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Offline jkitty7

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End Times
« on: Wed Feb 24, 2010 - 21:52:52 »
I would first like to say hello to everyone. Glad to be able to  participate at this forum.

As you may know, there is much talk about the coming Antichrist.  We hear different things about who he will be. People often say he will be the devil himself, and have  supernatural powers.  I, personally think he will be just an ordinary man with great ambitions, and probably have mental illness in his inevitable claim to be God.  Why I don't think he will be the devil himself (at first, anyway) on the rise is because it makes sense to me that Lucifer will try to avoid the end any way possible. It doesn't make sense for him to want it at all since he knows he will not win, and be locked up, and lastly sent to hell.  But some man claiming to be God, and wanting the world to follow him will surely rise one day according to scriptures.. (people are saying in a few years now).  My guess is it will be out of Lucifers power to stop it, and he will forcefully take over/possess the man.

Your thoughts?   

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End Times
« on: Wed Feb 24, 2010 - 21:52:52 »

Offline Bonnie

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Re: End Times
« Reply #1 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 05:17:20 »
Welcome to the forum.
He may be a mere man at first and entice many if not most of the people to believe he's this great man of peace. He will give them what they want, spiritually and physically. Famine and sicknesses will be wide spread and he may "cure" many and bring back prosperity for a while. After the first half of the Tribulation he will show himself to be what he truly is. Satan may use this man's body to further his agenda. With the wide spread of Gay people I think he may possibility be Gay himself. He wants to destroy and corrupt all that is God's, especially we who are made in His image.

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Re: End Times
« Reply #1 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 05:17:20 »

Offline fish153

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Re: End Times
« Reply #2 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 10:30:48 »
jkitty7---

If you read Revelation when it describes the beast it says of the him:

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition" (Rev. 17:8)

It appears that the "Beast" will at first be just a man, and he will reign for 3-1/2 years.  He will most likely be assasinated. But he will come back to life.  When he comes back to life though it will no longer be the man's soul ruling the body, but whomever has ascended out of the bottomless pit.  It most likely is someone who has lived on earth before, as it says he "was" and "is not" (at the moment), yet "shall ascend" from the bottomless pit.  This entity will "take over" the body and then reign the last 3-1/2 years which is called "the Great Tribulation" period.

Some actually believe this will be Judas as Jesus called him "the Son of Perdition" and Paul calls the Anti-Christ "the Son of Perdition".  Judas is the only person actually named this in the Bible.


Offline pointmade

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Re: End Times
« Reply #3 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 11:19:45 »
"Some actually believe this will be Judas as Jesus called him "the Son of Perdition" and Paul calls the Anti-Christ "the Son of Perdition".  Judas is the only person actually named this in the Bible"

Interesting, the only place I find the term "anti-christ" is in 1 John 2:22, and here we are told that "he (anti-christ) is one who denies that Jesus is the Christ," There is a long line of people who have marched through history that do not believe that Jesus is the Christ.... In chapter 3, verse 4, John says that even now already is IT  in the world."  Here, John is speaking in the present tense as "it" being the false Dosetic teachers that were in the church teaching that Jesus was only a human. I cannot find" anti-christ" in Revelation or the book of Daniel.


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Re: End Times
« Reply #3 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 11:19:45 »

Offline Jon-Marc

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Re: End Times
« Reply #4 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 12:52:37 »
I have no idea who or what he will be. Since I won't be here when he is revealed, I don't have to concern myself with it.

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Re: End Times
« Reply #4 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 12:52:37 »



Offline fish153

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Re: End Times
« Reply #5 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 13:31:46 »
"Some actually believe this will be Judas as Jesus called him "the Son of Perdition" and Paul calls the Anti-Christ "the Son of Perdition".  Judas is the only person actually named this in the Bible"

Interesting, the only place I find the term "anti-christ" is in 1 John 2:22, and here we are told that "he (anti-christ) is one who denies that Jesus is the Christ," There is a long line of people who have marched through history that do not believe that Jesus is the Christ.... In chapter 3, verse 4, John says that even now already is IT  in the world."  Here, John is speaking in the present tense as "it" being the false Dosetic teachers that were in the church teaching that Jesus was only a human. I cannot find" anti-christ" in Revelation or the book of Daniel.



point--

What I was referring to is the term "son of perdition".  Jesus calls Judas that directly when he says "none have I lost but the son of perdition, that he might go to his own place".  Paul then calls the anti-christ "the son of perdition" when he speaks of him in Thessalonians.  Some scholars have said Judas may be the future anti-christ because Jesus says Judas went "to his own place".   Jesus also says "Have I not chosen you 12 and one of you is a devil?".  Some have speculated that at the same time the Son of God was on the earth, the Son of Satan was on the earth, and that Judas was more than a mere man--perhaps an incarnated foul spirit---interestingly, Judas sat under Jesus' ministry directly for 3-1/2 years----and how long will the anti-christ brutally reign AFTER he betrays the jews?  3-1/2 years.   I find it to be very interesting.

But as Jon-Marc said, we Christians will be gone when he is revealed, so it is no matter of major importance that we know who he is. ::smile::

Offline Eagle

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Re: End Times
« Reply #6 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 14:57:14 »
"Some actually believe this will be Judas as Jesus called him "the Son of Perdition" and Paul calls the Anti-Christ "the Son of Perdition".  Judas is the only person actually named this in the Bible"

Interesting, the only place I find the term "anti-christ" is in 1 John 2:22, and here we are told that "he (anti-christ) is one who denies that Jesus is the Christ," There is a long line of people who have marched through history that do not believe that Jesus is the Christ.... In chapter 3, verse 4, John says that even now already is IT  in the world."  Here, John is speaking in the present tense as "it" being the false Dosetic teachers that were in the church teaching that Jesus was only a human. I cannot find" anti-christ" in Revelation or the book of Daniel.



Wow  some one who reads the scripture for what it says....   manna for you!

Offline Bonnie

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Re: End Times
« Reply #7 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 15:41:57 »
I'm not convinced that there will be "The Antichrist." As one of the writers said, there are already many antichrists' and that was back then.

Offline Azrael

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Re: End Times
« Reply #8 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 16:41:07 »
I'm not convinced that there will be "The Antichrist." As one of the writers said, there are already many antichrists' and that was back then.

He's only mentioned 4 times and only in John:

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
 
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1Jn 2:17  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

I agree. Singling out a single individual is ridiculous. Since obviously any non believer can be the AC. Quite posible John was referring to his time and not predicting any future AC but who knows.People are so obsessed with hoping the world ends soon so that they can watch the non believers scream in agony on earth. Sick if you ask me and no one is by the way.

Offline fish153

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Re: End Times
« Reply #9 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 19:04:57 »
"Some actually believe this will be Judas as Jesus called him "the Son of Perdition" and Paul calls the Anti-Christ "the Son of Perdition".  Judas is the only person actually named this in the Bible"

Interesting, the only place I find the term "anti-christ" is in 1 John 2:22, and here we are told that "he (anti-christ) is one who denies that Jesus is the Christ," There is a long line of people who have marched through history that do not believe that Jesus is the Christ.... In chapter 3, verse 4, John says that even now already is IT  in the world."  Here, John is speaking in the present tense as "it" being the false Dosetic teachers that were in the church teaching that Jesus was only a human. I cannot find" anti-christ" in Revelation or the book of Daniel.



Wow  some one who reads the scripture for what it says....   manna for you!

The word "Trinity" doesn't appear in the Bible either, but that doesn't mean God isn't a trinity.  The word "antiChrist" may only be in 1 John, but he is called many other titles throughout the whole Bible.  There will definitely be an Ant-Christ---it is clearly taught in Scripture---just read Daniel  "the little Horn"  and many other references.

Offline Azrael

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Re: End Times
« Reply #10 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 19:19:05 »
"Some actually believe this will be Judas as Jesus called him "the Son of Perdition" and Paul calls the Anti-Christ "the Son of Perdition".  Judas is the only person actually named this in the Bible"

Interesting, the only place I find the term "anti-christ" is in 1 John 2:22, and here we are told that "he (anti-christ) is one who denies that Jesus is the Christ," There is a long line of people who have marched through history that do not believe that Jesus is the Christ.... In chapter 3, verse 4, John says that even now already is IT  in the world."  Here, John is speaking in the present tense as "it" being the false Dosetic teachers that were in the church teaching that Jesus was only a human. I cannot find" anti-christ" in Revelation or the book of Daniel.



Wow  some one who reads the scripture for what it says....   manna for you!

The word "Trinity" doesn't appear in the Bible either, but that doesn't mean God isn't a trinity.  The word "antiChrist" may only be in 1 John, but he is called many other titles throughout the whole Bible.  There will definitely be an Ant-Christ---it is clearly taught in Scripture---just read Daniel  "the little Horn"  and many other references.

There "will be many" which means more than one.  My theory on this. No one man could rise up and take over the entire world.

Offline luggr

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Re: End Times
« Reply #11 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 19:24:40 »
. With the wide spread of Gay people I think he may possibility be Gay himself. .

Clearly to be casting stones you have taken the plank from you own eye to build a house that is not of glass  ... and I am sure you are confident to have your benchmark used to measure your own life. I congratulate you for having your house in order.

but then you go on to say in your next post .... "I'm not convinced that there will be "The Antichrist."...."

So your point is what Bonnie .... that you don't KNOW ...  and yet you are prepared to single out one group of people as sinners above the rest and imply they are the devil himself.

I don't condone homosexuality Bonnie but I find predjudice to be equally as damaging as a sin. Perhaps even more so because it prevents the Gospel from being shared to all men. 

Offline Bonnie

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Re: End Times
« Reply #12 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 19:43:25 »
. With the wide spread of Gay people I think he may possibility be Gay himself. .

Clearly to be casting stones you have taken the plank from you own eye to build a house that is not of glass  ... and I am sure you are confident to have your benchmark used to measure your own life. I congratulate you for having your house in order.

but then you go on to say in your next post .... "I'm not convinced that there will be "The Antichrist."...."

So your point is what Bonnie .... that you don't KNOW ...  and yet you are prepared to single out one group of people as sinners above the rest and imply they are the devil himself.

I don't condone homosexuality Bonnie but I find prejudice to be equally as damaging as a sin. Perhaps even more so because it prevents the Gospel from being shared to all men. 


Yep, I'm prejudiced if standing up for what is right is prejudiced. I have some queses like most people who have thought about End Times but like I said, I don't know. The Bible clearly states that if you do such things you are of your father, the devil.

If they want to leave their lifestyle of sin behind they have that opportunity through and by Jesus... just like we did.

You have a bad attitude towards me. I doubt anything I said would measure up to your self imposed standards.

Offline Eagle

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Re: End Times
« Reply #13 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 19:49:21 »
Quote
The word "Trinity" doesn't appear in the Bible either, but that doesn't mean God isn't a trinity.  The word "antiChrist" may only be in 1 John, but he is called many other titles throughout the whole Bible.  There will definitely be an Ant-Christ---it is clearly taught in Scripture---just read Daniel  "the little Horn"  and many other references.

You are very correct when you state ...."The word "Trinity" doesn't appear in the Bible ....". That is the difference the word antichrist is found in scripture and we have God given explanation of the word.


Reading scripture for what it says is very different then reading it for what we have been taught. Some times we skip over passages we think we know.  I have been amazed as t what i believed was written and what is truly there.  these scriptures in John were real eye/heart openers...


 1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 2:23  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

2Jn 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2Jn 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

2Jn 1:11  For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds

ex cathedra

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Re: End Times
« Reply #14 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 20:38:29 »
Roman Catholic scholar, W. F. Strojie,   “I scoff at the notion that anyone other than a pope could be the anti-Christ.

Offline luggr

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Re: End Times
« Reply #15 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 20:54:17 »
. With the wide spread of Gay people I think he may possibility be Gay himself. .

Clearly to be casting stones you have taken the plank from you own eye to build a house that is not of glass  ... and I am sure you are confident to have your benchmark used to measure your own life. I congratulate you for having your house in order.

but then you go on to say in your next post .... "I'm not convinced that there will be "The Antichrist."...."

So your point is what Bonnie .... that you don't KNOW ...  and yet you are prepared to single out one group of people as sinners above the rest and imply they are the devil himself.

I don't condone homosexuality Bonnie but I find prejudice to be equally as damaging as a sin. Perhaps even more so because it prevents the Gospel from being shared to all men.  


Yep, I'm prejudiced if standing up for what is right is prejudiced. I have some queses like most people who have thought about End Times but like I said, I don't know. The Bible clearly states that if you do such things you are of your father, the devil.

If they want to leave their lifestyle of sin behind they have that opportunity through and by Jesus... just like we did.

You have a bad attitude towards me. I doubt anything I said would measure up to your self imposed standards.

Bonnie firstly I have a bad attitude towards prejudice not you.

I am sorry if my pointing it out has caused you offense. I guess we have both been offended then.

Yes standing up for what is right is an admirable quality and I know at times a very difficult thing to do. I even gave that thought before I made my reply to you.
I guess my point and probably said a little too harshly is I don't think pulling people down is actually standing up.
I apologise if you feel I have tried to pull you down, I only wanted to reply.

Bonnie I too share your dismay by what we see in this world, but what I ask is for you to be mindful that these are people.
 These are the sinners and harlots whom Christ has made promises to, if only they would believe. They too have been deemed worthy of His love and he died for their sins too.
No different to yours and mine.

In this forum we are looking at end times and I am mindful of the fact that although some of us wait with impatience, we are told He delays in order to give more time for people to come to the knowledge of Him and His salvation.
If we villafy a group of people with our own judgments how can we then successfuly bring the gospel to them.    

That was what my point was.

I am so aware of the destruction caused by social group dynamics where a pack mentality singles out the weak, vulnerable, sick or lost  and condemns them to a life of torment. So many of our young are bullied to the point of suicide for this very reason. It is terribly sad.

I guess Bonnie to be more susinct, what I am saying is: You, myself and gay people are no different. If there is any difference at all, it is that some of us believe in the Salvation that comes from The Blood of The Lamb, Jesus Christ and unfortunately some don't. But thanks be to God we still have time to share His Good News.

and for your information Bonnie my self imposed standards are not that high so you definately measure up   ::smile::...  but then in the end I guess I'm the one who will be measured by it not you.
« Last Edit: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 21:13:18 by luggr »

ex cathedra

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Re: End Times
« Reply #16 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 21:07:56 »
I have no idea who or what he will be. Since I won't be here when he is revealed, I don't have to concern myself with it.


The Gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII
"To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.vii "
« Last Edit: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 21:15:33 by ex cathedra »

Offline luggr

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Re: End Times
« Reply #17 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 21:11:03 »
jkitty7---

If you read Revelation when it describes the beast it says of the him:

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition" (Rev. 17:8)

It appears that the "Beast" will at first be just a man, and he will reign for 3-1/2 years.  He will most likely be assasinated. But he will come back to life.  When he comes back to life though it will no longer be the man's soul ruling the body, but whomever has ascended out of the bottomless pit.  It most likely is someone who has lived on earth before, as it says he "was" and "is not" (at the moment), yet "shall ascend" from the bottomless pit.  This entity will "take over" the body and then reign the last 3-1/2 years which is called "the Great Tribulation" period.

Some actually believe this will be Judas as Jesus called him "the Son of Perdition" and Paul calls the Anti-Christ "the Son of Perdition".  Judas is the only person actually named this in the Bible.



Perhaps a genetic clone ... I know sounds preposterous or rather imposterous but almost feasible now.  ::smile::   Isn't Hitler's dna saved somewhere or was that from a movie  ::pondering::

ex cathedra

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Re: End Times
« Reply #18 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 21:30:28 »
jkitty7---

If you read Revelation when it describes the beast it says of the him:

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition" (Rev. 17:8)

It appears that the "Beast" will at first be just a man, and he will reign for 3-1/2 years.  He will most likely be assasinated. But he will come back to life.  When he comes back to life though it will no longer be the man's soul ruling the body, but whomever has ascended out of the bottomless pit.  It most likely is someone who has lived on earth before, as it says he "was" and "is not" (at the moment), yet "shall ascend" from the bottomless pit.  This entity will "take over" the body and then reign the last 3-1/2 years which is called "the Great Tribulation" period.

Some actually believe this will be Judas as Jesus called him "the Son of Perdition" and Paul calls the Anti-Christ "the Son of Perdition".  Judas is the only person actually named this in the Bible.



Perhaps a genetic clone ... I know sounds preposterous or rather imposterous but almost feasible now.  ::smile::   Isn't Hitler's dna saved somewhere or was that from a movie  ::pondering::



What happens when a Pope dies?

An inauguration Mass for the new pope was set for Sunday at 10 a.m. local time, 4 a.m. ET. Benedict XVI decided to spend the night at the Vatican hotel where cardinals have been staying, and to dine with the cardinals.
================================================================================
In 1895 an article from the Catholic National said this:
The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ, Himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.iii


Further Quotes from Vatican Documents show the Papacy's belief in Papal Infallibility:
He [the Pope] can pronounce sentences and judgments in contradiction to the rights of nations, to the law of God and man...He can free himself from the commands of the apostles, he being their superior, and from the rules of the Old Testament...The Pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.

ex cathedra

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Re: End Times
« Reply #19 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 21:43:53 »
 Father A. Pereira said this:
It is quite certain that Popes have never disapproved or rejected this title "Lord God the Pope" for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome by Gregory XIII.viii


Papal documents also say this:
Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God....dissolves, not by human but rather by divine authority....I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do...wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God, what do you make of me but God? Again, if prelates of the Church be called of Constantine for gods, I then being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods (emphasis added).ix  


The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth...by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.x





                          still  no clue who the real Antichrist is? rofl


Raising a chalice of wine into the air, Pope Leo toasted: "How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us and our predecessors."
 
  Pope Leo X died on December 1, 1521 (aged 46). He was succeeded by Pope Clement VII (1523-1534). 
« Last Edit: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 22:12:01 by ex cathedra »

Offline Eagle

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Re: End Times
« Reply #20 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 00:20:51 »
1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.



Does the Pope deny the Father and the Son?


1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Does the Pope deny that Jesus is thee Christ?


Which carries more weight in your thoughts   The scripture or the theories?

Offline luggr

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Re: End Times
« Reply #21 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 00:57:26 »
1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.



Does the Pope deny the Father and the Son?


1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Does the Pope deny that Jesus is thee Christ?


Which carries more weight in your thoughts   The scripture or the theories?

I was thinking exactly the same thing Eagle....  well perhaps not your last line  ::smile::

Offline Bonnie

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Re: End Times
« Reply #22 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 05:40:47 »
. With the wide spread of Gay people I think he may possibility be Gay himself. .

Clearly to be casting stones you have taken the plank from you own eye to build a house that is not of glass  ... and I am sure you are confident to have your benchmark used to measure your own life. I congratulate you for having your house in order.

but then you go on to say in your next post .... "I'm not convinced that there will be "The Antichrist."...."

So your point is what Bonnie .... that you don't KNOW ...  and yet you are prepared to single out one group of people as sinners above the rest and imply they are the devil himself.

I don't condone homosexuality Bonnie but I find prejudice to be equally as damaging as a sin. Perhaps even more so because it prevents the Gospel from being shared to all men.  


Yep, I'm prejudiced if standing up for what is right is prejudiced. I have some queses like most people who have thought about End Times but like I said, I don't know. The Bible clearly states that if you do such things you are of your father, the devil.

If they want to leave their lifestyle of sin behind they have that opportunity through and by Jesus... just like we did.

You have a bad attitude towards me. I doubt anything I said would measure up to your self imposed standards.

Bonnie firstly I have a bad attitude towards prejudice not you.

I am sorry if my pointing it out has caused you offense. I guess we have both been offended then.

Yes standing up for what is right is an admirable quality and I know at times a very difficult thing to do. I even gave that thought before I made my reply to you.
I guess my point and probably said a little too harshly is I don't think pulling people down is actually standing up.
I apologise if you feel I have tried to pull you down, I only wanted to reply.

Bonnie I too share your dismay by what we see in this world, but what I ask is for you to be mindful that these are people.
 These are the sinners and harlots whom Christ has made promises to, if only they would believe. They too have been deemed worthy of His love and he died for their sins too.
No different to yours and mine.

In this forum we are looking at end times and I am mindful of the fact that although some of us wait with impatience, we are told He delays in order to give more time for people to come to the knowledge of Him and His salvation.
If we villafy a group of people with our own judgments how can we then successfuly bring the gospel to them.    

That was what my point was.

I am so aware of the destruction caused by social group dynamics where a pack mentality singles out the weak, vulnerable, sick or lost  and condemns them to a life of torment. So many of our young are bullied to the point of suicide for this very reason. It is terribly sad.

I guess Bonnie to be more susinct, what I am saying is: You, myself and gay people are no different. If there is any difference at all, it is that some of us believe in the Salvation that comes from The Blood of The Lamb, Jesus Christ and unfortunately some don't. But thanks be to God we still have time to share His Good News.

and for your information Bonnie my self imposed standards are not that high so you definately measure up   ::smile::...  but then in the end I guess I'm the one who will be measured by it not you.


I guess by your thinking Jesus and the apostles were all prejudiced too. We are different than Gay people as far as the east is from the west.  I won't support it, pamper it or condone it.  If they want to leave that life of sin behind and accept Jesus then we are no different until then we are as different as heaven and hell.

Offline luggr

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Re: End Times
« Reply #23 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 08:22:05 »
. With the wide spread of Gay people I think he may possibility be Gay himself. .

Clearly to be casting stones you have taken the plank from you own eye to build a house that is not of glass  ... and I am sure you are confident to have your benchmark used to measure your own life. I congratulate you for having your house in order.

but then you go on to say in your next post .... "I'm not convinced that there will be "The Antichrist."...."

So your point is what Bonnie .... that you don't KNOW ...  and yet you are prepared to single out one group of people as sinners above the rest and imply they are the devil himself.

I don't condone homosexuality Bonnie but I find prejudice to be equally as damaging as a sin. Perhaps even more so because it prevents the Gospel from being shared to all men.  


Yep, I'm prejudiced if standing up for what is right is prejudiced. I have some queses like most people who have thought about End Times but like I said, I don't know. The Bible clearly states that if you do such things you are of your father, the devil.

If they want to leave their lifestyle of sin behind they have that opportunity through and by Jesus... just like we did.

You have a bad attitude towards me. I doubt anything I said would measure up to your self imposed standards.

Bonnie firstly I have a bad attitude towards prejudice not you.

I am sorry if my pointing it out has caused you offense. I guess we have both been offended then.

Yes standing up for what is right is an admirable quality and I know at times a very difficult thing to do. I even gave that thought before I made my reply to you.
I guess my point and probably said a little too harshly is I don't think pulling people down is actually standing up.
I apologise if you feel I have tried to pull you down, I only wanted to reply.

Bonnie I too share your dismay by what we see in this world, but what I ask is for you to be mindful that these are people.
 These are the sinners and harlots whom Christ has made promises to, if only they would believe. They too have been deemed worthy of His love and he died for their sins too.
No different to yours and mine.

In this forum we are looking at end times and I am mindful of the fact that although some of us wait with impatience, we are told He delays in order to give more time for people to come to the knowledge of Him and His salvation.
If we villafy a group of people with our own judgments how can we then successfuly bring the gospel to them.    

That was what my point was.

I am so aware of the destruction caused by social group dynamics where a pack mentality singles out the weak, vulnerable, sick or lost  and condemns them to a life of torment. So many of our young are bullied to the point of suicide for this very reason. It is terribly sad.

I guess Bonnie to be more susinct, what I am saying is: You, myself and gay people are no different. If there is any difference at all, it is that some of us believe in the Salvation that comes from The Blood of The Lamb, Jesus Christ and unfortunately some don't. But thanks be to God we still have time to share His Good News.

and for your information Bonnie my self imposed standards are not that high so you definately measure up   ::smile::...  but then in the end I guess I'm the one who will be measured by it not you.


I guess by your thinking Jesus and the apostles were all prejudiced too. We are different than Gay people as far as the east is from the west.  I won't support it, pamper it or condone it.  If they want to leave that life of sin behind and accept Jesus then we are no different until then we are as different as heaven and hell.

You don't have to guess what I'm thinking Bonnie I've written it down and if you cared enough to read it you will see that we agree.

Amo

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Re: End Times
« Reply #24 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 08:31:27 »
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1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.



Does the Pope deny the Father and the Son?


1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Does the Pope deny that Jesus is thee Christ?


Which carries more weight in your thoughts   The scripture or the theories?

Yes he does through the false doctrine created by a pope called the Immaculate Conception.

Immaculate Conception
THE DOCTRINE

In the Constitution Ineffabilis Deus of 8 December, 1854, Pius IX pronounced and defined that the Blessed Virgin Mary "in the first instance of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin."
"The Blessed Virgin Mary . . ." The subject of this immunity from original sin is the person of Mary at the moment of the creation of her soul and its infusion into her body.
". . .in the first instance of her conception . . ." The term conception does not mean the active or generative conception by her parents. Her body was formed in the womb of the mother, and the father had the usual share in its formation. The question does not concern the immaculateness of the generative activity of her parents. Neither does it concern the passive conception absolutely and simply (conceptio seminis carnis, inchoata), which, according to the order of nature, precedes the infusion of the rational soul. The person is truly conceived when the soul is created and infused into the body. Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin at the first moment of her animation, and sanctifying grace was given to her before sin could have taken effect in her soul.
". . .was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin. . ." The formal active essence of original sin was not removed from her soul, as it is removed from others by baptism; it was excluded, it never was simultaneously with the exclusion of sin. The state of original sanctity, innocence, and justice, as opposed to original sin, was conferred upon her, by which gift every stain and fault, all depraved emotions, passions, and debilities, essentially pertaining in her soul to original sin, were excluded. But she was not made exempt from the temporal penalties of Adam -- from sorrow, bodily infirmities, and death.
". . .by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race." The immunity from original sin was given to Mary by a singular exemption from a universal law through the same merits of Christ, by which other men are cleansed from sin by baptism. Mary needed the redeeming Saviour to obtain this exemption, and to be delivered from the universal necessity and debt (debitum) of being subject to original sin. The person of Mary, in consequence of her origin from Adam, should have been subject to sin, but, being the new Eve who was to be the mother of the new Adam, she was, by the eternal counsel of God and by the merits of Christ, withdrawn from the general law of original sin. Her redemption was the very masterpiece of Christ's redeeming wisdom. He is a greater redeemer who pays the debt that it may not be incurred than he who pays after it has fallen on the debtor.
Such is the meaning of the term "Immaculate Conception."
The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume VII
Copyright © 1910

Christ was fully God, and fully man, and this is our salvation.  He came in our flesh, as the scriptures conclusively testify.  His Father was God, and if His mother was separated from the rest of humanity by this supposed Immaculate Conception, then He was not one of us, since both His mother and Father were not one of us.  Thus He did not come in our flesh, which is the spirit of Antichrist.  This false doctrine attacks the core foundation of the gospel, which is that Christ became fully man, in order to save the same.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren,
that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Amo

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Re: End Times
« Reply #25 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 08:40:50 »
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"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend  out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition" (Rev. 17:8)

It appears that the "Beast" will at first be just a man, and he will reign for 3-1/2 years.  He will most likely be assasinated. But he will come back to life.  When he comes back to life though it will no longer be the man's soul ruling the body, but whomever has ascended out of the bottomless pit.  It most likely is someone who has lived on earth before, as it says he "was" and "is not" (at the moment), yet "shall ascend" from the bottomless pit.  This entity will "take over" the body and then reign the last 3-1/2 years which is called "the Great Tribulation" period.

Some actually believe this will be Judas as Jesus called him "the Son of Perdition" and Paul calls the Anti-Christ "the Son of Perdition".  Judas is the only person actually named this in the Bible.

A beast in biblical prophecy represents a kingdom, not just a man.  A study of the book of Daniel, in which the first four beasts of biblical prophecy are introduced, will reveal this.  The beast referred to in Rev. 17:8, is the resurrection of the holy Roman empire.  The Church of Rome ruled all of Europe at one time, but received a deadly would in 1798 when the Pope was torn from his throne and put in exile by the French general Berthier.  Now though, Rome's power is nearing a resurrection on a global scale.  When the kingdoms of this world begin to enforce her dogmas upon us again by law, her power will then be fully resurrected.  At that time, the end will be very near.

Offline Eagle

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Re: End Times
« Reply #26 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 09:11:09 »
The RRC no longer has an army.  Rome's power?  Power to do what?  How many Catholics are there how many Muslims?  Man has set 'Rome' up to be something something it is not.  You give  power to the RCC that God doesn't.

What group, church, peoples, nation, 'what ever', fits the description of antichrist given to us in scripture?   One that is not a stretch to see.  You work too had to make the RCC fit your plan when there are others boldly antichrist.

For the record i am not Catholic i do not agree with her doctrine.

Offline pointmade

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Re: End Times
« Reply #27 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 10:28:12 »
"We declare, say, define, and pronounce, that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman pontiff.

Offline Eagle

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Re: End Times
« Reply #28 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 10:33:25 »
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Today's pope ranks right along side Benny Hiin and Jimmy Swaggart . He can't do it to verify the truth as Peter did in Acts 3:1-11. This is exactly why the New Testament is a "dead letter" to the RCC....
Quote

Sure do agree with the above!

Amo

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Re: End Times
« Reply #29 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 14:15:17 »
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The RRC no longer has an army.  Rome's power?  Power to do what?  How many Catholics are there how many Muslims?  Man has set 'Rome' up to be something something it is not.  You give  power to the RCC that God doesn't.

What group, church, peoples, nation, 'what ever', fits the description of antichrist given to us in scripture?   One that is not a stretch to see.  You work too had to make the RCC fit your plan when there are others boldly antichrist.

For the record i am not Catholic i do not agree with her doctrine.

The Church of Rome has never had army to speak of.  She uses the armies and civil powers of the kings and leaders of this earth that submit to her power.  She hides in the background coercing and manipulating until her power becomes great enough, that it no longer matters who knows that she is the real cause of abusive government and persecution.  The facts of her history testify to the same, and could her dealings and manipulations with and of the rulers of the earth today be laid open before the people, the same truth would be evident to all.

She has a permanent seat at the United Nations, she entertains ambassadors from virtually every nation on earth, and the government of many nations including the United States of America are inundated with Roman Catholic politicians which are implementing the will of Rome within the same.  Which will, in many cases directly apposes the constitutional rights and freedoms of the peoples of the United States, and other countries which are being subjected to the same process.  This is all part of her resurrection, and is the same methodology she used the first time she usurped the power over people, of kings, and of God Himself.  The process is far from over, and we have not seen anything yet.


Offline fish153

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Re: End Times
« Reply #30 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 14:21:07 »
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The word "Trinity" doesn't appear in the Bible either, but that doesn't mean God isn't a trinity.  The word "antiChrist" may only be in 1 John, but he is called many other titles throughout the whole Bible.  There will definitely be an Ant-Christ---it is clearly taught in Scripture---just read Daniel  "the little Horn"  and many other references.

You are very correct when you state ...."The word "Trinity" doesn't appear in the Bible ....". That is the difference the word antichrist is found in scripture and we have God given explanation of the word.


Reading scripture for what it says is very different then reading it for what we have been taught. Some times we skip over passages we think we know.  I have been amazed as t what i believed was written and what is truly there.  these scriptures in John were real eye/heart openers...


 1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 2:23  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

2Jn 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2Jn 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

2Jn 1:11  For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds

Eagle--

Not really sure where you are going with this.  1 John 2:18 clearly says an "antichrist" will come----he is referring to the "person" pointed out by Scripture. He goes on to say that even at the point where he was living many "antichrists"(plural) were in existence.  They are smaller versions of what this ultimate Antichrist will be.  He then goes on to state some of the characteristics of what the Antichrist will believe, and what the "anti-christs" hold to.

But the person you praised for "reading the Bible for what it says" believes there won't even be an Antichrist, when the Bible clearly states there will be.  So I don't get your point.

Offline fish153

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Re: End Times
« Reply #31 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 14:26:55 »
"Some actually believe this will be Judas as Jesus called him "the Son of Perdition" and Paul calls the Anti-Christ "the Son of Perdition".  Judas is the only person actually named this in the Bible"

Interesting, the only place I find the term "anti-christ" is in 1 John 2:22, and here we are told that "he (anti-christ) is one who denies that Jesus is the Christ," There is a long line of people who have marched through history that do not believe that Jesus is the Christ.... In chapter 3, verse 4, John says that even now already is IT  in the world."  Here, John is speaking in the present tense as "it" being the false Dosetic teachers that were in the church teaching that Jesus was only a human. I cannot find" anti-christ" in Revelation or the book of Daniel.



Wow  some one who reads the scripture for what it says....   manna for you!

The word "Trinity" doesn't appear in the Bible either, but that doesn't mean God isn't a trinity.  The word "antiChrist" may only be in 1 John, but he is called many other titles throughout the whole Bible.  There will definitely be an Ant-Christ---it is clearly taught in Scripture---just read Daniel  "the little Horn"  and many other references.

There "will be many" which means more than one.  My theory on this. No one man could rise up and take over the entire world.


"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed". (Luke 2:1)

I would just point out that in Biblical terms "the whole world" or "all the world" is referring to the Jewish world. Or it refers to the WORLD known to the people living.  Note the verse Luke 2:1----do you think Caesar Augustus was saying that the WHOLE WORLD should be taxed? He was referring to his OWN EMPIRE.

The Anti-Christ may not rule THE ENTIRE WORLD----he may rule a large portion in which the Jews play an important role.

Again, the Bible definitely teaches that there will be a person, an "anti-christ", and his associate "the false prophet", who are judged and "thrown alive into the lake of fire".  

Offline Eagle

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Re: End Times
« Reply #32 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 14:40:03 »
We read John differently i do not read john to say there will be one man so powerfull he will be thee antichrist.
I read it to say there are guys who are antichrist and there will be guys who are antichrist.


The Revelation talks of a beast... not AN Antichrist.  John penned both , the little books of John and the Revelation. He through God ... or God through John.... chose not to use the word antichrist so i have a problem with changing the scripture to fit theology.

Offline fish153

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Re: End Times
« Reply #33 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 16:38:31 »
We read John differently i do not read john to say there will be one man so powerfull he will be thee antichrist.
I read it to say there are guys who are antichrist and there will be guys who are antichrist.


The Revelation talks of a beast... not AN Antichrist.  John penned both , the little books of John and the Revelation. He through God ... or God through John.... chose not to use the word antichrist so i have a problem with changing the scripture to fit theology.

Eagle---

I hear you, but the word "anti-Christ" actually doesn't mean "against Christ", but "in place of Christ" or a "copy of Christ".  If you read Revelation it is clear that two men will arise who will lead men astray. One of them will actually say he is God, and will sit in the temple showing himself to be God.  The other will act as a "false Prophet" pointing others to worship this man.   We know they are actual men because it says they are both "thrown alive into the Lake of Fire".

So, again, though Revelation doesn't label him "Anti-Christ" he most definitely is.  It calls him a "Beast" as many of the Biblical prophecies (Daniel for example) used animals to describe this person who is to come. He is the "little horn" growing out of the other horns on the head of a Beast.  Paul calls this person "The Son of Perdition" and definitely identifies him as one person.  I believe the Bible clearly teaches this if we investigate fully.

Offline Azrael

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Re: End Times
« Reply #34 on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 - 17:05:07 »
We read John differently i do not read john to say there will be one man so powerfull he will be thee antichrist.
I read it to say there are guys who are antichrist and there will be guys who are antichrist.


The Revelation talks of a beast... not AN Antichrist.  John penned both , the little books of John and the Revelation. He through God ... or God through John.... chose not to use the word antichrist so i have a problem with changing the scripture to fit theology.

Oh that happens all the time. Its called selective scripture picking. Its a defense to defend an argument with certain scripture.

 

     
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