GCM Home | Bible Search | Rules | Donate | Bookstore | RSS | Facebook | Twitter

Author Topic: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?  (Read 8392 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Corbley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1438
  • Manna: 58
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« on: October 12, 2009, 02:07:29 AM »
As your reading Rev 18 below...Picture America as its focus...This could very likely be America

Revelation 18
   1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

   2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

   3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

   4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

   5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

   6Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

   7How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

   8Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

   9And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

   10Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

   11And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

   12The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

   13And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

   14And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

   15The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

   16And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

   17For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

   18And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

   19And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

   20Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

   21And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

   22And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

   23And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

   24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Christian Forums and Message Board

Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« on: October 12, 2009, 02:07:29 AM »

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2009, 02:29:14 AM »

Dear Brother Corbley, who in your opinion does Revelation Chapters seventeen and eighteen describe to you? Who is the woman carried by the seven heads, and who are the people of God admonished to come out of her in Revelation 18:4 lest they partake of her plagues? I certainly do not think America is the nation described there.

Thank you in Jesus' name.

« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 11:49:40 AM by larry2 »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2009, 02:29:14 AM »

Offline Corbley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1438
  • Manna: 58
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2009, 08:20:25 AM »
America is a sinful nation....It very closely describes America and the trade that America does with nations.

American $$ are traded worldwide (which is close to ending) As China calls for a new cash reserve.
Verse 11 I think speaks of this event

Offline rezar

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
  • Manna: 77
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2009, 10:07:25 AM »
by Corbley,
Quote

As your reading Rev 18 below...Picture America as its focus.

Therein lies your problem. You're causing in your mind a "self-fulfilling" prophesy. Any major dudette would tell you so.

"Mystery Babylon, the Mother of harlots" is a prophetic statement. It's not a political statement (which btw, yours should be asked under politics- & not the Bible) It's about Covenants!

The harlot in Rev. is 1st century Jerusalem. Do you remember Jesus telling Israel that all the blood from Abel to Zach. was going to fall on that wicked generation- & the apostles wouldn't finish evangelizing even in Jerusalem before the Son of man would come?

OK. The "woman" rides the beast in Rev.17. Most of the time God calls Israel a "she."

Oh, & the kingdom of God is not about $$ either. We see the riches of Jerusalem & the temple furnishings in Rev.18. Jerusalem was rich & the foreign trade in Jerusalem- food supplies, precious metals, luxury goods. Trade from Moab, Hebron, Sharon, Lyddia, Arabia, & other regions.  IOWs, the participation of Jews in Mediterranean trade is well attested. Costly materials for the temple, etc. Herod built the port-city of Caesarea. He built an artificial seaport.

The symbolism of the woman riding the beast is Israel riding Rome. Israel had her own kings even though she was a puppet nation under Roman rule.
All that changed when the woman rebelled against the beast (Israel against Rome).
And the more powerful nation(Rome) turned on the woman & utterly burned her with fire.
Precisely why "Rome" is not the harlot- bc Rome was the beast!

Are you listening so far? OK. Because this is the reality of the prophecy in history.

Ok. The harlot "Babylon" is Jerusalem in the 1st century generation who had become "a habit of demons"  Jesus said several times the present generation was "wicked."

Most of all, the Biblical record speaks to Israel as mystery Babylon.
 In Rev.18:23, the voice of the bride & bridegroom shall not be heard in you anymore.

It is Jerusalem & Jerusalem only. The entire Bible is about Israel. True Israel was about to be raised up. God declared He was Israel's Husband. He had been married to Israel (Jer.3:14).

The city that was spiritually called "sodom & gomorrah" & "egypt"   But literally "where the Lord was crucified." was Jerusalem.


But what you have there Corbley about America & China, should be asked in the "Politics" section. ::smile::



Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2009, 10:07:25 AM »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Mr. J

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
  • Manna: 12
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2009, 10:24:06 AM »
The woman who rides the beast is clearly defined as MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH (Rev. 17-5).  So she is clearly not Israel.  

In addition, the woman who rides the beast is further explained in Rev. 17 7-18.  She is "that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

Babylon the Great and Mystery Babylon is the same thing.  It is a city.  There are other clues about this city:

:  It is reigns over the kings of the earth (who will agree to destroy it).  Rev. 17 16-17.
:  It is the very center of world trade.  Rev. 18
:  It has a deep water port where all the world's ships come.  Rev. 18 17
:  It it from where evil is spread throughout the world.  Rev 18 3
:  It is called MYSTERY BABYLON, which seems to tell us something is not as it seems, or behind the scenes activities; power brokers, occult? Rev. 17 5

Currently there is only one city on earth that can be described as all the above; New York.  The only other city on earth that has such a large, deep water port and is a great manufacturing outlet and might possibly become rich enough (future?) is Hong Kong.

There are no European port cities which can fit all the descriptions.  There are no great port cities in Europe.  Frankfurt is the largest city in Europe and it has no port.

We are told clearly that Mystery Babylon is a city.  It is not a figure of speech.  It cannot be Jerusalem as that city is not the center of world trade, nor has it ever been.  Nor has it ruled the kings of the earth.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2009, 10:24:06 AM »



Offline rezar

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
  • Manna: 77
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2009, 11:22:48 AM »
No, you're being hyperliteral of a book that is clearly symbolic. I could even refute your geography & history, but it is not necessary. We won't find that in the N.T. No other city will be reconciled with the thousand pieces of evidence for the mother of harlots & not the mother of the free woman.(heavenly Jerusalem- the spiritual New Jerusalem- the church universal)

Name another city that Jesus lamented over. Yep, it was a city alright. And it was occupied by corrupted priestly leadership in her last days.


24 “ Seventy weeks are determined
      For your people and for your holy city,
      To finish the transgression,
      To make an end of sins,
      To make reconciliation for iniquity,
      To bring in everlasting righteousness,
      To seal up vision and prophecy,
      And to anoint the Most Holy.
(Dan.9:24)

« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 11:53:29 AM by rezar »

Offline fish153

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4479
  • Manna: 424
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2009, 01:43:49 PM »
The woman who rides the beast is clearly defined as MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH (Rev. 17-5).  So she is clearly not Israel.  

In addition, the woman who rides the beast is further explained in Rev. 17 7-18.  She is "that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

Babylon the Great and Mystery Babylon is the same thing.  It is a city.  There are other clues about this city:

:  It is reigns over the kings of the earth (who will agree to destroy it).  Rev. 17 16-17.
:  It is the very center of world trade.  Rev. 18
:  It has a deep water port where all the world's ships come.  Rev. 18 17
:  It it from where evil is spread throughout the world.  Rev 18 3
:  It is called MYSTERY BABYLON, which seems to tell us something is not as it seems, or behind the scenes activities; power brokers, occult? Rev. 17 5

Currently there is only one city on earth that can be described as all the above; New York.  The only other city on earth that has such a large, deep water port and is a great manufacturing outlet and might possibly become rich enough (future?) is Hong Kong.

There are no European port cities which can fit all the descriptions.  There are no great port cities in Europe.  Frankfurt is the largest city in Europe and it has no port.

We are told clearly that Mystery Babylon is a city.  It is not a figure of speech.  It cannot be Jerusalem as that city is not the center of world trade, nor has it ever been.  Nor has it ruled the kings of the earth.


I think you are forgetting Dubai City in Dubai.  It has become one of the wealthiest cities on earth, with the tallest building.  It is right on the water, and right in an area where terrorists could destroy it in one day.  It is a modern day Babylon-----google it and check it out.  It has huge prostitution problems (amazing as it is an Arab city within an Arab Country).  

The whole world has invested there---even Donald Trump.   Think about it seriously----what city would terrorists love to destroy?  We think New York, or an American city----but what about one that resembles America in every way, located in a country that has compromised it's arab and muslim values to embrace the capitilistic world? It is capitilism run amock, with LAVISH living literally everywhere.  I think Dubai City fits the bill of a modern day Babylon---and it could literally be destroyed in one day just as Revelation states will happen to the city.

Offline rezar

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
  • Manna: 77
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2009, 02:07:54 PM »
Oh, it's such a sinful world! Here's a good one. Enjoy:
http://www.geocities.com/newearthcs/studies/BabylonJerusalem.html

Offline Mr. J

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
  • Manna: 12
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2009, 03:35:27 PM »
No, you're being hyperliteral


An angel gives  the interpretation of who the woman is that rides the beast and you call it hyperliteral. (Rev. ch  17)

Apparently you don't believe what the angel told John.

Offline Mr. J

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
  • Manna: 12
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2009, 03:41:07 PM »

I think you are forgetting Dubai City in Dubai.

Dubai City is not the center of world trade, nor does it appear that it ever will be as it has no manufacturing.  That city is not a city where the world's ships come to.  It is not, nor ever has been a seat of power over kings.

Dubai City in no way resembles that city spoken of in the Bible as Babylon the Great.

Offline rezar

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
  • Manna: 77
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2009, 05:05:55 PM »

I think you are forgetting Dubai City in Dubai.


Dubai City is not the center of world trade, nor does it appear that it ever will be as it has no manufacturing.  That city is not a city where the world's ships come to.  It is not, nor ever has been a seat of power over kings.

Dubai City in no way resembles that city spoken of in the Bible as Babylon the Great.


The Arabs thoughts exactly on 9-11.  So how come Jesus didn't return when "Babylon" was hit? Go on now, Rev.18 flows into 1/2 of Rev.19 - & "we" celebrate that our prayers, ( these are the prayers of the saints) have been answered by God -" paying with retribution on those who trouble you" (2Thess.1)
It is false prophesying to say something the Lord said was "at hand" in His generation.  So who should i believe?

Can see the oil industry flourished while the rest of the world 's in a recession!

                               
                                    Dubai

                                       



Offline Corbley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1438
  • Manna: 58
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2009, 06:21:43 PM »
No, you're being hyperliteral


An angel gives  the interpretation of who the woman is that rides the beast and you call it hyperliteral. (Rev. ch  17)

Apparently you don't believe what the angel told John.

Rezar follows (what I believe to be a false doctrine) In that, he thinks the second coming has already happened. 
I think, that many are being fooled into this false doctrine,  and will likely cause many faithful Christians to be decieved into getting the Mark ...Which is coming to a Dr.s office soon.   (Probably shortly after the EU places a Perm. Pres)

Offline rezar

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
  • Manna: 77
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2009, 06:50:37 PM »
No, you're being hyperliteral



An angel gives  the interpretation of who the woman is that rides the beast and you call it hyperliteral. (Rev. ch  17)

Apparently you don't believe what the angel told John.


Rezar follows (what I believe to be a false doctrine) In that, he thinks the second coming has already happened. 
I think, that many are being fooled into this false doctrine,  and will likely cause many faithful Christians to be decieved into getting the Mark ...Which is coming to a Dr.s office soon.   (Probably shortly after the EU places a Perm. Pres)



Rezar follows this or that. Boo-hoo. So, missy, will you be 1st to get it at the Drs. office? 
 It'll be my pleasure!


Offline BondServant

  • Global Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6747
  • Manna: 251
  • Gender: Male
  • There's No Place Like Home
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2009, 07:45:32 PM »
rezar, you need to lighten up.  Your beliefs are just that, your beliefs.  They are not stone truth.  If the Bible says a city is going to be destroyed, it is not hyperliteral to claim a city is going to be destroyed.  And, frankly, to claim it is not a city takes more twisting and explaining then to claim it is a city.

Mr. J, New York is the economic capital of the world.  Remember 1929?  Actions in NY threw the entire world into a depression.  Destruction of that city would have a world-wide impact today.

In Christ,
KP

Offline rezar

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
  • Manna: 77
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Is Revelation 18 talking about America?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2009, 08:51:16 PM »
rezar, you need to lighten up.  Your beliefs are just that, your beliefs.  They are not stone truth.  If the Bible says a city is going to be destroyed, it is not hyperliteral to claim a city is going to be destroyed.  And, frankly, to claim it is not a city takes more twisting and explaining then to claim it is a city.

Mr. J, New York is the economic capital of the world.  Remember 1929?  Actions in NY threw the entire world into a depression.  Destruction of that city would have a world-wide impact today.

In Christ,
KP
With all due respect, the Bible said that 2,000 yrs. ago.
And lighten up?  i'm the only one on this thread with a sense of humor.  ::disco::