Author Topic: America or Israel?  (Read 12238 times)

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Offline dp

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #70 on: Sun Aug 30, 2009 - 08:47:38 »
They HAD to have happened... because the scriptures give a SPECIFIC time frame.. and that time frame elapsed a long time ago.

To say that he hasn't returned is to deny the scriptures.


You are obviously confused, because written in Matthew 24:42 is Christ saying no man knows the day or hour of His coming, meaning His second coming. The time of Christ's FIRST coming to die on the cross was given through the Old Testament prophets, but not the time of His second coming to rule all nations with a rod of iron.

To say that Christ has returned already is actually denying The Scriptures.


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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #70 on: Sun Aug 30, 2009 - 08:47:38 »

Offline watcher

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #71 on: Tue Sep 01, 2009 - 08:38:47 »
by watcher,
Quote
The falling away (apostasy) of the European Americans has already occured, and the ten horns (son of perdition) has already exalted and revealed himself, as foretold by Paul in 11Thes.2.

That would be hilarious if you weren't serious.
Quote


You're right, I've never been more serious about anything in my life.

Paul stated in 11Thes.2 that, before Christ can return to earth there has to occur the apostasy or falling away first, and afterwards the man of lawlessness exalted and revealed.

As I stated before, this scripture, as well as all other end-time scriptures are about the European Americans (the ten kings), and about that other race (other ten horns) that Daniel described in 7:24, and that John described in Rev.17:12 and16.

In this case the falling away or apostasy means, the public abandoning of a doctrine .

Thus what Paul was saying in 11Thes. 2:3 was that, Christ cannot return to earth until out there in the future when the European Americans fall away from a doctrine once held by their ancestors about the man of lawlessness.

Notice Paul said that this would have to occur first, before that man of lawlessness (other ten horns) could exalt themselves.

So, what was that doctrine once held by our ancestors about the man of lawlessness, and of which we modern-day European Americans have abandoned and fallen away from?
Was it not the doctrine of interracial sex and marriage?

And, isn't that interracial sex and marriage that which Daniel and John called the abomination of desolation or the abomination that makes desolate the ten kings ie, the European Americans?

Isn't this what Paul was referring to by the term mystery of iniquity in 11Thes.2:7?

Is this teaching too deep for you people?
Can you not understand the meat of the Word?

"Strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
(Hebrews 5:14)

Tantor

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #72 on: Tue Sep 01, 2009 - 09:05:03 »
They HAD to have happened... because the scriptures give a SPECIFIC time frame.. and that time frame elapsed a long time ago.

To say that he hasn't returned is to deny the scriptures.


You are obviously confused, because written in Matthew 24:42 is Christ saying no man knows the day or hour of His coming, meaning His second coming. The time of Christ's FIRST coming to die on the cross was given through the Old Testament prophets, but not the time of His second coming to rule all nations with a rod of iron.

To say that Christ has returned already is actually denying The Scriptures.



So Jesus and John lied?

Quote

Revelation 1 (English Standard Version)

Revelation 1
Prologue
 1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants[a] the things that must soon take place.(C) He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God and to(E) the testimony of Jesus Christ, even(F) to all that he saw. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.


Quote

Mark 13

28"From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 29So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 30 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Offline watcher

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #73 on: Tue Sep 01, 2009 - 09:34:06 »
They HAD to have happened... because the scriptures give a SPECIFIC time frame.. and that time frame elapsed a long time ago.

To say that he hasn't returned is to deny the scriptures.

Quote

Someone has really done a number on you.  I actually feel sorry for you.

The second Coming of Christ is going to be the most glorious sight the born-again Christian believer has ever witnessed, yet the most frightening sight ever witnessed by the non-believer and the deceived.

Christ's 2nd Coming will be thus:

A loud trumpet is going to sound...so loud it will awake the dead.

Then a loud shout from the voice of the Archangel.

Afterwards, the heavens are going to roll back like a scroll, revealing all the saints that have lived and died throughout history, with Jesus leading the pack.

Then, the saints that are alive and on the earth will be caught up with them.

You need to dismiss the word "soon" in those passages of scriptures, for a day is like a thousand years to Jesus, and a thousand years like a day.






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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #73 on: Tue Sep 01, 2009 - 09:34:06 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Tantor

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #74 on: Tue Sep 01, 2009 - 09:37:38 »
What else are we supposed to dismiss in your version of the bible?

John wrote Revelation.. I don't think he was as confused as you.

I also don't think Jesus intended 2000 years when he said this generation.

You are so deluded it isn't funny anymore.. you pick and chose what you want to believe based on some version of the bible you have in your own head.

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #74 on: Tue Sep 01, 2009 - 09:37:38 »



Offline watcher

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #75 on: Tue Sep 01, 2009 - 09:45:40 »
What else are we supposed to dismiss in your version of the bible?

John wrote Revelation.. I don't think he was as confused as you.

I also don't think Jesus intended 2000 years when he said this generation.

You are so deluded it isn't funny anymore.. you pick and chose what you want to believe based on some version of the bible you have in your own head.


When Jesus said "this generation", He meant the generation that would witness His 2nd Coming, and the events of that generation which would lead up to His 2nd Coming.

Tantor

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #76 on: Tue Sep 01, 2009 - 09:48:05 »
If that is what he meant then why didn't he clarify it?...  he would have said THAT generation instead of THIS generation.


Offline rezar

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #77 on: Tue Sep 01, 2009 - 09:54:13 »
by watcher,
Quote
Isn't this what Paul was referring to by the term mystery of iniquity in 11Thes.2:7?


You cannot fast forward Paul's words to 2,000yrs+ in the future. You must honor what the scripture says.

This verse alone tells ANYONE that Paul was directing his words to his audience of Christians in AD52. Paul is NOT speaking to you or me directly. Here's the verse:

2Thess.2:5,
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?


OK watcher, overcome that verse & you could prove my point wrong- But you can't!

Now, "the mystery of iniquity that was already at work" was behind the scenes. Nero was not manifest yet. He was not emperor until AD54. In AD52, king or emperor # 5- Claudius was on the Roman throne. However, behind the scenes was Claudius' wife, Agrippina, who was plotting to kill him so her son, Nero- could become Emperor. And so she did poison Claudius, so Nero (the man of sin) could be made emperor.

The apostasy (or any apostasy, is always those who turned away from the Faith.) Jesus expressly predicted this falling away in His prophetic discourse- Mt. 24:10,12. St. Paul gives a full delineation of the apostasy, also described as being in the "last days. " Throughout Scripture the apostles confirmed that they were living in the last days. (These were the last days of the Jewish dispensation, or "the end of the AGE of Judaism & the Law." God would forever leave the temple made with hands & bring all believers into the spiritual kingdom of the New Jerusalem. Paul warned Timothy of these defectors. (1Tim.
4:1-3; 2 Tim.3:1-9)

So, 1st watcher, see that Paul's discourse was audience relevant. And then you can research the applicable history that brings the appropriate interpretations of the Text.




Offline watcher

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #78 on: Wed Sep 02, 2009 - 06:41:55 »
by watcher,
Quote
Isn't this what Paul was referring to by the term mystery of iniquity in 11Thes.2:7?


You cannot fast forward Paul's words to 2,000yrs+ in the future. You must honor what the scripture says.

This verse alone tells ANYONE that Paul was directing his words to his audience of Christians in AD52. Paul is NOT speaking to you or me directly. Here's the verse:

2Thess.2:5,
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?


OK watcher, overcome that verse & you could prove my point wrong- But you can't!

Now, "the mystery of iniquity that was already at work" was behind the scenes. Nero was not manifest yet. He was not emperor until AD54. In AD52, king or emperor # 5- Claudius was on the Roman throne. However, behind the scenes was Claudius' wife, Agrippina, who was plotting to kill him so her son, Nero- could become Emperor. And so she did poison Claudius, so Nero (the man of sin) could be made emperor.

The apostasy (or any apostasy, is always those who turned away from the Faith.) Jesus expressly predicted this falling away in His prophetic discourse- Mt. 24:10,12. St. Paul gives a full delineation of the apostasy, also described as being in the "last days. " Throughout Scripture the apostles confirmed that they were living in the last days. (These were the last days of the Jewish dispensation, or "the end of the AGE of Judaism & the Law." God would forever leave the temple made with hands & bring all believers into the spiritual kingdom of the New Jerusalem. Paul warned Timothy of these defectors. (1Tim.
4:1-3; 2 Tim.3:1-9)

So, 1st watcher, see that Paul's discourse was audience relevant. And then you can research the applicable history that brings the appropriate interpretations of the Text.




Quote


Daniel 11:31 says,
"they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place (put in place) the abomination that maketh desolate."
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."  (Dan.12:11)

Please explain these things, and what Nero had to do with it.  What was the daily sacrifice, and who were the they that took the daily sacrifice away?


Offline JohnDB

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #79 on: Wed Sep 02, 2009 - 07:28:24 »
Here is an interesting video...

a little long but it discusses this thing at length and in detail.

Small | Large


Offline rezar

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #80 on: Wed Sep 02, 2009 - 09:29:08 »
Here is an interesting video...

a little long but it discusses this thing at length and in detail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYWlB64upSc&e



That IS sick!
Imagine people actually losing touch with reality & believing such fiction?!

What God prophesied already took place in the natural. 

The kingdom is spiritual.

That's reality.

Offline watcher

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #81 on: Wed Sep 02, 2009 - 10:18:48 »
Here is an interesting video...

a little long but it discusses this thing at length and in detail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYWlB64upSc&e

Quote


The man in the video is correct...End-time scriptures which are being taught in today's Evangelical and Pentacostal churches come straight from the pen of ol John Darby in the 18th Century.  Darby himself was a Christian Zionist who taught that Israel was the focal point of end-time prophecies.  And so, he spreculated and used his own private interpretation of those scriptures.

He's the one who started the whole notion of an end-time false messiah or Antichrist.  He taught that the Antichrist would, in the last days stand in Jerusalem in the (yet to be rebuilt) temple, claiming to be God.  And that the Antichrist would take away the daily (yet to be reinstated) animal sacrifices, and would then go after the believing Jews to kill them.  He taught that this would all take place after the rapture of the Church.
That was almost 200 years ago that he made these predictions, and America's modern-day churches have swallowed hook, line, and sinker all that he taught, and are themselves teaching it.

Those Church leaders have totally overlooked the scriptures in Dan.12 in which the angel of the Lord told Daniel to shut up and seal the writtings of his book until the time of the end when knowledge and understanding of his prophecies would increase.
 
In other words, the angel was saying that, Daniel's prophecies could not be unterstood until the time of the end, AFTER those prophecies had been fulfilled.  Then and only then (at the time of the end) would they be able to understand where and who the prophecies are about.  THEN would they be able to interpret what is meant by "the daily sacrifice", and "the abomination that maketh desolate", etc.  Then and only then would they be able to interpret and know whom the man of lawlessness is.

People, we're living at the time of the end, and AMERICA is the place wherein all these scriptures have come to pass.
Don't take my word for it, instead you must STUDY those scriptures, and apply the terms and events recorded in the scriptures, to those events which have occured in AMERICA, particularly the events which have occured over the last half of this century.














Tantor

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #82 on: Wed Sep 02, 2009 - 10:21:39 »
The time of the end was the end of the sacrifices in the temple in Jerusalem.. which ended in AD70.

Offline watcher

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #83 on: Wed Sep 02, 2009 - 12:18:20 »
The time of the end was the end of the sacrifices in the temple in Jerusalem.. which ended in AD70.

Quote

"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."  (Dan.12:11)

OK, then what was that abomination of desolation that was set up 3 and a half to 4 years after the daily sacrifice was taken away?


Tantor

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #84 on: Wed Sep 02, 2009 - 12:39:19 »
First of all you have to define the ambiguous term 'abomination of desolation'.


Wikipedia has a good little snippet on it.

Quote
In modern Biblical scholarship

The 1 Maccabees usage of the term points to the actions of Antiochus IV Epiphanes in the mid-second century BC. Specifically, he set up an altar to Zeus in the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and sacrificed swine on it around the year 167 BC. Accordingly, most modern scholars believe that Daniel 9:27, 11:31 and 12:11 are a prophecy after the event (or vaticinium ex eventu) relating to Antiochus.[7][8] (see Dating of the Book of Daniel).

Many modern Biblical scholars[9] conclude that Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 are prophecies after the event about the siege of Jerusalem in AD 70 by the Roman general Titus[10] (see Dating of the Gospel of Mark).

    "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city." Luke 21:20-21
« Last Edit: Wed Sep 02, 2009 - 12:45:34 by Tantor »

Offline dp

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #85 on: Thu Sep 03, 2009 - 03:57:48 »
And it still impossible to prove the following events happened already in Jerusalem...

Zech 14:1-9
1   Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2   For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3   Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.
4   And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5   And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
6   And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7   But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8   And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9   And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and His name one.
(KJV)

There are literal events on earth that are to take place at Christ's second coming, which is what that Zechariah 14 chapter is declaring.

Offline dp

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #86 on: Thu Sep 03, 2009 - 04:10:58 »
Many of the same Bible scholars that claim the Romans fulfilled the "abomination of desolation" event in 70 A.D. Jerusalem forget to note what Antiochus Epiphanes did around 170 B.C. in setting up idol worship in Jerusalem and sacrificing swine in the Temple and spreading its broth around inside the Temple.

But the Romans in 70 A.D., per the Jewish historian Josephus, never got a chance to do the kind of things Antiochus did, because the Temple caught fire.

If Antiochus Epiphanes better fullfiled the "abomination of desolation" prophecy in 165-170 B.C. than the 70 A.D. Romans, then what does that show?

It shows that Antiochus and the Roman general Titus only served as TYPES for the "abomination of desolation" event. It reveals our Lord Jesus was actually speaking of a FINAL fulfillment of the "abomination of desolation" event in Jerusalem at a later date, i.e., the very end of this world (still future to us even).


Offline dp

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #87 on: Thu Sep 03, 2009 - 04:31:30 »
For those who think the "abomination of desolation" event of Matthew 24 our Lord mentioned from the Book of Daniel was history, then you might want to keep an eye on a certain orthodox Jewish group in today's Jerusalem, a group called The Temple Mount Faithful And Land of Israel movement. They have a webiste.

They have been gathering the materials to build a third Temple in Jerusalem sometime in our near future. They have already been doing animal sacrifices on a hill overlooking the Temple Mount on Jewish passover for several years now. They already have many of the implements required for the Old Covenant Temple style worship, and even have stonecutters that have cut a cornerstone to set in place on the Temple Mount to rebuild the Temple. They have even marched that cornerstone up to the gates of the Temple Mount to try and set it in place, but the Israeli authorities won't allow them access, yet.

They have been petitioning other Jews around the world for funds, and also Christian Churches for funds. One Christian group in Tennessee even founded a corp. called 'Jesus, Inc.' to send them red heifers for sacrifice. The Jewish Sanhedrin has formed up again in Jerusalem,. There's claim of the finding of the Ark of The Covenant, which is required for Temple worship. And evidently the question of the unblemished red heifer requirement for purifying before going up to the Temple Mount has been settled, otherwise they wouldn't be prepared to set a cornerstone in place.

Those are events of today that should not be considered lightly. There's even evidence of some Islamic clerics warming up to the idea of allowing a Jewish Temple to built on the Temple Mount to exist along with the Dome of The Rock.

So the more some want to push the "abomination of desolation" events back to 70 A.D., it appears more events are happenning in today's Jerusalem to show a strong possibility of another future fulfillment.

Tantor

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #88 on: Thu Sep 03, 2009 - 06:35:21 »
All you need is faith and the proof is right in front of you.

Futurism, which is what you believe, is new age theology... someone invented it in the 1800's..

Do you think God would keep things hidden for 1800 years?.... I don't think so.

Might as well pull out your crystals and quiga boards.


Offline JohnDB

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #89 on: Thu Sep 03, 2009 - 07:06:06 »
All you need is faith and the proof is right in front of you.

Futurism, which is what you believe, is new age theology... someone invented it in the 1800's..

Do you think God would keep things hidden for 1800 years?.... I don't think so.

Might as well pull out your crystals and quiga boards.



Futurism started before even then. Marco Polo was thinking that since now the "America's were going to be settled and witnessed to that the end of the world was at hand as these were the last lands to hear the Gospel.

He was trying to find a way to India that was faster and would go by China so that missionaries could go to China per the emporor's request of his parents.

And the "Abomination that Causes Desolation" as recorded by Josephus in Wars of the Jews...

The fire of the Temple was first. Flaming arrows caught the stores of wood and food on fire. Their storage rooms were overflowing and thus burned. The doors keeping the Roman's at bay though instead of being solid bronze were wooden overlayed with bronze...and that was a discovery that ended the three and a half year seige.

The abomination that causes Desolation was not only the Golden Roman Eagle on top of the main gate into the Temple which was a way of saying that Jews could only worship God at Caesar's (who was claiming divinity) permission. but also effigies of Caesar were put up all over town...another abomination for Jerusalem.

Every bit as bad as what Antiochus did.

Also...how well do you have to do the Abomination that causes desolation in order for it to upset God?

Offline dp

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #90 on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 - 13:54:21 »
JohnDB said:
Quote
Also...how well do you have to do the Abomination that causes desolation in order for it to upset God?

The "dragon" of Rev.13, the "son of perdition", "that Wicked" of 2 Thess.2, all point to the devil himself coming to sit in the Temple in Jerusalem. THAT'S how well the "abomination of desolation" event will top all other 'types' that have gone before.

Offline rezar

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #91 on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 - 14:38:27 »
JohnDB said:
Quote
Also...how well do you have to do the Abomination that causes desolation in order for it to upset God?

The "dragon" of Rev.13, the "son of perdition", "that Wicked" of 2 Thess.2, all point to the devil himself coming to sit in the Temple in Jerusalem. THAT'S how well the "abomination of desolation" event will top all other 'types' that have gone before.

That is a totally incoherent statement. Did you know that God is not the author of confusion?


Offline watcher

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #92 on: Sat Sep 05, 2009 - 12:35:38 »
JohnDB said:
Quote
Also...how well do you have to do the Abomination that causes desolation in order for it to upset God?

The "dragon" of Rev.13, the "son of perdition", "that Wicked" of 2 Thess.2, all point to the devil himself coming to sit in the Temple in Jerusalem. THAT'S how well the "abomination of desolation" event will top all other 'types' that have gone before.

That "Wicked" or "son" of perdition" is just that....he's the "son" of the devil.  Cain was one of them.  Judas as well.  Thus, instead of one, there are many whom are the sons of perdition (pl.). They are the race which sprang from the Devil and Cain.
 
In chapter 9, verse 26 Daniel in fact called them "the people of the prince", meaning, the people of Gog, their "chief prince".

In their visions, both Daniel and John saw them as "the ten horns" which are upon that end-time beast kingdom (upon Babylon, ie America).


Offline stevehut

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #93 on: Sat Sep 05, 2009 - 12:38:25 »
Can someone explain to me why this is important?   ???

Offline zoonance

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #94 on: Sat Sep 05, 2009 - 12:45:12 »
So you don't care about the truth.  I thought we wanted the truth on this Forum.  ::pondering:: ::whistle::

Offline watcher

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #95 on: Sat Sep 05, 2009 - 13:10:33 »
Can someone explain to me why this is important?   ???

It's important that all European peoples know whom the man of sin; son of perdition is, especially the European Americans.  So that they'll know to not co-habit with that race, and exalt him.  For to do so is called "the abomination that maketh desolation", meaning, the abomination that makes the caucasian race desolate.

Offline rezar

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #96 on: Sat Sep 05, 2009 - 17:24:37 »
Can someone explain to me why this is important?   ???


Exactly. In fact, i think watcher   & dp are getting funnier !

Offline stevehut

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #97 on: Sat Sep 05, 2009 - 21:59:24 »
It's important that all European peoples know whom the man of sin; son of perdition is, especially the European Americans.  So that they'll know to not co-habit with that race, and exalt him. 

Huh?   ::headscratch::

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #98 on: Sat Dec 15, 2012 - 02:28:23 »
Quote
AMERICA is the subject of end-time scriptures, NOT Israel.

America didn't even exist at the time when apostolic eschatology was being fulfilled before the people of the generation Jesus addressed had passed.

Therefore, "end-time scriptures" cannot possibly be about America.

Offline Consumingfire24

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #99 on: Mon Dec 17, 2012 - 01:45:20 »
Quote

Watcher - ALL THE PROPHETIC SCRIPTURES have been fulfilled.

larry2 - Alright - Who were the four beasts, and when was the description of them complete in prophesy?

To which scriptures are you referring?

Quote
What of the "Man Child?"

Christ

Quote
Watcher - I've been called a white supremacist many times, but it's only because my accusers cannot rightfully dispute my interpretation of the prophetic scriptures. 

larry2 - Are you connected with any white supremacist group? As to disputing your contentions, I reckon I have many questions, and up to you to prove such doctrine you profess.

No, I'm not connected with any "white supremacist group", and I consider that question an insult.

Israel would need to be a nation for almost any end time prophecies to be fulfilled.  That would be the logical reason why they could not be interpreted until the time.  Also, Islam trying to take over the world would have been inconceivable even 50 years ago.

Adonai has mentioned which countries come against his people by name and they are all the current enemies of Israel.  He even rebukes present day Hamas and Hezbollah for constantly coming against His people. 
« Last Edit: Mon Dec 17, 2012 - 01:47:32 by Consumingfire24 »

Offline gbzone

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #100 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 05:35:55 »
Just a simple note.

The sun rises in the east  and sets in the west .

This can be aplied spiritualy  as in Jerusalem  to Europe to the UK to the USA .

it can also be aplied politicly.

Babylon .Persia. Greece.Rome.Uk. Usa. Jerusalem.

To sugest  that because Jesus is not recorded of speaking about Jerusalem( he did by the way re the restoration of the kingdom of God)  neither then by your reasoning  did he speak about the AMERICA!

But in that he is the Son of David.
who will one day sit on hsi fathers throne  and whos kindom will have no end.
I fail to see how you arrive at it is the USA and not Jerusalem .For it is not the USA who si the apple of Gods eye . But Isreal and the Jews.
and it si not the USA( who is now the head) who is destined to be the head of all the nations.But Isreal (who si now the tail).

There is so much wron g with your post you need to be shut up with God for a while .

in Christ

gerald 

Offline DaveW

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #101 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 06:33:15 »
Can someone explain to me why this is important?   ???
It's important that all European peoples know whom the man of sin; son of perdition is, especially the European Americans.  So that they'll know to not co-habit with that race, and exalt him.  For to do so is called "the abomination that maketh desolation", meaning, the abomination that makes the caucasian race desolate.

Well since most Jews, Jesus included, are Caucasian; that seems highly unlikely.

The  "abomination that maketh desolation" has to do with a re-start of the sacrifice system, thus dissing the sacrifice of Our Lord on the cross.

Offline hammer123

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #102 on: Wed Dec 19, 2012 - 15:22:50 »
Quote
It's the same old scripture twisting and unproven assumptions ("fourth beast (Europe)... little horn (America)" - stated but nowhere close to being proven) that we've seen before.

This too shall pass...

No twisting of scriptures on my part!
I interpret them as I see them, which is the way Jesus taught us.

"When you see these things come to pass", He said.

You have to understand them from the world view of a 1st century Jew in Palestine in order to not twist them.

All that symbolism written down had specific meanings back then and not the general meanings people like you try and impose on them from a 21st century point of view.

The biggest thing you need to understand is that the books were not written to you.

The books were written to us. 

Offline FireSword

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Re: America or Israel?
« Reply #103 on: Wed Dec 19, 2012 - 18:09:58 »
Can someone explain to me why this is important?   ???
It's important that all European peoples know whom the man of sin; son of perdition is, especially the European Americans.  So that they'll know to not co-habit with that race, and exalt him.  For to do so is called "the abomination that maketh desolation", meaning, the abomination that makes the caucasian race desolate.

Well since most Jews, Jesus included, are Caucasian; that seems highly unlikely.

The  "abomination that maketh desolation" has to do with a re-start of the sacrifice system, thus dissing the sacrifice of Our Lord on the cross.

No he causes the sacrifices to cease. He sets up the image of the beast. That's the abomination of desolation an idolotry practice of worshipping the man of sin.


 

     
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