GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: Apostasy in the end times.  (Read 11975 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #70 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:32:01 »
So you don't believe salvation in the RM is like a Sine Wave?

No not at all. I don't believe that we zig zag in and out of the light when we sin. We fall and get up, fall and get up, fall and get up. If we ever fall and stay down, we have "walked away" or apostasized. Walking in the light is NOT walking sinless. I guess some in the RM believe that.

Salvation is a free gift that we accept by our faith response which includes baptism, I believe.
« Last Edit: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:37:53 by Jaime »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #70 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:32:01 »

Offline Bon Voyage

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16049
  • Manna: 408
  • Gender: Male
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #71 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:34:23 »
So you don't believe salvation in the RM is like a Sine Wave?

No not at all. I don't believe that we zig zag in and out of the light when we sin. We fall and get up, fall and get up, fall and get up. If we ever fall and stay down, we have "walked away" or apostasized. Walking in the light is NOT walking sinless. I guess some in the RM believe that.

Maybe some folks will get a math lesson today.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #71 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:34:23 »

Offline p-nut

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Manna: 2
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #72 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:38:02 »
3:4 - Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes.

There were a few people who had it.

3:2b - you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

The majority of people in Sardis were spiritually dead and needed to "wake up" to their spiritual condition and repent (v.3; “Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it and repent

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #73 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:45:02 »
3:4 - Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes.

There were a few people who had it.

3:2b - you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

The majority of people in Sardis were spiritually dead and needed to "wake up" to their spiritual condition and repent (v.3; “Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it and repent

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #73 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:45:02 »

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #74 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:45:18 »

1 Corinthians 6:19-20  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20  For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

You say we have free will and yet the Lord says we are His workmanship in Ephesians 2:10. In Philippians 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. I sure hope He doesn't restrict our pleasure, or take any of the rights of the people from us. But then If we are His work in progress, He does all the chastising needed, and doesn't get the job done, it will be His fault huh? He just lost some of us whom the Father had given Him which He said He wouldn't.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #74 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:45:18 »



Offline p-nut

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Manna: 2
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #75 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:46:57 »
John 1:12-13

Yet to all who received him to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God - children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or husband's will, but born of God (according to his will).

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #76 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:49:13 »

1 Corinthians 6:19-20  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20  For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

You say we have free will and yet the Lord says we are His workmanship in Ephesians 2:10. In Philippians 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. I sure hope He doesn't restrict our pleasure, or take any of the rights of the people from us. But then If we are His work in progress, He does all the chastising needed, and doesn't get the job done, it will be His fault huh? He just lost some of us whom the Father had given Him which He said He wouldn't.

Someone soiled the garments of salvation of some in Sardis. I assume it was a free will decision of those Sardisians. Who do you assume did it?

Offline p-nut

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Manna: 2
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #77 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:51:17 »
Quote
The key is the RECEIVED it. Meaning to me they once had it now they don't. This was talking about a church of the Lord's people not unsaved folks. They had it now they don't. They had the clean garments of salvation, but the soiled them.

Impossible for them to have RECEIVED it, they were SPIRITUALLY DEAD people. Hello!

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #78 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 20:55:07 »
Quote
The key is the RECEIVED it. Meaning to me they once had it now they don't. This was talking about a church of the Lord's people not unsaved folks. They had it now they don't. They had the clean garments of salvation, but the soiled them.

Impossible for them to have RECEIVED it, they were SPIRITUALLY DEAD people. Hello!

What are you talking about? They had once obtained white garments of salvation and THEN soiled them. They would never have had them to soil had they not once obtained them (the white garments of the overcomers). A few didn't defile their garments, the vast majority apparently did. The few will not have their names blotted out of the book of life. The majority........................you decide.

Rev 3:4  But thou hast a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments: and they shall walk with me in white; for they are worthy.
Rev 3:5  He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Offline Charles Sloan

  • Prisoner of Grace
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5403
  • Manna: 2209
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #79 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 21:38:11 »
So just so understand the procession of the discussion, since I just tuned back in, eternal salvation isn't really eternal... its conditional?

How can anyone have assurance they don't soil their garments, and how bad does someone have to sin before they are cast out?

And lastly, in essence isn't this just another form of works based salvation?

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #80 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 21:59:24 »

John 6:37-39. 
37  All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38  For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

I'm so sorry Lord Jesus that You could not keep those that the Father gave You (Jaime said so). He said they were in white and somehow soiled their garments and are no longer overcomers. Lord Jesus, does this mean that You are also going to cast them out for dirty garments, even though You promised You wouldn't for any reason?

Oh Jesus, I reckon this also means You didn't do the will of the Father and lose nothing; according to Jaime You are going to lose some of those who came to You out of Sardis. Wow Lord, who do I believe now?

Offline Charles Sloan

  • Prisoner of Grace
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5403
  • Manna: 2209
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #81 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 22:07:35 »
Phl 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

Offline farouk

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3507
  • Manna: 43
  • Gender: Male
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #82 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 22:11:16 »
CS:

Phl 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
That's a good verse. We can have confidence that the life imparted by the Spirit of God at the new birth will be sustained until the believer is called to glory.

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #83 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 05:55:57 »
Larry are you saying the Sarsdisians did not previously have white salvation garments to soil? I didn't make it up. Jesus said it. I only repeated it. There is no need to be sarcastic about scripture. The message of the 7 churches of Revelation is very poignant. I would just as soon it wasn't there, but it is. These scriptures like the scriptures on baptism are not nullified by other scriptures. We must reconcile all scripture together.

**edited for typos**
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 07:30:43 by Jaime »

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #84 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 07:29:03 »

How can anyone have assurance they don't soil their garments, and how bad does someone have to sin before they are cast out?


Charles, it's not a matter of how bad, it's whether we walk away from Christ. If we walk in the light as in 1 John, the blood of Christ covers us. Walking in the light is NOT walking sinless.  Big Big difference between walking, falling down, getting up and walking, falling and staying down. This is why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgiveable sin. It is rebellion against the Holy Spirit and it's power, ie when we walk away from God. But some say that is impossible. We disagree.
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 07:40:56 by Jaime »

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #85 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 07:41:18 »
LarryN are you saying the Sarsdisians did not previously have white salcvation garments to soil? I didn't make it up. Jesus said it. I only repeated it. There is no need to be sarcastic about scripture. The message of the 7 churches of Revelation is very poignant. Iwould just as soon it wasn't there, but it is. These scriptures like the scriptures on baptism are not nullified by other scruiptures. We must reconcile all scripture together.

I'm sorry if you thought I was being sarcastic, I didn't mean to be; I'm just old and I think we're all like that. The point I am attempting to make is that once we have come to Jesus, it says that it is the Father's will that He lose none of us. Now you can read those of Sardis any way you want to and it doesn't change the fact that it is the Father's will that Jesus don't lose us. If they have white garmets that means they are born again, and 1 Peter 1:23  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. We are incorruptible; our garmets are white.

Again it comes down to what saves us, how do we overcome the world, and are we safe in Christ. I believe we are, we have eternal life right now and that don't mean conditional to me.

I'm not sure of your theology as pertaining to the seven churches addressed in Revelation Chapters Two and Three, but they are One Church, which is the total body of Christ. The condition they find themselves in determines their ranking as to their reward as they are presently being screened by Jesus as He walks among the candlesticks where judgment begins at the house of God. There are also many in the churches that are not of the Church so to speak; chaff and wheat growing side by side. Personally I want to qualify to be a part of that Philadelphia Church, but that's what I believe; don't let it get to you.  ::smile::
 

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #86 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 07:47:15 »
Jesus still said most in Sardis soiled their garments. What garments? It would have to be the white salvation garments. These were not chaff. These were people once saved. Jesus don't want robots, he wants free will love.

I don't see a reward of any ranking for those that have soiled their clothes. I see folks that could have their name blotted out of the book of life.
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 07:55:33 by Jaime »

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #87 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 07:53:15 »
Larry, you say salvation is not conditional. What are we to do with the Walking in the Light passages of 1 John?

1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

Is this "if' statement not conditional? Again, not MY statement, but Johns.

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #88 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 08:15:06 »
Larry, you say salvation is not conditional. What are we to do with the Walking in the Light passages of 1 John?

1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

Is this "if' statement not conditional? Again, not MY statement, but Johns.

Then you must be right brother, and I won't despise you when you eat noting but herbs if you think that's the way. Like it says below: "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." God bless you in Jesus' name.   ::smile::

Romans 14:2-5
2  For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3  Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4  Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #89 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 08:32:13 »
I'm right, but I'm the weaker brother? I don't think it is necessary to go there. I just asked your opinion of a scripture. (That I didn't write).

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #90 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 08:36:10 »
The serious question should be how do we RECONCILE these scriptures, not "my scripture can beat up yours."

Offline Charles Sloan

  • Prisoner of Grace
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5403
  • Manna: 2209
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #91 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 08:37:57 »

How can anyone have assurance they don't soil their garments, and how bad does someone have to sin before they are cast out?


Charles, it's not a matter of how bad, it's whether we walk away from Christ. If we walk in the light as in 1 John, the blood of Christ covers us. Walking in the light is NOT walking sinless.  Big Big difference between walking, falling down, getting up and walking, falling and staying down. This is why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgiveable sin. It is rebellion against the Holy Spirit and it's power, ie when we walk away from God. But some say that is impossible. We disagree.

The unforgivable sin is to call Jesus unclean (Mar 3:30).

Offline Jimmy

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14574
  • Manna: 294
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #92 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 08:41:36 »
LarryN are you saying the Sarsdisians did not previously have white salcvation garments to soil? I didn't make it up. Jesus said it. I only repeated it. There is no need to be sarcastic about scripture. The message of the 7 churches of Revelation is very poignant. Iwould just as soon it wasn't there, but it is. These scriptures like the scriptures on baptism are not nullified by other scruiptures. We must reconcile all scripture together.

I'm sorry if you thought I was being sarcastic, I didn't mean to be; I'm just old and I think we're all like that. The point I am attempting to make is that once we have come to Jesus, it says that it is the Father's will that He lose none of us. Now you can read those of Sardis any way you want to and it doesn't change the fact that it is the Father's will that Jesus don't lose us. If they have white garmets that means they are born again, and 1 Peter 1:23  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. We are incorruptible; our garmets are white.

Again it comes down to what saves us, how do we overcome the world, and are we safe in Christ. I believe we are, we have eternal life right now and that don't mean conditional to me.

I'm not sure of your theology as pertaining to the seven churches addressed in Revelation Chapters Two and Three, but they are One Church, which is the total body of Christ. The condition they find themselves in determines their ranking as to their reward as they are presently being screened by Jesus as He walks among the candlesticks where judgment begins at the house of God. There are also many in the churches that are not of the Church so to speak; chaff and wheat growing side by side. Personally I want to qualify to be a part of that Philadelphia Church, but that's what I believe; don't let it get to you.  ::smile::
  

The word "church" is used in at least two different ways.  On the one hand it means the collective body of Christ.  It consists of all those whom God calls His children (Rom 8:16-17; 9:8).  On the other hand it means the Christians in a particular location, e.g., the saints in Rome (Rom 1:7).  It is likely that the reference in Revelation to the seven churches carries both connotations - the first being that there existed real historical churches at the time to which Christ was addressing his message and the second being that each church represented a divisional grouping of Christians as a whole thorughout the ages.

But signficance of those Christians who are described as being spit out by Jesus can't be minimized.  How else can it be viewed other than that they are no longer a part of Christ.

To deny the meaning and inference of apostasy or of aposticizing seems to me to be unwise.  So much of the NT is writen to correct errors. There are so many "if" statements in the NT that the conditional nature of salvation simply cannot be logically denied.  It apostasy were not an issue, Paul would never have spoken of it.  The idea that the one who eventually rejects the Holy Spirit was never really saved in the first place is nothing more than a rewrite of the meaning of salvation.  Salvation is not just the final reward of the faithful.  Salvation is a condition of the living saint.  It is a condition of being "in Christ" and having "Christ in" the saint through the indwelling Holy Spirit (Rom 8:11).

Offline Charles Sloan

  • Prisoner of Grace
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5403
  • Manna: 2209
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #93 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 08:51:23 »
Okay I am going to side with the conditional salvation argument for a moment.

Hbr 6:4-6 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.  

Verses 4 and 5 are unmistakably describing Christians, "enlightened", "tasted of the heavenly gift" and the big one "were made partakers of the Holy Ghost". You also have "tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come", so the writer of Hebrews has gone to great lengths to describe these individuals and left little to the imagination.

So how does one deny the ability for Christians to fall away in light of Hebrews 6:4-6?

Offline rezar

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
  • Manna: 77
  • Gender: Female
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #94 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 10:31:55 »
Okay I am going to side with the conditional salvation argument for a moment.

Hbr 6:4-6 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame. 

Verses 4 and 5 are unmistakably describing Christians, "enlightened", "tasted of the heavenly gift" and the big one "were made partakers of the Holy Ghost". You also have "tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come", so the writer of Hebrews has gone to great lengths to describe these individuals and left little to the imagination.

So how does one deny the ability for Christians to fall away in light of Hebrews 6:4-6?
Heb.6:4-6 is another proof that they were in the last days of the old dispensation (the old world) And the New Covenant was being mediated. The New Covenant is in Christ & depicted as "the world to come" or the New Testament age or even (the beginning of )the Christian age, which overlapped in the 1st century with the old law of Moses.

The time frame is crucial.  And if we investigate the Greek word for "world" we will find it to be "aeon" or age.  What the author of Hebrews is saying is - that it is better to accept this new Christianity, than to perish as unbelievers in the war with the Romans & Jews.

There's always people leaving their faith, but in the Scriptures before us, Paul, & John & others were relating that when Christianity was being established in the 1st century AD- some would bring another "doctrine" other than Christ. But to hold on to their original confession & profession of the Faith in Christ & no other.

John even writes in Revelation that it was too late for some not to perish in the wrath of God & the war. At that point they would have to look out for their own salvation.

Rev.22:10-11 NKJV,
10 And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11885
  • Manna: 743
  • Gender: Male
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #95 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 11:34:28 »
If one can not fall away   Turn their back on Christ  rebel against Christ after once being in Christ then some one please explain the following passages. These are to Christians.

Ye are severed from Christ, ye would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace. 5
Gal 5:4-5 (ASV)

 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:38 (KJV)

19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:19-22 (KJV)


Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11885
  • Manna: 743
  • Gender: Male
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #96 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 11:36:31 »
In the above passages it says that one can turn away after coming to Christ and tells how.

Brothers and sisters please do not be deceived it is facts from Gods word that it is possible to walk a3way from God. Those are but a few of the warnings to Christians there are many more through out the word.

Offline Jimmy

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14574
  • Manna: 294
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #97 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 12:27:37 »
In the above passages it says that one can turn away after coming to Christ and tells how.

Brothers and sisters please do not be deceived it is facts from Gods word that it is possible to walk a3way from God. Those are but a few of the warnings to Christians there are many more through out the word.

Exactly.  Paul was well aware of the dangers of falling away.  In his description the qualifications of the elders and deacons, he said, among other things,

[i ]He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. [/i]

Not a recent convert  -- that is, not one newly converted to the faith, yet clearly one who has been saved.

Condemnation of the devil  --  that is, lost in eternity.

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #98 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 12:48:15 »

I didn't mean it to come out sounding that way brother, but since we're now on keeping out robes white, what sin can soil them. Not walking in the light? Sounds like being justified by our works to me.

Titus 3:5  "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."


 

Offline rezar

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
  • Manna: 77
  • Gender: Female
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #99 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 12:52:08 »
There is always room for the backslider to come back to the Faith. Always. Until they turn a deaf ear to the Lord & continue sinning so that the Lord can take them out of this world due to sin.
Quote
Condemnation of the devil  --  that is, lost in eternity.

That may be true for Christian fundamentalists. But for Christian Universalists only the devil is lost- people are not lost in eternity.

People can be lost in this life.  And their life can be hell.  But we believe Christ finds every single last one of his sheep in the afterlife.

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #100 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 13:00:21 »
Larry, you will have to ask John what "walking in the light is like". It sounds like scripture to me.

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11885
  • Manna: 743
  • Gender: Male
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #101 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 13:40:35 »
Let me give it a shot. Walking in the Light? What is the Light? The Light is Christ/ Spirit.

The words that Christ speak are spirit and life. To walk in the light is to walk in the spirit. To walk in the spirit is to walk in the teaching of Christ. To be like Christ. To love God, neighbor, enemy, and self. To do unto others as you would have them do unto you. To read the word so as the spirit can grow you in Christ.

What is not walking in the light. To have come to God then for some reason grow distance to God to the point that you resent him hate him do not believe in him cause things did not go your way. Yo have prayed for mother not to be taken and she was then you lost faith in God because you are mad that he did not answer your prayer the way you thought and you dwell on it till it has caused you to hate God and want nothing to do with him. Was you once saved yes but you threw it away out of pride and selfish reasoning.


You found Jesus and was saved but this new style of preaching came alone and it was good to your ears and you thought it made much since but was a different gospel than what Christ gave but you were so caught up in it that you could not see past your own wisdom then you left the faith for your new found faith.

There are many ways that one can walk away and no longer walk in the light. Jesus said
 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7 (KJV)

It is clear in simple reading of that passage that if we no longer walk in the light with him the we no longer have fellowship with him or does he need to write it out on paper so we know. He made it clear the only way to have fellowship ship with him is to walk with him in the light (which is mind of Christ (his spirit))
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 13:46:41 by yogi bear »

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #102 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 14:00:19 »
Larry, you will have to ask John what "walking in the light is like". It sounds like scripture to me.

Well, I'm asking for your interpretation of walking in the light. Just how do we keep our white robes of righteousness unsoiled to you?

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #103 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 14:03:09 »
And IF we walk in the light, the blood of Christ covers our sins. (John's apparent works doctrine according to some)!

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33838
  • Manna: 755
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Apostasy in the end times.
« Reply #104 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 14:04:37 »
Our robes are kept white by the blood of Christ, IF we are walking in the light. Not my interpretation, but John's words.

 

     
anything