Glen: "there is debate about whether the beast kingdom will be western Europe or the middle east
i think it will be a united kingdom of both
in Daniel we read of the 4th kingdom with teeth of iron (Rome), and nails of brass (Greece)
Rome was predominantly European, and Greece was mainly middle eastern
there are several prophecies which indicate that the beast will move south and east towards Israel
this is something that is happening now with the EU
after a huge war certain regions will develop (10), in these vicinities covering the roman and Greek empires - also i believe the Nazi empire (7th head), which would include parts of northern and north east Europe
this is something that has happened constantly throughout history after wars, new nations and regions developing.
Glen, didn't the "kingdoms" of Daniel 2 fall? The Roman empire is gone.....Only the kingdom that would never be "destroyed" still stands. The kingdom of Christ "that will never be destroyed" began at the time of the third kingdom (Rome). We read in Mark 1:14-15, "Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God and saying, The time is FULFILLED, and the kingdom of God is at hand:repent you, and believe the gospel."
"The time is fulfilled" Christ came NOT to "restore" the Jewish kingdom but to "set up" His own kingdom. God's dealing with the Jew, as a nation, were designed to bring the "heir" through whom we would receive the "adopotion" of sons. (Gal. 4:1-5; Gal. 4:22-31). Christ's kingdom is "spiritual," not fleshly, of this world. Cal. 3:26-29; John 18:36). Jesus told his disciples that His kingdom would "come with power" (Mark 9:1)., and they would live to see it. The "power" was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8) The kingdom and the power came the same day (Acts 2).
Anyway, that's how I read the text.
i do not agree the roman empire has been made extinct, but rather has appeared to be wounded to death on more than one occasion and continues today but not in the same united form
this can be reflected in the system of government and culture/traditions in western countries
descendants of this empire (both pagan and papal rome), have literally conquered almost the whole earth - british empire, (north america,india,hong kong,sth afr,oceania),the spanish and portuguese (south and central america), french, dutch, germans, and now they are gradually uniting as one and ever expanding
i agree christs kingdom did start back in romes day, but the kingdom is not yet full
jesus presence on earth did fulfill the beginning of his kingdom, but not the completion of it
the mount of transfiguration fulfilled what jesus said that some would not see death before they see
the kingdom come in power, that is in the form of a vision
there is also john and revelation
why would john prophesy about a beast that is extinct and is never going to come again?
as i said above rome appears to be destroyed (mortal wound), but really is not yet until christ does it directly himself