All the world wondered after the beast!

[RB]

Revelation 13:3~"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

Revelation 13:12~"And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed."

Revelation 17:8~"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

Would folks give their understanding concerning the beast that was, and is not, and yet is, that the whole earth will worship whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world?

I'll get this started: The beast of Revelation has always been in this world, he's part of the seven kingdoms that have ruled in this world, this beast of Revelation will be the EIGHT and final kingdom. This beast was wounded, yet his wound will be healed during Revelation's little season/short space.

Revelation 17:10,11~"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

Any thoughts anyone?

[RB]

Let us consider the scarlet-colored beast of Revelation 13~ verses 3; 7-15.

Revelation 17:7-14 ~"And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest WAS, and IS NOT; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that WAS, and IS NOT, and YET IS. And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a SHORT SPACE.  And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb. and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

Verse nine said: "And here is the mind which hath wisdom."
 
Anyone who has been given wisdom by the ALL WISE GOD, should be able to follow John's vision that the angel shewed him.

The angel said: "The seven heads ARE seven mountains, ON WHICH the woman SITTETH." verse 9

The reason why I KNOW that the woman is NOT the Roman Catholic church, as many believe is because of what this verse PLAINLY said:

The seven heads ARE MOUNTAINS, on which the woman (whore) SITTETH. Verse 15 said PLAINLY: "And he saith unto me, the WATERS (waters here, mountains in verse 9) which thou saweth, (verse 1) where the whore sitteth are peoples, and multitudes, and nations and tongues."

Peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues are KINGDOMS of this world; the words mountains and kingdom are used interchangeably in the scriptures.

Daniel 2:35 ~"Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a GREAT MOUNTAIN, (KINGDOM) and filled the earth."

Filled the earth with peoples, multitudes, and nations; which makes up a GREAT MOUNTAIN.

But there is more; verse 10 tells us that the seven mountains ARE SEVEN KINGS! "And there are seven kings:" Though Rome may be on seven hills and some try to make this whore be only the Roman Catholic church, by that fact; they are NOT showing wisdom by NOT staying with the flow of the verses.

Verse ten said: "And there are seven kings: five are fallen.... Start from the book of Genesis to Revelation and see if you can find "SEVEN KINGS/KINGDOMS that ruled this world for a certain period of time; We can.................................

In Genesis it was Egypt; in the books of the kings of Israel, it was an Assyrian empire, and next, the Babylonian empire; next in Daniel we have Medes/Persian then Greece, and into the Gospels we have the empire of Rome.

So five are fallen, which were the first five mentioned in the order.  "And one IS" would be the Roman empire that was in power at the time these words were spoken to the apostle John.  "And the other not yet come;" would be the time the devil is loose from the bottomless pit (another way of saying, when he can use his power without God restraining him as he (God) has during the time the church is being built) and he will RULE the world with full wrath and hatred and build him a paradise on earth, with men giving their devotion and strength unto the beast. The beast IS Babylon and Babylon is the beast, and the devil is king of the beast and Babylon.

"when he cometh, he must continue a SHORT SPACE." or a little season. And then he was cast in the lake of fire. Or go into perdition verses 8 and 11.
 
"And the beast that was (had great power in the Old Testament) and is not (lost much of his power at the cross-Revelation 12) even he is the eight (his last pitch to overthrow God, and Jesus Christ and his people during the little season) and is of the seven (he was the god of those evil kingdoms that will be turned into the chaff of the summer threshingfloors) and goeth into perdition.” (he shall become as one of them!)

"All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also became weak as we? art thou become like unto us?" Isaiah 14:11 YES HE WILL!

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast" verse 12

These ten kings (ten a number for totality) are the nations on the earth when the little season starts at the time of the end. They will have power for a short time! One hour, a little season. They will give their mind and strength to the devil during this time and to the building up of BABYLON, THE GREAT. Even in the last two hundred years, THIS WORLD has made a MAJOR change; the world in many parts of it looks like a resort that our forefathers could only imagine in their wildest imaginations. There are places of entertainment everywhere; and every sort of fleshly pleasure you can think of is here in MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT CITY for all WHO WILL FALL DOWN AND WORSHIP THE BEAST! And we will add, most people of the nations of Babylon are MAD about these idols found therein. The truth is: that they want more; and we will add, that they are sacrificing their children to these dumb idols is plain to all who have the mind of true wisdom.

These kings will DESTROY the religious PART OF BABYLON just before this world comes to an end! There will be a very short space of time when this world will be free of Religion as we know it. God's saints will be protected, Revelation 12:16-17 But it will be a time of TROUBLE, which the world has never seen, nor will see. Read Revelation 17:13-15. She shall be destroyed JUST AS JERUSALEM was by Nebuchadnezzar of old. There is NO WAY to explain those three verses than the way we did and keep the scriptural sense that the Holy Ghost intended.

Next, let us see how the world will wondered after the beast~I believe this is fulfilled in two ways,  Later.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

But there is more; verse 10 tells us that the seven mountains ARE SEVEN KINGS!

I don't think that's right.

The angel first explains that the heads in the vision are mountains (verse 9).  It would be strange if the mountains were then also symbolic.  You don't interpret one symbol with another symbol, that's just confusing.  I think we can just trust what the angel said.  The seven symbolic heads are seven literal mountains.

The seven kings are a separate thing.  They are part of the interpretation of the woman; not the beast she's riding.

Speaking of which, I don't believe you've identified the woman here, other than to say that she isn't Rome.  Who is the woman?

Jarrod

[RB]

I don't think that's right.

It's not what we think, but what can we prove by using Scriptures, that would allow God's word to be its own interrupter, and that would allow a perfect flow of that particular truth throughout the scriptures.

Genesis 40:8~"And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you."

Yes, biblical interpretations do indeed belong unto God, and He gives it to whomsoever He will~generally, those who trust him and not what others teach.

The angel first explains that the heads in the vision are mountains (verse 9)

I agreed~yet, mountains and kingdoms are, as I said above used interchangeably in the scriptures, and gave you and others who may read these posts Daniel 2:35 to prove this.

You don't interpret one symbol with another symbol, that's just confusing. 

Jarrod, not when the two are used interchangeably within the scriptures, it truly helps.

The seven kings are a separate thing

Jarrod, all kingdoms have kings, you cannot separate the two! And yes, they are riding the beast, or, the antichristian kingdom of the FINAL kingdom that shall be on the earth at the time of Christ's return, they received their power from THE BEAST, or, the spirit of Satan, who opposes and hates God, his people, whom he will make war with during the end of the little season.

Speaking of which, I don't believe you've identified the woman here, other than to say that she isn't Rome.  Who is the woman?

Give me time, maybe in my next post.

[RB]

                                                                          All the world wondered after the beast!

How do we see this being fulfilled in our day? Let me give the readers my take on this. Revelation 17:1....Tells us plainly that what is recorded in this chapter is dealing with the JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT WHORE...which is PART OF Mystery, Babylon the great~but only part of.

God, when he judges always begins with the professing people of God, and then he will judge ALL. We clearly see this is Revelation 17 (the woman who is the apostate church) and then the world in Revelation 18. This agrees with what Peter taught:

1st Peter 4:17~"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The angel said that this whore SITTETH upon MANY WATERS. Verse 15, tells us: "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, ARE peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

This whore had committed fornication with people FROM EVERY NATION under the heavens. She had not committed fornication with every person from every nation, but with people FROM every nation. Many were virgins in these nations under heaven.

"These are they which were NOT defiled with women; (the world and the whore) for they ARE VIRGINS.(spiritual virgins) These follow the Lamb withersoever he goeth, THESE WERE REDEEMED FROM AMONG MEN, (so these are ALL of the redeemed) being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb." Revelation 14:4

Verse 2..."With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication.." The kings of the earth rolls the red carpet...

(NOT because they love her, but it is just good politics to do so, and for no other reason)

...out for this whore and take counsel from her and embrace her as their own. They believe her lies and she believes their lies. Remember Daniel 11:27?

She does not have the same spirit as John the Baptist: "But Herod the tetrarch being reproved by him for Herodias his brother Philip's wife, and for all the evils which Herod had done." Luke 3:19

We all know John the Baptist would not be invited to a prayer breakfast in Washington D.C., or to be a special guest on some TV network; those spotlights are reserved for the false prophets of Babylon, and there are many of them from the many different sects of Babylon.

They have their "astrologers, stargazers, and monthly prognosticators, along with the multitudes of false prophets;" (Isaiah 13:10-13) That CAN NOT save them from the things that SHALL come upon them!

"....the inhabitants of the earth have been made DRUNK with the wine of her fornication." Not only has she committed fornication with the kings of the earth, through her LOVE OF POWER and the ATTENTION it brings with it, by fornicating with the powers that be; she has made the world (all whose names were not written in the Lamb's book of life from the beginning of the world) DRUNK with her promise of peace and life and liberty, while SHE and THEY are still living in their sins! Read 1st Kings 22:1-40; 2nd Peter 2 and the book of Jude.

Verse 3..."So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of the names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

Verse 4-5.."And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." Please consider a few points:

The woman in Revelation 17:4, sits upon the beast, or was carried by the beast, verse 7. (which we will talk about shortly) The woman of Revelation 12:13 was persecuted by the devil/dragon. BOTH lived IN Babylon, one OF Babylon, one persecuted BY Babylon's king and his people. This woman of Revelation 17 was DRUNKEN with the BLOOD of SAINTS (Revelation 17:6) and the martyrs of Jesus that lived there but refused to be PART OF THEM. These godly saints TORMENTED them that lived in Babylon, by their godly life and by the words that proceedeth out of their mouth. Revelation 11:5,10

Revelation 12:17~"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to MAKE WAR with the remnant of her seed, which KEEP the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

ONE of the tools that the devil uses to make war with the saints is his great whore, called Mystery, Babylon the great. This whore HAS other FAMILY MEMBERS that are NOT religious, that we will see later! In Revelation 18.

This woman that is called Mystery, Babylon the great is only PART of Babylon that GREAT CITY that the devil has built. It is only a small part of the whole. Just like the White House is not Washington, D.C., but part of that which makes up Washington, D.C. The major part of Babylon is found in Revelation 18.

This great whore is the RELIGIOUS part of this great city called Babylon. The devil has many of his children IN RELIGION to better war against the saints and the God of heaven. He has a great multitude outside of religion, and that number WILL increase at the very end, as we will see.

The devil's whore is very seductive with her wealth and social standing in Babylon.
 
The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls and she has a golden cup in her hand. Revelation 17:4
 
I am not convinced that these things should be taken literally; why should we, when we KNOW that the beast, the woman, and the waters are NOT literal? By literal I mean: monetary wealth; Some may be, many may not be.

This great whore deceived her followers (2nd Cor. 11:12-14) by the art of her seductions and sorceries and lies to allure her VICTIMS, and VICTIMS they ARE!

What she had and what she offered to her followers in comparison to those who kept the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, was like: gold, precious stones, and pearls to wood, hay, and stubble, to those who saw her and heard her. But those who keep the commandments of God ARE KEPT FROM this whore;
 
"That they (God's commandments) may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth with her words." Proverbs 7:5

This whore has the beautiful temples; with multitudes of followers, BUT, with no commitments; Christianity is only a part of their life, instead of ALL of their life; I might need to add this: RELIGION might be part of their whole life for many of them; BUT, they have set the commandments of God aside for their OWN traditions; and they have corrupted the HOLY SCRIPTURES by refusing to preach what the Bible actually says, and have put their opinions/commandments in the place of THUS SAITH THE LORD.(2nd Thessalonians 2:4)

As a whole they refuse to EARNESTLY CONTEND with the wicked, and speak out against those saints that do contend for the truth. They allow the wicked to set the standard for what is acceptable and what is not.  There is no difference between them and the world; if there is any difference, it is very little. On and on we could go. You can add to the list just as easily as I could.

All natural men are impressed with a religion like this. Most men are willing to accept a religion that requires NOTHING from them, but their presence occasionally and their deep pockets often, and the more the better. What natural man would not LOVE a religion like this whore offers; knowing that he can have eternal life AND live according to his own fleshly desire, without committing his life totally to the word of God?

They ALLURE through the LUST of the FLESH with such things. 2nd Peter 2; and Jude.

She has a GOLDEN CUP in her hand. WHO would not LOVE to drink from this cup? THIS CUP is one of the enticements that she uses on her followers. Men of this world think they are special if someone offers them a drink from such a cup.

What is within this cup reveals that she is a WHORE with every intention to destroy those who drink thereof!  "......having a golden cup in her hand FULL of ABOMINATIONS and FILTHINESS of her fornication." Revelation 17:4

This great whore does not only have a few abominations, but she is FULL of them, along with the filthiness of her fornication. These abominations that she is full of, will be the cause of her being made DESOLATE, by the kings of the earth; as they are being used by God, as his servants. (verse 16)

To give the sum of this I will say~the woman is the FALSE CHURCHES in Mystery Babylon, not just, the RCC; EOC; Baptist, and the host of thousands more.

Question..... how does the world wonder after the beast? In just about every house, mud huts throughout this world folks have a TV, and now you can be part of them so easily by being a "media church member"~(sending your money every week is truly all they are after, while they build up an Empire of wealth for themselves!) It truly can be said today that the WORLD IS WONDERING after the beast~ in Revelation 17, its religion! I have heard many times Victory channel (Kenneth Copeland) and SBN (Jimmy Swaggart's) boasting about how many millions of homes they are NOW IN ~there's hardly a place on this earth they are not in~it can be said that the world is wondering after the beast~in this case their religion! These false prophets have offices all throughout this world~rellgion is a big-time business for these folks.

It was too hard to break this down into two posts. The next one should not be as long. RB

[Amo]

CHAPTER 11
BABYLON THE DESTROYING MOUNTAIN

Jer 51:24 And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the LORD. 25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

While the above prophecy is certainly in relation to Babylon of old or the old covenant if you will, it just as certainly reaches down to the end of time and spiritual or new covenant Babylon as well. As the prophecy includes Babylon’s effect as a destroying mountain upon all the earth. Which the book of Revelation chapters seventeen and eighteen in particular, expound upon in greater detail for this new covenant era. Revealing the ruin of the entire world as its kings and nations become increasingly involved and influenced by “the wine of the wrath of her fornication”(Rev 18:3), once again.

Babylon of old herself is the first beast, mountain, or king of the seven headed beast which spiritual Babylon of the new covenant rides upon.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Who is this seven headed beast upon which Babylon sits, but the first beast of Revelation thirteen and this new covenant era. Which beast is connected to the four beasts of old covenant prophecy itself, described in the book of Daniel, having different parts from them all. Going back to the original Babylon of old in consecutive order from the time the prophecy is given.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The ten horns being from the fourth and final beast of Daniel 7:7. The beast itself being like a leopard, as the third beast of Daniel 7:6 was also. Having the feet of a bear, which the second beast described in Daniel 7:5 was. And finally having the mouth of a lion which the first beast of Daniel 7:4 was. Which beast was none other than Babylon of old itself. The first beast, mountain, or king of the prophecy of Revelation 17 which we are examining presently in relation to Babylon the Great of the new covenant era. The details of the prophecies themselves making the connections between all seven of these beasts, kings, and or mountains.

And where does this first beast of Revelation 13 which connects these old covenant beasts of prophecy with the new covenant beasts of the book of Revelation, get its power, seat, and authority from, according to verse two? It gets it from the dragon himself. And who is the dragon, but the devil himself, that old serpent who deceives the entire world.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

And how many heads does the dragon who deceives the entire world have, but seven. Which are in fact the seven heads of the beast to whom he gives his power, seat, and authority.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 22 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 23 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 24 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

And what are the seven heads of the dragon, but the seven heads of the beast to whom he gives his power, seat, and authority. The seven consecutive kings, mountains, or beasts of biblical prophecy which the devil controls and raises up in defiance of the God of heaven. Which also persecute those in this world who are of the kingdom of God.

We know from the book of Daniel that these beasts are kings or kingdoms through which Satan defies God’s kingdom and wars with the people of God’s kingdom on this earth (Dan 7:17&23). And what are the mountains, or how do we know the mountains are these same beasts or kingdoms as well? We know from the opening verse of this chapter (Jer 51:24&25), that God referred to Babylon as a destroying mountain. We also know from the following verses that Satan was kicked out of the “mountain” or kingdom of God.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Satan was not just of the kingdom of God, but was upon the holy mountain of God, that is in God’s very presence and among the leadership of His kingdom. God cast him out of His holy mountain and or kingdom as profane. The seven mountains, beasts, kings or kingdoms, of the prophecies of the books of Daniel and the Revelation are the seven heads of the dragon, or satan. They are the seven beasts of biblical prophecy or seven headed beast of biblical prophecy, and the seven hills or mountains upon which mystical Babylon sits. They are the devil’s counterfeit and or rival mountains or kingdoms to God’s in this world. Thus does BABYLON THE GREAT sit upon the seven hills or mountains, which are the seat of Satan’s power and authority in rebellion against God in this world. The Devil gives these beasts their power, seat, and authority. And BABYLON THE GREAT sits upon these mountains as well. Deriving her power and authority from him as well.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10  And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

These mountains are not the hills upon which literal Rome of this world sits as many have supposed in the past. They are rather the mountains, heads, and or kingdoms of the evil one raised in defiance of the living God. They are the seat of the evil one’s authority, and the religious and political leaders which sit upon those seats are the leaders of Satan’s counterfeit mountains, kingdoms, or heads. They compose the heads of the beasts, and lead the world and their constituents unto destruction. Destruction by fire. Therefore will the evil one and his mountains be burned.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Jer 51:24 And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the LORD. 25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

Not only do the satanic practices and policies of Babylon and the beasts she rides bring suffering, misery, woe, and destruction upon humanity during their occupation, but they end in complete destruction by fire. We are now observing in this nation and world the misery and woe following a turning away from the power and influence of God’s word, unto the power and influence of BABYLON THE GREAT, and one of the beasts she rides. All of which is leading to the final destruction of all powers and peoples existing in defiance of God, by fire.

Denying, refusing, and or being ignorant of the lessons learned from history concerning her abusive and destructive leadership in the past, the world is ever increasingly placing themselves under the tyrannical leadership and control of BABYLON THE GREAT once again. The dark ages of the past spawned by the Church of Rome, are swiftly approaching and encroaching again. Her illicit and adulterous relations with the rich and powerful of the earth will and are producing this same effect upon humanity again, unto final destruction. Babylon is without question, a destroying mountain.

God used Babylon of old as a tool and destroying weapon of judgement upon His repeatedly wayward people and surrounding nations during the old covenant era (Jer 21&25). Eventually destroying Babylon as well in judgment, but only after He had revealed Himself to the Babylonians as well. Converting their king through the remnant of Israel who survived within his kingdom after he conquered them in judgment from God. Judgment came upon them when knowing such they used the instruments from Israel’s temple and worship of the true God, to worship their false God’s. More about this later.

In any case, the spiritual or temporal policies and practice of Babylonian rule, which is itself satanic rule, are ruin and desolation. This is “the wine of the wrath of her fornication”, which all the nations of this earth will and are ever increasingly drinking as the end approaches. The misery and woe her practice and policies bring upon humanity are in fact judgment from God upon us, for turning from His law and proved righteous leadership, unto the satanically inspired leadership she enthrones herself upon. The end of which is destruction even upon her own self and all who submit to her. She is truly a destroying mountain, in contrast to God’s holy mountain and leadership which we will examine in the next chapter.

While there are other nations which stand forth in scripture with enduring lessons of spiritual nature and application concerning the results of abandoning God’s rule in favor of humanities, Babylon holds the place of prominence above them all. She was the power used by God in judgment to end the nation and religion of His own design and purpose by way of revelation in this world, due to apostasy. The lessons to be learned since that time and unto future generations in these judgments and restorations of the past, are crucial to properly understanding the conflicts and resolutions God Himself has determined until the end. Therefore has BABYLON THE GREAT, been brought forth again in a spiritual manner for these new covenant era lessons unto the end.

God Himself began these prophecies concerning Babylon and Israel through dreams he gave to Nebuchadnezzar, and interpretation and visions he gave to the Hebrew captives Daniel and his companions, concerning the same unto the end. The books of Daniel and the Revelation are God’s instruments of prophetic instruction for his people unto the end. With the help and aid of other scripture as well of course, by way of historical detail, and symbolic interpretation. Babylon is the head of the four metals of the image of Nebuchadnezzars dream in chapter two, and the first beast of the four revealed in chapter seven. These are the first four of the seven kingdoms, beasts, or heads of biblical prophecy revealed in Revelation chapter seventeen. The prophetic kingdoms, beasts, or mountains of the old covenant era if you will.

These are followed in the new covenant by the evil one’s counterfeit kingdoms of this era. In his attempt to copy and supplant God’s universal spiritual kingdom and church on earth, established in and by Christ Jesus our Lord. All these new covenant counterfeit kingdoms, beasts, or mountains, are directly connected to spiritual Babylon of the new covenant era. The Devil’s counterfeit’s of Christ’s spiritual kingdom until He returns again to set up His literal kingdom forever. Thus does and is the devil using his queen as it were, to set up an opposing kingdom of unified humanity in defiance of the living God. We will end this chapter by quoting from the book of Daniel the second chapter, where it all began, before examining the mountain of God in the next chapter.

Dan 2:26 The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof? 27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king; 28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these; 29 As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass. 30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart 31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. 32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. 34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. 36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. 37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. 39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

[RB]

Babylon of old herself is the first beast, mountain, or king of the seven headed beast which spiritual Babylon of the new covenant rides upon.

Amo, I do not mind you posting, and actually desire it, but do not disrupt the topic under consideration UNTIL I at least finish answering the question in what manner is all the WORLD wondering after the beast.

All you have done with your post is hindering the truth from coming out~and that means you are being used not of God but of the Evil one~just like Peter did in Matthew 16:23!  So, I will post one more post and then come back and answer your post which all you are doing is posting Ellen G. White's thoughts/teachings!

Revelation seventeen is addressing FALSE RELIGION, which includes ALL of them, not just Rome, and TRULY Rome only deceives mostly silly women, while religion as a whole deceives everyone, EXCEPT the very elect. Latter-day religion will be so convincing that ONLY the very elect will escape.

Matthew 24:21,22~"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Saved is NOT speaking of our physical bodies, but has reference to being saved KNOWING THE TRUTH! The great tribulation has reference to spiritual persecution of standing for the truth and being rejected for doing so. The whole world will wonder after the beast in its final attempt to overthrow God and truth, but as we well know, they shall fail miserably and go into perdition.

I will answer your confused post after I make one more post. 

[Amo]

Amo, I do not mind you posting, and actually desire it, but do not disrupt the topic under consideration UNTIL I at least finish answering the question in what manner is all the WORLD wondering after the beast.

All you have done with your post is hindering the truth from coming out~and that means you are being used not of God but of the Evil one~just like Peter did in Matthew 16:23!  So, I will post one more post and then come back and answer your post which all you are doing is posting Ellen G. White's thoughts/teachings!

Revelation seventeen is addressing FALSE RELIGION, which includes ALL of them, not just Rome, and TRULY Rome only deceives mostly silly women, while religion as a whole deceives everyone, EXCEPT the very elect. Latter-day religion will be so convincing that ONLY the very elect will escape. Saved is NOT speaking of our physical bodies, but has reference to being saved KNOWING THE TRUTH! The great tribulation has reference to spiritual persecution of standing for the truth and being rejected for doing so. The whole world will wonder after the beast in its final attempt to overthrow God and truth, but as we well know, they shall fail miserably and go into perdition.

I will answer your confused post after I make one more post.

That's actually funny. The part about EGW is funny as well. You often say this, as if you know or have read what she has written. Have you? Why don't you show me where I am repeating her? Why do you ignore all those before her, who have said what she did as well, as though she invented it? Perhaps you do not know of them or what they said either. Is that it?

[RB]

That's actually funny. The part about EGW is funny as well. You often say this, as if you know or have read what she has written. Have you? Why don't you show me where I am repeating her? Why do you ignore all those before her, who have said what she did as well, as though she invented it? Perhaps you do not know of them or what they said either. Is that it?

Amo, I do know what the reformers taught, much of which she and the SDA reject. What they do accept is their teachings on 2nd Thess. 2 concerning the man of sin, other than that, they are worlds apart on most teachings/doctrines.  I will also note, that both the godly reformers and the SDA teachings on Thess. 2 are not biblical since both limited the man of sin to the Popes of RCC, when they leave out most of the false prophets and professors which ARE included in the phrase "man OF sin".  Another subject for another day.

Also, let it be noted the reformers never wrote on Revelation, if they did, I can not recall ever reading any commentary written by them on Revelation.

So, the SDA teachings mainly from Helen G. White are her own concerning the book of Revelation 17, and 18, and those teachings were written three hundred years after the reformation period and are well documented for all to read.

I have read what she has written..... very little, enough to know she's a false prophetess?

While I refuse to judge every SDA as lost, I do reject their own system as a system of false teachings, including their teachings on the book of Revelation overall considered.

[RB]

Revelation 17:8~"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

The beast is the antichrist kingdoms of this world called..... Mystery Babylon the great. The last form of this beast will be the eight and final kingdom of Babylon. The likes the previous seven were no comparison to the final form of the beast. They that dwell on the earth during its final form will wonder after its seemingly glorious glory and the things it will offer its worshippers.

Revelation seventeen addresses its religion where the man of sin sits and rules therein. The man of sin is not one man, but all who live contrary to the teachings and commandments of God. The phrase man of sin is just as it states: man of sin...man of sin, any and all men/women who profess to be the true worshippers of God, yet reject the doctrines and commandments of God, and go about teachings their own doctrines and commandment, much like the Pharisees did during the days of Christ. They too were men of sin who took over the temple worship of God during Christ's days and put out all who would not submit to their teachings, including Christ himself!

In Revelation eighteen we see another group of men who wonder after the beast, yet outside of its religion! Bear with me as we look into Revelation 18, totally different from chapter 17.

The FALL of Babylon in this chapter is certain. This is seen in the perfect tense of the words in verse two. "Babylon the great IS fallen, IS fallen" the words from the angel will reveal the desolation that comes upon Babylon as we read on.

Verse 2.."For all nations have drunk of the wine of the WRATH of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her"

JUST AS they both did with the great whore of Babylon, so have they done with THIS BABYLON as well, but in a totally different way. But as we read on, we will see clearly that there are many things in this PART OF BABYLON that could NOT be applied to what was said of the great whore of Mystery, Babylon the great.

"And the MERCHANTS of the EARTH are waxed RICH through the ABUNDANCE of her DELICACIES." the last part of verse 3

Here is a GOLDEN CUP that has DELICACIES in it, that in OUR FLESH we are STRONGLY TEMPTED to drink of, and the temptations are POWERFUL to our fallen flesh, the old man!

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THAT GREAT CITY, has a golden cup for you to drink of; many have drunk from both the whore's cup AND the WORLD's golden cup. A child of God MUST avoid BOTH! The devil is the father of both! Whoever drinks of either, and CONTINUES to do so and DOES NOT REPENT, WILL be partakers of their evil sins; Or the commands given in Revelation 18:4, are USELESS! It would be like a mother telling her child, if you do not stop what you are doing, then I am going to punish you, when she has no intentions of doing so. When God gives a warning, we had better heed that warning or He WILL do as he said He would.  God’s elect hears and follows. Not perfectly, but their OVERALL life is known to be faithful in all things. 

Revelation 18:4 .....CHILD OF GOD, THIS CALL IS FOR YOU! AND IT IS "NOT" A CALL TO COME OUT OF FALSE RELIGION! IT IS MUCH MORE SERIOUS AND HARDER TO DO!

18:4~"And I heard another voice from heaven saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

I know that the call to "come out of her" has nothing to do with false religion because of the contents of Revelation 18. False Religion was in Revelation 17; The WORLD SYSTEM and the THINGS THEREIN that the devil is god of, is in Revelation 18. As one reads through this chapter, it should become easy to see; especially to the mind which hath the wisdom of God given to him.

 Consider: The call to come out of her my people is the very SAME warning and call we hear throughout the holy scriptures.

1st John 2:15-17~ "Love NOT THE WORLD, neither the things that are in the world. IF any man love the world, the love of the father IS NOT in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, (Mystery Babylon has many things in her golden cup) and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, IS NOT of the father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, (you will see in it Revelation 18) and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."

2nd Corinthians 6:17-18~Wherefore COME OUT from AMONG THEM, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

"We, as Christians cannot literally separate ourselves from Babylon, no more than could Daniel and his friends. But, we can and must not follow their gods nor bow down to them, nor delight in their dainties, nor seek our happiness therein. We MUST be as Daniel was In Babylon of old.

    Daniel 6:5,10 "Then said these men, We shall not find any occasion against this Daniel, except we find it against him concerning the LAW OF HIS GOD.................Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber TOWARD JERUSALEM, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, AS HE DID AFORETIME."

False religion is NOT the MAIN temptation for God’s children, (yes, we can fall into some of their false teachings and hinder our peace and leave us weak before our enemies and unfruitful) but this world system is a greater source of temptation in many more ways than most would ever believe. The main message about the whore and God's saints in Revelation 17 is that she killed them, because they were ENEMIES!

So the devil has another part of Babylon that he labors to corrupt the Israel OF God with. It is the SAME way that Balaam taught Balak to make use of the cunning art of deception in order to ensnare and destroy Israel of old. Numbers 31:16; Jude 11; Revelation 2:14; Revelation 18:5-10.... "For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." She thinks that there is NO god in the heaven, and she surely does not believe that he knows; BUT he will THRUST IN HIS SICKLE AND REAP.  Revelation 14:14-20!

"Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, DEATH, and MOURNING, and FAMINE; and she shall be UTTERLY BURNED WITH FIRE: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her." See 2nd Peter 3:7-10

We believe by verses 9 and 10 that God will FIRST destroy the world as we know it and then cast the wicked into the lake of fire. The wicked will SEE with their eyes the GREAT BABYLON that caused them to say "I sit a QUEEN, and am no widow,( she had a great company of followers) and shall see NO sorrow OH, was she deceived by the old serpent, that deceived our mother Eve. She shall receive SO MUCH torment and SO MUCH SORROW, because she glorified herself and lived deliciously, while she lived; whatsoever her flesh wanted, that she did; for Mystery, Babylon the great city built by the devil himself to deceive his followers to follow him, HAD IT ALL and at all times; he would steal EVERY SECOND you had. He would give you so much that you COULD NOT think about your soul and eternity; and those who are the elect, the devil has used his Babylon to hinder us in our journey to our city which hath foundations, who builder and maker is God.

We, as Abraham, can LIFT up our EYES and BEHOLD ALL that we can SEE and AS far as we can see, IS OURS!

Daniel 7:27... "And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom UNDER THE WHOLE HEAVEN, SHALL BE GIVEN TO THE PEOPLE OF THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him."

This earth shall be taken AWAY from those who are wicked and who have destroyed it and it shall be given to GOD'S SAINTS. Yes, this world as we know it will be burned up, and a NEW EARTH and HEAVEN shall be created for them. It will be as the GARDEN OF EDEN before the fall. It will be FULL of MANSIONS, for ALL of its inhabitants are ALL KINGS and PRIESTS. John 14:1-3; Revelation 1:6; 5:10! These words are more true than gravity.

    YES, BABYLON'S WALL ARE COMING DOWN! SING that song and SHOUT as you sing it with understanding. BABYLON IS FALLEN, IS FALLEN, TO RISE NO MORE! Remember those words: NO MORE, AT ALL, for you will read them a few times from verse 11 to 23.

    "And the merchants OF THE EARTH shall weep and mourn over her." The children of Babylon shall weep and mourn! WHY? Their playground, where they serve their uncontrollable lust is now DESTROYED!

 While they had this world and all things therein; they sang, rejoiced, and laugh; BUT NOW, they are weeping and mourning!
 
    "WOE unto you that are FULL! for he SHALL hunger. (this is NOT speaking of food; but of the PLEASURES OF THIS LIFE) WOE unto you that LAUGH NOW! for you SHALL MOURN and WEEP." Luke 6:25

    "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then shall ALL the tribes of the EARTH MOURN, and they SHALL SEE the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Matthew 24:30

    Here in Revelation 18, their mourning and weeping is JUST beginning! Read Revelation 14:9-11

    "For no man buyeth their merchandise ANY MORE." This world will not last forever, it will soon be destroyed forever.

    The merchandise that is mentioned in verse 12, are things that are used in this world to make the things that the people of the earth lust after. The things mentioned in verse 13 are the things used by the people of Babylon to serve them and their untempered appetite. They are the FRUITS that their soul lusted after; ALL things which were DAINTY AND GOODLY.
"And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and ALL THINGS which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them NO MORE AT ALL." 18:14

    "Likewise also as it were in the days of Lot; they did EAT, they DRANK, they BROUGHT, they SOLD, they PLANTED, they BUILDED;" Luke 17:28

    "The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, WEEPING and WAILING, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in FINE LINEN, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls!" Revelation 18:15-16

    This beautiful, glorious, playground for the children of Babylon, SHALL FALL TO RISE NO MORE.

    The children of Babylon COULD NOT BELIEVE that their GREAT CITY is being destroyed by FIRE. verse 18

    She is MADE DESOLATE because of ALL of the ABOMINATIONS therein! Revelation 17:5 with 18:19

    The people of Babylon lived HIGH: "And they cast dust on their heads, and CRIED, WEEPING and WAILING, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea BY REASON OF HER COSTLINESS!....." Revelation 18:19

    We WILL REJOICE over her in that day, when we see her FALL. verse 20
 
    "And a mightily angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown DOWN, and shall be FOUND NO MORE AT ALL." verse 21
 
    "And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; (the world and their music will be forever gone. ALLELUIA!) and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee."
    Verse 22
 
    They WILL not be needed, for THEIR WORLD IS GONE FOREVER!

    "And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; (Babylon will fall, never to rise again, so there will never be a need for lights again) and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard NO MORE AT ALL (HOW MANY TIMES have we read those words? We should KNOW by now; THIS WORLD WILL PASS AWAY  FOREVER VERY SOON) for thy merchants were the GREAT MEN of the EARTH; (or BABYLON) for by thy sorceries were ALL NATIONS DECEIVED."

    verse 23
 
    EVERYTHING (verses 12-14) in THIS WORLD is USED by the devil and his children, to deceive ALL the simple ones, who REFUSED the wisdom found ONLY in the HOLY SCRIPTURES. The devil uses SORCERIES through the THINGS IN BABYLON TO SEDUCE PEOPLE INTO FOLOWING HIM.

    In Revelation 17 we saw the she was drunken with the blood of SAINTS. In Revelation 18:24, we find here that there were blood of saints as well; but they were not drunken with the blood of saints, as the whore was; But we find something in this Babylon that was not in the whore:

    "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and saints, and of ALL that were slain UPON THE EARTH." Many have died through wars; because of sex crime; hatred, accidents, and many others ways, other than religion. ALL of the slain are found in MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT CITY THAT IS AT ENMITY against the God who created all things therein!

     SUMMARY OF MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT CITY OF THE BEAST

    This beast WAS from the beginning; BUT he was wounded to death, by the Son of man, Jesus Christ, who was also, the Son of the living God; But it WAS the SON of MAN that defeated the devil; the god of BABYLON. This beast will be healed from his deadly wound at the time of the end of this world, and ALL of the world (BABYLON) shall wonder after the beast. The people of Babylon shall be ONE mind, and SHALL give their power and strength unto the beast to make BABYLON the means of their deception. They DO NOT know that their god is using them to deceive themselves and others!! THIS BEAST will make a city that HAS EVERYTHING for his deceived followers. He will deceive them into believing that THEY ARE GREAT, POWERFUL and there is NO ONE like GREAT BABYLON. WHO is BABYLON? This world and the people therein.

I took most of this from a book I wrote around fourteen years ago, or so. A book I gave freely out. I have never charged for any material I have written and never will.

[Amo]

Amo, I do know what the reformers taught, much of which she and the SDA reject. What they do accept is their teachings on 2nd Thess. 2 concerning the man of sin, other than that, they are worlds apart on most teachings/doctrines.  I will also note, that both the godly reformers and the SDA teachings on Thess. 2 are not biblical since both limited the man of sin to the Popes of RCC, when they leave out most of the false prophets and professors which ARE included in the phrase "man OF sin".  Another subject for another day.

Also, let it be noted the reformers never wrote on Revelation, if they did, I can not recall ever reading any commentary written by them on Revelation.

So, the SDA teachings mainly from Helen G. White are her own concerning the book of Revelation 17, and 18, and those teachings were written three hundred years after the reformation period and are well documented for all to read.

I have read what she has written..... very little, enough to know she's a false prophetess?

While I refuse to judge every SDA as lost, I do reject their own system as a system of false teachings, including their teachings on the book of Revelation overall considered.

Your ignorances is of your own choosing. Concerning the writings of both the Reformers and Ellen G. White. I am sure you have no unction to actually back your above statements up with proof, nevertheless I am here to address them if you can.

[Amo]

Also, let it be noted the reformers never wrote on Revelation, if they did, I can not recall ever reading any commentary written by them on Revelation.

I will address the ignorance of this statement shortly.

[RB]

Your ignorances of your own choosing. Concerning the writings of both the Reformers and Ellen G. White. I am sure you have no unction to actually back your above statements up with proof, nevertheless I am here to address them if you can.

Let us start with the Reformers: they ALL taught free election of grace; they all taught the human will is in bondage to sin and the devil. Those two doctrines along go a long way toward the truth, Ellen G. White denied BOTH.

In the biblical sense, the divine provision for humanity’s redemption, foreordained in eternal ages prior to Creation, and the divine desire that all human beings should be saved; in the popular, Calvinistic sense, a supposed divine decree foreordaining particular individuals to eternal salvation, and all others to eternal punishment. In Calvinist theology the former is known as election and the latter as reprobation. Seventh-day Adventists accept the biblical definition and deny the validity of the Calvinistic interpretation. It is commonly accepted by Seventh-day Adventists that God has perfect foreknowledge of all events—past, present, and future. Foreseeing the defection of Lucifer and of our first parents, He devised the plan of salvation, which provided that Christ should become a substitute for guilty humanity ( John 3:16 ; 1 Peter 1:19 , 20 ) and that His grace should be offered freely to all ( Titus 2:11 ; 2 Tim. 1:9 ). It is God’s will that all should accept the pardon offered and the gift of eternal life ( 1 Tim. 2:3 , 4 ; 2 Peter 3:9 ; Eze. 33:11 ). As a result of his sin, Adam passed on to his posterity a sinful nature, including both the tendency to sin and the natural results of sin. With sin came death ( Rom. 5:12 ), but Christ died that humans might live ( John 3:16 ; Rom. 5:18 ). On the cross He provided salvation for all, as a free gift; He now invites all to accept the gift, and gives it to all who do accept it ( John 1:12 ; Eph. 2:8 ; Rev. 22:17 ). That free will is the determining factor in an individual’s personal destiny is evident from the fact that God continually presents the results of obedience and disobedience, and urges the sinner to choose obedience and life ( Deut. 30:19 ; Joshua 24:15 ; Isa. 1:16 , 20 ; Rev. 22:17 ); and from the fact that it is possible for the believer, having once been a recipient of grace, to fall away and be lost ( 1 Cor. 9:27 ; Gal. 5:4 ; Heb. 6:4–6 ; 10:29 ). See Evil, Origin of ; Humanity, Doctrine of ; Perseverance . God may foresee each individual choice that will be made, but His foreknowledge does not determine what that choice shall be. The basic fallacy of Calvinist theology with respect to predestination is that it altogether ignores the consistent and repeated affirmations of Scripture concerning the validity and effectiveness of human choice as the determining factor in each person’s salvation. Bible predestination consists in the effective purpose of God that all who choose to believe in Christ shall be saved ( John 1:12 ; Eph. 1:4–10 ). In the early Christian centuries, Tatian ( c. A.D. 160), Irenaeus ( c. A.D. 130– c. 200), and Tertullian ( c. A.D. 160– c. 220) taught the doctrine of free will. Origen ( c. A.D. 185– c. 254) was an earnest foe of the doctrine of unconditional predestination. In the sixteenth century Zwingli, Luther, and Calvin accepted predestination as earlier taught by Augustine. Arminius (1560–1609) reacted against Calvinism and taught conditional predestination, placing the emphasis on faith. With respect to predestination, Seventh-day Adventists are, in a general sense, in the Arminian tradition.

Source: https://ellenwhite.org/topics/290

Let us talk after you address my last post on Revelation

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I agreed~yet, mountains and kingdoms are, as I said above used interchangeably in the scriptures, and gave you and others who may read these posts Daniel 2:35 to prove this.

Jarrod, not when the two are used interchangeably within the scriptures, it truly helps.

That is a regular feature of Revelation.  Virtually ALL of the symbols used there are either used elsewhere in Scripture, or in other books that are Scripture-adjacent.

My prior argument holds.  One does not interpret a symbol with ANOTHER symbol.  There would be NO revelation (nothing revealed) if that were so.  The interpretation is just as simple as it looks.  The figurative heads are literal mountains.

Jarrod, all kingdoms have kings, you cannot separate the two! And yes, they are riding the beast, or, the antichristian kingdom of the FINAL kingdom that shall be on the earth at the time of Christ's return, they received their power from THE BEAST, or, the spirit of Satan, who opposes and hates God, his people, whom he will make war with during the end of the little season. Give me time, maybe in my next post.

I am having a hard time parsing your longer post.  I drove 14 hours today, so I'm sure the problem is on my end.  Instead, I will just postulate an alternative interpretation to compare against yours:

The woman riding the beast is the Jewish priesthood.

That didn't take two posts, or even a paragraph.  I would now like to invoke Occam's Razor.

Jarrod

[RB]

My prior argument holds.  One does not interpret a symbol with ANOTHER symbol.  There would be NO revelation (nothing revealed) if that were so.  The interpretation is just as simple as it looks.

No interpretation in Revelation is as simple as it looks~everyone should know this. Daniel has already explained to us how mountains are used in prophetic teaching. I'll go with the prophet Daniel.

Daniel 2:35 ~"Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a GREAT MOUNTAIN, (KINGDOM) and filled the earth."

We could easily add support to these scriptures to prove how the prophets used the word mountain in the prophetic teachings. We would be wise to follow them.

The woman riding the beast is the Jewish priesthood.

You cannot prove that teaching using God's word. The Jewish priesthood no longer poses any threat to believers and truly they hardly mention them in their writings to the Gentiles churches~our threat is professing so-called believers in Jesus Christ and THIS WORLD SYSTEM with all it uses to allure the flesh to follow it and to leave Christ. Just what Revelations 17, and 18 are speaking about. Truly, have the Jewish priesthood been any temptation to you, they certainly have not been to me~NO NEED for me to "Come out of her my people" since I have never been part of them! But, the world I live in every day in this body of sin and death, and that call is a call I need to be reminded of as long as I live in this world.

I drove 14 hours today

Wow, that's 700 to 800 hundred miles or so, Get some rest.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

The woman riding the beast is the Jewish priesthood.

You cannot prove that teaching using God's word.

I think a strong case can be made.  Let's look at the description of the woman in Revelation 17:

1.  The inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.  Rev 17:2 

In the Bible, who is it that commits fornication over and over and over?  Ezekiel 23 is a chapter dedicated to declaring the infidelities of the two sisters Israel and Judah, from their origins in Egypt and the wilderness, to their latter days where they are specifically said to commit whoredom with other nations (Assyria and Babylon).  But this theme - Israel and/or Judah as whores - is prevalent throughout the Old Testament.   Another example - in Hosea the prophet is told to model their fornications by marrying a literal prostitute.

2.  Rev 17:4  The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls.

In the Bible, who wears purple and scarlet and gold, and is decked out with precious stones?  That description matches Exodus 28:

And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.  Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.  And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.  And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.  And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.  And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

This is a description of the special adornments worn by the High Priest of Israel.  No other group in the Bible is described as wearing purple and scarlet.

3.  Rev 17:6  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Who was it that murdered the prophets?  Not the Babylonians!  The book of Daniel tells us that they deported the prophets to Babylon and put them in the service of the king there.  Luke tells us plainly who murdered the saints of old:

Luke 13:34  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Likewise, who killed the martyrs of Jesus?  In every city of the world, it was the Jews who persecuted the Christians.

The evidence is strong.  The woman of Revelation 17 comes clad in scarlet and purple and gold and gemstones, and killing the prophets and martyrs, and that is the leadership of the Jews - their priests and high priests.

Jarrod

[Amo]

Let us start with the Reformers: they ALL taught free election of grace; they all taught the human will is in bondage to sin and the devil. Those two doctrines along go a long way toward the truth, Ellen G. White denied BOTH.  Source: https://ellenwhite.org/topics/290

Let us talk after you address my last post on Revelation

First, what you quoted was not written by Ellen G. White, nor does it even quote her. It is the opinion of whoever wrote the article. EGW and Uriah Smith had some disagreements in their day. Your accusation was concerning EGW, you should therefore of course quote her writings in addressing those accusations, not what someone else thought or thinks. Your quote is proof of nothing concerning your accusation. Nor are your accusations above therefore legit either regarding the same. Nor did all reformers believe as you suggest. They had may different views on a wide range of subjects. Biblical prophecy however, was a common focus which most agreed upon concerning antichrist and Babylon. Volumes were written by them concerning these subjects. The following quotes are concerning the significance and effect of bible prophecy throughout the ages. They are from THE PROPHETIC FAITH OF OUR FATHERS, VOL. 1.

6. PRE—REFORMATION PATHFINDERS GUIDED BY PROPHECY

And when the common folk came into possession of the Bible they found in its prophecies the portrayals of “Babylon,” the great courtesan, and of “Antichrist,” the oppressor of God’s truth and people. Could it be that these were allusions to the church, fallen from its high calling and place? Whole movements sprang up, which found their invincible strength and consolation, despite peril and persecution, in the prophecies that spoke of the final glory of God’s loyal little band and of their acceptance in the councils of heaven as those clad in white robes, and with palms of victory in their hands. The irrepressible Waldenses were fortified for the stake and the sword by their study and application of prophecy.

Prophecy inspired some of the trenchant poems of Dante and soul—searching sonnets of Petrarch in the early Renaissance. Prophecy soon after guided Wyclif in his epochal contest with Rome. It was prophecy that fortified Huss and Savonarola for the flames of the martyr’s stake. It was prophecy that Columbus, faithful son of the Roman church, cited as foretelling his voyages to the New World, as he rejoiced in the thought of helping to bring about the preaching of the gospel to all before the end of time. He considered his astonishing discoveries but a fulfillment of Bible prophecy, a subject that occupied his thoughts to such an extent that, famous discoverer though he was, he even wrote a treatise on the prophecies.

7. FLAMES HIGH IN REFORMATION TIMES

And it was by the flaming torch of prophecy that Luther sought to identify his mortal foe, and was encouraged to make his epochal break with Rome. Prophecy definitely molded the aggressive course of the Reformation in Germany, Switzerland, Britain, Scandinavia, and the Low Countries, and even penetrated to France and Italy.

The influence of the prophetic note on the Reformation is well—nigh incalculable, though largely unrecognized and unheralded by historians and biographers. When Luther saw the hopelessness of reforming the church from within, he began to think of her as apostate from God—a body from which he must separate. When he burned the pope’s bull as the bull of the prophesied Antichrist, he sounded the battle cry to withdraw from her communion and to fight against the Antichristian system. This clarion call soon echoed throughout all Europe with tremendous effect. Its repercussions were felt everywhere. So it was not merely the medieval mind which stressed prophecy. The highly educated Reformation leaders used prophecy as one of their mightiest weapons in calling upon the faithful to separate from Babylon, the fallen church, and to break with the Antichrist who had usurped the place of God, and who sat enthroned in the temple of God.

But they did not stop there. They wrote a veritable stream of tractates and commentaries, and made the common people familiar with the interpretations of the four world powers of Daniel and the phrasings of the other prophetic symbols of the book. From the Reformation stems a long line of prophetic expositions which molded Protestant thinking for centuries after their day. These were based on what came to be known as the Historical School of prophetic interpretation—the progressive and continuous fulfillment of prophecy, in unbroken sequence, from Daniel’s day and the time of John, on down to the second advent and the end of the age.

It was these established principles of prophecy that nerved the English Reformers for the cruel fires of Smithfield, in the days of “Bloody Mary.” The key prophecy of Daniel 7 furnished the text for Knox’s powerful first sermon, which moved all Scotland. And it was actually the force of prophecy that King James I of England invoked in his astonishing appeal to the other potentates of Europe in 1609, based on the premise of the prophecies of the Antichrist in the Apocalypse.

All the leading Protestant scholars wrote on the principal prophecies of the Bible as a matter of course, just as they wrote on the rest of the Bible. And among these commentators were often names not usually connected by us with prophetic exposition—brilliant scientists and mathematicians, for example, like John Napier, Sir Isaac Newton, and William Whist on. All walks of life were, in fact, represented. (See illustration in frontispiece.)

8. OLD WORLD WITNESSES PARALLELED BY NEW

At the same time the Old World witnesses were paralleled by vigorous writers in colonial America. Familiar names appear in a new role John Cotton, the Mathers, Jonathan Edwards, and Timothy Dwight, to name but a few—as effective expositors of prophecy. Prophecy held a key place in the thinking of colonial leaders in all vocations—physicians, legislators, governors, judges, teachers, college presidents, historians, and poets, as well as the theologians. All were gripped by the force of fulfilled prophecy, and gave utterance to remarkable expositions that have become unknown today to the vast majority.

Prophetic terms were woven into the speech and literature of the times, as, for example, the famous New England Primer. Not only did Harvard College have a lecture series based on Bible prophecy, but also several of her earlier presidents wrote on prophecy. In the struggle for religious freedom in the American colonies, Roger Williams was, of course, the outstanding figure. He too considered religious intolerance a heritage from the persecuting “beast” of prophecy, and this he boldly published and pressed upon Parliament.

9. PROPHECY AND THE COUNTER REFORMATION

But if prophecy was a forceful weapon in the hands of Protestants, it was also turned to effective account by the Catholics. Forced to the defensive by the uncomplimentary prophetic symbols and epithets applied by Protestant expositors to the Papacy, the Jesuits produced two counter interpretations of these selfsame prophecies, called Futurism and Preterism. These were designed to parry the force of Protestant Reformation teachings and to shift the application of the Antichrist and similar prophecies away from the pope and out of the Middle Ages. And these systems left their indelible mark upon history. They have profoundly influenced multitudes, not simply within the Catholic Church, but, strangely enough, outside—in the very ranks of Protestantism as well. In fact, they have split Protestantism as regards prophecy.

10. FRENCH REVOLUTION ANTICIPATED

Moreover, it was prophecy that led a line of men for more than a century before the French Revolution to look for a violent upheaval in France shortly before 1800, and to leave the record of their considered expectation of the time and the nation involved. So the search for the understanding of prophecy has been the pursuit of some of the greatest minds this world has ever known, and in all epochs and areas of the Christian Era. That has been its undeniable influence.

12. AN UNSUSPECTED MOTIVATING FORCE

Prophecy has therefore been vastly more of a motivating and guiding force in the lives of men in the leadership of the church and the nations than has been recognized. This conclusion has been clearly borne out by the dust—covered evidence available in the archives of both the Old World and the New.

This photoflash picture of the past here presented—glimpsed fleetingly as the curtain is briefly drawn aside—gives an idea of the fascinating path across the centuries that we shall traverse through the pages of these four volumes of Prophetic Faith. Here will appear, in documented form, the long—neglected and largely unknown evidence concerning the prophetic faith of our spiritual forefathers. Here this rough sketch will be filled in, and the picture completed. We shall view the past that we may better understand the present, and in turn, may discern with greater confidence the grand outline of the future in the light of prophecy. That is the ample justification of this extensive quest.

[Amo]

You cannot prove that teaching using God's word.
I think a strong case can be made.  Let's look at the description of the woman in Revelation 17:

1.  The inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.  Rev 17:2 

In the Bible, who is it that commits fornication over and over and over?  Ezekiel 23 is a chapter dedicated to declaring the infidelities of the two sisters Israel and Judah, from their origins in Egypt and the wilderness, to their latter days where they are specifically said to commit whoredom with other nations (Assyria and Babylon).  But this theme - Israel and/or Judah as whores - is prevalent throughout the Old Testament.   Another example - in Hosea the prophet is told to model their fornications by marrying a literal prostitute.

2.  Rev 17:4  The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls.

In the Bible, who wears purple and scarlet and gold, and is decked out with precious stones?  That description matches Exodus 28:

And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.  Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.  And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.  And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.  And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.  And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

This is a description of the special adornments worn by the High Priest of Israel.  No other group in the Bible is described as wearing purple and scarlet.

3.  Rev 17:6  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Who was it that murdered the prophets?  Not the Babylonians!  The book of Daniel tells us that they deported the prophets to Babylon and put them in the service of the king there.  Luke tells us plainly who murdered the saints of old:

Luke 13:34  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Likewise, who killed the martyrs of Jesus?  In every city of the world, it was the Jews who persecuted the Christians.

The evidence is strong.  The woman of Revelation 17 comes clad in scarlet and purple and gold and gemstones, and killing the prophets and martyrs, and that is the leadership of the Jews - their priests and high priests.

Jarrod

Yes, all of the above can be and was applied to Israel of the old covenant. The Book of Revelation however, was written for the new covenant. Literal Israel of this new covenant era has not been part of any of the above but for a very brief time shortly after Christ's crucifixion. After which as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ prophesied, the city, temple, and nation of Israel were destroyed and dispersed. Never to rise again as concerning the teaching and practice of their religion and the ability to persecute those speaking out against it. While there is no Temple with its sacrifices, there can be no true Israel of the old covenant brand again.

To the contrary, a new covenant apostate church though, fulfills all of the same details you have applied to literal Israel during this new covenant era. A spiritual Babylon to war against the spiritual Israel of the new covenant. With a new false priesthood standing between humanity and their Savior once again. Dawning apparel with all the same colors of ancient Israel and gold and jewelry. Who have murdered countless millions of the saints throughout the history of this new covenant era. Far more than Israel ever did. You simply choose not to go there.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

To the contrary, a new covenant apostate church though, fulfills all of the same details you have applied to literal Israel during this new covenant era. A spiritual Babylon to war against the spiritual Israel of the new covenant. With a new false priesthood standing between humanity and their Savior once again. Dawning apparel with all the same colors of ancient Israel and gold and jewelry. Who have murdered countless millions of the saints throughout the history of this new covenant era. Far more than Israel ever did. You simply choose not to go there.

What you say about the Catholic church may be true.  As for me... the text does not go there.  Why would I go where the text does not?

[Amo]

What you say about the Catholic church may be true.  As for me... the text does not go there.  Why would I go where the text does not?

Because the prophecy does go there. Even in the old testament, the wine of God's wrath was of Babylon not Israel. Babylon was the golden cup of wine in the Lord's hand unto judgment and destruction of Israel in apostasy and her surrounding heathen nations.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Jer 51:6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence. 7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. 8 Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed. 9 We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country: for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies.

The following prophecy is dual in nature concerning the wine of babylon which God Himself made apostate Israel and the heathens round about her drink, then expanding the prophecy to all the nations and inhabitants of the earth, as it is in the end.

Jer 25:9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. 10 Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. 11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. 12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations. 13 And I will bring upon that land all my words which I have pronounced against it, even all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah hath prophesied against all the nations. 14 For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands. 15 For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it. 16 And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that I will send among them. 17 Then took I the cup at the LORD'S hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me: 18 To wit, Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and the kings thereof, and the princes thereof, to make them a desolation, an astonishment, an hissing, and a curse; as it is this day; 19 Pharaoh king of Egypt, and his servants, and his princes, and all his people; 20 And all the mingled people, and all the kings of the land of Uz, and all the kings of the land of the Philistines, and Ashkelon, and Azzah, and Ekron, and the remnant of Ashdod, 21 Edom, and Moab, and the children of Ammon, 22 And all the kings of Tyrus, and all the kings of Zidon, and the kings of the isles which are beyond the sea, 23 Dedan, and Tema, and Buz, and all that are in the utmost corners, 24 And all the kings of Arabia, and all the kings of the mingled people that dwell in the desert, 25 And all the kings of Zimri, and all the kings of Elam, and all the kings of the Medes, 26 And all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another, and all the kingdoms of the world, which are upon the face of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them. 27 Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you. 28 And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink. 29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts. 30 Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth. 31 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD. 32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. 33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground. 34 Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel. 35 And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape. 36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: for the LORD hath spoiled their pasture. 37 And the peaceable habitations are cut down because of the fierce anger of the LORD. 38 He hath forsaken his covert, as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor, and because of his fierce anger.

The wine of Babylon is the madness and strong delusion God sent upon Israel of old and her surrounding nations, in judgment and destruction through Babylon. This is the strong delusion God will send upon this earth as well shortly before He returns unto judgment and destruction. He sends them strong delusion and the wine of madness by the hand of Babylon because they have already chosen to believe lies over the truths of God's commandments and word. Just as Israel of old and her surrounding nations did as well.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

And who is he that set himself up in the temple of God as though he were God save the Pope of Rome, as the Reformers testified. Placing himself at the head of the church in the place of Jesus Christ our Lord. And who are all those who accept this imposture as the head of Christ's church, but the Roman Catholic church, and all who submit to it. And who is ever increasingly telling the whole world what to do, and ever increasingly being listened to and obeyed, but the Pope of Rome and his political minions and enforcers around the world. Though so very many deny this truth, which is exactly why God will send the strong delusion of Babylon's wine upon those who have already rejected the truth, unto judgment and destruction. Just as He did in the days of old with apostate Israel and her surrounding nations.

Jer 51:24 And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the LORD. 25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities...........................
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Because the prophecy does go there.

Revelation 17 indicates that the name "Babylon" is a mystery.  That should exclude literal Babylon from consideration.

If you want to make a case for it signifying Rome, that's fine.  Rome is here in the prophecy, but it is the beast; not the woman.  The woman is the Jewish priesthood.

Jarrod

[RB]

Been gone a few days, I need to get caught up, so let me read and ponder what has been written and then I'll post~just did not want any to think I'm finished, with nothing to say.

[4WD]

RB, fear not.  I don't think anyone here would ever think that you are finished with nothing to say.

[Amo]

Revelation 17 indicates that the name "Babylon" is a mystery.  That should exclude literal Babylon from consideration.

If you want to make a case for it signifying Rome, that's fine.  Rome is here in the prophecy, but it is the beast; not the woman.  The woman is the Jewish priesthood.

Jarrod

Yes, Babylon is a mystery directly tied to the mystery of iniquity. Nevertheless, she is addressed in the book of

REVELATION

.

revelation
rĕv″ə-lā′shən
noun
1. The act of revealing or disclosing.
2. Something revealed, especially a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized.
3. A sudden insight or idea.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

We also know that the mystery of iniquity at least involves the man of sin setting himself up in the temple of God as though he were God, and that the mystery of iniquity was already at work in Paul's day. We also know from Paul's writings more than others, that the new covenant temple is the Church of Christ. It is not hard therefore to correctly determine that the one who sets themselves up as the visible head of Christ's Church on earth, even declaring himself to be standing in the place of Christ here on earth, is the one Paul was speaking of. The Pope and Roman church fit this bill like no other.

We know from several different scriptures concerning Israel of old, that God considered and referred to His people who were in a state of apostasy as guilty of adultery, fornication, harlotry, and or whoredom. All of which are applied to Babylon the great of this new covenant era as well. As the book of Revelation is written specifically to the Christian church, addressing biblical prophecy in relation to the same. And the church of Rome is without question the oldest and largest apostate "Christian" professing entity in the world. She sits upon many people as the whore of Revelation does as well. Israel of today does not. Nor has it ever since the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ predicted.

I could go on of course with many other identifying marks, but I have repeated them many times over on these boards. I don't really expect to change anyones mind. Nevertheless, what I believe and have been sharing has, is, and will continue to happen according to biblical prophecy. Perhaps some will change their minds when the final undeniable events predicted come about in front of their faces. The building blocks to be able to globally enforce the mark of the beast are all being put in place. I don't think it will be long before the event is effected by Babylon and the final beast she increasingly rides. That timing of course is up to God alone. And that is a good thing.

[3 Resurrections]

RB, you continue to make the same mistake of assuming that the Sea Beast of Revelation 13 and the Scarlet Beast of Revelation 17 are one and the same. They aren't. Therefore, your interpretations are confused from the get-go.  These were two different Beasts with different origins, actions, features, and fates as they are described in those two different contexts.

Also, your own definition of "kings of the earth" that Mystery Babylon ("that great city") was then reigning over in John's days clashes with scripture's definition of this term.  These "kings of the earth" are not regular monarchs of worldly kingdoms.  "Kings of the earth" on the Revelation 17 Scarlet Beast were the biblical term for the HIGH PRIESTS OF THE LAND OF ISRAEL.  These became an obsolete institution whose members were phased out when the New Covenant was launched at Christ's death and resurrection-day ascension.  Any reference to what the "kings of the earth" did or would do in Revelation had to take place while there were still some remaining, living individual HIGH PRIESTS IN ISRAEL as well as former high priests around to perform those actions.  And none of those high priests exist anymore on earth, nor the high priesthood institution either, so this is not a prophecy that could possibly apply to our present time or any times future for us. 

As for your point in the original post, "All the earth wondered after the (Sea) Beast", this was speaking in that context of all of those in the land of Israel ("tes ges", which is not the entire known world).  These in the land of Israel were marveling at the healing of the deadly wound to one of the heads (mountains) that the Roman Sea Beast sat upon.   Quite literally, one of the 7 mountains that the city of Rome was built upon was given a deadly wound by the AD 64 fire at Rome.  Nero began an expensive rebuilding program for the centermost Palatine Hill that became known as "the Golden House" - the imperial palace and its gardens and grounds.  An astounding 100' tall bronze statue of Nero portrayed as a god was set up near this renovated imperial palace.

That renovation project of the imperial grounds was what Revelation's "healing of the deadly wound" to one of the heads / mountains referred to after the devastating AD 64 fire at Rome.  This fire at Rome was blamed on the Christians, because Christ's doctrine had taught about a certain fiery end soon to come (in the land of Israel - "tes ges" - which He wished were already kindled in His days on earth).  Christ had once said, "I came to cast fire on the earth ("tes ges"- the land of Israel), and would that it were already kindled!" ( Luke 12:49).   Revelation 13:5's  literal 42-month period of severe persecution by the Sea Beast warring against the Christians in Rome was begun by Nero in late AD 64, lasting almost until Nero's suicide death in AD 68.  A 42-month period of persecution that "overcame" the saints by putting them to death in vast numbers. 

The Sea Beast was most definitely Roman, because Satan's seat at Pergamos (the famous Pergamos altar in the temple to Zeus) was handed over to the Roman Republic by the dying King Attalus III in 133 BC, since he had no heir to which he could pass his entire Pergamos kingdom.  This gift of "Satan's seat" in the city of Pergamos to the Sea Beast was described by comparing Revelation 2:13 with Revelation 13:2. 

Scripture defines its own terms.