Christ's Olivet Discourse Are Signs For The End

[RB]

Rella, I sense a good deal of this fear in you, and RB, and robycop3, and I sincerely pity you all for living in dread and expectation of an already-fulfilled “Great Tribulation” that isn’t going to materialize in our future.  Such a waste of spiritual energy that could be spent better elsewhere.

The great tribulation that I see and hold as the truth is totally different from the Pre-mill camp. The biblical tribulation period is 100% spiritual in nature, not lasting 3 1/2 years but a period of time known strictly as a little season, etc. That little season has already begun if one is a little inform of the church's spiritual progress since the Reformation period, and has seen its decline beginning around 1800 plus or minus but there about. It has excelled even more so, since the so-called tongue movement that began in or around 1900 in Los Angles, Calfornia to where we are now at.

Your system has totally abandoned the time of Jacob's trouble by forcing it into 70 A.D. a doctrine nowhere taught in the scriptures, but saying that and proving the same is the difference between truth and error, which I have no fear of believing that it cannot be done, for it certainly can.

Sir, do not mistake fear for following God's word and preaching the same. Just because I see a TIME of trouble for God's saints, a time when the beast shall persecute and OVERCOME them, does NOT mean that I live in fear, for I can assure you that I fear not the enemies of God, per Paul.

Philippians 1:28~"And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God."

 

[Rella]

  I will never return to that view I grew up with that held me captive and traumatized me with so much fear of the future. 

Rella, I sense a good deal of this fear in you, and RB, and robycop3, and I sincerely pity you all for living in dread and expectation of an already-fulfilled “Great Tribulation” that isn’t going to materialize in our future.  Such a waste of spiritual energy that could be spent better elsewhere.

3 Resurections.

Where do you see fear? Where do you see dread for living in expectations?

I don't. Not in any of us that are notpret.

But there is something you need to fear.

You keep saying that "it all was done in 70AD". Then 'you' should be fearful of a deity that would make the end then,and then permit humanity to continue on
and continue to live in a continual downward spiral of decadence with no way
out of this life.

My friends college daughter had been attending college at the University of Ohio.
She was in womens soccer ( via scholarship) and was force out by her "lesbian" coach.

So they moved her to a PA Catholic college. (No comments) and again she was accosted by the lesbian coaching staff at the Catholic college.

Is this truly the kind of world you want your descendants to live through... IF
it all ended in 70AD, then there will be no end for your people for you keep expounding on how it was all done then.

We on the other hand, have that knowledge that though we face the trials and tribulations through life, that just like Job, God has our back through our faith in Jesus and at the end, it will be alright for us.

[3 Resurrections]

Hey RB,

Scripture’s definition of a “LONG SEASON” lasts for 40 years (Joshua 24:7 compared with Deut. 8:2).  Therefore, a “LITTLE season” would necessarily have to be shorter than that 40 years amount of time.  Therefore, a supposed “Great Tribulation” lasting from approximately AD 1800 and counting cannot be correct.

The “Jacob’s trouble” period of Jeremiah 30:7?   Never said it was in AD 70.  It was the Babylonian captivity period, which Israel and Judah would be “saved out of it” by their regathering in the post-exilic return to their homeland under the encouragement from Cyrus’ decree.

Ethnic Israel was NOT “saved out of it” when the “power of the holy people was shattered” in AD 70.  As Isaiah 65:15 prophesied, “for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name.”  (the “One New Man” mystery under the New Covenant, without any Jew and Gentile categories). 

Ethnic Israel being “slain” was more than just a “spiritual” oppression and tribulation for them.  Literal fires, starvation, and literal bloodshed prevailed in the city of Jerusalem, and plagues decimated the population in the cities and nations of the promised land of Israel.  As well as having EVERY unclean spirit, and the Devil and his angels confined in the city at that time.

The Christian population in Judea and Jerusalem who were wise heeded Christ’s warning and fled to Pella and other destinations to wait out the war and its “Great Tribulation” between AD 66-70.  With some of those Christians recorded as returning to Jerusalem afterward.   If this was ONLY a “spiritual” tribulation under consideration, then bodily fleeing Judea and the city of Jerusalem would have been an unnecessary and pointless warning.

Any tribulations the saints experience now is of a general variety, such as “in the world ye shall have tribulation.  But be of good cheer; I have overcome the world”.  And also, “All that will live godly shall suffer persecution.”  However, none of these current and on-going tribulations for Christians will ever exceed that of the AD 70 “Great Tribulation” period, immediately followed by Christ’s second coming at that time. 

We know that history on this earth was to continue after then, because Christ promised that no future tribulation would ever equal that past one - “NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE” (Matt. 24:21) in the ages following Christ’s second coming.

This should offer some reassurance to Christians of this day and age.

[Rella]

This should offer some reassurance to Christians of this day and age.

Not even close. At least not for me.

[3 Resurrections]

I’m sorry this doesn’t connect with you Rella.  I’ve been where you are on your side of eschatology  - for the majority of my life - and I will never go back to that disquieted state ever again. 

I was raised from childhood a few hundred yards down the street from Oliver B. Greene’s “Gospel Hour” ministry.  As RB says, he was militantly pre-mil disp. to the core.   I attended school in my youth at Tabernacle Christian School, and later at Southside Christian and Bob Jones where they taught the same views in KJV-only Bible classes and chapel. 

My father had a Larkin book of end-times charts that I was rabidly fascinated with as a very young person.   Likewise a book on devils and angels that I devoured as a teenager.  Chick tracts were my “comic books”.   Bunyan’s “Holy War” and the “Children’s Pilgrim’s Progress”, and C.S. Lewis’ “Screwtape Letters” I regarded as flawless as the Bible.  “Martyr of the Catacombs”, and “Quo Vadis” about Nero’s persecution were absolute young teen favorites. 

The whole typical “rapture” theme played in my head to the point where I was petrified that I was “left behind” whenever my mom delayed picking us up for any length of time.  Torture for a young child’s thinking, with the dancing flames of a perpetual torment in Hell to give added panic to the whole lurid picture.

If I can spare just one young person from going through that same ghastly, misplaced fear of a horrid “Armageddon” and ”Great Tribulation” in their future, (which are already over and done with), it will be worth it for me. 

And Rella, I have never said that “ALL without exception” was fulfilled by AD 70.  There IS a culmination point at a final THIRD physical resurrection in our future - in AD 3033 to be precise, at the time the Feast  of Tabernacles would have ordinarily been celebrated under the Old Covenant (as Zechariah 14:16-19 highlights for us). 

Everything “WRITTEN” about the end of the OC age was fulfilled (not the so-called “end of time”).  But you know that not all prophesies were written down.  Those prophesies in Rev. 10:4 were not written, but were sealed up and reserved for a later fulfillment AFTER AD 70’s resurrection and judgment had come and gone.  Those “sealed up” prophesies included our times and future.

If you, like RB, see nothing but a “downward spiral of decadence”, you are concentrating on looking at just a mere sliver of time, compared to the overall spectrum of God’s planned intentions for the good and ultimate growth of His kingdom in this world.  Be patient, and stay on your knees.  The wind of the Spirit of God is still blowing where it will do what God intends it to do before the end of the last, 7th millennium arrives for humanity.

[Rella]

If I can spare just one young person from going through that same ghastly, misplaced fear of a horrid “Armageddon” and ”Great Tribulation” in their future, (which are already over and done with), it will be worth it for me. 

And Rella, I have never said that “ALL without exception” was fulfilled by AD 70.  There IS a culmination point at a final THIRD physical resurrection in our future - in AD 3033 to be precise, at the time the Feast  of Tabernacles would have ordinarily been celebrated under the Old Covenant (as Zechariah 14:16-19 highlights for us). 

You could be almost convincing. ALMOST.

You blew it with AD 3033 to be precise, at the time the Feast  of Tabernacles would have ordinarily been celebrated under the Old Covenant

Naming dates.  You know your bible better then that.

If you, like RB, see nothing but a “downward spiral of decadence”, you are concentrating on looking at just a mere sliver of time,

This is ONE thing RB and I agree on.

From the creation of Adam to the day I breath my last breath IS a mere sliver in time in the great span of time, HOWEVER ,from the very moment Eve took a bite of the forbidden fruit there has been nothing less then a downward spiral and it will NOT be halted or slowed in my remaining time on earth. NOR yours.

 compared to the overall spectrum of God’s planned intentions for the good and ultimate growth of His kingdom in this world.  Be patient, and stay on your knees.

A wishful pipe dream on your part.

The wind of the Spirit of God is still blowing where it will do what God intends it to do

Is about the only statement of yours I can agree with.

before the end of the last, 7th millennium arrives for humanity.

[/size]

[3 Resurrections]

Hey again Rella,

I debated a bit before inserting the 3033 date, simply because I know this is offensive to you, and I don’t want this to be a Harold Camping type of thing.   You will not find a Full Preterist making a date prediction, which is one of the differences between my paradigm and theirs.

I, too, was always told that it is almost the consummate evil to posit a date for Christ’s final return.  Then I read LaSpino3’s post on this website where he pointed out that the phrase “no man knoweth the day nor the hour” is clearly a verb written in PRESENT TENSE FORM for those Christ was THEN speaking to.  It’s very true that no one at that particular time in Christ’s earthly ministry knew the day nor the hour of Christ’s return, but that state of ignorance for the disciples and for Christ Himself and the angels didn’t last forever.  John was already telling the saints that it was “the last HOUR” in I John 2:18.  James 5:8-9 said the judge was already standing “before the door” at that point.  And I Peter 4:7 said that the “end of all things was at hand”, or present at that time to those reading that epistle.  Then John’s apocalypse gave a full rundown of the unsealed prophesies for their future that were all THEN “AT HAND”.

When we read this “no man knoweth” phrase, it actually never even suggests that it is sinful to seek to know the time Christ returns. 

Look at it this way.  Suppose I said “No man knoweth who will be elected president.”  Will that statement ALWAYS be true?  Of course not.  We will know after this coming election.  Does that mean that we should not even attempt by polls, debates, and interviews to find out who is likely to win the presidency?  Again, of course not. 

Same thing with our fervent desire to be face-to-face with our Lord Jesus.  He doesn’t forbid us to seek knowing the time He will come for the rest of His saints.  Like yourself, it is hard for me to wait, but every indication I can see in scripture tells me that we have quite a way to go yet.

As for the pessimism you have regarding the world’s state of affairs that you present as continuing to spiral downward ever since creation, I can’t agree.  If we look only at the unregenerate hearts of mankind alone and their actions, that would depress anybody’s focus.  But that focus on sinful man discounts the effect of the Spirit of God’s steadily increasing work among the nations of the world, ever since the Fall.

God used to “wink”, so to speak, at the “times of ignorance” among pagan nations during the first few millennia, but since Jesus came to earth, He “commanded all men everywhere to repent”.  The 4th millennium of human history (1,000 years of a physical Temple worship system from Solomon’s Temple up to Christ the True Temple) was saturated with the ministry of the prophets’ work, both spoken and written.   “The entrance of thy words giveth light”, we are told, regardless of whether those words of the prophets were obediently followed by all or not.

With the passing of the Old Covenant and the establishment of the New Covenant, another upsurge for the kingdom of God occurred.  Especially when the demonic realm was destroyed along with the decayed elements of that Old Covenant.  As a consequence of an eradicated demonic realm, Isaiah 65:17 could prophetically describe conditions under our present New Covenant Ages as “New Heavens and a new Earth”, wherein dwelleth righteousness (although righteousness was not promised to be a universal, worldwide condition (yet) in this present NHNE of Isaiah and II Peter 3:13).

At the final resurrection and judgment, I believe God will return to “clean house” by purging out the human sources of evil remaining in this world, just as He already purged demonic evil out of it back in AD 70.  It’s a slow, incremental progress over the millennia, with all the credit going to God’s influence of His Spirit who is now dwelling within the hearts of regenerate mankind.

You can’t see the leaven of the kingdom actively working within the dough, but it’s there nonetheless, and very much alive.  Give it time to develop.  God doesn’t zap the world into a righteous state instantaneously; He puts His treasure into “earthen vessels” and uses time and tribulations to work His best designs.

[RB]

I was raised from childhood a few hundred yards down the street from Oliver B. Greene’s “Gospel Hour” ministry.  As RB says, he was militantly pre-mil disp. to the core.   I attended school in my youth at Tabernacle Christian School, and later at Southside Christian and Bob Jones where they taught the same views in KJV-only Bible classes and chapel. 

I was not taught that as a young youth, but happened to start out my Chrisitan journey being taught the same since we both lived very close to each other and even worshipped together for a time, known more by you than myself since I cannot put a name on you.... yet you know me.

I will add that my heart truly goes out toward you in all sincerity before God, knowing that your faith has caused serious friction in your marriage with your wife and maybe others close to you. Whether we agree or not, I still admire any person willing to stand firm on what he sees, UNTIL overwhelming evidence is presented to him/her, and then, that person must bear their own burden before God and the consequences that come with our faith, right or wrong. God is faithful and merciful and will not withhold the truth from any soul that truly, and diligently search for it as one would do for hidden treasure. If that person looks to the scriptures ALONE for his truth, which sad to say, those that have fallen prey to Pretistism do not do so, (for they NEED history to help support their doctrine and to give it ANY credibility)....  At least many of the Premill camp do, yet they also trust men above the scriptures which is a dangerous thing to do, for it will lead one into a lie if they do not try every spirit with God's witness to the truth on every doctrine preached under the heavens. 

Also, I will add maybe JRC (you know whom I'm speaking about) was the first person that lead you down this road on which you now believe for he's Preterist, yet refuses to acknowledge that he is.

I will add that BJU is not a "KJV only" school, never has been~Tabernacle is and still is as far as I know. I once heard Bob Jones "the second" call KJV "only" as dangerous as the Jehovah's Witnesses. All he accomplished with me was to prove to me just how dangerous he WAS! Of course that was maybe forty-five years ago, or longer. I haven't listened to their station (FM 94.5 WMUU) in many, many years and I have not missed a thing. I do listen to 91.5 FM Tabernacle's station~more to keep up with what's going on, surely not for the meat of the word! If you heard one of them, you have heard all of them.

Let me read your post again and then comment later.  May God be merciful to all who in sincerity and with a heart that seeks to please only him, to guide all of them into his blessed truths, and may we all in MEEKNESS instruct those who oppose the truth, I will add, you seem to be very good at this, with your sincere humble and gracious spirit which I have taken notice of. RB   

[RB]

This is ONE thing RB and I agree on.

Just "one" thing?  and we would agree always! Or, like I tell my wife..."honey, just be reasonable and do it MY WAY" 

[lea]

Okay, you always claim all of Rev has been fulfilled because if John wrote it prior to 70 AD and not in 96 as I contend then all has to have been fulfilled.

So here area few verses that need interpreted and need to be explained to any non-pret. as to when in the 40 years from crucifixion to "your" second coming this happened.

from Rev 6:8 (the 7 seals)
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

The images of the horses and horsemen betokened the coming Wrath provisions of God's Covenant with Israel. In Jer. 5 the prophet threatened Judah with pestilence, famine the sword and the arrow. Same comparison is seen in Ezek.5-7.
The seals in Rev.6 predicted the outpouring of Covenant Wrath, in fulfillment of the O.T. Law of Blessings and Cursings. It's not about the end of time, etc, but with the last days of Old Covenant Judah- the destruction of the city that has "violated the everlasting Covenant" (Isaiah 24:4-12) And it was to be swept away so that the Heavenly Jerusalem could be revealed!

And lets talk about the rest of this chapter....

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 Those vss are self-explanatory. These are the martyrs.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


7 :1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

8:13

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!  (If this was written before 70AD there still is a futuristic phrophetic message in this verse alone)

Whenever God does something big, there is thunder, lightnings, and great commotions. Stars falling to earth symbolize the host of heaven falling, the same metaphorical, hyperbolic language as seen in Isa,.34:4.  Jesus described in similar language the destruction of Jerusalem in Matt.24:29,30, 34.

The kings of the earth, etc. in vs 15 is referring to what Jesus told Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin (about what would come up them) that they would see Him sitting at the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Even Felix (Roman precept) "trembled" when he heard Paul reason in righteousness, temperance, and the judgment about to come. (Acts.24:24,25)

And all of Chapter 9.

That will take more time than just saying"and all of ch.9." If you understand symbolism, there is much in that ch. For instance, "trees are metaphors for people too in the O.T. The whole calamity of the attack in the war is seen in the 7's. From seal #1- 6 are simply metaphors used to describe different aspects of the same thing. Rev. repeats itself but adds new horrors in each calamity scene as it progresses to #7.[/b]

You cannot explain these in your temple destruction beliefs.... because they have not happened yet.

Oh I could go on, I have studied this for many years.  It's all in the past, but I'll indulge in the "end time" stuff when I'm bored.

[dpr]

Agreed.......not sure your meaning of 7 signs of Revelation, for there is much in Revelation that could be added to, or agrees with what is in Daniel 7-12; Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; along with 2nd Thess. chapter 2; 2nd Timothy 3:1-4:5, etc. Respectfully must disagree. I once believed the same back around forty years ago~but change my understanding as more light was afforded to me from God, to which I'm very thankful.

The signs in Christ's Revelation are an expansion of the same 7 Signs He gave in His Olivet discourse. The best parallel is with Rev.6 with the Seals. The last Sign He gave is about the event of His 2nd coming.

I doubt that what you 'used to believe' is about what I'm talking about.


The Book of Daniel does have many direct parallels to latter day prophecy in both Christ's Olivet discourse and His Book of Revelation. So I don't know where you're trying to go with that idea. Like I said, I doubt what you said you 'used to believe' has much to do with what I'm pointing to in God's Word as written.

THIS generation is explain for us by Jesus Christ himself, "if" we listen carefully to his discourse on when these things shall come to pass.

And I covered that, showing the Scripture. It's very simple to read, He said all those things must happen before that generation would pass, and He said that in relation to all those SIGNS He gave there. What was the very last Sign He gave there in His Olivet discourse? Yes, His 2nd coming! And He gave the Signs of this present world earth age passing along with that. Very difficult to try and move that timing back in history.

The main thought of Matthew 24 is Jesus' warning (as well as Paul in 2nd Thess chapter two)  for us not allow any man to deceive us by any means~MAINLY the multitudes of false prophets that shall come in the latter days of the LAST DAY.

In Christ's Olivet discourse, in 2 Thess.2 by Paul, they both hint at the subject of 1 John 2:18 about antichrist vs. many antichrists. Including Rev.13, all 3 examples reveal a specific singular false one working great signs and miracles to deceive the whole world, and also the idea of his followers who claim to be Christ.

In Matthew 24:4-5 Lord Jesus is warning us about the idea of the "many antichrists" that are already at work. Those were the false messiahs of history, and the fakes claiming to be Jesus all the way up to our times. But they are not 'the Antichrist' that John also showed in 1 John 2:18 with saying those he spoke that to had 'already' heard that "antichrist' shall come. The Matthew 24:23-26 section is speaking of that coming singular Antichrist for the end, as he is to work great signs and wonders that IF possible, would deceive even Christ's very elect. Clearly, that Antichrist is different than those many who don't have that power to work miracles, but only 'say' they are Christ.

So we are to distinguish between the coming "antichrist", and the "many antichrists" John and Paul said are already at work (Paul showed this in 2 Thess.2 when he said the "mystery of iniquity" was already at work).

Secondly, coming with these false prophets are their converts who are just like them..."a generation of little serpents", who shall overtake the churches (in Judea of Matthew 24~is like saying the place where God is worship) as it was in the OT~earthly Jerusalem being that ordained place to worship God, proven by many OT scriptures and some from the NT.

From Matthew 24:5 down to verse 25 (and Mark 13:14)  the theme is false prophets and their many followers standing where they OUGHT NOT TO BE~that is RULING in the churches of Judea, changing the doctrines of the word of God to fit their own fleshly desires, of a god that they have created in their own depraved heart. When the very elect sees this Abomination in the temple of God, they flee from it and those that are entering therein, they WARNED them against doing so. See Luke 21:21!

No, Jesus wasn't speaking of many with the idea of the "abomination of desolation" standing in the "holy place" where it ought not. He was speaking of an idol abomination inside the temple setup in false worship. That is... the THEME for the latter days, in the Book of Daniel where He quoted from, and in His Revelation, specifically in Rev.13 where the "image of the beast" idol abomination for the end is revealed. So this is not a THEME for just a few verses in Matthew 24; it's connected in many Bible scriptures about the end of this world.

"THIS" generation that shall not pass is the generation of evil and wicked men, they shall INCREASE GREATLY in numbers before Jesus returns the SECOND time. Generation is NOT speaking of TIME but PEOPLE and the phrase THIS GENERATION in the scriptures for the MOST PART always has reference to a generation of evil wicked men, in opposition to the chosen generation of the special people of God. God defines his own words, not Mr. Webster, even though in his own right was brilliant. Generation=PEOPLE, NOT time! There is only two generations of people living in this world, one is chosen and righteous; one is reprobate and wicked the enemy of God and his people. The world will increase greatly toward its end with mostly the generation of wicked men in power BOTH in religion and in secular power. Except those days be shortened then NO FLESH would be saved WITH THE TRUE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD! We are just about there even as I speak, BUT, who truly believes this to be so? Not very many, and less every day we live.

No, Lord Jesus made it much more simple than that. He pointed directly to the generation that would 'see' ALL THOSE SIGNS He gave. The very last SIGN He gave was that of His 2nd coming. That of course means He was speaking that for the FINAL GENERATION of peoples living upon this earth that will SEE His return as written. And what was revealed in Rev.1 as to who all would see Him coming in the clouds? Even those who pierced Him will see His coming in the clouds back to earth. That has NEVER happened, not even to THIS present day.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

The Western Wall was part of Herod's extension project of the 2nd temple.

Impossible.  History records that the entirety of Jerusalem was razed to the ground before the emperor Hadrian built a new city - Aelia Capitolina - on the site.

Jarrod

[RB]

I doubt that what you 'used to believe' is about what I'm talking about.

I'm marking this so I can come back later to answer your post. RB