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Offline RB

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Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« on: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 04:59:13 »
Amo~I'll read your thread as you post, knowing you are missing the truth on "Mystery Babylon" by limiting this to the RCC.

I may start another thread so as not to interfere with your post on the Mystery Babylon and the TRUE healing of the deadly wound of the beast.

It was Christ that wounded Satan at the cross and during the little season at the end of the world, HIS WOUND will be healed so the EIGHT KINGDOM (or, the final kingdom which makes up ALL THE ONE WORLD"S POWER/government) shall make war with God and his saints.

I'll say no more until I start a counter thread on this same subject so the people can discern for themselves WHOSE deadly wound was healed~and when is it healed. We will only use the word of God, no need to use extra-biblical sources to prove BIBLE TRUTHS. Surely you should agree with this.

I do appreciate "some" of your posts, but on this subject, we disagree. I do appreciate your love and zeal for the scriptures. So, do not take this personally.
I'm bringing my post here to start another thread with the purpose of keeping from highjacking the one Amo is working on~and I'm trusting we can post together and let the readers judge for themself the truth on Mystery Babylon and its deadly wound that was healed.

Occasionally, I'll bring one of his posts here to comment on, and he can do likeness with mine. 

Offline RB

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #1 on: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 05:50:13 »
The word Babylon is in our Bibles many times, but the number is not important, knowing how many times it is there, does not shed any light on why it is there and what it means. We want to know: What does MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT mean according to God's definition? God's word is its OWN dictionary. We MUST stay in the word of God and allow the scriptures to define their own use of words and they will. The Bible WILL interpret its own scriptures by carefully comparing them with each other and allowing them to FIT TOGETHER with each other.
 
One has well said, the Bible is a "spiritual puzzle”. The spiritual workman must labor to make the scriptures interpret each other, so one can see the truth on the subject he/she is studying.

Many are like one of my grandsons. When Luke was very young (he's now at Clemson) he was putting a puzzle together that I had gotten for him. He was doing fine, until he came across one that he could not make fit where he wanted to put it; so he stood upon his feet and lifted up his leg into the air, and came down with all of his might, and slammed the piece into the place his little mind thought it went.  I said, Luke, that is not the way you do a puzzle. But many do the scriptures the same way. If it does not fit, they still force verses into their doctrine that do not fit and will never fit. A trained spiritual eye can see it so easily. For a man to have truth on any given doctrine, all verses pro and con must work together, not against each other.

We must avoid denominationalism, men's opinions, favors, the pressure of exclusion, praises of men, and other things that would hinder us from faithfully standing for the truth. No one loves standing alone among the multitudes and standing alone just to have claims of doing it. But, we must be faithful with what God has given to us and trust Him for His purpose with our life. This one thing we do know, you will never have the multitudes on the side of TRUTH, NEVER! Matthew 7:13-14

We sing the song, Babylon is fallen from Revelation 14:8 and other places in the OT.

"Hail! the day so long expected, hail! the year of full release; Zion's wall are now erected; And her watchmen publish peace. Thru our Shiloh's wide dominion, hear the trumpet loudly roar Babylon is fallen, is fallen, is fallen, Babylon is fallen to rise no more.

All her merchants stand with wonder, What is this that comes to pass? Murm'ring like the distance thunder, Crying, O alas, alas! Swell the sound, ye kings and nobles, Priest and people, rich and poor. Babylon is fallen, is fallen, is fallen, Babylon is fallen to rise no more.

Blow the trumpet in Mount Zion! Christ shall come the second time; Ruling with a rod of iron, All who now as foes combine. Babel's garments we've rejected, and our fellowship is o'er. Babylon is fallen, is fallen, is fallen, Babylon is fallen to rise no more."

THIS IS A GREAT SONG! But, who really understands WHAT they are singing?  "Thru our Shiloh's WIDE DOMINION,".........CANNOT be said to be true, UNTIL, Babylon is TRULY FALLEN. When Babylon falls to RISE NO MORE, then our Shiloh's dominion will be over ALL the earth, over every person. The knowledge of the LORD shall cover the earth, as the sea does now.

The Apostle Paul said: ".....I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the UNDERSTANDING also." 1st Corinthians 14:15  We must understand WHAT we are singing WHEN we sing songs unto our God. Also, are we not teaching one another when we are singing? Yes, we are.
Quote from: Paul
Colossians 3:16 ~"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; TEACHING and admonishing ONE ANOTHER in psalms and HYMNS and SPIRITUAL SONGS, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."
Yes, we are singing to the Lord at the same time. We must labor to sing with understanding to our Lord. May this thread on Mystery Babylon help God's children to do just that. That is: have a Biblical understanding of Mystery, Babylon the great. May the Lord of heaven and earth, use it for the good of his people.
 
Without a true understanding of this subject, a part of God's truth is missing from your Bible knowledge. It may leave you or/and your loved ones unprepared for the evil days ahead and from the sorceries used by MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT! No man lives to himself, and what he believes and practices, others with him, who ever they may be, will believe and do likewise; and if in error, they will suffer the same consequences.

May we all seek to know the true meaning of MYSTERY, BABYLON THE    GREAT. Knowing the truth here and responding as a child of God should, will prepare you for that day.

How can one heed the call of the Holy Ghost:
Quote
Revelation 18:4~"...COME OUT of her, MY PEOPLE, that ye BE NOT partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."
.....if they do not know the truth concerning Mystery, Babylon the great? It is impossible! Some may think that they have never been part of it; others may think they have come out already and do not need to heed this call; but, they may very well still be part of it, yea, a big part of it! May this thread help God's elect to know the truth, that they may heed this call that is in Revelation 18:4 and many other places in the scriptures; though said a little differently, but meaning the same as the exhortation in Revelation 18:4. 

Before we start, I will promise that we will use ONLY the scriptures in presenting our understanding of this subject. If we are going to have THE TRUTH, then we MUST use the ONLY source of truth in this world: The record of God himself, that is noted for us in the "scriptures of truth"....which the angels themselves used with Daniel.
Quote
Daniel 10:21~"I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth:" 
ANYONE who uses "EXTRA BIBLICAL" sources as a means to teach who Mystery Babylon is, is deceiving you, even though they may have no true knowledge of doing so intentionally. If they cannot use ONLY the word of God to prove their teaching, then they are using sleight and cunning craftiness that cannot stand up against the scriptures of truth.

All wise and righteous men from the day man has been upon this earth, to our Lord Jesus and his holy apostles and to this hour; have trusted in the word of God for all true history, for instruction in righteousness, for our doctrine, and for that doctrine to remain THE TRUTH, have lived by and trusted only in God's word, just as it was first given to us in our mother tongue.

We teach the scriptures to our little children that they may be wise unto salvation (in every sense that word is used from the scripture), nothing else really matters as far as this duty. (Of course, we teach them to read and other necessary things that can help them serve God and others).
Quote
2nd Timothy 3:15-17~"From a child thou hast know the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, (NOTHING ELSE IS) for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be PERFECT, (you need nothing else!) THROUGHLY FURNISHED unto ALL good works."
If this is not so, then may some man stand up and prove otherwise. I do not expect any man to step forth! If one does, bring ONLY the scriptures with you. Acts 17:28 does NOT qualify.

Men of faith live by EVERY WORD OF GOD. Words of men (history books, etc.) outside of the Bible, are NOT HELPERS for God's children interpreting the scriptures.

NOTICE what I said: INTERPRETING the scriptures; of course, there are books that can help us in other areas, but NOT interpret God’s word! By this statement, I am saying this: anything outside of the scriptures, CANNOT supply light and understanding concerning God's truth to his children. I am saying no more than this.

Truth is contained WITHIN the scriptures, NOT outside! Anything outside brought into the Bible to aid its interpretation WILL CORRUPT the truth of holy scriptures.

There are some who believe that the King James Version is the Bible for the English speaking people of this earth; BUT, those same people DO NOT BELIEVE that it CONTAINS ALL TRUTH within its pages, for the English speaking people of this world, but needs history to help us understand the truth of it!.....

...... (the book of Daniel; the book of Revelation; and other sections of the Bible; like Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; 2Thess 2; etc.).....

THAT IS A LIE from the Devil, the great enemy of ALL TRUTH, and father of ALL LIES. God's children MUST NOT fall for this lie. Our faith is in the scriptures, PERIOD! Not the scripture AND.....!

Children of God trust the scriptures for all truth. Truth is in the Bible, we must be patience and labor hard to find the truth. Proverbs chapter two should motivate us to do this. Leave the word of God, and I will assure anyone, that they will end up without God's truth on that given subject. This is an absolute truth. God's word will support us as we stand for THE BIBLE ALONE FOR ALL TRUTH! This is where we rest our faith.
 
We had to lay this foundation because there are many who bring much into their teachings from outside of the holy scriptures to convince their followers of their doctrine; especially when teaching this subject and other subjects found in the book of Revelation.
 


Online 4WD

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #2 on: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 06:11:10 »
NOTICE what I said: INTERPRETING the scriptures; of course, there are books that can help us in other areas, but NOT interpret God’s word! By this statement, I am saying this: anything outside of the scriptures, CANNOT supply light and understanding concerning God's truth to his children. I am saying no more than this.
That is a very strange thing to say. If you really believe that then why have you bothered to post this. Everything you posted here or elsewhere, except the direct quotes from scripture, is outside of scripture. The reason you post is to provide your interpretation of the scriptures, which is outside of the scriptures. Your posts are no different than the books you claim cannot help us to interpret God's word.  So then, if what you post cannot help us interpret God's word, why bother to do more than simply quote scripture?
We had to lay this foundation because there are many who bring much into their teachings from outside of the holy scriptures to convince their followers of their doctrine; especially when teaching this subject and other subjects found in the book of Revelation.
You are getting ready to bring much into your teachings from outside of the holy scriptures. The minute you post one word outside of an exact quote from scripture you are doing precisely what you are condemning.
« Last Edit: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 06:18:18 by 4WD »

Offline Amo

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #3 on: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 08:33:41 »
You are preaching to the quire of course, concerning the use of scripture to interpret itself. If I do not utilize scripture more so than most if not all on these boards, I'm right up there with any who do. Nevertheless, concerning biblical prophecy, there is the point of application which cannot be determined by prophetic utterance concerning the future, unless the subject is specifically named and identified by it. In such cases, applying the identifying marks described in scripture to the institution, government, individual, or what have you, is necessary of course. The one which most accurately fulfills or displays those identifying marks or characteristics then, being the most likely intended subject of the prophecies concerned.

Apart from this, thus far in any case, I am leaning towards 4WD's assertion. If scripture is indeed the determining factor, which it most certainly should be, you have not yet utilized this fundamental factor. Then again, you obviously have not begun scripturally addressing who BABYLON THE GERAT actually is. I'm sure you plan to use far more scripture in doing so. No offense intended, nor any taken, but I do hope you do not equate the rest of us on these boards with your grandsons frustrations and responding actions regarding his experience with a puzzle. Though I can certainly relate to such frustrations. God's word, and prophetic word, are certainly nothing to trifle with. I should hope we all realize the danger of forcing our own views or opinions upon it. Having the title of false prophet, will be a real bummer in the end when standing before God. I most certainly do not want any such thing said or to be true in any way shape or form , about myself. I await your scriptural explanation of just who or what BABYLON THE GREAT IS.

 
« Last Edit: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 08:36:18 by Amo »

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #3 on: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 08:33:41 »

Offline RB

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #4 on: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 13:33:07 »
                                                                                               WHY IS BABYLON CALLED A MYSTERY?
 
Let us now move on to learn from God's pure word, what is MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT.

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, is what its name declares: A "MYSTERY".........A Mystery in the Bible could be defined simply as~ A truth that is hidden in the scriptures by the Holy Spirit, that can ONLY be understood by DIVINE REVELATION.
Quote from: Paul
Ephesians 3:3-5~ "How that by REVELATION he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote in a few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now REVEALED unto his holy apostles and prophets BY THE SPIRIT;"
Every doctrine CONCEALED in the Old Testament, CAN find scriptures in the New Testament to help a child of God understand the doctrine he is considering; and he CAN do this by the Holy Spirit which is in him. Any outside help would be gifted men used by the Holy Spirit. But they must use only the word of God to help another saint or they cannot help them, but will only corrupt them and will be used by the devil to lead the saints into error.
Quote from: Paul
Colossians 1:26-27~ "Even the mystery (there are a few of them revealed in the New Testament-RB) which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but IS NOW made MANIFEST TO HIS SAINTS: to WHOM GOD WOULD MAKE KNOWN..."
It is only revealed by the Spirit, using the scriptures of the prophets.
Quote from: Paul
Romans 16:25-26~ "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is manifest, AND BY THE SCRIPTURES OF THE PROPHETS, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:"
Revelation of God's truth comes through the scriptures and by the SPIRIT; not history books! Not the scriptures and help from history! The rulers and leaders of the New Testament Jerusalem would do well to heed this exhortation, but we do not expect this to happen.

Offline RB

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #5 on: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 13:55:40 »
                                                                                                        THE ORIGIN OF THE NAME BABYLON       

We will not spend much time on the meaning of the name Babylon. We will not say more than what is recorded for us. We are much more concerned about the hidden meaning of MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT. We are ONLY concerned how the Holy Ghost used it.
 
In Genesis 11:1-9 we have a very brief record of the origin and the meaning of the name Babylon. The land of Shinar where the children of the earth started to build the city of Babel is the same place as the ancient city of Babylon that is mention many times from 2nd Kings to the book of Zechariah was located; (Daniel 1:2). It is mentioned nearly three hundred times. That is twice as much as Zion is mentioned, the city of God! This does not give light on the meaning of Babylon as it is used by God to hide a mystery within His word. But, it does show us the importance of the word Babylon.

As we read Genesis 11:1-9, we see that these men ........ (The Holy Spirit does not give us a name for them! The Spirit refers to them as "THEY"!) These men wanted to MAKE them a NAME, but they left off building the city, WITHOUT making for themselves a NAME! Not only did they leave off and come short of their purposes of building themselves this great city, but they also left CONFOUNDED!)  ........WITHOUT any thoughts toward the God of heaven, but had much thoughts about their persons and pleasures. They were very knowledgeable as far as this world's wisdom goes:
Quote from: MOSES
Genesis 11:6. ".......And now nothing will be restrained from them, which they imagined to do."
They imagined to do great works for themselves, to honour themselves for their great works, which they imagined to do. In the plains of the land of Shinar, there we see men, laboring to live in this world, without any knowledge of the God who created all things, including them. They had high thoughts about themselves, BUT THERE did the ALMIGHTY confound them and proved that he alone rules over all and those who exalt themselves, he is able to bring them down, and leave them in total ignorance of the most important thing and that has the highest value and for their best interest: the fear of God and knowledge of that Glorious Creator of all things; that are in heaven, in the earth and under the earth; visible and invisible; things past, present and things yet to be.

This great work that God did by confounding them, did not cause them to seek him, or even cause them to mention the name of God. They just left off and were scattered upon the face of ALL the earth; And there are they still laboring to make for themselves a great name. We will see their children in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, who is the express image of that Glorious Creator of heaven and earth.

Genesis 11:9 is the second mention of the word Babel, from which the word Babylon comes from. Its meaning is recorded for us it Genesis 11:9; Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there CONFOUND the language of all the earth:........"  They THOUGHT they were wise, BUT they were VERY CONFUSED about HOW to be wise! There are a few things that we should ponder in Genesis 10 and 11 before moving on.

What amazes me is this: First, this scattering/dividing of the children of men took place in the days of Peleg. "And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided;"............

 .......This is NOT speaking of a CATASTROPHIC event; whereby, the LAND ITSELF was divided. This thinking does not go with the flow of events in Genesis 10 and 11. The ONLY thing that Moses mentions from the statement found in Genesis 10:25 is what we read in Genesis 11:1-9! That is: the dividing of the LANGUAGE among the children of men. This is not too deep, but there are many who LOVE the literal sense in everything they read in the scriptures and CANNOT think in any other sense, so they have a catastrophic event taking place that they CANNOT prove nor could it take place, without God creating a new heaven and a new earth.

We do have his promise that he will turn to us a pure language in that day.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Zephaniah 3:9~"For THEN (after the earth is devoured with the FIRE of his jealousy, verse8) will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent."
It was divided in this sense: men were scattered upon the FACE OF THE EARTH, all of them having different languages to take with them.

Second: This may have happened with NOAH STILL LIVING or at least shortly afterward.
 
Follow me: Shem had Arphaxad two years after the flood; Arphaxad had Salah; Thirty seven after the flood (Luke said Cainan, Luke 3:36, but this is a different study for another time) Salah had Eber; Sixty seven years after the flood; Eber had Peleg, One hundred and one years after the flood. Noah lived after the flood Three hundred and fifty years; Noah lived after Peleg was born, another two hundred and fifty one years! Peleg lived after Noah, one hundred and eighty nine years.
 
Maybe Genesis 11:1-9 happened after Noah’s death, it really does not matter, BUT, this does: Men SO SOON forgot the FLOOD! I would think that the ark was STILL there to witness to them and against them! When we read Genesis 11, we wonder with amazement that the earth was full of reprobates, so soon! WHY (we know why) cannot the "FREE WILL" preachers see that apart from the POWER of God's Spirit, NO MAN WOULD EVER COME TO HIM! When the Almighty leaves men to themselves, they would never seek God; they would never have one thought toward heaven; They would LOOK to THEMSELVES as a MIGHTY HUNTER before the LORD; mighty in this or mighty in that, and no one is as mighty as me, would be their inward thoughts! Not even "that God" who thinks that he is Almighty, by sending a flood to cover the earth! Their inward thoughts were, WHO is the LORD that I should obey Him?
 
This is what we take from those two chapters, that helps us to understand our subject as we work our way through the Bible.

This is where we first hear of BABEL/BABYLON! From Genesis 10 and 11, and we learned the Holy Ghost's definition of the word Babylon; and it simply means CONFUSION.

We shall (the Lord willing) see that this perfectly describes ALL MEN who have ever lived in this world, and who are, and who yet shall live in this world WITHOUT God; by that statement, we mean, who lived without fearing, loving and submitting themselves to the very God who created the world and all things therein, including them; and giving Him glory for ALL things that they enjoy in his world.

All one needs to do, is to read their works, listen to their words, and consider their life and then you can see and understand that they are very CONFUSED. Whether they are religious or neutral or hate religion, if they are living their life according to the wisdom that is in their heart and not according to the TRUE WISDOM found only in the word of God, then a spiritual man/woman can see just how confused those folk are. There are multitudes in and out of religion that are of the great city of "SPIRITUAL BABYLON"!

The truth is: there are only TWO CITIES on this planet called earth;........ We know that there are many literal earthy cites, but there are only TWO in a TRUE spiritual sense.
 
One is Babylon........ In Babylon, that GREAT CITY; you will find a king that is over them, and his spirit works in them; his name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. He is THE angel of the bottomless pit. He is the prince and the power of the air, in this Babylon.

This king was, and is not, and yet is. This king's kingdom shall be destroyed with violence, and shall be found no more at all. The king shall go into eternal perdition, into the lake of fire, prepared for him and his angels. All of the great city of Babylon, those who make up this great city of Babylon will be cast into the lake of fire with them.

The other is Zion......In Zion, they too have a king over them. His name is: Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The prince of peace. His kingdom shall have no end! Those who are part of this city, are called, faithful, and chosen! They shall live forever with God, and shall look upon his face; the citizens of this city know him as JESUS CHRIST the Lord, king of kings, Lord of lords. They shall inherit all things; a new heaven and earth. The first heaven and earth were corrupted by its king and his children; but the mighty God of Zion shall destroy their Babylon and its king!

Let us now search the scriptures and see from them what they teach us concerning: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT....

I may not make every verse fit perfectly, but there will be so much of the picture put together, that it will be impossible to deny the truth of what we will be teaching from this thread. I will not claim perfection, but will claim TRUTH of that, which we will be presenting.
 
 Search the writings of the prophets in the Old Testament, and read them very carefully and you must confess, if you are honest with God's word, that the word Babylon when used by the prophets, was NOT always speaking of the literal ancient city that took Judah captive, during the days of Jeremiah the prophet.

Let us look at the scriptures of the prophets and see if we can determine what the Spirit of God meant when he was teaching us through holy men of God, who spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
« Last Edit: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 14:04:21 by RB »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #6 on: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 15:43:26 »
NOTICE what I said: INTERPRETING the scriptures; of course, there are books that can help us in other areas, but NOT interpret God’s word! By this statement, I am saying this: anything outside of the scriptures, CANNOT supply light and understanding concerning God's truth to his children. I am saying no more than this.
That is a very strange thing to say. If you really believe that then why have you bothered to post this. Everything you posted here or elsewhere, except the direct quotes from scripture, is outside of scripture. The reason you post is to provide your interpretation of the scriptures, which is outside of the scriptures. Your posts are no different than the books you claim cannot help us to interpret God's word.  So then, if what you post cannot help us interpret God's word, why bother to do more than simply quote scripture?
We had to lay this foundation because there are many who bring much into their teachings from outside of the holy scriptures to convince their followers of their doctrine; especially when teaching this subject and other subjects found in the book of Revelation.
You are getting ready to bring much into your teachings from outside of the holy scriptures. The minute you post one word outside of an exact quote from scripture you are doing precisely what you are condemning.
He's trying to pre-empt myself, and 3Res, and others who would explain something of Scripture by informing it with history.

Obviously, those rules only apply to others, and not himself.  That seems to be how these things always work. ::smile::

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #7 on: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 19:46:52 »
Even the very title of this post is against Revelation's own context.  Mystery Babylon in Revelation 17 was not even the one with the deadly wound that was healed.  That was the SEA BEAST in Revelation 13 which had a wound to one of its heads - and that deadly wound was not even to the entire Sea Beast, but to just one of its heads. 

The harlot in Revelation 17 riding on the back of the Scarlet Beast did not have any "heads" to be wounded.  She was not anywhere included in the context about the deadly wound that was healed on the Sea Beast of Revelation 13.  The Sea Beast of Revelation 13 and the Scarlet Beast of Revelation 17 aren't even the same beast.  And the harlot called Mystery Babylon riding the Scarlet Beast's back is not either one of those two different beasts, but a different character in and of itself.  WAAAY too much conflating going on in this post.  When the identity of Revelation's cast of characters is mixed up with each other, it confuses the whole script. 

Rather than wade through a river of commentary above on who Mystery Babylon actually was, I am duty bound to give heed to the one interpreting the vision to John when he wrote it down.  It saves us SO much trouble when we pay attention to scripture when its own context defines its own terms. 

Plain and simple.   The harlot called "Mystery Babylon" is clearly defined for us in Revelation 17:18 as "That great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth".  Scripture itself gives us its own definition of who those "kings of the earth" were.  And there aren't any of those "kings" around anymore, because those "kings of the earth" were the high priests of the land of Israel. 

 "The great city" was named in John's own terms as the city "where also our Lord was crucified" in Revelation 11:8.  This was the city of OLD JERUSALEM, which in John's days was then reigning over the "kings of the earth", or the high priests of the land of Israel.

This definition of the "kings of the earth" as being the high priests of Israel is abundantly clear from reading Psalms 2:1-2 compared with Acts 4:23-30.  We are told in that Acts 4 context that the high priest Annas and Caiphas, and all the kindred of the high priest (Acts 4:5-6) had just threatened Peter and John if they continued to preach in Jesus' name.  When the believers heard of these threatenings coming from the high priest and all his family, they recalled the prophesy of Psalms 2:1-2.  This prophecy had predicted that the "kings of the earth" and the rulers of the people would be gathered together along with the heathen Gentiles, and would then conspire against the Lord and His Anointed One.  These "kings of the earth" would agree together in their conspiratorial desire to break asunder the bands of God put upon them, and to cast away God's cords which bound them to Himself and His laws.  These "bands" and "cords" or "yoke" were not put upon the Gentiles, but upon the people of God and their rulers under the Mosaic law.  As Isaiah 63:18-19 once said of God's own people as opposed to their adversaries who had trodden down their sanctuary, "We are thine: thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by thy name."


Acts 4:29 clearly states that these "kings of the earth" and the rulers mentioned in the Psalms 2:1-2 prophecy were the ones doing this "threatening" of the disciples (which were the high priest and all his kindred along with the elders and scribes of the council).

Therefore, "Mystery Babylon" / "That great city" (which was Old Jerusalem according to John 11:8) was then reigning in those days over the "kings of the earth" which were the high priests of the land of Israel.  And since there are no longer any high priests in Israel, and haven't been ever since the close of the war in AD 70, this Revelation prophecy related to "Mystery Babylon" is LONG PAST.

In fact, ANY of Revelation's prophecies that are specifically said to include the "kings of the earth" are related to a time when there were actually high priests still in existence in Israel. 
« Last Edit: Sun Feb 13, 2022 - 20:05:57 by 3 Resurrections »

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #8 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 04:17:36 »

He's trying to pre-empt myself, and 3Res, and others who would explain something of Scripture by informing it with history.

Obviously, those rules only apply to others, and not himself.  That seems to be how these things always work. ::smile::

Jarrod

Oh, I think RB is too much like the rest of us; we all too often think our explanation, our analysis, our exegesis, of scripture is scripture.

The truth is that scripture never actually defines Mystery Babylon.  Any attempt to actually do that comes from outside of scripture.
« Last Edit: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 04:22:19 by 4WD »

Offline RB

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #9 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 05:09:25 »
Obviously, those rules only apply to others, and not himself.  That seems to be how these things always work. ::smile::
Jarrod~you should know me by now, it does apply to me~just keep reading after I have posted to see. 3 Resurrection knows me better than all of you put together, just ask him he should say the same.

Besides and even greater~this is the very method Jesus and his apostles taught us to teach others and for how we should learn to seek and trust the scriptures for THE TRUTH as it is in Jesus Christ. 

Offline RB

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #10 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 05:15:41 »
The truth is that scripture never actually defines Mystery Babylon.  Any attempt to actually do that comes from outside of scripture.
4WD, It's hard for me to believe you truly believe this~ why would I as a child of God would even think to go outside of the word of my Father in heaven to seek for His truth outside of the only source of testimony that IS TRUE that God has graciously given to us (all who are believers) to KNOW His hidden mysteries? GOD FORBID that I would do so.

Offline RB

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #11 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 05:42:04 »
Even the very title of this post is against Revelation's own context.  Mystery Babylon in Revelation 17 was not even the one with the deadly wound that was healed.  That was the SEA BEAST in Revelation 13 which had a wound to one of its heads - and that deadly wound was not even to the entire Sea Beast, but to just one of its heads. 
Without getting too far sidetrack just allow me to address this and I WILL. Babylon~the beast~and the eight kingdoms and the mark of the beast has been here from the beginning! The two cities~ Babylon and Zion have been at war since Cain and Abel~this is a mystery hidden in the word of God from the beginning~but step by step God has unfolded his truth to his children, even though many righteous men and women have not seen the whole spiritual puzzle~so we must patiently bear with our brethren on such subjects.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 13:11-17~"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Even angels desire to look into these things~and guess where they look? That which is noted in the scriptures of TRUTH.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
1st Peter 1:10-12~Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
Quote from: THE ANGEL OF GOD
Daniel 10:21~"But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince."
3 Resurrections, you use to stand me on this many years ago, but you left and I'm still here.
« Last Edit: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 05:46:05 by RB »

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #12 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 05:52:13 »
4WD, It's hard for me to believe you truly believe this~ why would I as a child of God would even think to go outside of the word of my Father in heaven to seek for His truth outside of the only source of testimony that IS TRUE that God has graciously given to us (all who are believers) to KNOW His hidden mysteries? GOD FORBID that I would do so.
RB,
Go back up to your reply#5; you posted a couple of lines of actual quotes from the scriptures.  Everything else is from YOU and that is outside of the word of God.  That doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong, but that does mean that it is not actually God's word; it is your word.

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #13 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 06:26:58 »
                                                                                                          THE PROPHET ISAIAH AND BABYLON

So, let us start with the OT prophets and let them tell us whom God's word reveals is Mystery Babylon.
 
ISAIAH 13...The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see. There are many things within this chapter that will not allow one to LIMIT it to the literal city of Babylon, or, to any literal city that 3 Resurrections may believe it is.

First, and MOST important point that makes us look PAST the literal city of Babylon in Isaiah's day is found in verse 11 or any city as far as that goes..."And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, (destroying a literal city will not cause pride to cease, but punishing the world by total destruction will cause pride to cease) and will lay low the naughtiness of the terrible.”

This warning is to Babylon, (verse 1) who Isaiah refers to as "the" world and the wicked in it. That's not my interpretation but the Holy Ghost speaking through Isaiah. The world without God and wicked therein ARE Babylon that will be destroyed.

This Babylon mentioned in Isaiah 13 will never be inhabited again, (verses 19-20) We know that Babylon was still a literal place during the days of the apostles. 1st Peter 5:13.
 
The overall message in Isaiah 13 is the FINAL destruction of Babylon, whom the prophet reveals to us is the WORLD and the wicked. Whatever may be in this chapter that may allow one to try to make Babylon mean the literal city of the prophet's day, can be explained by giving the sense that the Spirit would support in other scriptures. The only one that I can see, would be the words, "the Medes;” Yes, God used that nation to defeat and over throw the literal city of Babylon, but not to the same degree as it is spoken of in this chapter. God is using that name to represent those who shall destroy Babylon in that day. The Lord Jesus and his army that follow him back to this earth, at that day.
 
ISAIAH 14....Here we find a PROVERB (The prophets in the Old Testament spoke MOST of the time in this manner) against the KING OF BABYLON. When we carefully look at this proverb and consider it with God's open word before us, then we know that it is not speaking of any earthly king that has reigned in the literal city of Babylon. Verses 12-15 should remove any questions one may have.

Also, the children of Babylon mentioned in verses 21-22, ARE NOT the literal children of ancient Babylon. We KNOW this by verses 26-27:
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"This is the purpose that is purposed upon the WHOLE EARTH: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon ALL THE NATIONS. For the LORD of host hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?"

The king of Babylon (Lucifer!) shall became like all of the rest of those whom he has deceived. (verse 10): He shall be brought DOWN to hell. (verse 15)

ISAIAH 21: This chapter has a few proverbs within this part of Isaiah's prophecy; there is one that we will only look at and consider it when we see it again in Jeremiah 51:8 and in Revelation 14:8; 18:2.
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"And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answer and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and ALL the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground."
We understand what this proverb is teaching us by others scriptures in the New Testament. WE would NOT know, without New Testament revelation from the apostle John's writings. We will consider them when we get to them.

Before we finish this paper, we will give you many verses from the Old Testament, that does cover many different doctrines, and will prove to anyone who is honest with the holy scriptures, that without the revelation of the New Testament, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to know what the prophets were talking about in their writings.
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ISAIAH 46:1~"Bel boweth down, Nebo stoopeth, their idols were upon the beasts, and upon the cattle: your carriages were heavy loaden; they are a burden to the weary beast."
This is a proverb by the prophet that we will incorporate when we come to others verses speaking about the idols of Babylon, that were abomination to the God of heaven, and, that was the cause of Babylon's total desolation. The Babylon in Revelation chapter 17 and the Babylon in chapter 18, are FULL of IDOLS.

ISAIAH 47..The Prophet is very bold with his words recorded within this chapter toward one he calls: O VIRGIN daughter of BABYLON! (Verse one)

There are too many statements within these verses to even think that it could be speaking of the literal city of Babylon.

The proud spirit of this Babylon in Isaiah 47, is the SAME spirit we see in Babylon of Revelation 18. Compare the two:

Isaiah 47:5".....THE LADY of kingdoms.".......Isaiah 47:7..... "And thou saidst, I SHALL be a lady for EVER:" Isaiah 47:8..... "Therefore hear now this, thou that art given TO PLEASURES, that sayest in thine heart, I AM, and NONE ELSE beside ME; I shall NOT sit as a widow, neither SHALL I know the loss of children."  Isaiah 47:9..." BUT (saith the Almighty) these two things SHALL come to thee in a MOMENT in ONE DAY, the loss of children, and widowhood: they SHALL come upon thee in their PERFECTION (total destruction) for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments." THIS WORLD has abundance of them, as we will see in Revelation 18!

Isaiah 47:10-11..Read them carefully, please. " .......desolation shall come upon thee SUDDENLY, which thou shalt not know."  "......FROM THY YOUTH" She was ONCE a virgin daughter when the most high created her, but sin entered into her; now, her wisdom and knowledge hath perverted her. The "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT" has been in the world since the garden of Eden......FROM THY YOUTH!

Isaiah 47:14-15.."Behold, they (the multitude of counsels in Babylon-v13) shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them. they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it. Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast laboured, even thy MERCHANTS, from thy youth: they shall WANDER every one to his quarter; NONE SHALL SAVE THEE." We will see more in Revelation 18 when we get there. 

Isaiah 48....There are a few short proverbs that cover a few things in this chapter. Babylon is mentioned in two of them by it’s name and in others by their deeds.

Isaiah 48:14.."....he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans." ~The only Babylon that is on the prophet's thoughts would be: the Babylon that is this world and the things that are in the world. I know that by what is in verse 20: "Go ye FORTH of Babylon, FLEE ye from the Chaldeans........." This SAME command is founded in Revelation 18:4; which we will consider later, when we arrive there. The New Testament USE OF the word....... (without which, we would not know) ..... tells us HOW we SHOULD UNDERSTAND the sense of the word Babylon, as the Spirit used the word many times over in the old Testament. We DO NOT speculate or use "Extra Biblical" help to try to figure the meaning of MYSTERY BABYLON, and leaving our hearers AT OUR MERCY. We want to leave them trusting ONLY the scriptures for truth, not our knowledge of things outside of the scriptures of TRUTH. Most of that in this world that is outside of the scriptures will perish with this world at that day; will perish as useless, corrupt materials; BUT, the word of God will endure for ever. It must, because it is the truth, and truth cannot be destroyed.

WHOM shall a child of God trust: the man that puts on a good show and removes ALL warnings of God's judgments from their followers? or the man who said: As the LORD liveth, WHAT the LORD saith unto to me, THAT WILL I SPEAK! 2Kings 22:7-28......."Hear thou therefore the WORD OF THE LORD." (verse 19)

Ye be the judge, using only the Bible, and not your emotions, OR your place in the synagogue! John 9:22; 12:42 OR, any other thing that may cause you to go against the truth. ONE DAY, it will be ONLY you and the Lord Jesus Christ looking eye to eye; I can promise you that you  would love to have this day back again, to do it HIS WAY and NOT your way. WHOM shall we follow? As for me and my house, we shall follow ONLY the scriptures! And those men and women who follow ONLY the word of God.

Jeremiah next....RB

Offline Amo

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #14 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 07:51:38 »
Quote
Revelation of God's truth comes through the scriptures and by the SPIRIT; not history books! Not the scriptures and help from history! The rulers and leaders of the New Testament Jerusalem would do well to heed this exhortation, but we do not expect this to happen.

The holy scriptures demonstrate and prove the above assertion to be false, being themselves recorded history for the exact purpose of revelation. This is apart of course from common sense, which dictates that events which transpire fulfilling the details of God’s prophecies, do in fact become historical confirmations of exactly that. The fulfillment of God’s prophecies. Denying this seems somewhat silly, does it not. Properly identifying historical events therefore, which fulfill God’s prophetic interpretations, is a crucial part of properly understanding biblical prophecy. As scripture itself testifies concerning the same.

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Mat 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. 14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: 15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Mat 2:19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee: 23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

Mat 4:12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; 13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: 14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

Mat 8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever. 15 And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them. 16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: 17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Mat 12:15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all; 16 And charged them that they should not make him known: 17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. 19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. 20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. 21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Mat 21:1 And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples, 2 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. 3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them. 4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, 5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. 6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, 7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. 8 And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way. 9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest. 10 And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this? 11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Mat 27:32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross. 33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, 34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. 35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.


So we see from scripture, not only that historical events are a crucial element of prophetic fulfillment and understanding, but also that the Spirit of God is involved in bringing these events about. Not to mention, seeing that they are recorded, that His people may not be in the dark. But rather prophetically informed unto edification, witness, and the glory of God. All of this of course of necessity being directed by the Spirit of God Himself, as the enemy of all souls strives to confuse matters with unending false interpretations of biblical prophecy as well. Scripture itself demonstrates the historicist aspect of interpreting biblical prophecy, no doubt as the example for us.

I will examine and respond to your other posts aa time affords.

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #15 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 08:55:37 »
The holy scriptures demonstrate and prove the above assertion to be false, being themselves recorded history for the exact purpose of revelation. This is apart of course from common sense, which dictates that events which transpire fulfilling the details of God’s prophecies, do in fact become historical confirmations of exactly that. The fulfillment of God’s prophecies. Denying this seems somewhat silly, does it not. Properly identifying historical events therefore, which fulfill God’s prophetic interpretations, is a crucial part of properly understanding biblical prophecy. As scripture itself testifies concerning the same.
Amo, you truly are saying no more than what I believe and teach. The final analysis is scriptures interpret scripture and then they yield to us THE TRUTH. Look at the scriptures you presented and it becomes quite obvious you are actually supporting my position. Your post is going in a circle and coming right back to what I'm saying.
Quote from: Amo on: Today at 07:51:38
So we see from scripture, not only that historical events are a crucial element of prophetic fulfillment and understanding, but also that the Spirit of God is involved in bringing these events about. Not to mention, seeing that they are recorded, that His people may not be in the dark. But rather prophetically informed unto edification, witness, and the glory of God. All of this of course of necessity being directed by the Spirit of God Himself, as the enemy of all souls strives to confuse matters with unending false interpretations of biblical prophecy as well. Scripture itself demonstrates the historicist aspect of interpreting biblical prophecy, no doubt as the example for us.
"not only that are a crucial element of prophetic fulfillment and understanding"~historical events within the scriptures is exactly what I believe and teach.

"All of this of course of necessity being directed by the Spirit of God Himself"~okay, I agree, so, I ask you............. what is the purpose of your post?

Limiting the literal city of earthly Jerusalem during the days of Christ to Mystery Babylon, (  3 Resurrections )  or, to the RCC false sect ( a host of sects ) ~does not come by comparing scriptures with scriptures, but is a force teaching in order to divert men from the truth as revealed in the scriptures, by following the flow of the revelation from OT prophets to NT apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. 

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #16 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 09:20:52 »
RB, your extensive commentary is utterly worthless if you cannot supply the particular verse which says that Mystery Babylon has a head which receives a deadly wound.  Where is this verse in Revelation? It's not there.   You are concocting this theory out of pieced-together supposition.

It is the SEA BEAST in Revelation 13 with one of its 10 heads that receives the deadly wound to that one head.  Mystery Babylon of Revelation 17 has NO HEADS at all.  Let alone one head that is wounded.  You are re-inventing John's dialogue at your own whim.  This is not worthy of you.

You have brought up Isaiah 13:11 before as some kind of proof that Mystery Babylon equals the wicked of the world since the Fall.  The ancient empire of Babylon was the context of Isaiah 13:11, and at that time, God had indeed given the entire known world into Nebuchadnezzar's control as being "a king of kings" that Daniel had called him in Daniel 2:37.   Of course, that world-wide empire with the wicked within it was brought to destruction in one night under Cyrus's nighttime attack.  God said He was going to use the MEDES to accomplish this destruction: an accomplished historical record in scripture.   But the utter destruction of the entire empire of ancient Babylon is not the same as Revelation telling us about a deadly wound to only one of the heads of the Sea Beast which became healed.

The Sea Beast is NOT Mystery Babylon.  They are two totally different characters in John's narrative.  You are blinded on this point, RB.
« Last Edit: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 09:23:49 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline RB

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #17 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 09:21:27 »
                                                                                                                      THE PROPHET JEREMIAH AND BABYLON

JEREMIAH 25...In this chapter Jeremiah was commanded to take the wine cup of God's fury from God's hand, and cause all nations to whom God would send him, to drink it. He started with Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and then to the rest. (1st Peter 4:17)

Jeremiah said many things concerning Babylon in terms of eternal reproaches. We know that this was not fulfilled. Babylon was reduced to a "state of subjection" by the Medes and Persians, yet the city itself remained safe, even until the days of the apostles. Do you think that Jeremiah exceeded the limit of truth in this chapter about his prophecy of PERPETUAL DESOLATION toward Babylon?

We know that the Spirit working through this faithful prophet had another BABYLON in mind. There are many things within this chapter that allows us to know "the mystery" that is hidden in the words of the prophet Jeremiah.
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Jeremiah 25:10..."Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of he bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candles."
These exact words are found in Revelation 18:22-23! The reason why is because both places are speaking on the SAME subject. There is no other way to interpret these dark sayings/proverbs of the old Testament prophets.

Jeremiah 25:14 is a verse that would be impossible to interpret without the New Testament.
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"For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to their works of their own hands."
There is a verse in the New Testament that can give light on this verse:
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Revelation 21:24~"And the NATIONS of them which ARE SAVED shall walk in the light of it: and THE KINGS (these kings ARE GREAT!) of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."
The nations of this present world WILL BE DESTROYED and their kingdoms shall be given to the saints of the most High, and they shall serve themselves of them! When the most High shall recompense them according to their deeds. Daniel 7:18,22,27
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   Daniel 7:17~ "But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and posses the kingdom for ever, EVEN FOR EVER AND EVER."
Jeremiah 25....The chapter overall is last day punishment for the wicked, which is, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT.
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Jeremiah 25: 29 "For I will call for a sword upon ALL the inhabitants of the EARTH, saith the LORD of hosts."
  Verse 30.."Therefore prophesy thou against them (the earth) all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against ALL THE INHABITANTS of the EARTH."

Verse 33.."And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: and they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground." There is more in this chapter where Babylon is mentioday to the end of the world that will force you to look past Jeremiah's day.

JEREMIAH 50.... This is a powerful chapter! A man that is enlightened by the Spirit of the living God will see that there is no doubt that Jeremiah the prophet, is teaching about a Babylon that was NOT in his day. To what extent he understood what he wrote, we do not know. He wrote AS he WAS MOVED by the Spirit of God. God who knows the END from the beginning, knew his purposes against Babylon. There are much within this chapter to convince a child of God, who Babylon is.

Verse 8.."Remove OUT OF the mist of Babylon......" Again we see this command that we will see again in Revelation 18:4. We will consider that verse when we arrive in the book of Revelation.

Verse 15...We read that her foundations are FALLEN, her walls are thrown DOWN: for it IS the vengeance of the LORD. Read Revelation 14:8

Verses 15 and 29, Both say this: "Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let NONE thereof escape (and they will not!) recompense her according to her work; according to all that she hath done. do unto her: for she hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy ONE of Israel." Read Revelation 18:6

Verses 13 and 23..."How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations! (nations of the new heaven and new earth)

"because of the wrath of the LORD it shall not be inhabited, but it shall be WHOLLY DESOLATE: every one that goeth by Babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues." Read Revelation 17:16; 18:19.
 
Babylon is a "land of graven images,'' and they are mad upon their idols! Jeremiah 50:38
 
This describes our world in our day so perfectly.

Jeremiah chapter 50 tells who will destroy Babylon: In verses 3, 9, 41. most of the chapter speak of Babylon's destruction.

"For out of the NORTH there cometh up a nation against her which shall make her land desolate..."
"For, lo, I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the NORTH country......"
"Behold a people shall come from the NORTH and a GREAT NATION, and MANY KINGS shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth."
Jeremiah 50:42.. They shall hold the bow and lance; they are cruel, and will not shew mercy: their voice shall roar like the sea, and they ride upon horses every one put in array, like a man to the battle, against thee, O daughter of Babylon."

There is only one great nation that lives on the side of the north that all of them are kings and all will be riding upon horses at that day, that will shew NO MERCY, when Babylon is destroyed!  That Holy Nation that Jesus Christ is King. Revelation 19. "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion." Psalm 2:6  "Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, ON THE SIDES OF THE NORTH, the city of the GREAT KING." Psalm 48:2

No wonder the prophet Jeremiah in the very next verse said this:

"The king of Babylon (the devil) hath heard the report of them, and his hands waxed feeble: anguish took hold of him, and pangs as a woman in travail." Jeremiah 50:43

JEREMIAH 51.....There are many saying in this chapter that will help a serious student of God's word to see the truth concerning which Babylon the prophet Jeremiah is speaking about. This secret should begin to be clearly seen by the time we finish with this chapter.

Verse 3:...This Babylon's host shall be UTTERLY destroyed.

Verse 6...Is mentioned several times in the scriptures, Revelation 18:4 being the last time.
 
Verse 7... is mentioned in Revelation 17:4 which we will consider at that time.

Verse 8..."Babylon is SUDDENLY fallen and destroyed."

In 1st Thessalonians 5:3.."For when they shall say, Peace and safety; THEN SUDDEN destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon woman with child; (see Jeremiah 50:43) and they shall not escape."

Verse 13.."O thou that dwellest upon many waters,....

(And there came one of the angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that SITTETH UPON MANY WATERS:" Revelation 17:1...the many waters are people of ALL NATIONS of THIS WORLD!)

 ...."abundant in treasures"... (for in one hour SO GREAT RICHES is come to nought. Revelation 18:17) .... Still in verse 13, we read: "thine END IS COME and the measure of thy covetousness" (also, verse 33) In Revelation 16:19 we read:
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"And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations FELL: and great Babylon came in REMEMBRANCE before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."
When the LORD of hosts does give unto Babylon the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath, he will use as his battle axe and weapons of war, his people, called Israel and Judah or Jacob or Zion in many places of the prophets. See Jeremiah 51:5, 19-24

Verse 20..The LORD of host using his battle and weapons of war would break in pieces the NATIONS and destroy KINGDOMS; not just ONE literal nation of ancient Babylon.

Verse 25..Jeremiah's Babylon destroyest all the earth. According to Revelation 18:23, by SORCERIES did John's Babylon deceive ALL nations.

Back to Jeremiah 51:25 where we read that the LORD will make Babylon a "burnt mountain" or that he will destroyed the kingdom of Babylon with fire. See 2Peter 3:7-12

Verse 35..."The violence done to me and to my flesh be upon Babylon, shall the inhabitant of Zion say; and my blood upon the inhabitants of Chaldea shall Jerusalem say."
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Revelation 6:10 ~"And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long O LORD, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"
"THEM THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH"..... THIS IS WHO MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT IS!

THEY have shed the blood of the saints. We agree that MORE blood has been shed by the WHORE of Babylon; BUT, the kings of the earth and their people (NON RELIGIONIST) have as well. BOTH make up MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT; we will see this when we get into Revelation 17 and 18..

Jeremiah 51:41..."How is Sheshack taken! and how is the praise of the WHOLE EARTH (because it covers the whole earth) SURPRISED! how is Babylon become an astonishment among the nations."

"And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so THAT DAY come upon you unawares. For AS A SNARE shall it come on ALL them that dwell on the FACE of the WHOLE EARTH." Luke 21:34-35

Jeremiah 51:44-45 is mentioned again and will be again before we are finished.

"MY PEOPLE, go ye OUT OF the mist of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD." Jeremiah 51:45  Verse 47 and 48.."Then the heaven and the earth, and all that therein, shall sing for Babylon: (this is world wide joy) for the spoiler shall come unto her from the NORTH, saith the LORD. As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so AT BABYLON shall fall the slain of ALL THE EARTH.

This is TOO plain of revelation from (verses 47-48) God's word to reject! EVERY word as it first came to us in our language is very important; and we have faith in God that every word is just as he first gave it to the apostles and prophets. Allow any man to change ONE word of it, then you have allowed your Bible to be corrupted. God HAS preserved his word from the hands of wicked men forever! Psalm 12:6-7 Do your part as lovers of the scriptures, and reject other translations of the Bible in our language. We need EVERY word as it was first given to preserve the truths therein.

The Babylon that the holy prophet is speaking of, covers all the earth. It is upon many waters. Her destruction is sure, just as sure as the sure mercies of David to God's elect. Read carefully the remaining verses of Jeremiah 51:52-58..

"Thus saith the LORD of host; The broad walls of Babylon shall be utterly broken, and her high gates shall be BURNED WITH FIRE...." The Prophets of old wrote in proverbs to people and to nations to whom they were sent; their words had a spiritual truth concealed by the words written; those spiritual truths concealed in their writings are revealed in the New Testament to God's saints. That is the method that God chose to hide truth from men, since the foundation of the world. It is totally effective!! The wise of this world apart from God's Spirit could NEVER know those truth hidden within the Holy scriptures.  Read Matthew 13:10-17.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #18 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 09:29:52 »
RB, this is another waste of your time in your discussion of Jeremiah if you cannot supply the verse that says Mystery Babylon receives a deadly wound to a non-existent head which then becomes healed.  Where is such a verse?  THERE IS NONE.  John's Revelation is very clear that it is the SEA BEAST receiving this deadly wound to one of its heads - NOT Mystery Babylon.  Stick to the context please.

You should spare yourself the effort of copying all this material that offers no proof of Mystery Babylon being the one receiving the deadly wound.  Your arguments are going nowhere.

Offline Amo

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #19 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 14:40:33 »
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        THE PROPHET ISAIAH AND BABYLON

So, let us start with the OT prophets and let them tell us whom God's word reveals is Mystery Babylon.
 
ISAIAH 13...The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see. There are many things within this chapter that will not allow one to LIMIT it to the literal city of Babylon, or, to any literal city that 3 Resurrections may believe it is.

First, and MOST important point that makes us look PAST the literal city of Babylon in Isaiah's day is found in verse 11 or any city as far as that goes..."And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, (destroying a literal city will not cause pride to cease, but punishing the world by total destruction will cause pride to cease) and will lay low the naughtiness of the terrible.”

This warning is to Babylon, (verse 1) who Isaiah refers to as "the" world and the wicked in it. That's not my interpretation but the Holy Ghost speaking through Isaiah. The world without God and wicked therein ARE Babylon that will be destroyed.

This Babylon mentioned in Isaiah 13 will never be inhabited again, (verses 19-20) We know that Babylon was still a literal place during the days of the apostles. 1st Peter 5:13.
 
The overall message in Isaiah 13 is the FINAL destruction of Babylon, whom the prophet reveals to us is the WORLD and the wicked. Whatever may be in this chapter that may allow one to try to make Babylon mean the literal city of the prophet's day, can be explained by giving the sense that the Spirit would support in other scriptures. The only one that I can see, would be the words, "the Medes;” Yes, God used that nation to defeat and over throw the literal city of Babylon, but not to the same degree as it is spoken of in this chapter. God is using that name to represent those who shall destroy Babylon in that day. The Lord Jesus and his army that follow him back to this earth, at that day.


Thus far, I have no problem with your interpretation, as I understand from scripture as well, that Babylon of the new covenant era in particular, will encompass all of the wicked in this world before Christ’s return. Nevertheless I will point out my understanding that the Revelation of Jesus Christ, and the testimony of the Apostles have added greater light and detail to the subject of Babylon the great. Which is not to be ignored or negated by old testament prophecies concerning the same. The Revelation of Jesus Christ in particular, is the primary guiding factor in determining the rest of biblical prophecy concerning Babylon and very much more. IN that especially of course -

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

 
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ISAIAH 14....Here we find a PROVERB (The prophets in the Old Testament spoke MOST of the time in this manner) against the KING OF BABYLON. When we carefully look at this proverb and consider it with God's open word before us, then we know that it is not speaking of any earthly king that has reigned in the literal city of Babylon. Verses 12-15 should remove any questions one may have.

Also, the children of Babylon mentioned in verses 21-22, ARE NOT the literal children of ancient Babylon. We KNOW this by verses 26-27:
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"This is the purpose that is purposed upon the WHOLE EARTH: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon ALL THE NATIONS. For the LORD of host hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand

 is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?"


The king of Babylon (Lucifer!) shall became like all of the rest of those whom he has deceived. (verse 10): He shall be brought DOWN to hell. (verse 15)

ISAIAH 21: This chapter has a few proverbs within this part of Isaiah's prophecy; there is one that we will only look at and consider it when we see it again in Jeremiah 51:8 and in Revelation 14:8; 18:2.
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"And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answer and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and ALL the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground."

We understand what this proverb is teaching us by others scriptures in the New Testament. WE would NOT know, without New Testament revelation from the apostle John's writings. We will consider them when we get to them.

Before we finish this paper, we will give you many verses from the Old Testament, that does cover many different doctrines, and will prove to anyone who is honest with the holy scriptures, that without the revelation of the New Testament, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to know what the prophets were talking about in their writings.
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ISAIAH 46:1~"Bel boweth down, Nebo stoopeth, their idols were upon the beasts, and upon the cattle: your carriages were heavy loaden; they are a burden to the weary beast."

This is a proverb by the prophet that we will incorporate when we come to others verses speaking about the idols of Babylon, that were abomination to the God of heaven, and, that was the cause of Babylon's total desolation. The Babylon in Revelation chapter 17 and the Babylon in chapter 18, are FULL of IDOLS.

ISAIAH 47..The Prophet is very bold with his words recorded within this chapter toward one he calls: O VIRGIN daughter of BABYLON! (Verse one)

There are too many statements within these verses to even think that it could be speaking of the literal city of Babylon.

The proud spirit of this Babylon in Isaiah 47, is the SAME spirit we see in Babylon of Revelation 18. Compare the two:

Isaiah 47:5".....THE LADY of kingdoms.".......Isaiah 47:7..... "And thou saidst, I SHALL be a lady for EVER:" Isaiah 47:8..... "Therefore hear now this, thou that art given TO PLEASURES, that sayest in thine heart, I AM, and NONE ELSE beside ME; I shall NOT sit as a widow, neither SHALL I know the loss of children."  Isaiah 47:9..." BUT (saith the Almighty) these two things SHALL come to thee in a MOMENT in ONE DAY, the loss of children, and widowhood: they SHALL come upon thee in their PERFECTION (total destruction) for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments." THIS WORLD has abundance of them, as we will see in Revelation 18!

Isaiah 47:10-11..Read them carefully, please. " .......desolation shall come upon thee SUDDENLY, which thou shalt not know."  "......FROM THY YOUTH" She was ONCE a virgin daughter when the most high created her, but sin entered into her; now, her wisdom and knowledge hath perverted her. The "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT" has been in the world since the garden of Eden......FROM THY YOUTH!

Isaiah 47:14-15.."Behold, they (the multitude of counsels in Babylon-v13) shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them. they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it. Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast laboured, even thy MERCHANTS, from thy youth: they shall WANDER every one to his quarter; NONE SHALL SAVE THEE." We will see more in Revelation 18 when we get there. 

Isaiah 48....There are a few short proverbs that cover a few things in this chapter. Babylon is mentioned in two of them by it’s name and in others by their deeds.

Isaiah 48:14.."....he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans." ~The only Babylon that is on the prophet's thoughts would be: the Babylon that is this world and the things that are in the world. I know that by what is in verse 20: "Go ye FORTH of Babylon, FLEE ye from the Chaldeans........." This SAME command is founded in Revelation 18:4; which we will consider later, when we arrive there. The New Testament USE OF the word....... (without which, we would not know) ..... tells us HOW we SHOULD UNDERSTAND the sense of the word Babylon, as the Spirit used the word many times over in the old Testament. We DO NOT speculate or use "Extra Biblical" help to try to figure the meaning of MYSTERY BABYLON, and leaving our hearers AT OUR MERCY. We want to leave them trusting ONLY the scriptures for truth, not our knowledge of things outside of the scriptures of TRUTH. Most of that in this world that is outside of the scriptures will perish with this world at that day; will perish as useless, corrupt materials; BUT, the word of God will endure for ever. It must, because it is the truth, and truth cannot be destroyed.

WHOM shall a child of God trust: the man that puts on a good show and removes ALL warnings of God's judgments from their followers? or the man who said: As the LORD liveth, WHAT the LORD saith unto to me, THAT WILL I SPEAK! 2Kings 22:7-28......."Hear thou therefore the WORD OF THE LORD." (verse 19)

Ye be the judge, using only the Bible, and not your emotions, OR your place in the synagogue! John 9:22; 12:42 OR, any other thing that may cause you to go against the truth. ONE DAY, it will be ONLY you and the Lord Jesus Christ looking eye to eye; I can promise you that you  would love to have this day back again, to do it HIS WAY and NOT your way. WHOM shall we follow? As for me and my house, we shall follow ONLY the scriptures! And those men and women who follow ONLY the word of God.

Jeremiah next....RB


You are preaching to the quire again RB. You have never seen me write anything contradicting the above scriptures, only accepting the greater detail and understanding revealed about Babylon in the new testament Scriptures. Babylon is the corruption of the truth, especially relating to God’s people of the old covenant, and His church of the new covenant. The corruption of God’s revealed true religion, in regards to the salvation of humanity, as revealed in belief and practice among His chosen people. The corruption started shortly after God instituted the plan of salvation in types and symbols for His children. As demonstrated between the offerings of Cain and Abel.

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. 2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. 13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

I have expounded upon the above on these boards before. At the following link, chapter 9 on thE page entitled SUNDAY, A SIGN, I examine this issue in greater detail.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/seventh-day-adventist-forum-(sda)/sabbath-sunday-and-the-abomination-of-desolation/

In the worship and offerings of Cain and Abel, we see the underlying principles of God’s true religion in this world, as opposed to the evil’s one’s counterfeits. The Church of Rome itself being the evil one’s masterpiece of deception during this new covenant era. Not alone, but identified as the original and originator of all the others during this new covenant era.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Our main object of disagreement, is concerning the details of new testament prophetic utterance which reveal more specifically, exactly what institution during the new covenant is the actual MOTHER, of all others. You will not allow for historically recorded or present realities, in identifying this MOTHER of all other false religions of the new covenant. I will.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #20 on: Mon Feb 14, 2022 - 15:34:36 »
Jarrod~you should know me by now, it does apply to me~just keep reading after I have posted to see. 3 Resurrection knows me better than all of you put together, just ask him he should say the same.
I know you have good intentions.  Bad hermeneutics, but good intentions.

Besides and even greater~this is the very method Jesus and his apostles taught us to teach others and for how we should learn to seek and trust the scriptures for THE TRUTH as it is in Jesus Christ.
It really isn't.  Jesus makes so many references to what you call 'extra-Biblical material' that I couldn't list them all if I tried.  All the parables are couched in language that comes straight out of intertestamental books.

Jarrod

Offline RB

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #21 on: Tue Feb 15, 2022 - 05:15:52 »
RB, this is another waste of your time in your discussion of Jeremiah if you cannot supply the verse that says Mystery Babylon receives a deadly wound to a non-existent head which then becomes healed.  Where is such a verse?  THERE IS NONE.  John's Revelation is very clear that it is the SEA BEAST receiving this deadly wound to one of its heads - NOT Mystery Babylon.  Stick to the context please.

You should spare yourself the effort of copying all this material that offers no proof of Mystery Babylon being the one receiving the deadly wound.  Your arguments are going nowhere.


Couple of things~the material is MINE every single word that I put together in 2009~here is the front page of my material :

" 18 February 2009
Page  1 OF 77

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT Revelation 17:5: By D. W. "Red" Baker; Introduction to this mystery called: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT CITY".......



I wrote this as I was leaving the church of Greenville for the last time never to return since JRC was a half-baked preterist which you took and went even farther than he was going. I wrote this so I would have a record of exactly what I believe and why I could longer be part of a group that rubber-stamped most of God's word FULLFILLED 70 A.D.! You are now about 98 % to full preteristism~ which doctrine I detest as heresy and will fight it as long as God gives me the power to do so.

This work was put together over a few months~I even got up in the middle of the night when God took sleep away from me and gave me thoughts to add to my small little paper. I made notes after notes and then organized them all into this small booklet that I have only given to a few folks. So, not a word from any other person, that I can remember.
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RB, this is another waste of your time in your discussion of Jeremiah if you cannot supply the verse that says Mystery Babylon receives a deadly wound to a non-existent head which then becomes healed.  Where is such a verse?  THERE IS NONE. 
PLEASE give me time~I'm not going to post all which I have but will cover most of the most important scriptures. I'll let God show me my labors are in vain, I know folks like you hope they are~you remind me of Sanballat, and Tobiah who labored to stop Nehemiah from doing the work God gave him to do~You should know the story well, maybe you might want to read up on it to make sure you are not following them, it sure looks like you are.
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 15, 2022 - 05:25:31 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #22 on: Tue Feb 15, 2022 - 05:21:24 »
I have two doctor's appointments today so I'll wait to answer posts or to post more. RB 

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #23 on: Tue Feb 15, 2022 - 05:48:48 »
Thus far, I have no problem with your interpretation, as I understand from scripture as well, that Babylon of the new covenant era in particular, will encompass all of the wicked in this world before Christ’s return.
Amo, I agree that you and I on many scriptures will be in agreement~ even though we will disagree.

You want to limit Mystery Babylon to Catholicism~ and God's word is much broader in its application concerning Mystery Babylon. Babylon is a CITY not literal but spiritual in nature~and this city has its RELGLION and its COMMERCE/ENTERTAINMENTS.

Revelation 17 addresses its false religion with the RCC/EOC as its primary source of religion while the Pentecostals have quickly caught up with them.

Revelation 18 addresses its COMMERCE and ENTERTAINMENTS all of which its king~the devil himself has invented to DECEIVE those that will give their heart, soul, and mind in serving him and in order to enjoy these things one must have the mark of the beast to buy and sell OR to live and enjoy these things which this Babylon will create in the latter days under its king.

3 Resurrections teaches the devil and his little demons were destroyed in 70 A.D.  Wonder whose behind that teaching that wants folks to believe he no longer is present in this world working in his children?  ::pondering::

Offline Amo

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #24 on: Tue Feb 15, 2022 - 05:58:45 »
Amo, you truly are saying no more than what I believe and teach. The final analysis is scriptures interpret scripture and then they yield to us THE TRUTH. Look at the scriptures you presented and it becomes quite obvious you are actually supporting my position. Your post is going in a circle and coming right back to what I'm saying. "not only that are a crucial element of prophetic fulfillment and understanding"~historical events within the scriptures is exactly what I believe and teach.

"All of this of course of necessity being directed by the Spirit of God Himself"~okay, I agree, so, I ask you............. what is the purpose of your post?

Limiting the literal city of earthly Jerusalem during the days of Christ to Mystery Babylon, (  3 Resurrections )  or, to the RCC false sect ( a host of sects ) ~does not come by comparing scriptures with scriptures, but is a force teaching in order to divert men from the truth as revealed in the scriptures, by following the flow of the revelation from OT prophets to NT apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I was responding to the following assertion -

Quote
Revelation of God's truth comes through the scriptures and by the SPIRIT; not history books! Not the scriptures and help from history!

History confirms prophecy. Without it, prophecy would have no meaning. The prophecies are recorded, so that as history unfolds, they may be identified as fulfilled and inspire faith in God's prophetic word. So, as I see it, it is prophetic utterance from God, followed by actual events of recorded history confirming said prophecies. It is scripture and help or confirmation from true historical accounts. For those who must look back in any case, not actually living through the fulfillments. This of course is why the evil one is so set upon false or revisionist history, as we see runnamuck today.

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #25 on: Tue Feb 15, 2022 - 09:15:57 »
RB, the point is not my scriptural position on the elimination of the Satanic world, nor is it even my Preterist views that are in question.  I am challenging the error in the title of your post, for which you have no scriptural backing at all. 

When a politician is asked a direct question, they usually will never address the question itself, but will deflect with a bunch of comments that have no bearing at all on the subject.   I know you are honorable enough to not be doing this deliberately, but in essence that is what is happening here. 

There is NO verse in scripture that says anything, (and particularly Revelation itself), about Mystery Babylon having any heads at all, or having a deadly wound to one of those non-existent heads which then becomes healed.  You are changing John's words, which is NOT what you should be doing.  It is the SEA BEAST that receives the deadly wound to one of its heads.  We don't even need to go into any definitions of what Mystery Babylon is, or what the heads are, or what the wound is, or what the Sea Beast represents.  None of that is what I am discussing.  It is your post's title that is totally wrong, and your hermeneutics just keep going askew from there.  All the rest of your commentary is just so much smoke screen that blurs the real issue, and that is your changing John's language to fit your long-held viewpoint.  Can't be done, and shouldn't be attempted.
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 15, 2022 - 09:20:06 by 3 Resurrections »

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #26 on: Wed Feb 16, 2022 - 04:35:56 »
I was responding to the following assertion -

History confirms prophecy. Without it, prophecy would have no meaning. The prophecies are recorded, so that as history unfolds, they may be identified as fulfilled and inspire faith in God's prophetic word. So, as I see it, it is prophetic utterance from God, followed by actual events of recorded history confirming said prophecies. It is scripture and help or confirmation from true historical accounts. For those who must look back in any case, not actually living through the fulfillments. This of course is why the evil one is so set upon false or revisionist history, as we see runnamuck today.
Amo, I do not disagree "History confirms prophecy"~but that is a far cry from extra-biblical sources is needed to interpret the holy scriptures~for example Josephus' book on the wars of the Jews, etc.

That being said, even using history to confirm bible prophecy, one stills needs to compare scriptures with scriptures and prove what he is saying to confirm it is truly prophesied in the holy scriptures..........so, bottom line, scriptures interpret scriptures in order for one to speak THE TRUTH, or else the person speaking/teaching is nothing more than speaking into the air to the evils spirits in the air who may be behind all he is saying, good chance they are in spite of 3 Rusrrections doctrines of devils that they are long gone since 70 A.D. They are shouting his praises without question on that doctrine.

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #27 on: Wed Feb 16, 2022 - 04:57:21 »
I am challenging the error in the title of your post, for which you have no scriptural backing at all. 
You must wait until the spiritual puzzle is put together and when it is, then it will be seen clearly Mystery Babylon, headed up under its king the prince from the bottomless pit is also the spirit of the sea beast that makes war against the saints and overcomes them~NOT DESTROYING THEM but silencing them in the temple of God which the man of sin/THE abomination will take total control over just before the coming of Jesus Christ that God WILL makes desolate at His coming. Much like the man of sin ruling in the Jewish Temple at Christ's first coming.

Just because you cannot grasp a hold of these truths, does not make them unbiblical. You can labor to prove we are not using the scriptures properly when we address the particular section of God's word like ISAIAH 13, where we started would be the perfect place for you to start. Do not start at the end, but at the beginning with me. You MUST prove I'm starting off wrong, or else you really have no grounds to argue with me.

I know why you are so anxious to prove me wrong~it is because this truth that we will present destroys completely your doctrine that you so much cherish. I will address this more in detail when we arrive at Revelation 17,18. 

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #28 on: Wed Feb 16, 2022 - 21:33:45 »
Quote
Amo, I do not disagree "History confirms prophecy"~but that is a far cry from extra-biblical sources is needed to interpret the holy scriptures~for example Josephus' book on the wars of the Jews, etc.

That being said, even using history to confirm bible prophecy, one stills needs to compare scriptures with scriptures and prove what he is saying to confirm it is truly prophesied in the holy scriptures..........so, bottom line, scriptures interpret scriptures in order for one to speak THE TRUTH, or else the person speaking/teaching is nothing more than speaking into the air to the evils spirits in the air who may be behind all he is saying, good chance they are in spite of 3 Rusrrections doctrines of devils that they are long gone since 70 A.D. They are shouting his praises without question on that doctrine.

Of course many people will wrongly apply history according to their own understanding. As the bible itself addresses.

2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Private interpretations run amuck, according to the will of God, and the evil one. For the evil one desires deception, and the Lord desires none but those who truly seek His guidance with all their heart and soul, to know Him and understand His ways.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Is it not of course the same concerning biblical prophecy? None but those who humbly seek the truths of God's word unto the glory and honor of His name, and not their own or that of another, shall be given understanding by the Holy Spirit of God. As it should be. And who is humble before God, but those who bow to His authority in submission to the one they trust completely with their lives.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Shall those who will be called least in the kingdom of heaven because they refuse the authority of God’s commandments, be privy to the mysteries of God? Will God’s Spirit be poured upon such unto revelation, who will not even acknowledge the basic fundamental authority of His commands? Should God pour out His Spirit upon such?

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Should hypocrites, who reject one of God’s commands in favor of their own or some one else’s teachings, be given the gift of the Holy Spirit of God unto the truth? Those who vainly worship God, in making His commandments of none effect by their own traditions? Those who honor God with lip service alone, worshiping in vain according to the teaching, doctrines, and commandments of men? 

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Again, why would hypocrites who honor God only with their lips while their hearts are far from Him, receive understanding from the Holy Spirit of God? Those who worship God in vain by laying aside His commandments, and replacing them with doctrines, traditions, and commandments of men. Making the commandments of God of none effect by doing so. Should these be given the Holy Spirit of God unto proper understanding in rightly dividing His word?   

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him…………………………………………………………
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost,
whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Who has our Savior declared loves Him, but those who prove their love by believing and keeping His commandments. These are those according to our Savior, that He will manifest Himself to via the Comforter, who is the Holy Spirit of God.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Who are the children of God that truly love Him, but those who seek to keep His commandments, because they do not consider them to be grievous. Are they not all privy to God’s truth, by revelation from His Holy Spirit?

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Who are the saints and remnant, who have the testimony and faith of Jesus Christ? Who will have the right to enter in through the gates of Zion, and to partake of the tree of life? According to the word of God, Jesus Christ our Lord, it is those who keep His commandments. Those who will not submit to the authority of the commandments of God, cannot either come to a correct knowledge of the truth. How can they? If they will not accept the authority and truth of that which came directly from the mouth of God to His people, and was written in stone twice by His own finger for His people, how will they ever accept the convictions of the Holy Spirit of God? Having already rejected these simple basic foundational commands and truths. They cannot.

Those willing to ignore the plain simple testimony of the ten commandments, will end up also ignoring other scriptures that will not fit the mold they either prefer, or have formulated from their own understanding. They will ignore some scriptures as they do some commandments as well, to lead down the path they prefer to that which God’s word clearly delineates. This they will naturally do with biblical prophecy as well. Focussing upon elements of scripture which support their chosen path, and or ignoring those which do not. One chosen act of indifference towards certain testimony from scripture as it were, leading to another. May God deliver us all fro such.

The holy scriptures and Biblical prophecy give us a lot of information about Babylon the great. Details and symbols which scripture itself has clearly defined for all authentic bible students to comprehend and understand. These details add up to something far more specific than a general application to this world. In my next post I will address many of these details, and the scriptural definitions and explanations of them as well. To ignore all of these identifying marks, can only amount to chosen indifferentism towards recorded prophetic utterance given to humanity under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God. May God grant us all the grace to do no such thing.
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 16, 2022 - 21:49:50 by Amo »

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #29 on: Thu Feb 17, 2022 - 04:06:35 »
Of course many people will wrongly apply history according to their own understanding. As the bible itself addresses.

2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Private interpretations run amuck, according to the will of God, and the evil one. For the evil one desires deception, and the Lord desires none but those who truly seek His guidance with all their heart and soul, to know Him and understand His ways.
Verse 20 is so often misunderstood.  It is not a statement about the reader of the prophecy; but rather about the prophet who produced the prophecy. To read anything and comprehend it is, by definition, the act of interpretation of what was written.  Clearly, we are to read and comprehend scripture, the word of God. That said, I agree that all too often there is little comprehension of what has been written.

Also, prophesy is not so much the telling of the future; rather it is the declaring of that which is not known by natural means but only by the inspiration of God through the Holy Spirit.
« Last Edit: Thu Feb 17, 2022 - 04:16:54 by 4WD »

Offline RB

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #30 on: Thu Feb 17, 2022 - 09:18:09 »
2nd Peter 1:16-21~For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.  For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.  And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
Amo, most of your post had nothing to do with what I said~and 2nd Peter 1:16-21 certainly did not.

Peter had mentioned being with Christ on the mount of transfiguration and hearing God's voice, yet as great as that was, we as believers have a MORE SURE WORD (God's voice speaking to us) of prophecy in the written word of God!

This has nothing to do with the subject under consideration but a totally different subject for another day. It has nothing to do with history and the written revelation of God's word, or how men interpret such revelation given to us.

I really could not see the purpose of your post in relation to what I have thus posted~other than these words:
Quote from: Amo on: Yesterday at 21:33:45
The holy scriptures and Biblical prophecy give us a lot of information about Babylon the great. Details and symbols which scripture itself has clearly defined for all authentic bible students to comprehend and understand. These details add up to something far more specific than a general application to this world.
Then you should also start with Isaiah 13 and prove that I'm starting off wrong in order to find the true meaning of ...."Mystery Babylon" . One just cannot go straight to Revelation 17 and believe they will come to the true knowledge of the truth.....impossible to do so,

I do commend you for your love of the scriptures and zeal in defending the same.

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #31 on: Thu Feb 17, 2022 - 12:59:24 »
                                                                                                                  THE PROPHET EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 26-28

EZEKIEL 26-28...The Prophet Ezekiel has many things within his prophecy that are by no means easy to understand. If anyone interprets the prophet's writings literally, then that man will have many strange teachings that he cannot support with the rest of the scriptures. Any Spirit-filled, older saint, will agree with that statement.

If he is wise, a cautious saint will read this book very carefully over a few times, and for a few years, before he is ready to take a firm stand on what he sees therein. Let us look at three chapters that we believe should be part of our study. May you judge for yourselves. I trust I would be content to hold my peace, if a brother has a better interpretation, than my own. May the God of Heaven grant to us this spirit of being meek and lowly~it does not come easy for any of us.
 
"Let the prophets (in a limited sense, we all are) speak two or three, (when a church comes together in one place) and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first HOLD HIS PEACE." 1st Corinthians 14:29-30
Quote from: Paul
1st Corinthians 14:32~"The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets."
I would be subject to any child of God who may have a better interpretation of the scriptures, than the one I believe I see.

Ezekiel 26~There is a judgment against Tyrus that is DIFFERENT from the one in Ezekiel 27. The one in Ezekiel 26 is against "HER DAUGHTERS;" the one in Ezekiel 27 is against the "COMMERCE/GLORIOUS" CITY of Tyrus.
 
Above we made mention of a truth that is clearly taught in the scriptures, that is:......

..... there are TWO SPIRITUAL CITIES in this world. One is ZION/JERUSALEM; the other is EDOM/BABYLON. If the world heard these words, then they would think that we are living in a dream world, and that we are beside ourselves and very strange. Many that are very religious would not be very far behind them in their opinions about us. There would be some of God's own children that would believe we are confused or deceived. There is a very small group who would search these things out and would receive them. None of these things or man's vain opinions should ever move the elect. God's elect can be and are in ignorance on some things (we spend our Christian walk being converted on doctrine; this is true of ALL of us, or at least it should. 2nd Peter 3:18) BUT they cannot be deceived to a point where it could be said of them, that their overall doctrine is against the teachings of the scriptures. The doctrine of Jesus Christ being the SON OF GOD, they will not reject. 1st John 4:2-3; 2nd John 7-11. This of ALL doctrine is essential to the Christian faith! There can be NO truth without this confession, which is the foundation of all of our doctrines.

    There are other names used in the scriptures to identify both of these two cities, but these names are used most of the time. One is elected by God's grace, vessels of mercy; the other is passed over and left in their sins, and vessels of his wrath.

    Ezekiel 27...We read of A CITY within this chapter that filled the needs and desires of many people. This city enriches the kings of the earth with the MULTITUDE of its RICHES and its MERCHANDISE.

    Verse 33.."When thy wares went forth out of the seas, thou filledst many people; thou didst enrich the kings of the earth with the multitude of thy riches and of thy merchandise."
 
Our minds MUST NOT limit this to a literal city; NO MORE, than we would limit ZION to a literal city. Zion was a literal city in Israel of old, but we all know that there is a GREATER Zion than the one mentioned in David's day; One that the prophets of old prophesied good of, concerning things to come, and NOTHING BUT GOOD.

NO MORE than we would limit the city of Jerusalem in the scriptures, to the literal city in the middle east. MANY times in the Bible it is used for God's elect; past, present, and future. As we read the word of God, we allow the context and the contents of those scriptures we are reading to help us give the proper sense to what we are reading; Or, we will be very confused with our understanding of truth.

".......and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place. So they read in the books in the law of God DISTINCTLY, and GAVE THE SENSE, and caused them to understand the reading." Nehemiah 8:7 (the end of the verse) and Nehemiah 8:8

WITHOUT reading the scriptures distinctly and giving the PROPER SENSE, we have NO understanding for ourselves or our hearers!

Ezekiel 28 ..In this chapter we read about the judgment of the "prince of Tyrus;" again, we must rule our minds to receive what we are reading so as to make this chapter fit with others scriptures; and to follow the FLOW of these three connected chapters on the JUDGMENTS of TYRUS.

TYRUS... A name used by Ezekiel that fits PERFECTLY with the BABYLON of the book of REVELATION.

Let us consider these chapters briefly and see if: Ezekiel 26 is the SAME daughters of Babylon of Revelation 17.  Ezekiel 27 is the SAME city of Babylon of Revelation 18. Ezekiel 28 is the SAME prince of Babylon/beast of Revelation. No one should be surprised by the truth that they will see. The AUTHOR of Ezekiel is the SAME as Revelation! And he KNOWS the END from the BEGINNING!

The word of God is God's hidden secrets to his children. If you are reading this, and what I just said, upset you; then, these hidden secrets ARE NOT for YOU! You can go and fill your belly with the husks that the swine’s of this world eat, at least you can leave this world with a full belly!

Ezekiel 26....At the end of this world, for a little season (that season, when exactly it started no man can pinpoint; of how long it will last, is not known to man; God's word does reveal to us concerning things to expect and what to look for to help us to know that we are in that little season.) the elect shall suffer persecution greater than in any time of this world history from the Devil, who knows that he has but a short time to do his evil work and show his hatred of God and his children, and to continue his wicked work of destroying this earth and those within.

During that little season, iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold, and people shall betray one another. During that little season, many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. MEGA CHURCHES shall increase, saints shall be put to death (silenced, most likely) and the true Jerusalem (God's saints will be few in number in comparison to the many who follow false prophets) The OUTWARD Jerusalem that will be on the earth at that time, that SUPPOSE to be the elect of God, will be FALSE and the true saints will be few and UNKNOWN to men of this world for the most part. This HAS ALWAYS been true for the MOST PART, that is: God's children are misfits and UNKNOWN to the people of this world. They (the world/Babylon) HAVE ALWAYS looked to false religion as the source of their knowledge of God. THEREBY, they remain in ignorance and darkness. The men that they look to for knowledge, is just as blind as they are, and are just as wicked. They have the same father and belong to the same family.  "He that is spiritual judgeth (knoweth) all things, yet he himself is judged (known) of no man," 1st Cor. 2:15 We know them and their ways, yet they do not know us!

Back to Ezekiel 26..That being said, we read of Tyrus seeing Jerusalem broken, (verse 2) she thinks that she shall be replenished. God's true Jerusalem today is broken by a WAR that the BEAST/BABYLON has against her. She will NEVER be totally defeated but will be overcome to a great degree before this world ends. Revelation 13:7; Revelation 11:7-13.

False religion has increased greatly in this world in the last two hundred years. Consider the many different religions that were NOT here two hundred years ago. I am not going to name them, they are legions! It is true that the mystery of iniquity has always been in this world working since the fall of man, BUT has increased GREATLY during this little season that we ARE now in. Not only the number of false sects has increased greatly, but the multitudes within these sects are great!

Revelation 17 which we will consider when we arrive there, tells of the DAUGHTERS of the GREAT WHORE, that are DESTROYED by the KINGS of this world before this world come to an end. Even though the devil works in BOTH the great whore and the kings of the earth, IT IS GOD that ultimately WORKS in the KINGS heart to cause THEM to hate the whore and kill her. Even though, they have went to bed with her themselves!

In Ezekiel 26:2, we read: "Therefore (because she begins to increase when Jerusalem was broken) thus saith the Lord God; Behold I am against thee, O Tyrus and will cause MANY NATIONS to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up."
 
Revelations 17:16, "And the ten horns...  (see verse 12, ten is a number of totality and horn equals power; so it means all the kings of the earth that have power)

...which thou sawest upon the beast, THESE shall HATE the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts (they do not know this) to fulfill his will....." Revelation 17:17 in part.

The WALLS of Tyrus shall fall and she (the word her is used in verse 4) shall become a spoil to the NATIONS.

"And HER DAUGHTERS which are IN THE FIELDS shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I am the LORD." Ezekiel 26:6 All of her daughters that are in the fields (in the scriptures, the fields ARE the world; See Matthew 13:38; false religion FILLS the earth, from one end of heaven to the other end of heaven.)

Her daughters are those which came through her womb. Babylon is a GREAT CITY and part of that great city is religious; (every great literal city of this earth has a part of it that is religious; this is true of MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT). This great city of Babylon HAS GIVEN BIRTH to MANY false beliefs and sects. These sects are called DAUGHTERS of the WHORE, because they ALL came FROM the womb of the MYSTERY BABYLON.
 
Here in Ezekiel 26, under the name of Tyrus we see what we see in Revelation 17 of the daughters of the whore being destroyed by KINGS of the world (they BOTH belong to BEAST/BABYLON/SATAN, they both have his name, his image, and his mark!) In verse 7 of Ezekiel 26, it states that it was Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, who will destroy Tyrus, but in verses three and verse five it is the NATIONS. So we understand that Satan who is king of his Babylon works through the kings of the earth to destroy the daughters of Tyrus/Babylon. God moving BOTH of them to destroy FALSE RELIGION, just before this world comes to a end. Then, God will destroy their paradise, Satan being the god of this paradise.

The saints LONG to see their deliverance from their LORD!
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Luke 17:22~"And he said unto his disciples, The days will come, when ye shall DESIRE TO SEE one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. "
This verse has NOTHING to do with 70 A.D. The Doctrine within these verses has to do with Christ’s SECOND COMING at the END OF THIS WORLD. Preterism is a lie.

It is SO easy to prove to anyone who is not proud of his teaching or to one who is not deceived. If he is deceived, then the verses that follow should open his eyes. He that hath ears, LET HIM HEAR!  There are a few reasons why this has NO reference to 70 A.D. teaching that is so popular with so many.

Luke 17:34~ "I tell you, (the SON OF GOD SPEAKING, hear ye HIM!) in that NIGHT there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.  Verse 35.."Two women shall be GRINDING TOGETHER; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  Verse 36.." Two men shall be in the FIELD; the one shall be taken, the other one left.

These verses make it perfectly clear, that when Jesus Christ comes again: It will be NIGHT somewhere in this world, it will be late afternoon somewhere in this world and it will be during the day, somewhere in this world. We know this by the words: In the bed sleeping in the NIGHT.....women GRINDING TOGETHER...men working in the FIELDS! and there are other things within these verses that prove what I am saying, but we must move on. If this does not prove it to someone, then maybe nothing will. One CANNOT work in the fields if someone is sleeping in the bed at night, if this is NOT speaking of something that takes place WORLD WIDE!! It just cannot happen, and everyone reading this KNOWS that as well as I do. If someone would disagree with this then you could NEVER convince them of anything!

In Ezekiel 26:12-13, we know that this perfectly describes the false churches of our day. Riches, pleasant houses (worship buildings, temple) songs, music, etc. There is a day coming when FALSE RELIGION shall never be found again.

Ezekiel 26:21.."I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be NO MORE: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou NEVER be found again, saith the Lord God. "When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the lows parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; I SHALL SET GLORY IN THE LAND OF THE LIVING;" (that can only be true in the new heaven and earth, ONCE the wicked are rooted out of it) Ezekiel 26:20

Ezekiel 27....I love the scriptures because there is NOT a book in this world like it! Later.........

   
 
« Last Edit: Thu Feb 17, 2022 - 13:04:06 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #32 on: Thu Feb 17, 2022 - 15:37:50 »
                                                                                                 THE PROPHET EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 26-28~part two

Verse 2 starts out by saying, "NOW"...By that word, I understand the Spirit of God telling me, that what we just considered in chapter 26, is ONLY dealing with a CERTAIN part of Tyrus that shall fall and NOW we shall consider another part of Tyrus that SHALL likewise fall and be NO MORE AT ALL!

Thank you most blessed God in heaven for enabling thine elect to see and know the truth! Read this chapter carefully and read Revelation a few times, then you will see that these chapters go together.

Babylon of Revelation is here under the name of Tyrus which is evident when we seriously ponder the words in Ezekiel 27.

Mystery, Babylon the Great is Satan's kingdom/city that he has built for himself. The people of this Babylon worship the dragon (Revelation 13:4,8) whose names are NOT written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. This Babylon (Tyrus in Ezekiel 26-28) has EVERYTHING that sinful man lusts after and has a lot of it and the best of it. EVERY fruit (Revelation18:14) their souls lust after ARE in this Great Babylon.

Verse 3..Tyrus is a MERCHANT of the people for MANY ISLES. All nations bring their goods INTO TYRUS. Tyrus in Ezekiel and Babylon in Revelation is NOT to be taken as literal cities in Bible prophecy.

The nations in Ezekiel 27 brought their goods INTO Tyrus and caused her to be beautiful. She boasted and said: "I am of PERFECT BEAUTY" verse 3. Sound familiar?

The BUILDERS of Tyrus had perfected her beauty. Verse 4, Look and consider what the craftsmen of this world have done to the world in which you live. They have gotten rich making this world beautiful to look at where ever you may go, it is everywhere. Each one (nations) trying to outdo the other. Dubai is a perfect example.

As you read through this chapter you will notice they have the BEST of everything, and the wisest of them leading the way. verses 5-9 They have great military might; verses10-11.....They have riches in abundance; verse12. NOTICE PLEASE..These were NATIONS of the WHOLE EARTH working separately, yet BUILDING up this BEAUTIFUL, POWERFUL CITY, called by the name Tyrus. All the kingdoms of the earth traded in Tyrus’s fairs, Verses 12-23! Verse 24.."These were thy merchants in ALL sort of things........" Compared with Revelation 18:7-15~this is not by coincidence. As in Revelation 18, so in Ezekiel 27, their END is JUDGMENT by the God of heaven.

"Thy riches, and thy fairs, thy merchandise, thy mariners, and thy pilots, thy calkers, and the occupiers of thy merchandise, and all thy men of war, that are in thee, and in all thy company which is in the midst of thee, shall fall into the midst seas in the day of thy ruin." verse 27

"and shall cause their voice to be heard against thee, and shall cry bitterly, and shall cast up dust upon their heads, they shall wallow themselves in the ashes:" verse 30 cp. Revelation 18: 19.

Verse 31 about the same as verse 30.

Verse 32.."And in their WAILING they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and lament over thee, saying, What CITY is like TYRUS, like the destroyed in the mist of the sea?

READ REVELATION 18 and then tell me before the God of heaven that they are not speaking of the SAME EVENT!

Verse 33.. ".....Thou didst enrich the kings of the earth with the multitude of thy riches and of thy merchandise." Revelation 18:9
What is amazing is this: Some of these riches and merchandise came FROM the kings own nations, that were used in BUILDING this GREAT CITY called here Tyrus, but in Revelation called by Mystery, Babylon the Great CITY of the DEVIL himself, that HE has builded to SEDUCE his followers! And MANY are RUNNING to get to this city as fast as they can! He that hath eyes, let him see!

Verses 33-35 should be easy to see now that we have proved that this chapter goes hand in hand with Revelation 18.

Tyrus/Babylon will be destroyed forever, never to be found again, no NEVER TO BE FOUND AGAIN. verse 36 and Revelation 18:11,21,22,23,

Ezekiel 28..We now have only two chapters more to consider in the Old Testament, before moving into the New Testament. We admit that with each chapter we are looking at in the OT, the harder it is to explain these scriptures as we work our way to the end of the OT. We will be thankful when we get to Revelation to help us to see more clearly. If it was easy to see and understand, than it would NOT be a MYSTERY; but, it is a hidden mystery in the BOOK OF GOD, for his chosen people to search out and to contend for as they are revealed to us by the Spirit.

Quote from: RB
One more thought before chapter 28: If God hides mysteries within the Bible, and he did, why would a saint look outside of the Bible for revelation on those mysteries? We MUST trust the word of God ALONE to reveal it's own interpretations. It is his word and interpretations/revelations and revealing of secrets belong to him alone.

Genesis 40:8 "....Do not interpretations belong to God?" said Joseph to Pharaoh's officers. Daniel 2:20-23 ......The best commentary on the word of God is the WORD OF GOD! We could give examples from the word of God to prove this, but it is another subject for another time
.

Ezekiel 28:1-2....This chapter from verse one down to verse 19 is judgment from the LORD upon the prince of Tyrus.

Is the prince mentioned in this verse a prince that one time lived in Tyrus/Tyre? Or, is the prince of verse two down to verse nineteen Satan? Regardless of one’s position, both sides do have problems verses that need to be addressed. Overlooking them and not addressing them, weakens one’s position before his reader.

Those men who hold to a literal prince, cannot identify him WITH the scriptures. Any man who wants to PLAY with history, and read Josephus to help them with their understanding of the word OF GOD, should be rejected by God's elect, who live by the word of God ALONE. There is NO material outside of the holy scriptures that can give revelation on them, NONE. Once a believer in God's word, allow any material to be used ALONG WITH the Bible FOR LIGHT on its hidden truths, then where will you stop and what should you believe and what should you reject and WHO shall we trust, other than the words of the TRUE and living God? There is no answer to those questions! The HOLY SCRIPTURES are the ONLY writings in this world that are perfect with all truth without lies; add others things with the truth/God's word, and you will have a mixture of truth and lies, and to the degree, you exalt the one above other, will be the degree of truth and lies you will hold to. This goes without reason.

There is no doubt that the prince in Ezekiel 28 is Satan. There are too many plain descriptions that are so detailed that could only be said of Satan and not of a literal man.

Verse 2..What is written in this verse could only be said of Satan. "Thus saith the LORD GOD; because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am God, I sit in the seat of God, in the mist of the seas;" In this world, it is Satan that sits in the mist of the seas.....

.....In Revelation 17 and 18, we see the BEAST and HIS kingdom giving POWER to both a whore and to great Babylon, of which the woman was very much part. (Amo, please take note) The whore and the kings of the earth sitteth upon MANY WATERS or in the MIST OF THE SEA.

This whore is NOT limited to RCC. The seas/many waters are: peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. Revelations 17:15.
 
Again, this prince said: I am God, I sit in the seat of God; This can only to said of Satan and those who live under his power and do his will~in religion or outside of religion, the same spirit rules in both of those who have the mark of the beast.

This is the spirit of the man of sin in 2Thessalonians 2:1-12. The MAN OF SIN is just as simple as it sounds: a man that lives under the power of sin and the devil. We could spend time here on this subject but must keep moving.

"yet, thou art man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God." Should we look at the words: Yet, thou ART MAN, and not God..and believe that this prince is a man like we are and close our eyes to the many things mentioned from verse 2 to verse 19, that reveals that this prince is not man in the literal sense of the word as we use the word man.
 
Again, if one takes the position that the prince of Tyrus, in Ezekiel 28, is a man as we are, then he must close his eyes to much contents of the verses that follow the statement in verse two: "thou art man, and not God."

Again, no man has the right to "overlook" the words of the prophet in verse two (thou ART a MAN) and still think of himself as one that is faithful with God's word; we likewise should labor to be just as honest as we want other men to be. We must labor to give a sense of any words that we come across as we are reading, that would fit with God’s truth throughout his word, of the particular doctrine we are teaching.

Angels are powerful spirits that were created by the Almighty, that are a little higher than man. They are not self-existence eternal spirits who have no creator that they owe their existence. They are the work of the Spirit who is the Maker of ALL things; The One that inhabiteth eternity; He that is from everlasting to everlasting. The LORD of Host is His name. He is the LORD of all hosts, in heaven and in earth.

In comparison to the Almighty, EVERYONE is less than nothing, whether in heaven or in earth. Man OR ANGELS; .......

......though angels are great in power, they ARE as a man, in COMPARISON TO JEHOVAH, the Almighty, THE I AM.  Angels in the scriptures did at times come down to earth to work for their Maker, whom they serve perfectly at his pleasure.

"And there came two ANGELS to Sodom at even." Genesis 19:1 "And when the morning arose, then the ANGELS hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city." Genesis 19:15~".............for thereby some have entertained ANGELS unawares." Hebrews 13:1.
 
The point we want to make is this: There is NOT a big difference between angels and men, man being a little lower; between angels (Satan being the most powerful) and the ALMIGHTY, there is a INFINITE space between them!

That being said, that is why the Spirit in Ezekiel 28:2 said that the prince of Tyrus, who IS Satan, is NOT God, but man. When one compares the two together, Satan/the ALMIGHTY, Satan is as a man! Though, in his wicked heart, he wants to be like the Most High in everything; but he is NOT God, but man!

We will add this: the main reason, among many, why the devil so hates Jesus Christ is this: he was defeated by JESUS, the son of David, or JESUS THE SON OF MAN! Though he was as well: Jesus Christ the Son of God; but it was Jesus as a man that defeated the prince of this world! I ask you, what does that make the prince of this world in comparison to the God of our Lord Jesus Christ?

Again, remember this and never forget this blessed truth: There is A MAN at the right hand of the Majesty in the heaven; He has been highly exalted to that place and will remain there, until God makes all of his foes his footstool. When all rule and authority and power is put DOWN; then cometh the end and when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject into him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. Yes, it was the SON OF DAVID, that spoiled principalities, and powers!

That which follows proves that the prince/king of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28 is Satan:

1. He is wiser than Daniel and there is no secret that a man can hide from him. Verse 3. God made Daniel the wisest man as far as understanding secrets that has ever lived. This king of Tyrus was wiser than Daniel.....

"Son of Man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, FULL OF WISDOM and PERFECT IN BEAUTY." verse 12

2. By being FULL of wisdom (not infinite) this king made himself a great city;(Ezekiel 27:32) with great riches; this he did by his great wisdom.

"With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee gold and silver into thy treasures: By thy GREAT WISDOM and thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart if lifted up because of thy riches:" Ezekiel 28:4-5 These verses go perfectly with Daniel 11:43: "But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and sliver, over all the precious things of Egypt...."

We will look at Daniel chapter eleven as our last chapter in the Old Testament, before looking at the New Testament. If one understands Daniel eleven, then he will have no problem making the connection between the other chapters we have considered already; neither will he have trouble making the connection with that which we will consider in the book of Revelation of Jesus Christ;

NOT the book of the Revelation of Catholicism/Rome! AMEN!
 
3. This king was in Eden the garden of God. What prince was there, other than Satan? Verse13

4. He was PERFECT in beauty in the day that he was created. verse 12,13

5. He was created not born. verse 13....angels are all created, only our first parents were created; the rest were born. This is not too deep to follow.

6. This prince was the anointed cherub that covereth; anointed by God himself. verse 14...This can not be said of any man born of Adam's race.

7. He was upon the holy mountain of God. and walked up and down in the mist of the stones of fires. Job 1:6-12 .....No earthly prince that is a son of Adam has ever done this. verse 14

8. The prince in Ezekiel 28 was PERFECT from the day he was CREATED, TILL iniquity was found in him. verse 15. This is a created spirit! Every son of Adam was BORN IN SIN; sin was NOT LATER found to be in man; man was CONCEIVED in sin. The devil was created PERFECT by God, and later fell! I am not going to give many quotes from the Bible, ALL should know this elementary doctrine. God COULD have ELECTED him and kept him from falling, but chose NOT to do so. Many angels God elected, many he did not. "I charge thee before God and the ELECT ANGELS...." 1Timothy 5:21~There should not be any doubt who the king/prince of Tyrus is, by God's saints, after considering these overwhelming clear statements by the prophet Ezekiel.

That being said, here is the sum of these three chapters from Ezekiel the prophet.

Quote from: RB
In chapter 26 we have the destruction of a part of Tyrus/Babylon, which is the RELIGIOUS part of the city. In Chapter 27 we have the COMMERCE/and all that is connected with that part of any great city, which would include the entertainment, art, and science part of Tyrus/Babylon, destroyed. In chapter 28 the king, who by his great wisdom built and made Tyrus/Babylon a great and prosperous city/kingdom. The SAME order we have in Revelation 17-20!  He likewise shall watch his great city destroyed and himself cast out and cast into the lake of fire, never to be any more. "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shall be a terror, and NEVER shalt thou be ANY MORE." verse 19 .....Revelation 20:10

Again~The order given in these three chapters is the SAME order that we will find again in the book of Revelation chapter 17-19. Whatever seems to be hard to understand within these chapters is clearly brought forth in the New Testament. The prophet did speak in proverbs and dark sentences to hide a secret therein. But the mystery does unfold for us as we come to the New Testament. This is the means that the ONLY WISE God has chosen to conceal his truths. He does give us enough light to lead us to the revelation of his blessed truths HIDDEN within HIS WORD. We trust Him to reveal his truths to us, by His Spirit. BUT REMEMBER, his truth is ONLY within the pages of his word, NOT outside of them. Those who want to look to history for help or light on interpreting the scriptures; LET THEM ALONE;
Quote
Matthew 15:14~"Let them alone, they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."
BEWARE and TAKE HEED toward ANY MAN, who uses "EXTRA BIBLICAL" means to teach YOU, doctrine that they claim is in the Bible, yet they use OUTSIDE means to teach you: "thus saith the Lord". DO NOT FALL FOR THAT LIE!
 
If you were taught by others using "Extra-Biblical" means to support their doctrine they taught you; then STOP doing the same way in teaching others; REPENT, and the Lord will forgive, and will give mercy to any that seek it. BEWARE and take HEED.
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Revelation 22:18-19~"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of this prophecy of this book, IF ANY MAN shall ADD unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And IF ANY MAN shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
This means ALL of the Bible, for the scriptures are ONE cohesive whole.

Before leaving Ezekiel 28 we must see the death blow to this proud wicked prince, who thinks he is as God. He shall die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hands of STRANGERS. The prophet Ezekiel does not tell us who these STRANGERS are, we must seek help elsewhere in the scriptures of truth.
 
The devil is the prince and power of the air, he rules over the people of this world; but the kingdom shall be taken from the devil and his children and given to Jesus Christ and his children. The saints of the Most High are at the moment, STRANGERS in this world, but we shall come back with our prince and take it from God's enemies to posses it for ever, even for ever and ever.

See Hebrews 11:13; 1st Peter 1:1; 2:11 with Revelation 19:11-21; Revelation 20:7-9 These are the STRANGERS....... (mentioned in verses 7, 10,)
.....along with their mighty Prince, that shall destroy the devil and his army at the last day. The enemies shall be cast out of this world into the lake of fire..... (deaths, verses 8,10: the second death)
 
....Then shall be a new heaven and earth where we shall reign for ever and ever with the our MIGHTY KING and LORD.

Next, let us consider the last of the Old Testament scriptures on this subject before we look at the New Testament. Then, after we finish with the New Testament, we will give some closing remarks to consider concerning: Mystery, Babylon the great.
 
« Last Edit: Fri Feb 18, 2022 - 03:45:20 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #33 on: Fri Feb 18, 2022 - 04:52:04 »
                                                                                   DANIEL 11 INTRODUCTION CONSIDERATIONS TO HELP US.......
 
This chapter will be a little harder to see than the last. Our Lord spoke in many parables (this chapter without controversy is in a form of a parable) as we all know; it is very important when laboring to understand a parables is this: You do not need to interpret every word within the parable, in order to know the truth behind the parable you are considering. Daniel of all prophets could have the most difficult prophecy of all. He understood secrets; and when asked, revealed them by God's mercy. Daniel's writings/visions are just as hard (maybe harder) as the visions he revealed for king Nebuchadnezzar. I believe that is a very fair statement that most would not disagree with. Would not the wisest prophet, have the most difficult writings? It would be very fitting that he would have them.
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Daniel 12:8-9~"And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words ARE CLOSED UP and SEALED till the TIME OF THE END."
The end in this verse, is this world as we know it. I know this by many facts revealed to us in this book; but one for now: "But go thy way (to his fathers, death) TILL the end be: for thou SHALT REST, (death for a child of God is REST/SLEEP, till the resurrection of our bodies) and stand in thy lot (resurrection) at the end of the days. Daniel 12:13

We understand how some interpret the word end in Daniel's prophecy, to mean: the end of the Jewish nation, their temple, their whole system of worship, the end where God is no longer the God of the Jews only, but also, of the Jews and Gentiles. We agree, that all happens, but for different purposes than what they believe. Their doctrine of those things happening are true, but they are NOT taught here. It is very deceitful to use "sound bites" of words, to teach a doctrine you wish to put forth as truth, when the scriptures in that particular place is not teaching what you wish were there; and it may not be taught no where in the scriptures! You need more than "sound bites" to convince God's children what you are saying is indeed the truth of God's word. The content of the context from where you are drawing your support must support you! The end in Daniel 12, will not support from the content of Daniel 12, for those people who hold to what I just mentioned above.

The words of Daniel 12 were spoken AFTER the words of chapter eleven. When Daniel heard everything from Daniel 10:18 to Daniel 12:8, he did not understand those dark sayings from the mouth of the angel that showed him that which were noted in the scriptures of truth. Again, what was said to Daniel by the angel can be found in the scriptures of truth! because the angel said that it would be in them.
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Daniel 10:21~"But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scriptures of truth:"
The vision that the prophet Daniel had in Daniel 10 and recorded in Daniel 11, we have  assurance from the angel that talked with Daniel, that we can find other scriptures to help us with our understanding of Daniel’s vision. But, we can only find help in the SCRIPTURES OF TRUTH! With that truth and foundation to work from; Please consider with me.... A few thoughts before looking into chapter eleven:

1.The vision required a special visit from a messenger from heaven to help this gifted prophet to have scriptural understanding of the vision. The prophet had understanding of the CONTEXT of the vision, but NOT the spiritual understanding of it. This is seen by reading
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Daniel 10:1~ "In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision."
But, the angel was sent from heaven to MAKE him understand the spiritual detail of the overall message. We know that the angel did not go into every little word of explaining it, but did give an overall understanding of it. We have much more light in the New Testament to help us out even farther with the understanding of it, without which, we would still be in the dark to a great degree.
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Daniel 10:14"Now I am come to MAKE THEE understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days."
And there is enough information to guide us in the right direction of understanding Daniel’s vision of the end time and that which SHALL BEFALL the HOLY PEOPLE, which were Danile's people, whose names were written in the book of life.
 
THIS is the SUM of ALL that is in Daniel chapter eleven. After considering the chapter, we must leave that chapter seeing the same truth, and it is this: That which shall befall Daniel's people in the latter days of this earth, just before the resurrection of all that has ever lived in this earth.

2. Daniel's vision will come to pass....Daniel 10:1 "....and the thing IS TRUE..."

3. The TIME APPOINTED for this vision was LONG. It would be many years before the vision comes to pass....Daniel 10:2..and the thing is true, BUT the time appointed was LONG."

4. The vision was revealing a secret that shall BEFALL Daniel's PEOPLE in the LATTER DAY of this world, at the TIME OF THE END.

Please consider the next point, for it is most important to understand; miss this point, and you are going to end up in serious error; with a doctrine that will force you to look at the scriptures in the New Testament with a very limited vision; forcing most of the New Testament in our day into the distant past; with most of the New Testament fulfilled; with nothing left, but the coming of the Lord at the last day; and we will add: a day in which they have no seasons or signs revealing to us of that day of our Lord's coming for us.

We will add: many of these folk have even taken away the resurrection of our bodies and left the believers with no blessed hope. They have taken whole books and many chapters in the New Testament and have stamped them: FULFILLED IN 70 A.D.! The Book of Revelation: fullfilled in 70 A.D. or shorty afterward! Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21: FULFILLED 70 A.D.! 2Thessalonians 2:1-12: Fullfilled in the fall of the Roman Empire!

They have removed MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT from being a secret hidden in the scripture, that has its ultimate fulfillment in the book Revelation and the END OF TIME; of which (the book of Revelation), reveals to us the LAST DAYS of this world; from the death of Christ to the end of this world; and much concerning the little season at the very end of this world. All this being said, let us consider now:

A. Daniel's TRUE people were not fleshly Jews but the RIGHTEOUS/HOLY/WISE of this world, BOTH Jews AND Gentiles . We KNOW that the angel was ONLY referring to them by the words he carefully spoke to Daniel.

 Daniel 12:1 "And at THAT TIME (chapter eleven) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people, (NO angel of heaven has ever stood for ANY of the wicked; they were created as ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for THEM who shall be heirs of salvation. Hebrews 1:14).

B. The angel made it clear that he only stood for EVERY ONE that shall be found written in THE BOOK. That book is the BOOK of Life. Revelation 20:12,15

C. The angel only stood for the WISE-v3; the HOLY people-v7; and those that were PURIFIED, and MADE WHITE, and TRIED, and again, WISE-v11. They war against the wicked, whether angels or men; Daniel 10:13,20.

5. Daniel's people shall suffer trouble in the latter days~".....and there SHALL BE a time of trouble, such as NEVER was since there was a nation even to that same time..." Daniel 12:1 We see these words again in Matthew 24 spoken by the Lord Jesus. We cannot go there now, but will only say this: Those words have reference to the time just before Christ’s coming back to this world the second time. 70 A.D. doctrine taught by so many, DOES NOT FIT into Matthew 24, that so many try to force there. There WILL be a GREAT TRIBULATION time just before this world ends.

6. Daniel's people SHALL be DELIVERED. Daniel 12:1....Daniel's people shall be delivered, but that does not mean that they will not be tried; they will be tried and overcome by MYSTERY BABYLON the great; Just as they were in the days of Daniel. The saints left in this earth at the end of the little season, will be overcome by mystery Babylon the great, but will NEVER be DESTROYED, but will be delivered by the coming of the Lord Jesus.

 "....the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In FALMING FIRE taking vengeance on them that know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Thessalonians 1:-7-9

"And they went up on the breadth of the earth, compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: (the city of wrath is Babylon) and FIRE came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." Revelation 20:9
 
Our final deliverance is sure, nevertheless during the little season there will be a period of great suffering and rejecting for God's elect.
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Daniel 11:35~"And some of them of UNDERSTANDING SHALL FALL, to try them, and to PURGE, and to make them WHITE, (same as what is said in Daniel 12:10!) even to the TIME OF THE END: because it is yet for a time appointed."
  "...but the people (Daniel's people) that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: (this is what we are laboring to do) yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days." Daniel 11:32-33~ These things just mentioned can happen in a spiritual sense as well as literal. There is more..
 
"Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a LITTLE HELP: (there will be only a few that will really understand and follow the truth. One will not have many to help them in that day!) but MANY (religious people that are deceived) shall cleave to them with FLATTERIES.” If a man allows another person to use a flattery tongue with him, he is allowing himself to be deceived. When you are being flattered by someone, then you will not be able to see pass that flattering tongue!

7. At the time that these things reach their pinnacle; at the end of the TIME OF TROUBLE, then the resurrection of all men will take place.
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Daniel 12:2~"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
We know how some are bold enough to explain these verses away, but they are easy to understand and should NOT present a problem to God's saints.

"Sleep in the DUST of the EARTH"...is a perfect picture of death and what happens at death. Those (some will be alive at the resurrection) ALL that sleep in the dust of the earth will AWAKE! Some to eternal life and some to eternal damnation.
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John 5:28-29~"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL in the graves (dust of the earth in Daniel~RB) shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
Almost the exact words from Daniel 12:2, which had to be where our Lord got his words from that he spoke in John 5:28-29. As the son of man, he only spoke what he knew from the Old Testament scriptures.
 
8. We will add this one more thing before Daniel chapter eleven. The angel that shewed Daniel the truth of chapter eleven, told Daniel to “SHUT UP” the words, and “SEAL THE BOOK;” by that statement I take those words from the angel to mean this: that the words WILL BE SHUT UP AND SEALED BY GOD. Let us consider these words.
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Daniel 12:4 ~But thou, O Daniel, SHUT UP the words, and SEAL the book, EVEN TO the TIME OF THE END: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
In the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, we read: "And he saith unto me, Seal NOT the sayings of the prophecy of this book: the TIME is at HAND." Revelation 22:10~There is a part missing in the book of Revelation that is in Daniel 12:4! "Many shall run to and fro, and KNOWLEDGE SHALL BE INCREASED."

Daniel's prophecy was SHUT UP and SEALED to the TIME OF THE END. AT the END of this world, the God of heaven will increased knowledge IN THE WORD OF GOD for his people concerning the THINGS which are written therein to PREPARE them for those EVIL DAYS that are coming!

From Jesus Christ to the end of this world, we are in the LAST DAYS. The LATTER DAYS of the last days will be the LITTLE SEASON of the book of Revelation!

I have heard Daniel 12:4, misinterpreted every time someone quotes from it. The knowledge that they think will increase will be the intelligent level of natural men!

They need to read the verse very carefully. The first part of the verse explains the second part!

It does not concern me too much when I read the church fathers and see how far they are off on many end-time teachings or they just did not write too much on them, either way, I understand WHY, and so should you, after reading Daniel 12:4 carefully and with understanding.
 
« Last Edit: Fri Feb 18, 2022 - 08:21:09 by RB »

Offline Amo

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Re: Mystery Babylon~deadly wound healed
« Reply #34 on: Fri Feb 18, 2022 - 08:58:52 »
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Then you should also start with Isaiah 13 and prove that I'm starting off wrong in order to find the true meaning of ...."Mystery Babylon" . One just cannot go straight to Revelation 17 and believe they will come to the true knowledge of the truth.....impossible to do so,

I did not say you were wrong, or that all should go straight to Revelation 17. The direction one starts is not as important, as taking all the scriptures upon the subject into consideration unto proper Spirit lead conclusion. The book of Revelation however, is where so very many of the prophecies of the bible meet, and come to ripened fruition. Given by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Himself, to His church and body, unto final revelation for His church and this world. The prophecies it addresses then which pertain to the same subjects, meet their final and complete explanation and fulfilment in accordance with these words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.