GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: Israel In Prophecy  (Read 6612 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline glen

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 444
  • Manna: 13
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #35 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 11:48:19 »
Glen: "i don't think 14400 is symbolic but literal, but regarding the olive tree i believe the 144000 are branches of the olive tree (2 trees in fact)."

Well, if the 144000 is literal I would say this number has long been fulfilled. The JW's teach this and they believe they are among this number.  If the 144000 is literal we must say the souls who had been beheaded for the cause of Christ in Revelation 20 reign will end after the 1000 year reign with Him. Since it is contended as literal that the "reign of Christ" is over after the 1000 years, is it not equally true that that the "living" with Christ would be the same length of time and over? If not, why not?

i don't understand all of what your saying but in answer to what i put in bold

whatever the JW teach is irrevelant to what i think- i agree with some things the preterists, futurists, JW's, SDA's, catholics, AOG, and whatever else says, but i don't cling to any denomination, in fact i don't even bother going to church anymore because i am highly suspicious of they're motives

the bible does not say the reign of christ is over at 1000 years

it only says the saints reign with christ for 1000 years

after this satan is released from the abyss





Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #35 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 11:48:19 »

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #36 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 12:30:23 »
Glen: "i don't think 14400 is symbolic but literal, but regarding the olive tree i believe the 144000 are branches of the olive tree (2 trees in fact)."

Well, if the 144000 is literal I would say this number has long been fulfilled. The JW's teach this and they believe they are among this number.  If the 144000 is literal we must say the souls who had been beheaded for the cause of Christ in Revelation 20 reign will end after the 1000 year reign with Him. Since it is contended as literal that the "reign of Christ" is over after the 1000 years, is it not equally true that that the "living" with Christ would be the same length of time and over? If not, why not?

i don't understand all of what your saying but in answer to what i put in bold

whatever the JW teach is irrevelant to what i think- i agree with some things the preterists, futurists, JW's, SDA's, catholics, AOG, and whatever else says, but i don't cling to any denomination, in fact i don't even bother going to church anymore because i am highly suspicious of they're motives

the bible does not say the reign of christ is over at 1000 years

it only says the saints reign with christ for 1000 years

after this satan is released from the abyss



Dear Glen, the following scripture may help in understanding the length of Jesus' reign.

1 Corinthians 15:25  For He (Jesus) must reign (1000 years), till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

1 Corinthians 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. This will occur in Revelation 20:14.  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death and after the thousand years reign of Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:27  For He hath put all things under his feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He (Our Father) is excepted, which did put all things under Him (Jesus).

1 Corinthians 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto Him (Jesus), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him (Our Father) that put all things under Him (Jesus), that God may be all in all.

 

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #36 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 12:30:23 »

Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #37 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 13:07:18 »
 
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.


1 Corinthians 15:25  For He (Jesus) must reign (1000 years), till He hath put all enemies under His feet.


The scripture does not say 1000 years.   

Folks adding to scripture, to force scripture to fit their theology is a pet peeve....


larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #38 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 13:21:33 »

1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.


1 Corinthians 15:25  For He (Jesus) must reign (1000 years), till He hath put all enemies under His feet.


The scripture does not say 1000 years.   

Folks adding to scripture, to force scripture to fit their theology is a pet peeve....


I'm sorry you have to feel I'm attempting to force scripture to fit my theology; to me that statement is just sad.

Revelation 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 
Revelation 20:7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison. Seems to me the party is over and opposition is again coming.

Eagle, just how long do you consider the reign of Christ to be? Is Jesus reigning at this moment to you?


Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #38 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 13:21:33 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #39 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 14:16:24 »
Christ reign is ever lasting.   When has He not reigned?  If is to reign again that woudl mean He stopped reiging at some point.  He is the King of Kings to be king  one must have a kingdom.

Psa 97:1  The LORD reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof.

2Pe 1:11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Psa 47:8  God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness.


Psa 145:13  Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.


Dan 4:3  How great are his signs! and how mighty are his wonders! his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion is from generation to generation.

1 Co 15:25 does not say 1000.



Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #39 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 14:16:24 »



larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #40 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 15:36:38 »
Christ reign is ever lasting.   When has He not reigned?  If is to reign again that woudl mean He stopped reiging at some point.  He is the King of Kings to be king  one must have a kingdom.

Psa 97:1  The LORD reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof.

2Pe 1:11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Psa 47:8  God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness.


Psa 145:13  Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.


Dan 4:3  How great are his signs! and how mighty are his wonders! his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion is from generation to generation.

1 Co 15:25 does not say 1000.


Sounds very much like you're into Jesus only doctrines.

Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #41 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 16:21:07 »
Quote
Sounds very much like you're into Jesus only doctrines.

I dont think so.  Is that the same as oneness?  If so then NO!

I believe in God the Father, God the Son, & God the Holy Spirit.

The three in one.   Is Christ your King ?
 
Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7  Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

 
 I read Isa     9;6 to say a child was born...
....in verse   7....  his kingdom ...henceforth even for ever.   

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #42 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 18:09:10 »
Quote
Sounds very much like you're into Jesus only doctrines.

I dont think so.  Is that the same as oneness?  If so then NO!

I believe in God the Father, God the Son, & God the Holy Spirit.

The three in one.   Is Christ your King ?
 
Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7  Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

 
 I read Isa     9;6 to say a child was born...
....in verse   7....  his kingdom ...henceforth even for ever.   

So you believe the moment Jesus was born he took all rule and authority to never end? If not when does His reign start.

Do you believe even at this present time we see all things put under him?

Is Jesus on His throne at this time?

Is Jesus presently ruling as King of kings, and Lord of lord?

Just what do you think Jesus' role is at this time?

What does the following verse in 1 Corinthians 15:28 mean to you? "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #43 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 19:15:50 »
You didn't answer   Is Christ your King?

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


Quote
Is Jesus on His throne at this time?

Is Jesus presently ruling as King of kings, and Lord of lord?


Answer to the above     Yes


Quote
Just what do you think Jesus' role is at this time?

 To be who He is  At the right hand of the Father


Quote
What does the following verse in 1 Corinthians 15:28 mean to you? "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

I do understand that things are and will be changing. He will return.

He will return as King  it is not mankind that has the authority to crown Him.  Man tried that 2000 years ago..

Psa 146:10  The LORD shall reign for ever, even thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Praise ye the LORD.

The verse that started this exchange says He reigns.

1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #44 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 20:03:03 »

Eagle - You didn't answer   Is Christ your King?

larry2 - Of course, one of the many names of my Lord.

Eagle -Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

larry2 - And the purpose of the above scripture?

Larry2 Quote
Is Jesus on His throne at this time?

Is Jesus presently ruling as King of kings, and Lord of lord?

Eagle - Answer to the above     Yes

larry2 - Is the answer yes to the question of Jesus being on His throne at this time to fit your theology, or are you Preterist and do you have scripture to show that?

larry2 Quote
Just what do you think Jesus' role is at this time?

Eagle - To be who He is  At the right hand of the Father

larry2 - I thought you just said Jesus was ruling as King of kings, and Lord of lords, and on His own throne? ? ?

larry2 Quote
What does the following verse in 1 Corinthians 15:28 mean to you? "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

Eagle - I do understand that things are and will be changing. He will return.

He will return as King  it is not mankind that has the authority to crown Him.  Man tried that 2000 years ago..

Psa 146:10  The LORD shall reign for ever, even thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Praise ye the LORD.

The verse that started this exchange says He reigns.
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

larry2 - It might help you to separate the context of the different time frames of Jesus acting as our mediator and judge as He is walking among the candlesticks, His time of receiving His own throne and reigning and ruling as King of kings, and Lord of lords, and His time spent in eternity with His bride by His side after giving the reigns of power back to His Father and becoming subject to Him again.

Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #45 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 20:26:45 »
Quote
Eagle -Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

larry2 - And the purpose of the above scripture?

So you believe the moment Jesus was born he took all rule and authority to never end?

The quote above was to answer your above question..


Larry  He is your King He has a kingdom He reigns as King!  Or did you say He is king only in name..

Quote
larry2 - Is the answer yes to the question of Jesus being on His throne at this time to fit your theology, or are you Preterist and do you have scripture to show that?

The scriptures i already posted .
Quote
larry2 Quote
Just what do you think Jesus' role is at this time?

Eagle - To be who He is  At the right hand of the Father

larry2 - I thought you just said Jesus was ruling as King of kings, and Lord of lords, and on His own throne? ? ?

I would  believe being God the Son  He could be/do more then one thing at a time.


Quote
larry2 - It might help you to separate the context of the different time frames of Jesus acting as our mediator and judge as He is walking among the candlesticks, His time of receiving His own throne and reigning and ruling as King of kings, and Lord of lords, and His time spent in eternity with His bride by His side after giving the reigns of power back to His Father and becoming subject to Him again.

We will not agree, I dont believe we have the full understanding of scripture.



Thank you for putting out the effort to make the reading of your post simple!  That was very nice!

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #46 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 21:02:27 »

Dear Eagle, to confirm what I believe in simplistic terms, we must use the word of God to guide us into truth as to the chronological order of events to come. Jesus though prophesied as King was not ruling at the time of His birth.

When Jesus left heaven to come to and for us He did nothing of His own, but always those things of His Father. He was not acting as the king, but as a servant; He came not to be ministered to, but to die as a ransom for many.

When He said in Matthew 28:18 saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth, He has yet to take that power. We are not at that time when He shall have put down all rule and authority.

We are presently in the times of the Gentiles, and He is visiting the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. When He takes His own throne in Revelation 4:2 you will see the Lamb turn into the Lion of the tribe of Juda and you will see nations in complete disarray as He judges them with His armies. There is so much more I wish I could get across, but these things come precept upon precept.

May God bless you in Jesus' name.


Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #47 on: Mon Mar 08, 2010 - 22:33:39 »
Larry, I grew up under the cloud of dispensationalism.  For the most part  what you post is not strange to me.

Is there another book that cam be so discussed over and over?  His Word is a marvel ...

Well we read Matt differently.    is given   not will be given   a done deal. 

 I often wonder what would happen if we Christians gave as much honor to God as muslims give to alla.

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #48 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 03:58:20 »

larry2 - Eagle, it's strange that you would say that now after challenging my beliefs and accusing me of adding to scripture to fit my theology. On top of that I'm under a cloud of dispensationalism; you certainly have a way with words, and I haven't even started digging out your comments to others.

Eagle - Well we read Matt differently.    is given   not will be given   a done deal. 

larry2 - That power and authority certainly is given, but you like many fail to read further than the one line. Has Jesus applied that authority? Why isn't Satan locked up yet? Why are nations running amuck? When did the great enthronement of Jesus in Revelation 4:2 occur?

In the following verse just Who are we being told that does not yet have all things put under Him?

Hebrews 2:8  Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

If Jesus was already on His throne exacting His all power and authority on an unbelieving world, how long do you think it would take Him to complete the job? Seven years maybe? If you believe Jesus can't, or won't correct things as they now are, you're not reading of the same Lord I worship.

The timetable is given us in Revelation and we read in Revelation 22:7,  Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. After the present judgment of the Church now in progress, Revelation Chapter Four begins with the hereafter in Verse One. Cloud of Dispensationalism? Maybe rightly dividing the word of truth is appropriate.

Somewhere back in the overall view of things on this thread, I thought Israel was a factor in the end times prophesy, and it will be as God centers near all things of the last three and one half years of the tribulation in judgment to them, and for them. Keep your eyes on one small strip of land among the whole earth that will be the very center of action of God's dealing with mankind; God ain't cast them away.

Where do I plan to be during all this happening in and to the world? Revelation 3:10  Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
 
You talk of us honoring God as much as the Muslims honor Allah; bull feathers. They honor man's teaching and not God's sacrifice of giving us His Son Jesus.

My thoughts.

Offline glen

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 444
  • Manna: 13
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #49 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 09:21:50 »

1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.


1 Corinthians 15:25  For He (Jesus) must reign (1000 years), till He hath put all enemies under His feet.


The scripture does not say 1000 years.  

Folks adding to scripture, to force scripture to fit their theology is a pet peeve....


I'm sorry you have to feel I'm attempting to force scripture to fit my theology; to me that statement is just sad.

Revelation 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
  
Revelation 20:7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison. Seems to me the party is over and opposition is again coming.

Eagle, just how long do you consider the reign of Christ to be? Is Jesus reigning at this moment to you?[/size]


good point larry

i did not really connect with your previous post (to me) but what i put in bold which you typed made more sense
satan has a very short reign of the earth (other than jerusalem), which is why the whole earth tries to invade the holy city

Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #50 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 09:54:56 »
Quote
larry2 - Eagle, it's strange that you would say that now after challenging my beliefs and accusing me of adding to scripture to fit my theology. On top of that I'm under a cloud of dispensationalism; you certainly have a way with words, and I haven't even started digging out your comments to others.

1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.  The number 1000 is not there

Quote
Eagle - Well we read Matt differently.    is given   not will be given   a done deal. 

larry2 - That power and authority certainly is given, but you like many fail to read further than the one line. Has Jesus applied that authority? Why isn't Satan locked up yet? Why are nations running amuck? When did the great enthronement of Jesus in Revelation 4:2 occur?


In the following verse just Who are we being told that does not yet have all things put under Him?

Hebrews 2:8  Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

If Jesus was already on His throne exacting His all power and authority on an unbelieving world, how long do you think it would take Him to complete the job? Seven years maybe? If you believe Jesus can't, or won't correct things as they now are, you're not reading of the same Lord I worship.
  It is not for me to ask God why the nations are in such a mes. He has His time table and i just believe man doesn't know it.
Quote
The timetable is given us in Revelation and we read in Revelation 22:7,  Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. After the present judgment of the Church now in progress, Revelation Chapter Four begins with the hereafter in Verse One. Cloud of Dispensationalism? Maybe rightly dividing the word of truth is appropriate.


I am sorry i dont write well,  I, ME , myself was, under the cloud , after your objection i see how one would take offence . I see it as a cloud you don't. You dont agree with me  your not under the cloud. You object to my words yet you kindly tell me i dont divied the Word correctly
Quote

Somewhere back in the overall view of things on this thread, I thought Israel was a factor in the end times prophesy, and it will be as God centers near all things of the last three and one half years of the tribulation in judgment to them, and for them. Keep your eyes on one small strip of land among the whole earth that will be the very center of action of God's dealing with mankind; God ain't cast them away.
Salvation is through the blood of Christ.
Quote
Where do I plan to be during all this happening in and to the world? Revelation 3:10  Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
 
Quote
You talk of us honoring God as much as the Muslims honor Allah; bull feathers. They honor man's teaching and not God's sacrifice of giving us His Son Jesus.                             

My thoughts..


I full know they honor mans teaching that is why i used the word allah and not God.  Why do you say bull feathers to me?   We agree


 
 
 
 

Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #51 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 09:58:10 »
Quote
larry2 - Eagle, it's strange that you would say that now after challenging my beliefs and accusing me of adding to scripture to fit my theology. On top of that I'm under a cloud of dispensationalism; you certainly have a way with words, and I haven't even started digging out your comments to others.

Are you saying this with a hint to you being a moderator? 

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #52 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 10:56:14 »

Eagle - It is not for me to ask God why the nations are in such a mess. He has His time table and i just believe man doesn't know it.

larry2 - That's exactly right, we do not know the date but we can know the sequence of events, Jesus will take the reigns of His power after God is finished with the times of the Gentiles; that date I do not know. A time to be born, and a time to die is a schedule kept to the day selected by Him, though through Daniel's prophesies we now see it.

Dear Eagle, I do not mean to come off as accusing you of not rightly dividing the word because you don't agree with me for I can error easily too, but there are some things rightly divided that cast all doubt from us in the debate we're having.

Number one is the fact that Jesus has not taken control of His authority since we do not see all things under Him at this time according to Hebrews 2:8.

Number two in our debate is that born to be King of kings, and Lord of lords it is still future. Though equal with God the Father, He left that place to become man in Philippians Chapter two and took seven great steps downward to become man and die for us; He was not reigning at that time.

While you're hung up on the thousand year reign I'm not; I truthfully believe Jesus' reign will align with those that will rule and reign with Him that He has chosen, and I cannot agree with you more in the fact that salvation is through the blood of Jesus.

Previous Larry2 Quote
Eagle, it's strange that you would say that now after challenging my beliefs and accusing me of adding to scripture to fit my theology. On top of that I'm under a cloud of dispensationalism; you certainly have a way with words, and I haven't even started digging out your comments to others.

Eagle - Are you saying this with a hint to you being a moderator? 

larry2 - I sure hope not and all are free to disagree with me unless they promote a non-Christian religion, or start drawing complaints from other members, and even then that is checked with great diligence as to their validity.

May God bless you in your walk with HIm in Jesus' name.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12329
  • Manna: 353
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #53 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 11:44:14 »
When He said in Matthew 28:18 saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth, He has yet to take that power. We are not at that time when He shall have put down all rule and authority.
I disagree.  ::smile::

The question the disciples asked Jesus in Acts 1:6 -

"Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"

- seems to indicate that He had already taken up the authority of rule for Himself.  (And wasn't this the point of the transfiguration?)  Notice the answer...

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

- which indicates that He intends to go right on ruling, using the apostles as His means of exercising authority in the earth.

I realize you were probably taught a different interpretation of that passage.  Actually, so was I.  But when I read verse 6 in Greek, it didn't mean what I was taught it meant.

Jarrod

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12329
  • Manna: 353
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #54 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 11:53:32 »
larry2 - Number one is the fact that Jesus has not taken control of His authority since we do not see all things under Him at this time according to Hebrews 2:8.[/color]
That seems backwards to me. 

"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." 1 Cor 15:25

...indicates that He is reigning already.  But it goes further to say that:

"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."  1 Cor 15:28

Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #55 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 11:59:30 »
Rom 14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18  For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19  Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

Quote
While you're hung up on the thousand year reign I'm not; I truthfully believe Jesus' reign will align with those that will rule and reign with Him that He has chosen, and I cannot agree with you more in the fact that salvation is through the blood of Jesus.

I am not 'hung up' on a thousand year reign... I noted the number 1000 is not in Co 15:25 .  

2000 years ago folks rejected Him because He was not the king they thought He sould be.


Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #56 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 12:03:04 »
He will/has always reigned (IMHO)


"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." 1 Cor 15:25


Joe must keep throwing passes tell he has won the game

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #57 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 12:08:11 »
larry2 - Number one is the fact that Jesus has not taken control of His authority since we do not see all things under Him at this time according to Hebrews 2:8.[/color]
That seems backwards to me. 

"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." 1 Cor 15:25

...indicates that He is reigning already.  But it goes further to say that:

"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."  1 Cor 15:28

Since Jesus at this time sits at the right hand of His Father, do you really think He is ruling from that position as our mediator rather than the vantage point when He receives His own throne in Revelation 4:2, and then how long do you believe His reign is?

Thanks.

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #58 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 12:11:20 »
He will/has always reigned (IMHO)


"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." 1 Cor 15:25


Joe must keep throwing passes tell he has won the game


OK Eagle; I cry uncle and give up.  ::smile::

Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #59 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 12:49:14 »
I miss Joe Montana football... glory days gone by


Thank you Larry for the time you spend moderating this place. I haveseen what happens when mods are not around...

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12329
  • Manna: 353
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #60 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 13:52:59 »
Since Jesus at this time sits at the right hand of His Father, do you really think He is ruling from that position as our mediator...
Yes.

"But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him." verse 27

Quote
...rather than the vantage point when He receives His own throne in Revelation 4:2,
Not really sure what you mean here.  I don't see the difference.

Quote
...and then how long do you believe His reign is?

Thanks.
[/size]
I don't know.

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #61 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 20:16:55 »
Since Jesus at this time sits at the right hand of His Father, do you really think He is ruling from that position as our mediator...
Yes.

"But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him." verse 27

Quote
...rather than the vantage point when He receives His own throne in Revelation 4:2,
Not really sure what you mean here.  I don't see the difference.

Quote
...and then how long do you believe His reign is?

Thanks.
[/size]
I don't know.

Are you aware that Jesus receives His own throne in Revelation 4:2? If He is presently ruling, why does He receive His throne at that future time? Maybe we should begin there and with the fact that it occurs with things shown to John that will be hereafter from that point and then note how Israel is the center of prophesy at that time..

Offline BroBrent

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 439
  • Manna: 11
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #62 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 22:24:01 »
Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in;
Ro 11:26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The times of the gentiles will be the length 2520 years. 360 X 7.. You can get that if you read the story of Elijah laying i the dust of the yard.

Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #63 on: Tue Mar 09, 2010 - 22:40:38 »
Rev 4:2  And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

2  Straightway I was in the Spirit: and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting upon the throne;

2  At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it


Seems He was already on the throne........

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #64 on: Wed Mar 10, 2010 - 01:12:08 »
Rev 4:2  And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

2  Straightway I was in the Spirit: and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting upon the throne;

2  At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it


Seems He was already on the throne........

Hey! I already gave up to you. You win and can believe what you want to.   ::smile::

No, a throne is set, or put down. Prior to this Jesus was at the right hand of His Father. Consider the following verse.

Revelation 3:21  To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
 

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #65 on: Wed Mar 10, 2010 - 01:19:28 »

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in;
Ro 11:26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The times of the gentiles will be the length 2520 years. 360 X 7.. You can get that if you read the story of Elijah laying in the dust of the yard.


An excerpt of a study chart I made below, and it consists of teachings of many authors.

Times of the Gentile‚Äôs 2520 years ended in 1914 or 1950 by the Jewish 360 day calendar. The beginning of the times of the gentiles took several years to complete and there will be several years in converting from Gentile to Jewish rule again, The Gentile nations will not want to give up rule and will be usurpers, but Jesus will take His authority at start of tribulation and accomplishes it in seven years -  GREAT GRACE!   Men are still being given space to repent, but do not.  (Rev 16:9).



Offline Eagle

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1300
  • Manna: 38
  • Gender: Female
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #66 on: Wed Mar 10, 2010 - 08:53:33 »
Rev 4  reads to me like what John saw...

verse 1 ..... Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. .....

So up he goes,
 chapter 4 & 5   are what he sees...John is trying to find words beautifull enough to describe what he is looking at....

Chapter 6    ..... Come and see. ...... now he is to see what will be,  as in verse 4:1.


Come on Larry exchange of ideas, thoughts is not win or loose.  Not every one reads things the same...

 

Offline RalphMalph

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 419
  • Manna: 16
  • Leiscerbette
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #67 on: Wed Mar 10, 2010 - 09:30:03 »
Great Post!
You are 'pointmade' for a reason  ::amen!::


"Be quiet! They're listening.."  ::groupprayer::

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #68 on: Wed Mar 10, 2010 - 11:00:10 »
Rev 4  reads to me like what John saw...

verse 1 ..... Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. .....

So up he goes,
 chapter 4 & 5   are what he sees...John is trying to find words beautifull enough to describe what he is looking at....

Chapter 6    ..... Come and see. ...... now he is to see what will be,  as in verse 4:1.


Come on Larry exchange of ideas, thoughts is not win or loose.  Not every one reads things the same...

 

Hi Eagle, and I'm just pulling your chain; I'll answer your or anyone's questions to the best of my limited ability until the cows come home.

In this post you are seeing something very significant in the table of events. I cannot start with all that is involved, or even cover all parts of Revelation except in parts as the discussion continues. You have described the second viewpoint of the Revelation of Jesus Christ and that is when John is called into heaven to see things that will happen hereafter after the things he was shown here on earth describing the church from Pentecost till this point.

There is five separate vision views points as the apostle is in spirit in five different locations. They will not be in chronological order as different events are sometimes included in an other viewpoint also. The first view point includes parts of the other four view points for instance.

And then I do not want to stray too far from the point of Israel in prophesy.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12329
  • Manna: 353
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel In Prophecy
« Reply #69 on: Wed Mar 10, 2010 - 11:21:23 »
Are you aware that Jesus receives His own throne in Revelation 4:2? If He is presently ruling, why does He receive His throne at that future time? Maybe we should begin there and with the fact that it occurs with things shown to John that will be hereafter from that point and then note how Israel is the center of prophesy at that time..
You sure?  ...that isn't how I read that.

My paradigm for reading Revelation is simple: 1) anything that is 'seen' is symbolic, and 2) what is 'explained' about it is literal.

 

     
anything