: “the wall.” In Hebrew “wall” has several meanings: (1) It speaks of a ditch or moat, (2) and also the wall surrounded Jerusalem. Obviously, after 70 years in captivity, both the moat and the walls were in dire need of repair.
 
After this decree by King Artaxerxes of Persia in 457 B.C., when we go forward in time exactly 483 years (69 weeks of Years) we arrive in the year 26 A.D. at the river Jordon, when a thirty-year-old Jesus, (Luke 3:23) was baptism by John and anointed by the Holy Spirit as High Priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Now, “Seventy weeks,” meaning a full 490 years, had been determined by God upon the Jews and the land, Dan.9:24. How the 490 is broken down is important; 49 years – 434 years and 7 years, total, 490 years?

If we examine King Artaxerxes decree of 457 B.C. closely, we can determine the reason for these 3 important periods.

From the year the decree was put forth, 457 B.C., less 49 years, takes us to the close of the Old Testament about 408 B.C. No prophets had been sent by God until John the Baptist some 400 years later in 4 B.C. Why 408 B.C.

Zechariah was priest in the Temple, when the angel Gabriel was sent to him. He told him that his wife Elisabeth would bear a child. Zechariah was an old man, and did not understand. He was then struck, unable to speak, until (future) this thing (promise) came to pass. My thinking is, this occurred according to Artaxerxes decree 457 B.C. less 49 years (1 week) bringing us to 408 B.C. If John was conceived in 5 B.C., and born in 4 B.C. six months before Jesus, it must have been 3 years that he remained a mute.

After the first 49 years ended, there remained 434 years. From 408 B.C., less 434 Years (62 weeks) we arrive in the year 26 A.D: the year Jesus at the age of 30 was anointed High Priest by the Holy Spirit.

The year 26 A.D. would conclude the 483 years, leaving 7 years to confirm Jesus new covenant with the people.

These 7 years were divided into two equal periods of 3 ½ years. Jesus earthly ministry began in Oct or 26 A.D. and after his confrontation with the devil had ended, if we go forward to the day of his crucifixion, April 5, 30 A.D., 3 ½ years would have ended at the cross, leaving 3 ½ years remaining to confirm the new covenant. See Jer.31:31.

The final 3 ½ years will begin when the tribulation begins soon after the church is caught away. I feel this is when the 144,000 are marked, and the two witnesses begin their conformation of Jesus new covenant for 1260 days, or 3 ½ Years. This will conclude the full 490 years, right in the middle of the tribulation. After the two witnesses are martyred (another word for witness), then 3 days later raised from the dead, and taken into heaven. After this follows the last 3 ½ years of Jesus wrath and vengeance upon the Jews and his enemies will begin.

I believe many who study end time prophesy get confused when they attempt to mix Dan.9:25 with Dan.9:26. These are all different events, taking place at different periods of time.

Seekfirstwisdom.  LaSpino3

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483 Years:
« on: Thu Oct 19, 2017 - 15:57:44 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: 483 Years:
« Reply #1 on: Thu Oct 19, 2017 - 22:47:37 »
You seem a lot more sure of your dates and ages than Luke was:

And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age (Luke 3:23)

 ::lookaround::

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Re: 483 Years:
« Reply #1 on: Thu Oct 19, 2017 - 22:47:37 »

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: 483 Years:
« Reply #2 on: Fri Oct 20, 2017 - 01:48:57 »
LaSpino3  -  You make no mention of the total number of 4 decrees given by the Persian kings regarding the Jews' return to their homeland, but I'm sure you are aware that 4 decrees were given.  Did you notice Ussher's research that pinned down the date for Artaxerxes I's second decree (in his 20th regnal year) to a date of 454 BC?  Ussher based this date on the fact that Artaxerxes shared a 9-year vice-regency with his father, which clarifies the dates for both of his decrees, if that 9 years of vice-regency is included in the calculations.  I brought this information up before on this forum in a comment to a post called "correct decree -457bc or 444bc?"

454 BC is the year  of the 4th decree (found in Nehemiah 2:1) when the 20th year of Artaxerxes I's reign had come (including that 9-year viceroy relationship with Xerxes I - because Artaxerxes I's reign actually started with this shared co-regency in 474 BC).

As you have already brought out above, LaSpino3,  the construction of the "street" and the "wall" are most important for determining which of the decrees is being referred to, because the construction of the street and the wall link Daniel 9's prophecy to the 4th decree which was the only decree which effected the building of these two things at Jerusalem (and not any of the other 3 decrees given by the Persian kings). 

Since 1658 when Ussher's history was first published, archaeological proof has been found (mentioned by the editors of Ussher's work) that verifies the date of 454 BC that Ussher put on the beginning of the 70-week prophecy.

For those who think this is just quibbling about unimportant minutiae, it was absolutely critical that Christ the Messiah would start His ministry at the precise year it was foretold by Daniel, or He would be a false Messiah.  Identifying the 483rd year of Daniel's 70-week prophecy is vital when it comes to proving the omniscient divinity of Jesus as the Messiah that was to come.  Even the Pharisees were well aware of what year the Messiah was prophesied to show up, or they would not have sent their delegation to John (in AD 30) to ask if he, John, was the Messiah or not (John 1:19-28).  Even all the people were aware of this AD 30 year as the one in which the Messiah would appear.  As it says in Luke 3:15, "And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;.."  This was just before John was cast into prison by Herod in AD 30.

Daniel 9:27 foretold that there would be 483 years "unto Messiah the prince".  Christ Himself announced His own fulfillment of this 483rd year in Mark 1:14-15.  "THE TIME IS FULFILLED" (Kairos - the appointed season), "and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent ye and believe the gospel".  Here, Jesus was announcing that the 483rd year had just finished and the first year of the last 70th week had just started.  He spoke those words in Mark 1:14-15 just after the imprisonment of John in AD 30.  Also, "THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD" that Christ proclaimed from His Isaiah 61 reading in the Nazareth synagogue  in Luke 4:18-21 was nothing less than Christ announcing that the appointed first year of that last 70th week had already begun.  The year He was reading that passage of Isaiah was in AD 31.

The anointing of the Messiah at His baptism (in AD 27) when He was ABOUT 30 years old (as W.S. commented above), was NOT the year His ministry started.  There were 3 years between that baptism and Christ's first miracle performed at Cana in AD 30, causing His disciples to believe in Him (John 2:11).  This means that Christ was actually 36 years old at His crucifixion in AD 33 (also noted by Ussher).

The final 3 1/2 years of the UNBROKEN 490-year prophecy were fulfilled from Christ's crucifixion during Passover week in AD 33 until AD 37.  That was when Paul's vision in the temple (Acts 22:21) was a pronouncement that God wanted Paul to leave Jerusalem and concentrate his evangelistic efforts to the Gentile world instead.  We are not waiting for this 3 1/2 years to be started up again sometime in our future.  It was fulfilled long ago, BEFORE the "shattering of the power of (Daniel's) holy people" occurred in AD 70 (Daniel 12:7). 

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: 483 Years:
« Reply #3 on: Fri Oct 20, 2017 - 09:14:11 »
I did mention, I believe, the 4 decree's in a pervious post. 1. Cyrus --- Darius who reaffirmed Cyrus's, decree:  Artaxerxes 1st decree 457 or as you say 454 B.C., and his 2ed decree 444 B.C. Here is where people disagree, and it's foolish arguments that cause the Christian community to split.

Now I always believe, what God puts in a person's head, may take 2-3 or even 20 years to come to pass. All the spindle's on a wheel revolve around the hub, and God is that hub; and as to the when, that's on God's clock, not man's. Cyrus was 100 years after he was prophesied by Isaiah, and about 150 years before Artaxerxes became King. And when we read Daniel prophesies concerning these matter, at times it reads as if the event should come to pass in only a few days, or maybe weeks, but that's not how God operates.

I think our congress is a perfect example of this. They get an idea, begin their Committees, and maybe 3 or 4 years later move on the original idea. 

Now if it is 454 B.C. as Ussher claims, and we move ahead from that date 483 years, we come to 29 A.D. I cannot find any defining event that occurred in 29 A.D. concerning Jesus. But I could if I decided to move Jesus baptism back to 25 A.D. which would mean I would have to move his birth back to 5 B.C. because he was 30 when baptized, then this would allow his crucifixion to occur in 29 A.D., or something like that.

Your thoughts.
Phil

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Re: 483 Years:
« Reply #3 on: Fri Oct 20, 2017 - 09:14:11 »
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Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: 483 Years:
« Reply #4 on: Fri Oct 20, 2017 - 12:59:06 »
LaSpino3 -  I have been told that there are three things we need to consider when doing calendar calculations for scripture's events.  #1) Jewish calculations count a partial year as a full year.  Wish I had time to get a reference for you proving this, but that's what I've been told.  They "round up", as it were.  #2) Jumping from BC to AD creates some difficulties in calculations.  You could call it the "zero year" factor at work.  #3) The Passover month is considered the beginning of the year under Mosaic law (Exodus 12:2), which I believe is why Ussher emphasized the PASSOVER weeks in his notes for AD 30, 31, 32 and 33 as the beginning of the First, Second, Third, and the Fourth, middle year of the last 70th week of Daniel's prophecy. 

If you haven't already, you may want to dig into Ussher's notes in his "Annals" for the year 474 BC (1177), which was the start of Artaxerxes I's co-regency with his father Xerxes I.  Also a note in the year 473 BC (1184) for some more details on how to prove the date of that co-regency period.  Then check the 454 BC year notes (1228) where Ussher claims that year to be the one that launched the 70-week prophecy.

If you, like many, have a problem with not using Christ's baptism date as the beginning of His ministry when He was "anointed" (Acts 10:38), there are ways of cross-referencing the gospel accounts to prove that there was a "season" between His baptism and later on, when Christ performed His first miracle at Cana in AD 30.  Satan was said to have "left Him for a SEASON" after the wilderness temptation (Luke 4:13).  I believe this season lasted for 3 YEARS between Christ's AD 27 baptism and the AD 30 beginning of His public ministry accompanied by miracles and casting out demons.

John the Baptist did no miracles (John 10:41), in spite of his widely-held reputation as a true prophet of God (Mark 11:32).  Against that background, void of John performing anything miraculous, Christ's ministry was initiated by miracles from the very start, blazing forth in a glorious contrast that all the Jews were able to notice, from the humblest to the greatest among them.  The Daniel 9:24 prophecy only required that the "anointing of the Most Holy" take place sometime within that 70 weeks - NOT necessarily at the transition point between the 69th week and the 70th week (i.e., when "Messiah the Prince" was revealed to Daniel's people at the beginning of His public ministry in AD 30). 

Despite our differing conclusions on these points, LaSpino3, it's enjoyable to encounter another person who likes to thoroughly chew on the details.  I appreciate the exchange, regardless of whether you can agree with this or not.

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Re: 483 Years:
« Reply #4 on: Fri Oct 20, 2017 - 12:59:06 »



Offline LaSpino3

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Re: 483 Years:
« Reply #5 on: Fri Oct 20, 2017 - 13:40:49 »
3Resurrections: Let’s see if we can get on the same page. Now, I am what you call a basic guy, but certain details are important to me. The two most important are to have a close examination of words that are translated from the Hebrew and Greek into English, and 2ed the text and context.

I hope we can both agree on the start point, Oct.23, 4004 B.C. Now, for the following, my understanding is,

Jesus birth was in Oct of 4 B.C.

Jesus baptism, 30 years later Oct 26 A.D. And 3 ½ years later,

Jesus death, 30 A.D.

Now, if we were to use both the Julian calendar, and the Jewish calendar, and begin with both calendars on, let's say, Jan.1, 2000, and move forward 20 years in both, would both end on the same year, month, week and day, without calculation ever year in between, meaning this one year have a leap year, this other month had 28 days etc?

It’s the whole I’m interested in getting the answer to, not everything in between.

P.S. my friends call be Phil.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: 483 Years:
« Reply #6 on: Sat Oct 21, 2017 - 13:28:43 »
"Phil" it shall be then.  Hi Phil.  As for myself, I'm just an anonymous 2-year rookie on this site compared to the rest of the regulars. 

True, we apparently both share an appreciation for the help that word study in the original languages can bring to the discussion.  Not going to claim any personal expertise at it, but I respect those who do have it.  Ditto on the text and context being essential details, of course.

Though I salute Ussher for the mountains of labor that went into compiling his "Annals", I can't agree that the October 23, 4,004 date pinpoints creation day exactly.  He is very close, however, because I am solidly convinced the year of creation was precisely 4,000 years prior to Christ's AD 33 resurrection.  That's only 37 years shorter than Ussher's date, isn't it?

There are a couple reasons why I favor AD 33 for Christ's resurrection instead of AD 30.  The year of Christ's resurrection had to fulfill the exact date for not just ONE prophecy, but TWO of them.  As we have been discussing, Phil,  the exact middle of the last 70th week had to coincide with the year of Christ's death and resurrection.  I believe His resurrection has been given the label of the "FIRST RESURRECTION" because Christ is given the honorary title of the "FIRST-fruits" (I Cor. 15:23), the "FIRST-begotten" (Heb. 1:6), and the "FIRST-born from among the dead" (Col. 1:18).  God heavily underscores the idea that Christ was the FIRST, Preeminent One of all His children born of women, who physically die and are raised to life again to stand before Him in a resurrected, glorified body form.

If one understands that the time for the FIRST RESURRECTION was the year when Christ arose, this is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to identifying when the Revelation 20 millennium ENDED.  Revelation 20:5 makes it very clear in no uncertain terms that the millennium ENDED with the event of the FIRST RESURRECTION (i.e., that of Christ the First-fruits and the "remnant" - loipoi - that rose along with Him - the Matthew 27:52-53 saints). 

So, we not only have to connect Christ's resurrection with the proper point of time in Daniel's last, 70th week, we also have to connect that same year for Christ's resurrection with the year that completed the literal thousand-year period, ENDING with Christ's resurrection.  That "millennium" label applied to the literal thousand years of a physical temple worship system set up at its beginning by God when the foundation stone of Solomon's temple was laid down.  God designed this era of physical temple worship to last only until His Son laid Himself down as the "foundation stone" of the true, SPIRITUAL TEMPLE, made of LIVING STONES (i.e., believing saints - I Peter 2:5).

AFTER Christ and the FIRST RESURRECTION, the physical temple had become a fulfilled type, and its physical structure was no longer needed - the spiritual reality it had prefigured had arrived, along with the New Covenant in Christ's blood.  Those who kept clinging to the old physical structure were disregarding Christ as the antitype fulfillment.  Because many continued to make essentially an idol out of the physical temple, God had to destroy it down to the last stone.  He will not allow another physical temple to rise again.

I have done some heavy research into the date for the founding of Solomon's temple, just to be sure that it was started exactly a literal thousand years before Jesus' resurrection, and I found dates that do align with this.  There are a couple sources that agree with either a 968 BC or a 967 BC date for when the foundation stone was laid down for Solomon's temple.  Ussher is off by a bit for this date, since he claims a 1012 BC date when construction started on Solomon's temple.  The dates for the literal 1,000-year millennium of Revelation 20 I believe to be those 968/967 BC - AD 33 dates, because AD 33 also matches with the middle year for Daniel's last, 70th week.  The year AD 30 for Christ's resurrection doesn't match with the year the literal 1,000-year millennium ended, so that eliminates that particular date for me.

In other words, if the year for the END of the millennium period matches also with that MIDDLE year of Daniel's 70th week, you have found the correct year for both prophecies.  The one critical factor that determines the right year for both prophecies depends entirely on whether or not you recognize Jesus Christ's resurrection as the FIRST RESURRECTION of Revelation 20:5.  It's that basic.  Miss that one fact, and the entire prophetic calendar becomes confused.  The RESURRECTED JESUS CHRIST and the date He arose is the central focus that ALL prophecy is connected to, in one way or another.  It is most fitting that He should have the preeminence, because "God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name that is above every name..." (Phil. 2:9).


Offline LaSpino3

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Re: 483 Years:
« Reply #7 on: Sat Oct 21, 2017 - 19:43:23 »
3 Resurrections:
the problem with 33 A.D. follows

1. if Jesus was born in 4 B.C. then,

2. because his baptized was in 26 A.D. at the age of 30, Luke 3: 22-23, "The Holy Ghost descended in bodily shape like a dove ---- And Jesus himself began (his ministry) about thirty years of age, ---."  Then 4 B.C. + 30 brings us to 26 A.D. Now if what you claim 33 to be his crucifixion, that his earthly ministry would have been 7 years and not 3 1/2.

3. Stephen was killed in 34 A.D. three years after Jesus was crucified, that means instead of being killed 3 years after Jesus death it was one year which is absolutely incorrect.

4. Paul was converted just after Stephen was murdered in 34 A.D. but according to you it was only 1 year after the crucifixion.

Peter had his vision of the sheet, some 21 years after the crucifixion when he met with Paul in Jerusalem. this is when Peter was informed and understood the Gentiles had received the Holy Spirit, and unlike the Jews were not under law, but under grace. This event happened 11 years after Jesus died, but according to 33 it would only be 8 years which would be incorrect according to the chronology of Paul's ministry and travels.

Now as far as the Temple etc., the last part of your post, were to far apart for the subject to be discussed any further.

Phil

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Re: 483 Years:
« Reply #8 on: Mon Oct 23, 2017 - 23:31:11 »
Phil,   I have already touched a bit in comment #4 on the 3-year gap between Christ's baptism in AD 27 and the beginning year of His miraculous public ministry.  No, I don't believe Christ's ministry lasted a total of 7 years from AD 27 - AD 33.  Remember, when Christ was baptized, Mark 1:12 says that the Spirit IMMEDIATELY drove Him into the wilderness to be tempted of Satan for those 40 days.  Once that 40-day temptation was over, it says that Satan "left Him for a SEASON" (Luke 4:13).  This "SEASON" Ussher dated as lasting about 3 years, while John the Baptist was still on the scene, before Christ began His public ministry in AD 30 of performing miracles, healings, casting out unclean spirits, etc. 

It isn't necessary that anointing someone for an office means that they are instantly installed into that office.  Think of the similarity to our own election process, when the official inauguration takes place some time later after someone is elected for office.  Think of David, anointed as Israel's king by Samuel as a very young man, who then patiently waited quite a length of time before the throne was actually his after Saul's death.  Think of Paul, anointed by Ananias at his conversion, but who afterward went immediately into Arabia (Galatians 1:15-18) for some training by God for 3 YEARS (similar to Christ) before he ever went to Jerusalem to meet the apostles.  It was then that he received his marching orders from God to go to the Gentiles during that temple vision (Acts 22:21). 

Also, the pattern for an overseer entering the ministry is first of all to go through a period of examination and "proving" (I Tim. 3:10) before they are entrusted with becoming that overseer of the flock.  "...Not a novice...", as Paul warned Timothy (I Timothy 3:6).  Christ also fulfilled this same type of "novitiate" period of testing, examination, and proving over a 3-year "season" before He said "the time is fulfilled", (Mark 1:15 - in AD 30) at the beginning of that first year of His 3 1/2 years of public ministry. 

In the verse you have brought up (Luke 3:23), it doesn't say that Christ began His ministry about 30 years of age: it says that "He began TO BE about thirty years of age" at His baptism, which was in the year AD 27.  Three years later, in AD 30 after His "novitiate" period of testing was over, He began His full public ministry of miraculous activity that lasted those  3 1/2 years until AD 33 when He was crucified.  These are all Ussher's conclusions and dates, and I agree with them, since they all interlock perfectly with the date for the millennium which ended at the "First Resurrection" of Christ in AD 33.

Ussher also lists AD 33 as the date for Stephen's martyrdom and the persecution of the church that sprang up that very day, including Paul's oppression of the church.  The reason I agree with Ussher's dates for these events is due to the Revelation 12:13-17 passage.  In that context, the dragon who has just been cast out of heaven (as Satan was at Christ's ascension in AD 33) starts a persecution of the woman (representing the New Covenant church based in Jerusalem).  This woman, the young Jerusalem church, "is nourished for a time, and times, and a half a time " (the 3 1/2 remaining years of confirming the New Covenant until the end of Daniel's 70th week).  The flood waters, cast out of the serpent's mouth in an attempt to get rid of the woman, were those first persecuting years against the Jerusalem church, from Stephen's martyrdom date of AD 33 onward (including Paul's initial attacks against the church). 

Once Paul was converted, he went to Arabia for about 3 years of training for his ministry to the Gentiles.  It was then that those floodwaters of the dragon against the woman were "swallowed up" by the year AD 37 - the end of Daniel's 490 years of prophecy devoted to Daniel's people.  That was the year when the gospel which had FIRST presented the New Covenant to those in Jerusalem - from AD 30 until AD 37 - switched its main evangelistic emphasis over to the Gentile world instead, with Paul the apostle leading the way as a "herald" of the good news to the Gentiles (I Timothy 2:7). 

Even the description that Paul gave of himself to Timothy in I Timothy 1:15-16 is an indication that his God-commissioned ministry to the Gentiles was positioned at the very end of the 490-year prophetic period devoted to Daniel's people.  Paul calls himself the "FIRST sinner" (protos - NOT the "worst" sinner).  Paul would be the "pattern" for all the Gentile believers who were about to follow after his own conversion.  God would use Paul as the "FIRST" notorious example of His incredible "longsuffering" to the group of Gentile sinners who had formerly been God's enemies, aliens to the gospel, as Paul had once been Christ's enemy when he was persecuting the church. 

The term calling Paul the "FIRST sinner" is used to show the dividing line between the end of the last, 70th week of "confirming the covenant with many of Daniel's people, and the beginning of the massive, successful evangelism concentrated on the Gentiles, the "other sheep" which Christ spoke of in John 10:16: "And OTHER SHEEP I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be ONE FOLD, and ONE SHEPHERD."  This underscores the fact that any children of faith with Jewish nationality were saved by grace also (not the law), even as the Gentiles were (Acts 15:11), which actually had been true ever since righteous Abel was killed.  That was the "mystery of God" that Paul spoke of in Ephesians 3:3-9 and Colossians 1:27 -  a reality that had been hidden for many ages. 

The mystery of God has ALWAYS been "Christ IN YOU, the hope of glory".  Not Christ in my nation, or Christ in my genetic family line, or even Christ in my knowledge.  Christ must inhabit a person, or the prospect of future glory is impossible.  It sounds as if you are missing the point of the mystery, Phil.   
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 09, 2018 - 21:39:40 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: 483 Years:
« Reply #9 on: Tue Oct 24, 2017 - 08:16:12 »
3 Resurrection
I'm going to end this conversation, nothing further to be gained.

Phil