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Author Topic: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)  (Read 28766 times)

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Offline RalphMalph

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Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« on: Thu Mar 25, 2010 - 03:57:54 »
**THIS IS A SERIOUS POST; SERIOUS REPLIES ONLY!!!**
**THIS IS A THEORY; NOT GOSPEL TRUTH**

Is there anyone whom think there exists a smelly, disgusting presence in this world?
Has there ever been a person(s) you've met that will NOT agree with you on anything?
And they even agressively argue that the sky is not blue?!!!!!
Are they truly PSYCHOPATHIC to the core? Satanic? "FALLEN"?

You might want to read, further:

What if the Aliens are already here? And look just like us (Human). I believe -in fact (I KNOW!)- Time Travel is already here. Just research the Masons (Freemasons). We see their Lodges; Do we ever see anyone go in them?

I suggest the masons -not all, of course- Travel Time and are soley here to control who (which DNA types) breed and which ones are to suffer the loss of permenant death. They (the fallen angels) do this through stealth. In many ways: obvious and/or in secret.

They are here to KILL THE CONSCIENCE of those whom have one. In order to create
HELL ON EARTH, before killing humanity -altogether.


Please, discuss



« Last Edit: Thu Mar 25, 2010 - 04:07:25 by RalphMalph »

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Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« on: Thu Mar 25, 2010 - 03:57:54 »

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #1 on: Tue Mar 30, 2010 - 20:30:26 »
What you are saying sounds a little off the wall to me; but what I found, "The Fallen Angels Code", which is an alphabetical / etymological code embedded within the Biblical Hebrew language, is also "Off The Wall", so who am I to criticize ?

The "Fallen Angels Code" ?? Well yes, I posted most of the bit of it that I have decoded, (16 Pages), HERE :

http://www.k6plus.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1512

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #1 on: Tue Mar 30, 2010 - 20:30:26 »

k-pappy

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #2 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 08:06:08 »
JHM, is that like the Bible Code?

Bond

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #3 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 08:51:04 »
@ Bond : The "Bible Code" is a numerical code, first discovered over 60 years ago by a Czech Rabbi who found that if he skipped 50 Hebrew charaters between characters chosen, the word "Torah" was spelled out at the beginning of each of the books of Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The "Fallen Angels Code" is an "Alphabetical / Etymological Code" embedded within the Biblical Hebrew language. That is to say if you stack the words in the Old Testament in alphabetical order in Hebrew, (Which Strong's Hebrew Dictionary conveniently does for you), then read what you get, you find that there are sentences within it. Now that is something you don't get looking at an English dictionary.

Investigating further and following "Root Traces", (also conveniently provided by Strong's), you can find messages. The one concerning "The Fallen Angels" is an eye witness account of their arrival on earth, as recounted by at least 14 witnesses. Statements of Female witnesses are in descending alphabetical sequence, and Male witnesses are in ascending alphabetical sequence.

One major difference between the "Bible Code" and these codes, is the Bible code messages tend to be very short. That part of "The Fallen Angels Code" which I have cracked runs 16 pages.

NOTE : Most other concordance dictionaries will not work to find coded passages, because most of them take "proper names" out of the main sequence and list them separately. The catch is many Hebrew "proper names" have secondary meanings, and listing them separately, (which Strong's does NOT), breaks up the alphabetical sequence of the Hebrew.
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 12:24:57 by JHM »

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #3 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 08:51:04 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

k-pappy

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #4 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 08:53:35 »
I know about the Bible Code, I've studied it and find it fascinating.  I hadn't heard about the Angel Code.  It also sounds fascinating.  Thanks for the info!

Bond

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #4 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 08:53:35 »



Offline rezar

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #5 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 10:30:10 »
I think God impressed on him the number "50" for other reasons than to see the Torah.

God was probably telling the rabbi about Pentecost- but he didn't look into New Covenant salvation by grace!

Just my 2cents.


Fallen angels I don't believe exist anymore. Zech.13 says to us:

Idolatry Cut Off
 1 “In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness.
2 “It shall be in that day,

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #6 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 10:50:27 »
Further @ Bond : The scariest "Coded Message" I have encountered, (So scary that I have not investigated it further), pertains to "The Greatest Earthquake since man has been on the earth" (referred to in Revelation). It takes the form of a dialogue between two individuals, one of whom seems to be a prophet in a trance experiencing a vision, the other of whom is questioning him.

From memory, It runs more or less as follows :

Prophet : "A crack will open up in the eastern side of that house"
Questioner : Where ? When ?
Prophet : " First the eastern half then the western half will fall into the crack"
Questioner : Where ? When ?

There is more to it, you can find it by reading Strong's dictionaries.
« Last Edit: Thu Apr 01, 2010 - 09:20:20 by JHM »

Offline walker starr

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #7 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 11:17:08 »



   Rezar rabbis are a lot like pastors in this regard.  Some are real and some are fake.
   I suggest you don't lump them all together.  But, only a suggestion. ::smile::
   GOD bless.

Offline rezar

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #8 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 12:19:50 »
Yes, & I realize it's just a theory- but its premise & foundation is to 1st be questioned & then, imho, it would be rejected & forgotten.

Quote
The "Bible Code" is a numerical code, first discovered over 60 years ago by a Czech Rabbi

60 years ago brings us to modern times.  A "rabbi" is just a religious Jew today.

And I don't think there are any "pastors" EVEN "priests" that reject the Jewish Messiah in the 1st place as the Son of God.


All Jewish genealogies end with Christ's generation. Only those of "faith" are Jew & Gentile in Christ. That mystery was revealed through St. Paul 2,000 yrs. ago.

God left the temple made with hands.  The Gospel of the kingdom supersedes the Torah.
Hebrews 7:21-22,
21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him:


      “ The LORD has sworn
      And will not relent,

      ‘ You are a priest forever[a]
      According to the order of Melchizedek’

Offline RalphMalph

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #9 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 12:57:05 »
What you are saying sounds a little off the wall to me; but what I found, "The Fallen Angels Code", which is an alphabetical / etymological code embedded within the Biblical Hebrew language, is also "Off The Wall", so who am I to criticize ?

The "Fallen Angels Code" ?? Well yes, I posted most of the bit of it that I have decoded, (16 Pages), HERE :

http://www.k6plus.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1512


THANK YOU!!!!
I put this on my Favorites Bar.

I'll check it out.

PS- There's something fishy in this world ::rolling::

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #10 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 18:56:02 »
Well, its a pretty long read, because I quoted all sources used to confirm and back it up. But if you manage to get through it all, let me know what you think please, good or bad, doesn't matter. Just want opinions.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #11 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 19:12:35 »
PS- There's something fishy in this world ::rolling::
It's the Ninevites. ::Hooked::



JHM,

You've recreated Sethite gnosticism from the ground up!  Pretty impressive, and not a little alarming!




edit: grammar is our friend
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 19:31:54 by Wycliffes_Shillelagh »

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #12 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 19:20:29 »
@ Wycliffes Shillelagh : Pardon my ignorance; but I don't know what you mean.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #13 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 19:30:16 »
You know... I kind of feel like I'm pouring gasoline on a fire here, but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sethianism

Hmmm...wikipedia comes through as usual with a lousy synopsis, and a nice bibliography.

Apologies for the minimal effort in this answer.  Don't waste too much of your life chasing the links, k?

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #14 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 19:47:02 »
I didn't bother to read all of it; but I read enough to know that I don't agree with it. 1) I do NOT revere "Seth", given that Eve was seduced by a "Fallen Angel" named "Gadrel", one wonders who his father was, though thinking about that, it must have been Adam, since the "Fallen Angels" did not appear until the days of Jared. 2) I don't believe that GOD ever stole anything. 3) I don't take a negative view of GOD at all. etc. etc. PS : Wicked-Pedia is a lousy source. I have found stuff there more than once that I know to be false.
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 20:26:53 by JHM »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #15 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 19:55:19 »
Yeah, it's a lousy synopsis. 

The major belief of the Sethites (which wiki totally misses) was that they believed there to be 2 races of mankind, an elect branch and a corrupt branch.  They believed that Eve bore the child of "that wicked one" and that child was named Cain.

They believed that Seth was the legitimate child, from whence were descended the elect race of men.  Hence their taking a name that meant "descendents of Seth."

Some of that stuff in the synopsis is speculative, and only based on the beliefs of gnostic groups that came after them.  Not that I'm promoting Sethianism - I don't think it's a very good system of belief.

Jarrod

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #16 on: Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 20:41:25 »
Hmm, Cain and Able were born before Seth, and since Seth was born when Adam was 130 years old, Cain could not have been one of the offspring of the Fallen Angels, who did not arrive until the days of Jared, who was born when Adam was 462 years old.

In my view, Cain, (who was black), was descended from Lilith, (who was also black), don't get me wrong here, there is nothing wrong with being black, because Enoch, ("Beloved of GOD" Per The Book Of Secrets Of Enoch Ch 24), was also black; and the "Fallen Angels" were white. (And so am I).
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 04, 2010 - 22:37:08 by JHM »

Offline RalphMalph

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Satanism = Inbreeding (KILLING GOD GENE)
« Reply #17 on: Sun Apr 04, 2010 - 08:12:38 »

You've recreated Sethite gnosticism from the ground up!  Pretty impressive, and not a little alarming!

OK, this is still on Topic.

Few Scientists have hypothesised (wild guess?) about a God Gene within Human DNA.

"The God gene hypothesis is based on a combination of behavioral genetic, neurobiological and psychological studies. The major arguments of the theory are: (1) spirituality can be quantified by psychometric measurements; (2) the underlying tendency to spirituality is partially heritable; (3) part of this heritability can be attributed to the gene VMAT2; (4) this gene acts by altering monoamine levels; and (5) spirituality arises in a population because spiritual individuals are favored by natural selection..."

Satanism, in my opinion here, is the Practice of Interbreeding.
Dynasty Familes are Above the Law, for they make the Laws. They always had money; always get away with Serving Time (ie CEO's stole 2.37 Trillion from American People/no prison time)

Inbreeding has been in Royalty since long, long ago.

Inbreeding destroys the GOD Gene.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #18 on: Sun Apr 04, 2010 - 22:12:15 »
I don't think you have to go that far to condemn inbreeding, Ralph.  There are enough good arguments against it already. ::smile::

son of God

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #19 on: Mon Apr 05, 2010 - 02:48:13 »
I don't think you have to go that far to condemn inbreeding, Ralph.  There are enough good arguments against it already. ::smile::

Speaking of inbreeding....
 
A few years back, while in the city, I saw a bumper sticker that read: Stop inbreeding -- ban country music.

I wondered if that city kid ever drove through the countryside, and if so, how long it would take before he had problems with the locals.

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #20 on: Fri Apr 23, 2010 - 20:38:26 »
Further to what I said about the "Fallen Angels Code", I found my little notebook in which I started to work on the "Anakim" section of the code which deals with the enslavement of humans by the "Fallen Angels", the repair of the "Fallen Angels" spaceship, the cohitation with human women by the "Fallen Angels" and the bearing of children sired by the "Fallen Angels". What follows is a list of "Strong's" Hebrew Dictionary numbers and their meanings :

5645 : Darkness
5647 : Enslave
5648 : Work
5649 : Servant
5650 : Bondage
5652 : Work
5653 : Work
5654 : Worker Of Edom
5655 : Serving God
5656 : Work Bondage
5657 : Store Of Servants
5658 : Servitude
5659 : Servitude Bondage
5678 : Anger Rage
5707 : Wittness
5713 : Testimony
5715 : Wittness Testimony
5749 : Duplicate Testimony
5750 : Repeatedly
5753 : Commit Iniquity
5758 : Perverseness
5759 : A Babe
5760 : Ungodly
5762 : Ruin(s)
5763 : Suckle Give Milk
5764 : A Babe Infant
5765 : Unrighteous
5766 : Evil Wickedness
5767 : Unjust Unrighteous A Burnt Offering
5768 : A Suckling Child
5769 : Always Perpetual
5770 : To Watch
5771 : Evil Fault Sin
5772 : Sexual Cohabitation
5773 : Perversity
5774 : To Fly - Flee
5775 : A Bird
5776 : A Fowl
5777 : Lead (Metal)
5778 : Birdlike
5779 : Take Advice
5780 : Consultation
5781 : To Be Pressed
5782 : To Wake Up - Opening Of The Eyes
5783 : To Be Made Naked
5786 : Blind
5787 : Blind
5788 : Blindness
5789 : To Hasten
5790 : To Speak In Season
5791 : To Wrest - Overthrow
5792 : Wrong
5793 : Succoring
5794 : Strong Fierce Greedy
5795 : He Goats
5796 : Goat
5797 : Boldness Loud Might
5798 : Strength
5799 : Azazel (Azazel was one of the "Fallen Angels" - the one who taught men mining and metalworking according to the Book Of Enoch, further the one of whom GOD said "To him ascribe ALL sin".
5800 : Relinquish Fall Forsake Leave.


Those are from Strong's Hebrew Dictionary in alphabetical order in Hebrew. I find there is a definite drift to it. Those are not random words, they convey a message.
« Last Edit: Mon May 03, 2010 - 05:36:14 by JHM »

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #21 on: Thu May 20, 2010 - 07:58:58 »
@ Wycliffe Shillelagh : Since you have read and commented on the "Fallen Angels Code" post that I made at another site, perhaps you might care to comment on my previous post in this thread.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #22 on: Mon May 24, 2010 - 18:33:54 »
@ Wycliffe Shillelagh : Since you have read and commented on the "Fallen Angels Code" post that I made at another site, perhaps you might care to comment on my previous post in this thread.
I think your theory is interesting in the way a puzzle would be - it engages the brain.  However, it's also very crude, and needs a lot of work in order to presented with any semblance of credibility.

Currently, you have a good link to Jewish literature, and a somewhat weak link to the linguistics of one particular dialect of a certain ancient language.  You could stand to shore up the link to both, and you need to establish links to other sources as well.

I would propose a four-fold plan of attack.  Create links to:

Literature
History
Archaeology
Language

You could improve upon the link to Literature by citing more different ancient Jewish sources.  1Enoch play up this theme largely.  2Enoch is a little dodgy but plays on some of the same themes.  You should also check Jubilees, Jasher, the Pseudepigrapha, and the Babylonian Talmuds and Midrash for peshers on early Genesis.

You could also stand to link in some non-Jewish sources: the Enuma Elish,  and the Epic of Gilgamesh come to mind.  There are many more I'm sure I'm forgetting.  The Mesopotamian flood stories would seem to be relevant to the discussion.  Also might be a good idea to relate the various ancient pantheons of gods together and see how they are viewed by the Jewish literature.  I believe it may have something to do with your fallen angels.

Finally, you need to really nail the connection to the Bible, since it is your primary source and foundation of your argument.  You probably need to have an apocalyptic interpretation of early Genesis, but you don't have one worked out to any large degree.  Your story starts in Gen 6, and you have 5+ chapters to account for before that time.  You also should focus on the geneologies - they lend strong support to any argument that starts and ends with the reckoning of some heredity, even an evil heredity of giants and whatnot.

The book of Daniel relates stories of "watchers."  It also has an interesting apocalyptic view of the (fallen) angels of your story.  Can you make anything of the apocryphons of Daniel?

Jude also follows the Enoch story, replete with watchers, and a credulous take on the fallen angels conscription to darkness.

As far as History goes, you need to link your story to definite times and places.

What you are doing there depends largely on how you define the flood, so you should do that first.  Is it global or local?  How do you explain the continued existence of giants after the flood?  Does Nimrod have a part to play?

Some documents which are primarily historical would be in order: The Amarna letters, and Babylonian kings list.  Any steles or inscriptions that would be helpful?

Geography also is a part of history, since boundaries and maps change.  What did the maps look like at the time of your story?

At the least, try to define some words describing the places where our story takes place - heavens, earth, paradise, Eden, the garden in Eden, Canaan, Jordan, Trans-Jordan, Dilmun, Egypt, Aram, Padan-Aram, Babylon/Babel, Ararat/Urartu, Asshur/Assyria, etc.  Where does this story take place?

Archaeological data is very convincing if it fits your theory.  But first you have to decide where we're looking at digging.  There's some interesting things to be found about the Urartu (Ararat) that could deal with flood stuff, the relationship of the Hurrians and Mittani to the same, etc.

I also recommend looking at the important mountains of ancient Mesopotamia.  Their names, their importance, etc.  Some hold a link to your fallen angels.

Also, you should look at major global events that are substantiated archaeologicially, such as the eruption at Santorini, and the Younger Dryas event.  Do they fit into your story?

Another aspect of archaeology is symbolology.  What symbols were associated with what groups?  How are those symbols used in the literature?

Investigate discoveries.  Your theory holds that the various fallen angels taught mankind.  What groups had certain discoveries first?  Who had iron first?  Who had the bow?  Who had explosives?  Why do certain discoveries occur first in certain areas, and not all concentrated in one area?

Geology and anthropology might also be investigated.  What are the characteristics of certain areas?  Are there fault lines?  Volcanos?  Hot springs?  Seeping tar?  Swampland?  How about exports?  What does a certain area export?  What do they import?  What do they go to war in order to obtain?  Are their gods and demons related to these things?

I haven't even gotten to Language, and that may be the most important pillar of the argument.  Shall I continue? 

Are you willing to really work to prove out your theory?  What if you prove your theory wrong - will you be able to accept that?

Jarrod

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #23 on: Mon May 24, 2010 - 20:03:00 »
Actually I have the Book of Jubilees and The Book of Jasher, and quote them very briefly in the stuff you are referring to. As for the first five chapters of Genesis, I deal with them in my "Scripture Studies" document which I share with those who request me to do so. As regards your other comments, I am NOT a Biblical scholar; but rather just an exceptionally intelligent person, who tries to interpret the Bible in such a manner that nothing is left "Au Contraire". That being to say I try to interpret it in a way that is consistant with everything  relating to any given subject. Re knowledge of ancient geography, not much, similarly languages and ancient texts. Like I said previously I leave translation to the experts, and concentrate on interpretation.

For what it is worth, I have also read the "Book of Adam and Eve","The Testament of Levy", "The Book of Mary" and others.
« Last Edit: Mon May 24, 2010 - 23:13:48 by JHM »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #24 on: Mon May 24, 2010 - 23:13:47 »
Are my posts helpful to you at all?  They are intended to be, even if I am a bit of an #@& sometimes.

So.  What is your take on early Genesis?

Young earth literal?
Old earth day-age?
Gap theory?
Is the whole thing an allegory?  Parts of it?  Is it literal, but the "names have been changed to protect the innocent?"

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #25 on: Mon May 24, 2010 - 23:34:20 »
Young earth literal, NO, the scientists can't ALL be wrong about so many things. Gap theory, Old Earth Day Age, pardon my ignorance; but since I do not associate with any groups, I am not familiar with te exact meaning of those terms. My own belief is that the days of creation were widely separated, by virtue of "Relativity". That is to say that six consecutive days of GOD' time were much more than that in "Earth Time". My "Scripture Studies" document covers that and "Evolution", (aka "Evil-ution" or "Devil-ution"), in some detail explaining how it was posible for GOD to create what we see in six consecutive days of his time, and why that time does not equate with our time, and why creation better fits the scientific facts than "Evil-ution", which I call  that, because that theory has probably led more people to disbelieve in GOD than all other factors combined.

Re your posts being helpful, I would say very helpful, in the sense that they have kept the topics alive. When you first responded the Babylon thread had 600 and some odd hits, and that after being posted upwards of a year ago. In the relatively short time you have been responding that number has more than doubled. The Bible tells us that many sins will be forgiven he who leads another to redemption. If therefore one person's life is saved because they read and heeded the Babylon thread, then collectively we have earned a lot of forgiveness. Thanks very much.
« Last Edit: Tue May 25, 2010 - 07:40:20 by JHM »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #26 on: Tue May 25, 2010 - 02:10:14 »
That would probably be called day-age, the idea being that a day of God's time might be an age of man's time.

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #27 on: Tue May 25, 2010 - 07:31:17 »
No, it's not that. It is relativity. GOD's time can vary from being equal to ours to being much slower depending on how fast he is traveling. Einstein showed that time is relative to the speed at which whoever or whatever experiences said time is traveling. The faster the travel, the more time slows down. At the speed of light time stops.

Six Days

All throughout creation, The Lord came and went;  descending to earth,  each morning at dawn;
Pruning those branches,  whose purpose was spent;  and sowing new seeds,  before moving on;
For many mansions had vineyards,  in his Kingdom above;  and these he tended with care;
But his garden on earth,  he lavished with love;  for his bride and children lived there.
There must have been need;  of very great speed;  o'er the distance he had to fly;
For he travelled so fast;  millennia went past;  in less than the blink of an eye;
So some had their day;  while he was away;  overseeing afar through the night;
Returning ere long;  and finding the strong;  construing their might as right.


Read 2 Samuel 22 : 2 - 20, then tell me what you think it means when it says the seafloor was laid bare by the blast of breath from GOD's nostrils. (That's another one that people duck around, - i.e. do NOT take ino account when formulating their interpretations.)
« Last Edit: Tue May 25, 2010 - 07:52:21 by JHM »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #28 on: Tue May 25, 2010 - 14:27:23 »
I understand General Relativity.  However, this would mean God is traveling near the speed of light.  I believe the Godhead to be transcendant to this system and omnipresent within it, so that doesn't make much sense to me.  It would seem to me that you would have to believe that God is an extra-terrestrial, corporeal being, in order to maintain this idea.

It would also make suppositions about the source of the Genesis text that I do not share.

As to 2Sam 22, it is basically another Psalm of David, and it is about rescue and resurrection.  The phrase you mention basically pertains to the triumph of order over chaos.  Of life over the afterlife.

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #29 on: Tue May 25, 2010 - 15:14:00 »
You are right about relativity, BUT in my opinion wrong about the nature of GOD. The Holy Spirit fits the description you are according GOD; but GOD Himself and Christ are, in my opinion, manifestations of that Spirit. As for the qustion about "The blast of breath from GOD's nostrils laying bare the seafloor", you did not answer it; but rather talked around it. You are correct in saying it is essentially a psalm of David, because in fact it duplicates Psalm 18. The Bible frequently duplicates IMPORTANT parts to insure against their loss over the ages. And what Psalm 18 and 2nd Samuel 22 : 2 - 20 describe is NOT about resurection, though it is about RESCUE. What it describes is the Actions of GOD, when he as Moses promised, did the fighting for the Israelites, when they were confronted by the Egyptians at the Red Sea; and studying it helps in understanding the nature of GOD.

See Exodus 14 : 9-10 : (Jerusalem Bible)
Exodus 14 : 9 - 10 : So the Egyptians gave chase and came up with them where they lay encamped by the sea---all the horses, the chariots of Pharaoh, his horsemen, his army—near Pi-hahiroth, facing Baal-zephon. And as Pharaoh approached, the sons of Israel looked round—and there were the Egyptians in pursuit of them! The sons of Israel were terrified and cried out to Yahweh.             

See Exodus 14 : 13-14 : (Jerusalem Bible)
Exodus 14 : 13 - 14 : Moses answered the people, ‘Have no fear! Stand firm, and you will see what Yahweh will do to save you today: the Egyptians you see today, you will never see again. Yahweh will do the fighting for you: you have only to keep still.’

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #30 on: Tue May 25, 2010 - 16:50:56 »
You are right about relativity, BUT in my opinion wrong about the nature of GOD. The Holy Spirit fits the description you are according GOD; but GOD Himself and Christ are, in my opinion, manifestations of that Spirit.
I would point out that your understanding is contrary to all the early creeds.  According to the Nicene Creed, the Spirit proceeds from the Father; the Father does not proceed from the Spirit.  Scripturally, "the Spirit was poured out," and is described as breath or water coming FROM God everywhere and always through both Old and New Testaments.

Quote
As for the qustion about "The blast of breath from GOD's nostrils laying bare the seafloor", you did not answer it; but rather talked around it. You are correct in saying it is essentially a psalm of David, because in fact it duplicates Psalm 18. The Bible frequently duplicates IMPORTANT parts to insure against their loss over the ages. And what Psalm 18 and 2nd Samuel 22 : 2 - 20 describe is NOT about resurection, though it is about RESCUE. What it describes is the Actions of GOD, when he as Moses promised, did the fighting for the Israelites, when they were confronted by the Egyptians at the Red Sea; and studying it helps in understanding the nature of GOD.
Firstly, I did answer the question; it isn't my fault you don't see the connection.

Secondly, this in no way refers to the events of the Exodus.  The "waters" in question are named specifically in the text just before this.  There is a two-fold metaphor here.  I'll color code it for you:

Water metaphors in bold.
Words equating the waters to death in Red.
Words equating the waters to his enemies in Green.

2Sa 22:5   When the waves of death compassed me, the floods of ungodly men made me afraid; 
2Sa 22:6   The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me; 
...
2Sa 22:16   And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils. 
2Sa 22:17   He sent from above, he took me; he drew me out of many waters;
2Sa 22:18   He delivered me from my strong enemy, [and] from them that hated me: for they were too strong for me. 

The association of waters with death is a theme in the epics of Mesopotamia.  A man might be held prisoner in the Absu of Ea (Enuma Elish), might need to cross said Absu in order to reach Marduk in the afterlife (depictions uncovered by archaeologists), or perhaps simply travel across the oceans, and under the world (Epic of Gilgamesh) to reach his final destination.

This is what David alludes to.  He is "compassed by" waves of death and sorrows of hell - they are equivalents in the parallelism of the poetry.  He is saying he is so far gone that he is already passing through the waters of "the deep" into the afterlife.  God miraculously peels back the waters and rips him from death's grasp, sets him on solid ground, and delivers his enemies to him for destruction.  It's good poetry.

Your reading comprehension fails here because you aren't familiar with the history and literature of the period.

Jarrod

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #31 on: Tue May 25, 2010 - 18:02:55 »
In some ways you are as bad as the local Police. You deliberately suppress evidence which runs counter to your theory. You go on about the metaphors David used to describe the situation confronting the Israelites, while completely Ignoring the parts which describe the actions GOD took to save them. Further, you did not say what you thought  : "Then the channels of the sea were seen, the foundations of the world were laid bare, at the rebuke of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils." meant, you simply said it was unimportant.

See 2 Samuel 22 : 2 - 20 (Revised Standard Version)

2 Samuel 22 2-20 : He said, “The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer, my  God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge, my savior; thou savest me from violence. I call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised, and I am saved from my enemies.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #32 on: Tue May 25, 2010 - 19:07:39 »
In some ways you are as bad as the local Police. You deliberately suppress evidence which runs counter to your theory. You go on about the metaphors David used to describe the situation confronting the Israelites, while completely Ignoring the parts which describe the actions GOD took to save them. Further, you did not say what you thought  : "Then the channels of the sea were seen, the foundations of the world were laid bare, at the rebuke of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils." meant, you simply said it was unimportant.

See 2 Samuel 22 : 2 - 20 (Revised Standard Version)

2 Samuel 22 2-20 : He said, “The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer, my  God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge, my savior; thou savest me from violence. I call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised, and I am saved from my enemies.

Offline JHM

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #33 on: Tue May 25, 2010 - 19:59:14 »
 ::doh::  ::cryingtears:: Sorry to hear that, without you doubtless the thread will drift into obscurity. Re my accusation, you ignored the parts about smoke, fire, and thunder, coming from "The LORD" when he delivered the Israelites from the hands of the Egyptians. Further you seem to think this passage refers to David being delivered from the Hands of Saul. It would hardly be necessary in that case for "The LORD" to have sent out arrows to scatter them, and lightning to rout them, never mind coals of fire flaming forth from Him. Nor was David surrounded by water when in the hands of Saul. Further the bit about "The blast of breath from his nostrils laying bare the seafloor " is an "Au Contraire" sore thumb sticking up in the middle of your interpretation theory, so you just ignore it, saying it isn't important when asked to explain it.

This clearly is a paean of praise composed by David to commemorate the defeat of the Egyptians and rescue of the Israelites by GOD at the Red Sea. David is not refering to something which happened to him personally, but rather to something which happened to the Israelites, whom King  David personifies as himself.

And when GOD delivered him from the hands of Saul  and the hands of all his enemies, (who seem to have been numerous), he sang a song of praise praising GOD for all he had done for the Israelites.
« Last Edit: Tue May 25, 2010 - 22:32:16 by JHM »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Fallen Angels (Look Just Like Humans)
« Reply #34 on: Wed May 26, 2010 - 12:39:40 »
Just because David uses language from Exodus, does not mean that he is talking about the Exodus.  He is clearly talking about his own deliverance from his enemies.

The "seas" and "waves" and "floods" here are not really water.  It is a metaphor.  They are people, and enemies.  They are also "death" in a second metaphor, which I've already talked about.  This is not speculation.  The text clearly equates waters to enemies to death.

If God "blows them back" it means He is driving back David's enemies.  If "the earth is laid bare" we ought to understand that "the earth" is Israel, and the enemies which covered her are removed.

If God plucks David out of these "waters of death" we should understand that David is playing on words - it was a common belief that the souls of men passed through water on their way to the hereafter.

If you'd like to discuss the Exodus, we could make a post about it, probably in Apologetics, or History.  Otherwise, it is only tangentially connected to this thread.

Jarrod