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Author Topic: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?  (Read 7815 times)

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Offline Mrs Mac

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2009, 06:41:04 PM »
Watcher said
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Well, it won't do any good to give Scriptural facts because those whom are deceived today won't accept Scriptural facts.  Nevertheless here goes:

Matt.24:29  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

30  "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

31  "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Can't get any more clearer than that!


 
 
 



I find the Scripture very clear. For one thing these verses have nothing to do with The Rapture. Jesus is telling the Jews about The Tribulation. He is not referring to the church in any way.

If you think "the elect"to which He refers is the Church I think if you study the nature of The Tribulation you will find He is referring to a remnant of Israel where they are gathered at the end of The Tribulation.

The Elect:
Quote
Oneof the major Divine purposes for the tribulation in relation to Israel is theconversion of the Jewish remnant to faith in Jesus as their Messiah. This will take place throughout thetribulation, but by the end of the seven-year period the entire number of theelect remnant will become converted to Jesus. That number is likely a third of the Jewish people as notedin Zechariah 13:9. "And I willbring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, andtest them as gold is tested. Theywill call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,'and they will say, 'The Lord is myGod.'" As part of the process ofbringing the Jewish remnant to faith Zechariah 13:8 speaks of a purging out ofthe non-elect Jewish element from the nation. "'And it will come about in allthe land,' declares the Lord,'that two parts in it will be cut off and perish; but the third will be left init.'" The Old Testament prophetsspeak frequently of the purging out of the Jewish non-elect during thetribulation.
http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=273

Thanks for at least sharing the Scriptures. Listening goes both ways.









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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2009, 06:41:04 PM »

Offline Mrs Mac

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2009, 07:04:37 PM »
Corbley said
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Now when the greatest test of our faith as Christians is at our door steps....The "Well Trained" Christian, believes they will dodge Gods judgement (and chooses to close their mind to the possibility, that they may be tested by God during the tribulation.

Well trained Christians KNOW that Jesus faced God's judgment on their behalf. That is why the Scriptures say Christians are not appointed to wrath.

I have noticed that some "Christians" seem to feel that they need to suffer further, obviously they don't understand the sufficiency of the cross.

It is worthy to note that while Corbley and I aren't suffering physical persecution at this time, Christians through the ages and now worldwide are suffering for their faith.
 
God's purpose for the tribulation is to restore Israel (Jer. 30:3, 10) and judge the Gentiles (Jer. 30:11)....Isa 13:9  Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

I can't see the church involved in this because she has been declared righteous in Christ Jesus


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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2009, 07:04:37 PM »

Offline Corbley

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2009, 08:54:43 AM »
Corbley said
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Now when the greatest test of our faith as Christians is at our door steps....The "Well Trained" Christian, believes they will dodge Gods judgement (and chooses to close their mind to the possibility, that they may be tested by God during the tribulation.

Well trained Christians KNOW that Jesus faced God's judgment on their behalf. That is why the Scriptures say Christians are not appointed to wrath.

I have noticed that some "Christians" seem to feel that they need to suffer further, obviously they don't understand the sufficiency of the cross.

It is worthy to note that while Corbley and I aren't suffering physical persecution at this time, Christians through the ages and now worldwide are suffering for their faith.
 
God's purpose for the tribulation is to restore Israel (Jer. 30:3, 10) and judge the Gentiles (Jer. 30:11)....Isa 13:9  Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

I can't see the church involved in this because she has been declared righteous in Christ Jesus



Of course you can't see Christians going through this....Yet time and time again in the bible....God tests his people.    It is not the suffering of the tribulation that Christians will endure.   Christ did that for us
it will be a test of our faith.   God will provide for his own.....But those Christians who claim to know God now, will betray him for their own self preservation

Offline Debbie_55

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2009, 11:58:52 AM »
To fish153 it is not an exclusive thing to know Gods word as all of us should be studying by allowing the Holy Spirit to teach us all things we need to know for the timing we need it, John 14:26.
Joshua 24:15 as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2009, 11:58:52 AM »

Tantor

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2009, 12:30:56 PM »
Tantor, you can't be serious. You blame premillenialism on the creation of a "skewed world". That is totally bizarre. ???
You have no grounds for your opinion that the doctrine of Pre Trib Rapture is a deception of Satan.

Schofield and Darby followed Paul who said there would be a rapture, and who called it by its proper term "caught up".

(1Th 4:16)  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(1Th 4:17)  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rapture teaching cannot be clearer than these two verses. As for the timing we don't know of course but we do know that

(1Th 5:9)  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


We know also that The 7 year Tribulation period that will fall upon the earth is known as God's wrath Rev 6:16-17.

Believers have no part in that, and are actually exhorted to look for the "Glorious Appearing" of our Lord Jesus Christ. We could hardly be looking for it if we didn't believe He would appear or could at any time. Titus 2:13

The satanic deception that is taking place at the moment is that which convinces people not to be looking for His coming. The delusion is that  the bible doesn't mean what it says but requires individual interpretation and allegory which is where the church mainly stands now. Faithless.

I would put forth to you that the skewed world to which you refer is skewed because the church has fallen into the apostasy prophesied for these end times and it has grown weak, without faith because it doesn't know what to believe. When we throw the bible out then we get a skewed church and a skewed world.

I feel the need to point out that the rest of the world does not tie its religion to its politics. Our Christianity does not exist because of our patriotic views

Be blessed  ::smile::




Schofield abandoned his wife and kids then divorced them.. then swindled his mother in law out of her life savings and spent 6 months in jail for it.  Then he started dating 3 months prior to his divorce and then he remarried later on.  He embodies everything that a moral majority based dispensational congregation would run out of town.. yet you believe his lies hook line and sinker.

Darby was expelled by his peers.

If anything, all they followed were the voices in their heads instead of scripture.

NOBODY.. and I REPEAT.. NOBODY believed in the pre-trib rapture until the 1800's.  So what you believe is a myth created by Satan to steer the faithful away from the gospel.


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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2009, 12:30:56 PM »



Offline Corbley

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2009, 01:54:19 PM »
AMEN Tantor..

Offline Mrs Mac

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2009, 12:47:27 AM »
Well, you macho males can go through The Tribulation if  that form of self flagellation appeals to you.

I won't be there! 
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Offline farouk

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2009, 01:03:01 AM »
Ms M:

1 Thess. 4 speaks of the Lord Jesus returning for His church, and this is the next event we look for, rather than anything else.

Take care.

Well, you macho males can go through The Tribulation if  that form of self flagellation appeals to you.

I won't be there! 
John 3.16 contains great theology, without doubt.

Read God's Word prayerfully every day; it's a joy and privilege.

If folks feel they must have TATTOOS, have you considered having faith related designs tattooed?

(And try vacationing in the South: plenty of sun, and some great churches down there!)

Offline Victorious

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2009, 01:47:27 AM »
Corbley said
Quote
Now when the greatest test of our faith as Christians is at our door steps....The "Well Trained" Christian, believes they will dodge Gods judgement (and chooses to close their mind to the possibility, that they may be tested by God during the tribulation.

Well trained Christians KNOW that Jesus faced God's judgment on their behalf. That is why the Scriptures say Christians are not appointed to wrath.

I have noticed that some "Christians" seem to feel that they need to suffer further, obviously they don't understand the sufficiency of the cross.

It is worthy to note that while Corbley and I aren't suffering physical persecution at this time, Christians through the ages and now worldwide are suffering for their faith.
 
God's purpose for the tribulation is to restore Israel (Jer. 30:3, 10) and judge the Gentiles (Jer. 30:11)....Isa 13:9  Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

I can't see the church involved in this because she has been declared righteous in Christ Jesus




cberman

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2009, 10:53:36 PM »
I don't believe in a literal rapture. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Offline Eagle

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2009, 06:28:08 PM »

Quote

All you need to do is research Darby and Schofield... paying specific attention to some of the published correspondence from Schofield to his colleagues.  Their non-biblical framework was rejected by all but a few people during their times... but they wanted to popularize their wild theory and went about it in an intentionally deceptive way.. through institutions like Dallas Theological Seminary and moving to the south where religious instruction was very lax. 



Interesting! I find Scofield to be a lier. Distorted Gods word for his personal gain. Not many agree..
Chapter and verse are posted so all can look up the context.

Offline Debbie_55

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2009, 07:51:57 PM »

Quote

All you need to do is research Darby and Schofield... paying specific attention to some of the published correspondence from Schofield to his colleagues.  Their non-biblical framework was rejected by all but a few people during their times... but they wanted to popularize their wild theory and went about it in an intentionally deceptive way.. through institutions like Dallas Theological Seminary and moving to the south where religious instruction was very lax.  



Interesting! I find Scofield to be a lier. Distorted Gods word for his personal gain. Not many agree..


These pre-trib theories started in the 1800’s and continued with Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland who first taught the pretrib view in 1830. Her theory was handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something. The Bible never mentions a seven year Great Tribulation as we will always have tribulations and persecutions until the day Jesus returns in the clouds to take us home. If you have a Strong's Concordance look up the word tribulation for yourself and also look up Margaret MacDonald and you can read her writings.
Joshua 24:15 as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

"must be about my Fathers business"

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Offline farouk

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2009, 07:57:33 PM »
Within the Bible's use of the word 'tribulation' there is the principle of tribulation but also a unique time.

1 Thess. 4 contains the Lord's coming for His people. I see nothing that must happen first.
John 3.16 contains great theology, without doubt.

Read God's Word prayerfully every day; it's a joy and privilege.

If folks feel they must have TATTOOS, have you considered having faith related designs tattooed?

(And try vacationing in the South: plenty of sun, and some great churches down there!)

Offline rezar

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2009, 08:44:58 PM »
Within the Bible's use of the word 'tribulation' there is the principle of tribulation but also a unique time.

1 Thess. 4 contains the Lord's coming for His people. I see nothing that must happen first.

Coming for His people, in what way?  He prayed that that they wouldn't be taken out of this world but kept from evil.
And you're wrong as far as history & the Lord's coming was concerned. There was plenty that was to come before the coming of the Lord.

I hope that helped you understand that Scripture says differently than from what you may feel or "see" in it or something else.

The siege began on Passover. Many there for the feast would be shut in the madness & death of the city. Just like in the days of Noah, they were eating & drinking........




and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power~ Col.2:10

Offline Mrs Mac

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Re: Do you believe in Pre, Mid, or End of tribulation rapture?
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2009, 09:15:01 PM »
Within the Bible's use of the word 'tribulation' there is the principle of tribulation but also a unique time.

1 Thess. 4 contains the Lord's coming for His people. I see nothing that must happen first.

farouk........this isn't funny because you are absolutely right. Very difficult to argue points with those who are on a different wavelength altogether.

Quote
1Th 4:17  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

"Caught up" means caught up not difficult to understand, tense is future, not difficult either.
So, at least we can discuss in harmony.  ::nodding::
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