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Offline idono

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America will burn
« on: Tue Nov 22, 2016 - 21:10:05 »
“America will burn” is a head title of an article that I read many years ago. Which was written by a pastor named Dimitru Duduman.

I also believe that Revelation chapter 18 refers to US.

Revelation 18:8 “Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her; death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.”

According to many scientists, west coast of America will encounter 9.0 magnitudes Richter scale earthquake in the coming twenty years.

Apart from that, it was mentioned in the movie <2012> that Yellow Stone is a super volcano, if it erupted a third to two third of the sky of the US will cover by volcanic ash. And within one day, Russia and China will use nuclear missile to attack the US.

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America will burn
« on: Tue Nov 22, 2016 - 21:10:05 »

Offline Alan

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #1 on: Wed Nov 23, 2016 - 05:46:19 »
Certainly all of those things are guaranteed to happen, 100% positively, without a shadow of a doubt, within the next 100,000 years, keep watch  ::smile::

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #1 on: Wed Nov 23, 2016 - 05:46:19 »

Offline notreligus

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #2 on: Wed Nov 23, 2016 - 10:25:37 »
2Peter 3:9  The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
2Peter 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
2Peter 3:11  Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
2Peter 3:12  waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!
2Peter 3:13  But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Offline RB

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #3 on: Wed Nov 23, 2016 - 15:54:03 »
“America will burn” is a head title of an article that I read many years ago. Which was written by a pastor named Dimitru Duduman.

I also believe that Revelation chapter 18 refers to US.

Revelation 18:8 “Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her; death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.”

According to many scientists, west coast of America will encounter 9.0 magnitudes Richter scale earthquake in the coming twenty years.

Apart from that, it was mentioned in the movie <2012> that Yellow Stone is a super volcano, if it erupted a third to two third of the sky of the US will cover by volcanic ash. And within one day, Russia and China will use nuclear missile to attack the US.
Get a life and stop wasting your life on such foolishness. This WORLD and all things therein will pass away with a great sound and all things therein shall melt with fervent heat~this includes ALL NATIONS that makes up Babylon, that great city of the beast headed up by the devil himself. 

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #3 on: Wed Nov 23, 2016 - 15:54:03 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline idono

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #4 on: Wed Nov 23, 2016 - 19:51:40 »
I have another reason here, Revelation 18:3 "the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."

US is the world's largest debtor with Federal Government's liabilities nearly $20 trillion (excluding state and local government's debts). US trade deficit has been a huge trade deficit for decades, from 1970s until now, and a very big portions of trade deficit with China. As Revelation 17:16 mentioned "The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire."

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #4 on: Wed Nov 23, 2016 - 19:51:40 »



Offline RB

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #5 on: Thu Nov 24, 2016 - 04:38:20 »
I have another reason here, Revelation 18:3 "the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."
You have so far proved not one thing, other than you do not understand WHO is Mystery Babylon, that great city. UNTIL you can prove by using the scriptures who is Mystery Babylon, you will always be guessing and assuming who is Babylon that the scriptures speak of. I will give you a very strong hint and if you would start THERE and from there working your way through the prophets, then you will see WHO is Babylon in the word of God.
Quote
Isaiah 13:1-16~"The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see. Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle. They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."
God gives us ENOUGH light for us to SEE who is the Babylon that he is having Isaiah prophesied AGAINST. This Babylon is a MYSTERY hidden in the scriptures, yet revealed to the sincere seeker of truth. Mystery, Babylon, the GREAT is THIS anti-world system that hates and rejects the God of heaven for their own wisdom and lust of their wicked flesh. It is plain that Isaiah using Babylon of old spoke diretly concerning the wrath that is coming upon THIS WORLD OF SINNERS. Twist it, and reject it if you will, but the truth is not going to change, or go away, it will surely come to pass JUST as God spoke through his servant Isaiah.

I will add this one thing more: your very quote proves you wrong, listen carefully to what you said:
Quote
I have another reason here, Revelation 18:3 "the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."
America is PART of this world that are growing RICH,  MORE SO than any other nation, even with her great debt. Your point is disproved by the very scripture that you gave!
« Last Edit: Thu Nov 24, 2016 - 04:44:53 by RB »

Offline delade3

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #6 on: Sun Nov 27, 2016 - 21:48:07 »
“America will burn” is a head title of an article that I read many years ago. Which was written by a pastor named Dimitru Duduman.

I also believe that Revelation chapter 18 refers to US.

Revelation 18:8 “Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her; death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.”

According to many scientists, west coast of America will encounter 9.0 magnitudes Richter scale earthquake in the coming twenty years.

Apart from that, it was mentioned in the movie <2012> that Yellow Stone is a super volcano, if it erupted a third to two third of the sky of the US will cover by volcanic ash. And within one day, Russia and China will use nuclear missile to attack the US.

Also keep in mind Revelation 18:17 says: "How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow."

Who is this 'she'? The queen of babylon..  Revelation 18:3-4  “For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

And what is her 'sin'?    Revelation 17:5 "“And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”   
 

Offline delade3

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #7 on: Sun Nov 27, 2016 - 21:52:42 »
And so what are the plagues she is to receive?   Revelation 15:1 "“And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.”

Revelation 15:8  "“And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.”

Revelation 16:9  "“And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.”

Revelation 18:4  "“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”


What are 'her sins?'  Fornication, harlotry, abominations, wickedness, mysteries.


Offline raggthyme13

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #8 on: Tue Nov 29, 2016 - 03:15:57 »
I'm thinking Mystery Babylon was Jerusalem. Jesus said the blood of the prophets was on her hands, just like it says in Revelation. She was also judged for rejecting and killing God's own Son. She was given time to repent, but she did not.

Offline idono

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #9 on: Tue Nov 29, 2016 - 21:08:44 »
Mystery Babylon is not refers to Jerusalem. Jesus will reign from Jerusalem with a thousand years, but in Revelation 18:21 mentioned Babylon will be thrown down and never to be found again.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #10 on: Tue Nov 29, 2016 - 23:56:18 »
idono  -  Mystery Babylon is not America.  Neither is it the entire world of sinners from creation onward.  It is a single city.  The interpreting angel defines Mystery Babylon for us quite clearly.  In Rev. 17:18 he tells John that "...the woman which thou sawest is THAT GREAT CITY, WHICH REIGNETH OVER THE KINGS OF THE EARTH.  Who are these "kings of the earth"?  Christ Himself tells us who they are in Matthew 17:25.  They are the HIGH PRIESTS OF ISRAEL, not the emperors, presidents, dictators, monarchs, or any other type of governmental entity in this world.   There are manifold other references throughout scripture calling the high priests by the name of "king", if you need further evidence.  And "earth" is a term used many, many times for the land of Israel itself throughout scripture, and other times meaning the entire globe. 

Israel was always called a "kingdom of priests" from antiquity.  See Exodus 19:6, "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation...."  The high priest's garments included a crown upon his forehead with "Holiness to the Lord" engraved on it.  That is why Mystery Babylon, the harlot, has her title written in her forehead, in a mocking, wicked parody of the high priest's crown.  "Mother of harlots" and "Mother of abominations" are her titles.  This is exactly the way Isaiah described Jerusalem in Is. 1:21, "How is the faithful city become a harlot!"  And further on in Is. 57:3, he gives a scathing rebuke to Israel's leaders, "But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the whore." 

The prophet Jeremiah also addressed Jerusalem with terms quite similar to those found on Mystery Babylon's forehead.  See Jer. 13:27, "I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom and thine abominations on the hills in the fields.  Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?"  This was prior to the Babylonian invasion when the city of Jerusalem was made desolate, causing its first death.  Rev. 18 shows Jerusalem/Mystery Babylon's desolation leading to its second death under the Roman invasion.  John simply draws on these expressions of OT imagery for his Revelation description of Jerusalem.

You should let Revelation itself tell you who "THAT GREAT CITY" is.  You need look no further than Rev. 11:8, "And their dead bodies (the two witnesses) shall lie in the street of THE GREAT CITY, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified (Jerusalem)".

Mystery Babylon, (not America), was guilty of murdering the apostles, prophets, and saints, as raggthyme13 has already correctly pointed out.  Rev. 18:20-24 has heaven rejoicing at the vengeance of God being poured out on THAT GREAT CITY BABYLON for murdering the holy apostles, prophets, saints, and all that were slain upon the earth (ge - the land of Israel).  Christ had already pronounced a coming judgment on Jerusalem and its religious leaders of that generation in Matthew 23:34-37 for killing the prophets sent to her, as well as all the righteous blood shed from Abel until that generation (including His own crucifixion).

When Mystery Babylon is overthrown, most of the merchandise listed in Rev. 18:12-16 is that which was typically used in the temple ceremonies and for the priestly vestments.  The "light of a lamp" (the temple Menorah) would shine no more at all in her after her overthrow.  Don't imagine that this is the Statue of Liberty's lamp being put out.

It's true that America as a nation has its own accumulation of sins that will eventually come into judgment, since "whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap".   It's just that Revelation is not where you will find the details of this judgment.
« Last Edit: Fri Dec 02, 2016 - 21:36:07 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline idono

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #11 on: Thu Dec 08, 2016 - 20:34:12 »
Magnitude 6.5 earthquake strikes off coast California is just a small piece of cake, the worst is yet to come.

Offline notreligus

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #12 on: Fri Dec 09, 2016 - 10:32:18 »
From the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (as included with eSword):

Babylon in the New Testament:
Babylon Βαβυλῶν, Babulō̇n, is used in New Testament in at least two different senses:

1. Mesopotamian Babylon
In Mat_1:11, Mat_1:12, Mat_1:17; Act_7:43 the old Mesop city is plainly meant. These all refer to the captivity in Babylon and do not demand any further discussion.

2. Symbolic Sense
All the references to Babylon in Rev are evidently symbolic. Some of the most important passages are Rev_14:8; Rev_16:19; Rev_17:5; Rev_18:2, Rev_18:10, Rev_18:21. In Rev_17:5 Babylon is designated as mustḗrioň. This undoubtedly in dicates that the name is to be under stood figuratively. A few interpreters have believed that Jerusalem was the city that was designated as Babylon, but most scholars hold that Rome was the city that was meant. That interpretation goes back at least to the time of Tertullian (Adv. Marc., iii. 13). This interpretation was adopted by Jerome and Augustine and has been commonly accepted by the church. There are some striking facts which point to Rome as the city that is designated as Babylon.

(1) The characteristics ascribed to this Babylon apply to Rome rather than to any other city of that age: (a) as ruling over the kings of the earth (Rev_17:18); (b) as sitting on seven mountains (Rev_17:9); (c) as the center of the world's merchandise (Rev_18:3, Rev_18:11-13); (d) as the corrupter of the nations (Rev_17:2; Rev_18:3; Rev_19:2); (e) as the persecutor of the saints (Rev_17:6).
(2) Rome is designated as Babylon in the Sibylline Oracles (5 143), and this is perhaps an early Jewish portion of the book. The comparison of Rome to Babylon is common in Jewish apocalyptic literature (see 2 Esdras and the Apocrypha Baruch).
(3) Rome was regarded by both Jews and Christians as being antagonistic to the kingdom of God, and its downfall was confidently expected, This conception is in accord with the predicted downfall of Babylon (Rev_14:8; Rev_18:2, Rev_18:10-21). As Babylon had been the oppressor of Israel, it was natural that this new power, which was oppressing the people of God, should be designated as Babylon.

3. In 1 Peter. 
In 1Pe_5:13 Babylon is designated as the place from which 1 Pet was written. Down to the time of the Reformation this was generally under stood to mean Rome, and two cursives added “en Roma.” Since the Reformation, many scholars have followed Erasmus and Calvin and have urged that the Mesopotamian Babylon is meant. Three theories should be noted:

(1) That the Egyptian Babylon, or Old Cairo; is meant. Strabo (XVII, 807) who wrote as late as 18 ad, says the Egyptian Babylon was a strong fortress founded by certain refugees from the Mesop Babylon. But during the 1st century this was not much more than a military station, and it is quite improbable that Peter would have gone there. There is no tradition that connects Peter' in any way with Egypt.

(2) That the statement is to be taken literally and that the Mesop Babylon is meant. Many good scholars hold to this view, and among these are Weiss and Thayer, but there is no evidence that Peter was ever in Babylon, or that there was even a church there during the 1st century. Mark and Silvanus are associated with Peter in the letter and there is no tradition that connects either of them with Babylon. According to Josephus (Ant, XVIII, ix, 5-9), the Jews at this time had largely been driven out of Babylon and were confined to neighboring towns, and it seems improbable that Peter would have made that his missionary field.

(3) That Rome was the city that was designated as Babylon. The Apocalypse would indicate that the churches would understand the symbolic reference, and it seems to have been so understood until the time of the Reformation. The denial of this position was in line with the effort to refute Peter's supposed connection with the Roman church. Ancient tradition, however, makes it seem quite probable that Peter did make a visit to Rome (see Lightfoot, Clement, II, 493ff).

Internal evidence helps to substantiate theory that Rome was the place from which the letter was written. Mark sends greetings (1 Pet Mar_15:13), and we know he had been summoned to Rome by the apostle Paul (2Ti_4:11). The whole passage, “She that is in Babylon, elect together with you, saluteth you,” seems to be figurative, and that being true, it is natural that Babylon should have been used instead of Rome. The character of the letter as a whole would point to Rome as the place of writing. Ramsay thinks this book is impregnated with Roman thought beyond any other book in the Bible (see The Church in the Roman Empire, 286).

Offline raggthyme13

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #13 on: Sat Dec 10, 2016 - 05:31:08 »
From the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (as included with eSword):

Babylon in the New Testament:
Babylon Βαβυλῶν, Babulō̇n, is used in New Testament in at least two different senses:

1. Mesopotamian Babylon
In Mat_1:11, Mat_1:12, Mat_1:17; Act_7:43 the old Mesop city is plainly meant. These all refer to the captivity in Babylon and do not demand any further discussion.

2. Symbolic Sense
All the references to Babylon in Rev are evidently symbolic. Some of the most important passages are Rev_14:8; Rev_16:19; Rev_17:5; Rev_18:2, Rev_18:10, Rev_18:21. In Rev_17:5 Babylon is designated as mustḗrioň. This undoubtedly in dicates that the name is to be under stood figuratively. A few interpreters have believed that Jerusalem was the city that was designated as Babylon, but most scholars hold that Rome was the city that was meant. That interpretation goes back at least to the time of Tertullian (Adv. Marc., iii. 13). This interpretation was adopted by Jerome and Augustine and has been commonly accepted by the church. There are some striking facts which point to Rome as the city that is designated as Babylon.

(1) The characteristics ascribed to this Babylon apply to Rome rather than to any other city of that age: (a) as ruling over the kings of the earth (Rev_17:18); (b) as sitting on seven mountains (Rev_17:9); (c) as the center of the world's merchandise (Rev_18:3, Rev_18:11-13); (d) as the corrupter of the nations (Rev_17:2; Rev_18:3; Rev_19:2); (e) as the persecutor of the saints (Rev_17:6).
(2) Rome is designated as Babylon in the Sibylline Oracles (5 143), and this is perhaps an early Jewish portion of the book. The comparison of Rome to Babylon is common in Jewish apocalyptic literature (see 2 Esdras and the Apocrypha Baruch).
(3) Rome was regarded by both Jews and Christians as being antagonistic to the kingdom of God, and its downfall was confidently expected, This conception is in accord with the predicted downfall of Babylon (Rev_14:8; Rev_18:2, Rev_18:10-21). As Babylon had been the oppressor of Israel, it was natural that this new power, which was oppressing the people of God, should be designated as Babylon.

3. In 1 Peter. 
In 1Pe_5:13 Babylon is designated as the place from which 1 Pet was written. Down to the time of the Reformation this was generally under stood to mean Rome, and two cursives added “en Roma.” Since the Reformation, many scholars have followed Erasmus and Calvin and have urged that the Mesopotamian Babylon is meant. Three theories should be noted:

(1) That the Egyptian Babylon, or Old Cairo; is meant. Strabo (XVII, 807) who wrote as late as 18 ad, says the Egyptian Babylon was a strong fortress founded by certain refugees from the Mesop Babylon. But during the 1st century this was not much more than a military station, and it is quite improbable that Peter would have gone there. There is no tradition that connects Peter' in any way with Egypt.

(2) That the statement is to be taken literally and that the Mesop Babylon is meant. Many good scholars hold to this view, and among these are Weiss and Thayer, but there is no evidence that Peter was ever in Babylon, or that there was even a church there during the 1st century. Mark and Silvanus are associated with Peter in the letter and there is no tradition that connects either of them with Babylon. According to Josephus (Ant, XVIII, ix, 5-9), the Jews at this time had largely been driven out of Babylon and were confined to neighboring towns, and it seems improbable that Peter would have made that his missionary field.

(3) That Rome was the city that was designated as Babylon. The Apocalypse would indicate that the churches would understand the symbolic reference, and it seems to have been so understood until the time of the Reformation. The denial of this position was in line with the effort to refute Peter's supposed connection with the Roman church. Ancient tradition, however, makes it seem quite probable that Peter did make a visit to Rome (see Lightfoot, Clement, II, 493ff).

Internal evidence helps to substantiate theory that Rome was the place from which the letter was written. Mark sends greetings (1 Pet Mar_15:13), and we know he had been summoned to Rome by the apostle Paul (2Ti_4:11). The whole passage, “She that is in Babylon, elect together with you, saluteth you,” seems to be figurative, and that being true, it is natural that Babylon should have been used instead of Rome. The character of the letter as a whole would point to Rome as the place of writing. Ramsay thinks this book is impregnated with Roman thought beyond any other book in the Bible (see The Church in the Roman Empire, 286).

I find this an interesting interpretation. I'm not opposed to the idea as much as confused how Rome fulfills Rev 17:6. It was the Lord himself who proclaimed that blood was upon Jerusalem. They were shown plainly to be the children of their fathers who killed the prophets as they were seeking to kill God's own Son.

Offline GodsVoice

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #14 on: Mon Dec 12, 2016 - 14:16:28 »
Here's what was promised to happen right after the Gospel of God was finished to end the 1,000 year reign of Christ which was the revealing of all the invisible things that make Life happen.

Matthew 24
14: And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.

Isaiah 24
18: He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
19: The earth is utterly broken, the earth is rent asunder, the earth is violently shaken.
20: The earth staggers like a drunken man, it sways like a hut; its transgression lies heavy upon it, and it falls, and will not rise again.

Ezekiel 38
19: For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20: the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.
 
2 Peter 3
1: This is now the second letter that I have written to you, beloved, and in both of them I have aroused your sincere mind by way of reminder;              2: that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.                       3: First of all you must understand this, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own passions                                         4: and saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation.”                                                                                               5: They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by means of water,              6: through which the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.                                                                                                    7: But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.                                                                                             8: But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.                                        9: The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.                                                                                      10: But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.
11: Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
12: waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!
13: But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Revelation 21
1: Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
8: But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #15 on: Mon Dec 26, 2016 - 14:14:34 »
There is a problem that arises when Rome is proposed for Mystery Babylon's identity (because most presume that the 7 mountains that "Babylon" sits on in Rev. 17:9 are the 7 mountains of Rome).

ROME WAS NEVER IN A POSITION OF COVENANT RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.  Rome could not have been pictured as a harlot, adulterously unfaithful to a covenant, if she was never in a covenant with God to begin with.  The same holds true if America is proposed as Mystery Babylon's identity.

JERUSALEM, on the other hand, (who also sits upon her own set of 7 mountains), WAS IN A COVENANT POSITION WITH GOD.  In Jeremiah 3:14, God claims to have been "married" to her.  This symbolism of being "married" to His people is further enhanced when God's very name was given to them as part of their identity.  See Daniel 9:19, ".....for thy city (Jerusalem) and thy people are called by thy name." 

This was especially brought out when Solomon's temple was dedicated.  In II Chron. 7:16, God appeared to Solomon by night and promised him, "For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name might be there forever."  This "forever" promise was conditional, depending on Solomon's and the people's faithfulness, as shown in the next verses, II Chron. 7:19-22, "But if ye turn away and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them; Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb, and a byword among all nations..."

This promised "casting out" of the temple occurred for the first time in 586 BC with the Babylonian invasion (Jerusalem's first death under the Old Covenant).  It would happen a second and final time after the Roman invasion in AD 70 (Jerusalem's Second Death, as conclusive proof that the Old Covenant had been closed out).  Before her first death in 586 BC, Jerusalem was called a harlot for her unfaithfulness to God in Isaiah 1:21a, "How is the faithful city become an harlot!"  The prophet Jeremiah shares in giving Jerusalem the title of a harlot in Jer. 3:1,3, "...Thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed."  After Jerusalem's first death at the hands of the Babylonians, the prophet Jeremiah mourned over her in Lam. 1:1, "How doth the city sit solitary that was full of people!  How is she become as a widow!  She that was great among the nations (that great city), and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary!"

This descriptive language referring to Jeremiah's Jerusalem is duplicated in Mystery Babylon / Jerusalem's boast of her own superiority in Rev. 18:7, "How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow."  This is Jerusalem's total denial that she had orchestrated the death of her own husband, Christ the Messiah. 

When the religious leaders called out "His blood be on us and our children" at  Christ's trial before Pontius Pilate, they voluntarily took upon their first-century generation the guilt for shedding the blood of Christ.  Consequently, they also incurred the guilt for the righteous blood of all those IN CHRIST who had been slain on the earth since Abel.  In a vicarious sense, if you are guilty of killing the Representative, you are also guilty of killing all those whom He represents.  This is why Christ could prophetically call down a judgment of desolation on Jerusalem in Matthew 23:34-38 for their killing the prophets, and stoning those sent to her.  "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel, unto the blood of Zecharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."

Mystery Babylon / Jerusalem is given this identical indictment in Rev. 18:24, "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that were slain on the earth".  Even the martyr Stephen, just minutes before his being stoned, threw this accusation against the religious leaders of Jerusalem that stood in front of him.  "Which of the prophets have NOT your fathers persecuted?  and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and the murderers" (Acts 7:52).   Vengeance for offenses has always been the prerogative that God claims for Himself.  "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord."  In AD 70, He exercised His right to pass judgment, and the city of Jerusalem and her children were the recipients of this vengeance.

On a side note, the reference in I Peter 5:13 to "she in Babylon salutes you" cannot be presumed to be the city of Rome in question.   All it means is that Peter, who had been one of the main representatives of the church at Jerusalem, was passing along a greeting from her to other churches.  He did not even have to be IN "Babylon" to do this, either, if he was simply acting as a liaison to pass greetings between churches.   Peter was copying the way John spoke of Mystery Babylon as Jerusalem, (since Revelation was written just before AD 60, and I Peter was written later about AD 63).  He referred to Jerusalem as "Babylon", duplicating the same cryptic language as John's, in case his letter should fall into the wrong hands and bring additional difficulties to the assemblies of Christ. 
« Last Edit: Wed Dec 28, 2016 - 13:25:14 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline GodsVoice

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #16 on: Mon Dec 26, 2016 - 14:47:01 »
The symbolic name "Babylon" is much bigger than Jerusalem.

Here's a hint;

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #17 on: Wed Dec 28, 2016 - 13:24:20 »
GodsVoice  -  Considering your II Peter 3:10 text about the "earth" and the works upon it being burned up.......

Actually, the first two references you gave, (II Peter 3:10 and Isaiah 66:15-16), both have surrounding contexts which detail existing conditions under the New Heavens and the New Earth.  The Isaiah 65-66 chapters particularly include a list of characteristics for the NHNE that cannot possibly be speaking of an after-life existence for the godly following the final resurrection; (i.e., people dying, having offspring, harvesting crops, praying, building their own houses, having sinners still existing in the NHNE).  Therefore, neither of these texts you supplied can be referring to the final end-of-the-world scenario.

As you may already be aware, there are different Greek terms used to distinguish between the "earth" and the "world".   In scripture, the "earth" (ge) is usually, but not always, used in a more local sense to refer to the Promised Land.  The "world" (kosmos) is usually, but not always, used to refer to something on a more universal, global scale.   In Revelation, John uses the term "ge" (for earth) well over 60 times compared to his using the "kosmos" term (for world) only 3 times.  There is a reason for this.  That is because John's main focus was a local one - concentrated on the land of Judea and Jerusalem where God used John to lay out His scheduled plan for the dissolving of the Old Judaic covenant using apocalyptic language.  The "power of the holy people" would have been shattered by the end of that age, so that the New Covenant having NO ethnic distinctions in it would be the only covenant left standing.

These are the "elements" (the stoicheia) that were dissolved and burned up - the "weak and beggarly elements" under the Old Covenant system (Gal. 4:9) - not the entire periodic table of elements that material substances consist of going up in smoke, as is the assumed interpretation of the II Peter 3:10 verse.  The actual physical "works" in this verse that burned up would have been the Jerusalem temple and its trappings, as well as the inferior "works" made of wood, hay, and stubble that believers may have built upon the solid foundation of their faith (I Cor. 3:12-13).

The fuel that would be consumed in this fire was already being chopped down in the days of John the Baptist.  Speaking to the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to be baptized, John said, "But already also the axe to the root of the trees is applied; every therefore tree not producing fruit good is cut down and into the fire is cast" (Matt. 3:10 - Interlinear).  This "fire", both literal and symbolic, was the instrument God used to "thoroughly purge His floor".  (This "floor" was an allusion to the actual location of the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite where God would also use literal fire to get rid of the physical temple worship system in Jerusalem for all time.)

As John spoke these words of Matthew 3:10-12, he said that God's winnowing fan was already IN HIS HAND, which He would use to separate the wheat from the chaff.  This chaff would be burned up with unquenchable fire at the same time the wheat was gathered.  We have another prophecy of this same conflagration in Malachi 4 where John the Baptist (as Elijah) would be sent prior to the "Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord" - a "day that would burn as an oven", when the "stubble" would be burned up and turned to ashes underfoot.

Since this event is linked together with the time of John the Baptist's ministry, it ties the fulfillment of the "Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord" to that first-century generation, with a judgment concentrated  predominantly on the land of Judea as its primary focus.  Jesus Himself admitted that one of the main purposes for His coming was to bring this purifying fire.  In the context of the Luke 12 lessons given to the disciples about His anticipated return, Jesus told them, "I am come to send fire on the earth (tes ges - the land of Israel); and what will I if it be already kindled?"  Jesus was not only predicting that He would bring this fire to judge the earth (land of Israel) - He was wishing that the fire had already been kindled.  This doesn't match with the idea that Christ would be waiting more than 2,000 years plus into our time before He got around to sending fire on the earth.

And considering the last reference you gave from Zephaniah 1:18, you are misapplying a prophecy that was intended for a near fulfillment in that prophet's days.  In Zephaniah 1:14 it claims, "The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly..."  Zephaniah's prophecy anticipated the soon-to-occur 612 BC destruction of Nineveh and the Assyrian kingdom (Zeph. 2:12) and the captivity and multiple dispersions of God's people under the Babylonians.  God would put all the nations He mentioned in Zephaniah under submission to Nebuchadnezzar, the head of gold on Daniel's statue.  God's people were not exempt from this, and are included among the "inhabitants of the earth" that would suffer under this "Day-of-the-Lord" judgment of God for their idolatry.  In Zephaniah, you are looking at a prophecy that predicted Jerusalem's First Death in 586 BC, and her revival in the post-exilic return of the remnant (Zeph. 3:19-20).

   





Offline AstridK

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #18 on: Mon Jan 09, 2017 - 23:29:29 »
From what I have been hearing and reading, (when I say hearing and reading, I mean people who are having prophetic dreams and posting them online plus other online resources) there will be at least three major natural disasters affecting the US. One will be a tsunami that will hit the entire east coast. New York will end up under water. The tail of Florida will end up permanently under water. 22 million people are supposed to die in this disaster. There is a possibility that a volcano off the west coast of Africa called Cumbre Vieja will erupt, break apart and fall into the Atlantic Ocean which will spawn the massive tsunami. Scientists have talked about it. This reminds me of this: Rev. 8:8 "The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood"

Then there is supposed to be a series of earthquakes that cause much of the west coast to break up and fall into the Pacific. This is actually supposed to be worse than the east coast.

Then there is supposed to be earthquakes that rip down the middle of the country causing a chasm to open in the earth and water flows into it creating a river very quickly. It will be like drawing a line down the center of the country and will create an obstacle for travel between the eastern section of the country and the western section. The eastern section is supposed to be worse to live in than the west. I think it's because there are much less people in the west and possibly more resources to go around because of that. There is supposed to be much anarchy.

If this actually happens, it sounds very strategic and deliberate to me.

« Last Edit: Mon Jan 09, 2017 - 23:31:39 by AstridK »

Offline dpr

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #19 on: Thu Feb 09, 2017 - 10:03:39 »
“America will burn” is a head title of an article that I read many years ago. Which was written by a pastor named Dimitru Duduman.

I also believe that Revelation chapter 18 refers to US.

Revelation 18:8 “Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her; death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.”

According to many scientists, west coast of America will encounter 9.0 magnitudes Richter scale earthquake in the coming twenty years.

Apart from that, it was mentioned in the movie <2012> that Yellow Stone is a super volcano, if it erupted a third to two third of the sky of the US will cover by volcanic ash. And within one day, Russia and China will use nuclear missile to attack the US.

That's just another of several anti-Western slurs by some freak living either outside the western nations, or some Communist leaning socialist that lives in the west. The Babylon Harlot whore of Revelation is a city per the end of Revelation 17; it will be Jerusalem which is where the pseudo-Christ is to appear.


Offline AstridK

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #20 on: Sun Mar 05, 2017 - 00:23:21 »
I would like to throw in my two cents about this. I think Mystery Babylon is about America. Maybe it’s a narcissistic patriotism but just with descriptions like:

“One of the seven angels who had poured out the seven bowls came over and spoke to me. 'Come with me,' he said, 'and I will show you the judgment that is going to come on the great prostitute, who rules over many waters. The kings of the world have committed adultery with her, and the people who belong to this world have been made drunk by the wine of her immorality.'" Revelation 17:1-2 (NLT)

“And the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.” (Rev. 18:3)

“How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.” (Rev. 18:7)

“And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.” (Rev. 18:11–13)

Sorry, but that’s just us. Anyway, the reason I wanted to post something here is that I wanted to provide some information that is more understandable for the time we live in. These passages, even though they are God’s word, they pretty much make you feel (as an American) that God MUST hate us or something. I mean, doesn’t he see all the good many Americans do? Well, yeah, he does so why all the wrath talking in the bible about America? It’s complicated. Contrary to what we will soon be experiencing and feeling, God doesn’t hate us (which it’s certainly going to feel that way). But that doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem. What is about to happen, cataclysmic as it will be, he is correcting us-like a parent. He is trying to destroy what is holding humanity back-arrogance, selfishness, apathy and greed.

So I have been researching stuff about end times but I tried finding different sources of information other than this to go along with anything biblical (as long as it still fits with bible prophecy). Did you guys know that the Hopi Indians have had end times prophecies within their culture for a long time? The Hopis have been given prophecy by God about this for hundreds of years. Their people were told about the end of America a long time ago and have passed those prophecies along from one generation to the next all that time. Nowadays, there are Hopi (and other Native American) elders who are coming out and talking about a coming “Purification period” that will greatly affect America.

“The war will be "a spiritual conflict with material matters. Material matters will be destroyed by spiritual beings who will remain to create one world and one nation under one power, that of the Creator.”

“The United States will be destroyed, land and people, by atomic bombs and radioactivity. Only the Hopis and their homeland will be preserved as an oasis to which refugees will flee. Bomb shelters are a fallacy. "It is only materialistic people who seek to make shelters. Those who are at peace in their hearts already are in the great shelter of life. There is no shelter for evil. Those who take no part in the making of world division by ideology are ready to resume life in another world, be they Black, White, Red, or Yellow race. They are all one, brothers."

I also went looking into the near death experiences that some people have had. I found this site which is a pretty comprehensive site about all things NDE.
There’s a section called “The Future” and in it, it talks a lot about things that are coming for America and the world and not just what happens soon but what happens when it’s all over. Something like 2/3s of the world’s population is supposed to die in the coming Tribulation. That means 1/3 survives which is about 2.66 billion people. I would like to post some of the content on that section:

These are things told to some NDEers.

"During my experience ... I was also shown events that are likely to happen in the near future, but was made to understand that nothing is absolutely fixed and that everything depends on how we choose to use our own free will, that even those events that are already predestined can be changed or modified by a change in our own way of relating to them." (Grey, 1985, p. 123)

"We have free will. If we change the way we are, then we can change the future which they showed me. They showed me a view of the future, at the time of my experience, based upon how we in the United States were behaving at that time. It was a future in which a massive worldwide depression would occur. If we were to change our behavior, however, then the future would be different." (Howard Storm)

All it takes to make a change was one person. One person, trying, and then because of that, another person changing for the better. They said that the only way to change the world was to begin with one person. One will become two, which will become three, and so on. That's the only way to affect a major change" (Howard Storm)

"The quickest way to change the world is to be of service to others. Show that your love can make a difference in the lives of people and thereby someone else's love can make a difference in your life. By each of us doing that and working together we change the world one inner person at a time." (Dannion Brinkley)

"I was told that the world could be saved, not by its leaders, but by prayer groups throughout the world. I was told that the prayers of a group of twenty could save a nation from war. I was told that the fate of mankind rested on our ability, individually and collectively, to change the direction of mankind in accordance with God's plan ... Depending on mankind's response to God, these events may be altered, postponed, or cancelled." (Ned Dougherty)

"... take time before this date to personally examine our own lives and priorities as citizens of earth in this time of transition. This is a wake-up call ... For it is only as we are willing to see and to embrace all of our deeply human fragmented realities that the light of grace can shine upon us." (Dannion Brinkley)


Some prophecies by NDEer Howard Storm about America:
“The United States has been given the opportunity to be the teacher for the world, but much is expected of those to whom much has been given. The United States has been given more of everything than any country in the history of the world and it has failed to be generous with the gifts. If the United States continues to exploit the rest of the world by greedily consuming the world's resources, the United States will have God's blessing withdrawn. Your country will collapse economically which will result in civil chaos. Because of the greedy nature of the people, you will have people killing people for a cup of gasoline. The world will watch in horror as your country is obliterated by strife. The rest of the world will not intervene because they have been victims of your exploitation. They will welcome the annihilation of such selfish people. The United States must change immediately and become the teachers of goodness and generosity to the rest of the world. Today the United States is the primary merchant of war and the culture of violence that you export to the world. This will come to an end because you have the seeds of your own destruction within you. Either you will destroy yourselves or God will bring it to an end if there isn't a change.”

“They made it very clear to me that God had given this country the greatest blessing of any people in the history of the world. We have more of God's blessing. Everything that we have comes from God. We didn't deserve it, we didn't earn it, but we happen to be the wealthiest, most powerful nation in the world. And God gave us all this so that we could be the instruments of God's light in this world, and we are not instruments of light. In other countries people see us as purveyors of exploitation, military might, and pornography. They see us as completely hedonistic and amoral -- we have no morality. People can do whatever they want wherever they want with whatever they want. Our amorality is a cancer on the rest of the world, and God created us to be just the opposite.”






"People get mad at me for saying it, but God is very unhappy with what we're doing. When I came back from the experience I was almost out of my mind trying to convert people. God wanted a worldwide conversion thousands of years ago. God pulled out all the stops 2,000 years ago with Jesus. From God's view, that was the definitive moment in human history. And the impact of the prophets and teachers and the Messiah has been a big disappointment to God because people have by and large rejected it. I was told that God wants this conversion. And if we don't get with the program fairly soon, He is going to have to intervene in some ways that from a human point of view are going to seem cataclysmic. God is really tired of what we're doing to one another and the planet and to His Creation. We were put in this world to be stewards and live in harmony with His creation and one another and we don't realize the important spiritual consequences of what we do when we raise a child in a faithless society."

"I asked how [America's purification] would come about, and they said it would be simple, that our society is very dependent on a lot of very fragile things -- energy grid, transportation. In each geographical area of the United States people used to be relatively self-sufficient as far as agricultural products. Now, how long would any state survive without the transport of food and energy?”

"What would happen is these very complex and delicate grids of our economic system would begin to break down. We've created a society of such cruel and self-centered people that the very nature of civilization would begin to break down. The angels showed me that what would happen is that people would begin robbing the grocery stores, hording goods, and killing one another for gasoline and tires, and as a consequence everything would break down and would end up in chaos."


This is an important prophecy given to NDEer Guenter Wagner when he died as a child:
“Jesus told Guenter that there were very powerful and cunning beings who were his enemies with whom he had been constantly fighting. He told Guenter to warn the world against them. Then Jesus told him to turn around. When he did he heard people screaming and saw fire and smoke that gradually took on the shape of a mushroom. Jesus told Guenter that he will do everything in his power to prevent this from happening. Jesus also told him that this war has been going on for a very long time and the evil beings had become more and more powerful. Jesus said that if this continued he would not see any means of preventing them from taking over everything. He said that if the enemy had really succeeded in coming into his world, the war would have been lost. He would have been powerful enough, no doubt, to fight them off, but the war would have been lost in the long run. Jesus was afraid of loosing this war. Then it was intimated to Guenter that Jesus needed help. Jesus told him that the only way he could help him was by going back and telling the world about his experience.”

This is an important prophecy because Jesus told him that he would do everything he could to prevent nuclear war which means that God would not be a participant in the use of nuclear weapons against anyone. He may manipulate the environment in the way he did with the flood (or in what some people who are posting online about prophectic dreams they are having of major natural disasters set to hit the U.S. soon) but he does not hurl nuclear bombs at anyone. THIS IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW because the use of nuclear missiles is particularly sadistic and it is important to know that the use of them is NOT a part of God‘s judgment.  Much of what is said on this page is very useful to read. It gives a much more rational perception as to what will be happening in the world soon. The top half of the page states much distressing messages about the coming Tribulation but as you read down to the end of the page, it also talks a great deal of all of the good that follows. Some of the visions of the future are amazing. I’d advise everyone to take a little time to read it.











« Last Edit: Sun Mar 05, 2017 - 01:46:22 by Alan »

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #21 on: Sun Mar 05, 2017 - 00:58:40 »
AstridK, please stick with the bible for prophecies & prophets. Move outside of the Bible & you will be easily led down a confusing path, especially by folks who say things like "God wanted a worldwide conversion thousands of years ago. God pulled out all the stops 2,000 years ago with Jesus. From God's view, that was the definitive moment in human history. And the impact of the prophets and teachers and the Messiah has been a big disappointment to God because people have by and large rejected it." which you quoted above.


This specific statement is absolutely horrible - "the Messiah has been a big disappointment to God" - Nothing is further than the Truth.


Jesus Christ has accomplished all that God has planned & everything is still going as planned. In His Son, God is 'well pleased'.


 

Offline AstridK

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #22 on: Tue Mar 14, 2017 - 11:33:13 »
The quote doesn't say that the Messiah is a big disappointment to God. It says "the impact of the prophets and teachers and the Messiah has been a big disappointment to God". This means that God wanted people to embrace Jesus's principles and beliefs. He wanted us to live like Jesus instructed us to and while many many people have become Christian and have embraced what he taught, most have not and because of this the world situation at this time is not anywhere near what it could be-what He knows it could be. I also believe that there are many Christians right now that are Christian on paper but not in their hearts and that there are people who don't identify as Christian who have more Christian centered hearts than these fake Christians.

I am not going to simply stick to biblical scripture in finding out anything I can about Armageddon. I respect the information given to people through NDEs because these people have spoken directly to God so I trust much of what they say. The bible in these matters needs to be followed of course. That is the main source but so far, I haven't seen anything in these people's accounts that conflicts with what the bible says about it. I am also very interested in Hopi prophecies about Armageddon because they were given God-given prophecies hundreds of years ago and the things they were told, the signs they were instructed to notice in end times, they are seeing those signs right now. As far as the information coming from Native Americans, I don't believe that God only reveals Himself to one sect of people on earth.

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #23 on: Tue Mar 14, 2017 - 15:43:49 »
The quote doesn't say that the Messiah is a big disappointment to God. It says "the impact of the prophets and teachers and the Messiah has been a big disappointment to God".

It still means the exact same thing.
It is saying Jesus is a failure.
It is a lie.

I am not going to simply stick to biblical scripture in finding out anything I can about Armageddon
You'll not find any real answers by not trusting the scriptures.

When you say Armageddon, you mean the end.

Just read your Bible honestly, no need for convoluted theories of men. It is as Jesus & the Apostles say.

Jesus returns at the last day.
The lost face final destruction.
Heavens & earth are destroyed.
Those in Christ are brought to the new creation, the new heavens & new earth.

Eternal death for the wicked . Eternal life for the children of God.


Jesus is coming back, live each day like today is that day.


If you are not saved I'd suggest prayefully reading the four Gospels in the Bible, preferably the King James. Keeping prayerfully reading them until you understand what Jesus has done.

I say this because you basically said;
I don't believe...

Offline jeager

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #24 on: Thu Mar 16, 2017 - 20:26:38 »
"Mystery Babylon is a CHURCH: In the Bible a WOMAN symbolizes a CHURCH. This is an extremely important point that must absolutely not be overlooked as it proves beyond all shadow of a doubt that this “WOMAN” with mystery Babylon written upon HER head and riding a Beast (Kingdom) has to be a “Church.” Below are several scriptures that prove this is undeniable fact. The only question that then remains is which Church? Note that an unfaithful Church commits spiritual adultery."

Babylon is the World wide false religion.
Not just one religion but  ALL world religions.
33,000 denominations of Christianity.
Pick the "right" one.
Then let me know what it is.
The Catholic church has been bed buddies with world governments since it's been in power.
And powerful it is.
Catholic bishops supported Hitler.
Why?
Hitler sought to exterminate the Jews with the Church turning a blind eye.
The Church also helped establish the rat line.
So call for aiding Nazi criminals to escape prosecution for war crimes and crimes
against humanity.
It wasn't only Jews that got roasted either.
Some p.o.w.'s, some Catholic Clergy, ANY Jehovah's Witness, and political enemies got
roasted also.
The Vatican turned a blind eye on the persecution of "undesirables".
Google the history of the Catholic Church and involvement with governments.
The Church was caught red handed supplying weapons to South American rebels.
Why? They were Catholic and the Church wanted Catholics in power.
Incidentally catholic with small case "c" means universal.

Catholic (term) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_term_"Catholic"
The word catholic (with lowercase c; derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning "universal"




Offline TonkaTim

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #25 on: Thu Mar 16, 2017 - 21:04:33 »
The Bible says she is a great city.

Which city?

Have you ever considered...

Revelation 18:24

"And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth."

The witness who testifies to this verse is Jesus.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets"
"in her was found the blood of prophets"
" it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"


"of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth"
"That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth"
??

Offline RB

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #26 on: Fri Mar 17, 2017 - 04:15:44 »
Babylon is the World wide false religion. Not just one religion but  ALL world religions
Mystery Babylon is a "city"~ just as Mount Zion is a city. Babylon is Satan's city that he has (within God's permissible will) created so that his children would with one consent, give their strenght unto himso that he could carry out his rebellion against the God and his children.

Babylon is like any city in this world~it has its religion, entertainments and commercial~ Bottom line, Mystery Babylon is twofold, both religious and government/commercial side. In Babylon. it is ALL RELIGIONS  that are antichrist, meaning that they preach another gospel, have another Jesus and are under another spirit, which is the spirit of the beast as he mounts up last day power to defeat the saints, and Jesus Christ, the true God. 

I have put together an 80 pages study on Mystery Babylon, and would be happy to post some of my notes as time permits...here's is part of my introduction:

18 February 2009
1 Page  OF 77

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT Revelation 17:5: By D. W. "Red" Baker; Introduction to this mystery called: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT CITY
 
As many have taken in hand to set forth what they believe the scriptures teach on the subject of, MYSTERY BABYLON; it seemed good to us, having an understanding of what Mystery Babylon is, to put it together on paper, for the understanding, comfort and protection of the saints.

We know there are sundry and divers interpretations on this subject. Only one can be right. I know that even the correct "overall" view of this subject "will still need" help to make it perfect. I am convinced that no man can give a perfect understanding of this subject without some things within his writings that could have been added or left off, or both, so that it would be free of error. We all live in a body of sin and death, and this is one of the perils of this state in which we live. Nevertheless, we are trusting our God, to enable us to be as close as we can to His truth, without misleading any of His elect away from truth and into error. We fear of perverting God's word, but that fear must not stop us from doing anything for the kingdom of God's sake. Matthew 25:24-30.
 
We ONLY want to build upon the foundation laid by our Lord and his apostles; gold, silver, precious stone; NOT, wood, hay, and stubble. Our prayer would be: That we would teach the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God has ordained before the world unto our glory. It is His hidden wisdom. May He be pleased to open this holy wisdom for us to see and behold and to glory in, to prepare our souls for what is ahead for God's saints and this world.

As one reads the many positions on Mystery Babylon, one can see why so many are confused. We will not waste any time of our readers on the many different beliefs. We have one main agenda, and that is: that we may give understanding to God's elect. We do not care for any others. Those who teach the scripture should only be concerned with feeding the sheep of the Lord Jesus Christ. Our Lord did not waste his time "laboring to feed the goats!" God ALONE regenerates his elect by His Spirit.  A teacher of the truth can do no more than to impart knowledge to those who can see and hear. Without spiritual life, one cannot see or hear. The gospel can only bring to light, life, it does NOT bring life. 2Timothy 1:10. The gospel can ONLY manifest where there is spiritual life; it has never brought life to a sinner dead in trespasses and sins. But it will manifest the evidence where the wind of God's Spirit has been. It will also manifest where it has not been. I trust one understands what I mean by that statement. Of course, the Holy Ghost is everywhere, but He does not work in all hearts the same; many He leaves to their own sinful desires, their vain imaginations, and to their foolish darkened hearts. I know well, and these very folk just named, He works through them for the good of His own good pleasure, for whatever pleasure He so desires to accomplish, that doeth he with all men, vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath.

The word Babylon is in our Bibles many times, but the number is not important, knowing how many times it is there, does not shed any light on why it is there and what it means. We want to know: What does MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT mean according to God's definition? God's word is its OWN dictionary. We MUST stay in the word of God and allow the scriptures to define its own use of words and they will. The Bible WILL interpret its own scriptures by carefully comparing them with each other and allowing them to FIT TOGETHER with each other.
 
One has well said, the Bible is a "spiritual puzzle”. The spiritual workman must labor to make the scriptures interpret each other, so one can see the truth on the subject he/she is studying.

Many are like one of my grandsons. The young lad was putting a puzzle together that I had gotten for him. He was doing fine, until he came across one that he could not make  fit where he wanted to put it; so he stood upon his feet and lifted up his leg into the air, and came down with all of his might, and slammed the piece into the place his little mind thought it went.  I said, Luke, that is not the way you do a puzzle. But many do the scriptures the same way. If it does not fit, they still force verses into their doctrine that does not fit and will never fit. A trained spiritual eye can see it so easily. For a man to have a truth on any given doctrine, all verses pro and con must work together, not against each other.

 
If we only had the Old Testament and not the New, then we would NOT know its HIDDEN meaning. It is hidden, or else, it would not be called by the name: "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT"....The book of Revelation helps us out greatly to make the connection with the Old Testament, so that, we come to a true Biblical understanding.

We must avoid denominationalism, men opinions, favors, pressure of exclusion, praises of men and other things that would hinder us from faithfully standing for the truth. No one loves standing alone among the multitudes and standing alone just to have claims of doing it. But, we must be faithful with what God has given to us and trust Him for His purpose with our life. This one thing we do know, you will never have the multitudes on the side of TRUTH, NEVER! Matthew 7:13-14

We sing the song, Babylon is fallen from Revelation 14:8 and other places in the OT.

"Hail! the day so long expected, hail! the year of full release; Zion's wall are now erected; And her watchmen publish peace. Thru our Shiloh's wide dominion, hear the trumpet loudly roar Babylon is fallen, is fallen, is fallen, Babylon is fallen to rise no more.
All her merchants stand with wonder, What is this that comes to pass? Murm'ring like the distance thunder, Crying, O alas, alas! Swell the sound, ye kings and nobles, Priest and people, rich and poor. Babylon is fallen, is fallen, is fallen, Babylon is fallen to rise no more.
Blow the trumpet in Mount Zion! Christ shall come the second time; Ruling with a rod of iron, All who now as foes combine. Babel's garments we've rejected, and our fellowship is o'er. Babylon is fallen, is fallen, is fallen, Babylon is fallen to rise no more.


THIS IS A GREAT SONG! But, who really understands WHAT they are singing?


"Thru our Shiloh's WIDE DOMINION,".........CANNOT be said to be true, UNTIL, Babylon is TRULY FALLEN. When Babylon falls to RISE NO MORE, then our Shiloh's dominion will be over ALL the earth, over every person. The knowledge of the LORD shall cover the earth, as the sea does now.

The Apostle Paul said: ".....I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the UNDERSTANDING also." 1Corinthians 14:15  We must understand WHAT we are singing WHEN we sing songs unto our God. Also, are we not teaching one another when we are singing?
 
"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; TEACHING and admonishing ONE ANOTHER in psalms and HYMNS and SPIRITUAL SONGS, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." Colossians 3:16

Yes, we are singing to the Lord at the same time. We must labor to sing with understanding to our Lord. May this paper on Mystery Babylon help God's children to do to just that. That is: have a Biblical understanding of Mystery, Babylon the great. May the Lord of heaven and earth, use it for the good of his people.
 
Without a true understanding of this subject, a part of God's truth is missing from your Bible knowledge. It may leave you or/and your loved ones unprepared for the evil days ahead and from the sorceries used by MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT! No man lives to himself, and what he believes and practices, others with him, who ever they may be, will believe and do likewise; and if in error, they will suffer the same consequences.

May we all seek to know the true meaning of MYSTERY, BABYLON THE  GREAT. Knowing the truth here and responding as a child of God should, will prepare you for that day.

How can one heed the call of the Holy Ghost, "...COME OUT of her, MY PEOPLE, that ye BE NOT partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Revelation 18:4.....if they do not know the truth concerning Mystery, Babylon the great? It is impossible! Some may think that they have never been part of it; others may think they have come out already and do not need to heed this call; but, they may very well still be part of it, yea, a big part of it! May this paper help God's elect to know the truth, that they may heed this call that is in Revelation 18:4 and many other places in the scriptures; though said a little differently, but meaning the same as the exhortation in Revelation 18:4. 

Before we start, I will promise that we will use ONLY the scriptures in presenting our understanding of this subject. If we are going to have THE TRUTH, then we MUST use the ONLY source of truth in this world: The record of God himself, that is noted for us in the "scriptures of truth"....which the angels themselves used with Daniel. "I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth:" Daniel 10:21. ANYONE who uses "EXTRA BIBLICAL" sources as a means to teach who Mystery Babylon is, is deceiving you. If they cannot use ONLY the word of God to prove their teaching, then they are using sleight and cunning craftiness that cannot stand up against the scriptures of truth.

All wise and righteous men from the day man has been upon this earth, to our Lord Jesus and his holy apostles and to this hour; have trusted in the word of God for all true history, for instruction in righteousness, for our doctrine, and for that doctrine to remain THE TRUTH, have lived by and trusted only in God's word, just as it was first given to us in our mother tongue.

We teach the scriptures to our little children that they may be wise unto salvation (in every sense that word is used from the scripture), nothing else really matters as far as this duty. (Of course, we teach them to read and other necessary things that can help them serve God and others).

"From a child thou hast know the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, (NOTHING ELSE IS) for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be PERFECT, (you need nothing else!) THROUGHLY FURNISHED unto ALL good works." 2Timothy 3:15-17

If this is not so, then may some man stand up and prove otherwise. I do not expect any man to step forth! If one does, bring ONLY the scriptures with you. Acts 17:28 does NOT qualify. One must start in the OT and from there work themselves to Revelation 17,18 BEFORE they can be sure that they have the truth concerning Mystery Babylon, I have done this in my articles that I put together back around eight years ago.
« Last Edit: Fri Mar 17, 2017 - 04:29:20 by RB »

Offline jcforever

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #27 on: Fri Mar 17, 2017 - 04:22:33 »
It's obvious you don't understand these prophecies;

Matthew 5
18: For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

Revelation 21
1: Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.


Offline RB

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #28 on: Fri Mar 17, 2017 - 04:36:20 »
It's obvious you don't understand these prophecies;

Matthew 5
18: For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

Revelation 21
1: Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.
Since you said nothing about those scriptures, I have no clue what you mean, none whatsoever. I certainly believe them within their scripture flow of the truth. Unless you are more specific then no one could respond to your negative statement.

Offline jcforever

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #29 on: Fri Mar 17, 2017 - 04:56:49 »
It isn't just America that will burn up. Read the underlined part of each prophecy to learn that everything on earth will be burned up on the day of the Lord's wrath.

Offline RB

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #30 on: Fri Mar 17, 2017 - 05:03:16 »
It isn't just America that will burn up. Read the underlined part of each prophecy to learn that everything on earth will be burned up on the day of the Lord's wrath.
You need to read reply #'s 3,5~I have never said the Babylon is America, so I have no idea what you are speaking about.

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #31 on: Fri Mar 17, 2017 - 05:40:05 »
Red, post #26 is an excellent post. Several of your posts have been excellent over the last few days.


I think we are mostly in agreement on most things. I know you rarely do not comment when I discuss the specific identity of the Great City. A big part of what I understand about that City is very much in agreement with what you understand. I just see that city as the source for all that corruption of idea & understanding that has permeated throughout our world.

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #32 on: Fri Mar 17, 2017 - 05:50:54 »
Red, post #26 is an excellent post. Several of your posts have been excellent over the last few days.


I think we are mostly in agreement on most things. I know you rarely do not comment when I discuss the specific identity of the Great City. A big part of what I understand about that City is very much in agreement with what you understand. I just see that city as the source for all that corruption of idea & understanding that has permeated throughout our world.

To go a slight bit further I must return to those same verses I was talking to dpr in those other threads, Revelation 18:20-24. Specifically this "by thy sorceries were all nations deceived" in verse 23. She is connected with the unbinding of Satan & is some of the evidence of where we are in God's timeline.

Offline jcforever

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #33 on: Fri Mar 17, 2017 - 05:52:25 »
It isn't just America that will burn up. Read the underlined part of each prophecy to learn that everything on earth will be burned up on the day of the Lord's wrath.
You need to read reply #'s 3,5~I have never said the Babylon is America, so I have no idea what you are speaking about.

That was my fault. I wasn't replying to your post. I forgot to quote instead of reply to the OP that was talking about America in the prophecy which is not true at all.

I totally understand what "Babylon" is in the prophecies of Revelation and that it will all be destroyed on the day of the Lord in one hour.

Offline RB

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Re: America will burn
« Reply #34 on: Fri Mar 17, 2017 - 09:17:40 »
It isn't just America that will burn up. Read the underlined part of each prophecy to learn that everything on earth will be burned up on the day of the Lord's wrath.
You need to read reply #'s 3,5~I have never said the Babylon is America, so I have no idea what you are speaking about.

That was my fault. I wasn't replying to your post. I forgot to quote instead of reply to the OP that was talking about America in the prophecy which is not true at all.

I totally understand what "Babylon" is in the prophecies of Revelation and that it will all be destroyed on the day of the Lord in one hour.
No problem, carry on. RB

 

     
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