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Offline LaSpino3

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Answer to 2300 days.
« on: Sun Sep 28, 2014 - 16:50:27 »
Before I get into the 2300 days of Dan.8:14, let’s examine the context of the verses that come before.

Dan.8:5, the goat with a great horn between his eyes (Alexander.)  Ver.6, He came to the ram with two horns (Medes and Persians)

Ver.7, the goat (Alexander) broke the horns of the ram (Medes and Persians) and destroyed the ram.

Ver.8, the goat became great and when he was strong, his power (horn) was broken (Alexander died.) Up from it came up 4 conspicuous ones and went to the north, south, east and west.

Ver.9, “Out of one of the 4 came a little (lesser) horn = (power) which grew exceeding great, (expanded its rule and became strong) toward the south and toward the east and toward Israel. After King Selencus defeated the other three Generals and took their land, the last being Lysimachus he consolidated Alexander’s Empire.

Alexander born 356 B.C. and died June 13, 323 B.C.

Four generals after Alexander, Selencus 1, went to the east, obtaining Syria, Babylonia, Media etc. the little horn of Dan.8:9 who waxed great.

Casander went to the West, Macedon, Thessaly, Greece;

Ptolemy went to the south, Egypt, Cyprus, etc.

Lysimachus went to the North, Thrace, Cappadocia, and the north parts of Asia Minor.

When each took their portion of their kingdoms, each became a King.

Selencus born 354   Died 280 B.C. + he consolidated Empire in 281 B.C.

Selencus 1 surnamed Nicator, the first in this line, was the son of Antiochus a distinguished officer in the service of Philip of Macedon (Alexander’s father). He was born about 358 – died 280 B.C.

Selencus was one of the conspirators against Perdiccas  and in the second partition of the provinces of Alexander the Great’s kingdom, obtained Babylonia, to which, with the aid of Antigonus, he subsequently added Susiana; but a misunderstanding with the powerful chief having arisen, Selecus called theos meaning God, took refuge in Egypt (316 B.C.) The victory gained by Ptolemy over Antigonus’s son, Demetrius at Gaza having laid open the route to the East, Seleucus returned to his satrap, (a governor of a province in ancient Persia. A satrap is a subordinate ruler, meaning protector of the dominion.) amidst the joyous congratulations of his subjects 312 B.C.

From 10/1/312, the date of Seleucus’s return to Babylon commences the era of the Seleucidce. Having next recovered Susiana he conquered Media, and extended his power to the Oxus and Indus. Of his compaign against Sandrocottus there are few details. In 306 B.C. he assumed the regal title; and four years afterwards, joined the confederacy of Ptolemy, Lysimachus, and Cassander (three other Generals in Alexander’s army) against the now formidable Antigonus.  He winning the battle of Ipsus 301 B.C. chiefly by his cavalry and elephants.  Now after Antigonus’s death, the most powerful of Alexander’s successors Seleucus obtained the largest share in the conquered kingdom, a great part of Asia Minor and the whole of Syria falling to him.

Towards the close of his reign, war broke out with Demetrius (now his father in law) and afterwards with Lysimachus king of Thrace and the other part of Asia Minor, both contests terminated in the defeat and death of his opponents, and being followed by the acquisition of the rest of Asia Minor, 281 B.C.

Seleucus was assassinated 280 B.C. by Ptolemy Ceraunus. Concerning Seleucus’s  it is said he was the most upright of Alexander’s generals. Of his consummate generalship and political talents he pursued with great zeal the plan of “Hellenizing” the East, by founding numerous Greek and Macedonian colonies in various parts of his dominions; he also built numerous cities, several of which are Antioch in Syria, and Selencia on the Tigris.

Antiochus 1 Selecus: Born 324, died 262 B.C. King of the Selecucid kingdom of ancient Syria, who ruled 292 – 280 in the East, and 280 -  262  B.C. over the whole kingdom. He consolidate his kingdom and encouraged the founding of Greek cities. After Alexanders death 

Antiochus Epiphanes born ????? died 164 B.C.

Again; the four generals of Alexander’s army. (4 notable ones.)

Selencus 1, went to the east, obtaining Syria, Babylonia, Media etc. the little horn of Dan.8:9 who waxed great.

Casander went to the West, Macedon, Thessaly, Greece;

Ptolemy went to the south, Egypt, Cyprus, etc.

Lysimachus went to the North, Thrace, Cappadocia, and the north parts of Asia Minor.

Selencus’s son, Antiochus 1 Soter born 324 Died 262. Took power after his father was assassinated in 280 or 281 B.C., 62 when he died.

Following is the geneology of the son and grand sons etc. of Selencus.

Antiochus 2, called (theos interpreted in Greek, God) born 287 died 246 he was 21 years old. He organized an empire-wide cult, as suggested by his ephitet, Theos (God.)

He was succeeded by his son Selecucus 2ed.

Antiochus III the son of Seleucus II. Born 242, died 187, was 55 when he died. The Romans drove him back into Asia Minor and defeated him in the battle of Magnesia.

Antiochus 4th Epiphanes. Born 215, died 164 B.C. King of the Hellenistic Syrian kingdom from 175 until 164 B.C. He was an able and popular ruler best known for his encouragement of Greek influences, during the course of which he inadvertently promoted the creation of the important independent Jewish state of the Maccabees, or Hasmoneans. He served as a hostage in Rome for 14 years after his father’s defeat (190—189) by the Romans. On his release he ousted the usurper Heliodorus and ascended the Syrian throne. He occupied almost all of Egypt in 169 and again in 168, but the Romans forced him to evacuate the kingdom. Antiochus then conquered the Jewish stronghold of Jerusalem and attempted to Hellenize the city. In 166, however, Judas Maccabeus raised the Jewish rebellion that eventually led to the formation of an independent Jewish state.

Antiochus Eupator; son of Antiochus Epiphanes, was nine years old when his father died and left him the kingdom of Syria.

Antiochus V. 173 – 162 B.C.  17-948.

Antiochus 7th Sidetes 159 – 129 Captured Jerusalem in 135-134. Razed Jerusalem’s walls. Hyrcanus was high priest and allowed religious autonomy.

Antiochus of Ascalon Born 130 120. Died 68 B.C.  The Seleucidae ceased to reign in 69 A.D.

Phil LaSpino




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Answer to 2300 days.
« on: Sun Sep 28, 2014 - 16:50:27 »

Offline finestwheat

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Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #1 on: Sun Nov 02, 2014 - 14:36:22 »
"And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed" (Dan. 8.14).

I would like to point out there are always 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av.

So once the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Temples have been completed by Passover there is are 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av.

Starting the year before, every 7 out of 19 years, Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B'Av takes exactly 2,520 days or 7 x 360 or 84 months.

Tisha B'Av was when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed. The 3rd Temple won't be destroyed as Rev. 11.2 says don't measure the court outside the Temple as the Temple remains unscathed when Israel is overrun during the coming Great Trib.

The other 12 out of 19 years there are 2,550 days (1260 + 1290) from Feast of Trumpets to Day of Atonement.

From 2022 to 2029 there are 2,550 days from Feast of Trumpets to Day of Atonement.

From 2015 to 2022 there are 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B'Av.
« Last Edit: Sun Nov 02, 2014 - 14:41:27 by finestwheat »

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Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #1 on: Sun Nov 02, 2014 - 14:36:22 »

Offline Doug

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #2 on: Mon Nov 03, 2014 - 07:25:18 »
finestwheat wrote:

Quote
"And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed" (Dan. 8.14).

I would like to point out there are always 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av.


Do you mean, "from Passover to Tisha B'Av seven years later"?

When using the Jewish calendar, counting the months as lunar months of 29.53 days instead of 30 days gives more precision:

Days remaining after Passover 14 Nisan [March-April] = 15 days
Iyar     [April-May]  = 29.53 days
Sivan   [May-June] = 29.53 days
Tammuz     [June-July] = 29.53 days
9 Av  [July-August] = 9 days

15 + 3*29.53 +9  = 112.59 days

add 6 years: [4 years of 12 months + 2 years of 13 months]

4*12*29.53 + 2*13*29.53 + 112.59 = 2297.81 days.

Close to 2300 days, but not quite.

Invoking months of 30 days makes it worse:

15 + 4*12*30 + 2*13*30 + 3*30 + 9 = 2334 days

Quote
So once the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Temples have been completed by Passover there is are 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av.

Starting the year before, every 7 out of 19 years, Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B'Av takes exactly 2,520 days or 7 x 360 or 84 months.

Tisha B'Av was when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed. The 3rd Temple won't be destroyed as Rev. 11.2 says don't measure the court outside the Temple as the Temple remains unscathed when Israel is overrun during the coming Great Trib.

The other 12 out of 19 years there are 2,550 days (1260 + 1290) from Feast of Trumpets to Day of Atonement.

From 2022 to 2029 there are 2,550 days from Feast of Trumpets to Day of Atonement.

From 2015 to 2022 there are 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B'Av.



IMO, there is no good reason to connect the 2300 days with seven years. If interpreted as years, these days or 'evening-mornings' span 23 centuries. That represents the time from when the prophecy was given, the third year of Belshazzar, to 1750 AD, when the heavens were "cleansed," and men everywhere abandoned belief in rigid heavenly spheres, and the revolutions of the sky, and planetary spheres. The discoveries and pubications of Galileo, Kepler, Sir Isaac Newton and other astronomers were translated, and were widely accepted in the mid-eighteenth century.

The chart below illustrates the timelines of the 70 weeks of Dan. 9 and the 2,300 days of Dan. 8. The three sections of the 70 weeks correspond to the last three of the four periods of "seven times" in Lev. 26. In the final seven times, God is reconciled to his people. In the 70th week Christ confirms his covenant with many. This began with his earthly ministry, three and a half natural years. The last half-week is the symbolic time, times and a half, which began with the resurrection of Jesus, and extends to the end of the age. [Dan. 12:7]


Doug

Offline finestwheat

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #3 on: Mon Nov 03, 2014 - 12:30:02 »
There are exactly 173,880 days (7 x 360 x 69) after which Jesus is cut off from the declaration to rebuild Jerusalem March 5, 444 BC (Neh. 2.1) to March 28, 33 AD (Monday, Nisan 10). The 4 day inspection of the lamb was March 28, 29, 30, 31. Jesus died on the cross April 1, 33 AD (Passover, Nisan 14). This is the Gregorian calendar.

Your day year theory is false. From the completion of the 3rd Temple by Passover 2023 there are 2300 days for the Temple to be cleansed to Tisha B'Av 2029 when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed. There are exactly 2,550 days (1260+1290) from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 26, 2022 to Day of Atonement Sept. 19, 2029. Rev. 8 is the first 1260 days. Rev. 9 to 11 are the second 1260 days -- the Great Tribulation.

Jesus steps down on the mount of olives and judges the nations for 30 days more from the 1260th day to the 1290th day. Hence 2,550 days to the Day of Atonement. Then 45 days more to the 1335th day Jesus sets up Israel as the center of all nations from where He reigns in the 3rd Temple over the nations with His overcomers for 1000 years (Jude 14,15; Rev. 2.26,27; 20.4-6).

Daniel's final seven has not started yet. Jesus ministered for 3 years. There was no 7 year covenant at the time of Jesus. Just as all Daniel's sevens are continuous 2,520 days each so too is Daniel's final seven. Daniel says Messiah is cut off after the 69 sevens not 69.5 sevens.

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" (Dan. 9.27).

Jesus does not make desolate. Antichrist makes desolate. One way you can realize you are wrong if you don't want to accept these facts is to realize the 3rd Temple must be completed by Passover 2023 so construction must begin no later than 2020 just as the $300 million Temple in Brazil took 4 years to build.

One of the main ways detractors can be shown to be false in their beliefs is when to their amazement they see the construction on the 3rd Temple begin.


« Last Edit: Mon Nov 03, 2014 - 12:47:21 by finestwheat »

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #3 on: Mon Nov 03, 2014 - 12:30:02 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline finestwheat

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #4 on: Tue Nov 04, 2014 - 12:55:11 »
Not sure what that has to do with Dan. 8.14 but suffice it to say this verse says the Temple is cleansed after 2300 days so in 2023 Passover there are 2300 days to the end of the Tribulation to Tisha B'Av 2029. There is never an exception. There are always 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av 6 years later. There are 7 x 360 or 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 26, 2022 to Day of Atonement Sept. 19, 2029. Apophis is April 13, 2029 (Matt. 24.30).

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #4 on: Tue Nov 04, 2014 - 12:55:11 »



Offline DaveW

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #5 on: Tue Nov 04, 2014 - 13:00:19 »
Not sure what that has to do with Dan. 8.14 but suffice it to say this verse says the Temple is cleansed after 2300 days so in 2023 Passover there are 2300 days to the end of the Tribulation to Tisha B'Av 2029. There is never an exception. There are always 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av 6 years later. There are 7 x 360 or 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 26, 2022 to Day of Atonement Sept. 19, 2029. Apophis is April 13, 2029 (Matt. 24.30).
 
"There is never an exception."

Um - you do know that the months vary in numbers of days from year to year, right? Kislev and Adar can have either 29 or 30 days


And there are leap months in some years? (adar 2) That adds another 30 days into the mix.


Year    Date of Rosh Hashanah     Number of Days in the year

5767   23 September 2006            355
5768   13 September 2007           383*
5769   30 September 2008           354
5770   19 September 2009           355
5771   9 September 2010             385*
5772   29 September 2011           354
5773   17 September 2012           353
5774   5 September 2013             385*
5775   25 September 2014           354
5776   14 September 2015           385*
5777   3 October 2016                 353
5778   21 September 2017           354
5779   10 September 2018          385*
5780   30 September 2019          355
5781   19 September 2020          353
« Last Edit: Tue Nov 04, 2014 - 13:25:00 by DaveW »

Offline finestwheat

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #6 on: Tue Nov 04, 2014 - 13:19:36 »
Um - you do know that the months vary in numbers of days from year to year, right? And there are leap months in some years? (adar 2)

Go check it out yourself. There are always 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av. A day is always a day.

There are exactly 2300 days from Passover 2023 to Tisha B'Av 2029.
There are exactly 2,520 days 7 out of every 19 years from Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B'Av.
The other 12 out of 19 years there are 2,550 days from Feast of Trumpets to Day of Atonement.

There are 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 to Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022.
There are 2,550 days from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 26, 2022 to Day of Atonement Sept. 19, 2029.

Not sure why these absolute facts would offend you.

Use a date duration program.

[link deleted]
« Last Edit: Wed Nov 05, 2014 - 22:33:54 by Nevertheless »

Offline finestwheat

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #7 on: Wed Nov 05, 2014 - 19:06:30 »
the 2,300 days

I don't see the connection to your year-day theory. Nor has the Temple been cleansed at the end of your time.

Think how strange that would be if, for example, Daniel's sevens were not 7 x 360 days but years. From the declaration to rebuild Jerusalem there was seven sets of seven then another 62 sets of seven after which the Messiah would be cut off. That's 173,880 days, not 173,880 years, from Neh. 2.1 to Nisan 10, Monday, March 28, 33 AD (Gregorian) the very 1st day of the 4 day inspection of the lamb. Now that's exact! Lots of other passages in Scriptures would do much damage if your year-day theory was true.

There are exactly always 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av. You should take notice of this fact. Besides, you admitted your approach is just a rough calculation which to my thinking is not very dependable.

God gives these precise markers I've outlined for you so you can be confident and don't go off on a wild goose chase with your aberrant ideas.
« Last Edit: Wed Nov 05, 2014 - 19:21:51 by finestwheat »

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #8 on: Wed Nov 05, 2014 - 22:01:34 »
2,300 days

We go by evidence. Nothing there to suggest 2300 years, any of your dates, or the Temple cleansed over 2300 years so it is 2300 days as there are always 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av so shall it be within Daniel's final seven of 2,520 days. The year-day theory is arbitrary.

Tisha B'Av was when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed, but the 3rd Temple won't be since Jesus will return to reign in the 3rd Temple on earth for 1000 years as Rev. 11.2 says measure the Temple indicating its protection, but measure not the court outside the Temple when Israel is overrun for a short period during the Great Tribulation.
« Last Edit: Wed Nov 05, 2014 - 22:12:08 by finestwheat »

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #9 on: Thu Nov 06, 2014 - 06:18:56 »
Quote
Tisha B'Av was when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed, but the 3rd Temple won't be since Jesus will return to reign in the 3rd Temple on earth for 1000 years as Rev. 11.2 says

That could be a 4th temple.  There is some kind of temple that the anti-messiah rules from during the Tribulation.  It is not clear that the Millenial temple and the Tribulation temple are the same.

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #10 on: Thu Nov 06, 2014 - 13:30:21 »
The 2300 days has no taken place because the Temple has not been cleansed. Construction on the 3rd Temple hasn't even started yet. But once the Temple is completed by Passover 2023 from Passover that year to Tisha B'Av in 2029 there are exactly 2300 days for the Temple to be cleansed. Tisha B'Av, as you know, was when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed. But the 3rd Temple won't be destroyed as Rev. 11.2 says measure the Temple, but do not measure the court outside of the Temple, because Israel will be overrun for a short time during the Great Tribulation at the end of this age. The 3rd Temple, of course, is not destroyed because when Jesus returns at the end of Daniel's 70th seven, He reigns in the 3rd Temple for 1000 years over the nations (Rev. 2.26,27) with His overcomers (20.4-6), that is, believers that were spiritual and did not remain carnal, fleshly, lying on a bed of fornication.

The 5th Seal which occurs before the Tribulation starts reads, "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God [martyrs the past 20 centuries], and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them [resurrected and raptured ahead of time for their righteousnesses]; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled" (Rev. 6.9-11).

This 'little season' is the period of the Tribulation for many saints will be martyred during the Tribulation, primarily the Great Tribulation, the last 3 1/2 years. Hence, they are told to wait a little longer till the rest of their brethren are martyred during the Great Tribulation.

« Last Edit: Thu Nov 06, 2014 - 13:43:34 by finestwheat »

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #11 on: Thu Nov 06, 2014 - 23:07:03 »
There is no cleansed Temple with 2300 days as years, so the 2300 days will be during the Tribulation, during Daniel's 70th seven. The 70th seven is 2,520 like all Daniel's sevens. From Feast of Trumpets Sept. 26, 2022 to the Day of Atonement Sept. 19, 2029 there are 2,550 days. The 30 days more from the 1260th to the 1290th day (or 2,550th day) is for Jesus to judge the nations when He returns. And there are 2300 days from Passover 2023 to Tisha B'Av 2029 within the Tribulation period.
« Last Edit: Thu Nov 06, 2014 - 23:10:37 by finestwheat »

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #12 on: Fri Nov 07, 2014 - 12:07:12 »
What matters is the recognition there has been no Temple cleansed after 2300 days today. This is part of Daniel's final seven which is 2,520 days. The last 2300 days are towards the cleansing of the 3rd Temple when Jesus will reign in it for 1000 years.

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Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #13 on: Fri Nov 07, 2014 - 16:38:39 »
There has been no Temple cleansed at anytime since Dan. 8.14, but there will be at the end of the 7 year Tribulation at the end of this age when we will observe 2300 days from Passover 2023 to Tisha B'Av 2029. The Tribulation is from 2022 to 2029. Tisha B'Av was when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed, but the 3rd Temple won't be destroyed, for Jesus will to reign in it for 1000 years on earth with His overcomers with a rod of iron. Praise the Lord!

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #14 on: Sat Nov 08, 2014 - 12:20:05 »
Since we can find no cleansed Temple in the past 2000 years we know the 2300 days pertains to the last 2300 days of the 2,520 days of the Tribulation. There are always 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av. The only question then is when does the 7 year Tribulation start? The Tribulation can't begin before Rev. 6.12 (2010-15), but nor can it be a prolonged period more than Ps. 90.10 80 years from Matt. 24.32-33 1948. 80 + 1948 = 2028. Hence, we can anticipate a 7 year preparatory period after 2015 then the 2,550 days from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 26, 2022 to Day of Atonement Sept. 19, 2029 the year of Apophis April 13, 2029 (Matt. 24.30). Rebuke the year-day theory for the 173,880 days would be 173,880 years. How foolish! Under that scenario Jesus waits too long to return to earth for the regeneration of the world (Matt. 19.28).


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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #15 on: Sat Nov 08, 2014 - 18:58:16 »
There has not been a cleansing of the Temple in the past 2000 years, so the 2300 days are the last 2300 days of the 2,520 of Daniel's seventieth seven. So that puts the 2300 days from Passover 2023 to Tisha B'Av 2029 when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed. And the 7 year Tribulation with its 2,550 days (1260 + 1290) are Feast of Trumpets Sept. 26, 2022 to Day of Atonement Sept. 19, 2029. Jesus returns at the end of the 2,520 days of the Tribulation to reign over the nations in the cleansed Temple with His overcomers for 1000 years on earth. This is called the regeneration of the world (Matt. 19.28).


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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #16 on: Sun Nov 09, 2014 - 14:14:11 »
We see no cleansed Temple the past 2000 years so the 2300 days has not started yet. Daniel's final seven is 2,520 days and there are 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av. There are, in fact, always 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av. Don't overlook this fact.

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #17 on: Mon Nov 10, 2014 - 12:22:39 »
That will upset you when construction begins on the 3rd Temple no later than 2020 so it is completed by Passover 2023 with Daniel's final seven from 2022 to 2029. The reason the 3rd Temple is not cleansed is because it has not yet been built yet to be cleansed. You and Doug are talking past this point. Stay on topic of this thread of the 2300 days. The 2300 days is the last 2300 days of the 2,520 days of the Tribulation after which time Jesus steps down on the mount of olives with His overcomers (i.e. not all Christians just the 5 wise virgins), judges the nations from the 1260th to the 1290th day and then sets up Israel as the center of all nations from the 1290th to the 1335th day. There are always 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av just as there are 7 out of every 19 years 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B'Av and the other 12 out 19 years there are 2,550 days (1260 + 1290) from Feast of Trumpets to Day of Atonement. There is no mistaking these facts or markers in the text.
« Last Edit: Mon Nov 10, 2014 - 12:29:03 by finestwheat »

Offline finestwheat

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Re: Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #18 on: Mon Nov 10, 2014 - 14:27:06 »
The topic of this thread is the 2300 days not whether you think the earth revolves around the sun or not.

There are always 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av to the day. The Tribulation is always 2,520 like all of Daniel's 69 sevens. Hence, we observe 7 out of 19 years 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B'Av and 12 out of 19 years 2,550 days from Feast of Trumpets to Day of Atonement.

And so the last 2300 days of the 2,520 days of the Tribulation the Temple will be cleansed.

Offline the_sign

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Re: Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #19 on: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 14:49:39 »
There has been no Temple cleansed at anytime since Dan. 8.14,

The cleansing foretold is now a current event.

There isn't a canonical feast for "Tisha B'av" during the prophet Daniel's time, it has come about as a tradition.

The opening and unsealing of these seeming enigmatic prophecies are not purely a matter of number, the closing and sealing being described in Daniel 12:4 & 9.

The correct interpretations were given through the passing of certain souls to eternal life; it is God's way of locking them shut until an appointed time.

The 2,300 days proper began on the same date as the 1,290 and 1,335 day periods of Daniel 12:11 & 12, respectively, September 12, 2012 A.D. and will end on Holy Family Saturday, November 29, 2018 A.D.

In terms of "for My Name's sake" (Isaiah 48:9), it is difficult to imagine a further delay.
« Last Edit: Thu Sep 07, 2017 - 09:10:57 by the_sign »

Offline the_sign

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #20 on: Thu Sep 07, 2017 - 09:20:50 »
As of this post, September 7, 2017 A.D., there remain 478 days of the 2,300 day cleansing period foretold in Daniel 8:14.

The day following the 2,300th day period is The First Sunday of the General Resurrection of the Dead, December 30, 2018 A.D., traditionally also a Sunday after the Feast of the Nativity of Our Lord and a Sunday before the Feast of the Theophany of Our Lord.

Offline Fisherking

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #21 on: Thu Sep 28, 2017 - 23:59:22 »
As of this post, September 7, 2017 A.D., there remain 478 days of the 2,300 day cleansing period foretold in Daniel 8:14.

The day following the 2,300th day period is The First Sunday of the General Resurrection of the Dead, December 30, 2018 A.D., traditionally also a Sunday after the Feast of the Nativity of Our Lord and a Sunday before the Feast of the Theophany of Our Lord.

Try reading the original Hebrew. Its not 2300 days, its 1150 Days. The word used for day is nowhere to be found. It says 2300 then TWO WORDS are used,....It says 2300 (EREB...Dusk) (BOQER...Dawns)

So it means after 2300 Oblation periods, Morning and Sunset worship settings, then the sanctuary will be cleansed. An Oblation period is prayer unto God, we see this clearly in Daniel 9 where the Angel comes unto Daniel in the Evening Oblation period, and gives him the understandings of Jeremiahs 70 Week Decree.

Daniel 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God;

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

So the 2300 is 1150 and that fits into the 42 Months the Beast will rule, or 1260 Days.

Its not really a sacrifice either, its just called the Daily in Daniel 8:11,12 and 13, the English translators added the word Sacrifice. So it could be that the Anti-Christ/Beast stops Israel from worshiping Jesus, if the have Repented, and Malachi 4:5-6 says they Repent BEFORE the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #22 on: Fri Jun 08, 2018 - 02:48:30 »
LaSpino3  -  or Phil, I should say -  I'm going to take you at your word from one of your other posts, and presume that you really were interested in any new findings I might come up with to share.  Thanks to the comment above by Fisherking, they put me into thinking mode about this 2,300 number.  Based on their comment, I had to do a slight revision on the startup date of my former stance on identifying where this 2,300 time period fits on the calendar.  You seem to have your own mind settled on this already, but I'll throw this out there for your mathematical mind and anyone else to consider and critique. 

You've given a very good historical layout above as an introduction, so I don't need to repeat the history leading up to the Maccabean struggle for freedom from Syrian rule.  Now, I know you have written before that you don't think the 4th kingdom has been destroyed yet.  Actually, the 4th kingdom is immaterial in this discussion of the 2,300 prophecy, because it all takes place within the history towards the end of the 3rd empire of the Greeks. 

The interpreting angel in Daniel 8 leaves no question in the matter of what period of time this prophecy was anchored to.  Daniel 8 starts with a description of the Medes and Persians empire (the ram with two horns); then goes to the following Greek empire (the he-goat); then the "Great Horn" on that he-goat (Alexander the Great); and after that to the four generals (the four "notable ones") who divided up Alexander's conquered territory after his untimely death.  It would be out of one of those four kingdoms that the "king of fierce countenance" would arise who would "destroy the mighty and holy people".  This was Antiochus Epiphanes IV, who "stood against the Prince of princes" (the high priesthood of Israel).

Every bit of Daniel 8's prophecy leads to the climax of the Maccabean victory over Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 BC, when the sanctuary was cleansed by Judas Maccabeus.  Jerusalem's sanctuary and its people had been trampled on by Antiochus' army ever since 168 BC.  This period between the autumn of 168 BC until the winter of 165 BC comprised the "2,300 mornings and evenings".  These are NOT 2,300 DAYS as I had formerly thought, but a total of 2,300 mornings and evenings (morning and evening oblations in the temple), which means we are speaking of HALF that number of 2,300, - indicating a total of 1,150 24-hour days, as Fisherking's comment above pointed out.  Josephus affirms this exact number of days in his record of this 2,300 number of morning and evening oblation times in the Preface to his "Wars" (19): "For example, I shall relate how Antiochus, who was named Epiphanes, took Jerusalem by force, and held it THREE YEARS AND THREE MONTHS, and was then ejected out of the country by the sons of Asamaneus:..." (which is the Hasmoneans, or the Maccabees).

This number of 2,300 can't possibly refer to 2,300 YEARS, because the interpreting angel in Daniel 8 never used the word "years" OR "days" -  He calls it "the vision of the evening and morning" - referring to the 2,300 evening and morning oblation's worth of time (which totaled 1,150 days) that would expire before the sanctuary would be cleansed.

Even in Christ's day, the Jews continued to celebrate this day when the temple was finallly cleansed and re-dedicated by Judas Maccabeus.  They called it "the Feast of Dedication" or "the Feast of Lamps" (John 10:22).  Judas Maccabeus cleansed and re-dedicated the sanctuary exactly three years to the very day when idolatrous sacrifices were first offered to the idol of Zeus that had been placed on the temple's altar in 168 BC. 

Three months before this abominable idol had been put in the temple, in the fall of 168 BC, Antiochus' comander had come with an army and had sacked Jerusalem, killing many, sending about 10,000 into captivity, tearing down the walls and houses of Jerusalem, building a fortress for his Macedonian troops, and planting the idol of Zeus Olympus on Jerusalem's altar.  Any observance of the Jewish religion was banned on pain of death or torture, and any holy books located were destroyed.  Those who would not submit to Greek customs and worship were killed or they fled the city.  This represented the fulfillment of both the sanctuary and the host to be "trodden under foot" during those days (Daniel 8:13).  It also fulfilled the prediction that the "strong horn" of Daniel 8:9 would "destroy the mighty and the holy people" (Daniel 8:24). 

The death of the "strong horn" is VERY abrupt in Daniel 8:25:  "But he shall be broken without hand".  This was literally fulfilled in the case of Antiochus Epiphanes IV, since God struck him suddenly with diseased bowels in 164 BC, as he was racing in his chariot back to Jerusalem.  Falling out of his chariot, he was badly burt, and his injured, disjointed body rapidly bred worms.  He literally rotted to death, and at the end admitted publicly that his vicious treatment of the Jews and his pride in thinking of himself as a god were what led to his miserable end.

Phil, I would encourage both you and anyone else that might be reading this comment to study the account of this 168 BC - 165 BC period in Ussher's "Annals", with Daniel 8 open beside them as they read (as well as Daniel 11:31-35 that also covers the Maccabean conflict with Antiochus Epiphanes IV).  The parallels are quite striking between the actions of the  "strong horn" in Daniel 8 and Antiochus IV's history.   

There is no justification for transplanting the fulfillment of this "2,300" prophecy into a future time, far removed from the fulfillment of the Greek empire.  It was all fulfilled during the time the remnant of the four kingdoms of the Greek empire were still in place, and the 4th empire had not yet fully risen.

And I do appreciate Fisherking's comment that helped me correct my view on the starting point of this 2,300 number, which I had once interpreted as 2,300 days instead of that many evening and morning oblations.  It made things come into focus for me, although my conclusion about where to place this on history's timeline might not agreeable with them.

Any comments pro or con, Phil?               
« Last Edit: Sat Jul 07, 2018 - 22:34:05 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #23 on: Fri Jul 20, 2018 - 14:45:59 »
3 Resurrections: Thanks for your comments. Let me answer one of your comments:

You wrote, "This number of 2,300 can't possibly refer to 2,300 YEARS, because the interpreting angel in Daniel 8 never used the word "years" OR "days" -  He calls it "the vision of the evening and morning" - referring to the 2,300 evening and morning oblation's worth of time (which totaled 1,150 days) that would expire before the sanctuary would be cleansed.

One of the keys for understanding this prophesy is to get the full impact of the word “days” in verse 14. The whole period of time Nebuchadnezzar’s image represents from the head of gold to the feet and toes of iron and clay is measured in years, not days. From 605 B.C. when Nebuchadnezzar began his reign until this very day, almost 2600 years have passed.

We also see that the 70 weeks of years were measured not in days but years, 490 to be exact. Also, the number of years the Jews spent in captivity was measured in years. So, to be constant, I understand the 2300 days to also mean years.

The word “DAYS” in verse 14, consists of two words (“ereb” & “Boger). Nowhere else in Scripture is this combination of words used. Daniel continues, “then” (being a word of time future) “shall (without doubt), the sanctuary (where Holy of Holies stood in the Temple) “be cleansed” (meaning purged, made clean, free and justified.” The only person that can cleanse the Temple now is the only High Priest the Jews have, that's Jesus Christ, the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek.

“Ereb” is used as a noun masculine singular. it represents a period between light and darkness: The Jews reckoned two evenings to one day: The paschal lamb was to be killed (as Jesus was) between, or in the middle of the two evenings, From that day forward, the Jews have been in darkness and remain so to this day. One very long day! It ends when Jesus returns and the Jews are once more in the Light.

The second word “Boger” means the morning, which peeps or looks out, and separates from the night. This represents the Light; Malachi 4:2, “Unto you that fear my name shall the Son of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings—.” But since the cross the Jews and the Land have remained in darkness as they continue to be trodden under foot by the gentiles.

Paraphrased, verse 14 reads,
“The Light of Jehovah withdrew from them (the Jews), and there would be a time of (2300 years) that the nation of Israel shall exist between two darkness’s; and between these two darkness’s, the Jews and the land shall suffer scourging and punishment from the lashes and rods of their enemies as prophesied, for 2300 years.”

Maccabe's? NO! Antiochus was a family that ruled the Selucid empire from 281 B.C. until the last antiouchus was defeated in 68 A.D. Daniel's image goes right up until the Lord returns and cruses the whole of Nebuchadnezzar's image. Until then we are living in the era of the feet and toes of miry clay. Antiochus sacrifice and his destroction of the Temple effected only a nation of idol worshippers, the Jews. There was no ark of the covenant, no mercy seat since 599 B.C., the priests were corrupted and were appointed not by God, but by men. The Temple was nothing but a building, just like many churchs today.
Phil



Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #24 on: Fri Jul 20, 2018 - 21:31:50 »
Phil  -  The angel himself gives us the key to pinpointing the time period for this 2,300 numbered prophecy in Daniel 8:21-24.  It is specifically the “latter time” of the GREEK kingdom.  That means the time of Antiochus Epiphanes and his war with the Maccabees.  Antiochus did “destroy the mighty and holy people” by his actions against the Jews.

I’ve no problem with seeing “years” involved with the 70-weeks prophecy (of 490 years). and the idea that Daniel’s statue represents years of time when the 4 empires each existed.  But you can’t arbitrarily switch this 2,300 numbered prophecy to also mean “years”, especially when the interpreting angel doesn’t give you that option.  Your paraphrase of this verse is just that - YOUR paraphrase - not the angel’s, who specifically called this a total of 2,300 “mornings and evenings” - not years. 

There is also a huge problem with the length of history you are assigning to the existence of Daniel’s image.  As the prophecy goes, the rock cut without hands strikes the image on the feet and the entire image turns into dust.  THEN, AFTER THAT, an undisclosed amount of time goes by while the rock is steadily growing into a mountain that fills the earth. 

If this image is supposed to be crushed at the end of the world at Christ’s final return in your interpretation, just how do we have Christ’s influence continuing to grow and fill the earth incrementally AFTER His final return?  Your timing for the “lifespan” of this entire image doesn’t make sense.  Its destruction was timed to occur in AD 70.  The members of the kingdom of God (the growing mountain) have been increasing in the nations ever since. 

One more response to your comments...even though the post-exilic temple built by Zerubbabel had no ark of the covenant or mercy-seat in the Holy of Holies, God still desired for that temple to be built, and was quite adamant that His people finish it.  He told the post-exilic Jews in Jerusalem, “Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I WILL TAKE PLEASURE IN IT, and I will be glorified...” (Haggai 2:8).  The glory of that more humble temple structure finished by Zerubbabel would exceed the glory of the former temple built by Solomon, because the Lord Himself would enter it as the incarnate Son of God (Haggai 2:9).  HE would provide the living embodiment of the only mercy seat we needed.  It was actually necessary that the type of the old mercy seat be gone before Christ, (as the anti-type fulfillment for that OT mercy-seat), arrived in the flesh.

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #25 on: Sat Jul 21, 2018 - 21:24:04 »
3 Resurrections, what Bible did you get the following "then after that"? "As the prophecy goes, the rock cut without hands strikes the image on the feet and the entire image turns into dust.  THEN, AFTER THAT, an undisclosed amount of time goes by while the rock is steadily growing into a mountain that fills the earth."   I use the K.J.B.

"It became a great mountain, points to the 1000 year reign.

One more thing, you wrote, "Your paraphrase of this verse is just that - YOUR paraphrase." Hmm, 3 Resurrections, I have examined each and every word used in this verse by Daniel, I left no stones unturned. My paraphrase is the sum of months of work concerning the words found in that verse. Yes, I did paraphrase the verse, but what I wrote in English was so we could better understand exactly what the verse is speaking of. Daniel's language is much different than the rest of the O.T. prophets. If you research it, you would understand exactly what I mean. I feel Daniel wrote in coded language for many reasons, one being, it wasn't meant to be understood until now, the end of the end days.


As far as the 2ed Temple goes, it was only a building, nothing more, a meeting place. It had no value to God, or for the people to have the LORD come in his glory and show himself on the mercy seat, because after 599 B.C., the ark, the sacred vessels and the mercy seat had disappeared. Without these things in the Holy of Holies, it was only and empty room with 4 walls hidden by a veil, and any sacrifices performed were for nothing. Prayer would have been the only way for the Jews to communicate with the LORD.

I'm going to move on to another subject that will give support to this tread. It will also concern the word day or days and support the approximate time of the "catching away of the church, and the 7 years of tribulation to follow.

Phil 
« Last Edit: Sun Jul 22, 2018 - 10:24:33 by LaSpino3 »

Offline dpr

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #26 on: Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 10:18:15 »
Once all of the Book of Daniel is studied, I don't see any great difficulty with understanding the 2300 day period.

Dan 8:11-14
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
KJV


One of the major matters in Dan.9:27 and Dan.11 is the ending of the daily sacrifices and placing of an idol abomination in the temple instead.

And since Antiochus IV did that in 170 B.C., but Jesus warned about it almost 200 years later, it means it's still a future event. The Romans didn't fulfill the abomination of desolation prophecy either, because the temple burned down before they could get possession of it in 70 A.D. And a standing Jewish temple is required to fulfill the Dan.11 abomination of desolation prophecy.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #27 on: Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 19:21:03 »
LaSpino3  -  Where did I get “THEN AFTER THAT” as an interpretation of what happens after Daniel’s vision of the statue was broken?  By reading the KJV, same as you.  In the margin of the KJV, it includes that sense of the Daniel 2:45 verse from the Chaldean tongue in this way: “Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: (Chaldean - “AFTER THIS”). 

The “After this” term is referring to the time when the rock is incrementally growing in size after God breaks up the statue’s elements, and sets up His own indestructible kingdom.  It is NOT the Rev. 20 millennium that is set up at that point, since that millennium ENDED with the “First Resurrection” event which included Christ, the “Firstfruits” (in AD 33). 

The description of the Rev. 20 millennium period and its conditions are totally absent in the Dan. 2 prophecy about the statue.  You are attempting to force-fit the millennium into the Daniel 2 passage, and it can’t be done.

dpr  -  There are TWO DIFFERENT “abomination of desolation” events spoken about in Daniel.  Both refer to ARMIES SURROUNDING JERUSALEM”: (the first found in Dan. 8:13 and 11:31 referring to Antiochus Epiphanes’ army, and the second found in Dan 9:27b - “with abominable armies” in the KJV margin, and 12:11 referring to the Zealots and the Roman armies engaging each other in AD 66 at Jerusalem at the end of that age).

We should rely on Jesus’ own definition for the “abomination of desolation” in Luke 21:20-21, when we compare that verse with the parallel account of His words in Matt. 24:15-16.

Matthew 24:25-16: “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readership let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains...”

Luke 21:20-21: “And when ye shall see JERUSALEM COMPASSED WITH ARMIES, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.  Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains...”

Luke 21:20-21 defines Matthew 24:15-16.  No ambiguity here.  It’s ARMIES surrounding Jerusalem that accomplish its desolation on those two occasions.  Neither of Daniel’s two prophecies of an abomination of desolating armies surrounding Jerusalem are scheduled for our future.  Antiochus Epiphanes fulfilled the first prophecy in 168 BC at “the latter time of their kingdom” (Dan. 8:23 - the Seleucids and the Ptolemies).  The Zealot and Roman forces fulfilled the second prophecy by surrounding Jerusalem again in the Fall of AD 66 at the start of the Roman / Jewish War at the “time of the end” (Dan. 12:4, 9).

Peter spoke of this “time of the end” in 1 Peter 4:7  (written about AD 65) when he told his first-century readers that “THE END OF ALL THINGS IS AT HAND...”  An obvious reference to the time when the power of Daniel’s people as it was represented by their temple and priesthood would soon be shattered.



Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #28 on: Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 19:56:40 »
3 Resurrections, Wow, your so off base, I wouldn't know where to start!

The toes of iron and miry clay the last empires of the world will one day be broken by the stone made without hands. This iron and clay is still a part of the old Roman empire the 4th beast that will exist until the Lord's return. Pagan Rome, followed by Holy Roman empire, the hoards out of Asia and Europe that conquered Rome, followed by the European empires, France, Germany, England, Spain, and in this period Islam, the Ottomans, today the E.U. and we can throw in America, settled by the English, French, Germans, Danes, all part of the old Roman Empire. Islam is in full bloom having almost overtaking in numbers, Christians. Israel still exists, and is surrounded by every enemy mentioned in Ezekiel.

Nah! your way off base. Go back to Daniel 2 and study the image to its completion. The 4th beast is alive and well today, and will continue to be until the Lord returns at the end of the tribulation. Then and only then will he crush the image at its feet, destroying all world powers and authorities. Then and only then will the 1000 year reign of Christ begin. Until then, Satan is the prince of this world.

Phil

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #29 on: Sat Aug 04, 2018 - 00:09:57 »
Phil, you are missing one extremely critical point about Daniel’s statue.  Every one of those elements that made up the statue were all broken into pieces AT THE SAME TIME.  The meaning behind this symbolism is lost on most people, regardless of their eschatological persuasion. 

“Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces TOGETHER, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried THEM away, that no place was found for THEM: and the stone that smote the IMAGE” (more than just the iron/clay feet were affected) “became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.”  Nothing at all here about limiting this growth to the millennium’s thousand-year span of time. 

Since these elements were all destroyed TOGETHER in a single strike of the rock, it MUST refer to something else than just world empires or kingdoms of antiquity coming to the natural end of their earthly power.  Nebuchadnezzar’s Chaldean empire dissolved long ago in that single night of Belshazzar’s drunken feast.  The subsequent Medes and Persians empire fell under Alexander’s onslaught.  Likewise the Greek kingdom with the Ptolemies and the Seleucids at the “latter time of their kingdom” inevitably gave way to the rising Roman republic and empire. 

This is NOT describing a SIMULTANEOUS fall of these kingdoms of world dominion.  So, the striking rock of Daniel 2 must be disposing of something else other than the world’s governing structures or empires.  I believe that striking rock represented a returning Christ who, in one blow in AD 70, disposed of all the evil members of the divine council who had operated within all those kingdoms throughout history.  The evil “Prince of Persia” who fought against Daniel’s angel in Daniel 10:13 is one obvious example.  He was an evil divine council member, working behind the scenes against the human prince of Persia, trying to disrupt God’s plans for the exiled Jews that the Persian empire would assist with its 4 decrees on their behalf.

There were other evil council members, with Satan their leader as the “Prince of this world”.  When God destroyed Satan and every unclean spirit in the AD 70 Lake of Fire in Jerusalem, this rid the kingdoms of the world of their evil influence behind the scenes all at once and for all time.  Isaiah 24:21-23 and 27:1 are only two passages that deal with the disposal of  Satan the dragon, and “the host of the high ones that are on high”  (the evil angelic host of divine council members).

This is the only way that a SIMULTANEOUS destruction of that statue’s elements can be logically explained.  When a returning Christ destroyed Satan and his angels with one stroke in AD 70, He confiscated all the  authority and power that those evil divine council members had exercised in this world’s empires throughout the millennia, and took those “crowns” for Himself as He established His own indestructible kingdom. 

One main difference between your view and mine, Phil, is that you are simply regarding the statue in terms of worldly, human kingdoms of governance, when the statue being broken up really represents Christ vanquishing Satan’s influence of his demonic realm within the earth’s kingdoms in one fell swoop in AD 70.  This is why that seventh vial in Rev. 16:17 was poured out on THE AIR: the “Prince of the power of the air” and his evil divine council members  were getting judged and eliminated at that point.

“AFTER THAT”, Christ’s kingdom (established with us believers as the new human “divine council” operating within the nations of the world) is now growing steadily into the rock that will fill the earth, as God intended.  And God’s  plans never fail to be carried out.

Offline dpr

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #30 on: Sat Aug 04, 2018 - 15:26:26 »

dpr  -  There are TWO DIFFERENT “abomination of desolation” events spoken about in Daniel.  Both refer to ARMIES SURROUNDING JERUSALEM”: (the first found in Dan. 8:13 and 11:31 referring to Antiochus Epiphanes’ army, and the second found in Dan 9:27b - “with abominable armies” in the KJV margin, and 12:11 referring to the Zealots and the Roman armies engaging each other in AD 66 at Jerusalem at the end of that age).

I disagree. There is only ONE "abomination of desolation" event being described in the Book of Daniel; it's simply being mentioned in different Daniel Chapters, that's all. It's the same event of the transgression of desolation in Dan.8, and the same event described in Dan.9:27, and the same event in Dan.11 the "vile person" does, and the same event mentioned in Dan.12.

And your attempt to define it being about a destruction by armies is NOT what the "abomination of desolation" event is about.

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV


Antiochus IV served as the blueprint type for that event. He took Jerusalem with an army, corrupted the Jewish priesthood, went into the temple and placed an idol in Zeus worship on the altar, and sacrificed swine upon it. That is what the "abomination of desolation" is about, i.e., SPIRITUAL DESOLATION OF THE JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM (since you're using some capitals).


Quote
We should rely on Jesus’ own definition for the “abomination of desolation” in Luke 21:20-21, when we compare that verse with the parallel account of His words in Matt. 24:15-16.

Matthew 24:25-16: “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readership let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains...”

Luke 21:20-21: “And when ye shall see JERUSALEM COMPASSED WITH ARMIES, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.  Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains...”

Luke 21:20-21 defines Matthew 24:15-16.  No ambiguity here.  It’s ARMIES surrounding Jerusalem that accomplish its desolation on those two occasions.  Neither of Daniel’s two prophecies of an abomination of desolating armies surrounding Jerusalem are scheduled for our future.  Antiochus Epiphanes fulfilled the first prophecy in 168 BC at “the latter time of their kingdom” (Dan. 8:23 - the Seleucids and the Ptolemies).  The Zealot and Roman forces fulfilled the second prophecy by surrounding Jerusalem again in the Fall of AD 66 at the start of the Roman / Jewish War at the “time of the end” (Dan. 12:4, 9).

We should rely on Jesus' pointing us back to the Book of Daniel also. And Daniel 11:31 is clear what the abomination that maketh desolate is, an IDOL setup in false worship.

We don't have to wonder a lot for how the prophecy is to be fulfilled at the very end of this world either, because at the end of Revelation 13 we are shown by Jesus through John about the 2nd beast entity setting up an "image of the beast" in false worship, and all will be commanded to worship it, or be killed.

Antiochus IV served as a blueprint only. He actually did not completely fulfill all of the Daniel prophecy because Dan.2 declares the existence of a final 5th beast kingdom of feet of ten toes supporting all the other pieces of the beast statue when Jesus (the Stone not cut out with hands) comes to smite it upon its feet, and the whole together comes tumbling down. In Matthew 24 Jesus declared as the final sign there His 2nd coming to gather His Church. So He was speaking of the "abomination of desolation" being an event at the very end of this world, just prior to His return, within the very generation that would see His return, as a matter of fact from Matt.24.

In Luke 21 Scripture about the armies surrounding Jerusalem, that will be the event of the future Antichrist's armies doing that as Antichrist will follow many of the same things as Antiochus IV did in 170 B.C. And what did Antiochus IV do back then? He went into a standing Jewish temple and PLACED AN IDOL UPON THE ALTAR and sacrificed swine upon it, SPIRITUALLY DESOLATING THE TEMPLE. Thus the idea of the armies surrounding Jerusalem involving the end of this world is NOT about the destruction by the Romans in 70 A.D. It's still about the SPIRITUAL DESOLATION OF THE TEMPLE by the Antichrist at the very end, the difference being it will involve a new Jewish temple, the 3rd one the orthodox Jews are planning to build in Jerusalem in our near future.

I don't think the coming Antichrist will sacrifice swine on the future new Jewish temple in Jerusalem, but will only place the "image of the beast" there and demand all to bow in worship to him, just as the king of Babylon demanded worship of the golden idol of himself in Daniel's day.

2 Thess 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV


« Last Edit: Sat Aug 04, 2018 - 15:30:04 by dpr »

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #31 on: Sat Aug 04, 2018 - 17:55:52 »
3 Resurrections wrote, "Every one of those elements that made up the statue were all broken into pieces AT THE SAME TIME."

The problem I have right off the get-go is your use of the past tense "WERE." Your basically saying the 4th beast is finished, dead, gone! In retrospect, the generations of the Babylonians live in the people of Iraq; the Persian are alive and well in the generations now living in Iran, the generations of the Greeks are still alive and well. As for the Romans who are represented by the generations of Italians who are alive and well today, I know because I'm Italian as is all my family. The Holy Roman empire is alive and well in the Catholic church today. Muhammad and Islam are a product of the Roman Catholic church, as are all Protestant denominations. America settled by nations that were part of the old Roman empire etc. So to say the image of Nebuchadnezzar has already been smashed is nonsense. 

As it was in the ancient past each of the above are still enemies of the Jews, of the God of Israel, of Christ, and the Church, nothing has changed sinse Nebuchadnezzar, Darius, Cyrus, Alexander, his 4 generals, the Caesars, Popes or Rome, nothing has changed except the faces. If you want to believe the 4th beast is crushed, be my guest, but your barking up the wrong tree. There are thousand holes in your thinking.

You wrote,, " Every one of those elements that made up the statue were all broken into pieces AT THE SAME TIME."

My reply, Same, same!

Phil LaSpino

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #32 on: Sun Aug 05, 2018 - 00:50:20 »
Phil, I’m afraid you aren’t reading my comments carefully enough.  The simultaneous destruction of the entire statue of Daniel is not a destruction of the HUMAN nations or empires of men.  It’s a total destruction of the EVIL DEMONIC REALM of the divine council that had operated WITHIN all those empires.  Remember that Satan boasted to Christ in the wilderness temptation (Luke 4:5-7) when he had shown Him “all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.  And the devil said unto Him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will, I give it.” 

Thankfully, we know Jesus resisted this temptation, and would later crush Satan’s kingdoms in this world by imprisoning every unclean spirit in Jerusalem during the AD 66-70 war of the Jews (as Rev. 18:2 and Zech. 13:2 tells us). 

We are told in Hebrews 2:5 that “the world to come” in the experience of those Hebrews readers would not “be in subjection” to the angels anymore.  In other words, the divine council of angels that had operated in the world up to the end of that age would be completely gone - no more demonic evil present to work behind the scenes of the world’s empires.

Didn’t Christ say that He came to “destroy the works of the devil”? (1 John 3:8). Didn’t He say that Satan himself would SOON BE CRUSHED under the feet of the believers? (Romans 16:20). That means the first-century believers would experience this by the end of that age they were living in. 

Whatever evil is presently existing in the nations of the world since that age ended is now strictly credited to HUMAN evil expressing itself.  Not DEMONIC or SATANIC evil. 

Once those evil divine council members operating in the world were destroyed by the end of that Old Covenant age, Christ confiscated for Himself their power over the world’s kingdoms, and now shares that power with us as believers who have joined His kingdom.  We are Christ’s ambassadors to the world - His diplomats as well as “kings and priests unto God” - since “the rulers of the darkness of this world” are no longer here to do that ruling anymore.

The demonic powers that operated within ALL the world’s empires / kingdoms of the past are truly “finished, dead, gone”, as pictured by the entire statue of Daniel being destroyed at the same time.  Since AD 70, we are now living in the time when the “rock” is becoming a mountain that will fill the earth, just like the mustard seed analogy, and the leaven parable. 

This growth takes time.  According to your theory and dpr’s, Phil, the statue is crushed at the very end of the world.  How, then, can there be time AFTER the end of the world for the rock to grow into a mountain?  Your timeline doesn’t allow for it.

dpr  -  There is no mention of Antiochus setting up an idol in Daniel 11:31, when “ARMS shall stand on his part” (armies for Antiochus’ side). 

Actually, what you wrote agrees with me in part.  Your quote: “Antiochus IV served as a blueprint type for that event.  He took Jerusalem with an army...”. That’s what I’m saying.  Antiochus’ ARMY served as the agency that instigated all the abominable acts listed.  It was the same in AD 66-70.  Just as Christ predicted for THAT generation (Luke 21:32-34), the Zealot ARMIES coming against Jerusalem were the chief instigators of the abominations committed in Jerusalem - not mainly the Romans, who were absent from Jerusalem for the better part of the war. 

By the way, apologies for the caps - I haven’t got access to any of the forum’s posting features, so I have to resort to caps for any emphasis.  Sorry.

Offline dpr

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #33 on: Sun Aug 05, 2018 - 13:11:06 »
Humanistic evil not having anything to do with Satanic evil or demonic evil? I didn't think it possible for anyone to be so deceived about today's world, until I read the above post.

Satan is still roaming today seeking to devour -

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV


That warning wasn't just for 1st century Christians either.

Satan is still not bound yet. Jesus warned us that Satan is coming. Rev.12:7 with the war in Heaven shows Satan with his angels cast out of the heavenly down to our earthly dimension, and he will seek to persecute the symbolic woman there (the Church). That casting out has yet to happen today.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« Reply #34 on: Sun Aug 05, 2018 - 16:56:18 »
dpr  -  Whether you agree or not, the war in heaven described in Rev. 12 is a flash-back to the time Christ’s body was in the grave for three days and three nights.  Christ forewarned His disciples on several occasions that Satan was about to be cast out of heaven and released on the earth.

John 12:31 (Five days before His crucifixion)
“NOW is the judgment of this world” (the woeful oppression of the inhabitants of earth and sea in Rev. 12:12 for a “short time”)
“NOW shall the prince of this world be cast out.”  (cast out of heaven unto the earth as in Rev. 12:9)

John 14:30. (The night before His crucifixion). “Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD COMETH, and hath nothing in me.”  (Satan was coming to the earth to “walk about like a roaring lion” for that “short time” and the “little season” after Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection.

Luke 22:53  (in the Garden of Gethsemane the night Jesus was taken)  “When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me” (because Satan, the “strong man”, was still bound during Christ’s ministry) “but THIS IS YOUR HOUR, and the POWER OF DARKNESS.”  (Satan’s power to deceive again at full capacity was about to be unchained at the end of the millennium that year of AD 33)

John 16:7-11  (Christ’s words on the night of the last supper, telling His disciples about the work the soon-coming Holy Spirit would perform)  “And when He is come, He will convince the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment...of judgment, because the Prince of this world IS JUDGED” (it would be a PAST tense fulfillment of that judgment,  once the Holy Spirit came, because Satan would have been cast out of heaven the very day a resurrected Christ became a reality)

I don’t fault you for getting your millennium mixed up, dpr - it is one of the most hotly-debated texts in scripture.  But that millennium when Satan was bound for a literal thousand years is loooong gone.  It started with the golden age for the Jews when the foundation of Solomon’s temple was laid in 967 BC, and lasted a literal thousand years until AD 33 when Christ laid the foundation stone of the new temple made of living stones.  He Himself was the foundation stone - the chief cornerstone - elect, and precious.

The millennium composed of physical temple worship was meant to be a type of the later true temple.  Satan’s ability to deceive the nations was sharply cut back during that period by the fame of the God of Israel spreading into the world’s empires.  (Think of a humbled Nebuchadnezzar’s testimony to all the nations, and a stern charge in Daniel 6:25 to worship Jehovah given by King Darius - even a humbled King Ahab.)  God used the glory of Solomon’s temple to launch the millennium, and then continued to keep Satan’s deception limited by the ministry of the many prophets that spoke in His name and wrote God’s words to pass on to the generations following.  “ The entrance of Thy words giveth light.” (Ps. 119:130)

Satan was still being bound with even more restriction while Christ was on earth casting out devils along with His disciples.  But that binding came to an end after the “First Resurrection” of Christ and the Firstfruits.  From then on, during that “short time” and “little season” from AD 33 until AD 70, Satan and the demonic realm operated at full steam, knowing their days were numbered and they would soon be crushed out of existence. 

You may wish to retain the idea of a Satanic force still operating in the world, dpr, but it is a paranoid mentality that Christ doesn’t desire for you to live by anymore.  There is plenty of scriptural testimony about Satan’s destruction at the close of the AD 70 era, but your local church is unfortunately ignorant of them. 

It would ruin book sales on the Spirit realm if people realized the truth about the demise of Satan as well as his minions.  Through fear of this creature, Mother Church has held tight control of her children.  It’s a convenient threat to keep parishioners or church members in subjection to the church’s supposed power to exorcise an entity that is no longer around.  I WAS once deceived about the supposed current existence of the Satanic realm, but after in-depth study of this topic, I have cast those delusions aside in favor of believing Christ’s assurances that this is a threat no longer hanging over our heads.  You couldn’t pay me enough to abandon the peace that this realization brings.

 

     
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