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Offline Eagle

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #140 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 16:39:47 »
Where in these 10 pages have i posted a theroy?
Quote

Just hang around. I will point out one soon, if you write one.

Coop

 Coop you already said  
Quote
So does everyone else.
guess i  have to say that must have been a MYTH

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #140 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 16:39:47 »

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #141 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 17:18:31 »
Where in these 10 pages have i posted a theroy?
Quote

Just hang around. I will point out one soon, if you write one.

Coop

 Coop you already said  
Quote
So does everyone else.
guess i  have to say that must have been a MYTH

"So does everyone else" post theories. We all have theories." Are you saying you have no theories?

Coop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #141 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 17:18:31 »

Offline Eagle

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #142 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 17:24:45 »
Nope,   i am not saying i dont have no theories....  I have not posted a theory. 


You twist the Word of God so twisting my words should be a breeze....

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #143 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 17:29:38 »
Eagle's theories:

Quote
What do you think Coop, you going to be in the air with the Lord for ever?

You are invited to support whatever view you hold of the 'rapture' by quoting Jesus Christ as recorded in the inspired Word of God.

We all set here battling over the rapture   I AM RIGHT!    YOU ARE WRONG!   NO NO IT IS THIS NOT THAT.


What did Jesus have to say at it? We are blessed to have some of His quotes. Can we not ask our self's about His words?  Wouldn't ya think the Guy that is doing the returning or rapturing would like His words to be considered?  Yes i know the whole of Scripture is God's Word, so dont bother to go down that road.


Coop you sweep scripture under your rug as it suits you.

So now being beheaded by the Beast is away of salvation?  AND one must be beheaded. not shot stabbed killed with an arrow?  Muslims also skin folks.



Is it YOUR theory that we will stay in the air and in the cloud forever? Is your vision of heaven sitting on a cloud with a harp?

If you even think you can find in the words of Jesus, information about the rapture of Paul, then you have a MYTHICAL theory. At the time Jesus was still alive the church was a MYSTERY. And the rapture was also a mystery not to be revealed until after the church had been around a few years. HOW could Paul have written that it was a MYSTERY, if Jesus had previously revealed it? Well, Jesus NEVER SPOKE of it, so Paul said it right that it was a Mystery.

It is only your THEORY that I sweep scripture under the rug.

I won't even comment on your last comment. It is TOO silly.

Coop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #143 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 17:29:38 »

Offline Eagle

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #144 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 17:38:25 »
I would think Paul will be raptured with the rest of us.

Quote
Is it YOUR theory that we will stay in the air and in the cloud forever? Is your vision of heaven sitting on a cloud with a harp?

Nope 

 but you say the scripture is literal and literaly what does it say?   

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #144 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 17:38:25 »



Offline Eagle

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #145 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 17:40:59 »
Who is Paul going to rapture?

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #146 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 17:52:40 »
MORE of Eagle's theories

Quote
LOL  if it was not so sad it would be very funny.   Odd God has told us His is not respecter of persons yet your as special as Choo. You are in a fairytale world Coop.  I do believe God has a special place in His heart for those like you.  

This is a THEORY. And it is a FAIRYTALE theory. I have only learned how to get the Holy Spirit to teach me. But the Holy Spirit would teach ANYONE that does not REFUSE to follow Acts 1 and 2.  Somehow, Eagle, I think you SKIPPED the first step.



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You believe you can see a myth. You have blinders on.

If I had blinders on, I could not see the error of your posts.


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2Pe 1:20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

This verse must be under all your rugs....

WRONG theory again: I usually point our FAIRY TALES by showing other scriptures that deny a certain theory.




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Learned in 1955 to doubt a man  who claimed to have the answers.  Over and over God has reconfirmed that lesson.
 Perhaps then, you trust no one?



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How do we get past  Rev 1 verses 1and 3

i am referring to the words shortly and at hand? thanks

I know you are FIXATED on these two words. But does "a thousand years as a day" have any meaning to you? If God sees a thousand earth years as a day, they how long is "shortly" to God? Do you have any common sense AT ALL? Have you supposed that the book of Revelation MUST HAVE BEEN FULFILLED within a few months of when John wrote it, because of these two words?  Have you NEVER THOUGHT that there are events in Revelation that certainly have NEVER HAPPENED. Has there EVEN been some event that killed 1/3 of earth's population?   Since you KNOW these things, WHY THEN do you ever bother questioning God about shortly. Just common sense tells you God's shortly has not ended yet.


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You claim that the thousand years is a clear 1000.  Because you claim it is literal and you are a literlist.  yet you diny the lioteral view of the the words shortly and at hand.

You sweep Revelation  chapter 1 verses 1 and 2 under your literal rug.  

TOTAL MYTH. Because I see 1000 as literal does not mean the world will see a leopard BEAST with seven heads. You are back to shortly again. WAKE UP! Most of Revelation did NOT HAPPEN in history.

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Do you see, readers, how Coop  SKIPS the real verses that disprove his mythical theories?

I certainly see why I write MYTH MYTH MYTH all the time.

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Coop you are all over the place your theology bounces to suit your needs.  I am so happy for you that you understand it the way God does.   Yet when He says "an hour" or" last day" He does not mean what He says.....

I don't think YOU KNOW what He means.


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Let me ask you a question: if a Jehovah's Witness is beheaded, will he or she go to heaven?

The way you have asked the above question implies you believe the JW was not saved.

If you think a Jehovah's Witness WAS saved, then you need more help that I even imagined. They can certainly BE saved, but if they are, they are NO LONGER a JW. They drop that like a hot potato.

Quote
That leads  me to think you believe some folks are “sorta saved
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 17:59:49 by lecoop »

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #147 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 17:56:23 »
I would think Paul will be raptured with the rest of us.

Quote
Is it YOUR theory that we will stay in the air and in the cloud forever? Is your vision of heaven sitting on a cloud with a harp?

Nope 

 but you say the scripture is literal and literaly what does it say?   

Your lack of reading skills are showing. IT DOES NOT SAY. It only says WE MEET Him. And forever more we will be WITH HIM. But Do you expect the King of the universe to spend eternity in a cloud? Really, Eagle, you think like a child. So why even imagine anything when there is another scripture that tells us so plainly? Go read John 14, and then NEVER ask anyone such a silly question again.

Paul will be one of the Dead in Christ that rises.

Coop

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #148 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 18:00:47 »
Who is Paul going to rapture?

Why would anyone write a silly question like this?

Coop

Offline Eagle

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #149 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 18:28:55 »



Who is Paul going to rapture?

Why would anyone write a silly question like this?

Coop



I have read many number of times around this forum about   "Pauls rapture"

Quote
Your lack of reading skills are showing. IT DOES NOT SAY. It only says WE MEET Him. And forever more we will be WITH HIM. But Do you expect the King of the universe to spend eternity in a cloud? Really, Eagle, you think like a child. So why even imagine anything when there is another scripture that tells us so plainly? Go read John 14, and then NEVER ask anyone such a silly question again.


You say the scripture are literal. I have not said they are or are not. 
You dont seem to like to be challanged about which scripture is literal.   


Quote
Paul will be one of the Dead in Christ that rises.


On the above we agree.....



 Do i need to do a search and find where you have posted "Pauls rapture" 



Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #150 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 18:38:28 »



Who is Paul going to rapture?

Why would anyone write a silly question like this?

Coop



I have read many number of times around this forum about   "Pauls rapture"

Quote
Your lack of reading skills are showing. IT DOES NOT SAY. It only says WE MEET Him. And forever more we will be WITH HIM. But Do you expect the King of the universe to spend eternity in a cloud? Really, Eagle, you think like a child. So why even imagine anything when there is another scripture that tells us so plainly? Go read John 14, and then NEVER ask anyone such a silly question again.


You say the scripture are literal. I have not said they are or are not. 
You dont seem to like to be challanged about which scripture is literal.   


Quote
Paul will be one of the Dead in Christ that rises.


On the above we agree.....



 Do i need to do a search and find where you have posted "Pauls rapture" 


Your arguments are all first grade level. They are silly. Surely you are better than this.
Paul is the ONLY WRITER of the New Testament that wrote of the rapture - so we call it PAUL's rapture.

Why don't you quit playing these games are write something worthwhile?

Do YOU take all of Revelation literal? Or do YOU take it all as symbolic?
Or do you take some one way and others a different way?

What is it that REALLY is bugging you? Are you really stuck on Rev. 1:1-3?
If not that, then what? Does it just bug you that I see things differently that you? Hey, EVERYONE here sees things differently than me! But I don't let that irritate me.  As you may have seen, what does irritate me is silliness. We are both FAR too old for silliness.

Perhaps it is because you believe in a post trib rapture and it bugs you that I don't?

Coop

Offline Eagle

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #151 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 18:55:21 »
You are invited to support whatever view you hold of the 'rapture' by quoting Jesus Christ as recorded in the inspired Word of God.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have posted silliness to you.  Some of your posts sound silly to me.  So IMHO i was just playing your game. 


I think maybe it is time to drop the game.


As i have said before i do not have a theory on The Revelation.  Growing up in Dispenstaional teaching and then studying scripture 'on my own' so to speak, I find the dispy teaching to out of step with too many scriptures. Beyond this i have no hard set, , theroy.

 I will say the quotes of Christ will be part of my understanding on/about all else i read in Scripture.


As one old christian person to another some of your post read like you have not 'really ' read the other guys posts you may wish to slow down a bit.


I will not play here any more.

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #152 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 19:02:27 »
You are invited to support whatever view you hold of the 'rapture' by quoting Jesus Christ as recorded in the inspired Word of God.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have posted silliness to you.  Some of your posts sound silly to me.  So IMHO i was just playing your game. 


I think maybe it is time to drop the game.
  Thank God forever!!!


Quote
As i have said before i do not have a theory on The Revelation.  Growing up in Dispenstaional teaching and then studying scripture 'on my own' so to speak, I find the dispy teaching to out of step with too many scriptures. Beyond this i have no hard set, , theroy.

Yet some of the finest minds in church history have believed in dispensations. It is just common sense: God did not require the same thing from men living before the flood that He requires of us today, and vice versa. He does not require of us what He required of those under the law. So to me, dispensations are as plain as day.

 
Quote
I will say the quotes of Christ will be part of my understanding on/about all else i read in Scripture.

Jesus lived as  prophet under the Old Testament. The New could not begin until His death, burial and resurrection. Therefore, we get MOST of our doctrine from the letters in the New Testament.


Quote
As one old christian person to another some of your post read like you have not 'really ' read the other guys posts you may wish to slow down a bit.


Perhaps, but you don't know how many times I have seen these same old arguments.


Quote
I will not play here any more.

Don't leave on my account. Who knows, perhaps you can still learn?

Coop

Offline n2thelight

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #153 on: Fri Jan 14, 2011 - 23:01:07 »
Coop,you said that Pauls last trump was different from the 7th trump in Rev,unless there is an 8th trump,which there is not,Paul's last has to be the 7th......

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #154 on: Sat Jan 15, 2011 - 06:40:26 »
Coop,you said that Pauls last trump was different from the 7th trump in Rev,unless there is an 8th trump,which there is not,Paul's last has to be the 7th......

You are thinking they are the same series. They are the last of TWO SEPARATE SERIES.

I can assure you, When Paul wrote, He has NO CLUE of the series in Revelation. They has been revealed to NO ONE.  Paul's last trump is almost surely the final trump of the Feast of Trumpets. Perhaps you need to study that feast. In truth, the two series are TOTALLY unrelated. The trumpets in Revelation are JUDGMENT trumpets. Remember, one of them kills 1/3 of earth's Population. The 7th trumpet is the 3rd woe. And you wish to relate THAT to the rapture?  You really need help!

Coop

Offline n2thelight

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #155 on: Sat Jan 15, 2011 - 23:04:24 »
Can somebody anybody please tell me how the elect,God's chosen from the foundation of the world miss the rapture?????

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #156 on: Sat Jan 15, 2011 - 23:13:46 »
Can somebody anybody please tell me how the elect,God's chosen from the foundation of the world miss the rapture?????


1) Not born again.
2) Born again but LUKEWARM
3) Born again, but NOT WATCHING - because they are looking for the Beast first.

There are the top three reasons why people will MISS the rapture.

But are you now beginning to believe in a pretrib rapture?

Coop

Offline Joyfullee

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #157 on: Sat Jan 15, 2011 - 23:42:01 »
Can somebody anybody please tell me how the elect,God's chosen from the foundation of the world miss the rapture?????

Not one of God's true elect will miss Jesus when He comes, at the end of the great tribulation; for every eye will see Him.

Blessings  ::smile::

Offline n2thelight

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #158 on: Sat Jan 15, 2011 - 23:47:53 »
Can somebody anybody please tell me how the elect,God's chosen from the foundation of the world miss the rapture?????


1) Not born again.
2) Born again but LUKEWARM
3) Born again, but NOT WATCHING - because they are looking for the Beast first.

There are the top three reasons why people will MISS the rapture.

But are you now beginning to believe in a pretrib rapture?

Coop

That wasn't the question...Let me ask it again how do the ELECT,miss this rapture....Let me give you an example,Paul was one of the elect if he were living today,why would he miss the rapture?

as for your list,what is a luke warm christian?Me believe in a rapture,heck no

blu

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #159 on: Sun Jan 16, 2011 - 13:27:39 »
You are invited to support whatever view you hold of the 'rapture' by quoting Jesus Christ as recorded in the inspired Word of God.

We can know when the day of the rapture is: Rev 3:3  Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch[study the bible word], I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. ::reading::

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #160 on: Sun Jan 16, 2011 - 13:31:59 »
Can somebody anybody please tell me how the elect,God's chosen from the foundation of the world miss the rapture?????

Not one of God's true elect will miss Jesus when He comes, at the end of the great tribulation; for every eye will see Him.

Blessings  ::smile::

The Bride of Christ, however, will have been in heaven with HIM, the BRIDE for the previous 7 years.  But MANY will be left behind that could have gone with the Bride. They were lukewarm - or believed they would see the Beast first.

Coop

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #161 on: Sun Jan 16, 2011 - 13:43:09 »
Can somebody anybody please tell me how the elect,God's chosen from the foundation of the world miss the rapture?????


1) Not born again.
2) Born again but LUKEWARM
3) Born again, but NOT WATCHING - because they are looking for the Beast first.

There are the top three reasons why people will MISS the rapture.

But are you now beginning to believe in a pretrib rapture?

Coop

That wasn't the question...Let me ask it again how do the ELECT,miss this rapture....Let me give you an example,Paul was one of the elect if he were living today,why would he miss the rapture?

as for your list,what is a luke warm christian?Me believe in a rapture,heck no


There has been no previous rapture that the bible tells us anything about - ONLY Paul's rapture that comes immediately before the Day of the Lord. I don't think there has been a rapture recorded during church history. Therefore, not only Paul, but ALL the 12 will be raised when the dead in Christ rise.  (1 Thes 4:17) 

Obviously then, when the angels are sent to gather together the elect at the END of the 70th week, the disciples are NOT INCLUDED.  They will be coming on white horses WITH Jesus. 

A lukewarm Christian can be several things: a born again believer that never went ONE STEP past salvation, and never made any attempt to live for God, (Seeds in rocky ground? Seeds by the wayside?) or that fell into sins and enjoyed it so much they have not repented, or that always stays TOO BUSY with pleasure and work that they spend NO TIME with God.

Then TEAR OUT 1 Thes. 4 and 5 and 1 Cor. 15 - for they all teach of the rapture.

Coop

Offline n2thelight

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #162 on: Mon Jan 17, 2011 - 23:52:13 »
Coop

You say that Paul is talking about the rapture in this chapter,Paul's rapture as you like too say,read the below verse,

2 Thessalonians 2:8 
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

My question is this,if the anti christ is destroyed at Christ coming,how does he persecute people during the trib?

Now!if you say Paul is now talking about the 2nd coming,can you please tell me when he switched subjects?

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #163 on: Tue Jan 18, 2011 - 07:22:17 »
Coop

You say that Paul is talking about the rapture in this chapter,Paul's rapture as you like too say,read the below verse,

2 Thessalonians 2:8 
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

My question is this,if the anti christ is destroyed at Christ coming,how does he persecute people during the trib?

Now!if you say Paul is now talking about the 2nd coming,can you please tell me when he switched subjects?

Let's use a little common sense. Are you up to it?

If the Antichrist is destroyed, can he do all the bad stuff He is suppose to do?
No, he must accomplishish what he accomplishes BEFORE he is destroyed.

If the Antichrist is not yet revealed, can he do all the bad stuff He is suppose to do?
No, he must accomplishish what he accomplishes AFTER He is revealed and BEFORE he is destroyed.

The question you need to ask here is WHAT ALLOWED His revealing?

Coop

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #164 on: Fri Apr 01, 2011 - 08:14:41 »
PLEASE BE AWARE =
Why the Tribulation MUST START on or before,
March 14, 2012

Let me show you ones of God’s Doors in (Mat 24:33),
this is something that we are not only allowed to know,
but we are commanded to know,
= know that it is near, even at the doors = (Mat 24:33),

Door #1 = March 14 2012 (Rapture),
this also means that Israel must sign,
the 7 year peace treaty by then too,
which designates the start of the tribulation

all those who are Born Again,
have less than one year to live,,,..
before the rapture of the saints

and if you don’t believe in the rapture,
then,,,
LAST DAY FOR HIS GLORIOUS APPEARANCE TO OCCURE   
(at the end of tribulation)      
DOOR #2 = FEBUARY 7, 2019


http://2020-vision.yolasite.com/





WHAT is near, even at the door?

Not the rapture, but His coming in the white horse.

HOW do you arrive at March 14th?
How do we know exactly how long "this generation" is?

There is NO DOUBT His coming is VERY soon. But I don't think anyone will pick the exact day.

Perhaps the tetrad of four blood red moons falling on anniversary dates of Jewish feasts, with an eclipse of the sun in the middle, is the biggest sign we could imagine! If that is the signs given at the 6th seal (and I think it is), then the rapture will come BEFORE the first blood red moon in 2014. How soon before? Anyone's guess.

Coop

Offline Feedmysheep

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #165 on: Sat Apr 02, 2011 - 12:53:44 »
 
Quote from: lecoop

I can assure you, When Paul wrote, He has NO CLUE of the series in Revelation. They has been revealed to NO ONE
.



 I don't have the assurance to say that. Paul mentions "the book of life" in his letter to the Philippians. And Paul was carried away to unspeakable places.

 I no longer have the assurance to state that Paul knew of nothing that John wrote. Maybe Paul knew more than we realize.





Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #166 on: Sat Apr 02, 2011 - 13:49:00 »
Quote from: lecoop

I can assure you, When Paul wrote, He had NO CLUE of the series in Revelation. They had been revealed to NO ONE
.



 I don't have the assurance to say that. Paul mentions "the book of life" in his letter to the Philippians. And Paul was carried away to unspeakable places.

 I no longer have the assurance to state that Paul knew of nothing that John wrote. Maybe Paul knew more than we realize.

Paul may have seen the book of life in heaven. Since then, God has allowed several to see it, and they have written about it. Some have been allowed to see their own name written in it.  I think, if Paul had known of the 7 trumpet judgments, he would have written about them.

The whole argument comes from those that think Paul's "last trump" must then be the 7th trumpet in Revelation. That theory is simply MYTH.

Coop

Offline Feedmysheep

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #167 on: Sat Apr 02, 2011 - 16:15:55 »
Quote from: lecoop

I can assure you, When Paul wrote, He had NO CLUE of the series in Revelation. They had been revealed to NO ONE
.



 I don't have the assurance to say that. Paul mentions "the book of life" in his letter to the Philippians. And Paul was carried away to unspeakable places.

 I no longer have the assurance to state that Paul knew of nothing that John wrote. Maybe Paul knew more than we realize.

Paul may have seen the book of life in heaven. Since then, God has allowed several to see it, and they have written about it. Some have been allowed to see their own name written in it.  I think, if Paul had known of the 7 trumpet judgments, he would have written about them.

The whole argument comes from those that think Paul's "last trump" must then be the 7th trumpet in Revelation. That theory is simply MYTH.

Coop

 But if Paul wrote about the book of life (Phil. 4:3) how do you know that he could not also write about the last tumpet ,ie. the seventh trumpet ?

 On your say so, it just couldn't be ?

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #168 on: Sat Apr 02, 2011 - 16:51:44 »
Quote from: lecoop

I can assure you, When Paul wrote, He had NO CLUE of the series in Revelation. They had been revealed to NO ONE
.



 I don't have the assurance to say that. Paul mentions "the book of life" in his letter to the Philippians. And Paul was carried away to unspeakable places.

 I no longer have the assurance to state that Paul knew of nothing that John wrote. Maybe Paul knew more than we realize.

Paul may have seen the book of life in heaven. Since then, God has allowed several to see it, and they have written about it. Some have been allowed to see their own name written in it.  I think, if Paul had known of the 7 trumpet judgments, he would have written about them.

The whole argument comes from those that think Paul's "last trump" must then be the 7th trumpet in Revelation. That theory is simply MYTH.

Coop

 But if Paul wrote about the book of life (Phil. 4:3) how do you know that he could not also write about the last tumpet ,ie. the seventh trumpet ?

 On your say so, it just couldn't be ?

They are two totally different trumpets, one sounded by an angel, and Paul's sounded by God Himself. Paul's last trump will be sounded at least 3.5 years before the 7th trumpet.  you can read from now to doomsday, and not read about the rapture while reading abut the 7th trumpet in Revelation. And that is because the rapture will happen 3.5 years BEFORE the 7th trumpet sounds. The 7th trumpet marks the exact midpoint of the 70th week.

Coop

Offline Feedmysheep

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #169 on: Sat Apr 02, 2011 - 20:50:03 »
They are two totally different trumpets, one sounded by an angel, and Paul's sounded by God Himself. Paul's last trump will be sounded at least 3.5 years before the 7th trumpet.  you can read from now to doomsday, and not read about the rapture while reading abut the 7th trumpet in Revelation. And that is because the rapture will happen 3.5 years BEFORE the 7th trumpet sounds. The 7th trumpet marks the exact midpoint of the 70th week.

Coop

     You did not answer my question. You only made the same assertion again. That won't do.     How do you know that "the trumpet of God" is sounded by God Himself ?

    "Because the Lord Himself, with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first." (1 Thess. 4:16)   Which words in that sentence tell you conclusively, without any doubt, that the trumpet of God is blown by God Himself ? You don't know that.

   How about here?

 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed." (1 Cor. 15:52)

  Which words in that verse assure you that the last trumpet can only be sounded by God ?  You don't know that.

   This reason you have given that Paul's "last trumpet" cannot be the seventh trumpet of the book of Revelation, is not strong. You should have a better reason for asserting that if it is true.

 And why do you think that after the resurrection and change mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:52 there should be another 3.5 years before the end of the great tribulation?
 
 Why do you believe that ?
« Last Edit: Sat Apr 02, 2011 - 20:56:51 by Feedmysheep »

Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #170 on: Sat Apr 02, 2011 - 21:55:00 »
They are two totally different trumpets, one sounded by an angel, and Paul's sounded by God Himself. Paul's last trump will be sounded at least 3.5 years before the 7th trumpet.  you can read from now to doomsday, and not read about the rapture while reading abut the 7th trumpet in Revelation. And that is because the rapture will happen 3.5 years BEFORE the 7th trumpet sounds. The 7th trumpet marks the exact midpoint of the 70th week.

Coop

     You did not answer my question. You only made the same assertion again. That won't do.     How do you know that "the trumpet of God" is sounded by God Himself ?

    "Because the Lord Himself, with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first." (1 Thess. 4:16)   Which words in that sentence tell you conclusively, without any doubt, that the trumpet of God is blown by God Himself ? You don't know that.

You answered your own question: WHO's trumpet is it? Sorry, but Gabe' is not going to blow God's trumpet. If He blows a trumpet, it will be his own.

  
Quote
How about here?

 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed." (1 Cor. 15:52)

  Which words in that verse assure you that the last trumpet can only be sounded by God ?  You don't know that.

I don't fight with scriptures; I believe them: when it says trump of God, why would you believe anyone else would blow it?

  
Quote
This reason you have given that Paul's "last trumpet" cannot be the seventh trumpet of the book of Revelation, is not strong. You should have a better reason for asserting that if it is true.

I understand John's chronology. I know where the rapture is in revelation, and I know that it comes before the 7th trumpet. If you would believe John, you would believe that too. When did Paul say his rapture would be? Just three verses after the classic rapture verse, Paul mentions the day of the Lord, as if that Day had some connection to the rapture. He goes on to say that while those in darkness get the sudden destruction of the first day of the Day of the Lord, WE get salvation by way of rapture, and get to live together with Him. Therefore, Paul is telling us plainly that the rapture comes BEFORE the day of the Lord. In fact, the rapture is the TRIGGER for that Day.

So where does the Day of the Lord begin in Revelation?  With the 7th seal. The SIGNS for that day are at the 6th seal. Therefore, the rapture will take place before the 7th seal. In fact, John saw the church in the throne room. If you believed what he wrote, you would know the rapture comes before the 7th trumpet.


 
Quote
And why do you think that after the resurrection and change mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:52 there should be another 3.5 years before the end of the great tribulation?
 
 Why do you believe that ?

That is not what the bible teaches or what I said. I said it will be about 3.5 years from the rapture to the 7th trumpet. But the 7th trumpet marks the MIDPOINT of the week, not the end.  And the 7th trumpet comes BEFORE those days of great tribulation. The events of 15:52 are the very same events of 1 Thes. 4:17, and Paul teaches in chapter 5 that the rapture comes BEFORE the day of the Lord.  (I hope you did not stop reading in chapter 4!)  So in truth, from the day of the rapture there will be about 7 years before the 70th week ends - very simply because the rapture comes before the 70th week.

Coop


daq

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #171 on: Sun Apr 03, 2011 - 02:47:06 »
I don't fight with scriptures; I believe them: when it says trump of God, why would you believe anyone else would blow it?


Do you really believe the Scripture? Ok then ...  ::smile::

BEHOLD!

Revelation 21:2-3 KJV
2. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from G-d out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of G-d is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and G-d himself shall be with them, and be their G-d.

Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV
22. But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living G-d, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to G-d the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Revelation 21:4-5 KJV
4. And G-d shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

2 Corinthians 5:16-17 KJV
16. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.



Offline lecoop

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #172 on: Sun Apr 03, 2011 - 06:03:16 »
I don't fight with scriptures; I believe them: when it says trump of God, why would you believe anyone else would blow it?


Do you really believe the Scripture? Ok then ...  ::smile::

BEHOLD!

Revelation 21:2-3 KJV
2. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from G-d out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of G-d is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and G-d himself shall be with them, and be their G-d.

Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV
22. But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living G-d, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to G-d the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Revelation 21:4-5 KJV
4. And G-d shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

2 Corinthians 5:16-17 KJV
16. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.





They are all good!  ;-)

Offline Feedmysheep

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #173 on: Sun Apr 03, 2011 - 07:12:42 »


You answered your own question: WHO's trumpet is it? Sorry, but Gabe' is not going to blow God's trumpet. If He blows a trumpet, it will be his own.

  That is not a good enough reasoning. Where does it say that the first trumpet is not of God ?
  
  Revelation 8:2 says "And I saw the seven angels who sand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them."     All the trumpets blown by the angels are trumpets of God too.

  Whoever else do the seven trumpets belong to if not to God ?

  The sounder of the trumpets is not a very good reason to insist that Paul's "last trumpet" could not be the seventh trumpet. I will look for a better reason if someone has one.  

 
Quote from: lacoop

I don't fight with scriptures; I believe them: when it says trump of God, why would you believe anyone else would blow it?
   

   Whether God is the blower or not, it is not sufficient reason to insist that Paul's mention of the last trumpet, cannot be the seventh trumpet in John's Revelation.

    The Owner of the the last trumpet Paul mentions is God. The Owner of the seven trumpets blown by the seven angels who stand before God is also God.

    So your pointing out that "the trumpet of God" proves that that cannot be the seventh trumpet, is not conclusive reasoning IMO.  

  
Quote
I understand John's chronology. I know where the rapture is in revelation, and I know that it comes before the 7th trumpet. If you would believe John, you would believe that too. When did Paul say his rapture would be? Just three verses after the classic rapture verse, Paul mentions the day of the Lord, as if that Day had some connection to the rapture. He goes on to say that while those in darkness get the sudden destruction of the first day of the Day of the Lord, WE get salvation by way of rapture, and get to live together with Him. Therefore, Paul is telling us plainly that the rapture comes BEFORE the day of the Lord. In fact, the rapture is the TRIGGER for that Day.
 

  Okay lecoop.

  We all need a firm hope. And as your brother in Christ, I do not want to give impression that I am against your firm hope.

  So, I think I will not argue about this anymore. Come Lord Jesus. I have a thread on "I Expect a Selective Rapture".  And instead of repeating, I think that thread is where I will answer questions about my expectation and hope.

   It is wonderful that our Lord comes. Let us prepare ourselves to meet our wonderful and victorious Lord Jesus.

 Agape.


daq

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Re: Jesus & The Rapture
« Reply #174 on: Sun Apr 03, 2011 - 07:42:11 »

  We all need a firm hope. And as your brother in Christ, I do not want to give impression that I am against your firm hope.

  So, I think I will not argue about this anymore. Come Lord Jesus. I have a thread on "I Expect a Selective Rapture".  And instead of repeating, I think that thread is where I will answer questions about my expectation and hope.

   It is wonderful that our Lord comes. Let us prepare ourselves to meet our wonderful and victorious Lord Jesus.

 Agape.





When you get back there perhaps you might want to answer Reply#29

Re: I Expect a Selective Rapture
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2011, 10:06:32 AM »

Not for me but for yourself ...  ::smile::

 

     
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