First Rapture is According to Readiness

[BondServant]

No, you read that right.  After the rapture it is too late.  There is no salvation.  That is why I do not believe in a pre-trib rapture.  Jesus told us when he comes back for his people, everyone else is left out in the cold...permanently.

Bond

[Stucky]

No, you read that right.  After the rapture it is too late.  There is no salvation.  That is why I do not believe in a pre-trib rapture.  Jesus told us when he comes back for his people, everyone else is left out in the cold...permanently.

Bond

Now I understand.  I'd be interested in seeing the Scripture you use to back up your statement  that "when he comes back for his people, everyone else is left out in the cold...permanently."  Just so I can see the context of the Scripture.   

[BondServant]

No, you read that right.  After the rapture it is too late.  There is no salvation.  That is why I do not believe in a pre-trib rapture.  Jesus told us when he comes back for his people, everyone else is left out in the cold...permanently.

Bond

Now I understand.  I'd be interested in seeing the Scripture you use to back up your statement  that "when he comes back for his people, everyone else is left out in the cold...permanently."  Just so I can see the context of the Scripture.   

You read my study, right?  That has the context.

In addition, read Matt 25, 1 Thess 4 and 2 Thess 2.

Bond

[Stucky]

No, you read that right.  After the rapture it is too late.  There is no salvation.  That is why I do not believe in a pre-trib rapture.  Jesus told us when he comes back for his people, everyone else is left out in the cold...permanently.

Bond

Now I understand.  I'd be interested in seeing the Scripture you use to back up your statement  that "when he comes back for his people, everyone else is left out in the cold...permanently."  Just so I can see the context of the Scripture.   

You read my study, right?  That has the context.

In addition, read Matt 25, 1 Thess 4 and 2 Thess 2.

Bond

Bond,

I don't know the study you'tr talking about and I reviewed the Scriptures you mentioned and see nothing that I can interpret even close to what you said.  Sorry.

[BondServant]

Here's the study...you told me you read it.

http://www.uebelecentral.com/rapture.htm

When the Holy Spirit leaves, it is impossible to get saved.

Bond

[larry2]

Here's the study...you told me you read it.

http://www.uebelecentral.com/rapture.htm

When the Holy Spirit leaves, it is impossible to get saved.

Bond

Matthew 25:1  Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
 
Matthew 25:3  They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: (What does oil represent? They had lamps.) 

Matthew 25:6  And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. (When to you is midnight?)

Revelation 19:7  Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. (How)

Revelation 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. (Or righteous works)
 
Mark 13:35  Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: (We see four instances here of our Master's coming.)

I read you stating no one will be saved after the Holy Spirit is gone. Why would He ever leave? Even in the new Jerusalem He is there in  Revelation 22:1.  And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. (This is Living Water)

I think you may be thinking that 2 Thessalonians 2:7 is talking of the Holy Spirit. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (Hinders) will let, until he be taken out of the way. Satan is bound at that time; not the Holy Spirit.

My thoughts.

[Stucky]

Here's the study...you told me you read it.

http://www.uebelecentral.com/rapture.htm

When the Holy Spirit leaves, it is impossible to get saved.

Bond

Sorry Bond, I don't remember when I said that but I must have lied.  I read it this time though and find it interesting but I disagree with his interpretations of scripture, too many for me to address here mainly cuz I'm lazy and not a good debator with the likes of you (that's a compliment).  As always, I respect your opinion but since it's not a salvation issue I won't debate it.  I'm not too lazy to debate those.

[Stucky]

Here's the study...you told me you read it.

http://www.uebelecentral.com/rapture.htm

When the Holy Spirit leaves, it is impossible to get saved.

Bond

I disagree with this.  After the Church leaves, the Holy Spirit will be released from His Church Age Ministry.  With our resurrection bodies we’ll no longer have a sin nature with its accompanying desire to sin, so we won’t have need of the Holy Spirit’s counsel and conviction.  All of the ways and workings of our Creator will be clear to us so we won’t have need of supernatural insight to help us understand. (1 Cor. 13:12)  Also the promise of our inheritance will have been fulfilled so we’ll no longer have need of a guarantee that God will provide it.

At that point the Holy Spirit will be free to assume something like His Old Testament ministry on Earth, still convicting people of their sins and providing supernatural power and ability for salvation and good works.  He just won’t be sealed within believers as a guarantee of their redemption.  Eternal Security is a blessing exclusive to the Church.

[BondServant]

Brother Larry there are two reasons:

1)  2 Thess 2:7-8:  7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

The Holy Spirit is holding back the man of lawlessness.  The Holy Spirit will leave the earth and the man of lawlessness will be revealed.

2)  Matt 25, the parable of the 10 virgins.  The ones not ready when the Groom returns are left out in the cold.

Thus, once Jesus comes for His people, the Holy Spirit will depart the earth and those left behind will be left out in the cold.

 Bond

[larry2]

Brother Larry there are two reasons:

1)  2 Thess 2:7-8:  7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

The Holy Spirit is holding back the man of lawlessness.  The Holy Spirit will leave the earth and the man of lawlessness will be revealed.

2)  Matt 25, the parable of the 10 virgins.  The ones not ready when the Groom returns are left out in the cold.

Thus, once Jesus comes for His people, the Holy Spirit will depart the earth and those left behind will be left out in the cold.

 Bond

Yeah I knew that's what your were saying, but where do you get the idea that it is the Holy Spirit hindering Satan. To me He works in us and we are the ones hindering Jesus from carrying out His judgment upon this world as long as we're here. Jesus must remove us first.

Even after that there are some elect left that the Lord says this in Matthew 24:22.  "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
 

[Stucky]

  HEY, am I invisible here?  Did either of you read MY post?  C'mon guys, I wanna be part of this discussion.   

[BondServant]

Brother larry, the scripture you quoted...as well as other evidence that there are believers during the first half of the tribulation is why I do not believe in the pre-trib theory.

Brother stucky, please accept my apologies.  You had stated you did not want to debate the issue and my impression is that you had "agreed to disagree."  I was trying to honor you wishes, not ignore you, I promise.

 Bond

[Stucky]

Brother larry, the scripture you quoted...as well as other evidence that there are believers during the first half of the tribulation is why I do not believe in the pre-trib theory.

Brother stucky, please accept my apologies.  You had stated you did not want to debate the issue and my impression is that you had "agreed to disagree."  I was trying to honor you wishes, not ignore you, I promise.

 Bond

Sorry, Bond.  See how fast my memory lapses.  It's a wonder you folks even LET me participate.  I guess what I was debating though is kind of a salvation issue and not the argument that wasn't.

You said that after the rapture non-believers are left out in the cold.  When, exactly do you believe the reapture occurs?  At Jesus 2nd coming when He stops Armageddon?  If so, then we can't debate because we are discussing apples and oranges then.  I'll wait for your replay before I say anything else.   

[larry2]

HEY, am I invisible here?  Did either of you read MY post?  C'mon guys, I wanna be part of this discussion.   

   I'm sorry, I somehow missed your post while I was typing mine I suppose. When the Church is in heaven, the Holy Spirit will still be reproving the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment during the last three and one half of the tribulation and the coming millennium. On the earth at the end of the millennium Satan will be released, gather the nations to compass the camp of the saints, and fire will come down to make crispy critters out of them. These saints had to be saved at some time.

My thoughts.
 

[Stucky]

HEY, am I invisible here?  Did either of you read MY post?  C'mon guys, I wanna be part of this discussion.   

   I'm sorry, I somehow missed your post while I was typing mine I suppose. When the Church is in heaven, the Holy Spirit will still be reproving the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment during the last three and one half of the tribulation and the coming millennium. On the earth at the end of the millennium Satan will be released, gather the nations to compass the camp of the saints, and fire will come down to make crispy critters out of them. These saints had to be saved at some time.

My thoughts.
 

Since you agree with me on that point, you are correct.