Christ Has Returned Already?

[kensington]

by dp,

Nor will Christ's enemies be persuaded towards peace and good will towards mankind. His enemies will continue to serve their father the devil, and one of the devil's titles is The Destroyer (Rev.9). For this reason, there will be Judgment at His return, and He will take vengeance upon all those who have mocked and slandered Him. It will be a fearful thing to come under His rod punishment.

Another attempt by satan to insult our intelligence. False prophecy is all you know.

I think Admin made a mistake to start this thread....  no one is discussing anything..  just rude insults and crude remarks to those who post. 

This is sad.   

[rezar]

by dp,

Nor will Christ's enemies be persuaded towards peace and good will towards mankind. His enemies will continue to serve their father the devil, and one of the devil's titles is The Destroyer (Rev.9). For this reason, there will be Judgment at His return, and He will take vengeance upon all those who have mocked and slandered Him. It will be a fearful thing to come under His rod punishment.

Another attempt by satan to insult our intelligence. False prophecy is all you know.

I think Admin made a mistake to start this thread....  no one is discussing anything..  just rude insults and crude remarks to those who post. 

This is sad.   

What i find even sadder is that some Christians cannot separate Church from State. They do not accept history & reality & make all Christians look uneducated & delusional as they when they try to prophesy 2,000 yr. old events into future sci-fi, no less, yet with a "Jesus returning" spin on it!

Are you challenging my pov, kensington?

Deut.18:22,
22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Luke 11:49-50,
49Because of this, God in his wisdom said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.' 50Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,

Mt.24:31-34,
 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

So, kensington, did Christ tell the truth?  Or did He tell His disciples to watch & pray with their lives, for an event thousands of yrs. off, & irrelevant to their lives?

Don't feel sad about it. Think please!

In His service,
rezar

[HRoberson]

Will Preterists please explain the global nature of the following prophecies, and how they could possibly all apply to the destruction of Jerusalem?

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. 3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. 4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments. 8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Just an observation.....apocalyt ic language is usually cosmic or global in nature. When God speaks of judgement in the OT, the imagery is massive or global. But it only applies to a backwater of the globe.

Revelation is in the same genre; we should expect it to be parallel.

[Kevin-2012]

And you find fault in me when this nonsense floats around!!

[kensington]

by dp,

Nor will Christ's enemies be persuaded towards peace and good will towards mankind. His enemies will continue to serve their father the devil, and one of the devil's titles is The Destroyer (Rev.9). For this reason, there will be Judgment at His return, and He will take vengeance upon all those who have mocked and slandered Him. It will be a fearful thing to come under His rod punishment.

Another attempt by satan to insult our intelligence. False prophecy is all you know.

I think Admin made a mistake to start this thread....  no one is discussing anything..  just rude insults and crude remarks to those who post. 

This is sad.   

What i find even sadder is that some Christians cannot separate Church from State. They do not accept history & reality & make all Christians look uneducated & delusional as they when they try to prophesy 2,000 yr. old events into future sci-fi, no less, yet with a "Jesus returning" spin on it!

Are you challenging my pov, kensington?

Deut.18:22,
22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Luke 11:49-50,
49Because of this, God in his wisdom said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.' 50Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,

Mt.24:31-34,
 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

So, kensington, did Christ tell the truth?  Or did He tell His disciples to watch & pray with their lives, for an event thousands of yrs. off, & irrelevant to their lives?

Don't feel sad about it. Think please!

In His service,
rezar

I don't know what all that was about....  and I don't even care.  Admin...  What were you thinking??  ROTFLOL!

[Scoobydoo]

Greetings in Christ from now sunny Texas,

There is a movement in our land identified as the 70ad theory which wants to have Christ coming back in 70 AD. Over the years that comes to the forefront and then sort of disappears for a while.
A lot folks believe that even though that is not taught in scripture.

Since Christ is "right now" and right now begins at "pentecost" reigning and ruling..so are the Christians who are His by faith and obedience to His gospel.

Being in Christ means that we also reign and rule with Christ...but here is the problem. The Jews of the days of Jesus rejected Him as their Messiah because He did not conform to their man made scribal law view of their Messiah.  They then and folks still do today want and earthly physical kingdom and that is not what is taught. We are the new priesthood--we are the new covenant people of God and with Christ we reign and we rule-- -- but not over other people.

Now, if Jesus did not conform to the lost people of God's view of the Messiah what makes anyone believe that He will do so today?

[Amo]

Just an observation.....apocalyt ic language is usually cosmic or global in nature. When God speaks of judgement in the OT, the imagery is massive or global. But it only applies to a backwater of the globe.

Revelation is in the same genre; we should expect it to be parallel.

That is exactly what I would believe, if I did not want to accept a final global judgement and end to this present world.  However, the bible clearly teaches the same.  It is more likely that the old testament prophecies that you are referring to, do actually point to the final global judgement, and the end of this world.  The backwater stuff that you are talking about from the old testament, are smaller types of the global and universal fulfillment of the new covenant era, which God gave the old covenant prophets glimpses of.

The old covenant centered around literal Israel, and the literal nations around her, and the struggles between the same.  The new covenant centers around spiritual Israel, and all the nations of the earth in relation to the same.  The blessings that were once upon literal Israel are now opened up to all of every nation, language, and people who accept Christ as their Savior and King, spiritual Israel.  Their commission is to bring the gospel to all the world, and then the end shall come.  Their battle is no longer literal against literal nations, but against the spiritual deceptions and principalities of this world.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

These are the things the new covenant prophecies deal with, of which, much of the old covenant prophecies were merely types and shadows.  Though not all.  Yet still, some of the local and literal prophecies of the old testament, were also types and shadows of the larger global and universal prophecies of the new covenant era.



 

[Corbley]

Those who believe that Christ returned in 70ad.....Please explain how the following prophecies had taken place..
The Euphraties river drying up and and Army of 200 million march along.
(Today the Euphraties has a Dam and China has a military (reserve) totalling more than 125million....combined with other nations from Asia there could easily be an Army of 200 million)   There was not even 200 million people in Asia in 70 ad

Next try to explain a world government.....The Roman Empire did not rule the world (just a large part of it)

Can't you people see with your own eyes....Events described in the bible are coming to pass before your eyes.  OPEN them
Stop closing your mind that Gods infinate Grace has delayed Daniels 70th week untill now

[rezar]

by Corbley,

Next try to explain a world government.....The Roman Empire did not rule the world (just a large part of it)

Can't you people see with your own eyes....Events described in the bible are coming to pass before your eyes.  OPEN them
Stop closing your mind that Gods infinate Grace has delayed Daniels 70th week untill now

Corbley, these statements are a concern. You know, i hope & pray God will help you to close your mind on certain things. An "end of the world" mindset can be dangerous.

I answered your question about the # 200 million being a hyperbole for effect.  And the Euphrates "dried up" just meaning figuratively that the armies or those tributaries of Rome (who hadn't received a kingdom yet) would find easy passage anyway, despite the rivers- to get to Israel, during the war.

And on the other thread, you keep calling rezar a "he" when i & others have pointed out that simple error- yet you continue to post as if you aren't in touch.

I pray you will lean toward reality & preterism- where non-fiction is the answer- in & to & from the prophecies.  Now & later!

[Corbley]

by Corbley,

Next try to explain a world government.....The Roman Empire did not rule the world (just a large part of it)

Can't you people see with your own eyes....Events described in the bible are coming to pass before your eyes.  OPEN them
Stop closing your mind that Gods infinate Grace has delayed Daniels 70th week untill now

Corbley, these statements are a concern. You know, i hope & pray God will help you to close your mind on certain things. An "end of the world" mindset can be dangerous.

I answered your question about the # 200 million being a hyperbole for effect.  And the Euphrates "dried up" just meaning figuratively that the armies or those tributaries of Rome (who hadn't received a kingdom yet) would find easy passage anyway, despite the rivers- to get to Israel, during the war.

And on the other thread, you keep calling rezar a "he" when i & others have pointed out that simple error- yet you continue to post as if you aren't in touch.

I pray you will lean toward reality & preterism- where non-fiction is the answer- in & to & from the prophecies.  Now & later!

You have explained nothing except what you believe to be true...I do not share that belief

[Jaime]

Preterist have a cinch explanation for everything. If something is in scriptue they can"t explain, they "spiritualize" it and say it means such and such other than what it clearly says. Handy, huh?

[Jaime]

Somehow to a preterist, the prophecies of Christ's first coming are literal, but the one's about his second coming are symbolic of something else.

**edited for spelling**

[BondServant]

Yea, I noticed the same thing, Jaime!

In Christ,
KP

[Firewing]

I don't think Christ has returned to take his followers to heaven yet.

The Bible speaks that he will come "like a thief in the night"..We won't really know when.

But think of this: If he did come to take his followers, wouldn't we know *after* he came?.  It all depends on how he takes his followers.  Does he take the soul? or the soul and body?.

If he took the soul and body, we would have heard news stories from across the planet about large amounts of missing people.  We would also hear about massive amounts accidents happening like on highways or streets (If the follower was driving and he was taken in the middle of that).

If Jesus just took the soul, and left the body on earth, we'd be hearing numerous news reports about people collapsing during their work day, or driving and causing an accident. 

Unless Jesus does this in a very clean fashion - by taking souls up to heaven when that person is at home, safe, and sleeping so there wouldn't be accidents or stuff like that.

[Charles Sloan]

Christ Has Returned Already?

No.