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Offline Funguy33

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Christian Zionism is wrong
« on: June 01, 2012, 06:36:46 PM »
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Christian Zionism is wrong
« on: June 01, 2012, 06:36:46 PM »

Offline Funguy33

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2012, 07:40:47 AM »
Where's Christ In
Christian Zionism?
By Harmony Grant
1-7-8

Three in four adult Americans believes Jesus Christ was born of a virgin. Since so many Americans respect the Bible, I wonder why they aren't more jaws dropping over Christians United for Israel (CUFI)--a "Christian" Zionist group that totally lacks Christian priorities.

The following testimonial is from a Jewish student who attended a CUFI rally:

"The room essentially turned into a Mega-Church, with thousands of Christians shouting and praising God, praying for the protection, safety and prosperity of Israel and the Jewish people, and for the destruction of the enemies of America and Israel, while waving American and Israeli flags and listening to the sound of shofars being blasted. And yet the name "Jesus" was not mentioned once the entire night (emphasis mine)By the end of the night I had met so many people who just were hugging me because I was Jewish, giving me their names and asking me to pray for them (emphasis mine), telling me I was blessed by God."

CUFI's head, John Hagee, speaks for a "50-million strong movement". He says his TV and radio ministry reaches 99 million homes.

Hagee's followers believe he preaches a Biblical message toward the Jews. They believe that by sending millions to Israel, they are obeying God's command to "bless" the Jews. It's likely that most of these churchmen and women sincerely believe they're doing the right thing. But they have been so blinded by the platitudes and false premises of Christian Zionism that they can't even recognize Hagee's grave apostasy.

This supposed "Christian leader" believes Jews can be saved without accepting Christ. "I believe that every Jewish person who lives in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has a relationship with God and will come to redemption" ["San Antonio fundamentalist battles anti-Semitism," Houston Chronicle, April 30, 1988, sec. 6, pg. 1.].

In his recent book, In Defense of Israel, Hagee went even farther. In an ad for the book, he says shockingly, "Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah."

There was outcry over this heresy. Michael Brown, a Jewish Christian and theologian, says Hagee's book explicitly states the following heresies, "The Jewish people, as a whole, did not reject Jesus as Messiah. Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah. Jesus refused by word and deed to be the Messiah. The Jews cannot be blamed for not accepting what was never offered." Brown says "some believers ­ and even leaders! ­ are buying into this error hook, line, and sinker, and some have begun to teach and preach it as well."

The Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations responded to Hagee's book with "serious concerns," saying his teachings contradict biblical doctrine, undermine the testimony of Jewish followers of Jesus, and weaken the cause of Christian supporters of the Jewish people.

There was enough controversy over the book that Hagee is releasing a revised edition. He wrote a letter to address the "confusion," saying that while Jesus is the true Messiah, Christians can accept Him as the "suffering Messiah" whereas Jews will not recognize Him until He comes as the "reigning Messiah." We shouldn't judge them for their mistake.

Hagee says he hopes "we can return our focus to what I had anticipated to highlight all along, the fact that we Christians must shift from condemning the Jews for what they missed to thanking them for what they gave."

This emphasis is shared by Hagee's many followers, who increasingly idolize and romanticize Jews and Judaism, exalting Jewish law and Jewish blood perhaps even more than Israeli settlers do!

Blind to Injustice

f Christians can recognize that Hagee is wrong to say Christ is not the Messiah and that Jews do not need His saving redemption, they should also be suspicious of Christian Zionism's other premises. They should take a closer look at the real situation in Israel.

In mid-December, the Red Cross broke its normally neutral silence to speak out on life in Gaza. The Red Cross said no amount of humanitarian aid can solve the crisis, and pled for political action. "In Gaza the whole Strip is being strangled, economically speaking, life there has become a nightmare," said the director of Mideast operations.

But the United States will do nothing to force Israel to dismantle settlements or stop oppressing Palestinians--not while the Israel lobby can exert so much political pressure on Capitol Hill.

The time is long past since Christians should have started analyzing their role in this lobby. American evangelicals should question their reading of the Bible, and their definition of how to "bless" Jews. Listening to John Hagee, you'd think there was just one easy interpretation of the Bible. That's hardly true.

In December, Christian Leaders from the National Council of Churches in Australia visited Israel. Their organization includes 17 diverse member churches. The leaders reported that they "were distressed to hear Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim, relate the suffering and fear experienced daily by large numbers of their people." The church leaders "saw and heard evidence of systematic harassment, physical and psychological oppression, widespread unemployment, poverty, and economic deprivation, resulting directly or indirectly from Israeli military occupation of the West Bank."

Christians, more than any other people, are obligated to disregard power and convention and seek the truth. Without truth, there can be no justice or mercy. It's high time Christians return to the Biblical truth that no group can be called "God's chosen people" unless they practice the obedience of the father of faith, Abraham.

The term "Christian Zionism" is a lie. It is Zionist. There's nothing Christian about it

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2012, 07:40:47 AM »

Offline Yahshua

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2012, 12:08:50 AM »
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I have to agree with the first video...

Matthew 21:42-43 "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."

Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ."

1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."


Galatians 3:13-14 & 16 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith...Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, 'And to seeds', as of many; but as of 'one' seed, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

The seed of Abraham is NOT... NOT... NOT the Jewish, but is CHRIST. Christ is "Israel", just like Christ is the "new Adam".


Romans 2:28-29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Any Jew who believes in Christ IS a "child of Israel", just like any Gentile who believes in Christ is EQUALLY a "child of Israel". But a Jew who does NOT believe in Christ is NOT a "child of Israel", just like any Gentile who does NOT believe in Christ is NOT a "child of "Israel. Christ is the cornerstone. Christ is the son of God. Christ is the descendant of king David.

Romans 11:24-26 "For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in [i.e. into Israel]. And so all Israel [the natural branches & the grafted branches ARE ALL Israel] shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:"


Offline Funguy33

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 08:04:38 AM »



Paul confirms Amos 9 is fulfilled in Acts 15.

Paul uses the fulfillment of Amos 9 to justify him being sent to preach the gospel to the Gentiles.

Proof that this prophecy is fulfilled in the first century is that Gentiles were receiving the Holy Spirit of God.

The Gentiles could not have received the Spirit until God first restored Israel, and David's fallen tent was repaired.

Acts 15
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 08:04:38 AM »

Offline Funguy33

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2012, 08:36:20 AM »
A spiritual head of the Lithuanian branch of Ultra-Orthodox Jewry in Israel, Rabbi Aharon Shteinman, recently said:

There are eight billion people in the world and what are they? Murderers, thieves, brainless people. But who is the essence of the world? Has God created the world for these murderers? For these evil-doers? Non-Jews have no connection to torah. The nations have nothing, no confidence (=faith) and no good principles.

This is not the fringe position of one fanatic. This statement has been echoed by prominent Israeli rabbis who say Gentiles are subhuman, worthy of death.


Public expression of such racist vitriol began several years ago with publication and wide distribution of The King’s Torah, a commentary on the Talmud advocating murder of Arabs, even children. Israel’s ban on “incitement of religious hatred

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2012, 08:36:20 AM »



raggthyme7

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2012, 11:26:08 AM »
 It seems to be ignored by most of the evangelical world just how many followers of Jesus have been persecuted in the name of "Christian Zionism." Israel could commit the most heinous crimes against His children and still there would be a slew of believers who would back them. I agree... this movement seems antichrist, if that term could apply in these days.

Thank you for bringing this up.

Offline Esther

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2012, 07:54:25 PM »
 ::frown:: Dear Fun Guy, at this point I'm just trying to figure out if your'e serious or just being controversial to get the discussion going.  You can't really believe this guy's article that you posted?  True Christians support Israel and the eternal Covenant that God made with Abraham and his descendants.  Honestly, I have to carefully reread the article just to know where to start dismanteling such over-the-top statements from your article's author.  There is no "apostasy" in the CZ movement to the best of my knowledge.  Could there be?  I suppose on an individual level, anything is possible, but not on the whole, and certainly not from Pastor Hagee.  This man has had death threats and been shot at.  He had better have his theology correct and be ready for Heaven!  Before I tackle the details here, I want to say that I don't think anyone can judge whether or not another person is born-again.  Only the Lord can determine that.  It doesn't matter if the person is Gentile or Jewish or whatever.  Let me reread the article, and I'll get back to you soon.  Thanks!

Offline Funguy33

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2012, 08:05:28 PM »
Esther
God's Covenant with Israel was fulfilled through Jesus... Galations 3:16

John Hagee is a false prophet, working for the New World Order gang. Hagee teaches a heresy known as "Zionism." Religious Zionism teaches that God has a separate covenant with Israel and another for the Gentile Church. This is unbiblical and is sometimes called a "Dual Covenant." Hagee stated to the Houston Chronicle that he believes Jews have a special covenant with God and do not need to come to the cross for salvation. According to Hagee Jews don't need to be born-again. Mr. Hagee told the Texas newspaper:


Offline Esther

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2012, 09:11:35 PM »
 ::help::Dear Sir:  Your error comes in confusing the eternal Covenant of the LAND given to Israel and the fulfillment of promised blessings through Jesus Christ.  Both of these things involve promise and blessing, but one involves Land and other one the Seed of Abraham through whom Christ came.  In other words, you are speaking of a "spiritual" fulfillment of blessings in Christ (since we no longer must keep the Law) and I am speaking of a "literal" fulfillment of the Promised Land which is being returned to the Jews as we speak.  This is, of course, a tenent of CZ (that the Land which God promised to Abraham would be restored to Abraham's descendants, namely, the Jewish people and the state of Israel.  Gal. 3:16 must be taken in context and in the light of all of Gal. and all of chap. 3. 
Could you give me the reference/resource for the Houston Chronicle article on Pastor Hagee as well as the date he said these alleged comments?  The Chronicle is not a fan of Hagee anyway.  Could he have been misquoted or misinterpreted?  Surely, we don't trust the media, nor do we want the media to determine our opinions of high-profile people.  Much more info would be required to convince me that Pastor Hagee is a "false prophet."  Can it be produced?  We'll see!

Offline Esther

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2012, 10:31:41 PM »
 ::headscratch::Actually, I have never heard of a Covenant for the Church.  There are promises of blessings for the Church (anyone of any race who has a personal faith).  The Abrahamic Covenant is specifically for Abraham and his descendants, God's Chosen people, the Jews.  It's not MORE important than the Lord's promises to the church, but it is AS important.  As we face the "end times," anything happening in the Middle East in general, and to Israel specifically is vitally important to the world.  Every day, prophecy about Israel is fulfilled before our very eyes.  It is sincere CZ's who are drawing attention to that, so no, CZ's will not be popular with the world in general.  I'm just getting warmed up here, but I have a very important question for you:  What's wrong with being a Zionist?  Just a plain old Zionist?  It was mentioned at the end of Harmony's diatribe.  Like it was something wicked or unholy.  Can you help me understand that? 

Offline Funguy33

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2012, 07:24:39 AM »
Esther

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Offline gbzone

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2012, 02:02:36 AM »
THere is a lot of foolishness  here .

Supposing that  errors by some either By Jews Christians and indeed Moslems is the foundation for truth.

It is waht the scriptures say NOT what men say if they contradict the scriptures by the holy ghost.

In Romans Paul teaches what and how the scriptures  forsee the salvation of the Jews  when they through belief are grafted back in. as "being raised from the dead"

In the same argument  he has proved that both the Jew who had the laws of God and the gentiles who did not are ALL  and indeed BOTH sold unto sin and are therefore subject to sin and death for ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

If God should restore Isreal then it is by grace and not of works.

That the Jews still exist  despite all the solutions tried to disuade them from the scriptures and the God of the scriptures untill the final solution when they did not is testomony that God is still faithfull to his promsie to Abraham.and to the nation and the childfren of Isreal.

This does not justyfy isreal but it does justyfy God then as now.

The rather jaundiced and inccorrect veiws  of the 'palastinian' situation  has more to do with  present political  corruption and islamic views that the scriptures oreven the truth of history.

That Isreal was established by that body the wolrd holds to be the rightoius way of man does not mean that God was not in it.
Yet the palastinians cannot then  seek by the same body to establish thier own state by denying isreal thiers.
Nor indeed can the Un not uphold and defend isreals borders by suporting those palastinians who seek to esxtablish what they see as theirs.
If they undermine isreals they undrmien the UN.all countries that do not honour Isreals borders will find also thier borders undermined as well.

But that is enough of the world save in this .That in the measure that the Wolrd judges isreal will be the measure byw hich God will judge those who so judge.

Therefore to mix so called 'christian zionism' and ignorance as the main event as it were is also ignorance.
While I do not pretend to understand it all.

This is sure .
The time of the gentiles is at hand. When Isreal rejected the Christ and the kingdom it was then ofered to the gentiles.
Now it is the gentiles who are rejecting Christ and the kingdom so it will be given back to the Jews.
and what is now considered to eb the tail which will wag according to the perceived present head. Will by the grace and will and word of God become the head and not the tail.

Ishmeal and his descendents will be as it was written. They against all the world and the world against them.

jacob have I loved ..........

In the end  both the Jew and the gentile body of believers will be in the ONE body even Christs.

Christians will have to humble themselves and Jews also to do so.

For both if they are ;are saved by the grace and the mercy of God through jesus Christ.
 and by no other.

 

Offline Funguy33

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2012, 08:28:50 AM »
God's Covenant with Abraham was fulfilled through Jesus. Galations 3:16

The Jews and all Israel was scattered after 70AD. The Khazars adopted the Jewish religion in 700AD and are living in Israel today. Rev 2:9

Why would Jesus be able to win the Jews, if He couldn't do it the first time?

We are living under a New Covenant... Jeremiah 31:31

All Israel is being saved on a daily basis.

Offline gbzone

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2012, 12:28:38 PM »
God's Covenant with Abraham was fulfilled through Jesus. Galations 3:16

The Jews and all Israel was scattered after 70AD. The Khazars adopted the Jewish religion in 700AD and are living in Israel today. Rev 2:9

Why would Jesus be able to win the Jews, if He couldn't do it the first time?

We are living under a New Covenant... Jeremiah 31:31

All Israel is being saved on a daily basis.

I would then sugest you go and read the promise to isreal by the mouth of Moses then.In the last chapter of exodus.
 ALL scripture  has to be used to understand one verse not one verse to understand all scripture.

In Christ

gerald

Offline Funguy33

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Re: Christian Zionism is wrong
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2012, 04:19:30 PM »
God's Covenant with Abraham was fulfilled through Jesus. Galations 3:16

The Jews and all Israel was scattered after 70AD. The Khazars adopted the Jewish religion in 700AD and are living in Israel today. Rev 2:9

Why would Jesus be able to win the Jews, if He couldn't do it the first time?

We are living under a New Covenant... Jeremiah 31:31

All Israel is being saved on a daily basis.

I would then sugest you go and read the promise to isreal by the mouth of Moses then.In the last chapter of exodus.
 ALL scripture  has to be used to understand one verse not one verse to understand all scripture.

In Christ

gerald

Exodus 40:15 Anoint them just as you anointed their father, so they may serve me as priests. Their anointing will be to a priesthood that will continue for all generations to come."
God then replaced them after Aaron sinned with Zadok family Ezekiel 44:15, who served in Herod's Temple as the Sadducees. After the destruction of the Temple in 70AD, Jesus started building His own Temple and we will serve as Priests.