Author Topic: How is it that all of the 144,000 HOLY ONES are alive at the endtimes and.....  (Read 2691 times)

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Offline afaithfulone4u

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have been sealed from the harm to come upon the earth?
Why does Paul say WE who REMAIN alive spiritually alive, shall be caught up?

How is it that before now, NONE in the past were made holy  to be in the 144,000 out of all the 2,000 yrs since the Holy Spirit was given?
Could it be that it took a grace period to perfect our souls.
1 Thess 4:15-17

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV
2 Cor 12:2

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
KJV

Rev 12:5-6

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule(RULE AND REIGN WITH CHRIST) all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.KJV
Mid tribulation 3-1/2yrs will the rest of the churches offspring who were not worthy to go will go to a place prepard by God along with the Jews who after the eartquake will go through Jacobs troubles once Satan is throne down to earth and the son's caught up.

We must bring as many unbelieving Jews into the body of Christ as we can so that they will not have to go through the last half of the GREAT TRIBULATION to be marty'red.
« Last Edit: Fri Nov 30, 2012 - 14:40:00 by afaithfulone4u »

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Offline Trumpeter

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Rev 7:1   After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree.


Rev 7:2   Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea,


Rev 7:3   saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."

The wicked get their seal -666- under the super-deciever, the great imitator, the Antichrist(chapter 13:17-18). The genuine believers receive their seal from the angel of God at this point in time.

Rev 7:4   And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred [and] forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel [were] sealed:


Rev 7:5   of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand [were] sealed; [fn] of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand [were] sealed; of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand [were] sealed;


Rev 7:6   of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand [were] sealed; of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand [were] sealed; of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand [were] sealed;


Rev 7:7   of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand [were] sealed; of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand [were] sealed; of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand [were] sealed;


Rev 7:8   of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand [were] sealed; of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand [were] sealed; of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand [were] sealed.

This group cannot be the Church, for the Church is already in heaven(chapter 4:1). Also, the Church is not Jewish, but is composed of all races, peoples and tongues. Again, this group does not picture the Seventh Day Adventists or the Jehovah's Witnesses. Both have claimed this in their theological writings. The Seventh Day Adventists say that the 144,000 are not Englishmen or Americans either, as the advocates of British Israelism teach. They make the Israelites forerunners of the Anglo-Saxons. Come on now, Armstrongites and Garner Ted. Surely you cannot be that foolish! These are Jewish tribes with Jewish names. Do the names Juda, Reuben, Gad, Aser, Nepthalim, Manasses, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zabulon, Joseph and Benjamin sound British? You had better allow Jews with Jewish names to head up Jewish tribes in a Jewish nation-Israel.

Presently the Jews are not sure of their tribal heritage. However, the omniscient, all-knowing God will untangle this condition at the appointed time. Actually, no one today really knows what his stock is. As a result of migrations, most people are a hodgepodge of differing nationalities.

The 144,000 Jewish evangelists are anointed by the Spirit. Joel 2:28,29 describes the situation as these Spirit-filled preachers proclaim the gospel of the kingdom. "And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on [My] menservants and on [My] maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

There is a great deal of confusion concerning the presence of the Holy Spirit during the Tribulation hour. This has resulted from a faulty understanding and interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 2:7: For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains(letteth) [will do so] until He is taken out of the way. The term letteth is the old english word for hinders. The picture being painted here is the rise of the Antichrist. 2 Thess 2:6 states: And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. Then verse 7 makes it clear that the Hinderer -the Holy Spirit- continues to to hinder the Antichrist's rise until He -the Holy Spirit- is taken out of the way.

Here is another reason millions believe in the pre-Tribulation Rapture. The Hinderer lives in the heart of His people: Now if anyone does not have the Spirit
of Christ, he is not His.
(Romans 8:9). Also, 1 Cor 3:16: Do you not know that you are the temple of God and [that] the Spirit of God dwells in you?
Because of this truth, God's Spirit cannot be taken unless those in whom he lives are taken. One should note, however, that the Spirit's removal only speaks of His restraining power.

The Holy Spirit is God, the 3rd member of the Trinity. As God, He is omniscient(all knowing), omnipotent(all powerful), omnipresent(everywhere at all times). Therefore, the Holy Spirit cannot be removed from the earth because He, as God is in all places constantly. David says in Psalm 139:7-10  Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You [are] there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You [are there]. [If] I take the wings of the morning, [And] dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, Even there Your hand shall lead me, And Your right hand shall hold me. Since the Holy Spirit is everywhere at all times, only His restraining influence over sin is removed during the Tribulation hour.

Presently Christians are the salt of the earth and the light of the world(Matt 5:13-16). The evacuation of Christians, in whose hearts the Holy Spirit lives, is the way, the only way, His restraining influence on sin is removed, ridding the world of salt and light. Christians are God's preservative forces, as well as the dispellers of darkness. Imagine what happens when the Spirit's restraining influence(the Church) is removed via the Rapture. Quite literally, all hell will break loose upon earth. Still, even during this time, His continuing personal presence on earth produces one of the greatest revivals in the history of mankind.

The message of the 144,000 centres on the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ. This was the emphasis of the Old Testament preachers: "To Him[Jesus] all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins."(Acts 10:43).

In addition to preaching the message of the shed blood of Jesus, the 144,00 proclaim the advent of the King: Mat 24:14   "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. This is not the message of His 1st coming - the Rapture(chapter 4:1) but the Revelation or revealing of Christ as King(chapter 19:16).

In order to get a picture of the complete message the kingdom messengers proclaim, you must study the life of John the Baptist. John's message was: (1) Repentance: He said, Mat 3:2 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"; (2) the blood: again, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!(John 1:29). This message of repentance and the blood was to prepare the hearts of the people for the 3rd part of His message - the coming of the King. Though Christ was rejected in the days of John the Baptist, He will be accepted when the 144,000 Jews preach the identical message.

At this time a worldwide revival ensues, of one of the elders asks, Rev 7:13,14 "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Rev 7:9   After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

John states: After this. After what? After the 144,000 Jewish evangelists are sealed by the Spirit of God. God's message is always to the Jew first, then to the Gentile. That's why Romans 1:16 declares, For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Since the Jews have heard, John sees a great multitude standing before the throne which no man could count, from every race and nationality. Their white robes prove that they have trusted in the message of the blood and are clothed in the righteousness of Christ. The waving of the palms in their hands signifies victory. They have overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil. They are joyous because they have survived the 1st 6 seals of judgement and their joy leads to praise.

Rev 7:10   and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation [belongs] to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"

This multitude recognizes the source of their salvation and victory. They cannot be kept silent. Who can be silent when the grace of God does it's mighty work of salvation in one's heart? Immediately the angels join with them in praise to the Father and to the Son.

Rev 7:11   All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,

Rev 7:12   saying: "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, Thanksgiving and honor and power and might, [Be] to our God forever and ever. Amen."

What a glorious scene as the angels surrounding the throne and God's people(represented by the elders) fall on their faces in worship, praise, and adoration!

Their sevenfold praise session to God centers around: (1) blessing, (2) glory, (3) wisdom, (4) thanksgiving, (5) honour, (6) power, (7) might.... forever and forever! No wonder they say, "Amen!" Then one of the elders asks a question.

Rev 7:13   Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"

The answer?

Rev 7:14   And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

This is another proof that the Church is in heaven, not upon earth. Why? John does not recognize this group. He knows the Raptured Church in heaven(chapter 4:1), but not the ones on earth in this text. These are Tribulation saints who have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Please hear God once again: These are they which came out of great Tribulation. That settles it and explains why John - who recognized the Church in heaven - is in a fog concerning these individuals. They are new brothers and sisters in Christ, though unknown to John. They have been saved in a different period of time - a time when he and the Church were in heaven. The Church was not on earth to make her acquaintance.

The next scene is exciting. Each group saved during different dispensations of time has different duties to perform. The Church is the bride of Christ and enjoys the 1000 year honeymoon upon earth(chapter 20:4). They reign as rulers, kings, and priests(1 Peter 2:9 and Rev 1:6). The 144,000 serve as bodyguards of the Lamb and His bride(chapter 14:4). The Gentiles saved during the Tribulation will be Temple servants, waiting on Christ and His bride. They serve in the glorious Temple(described in Ezekiel chapters 40-48) which is set up immediately after Russia - under the names of Gog, Magog, Meshech, Tubal, and Rosh - is destroyed(Ezekiel 38-39). Everything is so near. Russia could march soon, then Antichrist would be smashed and the Lord would return with His bride. At that time the millennial Temple is erected and the Gentiles serve.

Rev 7:15   "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.

Because God is dwelling among them, the deprivations they suffered under the Antichrist are now abolished. Under the reign of the world dictator, there was little food and one had to take the mark of the beast, 666, to obtain sustenance. These believers who refused the number had to eke out an existence day by day. Now, with the Lord in their midst, the picture changes.

Rev 7:16   "They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat;

This refers to the scorching effects of the sun during the Tribulation hour: Rev 16:8   Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. In addition, the word heat refers to the fires of persecution as described in 1 Peter 1:7. Such trials are finished forever.

From this point onward the people of God from all dispensations enjoy the presence of God. Their days of suffering, heartache, and abuse by an ungodly world are finished. Tears are wiped away as every remembrance of past sorrow is obliterated from their minds.

Rev 7:17   "for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

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Quote from: afaithfulone4u
We must bring as many unbelieving Jews into the body of Christ as we can so that they will not have to go through the last half of the GREAT TRIBULATION to be marty'red.

Why on earth is that?

The 144,000 are specific people WHO ARE ALREADY TO BE BORN AGAIN MEN that God is setting aside for a purpose, which is to evangelize Israel during the Tribulation. How do you think the prophecy that ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED will come about otherwise?

Did you not know that martyrdom is also a spiritual gift? Leave their destiny to God! Evangelize the Jew, but my advice to you is to get out of eschatological matters. They confuse you and then you turn around and confuse others.


Offline n2thelight

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First there is no rapture,we simply gather back to Christ

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

The next five verses lay the foundation to what is called the "rapture theory". That is all it is, is a theory; and unproven idea. As we study our Father's Word; set aside all preconceived ideas you have about a rapture, and let's see what Paul is trying to tell the Thessalonians.

It is from these verses that the "rapture theory" was born. Let's see just how willing you are to bet your soul on it, when we take a fresh look at what Paul really said. Because that is what you are doing when you rely on it in the last days.

After Paul told the Thessalonians to live right in the community, and search their souls for sin in their lives, they were then to repent of any sin. Paul moved next to what happens when death comes to this flesh body. This topic is important to Paul, for it is the stabilizing factor to the Christian life. It removes the fear that comes from the unknown of ones death. Paul gives this information for one reason, and that is, that we not be ignorant as the heathen are. In other words, Paul doesn't want Christians stupid.

This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

Regardless what chapter nine of Ecclesiastes says concerning the flesh body; when this flesh body is dead, the soul is gone from it, and the flesh is left to rot. It is difficult to see how they made a "rapture theory" out of this, when the subject is, "where are the dead?" So we see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with our Heavenly Father. If you believe this, you are not heathen.

I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written.

"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground.

Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies.

Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.

To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".

Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body.

Why?

Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him.

I Corinthians 15:53, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

"Mortal" means "liable to die" in the Greek. At the last trump the Christians who stand against Satan, and his system, will have their immortality, however, those who fall for Antichrist and his system, will have to wait until after the 1000 years. "Corruptible into incorruption" is refering to the flesh body changing into the body such as the angels have, a spiritual body. Whereas the eternal condition of the soul is only extended to those who have not yielded to the Antichrist, For they only are the victors at the seventh trump. You put on immortality through Christ who set the way.

I Corinthians 15:54, "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

Going back to I Thessalonians 4:15, we know when this will come to pass. It will be "at the last trump", when the alive in Christ are "changed", not flying away.

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

The Lord is going to descend, at the seventh trump [the last trump]. Why will the dead in Christ rise first? Because they are already there, and with Him. All we have to do now is go to the book of Revelation, and find out in detail when this will be. We find out what events will occur just prior to this seventh trump sounding, and then when we see these certain events taking place before our eyes, we will know our Lord will return to earth next. Then the trump will sound, and the gathering will take place, and we will be changed from our flesh bodies to our spiritual bodies. And not one day before.

Many people have images of massive numbers of people flying away, with all sorts of accidents taking place; however, the Bible doesn't tell us it will be in that manner. In Revelation 11, it tells us exactly three and a half days prior what will happen, and the whole world will know about it, for it is no hidden mystery. That is when the Antichrist will end his reign by killing God's two witnesses, and send the world into a three and a half day party of celebration.

In Revelation 11 the world will know the two witnesses, for the disruption they have caused, and the world will watch as they are killed, and their dead bodies are put on display in a wide street [arena]. Are you still looking for a rapture, well my friend, at the end of the three and half day period it will be a time of great shame for you, For as Revelation 9:4 points out, the truth will not be sealed in your mind, and God is going to turn you over to Antichrist. The "rapture theory", could be the death warrant of your very soul, or a commitment of your soul to great shame. If you believe in the "Rapture theory" you will be on the side of Antichrist, and will fly with anyone, because you just don't understand the Word of God.

Remember, Two bodies will be in the streets of Jerusalem for three days, causing a world wide massive party...that is your warning just before Jesus Christ return to this earth. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

I Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Revelation 11:9; "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."

They simple do not want these bodies to come alive, or claim life when they in fact are dead. The world is witness to the corps of the two bodies. And they will think of all the damage these two prophets did to their crops and property; and most of all, the insults the witnesses gave this first Christ {Antichrist}, whom they all believed to be Jesus. Antichrist did as their rapture theory promised it would do. They got their wing's all right, straight to Satan's camp.

Revelation 11:10; "And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth."

The torment the two gave the world was naming the Antichrist, Satan. This was unthinkable, for their traditions taught them otherwise.

Revelation 11:11; "And after three and an half [days] the spirit [breath] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them."

Did you catch the time frame here? It's three and a half days following the death of two witnesses that the world will rejoice over their death.

When the whole world celebrates, you better be getting ready to meet your maker. Friend, the only flying out of here is by the two witnesses, and it is recorded here. God's elect will be changed here at this time.

Revelation 11:12; "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them [two witnesses], Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

There is no secret to this rapture, of two, for who are their enemies? Those who were against God's two witnesses.

Revelation 11:13; "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

This is Satan, and his fallen angels [that locust army of Revelation 9] that were caste out with him.

The remnent who gave God the glory, are God's elect, and those who are sealed of God, including the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel. Those are the ones chosen to stand against the Antichrist, and only them. The traditions of men will be preached right up to the seventh trump. What happens then at the seventh trump? Well, that is what First Thessalonians 4 is all about. "The gathering back to Christ at the seventh trumpet".

Revelation 11:14-15; "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly." [verse 14] "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The Kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." [verse 15] THIS IS THE SEVENTH TRUMP.

You, as a Christian now know exactly what is to transpire for three and a half days prior to the sounding of the seventh trump. You will see the murder of the two witnesses, observe the massive celebration, and then be changed to another form before Christ returns to this earth. It's all in God's holy plan, and Paul, John, Peter, Mark, Luke as well as Jesus certainly do not want you ignorant of these facts.

There is no FLY AWAY, no dodging of the tribulation of the Antichrist and his system's deceptions, but Christ will come and establish His kingdom on earth, and you will see it in your spiritual body. Got it?


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Offline n2thelight

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Revelation 7:1 "And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

This is what we must know before the "Day of the Lord". This prophecy has to do with events on the earth, and not in heaven.

These "four winds" are the "four spirits". These four winds are what marks the end of this earth age. They are four winds that come from all directions and focus on one point. Thus it will be "by nature and natural causes" the end will come to pass, in a spiritual sense. This is also discussed in Ezekiel 37, and Daniel 7.

Revelation 7:2 "And I saw another angel ascending from the east [sun rising], having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea."

The angel from the east is the angel from God. You have heard of the Seal, or the "Mark of the Beast"; well, this angel is bringing the seal, or "mark of God." This seal from the angel is "Knowledge". It is sealed, or stored in your mind, which is in your forehead. No physical part of this earth, or oceans will be hurt.

The subject here is the sealing of God's elect; placing knowledge of everything that is to happen in the minds of God's elect and all those overcomers, so there will be no mystery in these events to them. When we know exactly what is to take place, Satan will not be inviting; for upon his arrival, we will know him for the cheap imitation he is, in relation to our Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 7:3 "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

This is what the angel from the east [God] said to the spirits of the four winds. The purpose here is to save the earth, the trees and vegetation, also the water and everything else, until God's elect are sealed. Until God's elect, each and every one of them completely understand the events that will take place before the seventh trumpet sounds, and Our Lord Jesus Christ returns.

That seal is knowledge in the minds of the elect, placed their by the seeds of God's Word. God's Word must placed there through your studying and learning what the Holy Spirit of God reveals to you. It's time for God's elect to stop chasing shadows, and study to know God's plan for the elect, and also what He has in store for the devil [Antichrist] and his world system. We are to be a part of God's plan, but not Satan's system.

Revelation 7:4 "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Is'-ra-el."

This seal has nothing to do with going to heaven; but it is the full knowledge of How to stand against the wiles of Satan the Antichrist. This has to take place before the "son of perdition" [Satan] sets his feet on this earth as the Antichrist. You will know how to identify Satan, from the true Christ, or you will be deceived by the Antichrist and become part of his system. Satan is that good, and the Word of God declares it before the fact.

This sealing will be marked in the minds of God's elect in all the tribes of Israel. If you believe this is referring only to the Jews, then you are far off base. The "House of Israel" comprise ten of the twelve tribes, and they were scattered long ago. We know them today as the Christian nations of the Americas, Western Europe, and wherever else they migrated to, and now exist. The book of Hosea details this fact for us.

Revelation 14:1 "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Si'-on, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."

This "Lamb" is Jesus Christ. Christ has returned at this time, and is standing on Mount Sion with his saints. Earilier we saw one "that looked like a Lamb", yet spoke like a dragon, and he was Satan. So Christ has returned here, and is with the 144,000 sealed, of Chapter seven. Remember that the 144,000 sealed of the tribes never went anywhere, but remained here on earth during the entire time of the Antichrist. Not one of these saints yielded to Satan, nor took his name, nor his number. They did not take the "Mark of the Beast" because they had "their Fathers name in their foreheads". They knew how to identify Satan, and that the first Messiah was the fake.

That marking was placed in their minds back in chapter seven, when God told the "four Spirits of God" to hold their position, until this group could be sealed. Then they were allowed to open the seals. That sealing is in the process today, and many are seeing and understanding the truth of God's Word, as events are going on before our eyes daily.



« Last Edit: Sun Dec 02, 2012 - 01:31:01 by n2thelight »

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Offline Trumpeter

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n2tl - First there is no rapture,we simply gather back to Christ

Chapter 4 begins the prophetical future. Remember chapter 1:19: "Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this. That text presented 3 tenses and informed us that the Book of Revelation is written in chronological order: the past - chapter 1; the present - chapters 2 and 3 (the history of the 7 churches to the present time); and the future - chapters 4 - 22.

Rev 4:1   After these things I looked, and behold, a door [standing] open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard [was] like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this."

John states, "After these things". After what? After the completion of the history of the 7 churches. After this John sees a door open in heaven and hears a trumpet-like voice loudly and victoriously crying, Come up here. This is the rapture of the Church of Jesus Christ. When it occurs, multitudes from all kindreds, people, tongues, and denominations will meet the Saviour face to face.

What is the Rapture? It is the literal, visible bodily coming of Jesus Christ to call out of this world, literally and bodily, every born-again believer - first the dead ,  then the living.  First we see that Jesus is coming bodily. Remember the cultists of bygone days who said that the Lord was about to return? Clothed in white sheets, they sat on the mountainsides in anxious anticipation - but Christ didn't come. Date-setting is wrong! Mat 24:36   "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

Because of their embarrassment, these cultists immediately stated, "Oh, we were right; Christ did come, but it was an invisible manifestation. He came as a spirit." Not so! When Jesus Christ returns, both in the Rapture(chapter 4) and at his Revelation(chapter 19), He will come literally, visibly, and bodily. Proof? Acts 1:9-11: Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,
who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This [same] Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." The Lord will return exactly as he left.

How did He leave? In Luke 24:39, Christ appeared to his disciples and said,"Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." Then in verses 41-42, He went on to say - But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, "Have you any food here?"
So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb.
And He took [it] and ate in their presence. The Lord Jesus Christ possessed a new resurrected body - a body that could be seen, a body that could be touched, and a body that could partake of food = a literal body!

1Cr 15:3-8   For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve.
After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.
After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles.
Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.


No doubt about it, when He returns and the shout, Come up here, is given, we will see Him. At this glorious moment, we, too, shall receive new bodies. The Bible teaches in 1 Thess 4:16-17: For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.


Notice that the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then all of us together are caught up into the heavenlies to meet the Lord Jesus Christ in the twinkling of an eye. 1Cr 15:51-54   Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." How fast is the twinkling of the eye? GE company tells us that the twinkling of the eye is 11/100th of a second.

Just that quickly, at that blessed moment, we shall be changed to be like Jesus. David said, I shall be satisfied when I awake with thy likeness(Psalm 17:15). John adds that when we see Jesus, we shall be like him; for we shall see Him as He is(1 John 3:2) Then Paul under the direction of the Holy Spirit, states: who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.(Phil 3:21) This, then, is the Rapture.

Some Christians say they do not believe in the term Rapture. They argue that they cannot find the term rapture in the Bible. Interestingly, one cannot find the term Bible in the Bible either, but I'm holding one! Listen carefully: the word rapture, in English, comes from the Latin, rapio, rapere or raptus, which means "a snatching away." We have just learned from God's Word that all Christians, living and dead, are going to be snatched away in the twinkling of an eye, so whether one knows it or not, one believes in the Rapture.

The Bible also clearly teaches that there is a difference between the Rapture and the Revelation of Christ. We need to fully understand this truth because it is the basis for understanding the book of Revelation, prophetical truth, and the placement of signs. Simply stated, there are two aspects, or stages, in the process of Christ's second coming, and both begin with the letter "r". We have already designated the first phase as the Rapture. The second phase is called the Revelation. Chapter 4 describes phase 1, while phase 2 is described in chapter 19. The intervening chapters – six through 18 – basically cover a seven year period called the tribulation. The Rapture (chapter 4) precedes the tribulation, and the Revelation (chapter 19) follows the seven year period of judgment. Chapter 4 is a meeting in the air, whereas chapter 19 is a return to the earth. Chapter 4 removes a believer from the judgments described in chapter 6 through 18, and chapter 19 restores a believer to his earthly sojourn as he returns with Christ to planet earth. The come up here of Revelation 4:1 is synonymous with the call of 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17: for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the Archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Immediately following this event, the inhabitants of planet Earth experience seven years of incomparable judgment. This judgment ends with the Battle of Armageddon, at which time the door of Heaven is again opened (see Chapter 19, versus 11 through 16) in order that the believer may exit heaven with Christ for the return trip to earth.

This return of Christ with his saints is called the Revelation, and comes from the word revealing. At that time the Lord will reveal himself to all humanity, So why not call this event the revealing, or revelation, of Christ? Let's not quibble about the labels concerning the Rapture and the Revelation. The truths are there; believe them! The labels only help one organize the teaching systematically.

The question often arises, "Will the church of Jesus Christ be on earth during the tribulation hour?" The answer is an emphatic, "NO!" The Church is mentioned 16 times in the first three chapters of the Book of Revelation, but is not found in chapters 6-18 - the Tribulation period. Why?

First of all, the Tribulation is Israel's time of suffering. Alas! for that day is great so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it (Jeremiah 30:7) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [Israel]: and there should be a time of trouble, such as ever was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people [Israelites] shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book. (Daniel 12:1)

Secondly, the first 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy involved Israel. Why wouldn't the 70th week? The Bible is plain: 70 weeks are determined upon thy people [Israelites] upon thy holy city [Jerusalem] (Daniel 9:24). That is why the signs in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 17 and 21 have to do with Israel and the Middle East.

Thirdly, during the tribulation hour, the people involved are instructed to pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day(Matthew 24:20). Israel is eternally identified with this Sabbath day (see Ezekiel 20:12, 20).

 Fourthly, when Christ returns to Jerusalem (see Zachariah 14:4), all the tribes of the earth mourn (see Matthew 24:30). The mourners are the 12 tribes of Israel, numbering hundreds of thousands of individuals who were brought to repentance by the preaching of the 144,000 Jewish representatives from each of the 12 tribes (12,000 per tribe).

Finally, the persons experiencing the woes of the Tribulation Hour are never called "a synagogue", but rather the church (Acts 2:47).

As already stated, the church cannot be found in Revelation 6 through 18, the portion of the book describing the horrible Tribulation hour. Israel, however, as seen in the midst of the Holocaust (see Revelation 12:1 – 13). This correlates with the elect of Matthew 24:22. Jesus said, and except those days be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened. This elect group is not the Church but Israel, for God has 2 elect groups upon Earth – the Church and Israel. First, let's look at the Church. According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love (Ephesians 1:4). This chosen group is called the elect in 1 Peter 1:2. However, the Church, the bride of Christ, elected to be His sweetheart and wife for all eternity, is not in view in Matthew 24:22. Instead, this text has Israel, the wife of Jehovah, in mind. What? How can that be? Where was Israel chosen? In Genesis 12:2,3 God said, And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great and thou shall be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

In Deuteronomy 7:7 and eight, the Israelites were again reminded of their elect status: The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because you were more number than any people; for you where the fewest of all people: But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn on to your fathers.... [He chose you]. This oath chooses Israel as an elect of people has never been abrogated: for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance – or without change of mind(Rom 11:29), because of God's unchanging covenant or oath, Romans 11:26 – 28 declares, And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, there shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from jacob: for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins... as touching the election (the elect), they are beloved for the father's sakes.

When God chose Israel as his elect wife, he chose her forever because the calling of God is without change of mind. Though Jehovah's spouse has often committed spiritual adultery by turning to iniquity and idolatry, still Jehovah loves her because God abides faithful. There is no doubt about it, Israel is the elect group mentioned in the Gospels for whom the days of judgment will be shortened. Israelites are the ones who will pray that their flight for safety will not be on the Sabbath(their day of worship); who will suffer persecution in their own synagogues (only Jews meet in synagogues); and who have the name of Jacob, and who will experience Jacob's time of trouble (see Jeremiah 30:7), for Jacob is Israel (see Romans 11:26).

Hence, a period of 70 weeks is determined upon Israel (see Daniel 9:24). The nation of Israel has seen Jerusalem compassed about with Armies (Luke 21:20), and will again observe the armies of the world posed against Jerusalem for the final war as God gathers all nations against Jerusalem to battle (Zachariah 14:2). This definitely is not the Church. All Christians slipped out through the open door in the fourth chapter before the judgments of heaven and earth began to be unleashed in the sixth chapter. They were evacuated when the shout come up here was given.

There are those who say that Revelation 4:1 is an exclusive picture of John the Beloved in a vision, being caught away in the presence of God. Therefore, they reason, this has nothing to do with anyone else, including the Church. This argument is fallacious because Chapter 4, verse 10 states: the 24 elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne. When will believers be crowned? immediately after the rapture. Proof: Thou shall be recompensed [rewarded] at the resurrection of the just (Luke 14:14). Again: and when the chief Shepherd shall appear [His coming], you shall receive a crown of glory (1 Peter 5:4). Obviously, the judgment seat of Christ must take place before believers are crowned. Then they lay up these crowns at Christ's feet, in versus 10 and 11, meaning they are already in His presence. The only way they could have gotten there is through the come up here verse 1. We must also remember that John, the representative of all God's people, is showing the things which must be hereafter things that will happen, both in heaven and on earth. Chapters 4 and 5 picture that which takes place in heaven, while chapter 6 through 18 picture that which occurs on earth - the Tribulation.

Offline WILDJC

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My head is ready to explode.

I put my trust in the Lord. Whatever and whenever He decides to end it all is fine by me.

Praise God.

John

Offline Makewecasa

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My head is ready to explode.

I put my trust in the Lord. Whatever and whenever He decides to end it all is fine by me.

Praise God.

John

 ::amen!:: and  ::amen!::

Offline chosenone

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My head is ready to explode.

I put my trust in the Lord. Whatever and whenever He decides to end it all is fine by me.

Praise God.

John

I so agree. I cant even be bothered to read it all. All we need to do is to trust God. He has it all in hand.



Proverbs 3:5-6
Amplified Bible (AMP)
5 Lean on, trust in, and be confident in the Lord with all your heart and mind and do not rely on your own insight or understanding.
6 In all your ways know, recognize, and acknowledge Him, and He will direct and make straight and plain your paths.



Offline MeMyself

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My head is ready to explode.

I put my trust in the Lord. Whatever and whenever He decides to end it all is fine by me.

Praise God.

John

I so agree. I cant even be bothered to read it all. All we need to do is to trust God. He has it all in hand.



Proverbs 3:5-6
Amplified Bible (AMP)
5 Lean on, trust in, and be confident in the Lord with all your heart and mind and do not rely on your own insight or understanding.
6 In all your ways know, recognize, and acknowledge Him, and He will direct and make straight and plain your paths.




amen to you both!

Offline Trumpeter

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Quote from: chosenone on Today at 12:42:28 PM
Quote from: WILDJC on Today at 12:10:55 PM
My head is ready to explode.

I put my trust in the Lord. Whatever and whenever He decides to end it all is fine by me.

Praise God.

John

I so agree. I cant even be bothered to read it all. All we need to do is to trust God. He has it all in hand.



Proverbs 3:5-6
Amplified Bible (AMP)
5 Lean on, trust in, and be confident in the Lord with all your heart and mind and do not rely on your own insight or understanding.
6 In all your ways know, recognize, and acknowledge Him, and He will direct and make straight and plain your paths.




amen to you both!

1Cr 14:20   Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.

Offline MeMyself

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Quote from: chosenone on Today at 12:42:28 PM
Quote from: WILDJC on Today at 12:10:55 PM
My head is ready to explode.

I put my trust in the Lord. Whatever and whenever He decides to end it all is fine by me.

Praise God.

John

I so agree. I cant even be bothered to read it all. All we need to do is to trust God. He has it all in hand.



Proverbs 3:5-6
Amplified Bible (AMP)
5 Lean on, trust in, and be confident in the Lord with all your heart and mind and do not rely on your own insight or understanding.
6 In all your ways know, recognize, and acknowledge Him, and He will direct and make straight and plain your paths.




amen to you both!

1Cr 14:20   Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.

how rude!  Just because we don't want to quibble over this topic and are content to trust God in the end does not mean this verse should be used against us like this! ::frown::

makes me think of the verse that warns us to not think more highly of ourselves than we ought.
Or the one that says "Do not be excessively righteous and do not be overly wise. Why should you ruin yourself?"
 ::eatingpopcorn:

Offline Trumpeter

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Mms - How rude
How rude???
How rude to call the word of God rude.

Offline MeMyself

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Mms - How rude
How rude???
How rude to call the word of God rude.

Nope. Again..its your choice to try and use the word as a tool of shame and hiding behind it to call others names.  THAT is rude!

Offline hammer123

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These are 144,00 male, virgin Israelites.

Offline FireSword

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These are 144,00 male, virgin Israelites.

You've got it this time  ::smile::

Offline hammer123

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These are 144,00 male, virgin Israelites.

You've got it this time  ::smile::

Communication would be so much easier if people could read minds

Offline Star of David

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have been sealed from the harm to come upon the earth?
Why does Paul say WE who REMAIN alive spiritually alive, shall be caught up?

How is it that before now, NONE in the past were made holy  to be in the 144,000 out of all the 2,000 yrs since the Holy Spirit was given?
Could it be that it took a grace period to perfect our souls.
1 Thess 4:15-17

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV
2 Cor 12:2

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
KJV

Rev 12:5-6

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule(RULE AND REIGN WITH CHRIST) all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.KJV
Mid tribulation 3-1/2yrs will the rest of the churches offspring who were not worthy to go will go to a place prepard by God along with the Jews who after the eartquake will go through Jacobs troubles once Satan is throne down to earth and the son's caught up.

We must bring as many unbelieving Jews into the body of Christ as we can so that they will not have to go through the last half of the GREAT TRIBULATION to be marty'red.


I am quite sure that there will never be this 144,000 witnesses spoken of in the Book of Revelation.



Offline Bro Sam

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Who and where are they:                 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Rev 14:1-5 (KJV)                                They are the first fruits - not the last fruits.  They were redeemed from among men and are with Jesus.

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They are the first fruits - not the last fruits.  They were redeemed from among men and are with Jesus.

Not yet.

Offline FireSword

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These are 144,00 male, virgin Israelites.

You've got it this time  ::smile::

Communication would be so much easier if people could read minds

You said on another thread 14,000 male, virgin Jews.




Offline Bro Sam

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They are the first fruits - not the last fruits.  They were redeemed from among men and are with Jesus.

Not yet.
   

Read this: it says they are the first fruits and tells all about them. It's an easy read. Forget the RCC false prophecy of the 7 yr trib; there is not such thing.    Read below for what it says and believe it.

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Rev 14:1-5 (KJV)

Lively Stone

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They are the first fruits - not the last fruits.  They were redeemed from among men and are with Jesus.

Not yet.
   

Read this: it says they are the first fruits and tells all about them. It's an easy read. Forget the RCC false prophecy of the 7 yr trib; there is not such thing.    Read below for what it says and believe it.

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Rev 14:1-5 (KJV)

Each year at the beginning of the literal harvest the children of Israel would select some of the first grain or fruit to ripen and offer it to the Lord. This was called the first fruits of the harvest. The rest of the field could not be harvested until the first fruits had been presented to the Lord. The 144,000 are the first fruits of the spiritual harvest that will bring people into the kingdom of God. Now that they have been offered to the Lord the rest of the world can be harvested. The 144,000 give the three angel’s messages to the rest of the world. As people respond by worshiping God they are harvested into His kingdom.

This has yet to occur. Don't rush God.

Offline hammer123

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These are 144,00 male, virgin Israelites.

You've got it this time  ::smile::

Communication would be so much easier if people could read minds

You said on another thread 14,000 male, virgin Jews.

I said that but I meant Israelites.

Offline Bro Sam

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That's per 7 yr trib thinking.    There is no 7 yr trib as you cannot separate the 70th week of Daniel's prophesy.   

Seventy weeks are determined and sealed to anoint the most Holy.     The false prophet RCC created the 7 yr trib doctrine. toss it.

Offline Covenanter

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Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Remember the opening verses of Rev - it's written to its FIRST readers - John's companions in tribulation. We also need to keep in view Jesus' Olivet prophecy of judgement on this generation. He gives the Jerusalem Christians clear signs to know when to flee the city.

In that context, the 144,000 are sealed & protected before the four angels release the winds of judgment. These 144,000 are first-fruits, i.e. the first Jewish believers, & they are the believers protected & delivered before the destruction. There is no need to think of "undefiled virgins" as being celibate - marriage does not defile. 

Offline Bro Sam

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Per scripture; these are the first fruits.  There were ~2mm people for Passover in Jerusalem when Jesus resurrected with the 500 saints. 

REV 14 says who they were, when they were and where they are now.

Lehigh

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They are the first fruits - not the last fruits.  They were redeemed from among men and are with Jesus.

Not yet.
   

Read this: it says they are the first fruits and tells all about them. It's an easy read. Forget the RCC false prophecy of the 7 yr trib; there is not such thing.    Read below for what it says and believe it.

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Rev 14:1-5 (KJV)

Whoa, that just knocked out that "not yet" answer. Praise God!  Can you  imagine "not yet?

I've heard Catholics speak of purgatory as a waiting/purging place- (I don't know about that. ::pondering::)
 But that's not the issue here.
One thing is for sure, God doesn't wait and gather our flesh at some end of the world, in order to clothe us with a spiritual body in heaven , if we are worthy enough to get there when we pass away.

Before AD70, no one went to heaven They were sequestered in Hades. But the dead were resurrected out of Hades and went to be with the Lord ever since. This is what happens today, we go directly to heaven

New Jerusalem

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have been sealed from the harm to come upon the earth?
Why does Paul say WE who REMAIN alive spiritually alive, shall be caught up?

How is it that before now, NONE in the past were made holy  to be in the 144,000 out of all the 2,000 yrs since the Holy Spirit was given?
Could it be that it took a grace period to perfect our souls.
1 Thess 4:15-17

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV
2 Cor 12:2

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
KJV

Rev 12:5-6

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule(RULE AND REIGN WITH CHRIST) all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.KJV
Mid tribulation 3-1/2yrs will the rest of the churches offspring who were not worthy to go will go to a place prepard by God along with the Jews who after the eartquake will go through Jacobs troubles once Satan is throne down to earth and the son's caught up.

We must bring as many unbelieving Jews into the body of Christ as we can so that they will not have to go through the last half of the GREAT TRIBULATION to be marty'red.


Read the miracle that Jesus did at the wedding where He turned water into wine.

The governor of the wedding said to the bridegroom you left the good wine until last.

Now Jesus said to saint Mary that it was not His time, so if we take this wedding as The Wedding of the Lamb of God and the governor of the Wedding as God the Father, then this good wine represents his 144,000. These are likened to the first fruit of the harvest (like the Old testament prophets) because they are the last men standing in a God forsaken destroyed planet, standing and carrying their Father's name until the last moment before Christ comes to cut the days short and rescue them.

Read Joel 2 it talks about those 144,000.


Offline Bro Sam

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1, 2, 3, read:

 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Rev 14:2-4 (KJV)

Wow; who would believe that - I do.

Offline John 8:32

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My head is ready to explode.

I put my trust in the Lord. Whatever and whenever He decides to end it all is fine by me.

Praise God.

John

I so agree. I cant even be bothered to read it all. All we need to do is to trust God. He has it all in hand.



Proverbs 3:5-6
Amplified Bible (AMP)
5 Lean on, trust in, and be confident in the Lord with all your heart and mind and do not rely on your own insight or understanding.
6 In all your ways know, recognize, and acknowledge Him, and He will direct and make straight and plain your paths.



You may want to know enough to know who is preaching truth and who is a great deceiver...

Mat 24:4  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Many will come in Christ's name saying that Jesus is the Christ and deceive many.

Mat 24:23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25  Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

It might be worth your while to extract your head from the sand and gain some knowledge about who is speaking truth.

Offline Covenanter

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Quote
Many will come in Christ's name saying that Jesus is the Christ and deceive many.
I hope you did not mean that  ???

Or perhaps you ARE referring to the various false Christian sects who teach that Jesus is Christ but add their own distinctive & erroneous doctrine.
(RCC, JW, Mormon, Zionist, etc)