Author Topic: I will give Gog a buriel place.  (Read 2548 times)

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Bikelite

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I will give Gog a buriel place.
« on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 10:10:03 »
This is very interesting read Ezekiel 39:11.. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea. and it shall stop the noses of the passengers, and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude , and they shall call it the valley of Hamon-Gog. WOW do you get it ... East of the sea is Jordan but God calls it Israel.... So is the borders of Israel going to expand  very soon some where before the Ezekiel war ? Very ... Very Interesting!

son of God

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #1 on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 10:17:44 »
I think that when one goes through history, it is seen that this already happened.

But, as in much of the Word, it is yet seen to be future by most.

Even as Peter quoted Joel, and said that it was then happening/happend in their midst.  But to read the passage in Joel, everyone assumes it is yet to come.

Apparently, in the Spirit, an understanding that is contrary to the church is correct, as evidenced in the Word itself. 

Can that be possible?

Do the math.

Bikelite

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #2 on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 10:21:29 »
Please read the bible properly ,not what you want it to say... And it shall come to pass in that day...

son of God

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 10:26:16 »
what day was it speaking of?

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 10:26:16 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Bikelite

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 10:27:11 »
future. I am just going to sit back and watch the hand of God in prophecy.. you can see it coming like a truck down the middle of the road but many people are in denile so put your head back in the sand ,I will watch for you.

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 10:27:11 »



son of God

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #5 on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 10:33:15 »
When we read the first words in chapter 39, we see that it is a continuance of the previous chapter.  So go back to chapter 38.  It is very, very foolhardy to not do so.  We must look at this passage, chapters 38 and 39, as a whole, as it was given as a whole: God didn't divide it into chapters, but gave it as ONE word from Himself.

Now that that is done, and the two chapters are studied out, it is then proper to look at any other chapters in Ezekiel that are pertinent. 

Now that that is done, it is proper to look at the rest of the OT regarding anything with Gog.  As Gog is also mentioned with Magog, it is thus proper to look at the passages pertaining to Magog. 

Now that that is done, it is proper to look at the NT regarding it. 

If you haven't done this, looking at all readily apparent pertinent passages throughout the Word of God, then why would anyone post as to having any kind of position on it whatsoever?

Let alone decry one for making such requirements!

Do the math, friend.

Sometimes I can't help but wonder about the church and it's deplorable practices, yet how it so strongly asserts that it understands the word of God.  It's amazing.

Bikelite

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #6 on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 10:37:54 »
I am not here to argue with you , your not worth it,If you look at the bible and you look at whats going on in the world its like looking in a mirror and if you cant see it and figure it out... well thats too bad. and then you want to fight about your ignorance.... NO I dont think so.

son of God

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #7 on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 10:44:50 »
So then what's your take on chapters 38, 39 and their explanation of it?  Show me your position with the verses that substantiate it, pleasee.  Obviously I need to learn, so teach me.  Surely you can explain that to an ignorant like me!  Thanks.

And that wasn't arguing: I stated that I didn't agree with your statement.  I then stated that history would tend to support my position.  I then stated the natural way to study the Word, to verify if we are seeing it correctly.  

Was that grounds for your retort?  Hmmm.  I expect better than that from one who knows the word.  

Thanks.

Offline whirlwind

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #8 on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 17:41:01 »
The Battle of Haman-gog speaks of Russia and America.  That is one of the reasons it is vital to know exactly who Israel is...all of Israel, not just the house of Judah...the Jews. 

Bikelite

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #9 on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 17:51:38 »
Russia and America... it just gets better and better ... these people .. call themselves Christians and read the bible? sorry understand the bible?
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 18:01:32 by Bikelite »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #10 on: Mon Jan 25, 2010 - 18:46:41 »
This is very interesting read Ezekiel 39:11.. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea. and it shall stop the noses of the passengers, and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude , and they shall call it the valley of Hamon-Gog. WOW do you get it ... East of the sea is Jordan but God calls it Israel.... So is the borders of Israel going to expand  very soon some where before the Ezekiel war ? Very ... Very Interesting!
"The Sea" is the Mediterranean in the Bible.  The Dead Sea is referred to as the "Salt Sea" when it is mentioned.

The "Valley of the Passengers" is the large valley through which the king's highway ran - it is literally the only passage from Europe/Asia to Africa/Egypt without sidetracking hundreds of miles through the desert.  The valley has some other names, of course...  Jezreel...  Megiddo... Armageddon.

Bikelite

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #11 on: Mon Jan 25, 2010 - 19:11:47 »
O really are these more Man words? and may be ... but in the bible there is .. like beast....  the anti.. and a lion... whats your point. even a women rides on a beast... the Ghost has to give you the meaning ... not like some shallow thoughts.
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 25, 2010 - 19:18:15 by Bikelite »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #12 on: Mon Jan 25, 2010 - 19:28:58 »
Ok.  Ask Him.  I'll wait.

Bikelite

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #13 on: Mon Jan 25, 2010 - 19:46:33 »
Megiddo and where Russia is going to be put to rest are two diff .. places and two diff wars.. you knew that RIGHT! and then what about P83/I17 war.... O MY......MY>>>>>MY what are we talking about ...... get some good Theology ... and then come back PLEASE!

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #14 on: Mon Jan 25, 2010 - 19:48:32 »
What does Russia have to do with it?  I thought we were reading the Bible and not the "words of man."

PS. You really ought to ask Him.  I told you I'd wait.

Bikelite

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #15 on: Mon Jan 25, 2010 - 19:51:00 »
AT least your that smart. I just pulled your finger ... as they say get some good home made cooking and get out of KFC... my friend.

Offline p-nut

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #16 on: Mon Jan 25, 2010 - 22:41:01 »
Eze. 39:11 is difficult to get a handle on, both the NIV and KJV agree Gog and his hordes are buried in Israel and it occurs on/in the future day of the Lord. The KJB has Gog buried in the “valley of the passengers on the east of the sea,

Offline p-nut

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #17 on: Tue Jan 26, 2010 - 00:40:36 »
Further east on the Arnon River where the Kings Highway crosses over it. Maybe the burial of Gog and his hordes in the valley shown on the map will block the way of the travelers on the highway.

http://bibleatlas.org/areapages/hamonah.htm

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #18 on: Tue Dec 22, 2020 - 08:49:41 »
Just for the sake of a bit of topic variety this morning, I’ll get a comment going on this ancient post...

There is one “Valley” in Israel that is of equal notoriety besides the valley of Jezreel, and it’s the Jordan Valley at the top of the Dead Sea.  This Jordan Valley, or the disc-shaped “Kikar of Jordan” is the lush valley that Lot looked upon with Abraham in Genesis 13:10.  It was “well watered everywhere” and was the plain where Sodom and Gomorrah and a cluster of other cities sat, just to take advantage of the trade route’s traffic flow that came up from along the east side of the Dead Sea (the “passengers on the east of the sea”), and then crossed through the Jordan Valley on their way north.  And we know that God destroyed all these cities of the Jordan plain by raining fire from heaven upon them.

This Jordan Valley was also where 24,000 of the disobedient Israelites of the Exodus were buried after their sin in the matter of Baal-peor.  Balaam had caused them to sin and God punished the nation for that offense, with the dead from that judgment being buried in the Jordan Valley.  God later had to remind Israel of that former offense in Jeremiah 2:23 LXX.  “How wilt thou say I am not polluted and have not gone after Baal?  Behold thy ways in THE BURIAL GROUND” (or the VALLEY - of Jordan, that is), “and know what thou hast done.”

Moses was also buried on Mount Nebo which overlooks this Valley below.  So this Jordan Valley seems to be a sort of epicenter of judgment for offenses against God.  A graveyard memorial, warning others against committing such offenses.

It was also where the multitude of Gog was buried after the AD 70 civil war conflict that the “chief prince” engaged in.  This was Israelites battling their fellow Israelites, because Ezekiel 38:21 said that “every man’s sword shall be against HIS BROTHER’S” in this battle.  All of Gog’s army would be “handling swords” (Ezekiel 38:4), which was the typical weapon of choice for the Zealots and the sicarii factions who battled each other for supremacy in the AD 66-70 years.

GOG is defined for us in Balaam’s prophecy that God gave him, found in Numbers 25:7-9 in the LXX.  “...and the kingdom of GOG shall be exalted, and his kingdom shall be increased.  God brought him out of Egypt...they that bless thee are blessed and they that curse thee are cursed.”

So for GOG to come against Israel was for a chief prince of ISRAEL to assemble a multi-nation army to go to battle against other Israelites.  Which was certainly true of the various Zealot leaders who competed with each other to prey upon their own people, as well as upon other nations in Israel such as Samaria and Idumea. 

Jesus Himself predicted when this civil unrest would begin to simmer in Israel.   “For FROM HENCEFORTH there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.  The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father...” (Luke 12:52-53).  Zealotry had already begun working during Christ’s days (as Paul said “the mystery of lawlessness doth already work”), and would become an increasingly dangerous element in Israel until it finally broke out in open revolt against Rome in AD 66.  Those of their fellow Israelites who would not join in the rebellion against Rome likewise became a target for Zealot anger and attack.

“Galilee of the Gentiles” in the north quarter of Israel was the hotbed that bred many of the Zealot leaders (Acts 5:37 for example).  That’s why the “chief prince” would come out of “his place in the north parts” (Galilee in Israel) and cover the land of Israel like a cloud (Ez. 38:15-16). 

Gog’s army eventually came to the mountains of Israel (which surround Jerusalem), where only a sixth of his vast army eventually survived after God caused their death.   

In real time, Simon bar Giora became the Zealot leader with the largest army of all his Zealot competitors.  At its peak, Simon’s army numbered some 40,000 by the time he brought his army to sit outside Jerusalem in AD 69.  Once inside, Simon became a tyrant that overrode the other Zealot factions and oppressed the city’s imprisoned inhabitants.

When Titus finally brought the Roman siege to a close in AD 70, Simon bar Giora’s army had been decimated.  He was captured on the temple grounds dressed in royal garments, and brought to Rome as the main leader of the rebellion to be executed after the Roman triumph. 

To “cleanse the land” of its dead which had been picked over by the birds, during seven literal months all corpses and skeletal remains that Israel’s  searching “undertakers” located were brought to the Jordan Valley for burial. 

Such meticulous care to remove all skeletal remains from the land was a sign that the Israelites back then were still trying to follow the Mosaic laws of ritual cleanliness that forbad contact with a dead body which rendered the person unclean.

It displayed a real sense of God’s ironic justice  for the dead of Israel and particularly first-century Jerusalem (which spiritually is called “SODOM and Egypt” - Rev. 11:8) to be buried in the very same location where the ancient city of Sodom had once been located.  God sent fire on Sodom to destroy it, and He also sent fire on Jerusalem by turning it into a “furnace of fire” to destroy it in AD 70.

So this Jordan Valley first served as the smoking furnace for Sodom’s dead citizens , then the burial ground for those 24,000 licentious Baal-worshipping Israelites back in Numbers 25:9, then the final burial ground of Gog’s / Israel’s dead from AD 70 - the spiritual “Sodom” that was first-century Jerusalem.  Very apropos.





Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #19 on: Wed Dec 23, 2020 - 14:39:27 »
Interesting post.  Will require some reading, I think.

One criticism - this valley is not where Sodom was located.  Sodom and Gomorrah are thought to have been on the eastern shore of the Salt Sea, toward the south end.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #20 on: Wed Dec 23, 2020 - 15:57:00 »
Yes, Jarrod, I realize that has been one of the common perceptions.  However, just like the  mistaken “traditional” site of Mt. Sinai, that common perception regarding Sodom’s supposed location isn’t necessarily true.  Try a name comparison between the ancient valley of “Siddim” (associated with all those kings of Sodom, Gomorrah, Zoar, etc. doing battle with each other in Genesis 14:2-3) and the later name “Shittim”.  Both are recorded in scripture as being located in this Jordan Valley.  I believe they are both names of the same city.

Lot’s view of the “well-watered” plain of Jordan (Gen. 13:10) - before the Lord had destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah - compared the Jordan plain to the land of Egypt (the fertile Nile Delta  region).  The plain of Jordan has the same appearance, with a fan-shaped group of rivers that converge as they empty into the top of the Dead Sea.  This verse seems definitely clear that Sodom, Gomorrah, and Zoar were all located in this fertile Jordan plain that Lot was wanting to occupy.

You might be interested in looking up the excavation project that has been going on for more than 10 years in the Jordan Valley, headed up by Steven Collins.  This 80-acre site called the “Tall el-Hammam Excavation Project” has yielded some significant finds that all point to Sodom and Gomorrah being located at this critical juncture of the trade route that came up the east side of the Dead Sea and ran through the Jordan Valley before continuing north.

The layers excavated to date give evidence that the city on this site was abandoned for about 700 years before another city was built on the ruins.  (Sounds as if nobody for a long time dared to build on ground-zero of God’s fiery judgment poured out on the city of Sodom, don’t you think?)

At any rate, for myself at least, a thorough examination of this project and the scripture related to Sodom’s location has satisfied me that this Jordan Valley location was the actual site of Sodom and Gomorrah before their destruction.
« Last Edit: Thu Dec 24, 2020 - 00:37:27 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #21 on: Thu Dec 24, 2020 - 10:48:06 »
Yes, Jarrod, I realize that has been one of the common perceptions.  However, just like the  mistaken “traditional” site of Mt. Sinai, that common perception regarding Sodom’s supposed location isn’t necessarily true. 

Try a name comparison between the ancient valley of “Siddim” (associated with all those kings of Sodom, Gomorrah, Zoar, etc. doing battle with each other in Genesis 14:2-3) and the later name “Shittim”.  Both are recorded in scripture as being located in this Jordan Valley.  I believe they are both names of the same city.

Lot’s view of the “well-watered” plain of Jordan (Gen. 13:10) - before the Lord had destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah - compared the Jordan plain to the land of Egypt (the fertile Nile Delta  region).  The plain of Jordan has the same appearance, with a fan-shaped group of rivers that converge as they empty into the top of the Dead Sea.  This verse seems definitely clear that Sodom, Gomorrah, and Zoar were all located in this fertile Jordan plain that Lot was wanting to occupy.

You might be interested in looking up the excavation project that has been going on for more than 10 years in the Jordan Valley, headed up by Steven Collins.  This 80-acre site called the “Tall el-Hammam Excavation Project” has yielded some significant finds that all point to Sodom and Gomorrah being located at this critical juncture of the trade route that came up the east side of the Dead Sea and ran through the Jordan Valley before continuing north.

The layers excavated to date give evidence that the city on this site was abandoned for about 700 years before another city was built on the ruins.  (Sounds as if nobody for a long time dared to build on ground-zero of God’s fiery judgment poured out on the city of Sodom, don’t you think?)

At any rate, for myself at least, a thorough examination of this project and the scripture related to Sodom’s location has satisfied me that this Jordan Valley location was the actual site of Sodom and Gomorrah before their destruction.
This was interesting.  Looking at the geography of the area, I understand why this area would be called 'Egypt' in metaphor, and the identification between Sodom and Egypt.

It seems reasonable to locate Sodom and Gomorrah in the valley, even if the excavated mound is not necessarily the town itself.


Try a name comparison between the ancient valley of “Siddim” (associated with all those kings of Sodom, Gomorrah, Zoar, etc. doing battle with each other in Genesis 14:2-3) and the later name “Shittim”.  Both are recorded in scripture as being located in this Jordan Valley.  I believe they are both names of the same city.
They're different words.  Shittim are acacia trees.  Siddim means plains.  Just because they're the same place, doesn't mean the words are similar.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: I will give Gog a buriel place.
« Reply #22 on: Thu Dec 24, 2020 - 21:32:23 »
Sure, Jarrod, the word “Shittim” does mean acacia trees, but it is also the name of the last campsite on the east of the Jordan in the plain where the Israelites stayed before miraculously crossing the Jordan River under Joshua’s leadership on their way to Jericho.  Shittim is where they had fallen into sin with the Midianite and Moabite women and 24,000 of them died.  Shittim is where Balaam saw their tribes encamped as he was urged by Balaak to curse them. 

The Tall el-Hammam Excavation project (which in Arabic means “Mound of the hot spring”) is situated on the site where Shittim once was, although different city names were given to it afterward, such as “Julias” when under Roman control in the AD 70 era.  Romans constructed an aqueduct in this zone to take advantage of the fresh water sources, and there are still remnants of this aqueduct to be seen.

This well-watered Kikar of Jordan region, known for its rivers and natural springs of waters, was also featured in the prophecies of Revelation; in particular the 3rd vial judgment of Rev. 16:4-7.  The 3rd angel poured out his vial on these “rivers and fountains of waters and they became blood” for the people of the land to drink.  Because they had shed the blood of prophets and saints, God in true righteous judgment turned this area into blood-soaked ground which quite literally contaminated the available ground water sources.

Josephus in Wars 4.7.4-6 gives us the actual history of this Rev. 16:4-7 vial judgment.  A Roman general called Placidus was tasked with a campaign of squashing  the Zealot rebellion in the towns along the Jordan River in Perea.  He chased a multitude of escapees down the Jordan and trapped them near Jericho with their backs against the swollen banks of the Jordan at flood stage. 

This time, God did NOT miraculously part Jordan’s flood waters for them to pass through, as He had done before for Joshua.   Besides the bodies that littered the landscape    through which Placidus had come, another 15,000 either drowned or were slaughtered at Jericho.  Jordan could not be passed over, it was so congested with carcasses, with many bodies washing down stream and collecting at the top of the Dead Sea (where nothing sinks).   These putrefying bodies were retrieved and buried right there in the Jordan plain (called “the Valley of Hammon-Gog”) when the Israelite “undertakers” were finally cleaning the land of corpses and skeletal remains in Ezekiel 39 :11-16 in the 7 months post-war cleanup process.

No wonder Ezekiel 39:11 said that passengers traveling through this region would be  holding their noses as they passed through this kikar of Jordan at AD 70’s conclusion. 
« Last Edit: Thu Dec 24, 2020 - 21:58:11 by 3 Resurrections »