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Author Topic: Does Daniel 8 tell when the final Judgement begins?  (Read 571 times)

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Offline Hobie

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Does Daniel 8 tell when the final Judgement begins?
« on: Wed Mar 07, 2018 - 05:47:24 »
Daniel 8 gives us a timeline that takes us to the end times, but does it also show us more?

Daniel 8 King James Version (KJV)

8 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.

2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.

3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.

5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.

7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.

8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Does it show when the hour of His judgment on the timeline to the end has arrived.

And how does Hebrews 9 show us how the sanctuary is cleanses and by what?

Hebrews 9 King James Version (KJV)

9 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The Day of Atonement was a cleansing of the earthly tabernacle  and according to the law, there is no cleansing from sin without shedding of blood.  This was accomplished by the death of the lamb brought for offering.  Without death, there can be no cleansing of sin.  But Moses tabernacle was from a pattern he was shown, so what was the tabernacle not made with hands?

Hebrews 8:5

Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.


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Does Daniel 8 tell when the final Judgement begins?
« on: Wed Mar 07, 2018 - 05:47:24 »

Offline notreligus

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Re: Does Daniel 8 tell when the final Judgement begins?
« Reply #1 on: Wed Mar 07, 2018 - 12:28:48 »
I don't understand why you have this in the End Times Forum.   The Book of Hebrews reveals that which is already in place.   But Dispensationals claim this is a book which applies to the Jews in the future and not to the Church.  That's not true at all.   If it were true then neither you nor I would yet be reconciled to the Father.   

Christ has entered into the heavenly by His own blood and it was presented as payment for the sin of mankind.   The shed Blood of Christ is the only payment acceptable to God Almighty.  The blood is now in the heavenly Holy of Holies where it is a permanent sin covering.

Christ is right now the Great High Priest, our Mediator and our Intercessor.   I think of Him as my attorney who stands before the Father and calls me righteous by His own righteousness.  That's why we must put our faith in His obedience at the cross because there is nothing we can do to save ourselves or reconcile ourselves to God,

Rom 5:10  For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11  More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Death in Adam, Life in Christ

Rom 5:12  Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
Rom 5:13  for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Rom 5:14  Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
Rom 5:15  But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Rom 5:16  And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.
Rom 5:17  For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18  Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
Rom 5:19  For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
Rom 5:20  Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Rom 5:21  so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.



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Re: Does Daniel 8 tell when the final Judgement begins?
« Reply #1 on: Wed Mar 07, 2018 - 12:28:48 »

Offline Hobie

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Re: Does Daniel 8 tell when the final Judgement begins?
« Reply #2 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 01:08:40 »
Well lets take a look, this is about Christ and points to Him and His ministry as our High Priest. The Day of Atonement was a cleansing of the earthly sanctuary that symbolized the actual cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary as we read in Daniel 8. This cleansing is what takes us to the judgment phase and Daniel tells us it would take place at the end of the 2300-day prophecy:

Daniel 8:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

In the Day of Atonement of the earthly tabernacle the blood of the sacrificial goat was needed for the high priest’s ministry to begin in the Holy of Holies or the Most Holy Place. In the heavenly one not made with human hands, Jesus could not have begun His work of ministering as our High Priest until after the cross. As He could not do the work in the heavenly Holy of Holies until after He had shed His own blood. This is what Daniel is referencing in Daniel 8, at the end of the 2300-day.

The 2300-day prophecy has its start in 457 BC when Artaxerxes issued a decree to rebuild Jerusalem as Daniel 8 and 9 go together as the smaller 70-week prophecy is part of the 2300-day. Now we go read in Daniel 9:


24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The 2300-day prophecy is using the day-year principle in both Daniel 8 and 9, the same as Jesus used, that one day in prophecy equals a year.

The angel Gabriel in Verse 25 tells us when this begins, 'from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem.' and Ezra 7 tells us when it was given by Artaxerxes, was 457 BC. When we use the day-year principle and convert the 2300 prophetic days into years we then add those years to 457 BC to see when the prophecy ends. Therefore, the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary begins at the end of the 2300 years as “then shall the sanctuary be cleansed” (Daniel 8:14). Jesus entered the Holy of Holies at that time to begin His work of the antitypical Day of Atonement.

The Jews associated the Day of Atonement with the Day of Judgment of the end time and in the earthly tabernacle the high priest’s actions on the Day of Atonement represented the cleansing of the sanctuary, basically the wiping out of sin and as the Day of Judgment which were seen as part of the steps which would lead to the final salvation of Israel. The Day of Atonement on earth pointed to the judgment taking place in heaven before the return of Christ. Christ must do the High Priest ministry in heaven prior to His return to the earth, so that He can separate the saved from the lost at His coming. 

Offline larry2

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Re: Does Daniel 8 tell when the final Judgement begins?
« Reply #3 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 12:35:29 »
Daniel 8 gives us a timeline that takes us to the end times, but does it also show us more?
Hi Hobie, and I’ll give what I believe in bits so as to not have three pages of replies on one post, and to make sure we're not talking apples and oranges before preceeding.   ::smile::

Starting with Dan 7:7 Daniel is being given visions of a revived Roman Empire as it were. It does go to the end time where we see in Dan 7:9 where we even read of "The Ancient of days did sit." This is Jesus having His throne been set in Rev 4:2 after John is caught up in Spirit on The Lord's day future, and is told by Jesus' angel of Rev 1:1 "I will shew thee things which must be hereafter" from that event in time. 


Dan 7:7  After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Now we also read in Dan 7:9 "I beheld till the thrones were cast down" which are not thrones put away, but set into place to accommodate the antichrist and his new seven nation government. There were ten nations to begin with (The antichrist is one of the beasts), he plucks up three nations by the roots, there are seven nations which include him, and later even those remaining six nations give way to the antichrist.

Just to keep us straight as to who is being discussed, the Little Horn of Dan 7:8 which is the antichrist, is not the same as the second Little Horn of Dan 8:9 which is the False Prophet. 

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Re: Does Daniel 8 tell when the final Judgement begins?
« Reply #3 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 12:35:29 »

Offline Amo

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Re: Does Daniel 8 tell when the final Judgement begins?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Mar 18, 2018 - 10:37:29 »
I don't understand why you have this in the End Times Forum.   The Book of Hebrews reveals that which is already in place.   But Dispensationals claim this is a book which applies to the Jews in the future and not to the Church.  That's not true at all.   If it were true then neither you nor I would yet be reconciled to the Father.   

Christ has entered into the heavenly by His own blood and it was presented as payment for the sin of mankind.   The shed Blood of Christ is the only payment acceptable to God Almighty.  The blood is now in the heavenly Holy of Holies where it is a permanent sin covering.

Christ is right now the Great High Priest, our Mediator and our Intercessor.   I think of Him as my attorney who stands before the Father and calls me righteous by His own righteousness.  That's why we must put our faith in His obedience at the cross because there is nothing we can do to save ourselves or reconcile ourselves to God,

Rom 5:10  For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11  More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Death in Adam, Life in Christ

Rom 5:12  Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
Rom 5:13  for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Rom 5:14  Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
Rom 5:15  But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Rom 5:16  And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.
Rom 5:17  For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18  Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
Rom 5:19  For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
Rom 5:20  Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Rom 5:21  so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The book of Revelation is for the end times. It is obvious from many a verse within, that much described there takes place within the temple or sanctuary in heaven. This is where Christ ever liveth to make intercession for His people. It is the center of activity in heaven now, the prayers of Christ's church ascend to their High priest continually officiating there for them right now. The judgement of this world, of professed believers and non believers alike, and the war between Christ's Church and Satan's own in this world are all being addressed and conducted right now from the heavenly sanctuary. This is present truth for these present end times.

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Re: Does Daniel 8 tell when the final Judgement begins?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Mar 18, 2018 - 10:37:29 »



Offline the_sign

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Re: Does Daniel 8 tell when the final Judgement begins?
« Reply #5 on: Mon May 07, 2018 - 11:30:33 »
Daniel 8 gives us a timeline that takes us to the end times, but does it also show us more?


The entire prophecy was closed and sealed, and I have found that understanding the 8th chapter only comes after understanding all of the other four digit numbers; so in that regard one cannot isolate only chapter 8 and expect to draw conclusions.

When I said to Jesus on the day I baptized Him, "I have need to be baptzied by You, yet You come to me", the Biblical basis for such a statement is found in Daniel 8:14, a process under which, in fulfillment, we are now experiencing.

The count down is at 235 today; 235 days remaining and Daniel 8:14 will be fulfilled.

I just witnessed five more goslings hatch from the 5th nest this mating season.

Regular updates to the countdown to the Day of the Lord by the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven at :

http://risen-from-the-dead.forumotion.com/

Offline lecoope

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Re: Does Daniel 8 tell when the final Judgement begins?
« Reply #6 on: Wed Sep 05, 2018 - 15:12:23 »
Daniel 8 was future to Daniel, but is history to us today.

 

     
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