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Offline LightHammer

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Confusion
« on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 14:55:09 »
I am bit confused as to how this exactly breaks down. I've heard the usuals with regards to the Catholic Church, Pope and all that being related to the Antichrist. What I am having issues with is figuring how the proponents of this eschatology break this down in the role the Pope and Catholic Church actually fulfill. This is exceptionally difficult because it seems that every other person I try to sit down with and dialogue with holds a conflicting view with the person before him.

Please do me a favor and save the bigotry and hate-filled posts for another time. I simply want those who would apply the Antichrist, Beast, Wh0re of Babylon eschatology to actually specificy what they mean.

Is the Pope supposed to be the Beast of the Sea and the Church as a whole the Wh0re of Babylon? Or is the Pope the Beast of the Land, the false prophet with the Catholic Church being his constituents?

My personal views are known for the most part I think but to clarify I believe the Wh0re of Babylon to have been apostate Judaism with the city being specifically Jerusalem. I believe the seven-headed, ten-horned, leopard-body, lion-mouth, bear-footed Beast of the Sea to have been the Roman Empire which arose after the Roman Republic received the affliction of civil war. I have a few speculations about the Beast of the Land but my eschatology is still developing on that. However I believe this entire portion of Revelation to have already occured. With that in mind you don't have to be concerned with me, as a Catholic, being offended with your eschatological views.

I just want to properly understand your views.

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Confusion
« on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 14:55:09 »

Offline fenton

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #1 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 15:19:40 »
I'm confused too

it seems that "almost" everyone has a different opinion on everything   ???  ???

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #1 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 15:19:40 »

Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #2 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 16:33:55 »
I'm confused too

it seems that "almost" everyone has a different opinion on everything   ???  ???

that's why the thessalonians searched the scripture daily to see if what Paul said was true or not.
(Acts 17:11)


So take what someone says about the subject and get your bible and see if what they say is true or not....
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 17:04:28 by KNOWLEDGE BOMB »

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #3 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 16:52:43 »
LightHammer,

I think the reason there is so much confusion on this is because no one knows who they are. People post their ideas that they have been taught and they spread these ideas with no scripture to back it up.

From my reading of the bible, I have noticed:

1) Beast when associated with the number 4 usually refers to angels.

Rev 4:6  And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
Rev 4:7  And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
Rev 4:8  And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

2) There 2 women prevalent through out the scriptures, esp. in Proverbs. One is the virtuous woman whom I think represents the true church. Then there is the harlot church, mystery Babylon.

Rev_17:5  And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

I don't know anything about the false prophet.

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #3 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 16:52:43 »

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #4 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 16:55:19 »
LightHammer,

I think the reason there is so much confusion on this is because no one knows who they are. People post their ideas that they have been taught and they spread these ideas with no scripture to back it up.

From my reading of the bible, I have noticed:

1) Beast when associated with the number 4 usually refers to angels.

Rev 4:6  And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
Rev 4:7  And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
Rev 4:8  And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

2) There 2 women prevalent through out the scriptures, esp. in Proverbs. One is the virtuous woman whom I think represents the true church. Then there is the harlot church, mystery Babylon.

Rev_17:5  And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

I don't know anything about the false prophet.

The Catholic Church doesn't really have a set curriculum for eschatology so all that I believe is the product of my own studies.

I can share it with you sometime if you like.

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #4 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 16:55:19 »



Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #5 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 17:01:04 »
I can share it with you sometime if you like.

Sure, I am a truth seeker, if it agrees with the bible I will accept it. I don't adhere to any churches doctrine, I read the bible and allow the Holy Spirit to lead and reveal.

Forgot to mention I believe the bible and the Holy Spirits guidance is a ALL one needs to understand all truth.

Offline trifecta

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #6 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 17:11:34 »
Sorry, Eden, but don't you think that God may work through his Church and not just through individuals? 

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #7 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 17:14:51 »
Sorry, Eden, but don't you think that God may work through his Church and not just through individuals? 

Who is God's church?

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #8 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 17:22:23 »
Oh man.

 ::eatingpopcorn:

Offline trifecta

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #9 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 17:26:24 »
Good question, Eden.  I have my opinion, but first, please consider the possibility that God's church exists.
If you think about it, secularists make the same argument: with so many religions in the world, how can there be one true religion?

IMHO, the truth is not easy to find.  This is the nature of truth.  There are many wrong answers to the question 2 plus 2 equals 4, but only one right answer.
Finding that church is worth the effort.



Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #10 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 17:47:09 »
Good question, Eden.  I have my opinion, but first, please consider the possibility that God's church exists.
If you think about it, secularists make the same argument: with so many religions in the world, how can there be one true religion?

IMHO, the truth is not easy to find.  This is the nature of truth.  There are many wrong answers to the question 2 plus 2 equals 4, but only one right answer.
Finding that church is worth the effort.



If I could find a King James bible believing church, I would jump on board. Unfortunately I have not been able to find that church. The church is the body of Christ, for years the body members can be found in all christian denominations and the catholic church. It is not this way any more. Did you see the thread about "what is the great falling away", I believe the falling away is exactly what you see happening today. People are abandoning the truths of the bible, they don't even believe the bible is the word of God any more. I believe this is a part of what the bible calls Mystery Babylon.

Rev_18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. I don't want to derail here so I will stop.

The true church is the body of born again believers. From what I can see, true believers are leaving organized religion in droves, we can't stomach the new paradigm shift.

Anyway, that is why I come here, hoping to find fellowship with other bible believing Christians. Unfortunately most everyone I have talked to are so full of pride, I can't have decent discussion with them. I believe if we could get past that, we could learn from each other.

As far as mainline denominations go, there are many false doctrines. Who can teach the word of God better than the Holy Spirit?

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #11 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 17:56:46 »
Good question, Eden.  I have my opinion, but first, please consider the possibility that God's church exists.
If you think about it, secularists make the same argument: with so many religions in the world, how can there be one true religion?

IMHO, the truth is not easy to find.  This is the nature of truth.  There are many wrong answers to the question 2 plus 2 equals 4, but only one right answer.
Finding that church is worth the effort.



If I could find a King James bible believing church, I would jump on board. Unfortunately I have not been able to find that church. The church is the body of Christ, for years the body members can be found in all christian denominations and the catholic church. It is not this way any more. Did you see the thread about "what is the great falling away", I believe the falling away is exactly what you see happening today. People are abandoning the truths of the bible, they don't even believe the bible is the word of God any more. I believe this is a part of what the bible calls Mystery Babylon.

Rev_18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. I don't want to derail here so I will stop.

The true church is the body of born again believers. From what I can see, true believers are leaving organized religion in droves, we can't stomach the new paradigm shift.

Anyway, that is why I come here, hoping to find fellowship with other bible believing Christians. Unfortunately most everyone I have talked to are so full of pride, I can't have decent discussion with them. I believe if we could get past that, we could learn from each other.

As far as mainline denominations go, there are many false doctrines. Who can teach the word of God better than the Holy Spirit?

Not to be a stickler but you do realize that the majority of King James Bibles are incomplete versions of an original older canon?

I only say this because you seem to be sincere and I would hate for you to be without a complete Bible just because you are surrounded by a culture that has inherited a butchered version of it.

Offline Linker

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #12 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 17:59:11 »
Response to the OP

I can address your confusion:

1. The RCC is not contained within the scope of the prophetic scriptures
2. Jerusalem is not the the Wh0re of Revelation
3. The beast and his followers have nothing to do with the RCC and are not part of it
5. The Vatican is not the great city of Revelation

All of this can be explained and I can do it, but I have to know that any further posting of mine on this forum will not just be arbitrarily deleted for no good reason, I do not like wasting time

You are a moderator so if you want my views on the subject of this post, you will have to prevent any meddling by another preterist moderator who deleted all of my many posts

I am not a preterist by the way, so if this is a condition of your acceptance there would be no need for me to answer further

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #13 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 18:04:59 »
Response to the OP

I can address your confusion:

1. The RCC is not contained within the scope of the prophetic scriptures
2. Jerusalem is not the the Wh0re of Revelation
3. The beast and his followers have nothing to do with the RCC and are not part of it
5. The Vatican is not the great city of Revelation

All of this can be explained and I can do it, but I have to know that any further posting of mine on this forum will not just be arbitrarily deleted for no good reason, I do not like wasting time

You are a moderator so if you want my views on the subject of this post, you will have to prevent any meddling by another preterist moderator who deleted all of my many posts

I am not a preterist by the way, so if this is a condition of your acceptance there would be no need for me to answer further

1. You need to understand that I am not confused about what I believe. I am actually very secure in my current understanding but am still learning.

2. My point is to understand what YOU believe just so we're clear.

3. I have been gone for a little while and it seems like you have had past issues. To avoid any further issues you can inbox me your views and I can seek clarification offline.

Offline trifecta

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #14 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 18:07:49 »

Good question, Eden.  I have my opinion, but first, please consider the possibility that God's church exists.
If you think about it, secularists make the same argument: with so many religions in the world, how can there be one true religion?

IMHO, the truth is not easy to find.  This is the nature of truth.  There are many wrong answers to the question 2 plus 2 equals 4, but only one right answer.
Finding that church is worth the effort.



If I could find a King James bible believing church, I would jump on board. Unfortunately I have not been able to find that church. The church is the body of Christ, for years the body members can be found in all christian denominations and the catholic church. It is not this way any more. Did you see the thread about "what is the great falling away", I believe the falling away is exactly what you see happening today. People are abandoning the truths of the bible, they don't even believe the bible is the word of God any more. I believe this is a part of what the bible calls Mystery Babylon.

Rev_18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. I don't want to derail here so I will stop.

The true church is the body of born again believers. From what I can see, true believers are leaving organized religion in droves, we can't stomach the new paradigm shift.

Anyway, that is why I come here, hoping to find fellowship with other bible believing Christians. Unfortunately most everyone I have talked to are so full of pride, I can't have decent discussion with them. I believe if we could get past that, we could learn from each other.

As far as mainline denominations go, there are many false doctrines. Who can teach the word of God better than the Holy Spirit?

Eden,

Thank you for your honest response.  I have to disagree on much of what you say.  Nevertheless, I think I understand how you feel.  

I think your approach is offbase, because Jesus himself said that the gates of Hell will not prevail against his church.
I don't think that his church is a body of believers that really never meets.  That goes against the very meaning of church (a gathering).
While many here may agree with you, the idea that Christ would establish His church only for it to go into apostasy doesn't make sense,
nor does the idea that the church is just people who believe the same thing.

It's fine to ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, but questions of doctrine should be confirmed with those who are firm in the faith.
This is one reason why the church is important.

Yes, some churches have false doctrines but the real church doesn't.  It never really has.

I wish you the best.

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #15 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 18:09:29 »
Good question, Eden.  I have my opinion, but first, please consider the possibility that God's church exists.
If you think about it, secularists make the same argument: with so many religions in the world, how can there be one true religion?

IMHO, the truth is not easy to find.  This is the nature of truth.  There are many wrong answers to the question 2 plus 2 equals 4, but only one right answer.
Finding that church is worth the effort.



If I could find a King James bible believing church, I would jump on board. Unfortunately I have not been able to find that church. The church is the body of Christ, for years the body members can be found in all christian denominations and the catholic church. It is not this way any more. Did you see the thread about "what is the great falling away", I believe the falling away is exactly what you see happening today. People are abandoning the truths of the bible, they don't even believe the bible is the word of God any more. I believe this is a part of what the bible calls Mystery Babylon.

Rev_18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. I don't want to derail here so I will stop.

The true church is the body of born again believers. From what I can see, true believers are leaving organized religion in droves, we can't stomach the new paradigm shift.

Anyway, that is why I come here, hoping to find fellowship with other bible believing Christians. Unfortunately most everyone I have talked to are so full of pride, I can't have decent discussion with them. I believe if we could get past that, we could learn from each other.

As far as mainline denominations go, there are many false doctrines. Who can teach the word of God better than the Holy Spirit?

Not to be a stickler but you do realize that the majority of King James Bibles are incomplete versions of an original older canon?

I only say this because you seem to be sincere and I would hate for you to be without a complete Bible just because you are surrounded by a culture that has inherited a butchered version of it.

Did you get that idea from the bible or from an outside source?

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #16 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 18:14:51 »

Good question, Eden.  I have my opinion, but first, please consider the possibility that God's church exists.
If you think about it, secularists make the same argument: with so many religions in the world, how can there be one true religion?

IMHO, the truth is not easy to find.  This is the nature of truth.  There are many wrong answers to the question 2 plus 2 equals 4, but only one right answer.
Finding that church is worth the effort.



If I could find a King James bible believing church, I would jump on board. Unfortunately I have not been able to find that church. The church is the body of Christ, for years the body members can be found in all christian denominations and the catholic church. It is not this way any more. Did you see the thread about "what is the great falling away", I believe the falling away is exactly what you see happening today. People are abandoning the truths of the bible, they don't even believe the bible is the word of God any more. I believe this is a part of what the bible calls Mystery Babylon.

Rev_18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. I don't want to derail here so I will stop.

The true church is the body of born again believers. From what I can see, true believers are leaving organized religion in droves, we can't stomach the new paradigm shift.

Anyway, that is why I come here, hoping to find fellowship with other bible believing Christians. Unfortunately most everyone I have talked to are so full of pride, I can't have decent discussion with them. I believe if we could get past that, we could learn from each other.

As far as mainline denominations go, there are many false doctrines. Who can teach the word of God better than the Holy Spirit?

Eden,

Thank you for your honest response.  I have to disagree on much of what you say.  Nevertheless, I think I understand how you feel.  

I think your approach is offbase, because Jesus himself said that the gates of Hell will not prevail against his church.
I don't think that his church is a body of believers that really never meets.  That goes against the very meaning of church (a gathering).
While many here may agree with you, the idea that Christ would establish His church only for it to go into apostasy doesn't make sense,
nor does the idea that the church is just people who believe the same thing.

It's fine to ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, but questions of doctrine should be confirmed with those who are firm in the faith.
This is one reason why the church is important.

Yes, some churches have false doctrines but the real church doesn't.  It never really has.

I wish you the best.

I find very few who are firm in their faith, nobody reads the bible. That is where all truth is found.

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #17 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 18:18:59 »
Good question, Eden.  I have my opinion, but first, please consider the possibility that God's church exists.
If you think about it, secularists make the same argument: with so many religions in the world, how can there be one true religion?

IMHO, the truth is not easy to find.  This is the nature of truth.  There are many wrong answers to the question 2 plus 2 equals 4, but only one right answer.
Finding that church is worth the effort.



If I could find a King James bible believing church, I would jump on board. Unfortunately I have not been able to find that church. The church is the body of Christ, for years the body members can be found in all christian denominations and the catholic church. It is not this way any more. Did you see the thread about "what is the great falling away", I believe the falling away is exactly what you see happening today. People are abandoning the truths of the bible, they don't even believe the bible is the word of God any more. I believe this is a part of what the bible calls Mystery Babylon.

Rev_18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. I don't want to derail here so I will stop.

The true church is the body of born again believers. From what I can see, true believers are leaving organized religion in droves, we can't stomach the new paradigm shift.

Anyway, that is why I come here, hoping to find fellowship with other bible believing Christians. Unfortunately most everyone I have talked to are so full of pride, I can't have decent discussion with them. I believe if we could get past that, we could learn from each other.

As far as mainline denominations go, there are many false doctrines. Who can teach the word of God better than the Holy Spirit?

Not to be a stickler but you do realize that the majority of King James Bibles are incomplete versions of an original older canon?

I only say this because you seem to be sincere and I would hate for you to be without a complete Bible just because you are surrounded by a culture that has inherited a butchered version of it.

Did you get that idea from the bible or from an outside source?

Three places actually.

The Bible.

History

And the people who actually created the modern canon the KJV translates.


Do not misunderstand the KJV is an exceptional translation for those books of the Bible that it actually holds. However if you insist on separating yourself from your Holy Family Israel and relying solely in your ability to, by the Holy Spirit, discern the Truth of Sacred Scripture I at least want you to have a more complete Bible. I mean if you insist on removing the familial aspect of Christiainity from your life then at least carry the original Western Canon.


Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #18 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 18:27:14 »
Light Hammer,
How do you know which men are telling the truth and which are false prophets? What is your method of identifying truth?

Offline Linker

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #19 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 18:39:51 »
LightHammer's response to Linker:


"My point is to understand what YOU believe just so we're clear.

I have been gone for a little while and it seems like you have had past issues. To avoid any further issues you can inbox me your views and I can seek clarification offline."


So let me ask you .... if you are confident with your own position then why are you asking?

What is it that you want from others and why?

I can clarify the issues that you seem to be inquiring about from a solid biblical perspective, but only if you really want to know

The only issue that I have with the Grace Centered Forum is the allowance of various biased moderators to delete the posts of those who have different views indiscriminately .... this practice is devious and it is  unacceptable to those who come to this forum with accredited years of valid and sincere study, and who post well documented scripturally based information for others on the forum to consider

If you truly want the answers related to the defamation of the RCC by many and various fundamental denominations of professing christianity I can demonstrate the errors in the view using supporting scripture

If you already know why there is no biblical support for the thinking, then I need not to answer
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 18:50:19 by Linker »

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #20 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 19:10:34 »
LightHammer's response to Linker:


"My point is to understand what YOU believe just so we're clear.

I have been gone for a little while and it seems like you have had past issues. To avoid any further issues you can inbox me your views and I can seek clarification offline."


So let me ask you .... if you are confident with your own position then why are you asking?

What is it that you want from others and why?

I can clarify the issues that you seem to be inquiring about from a solid biblical perspective, but only if you really want to know

The only issue that I have with the Grace Centered Forum is the allowance of various biased moderators to delete the posts of those who have different views indiscriminately .... this practice is devious and it is  unacceptable to those who come to this forum with accredited years of valid and sincere study, and who post well documented scripturally based information for others on the forum to consider

If you truly want the answers related to the defamation of the RCC by many and various fundamental denominations of professing christianity I can demonstrate the errors in the view using supporting scripture

If you already know why there is no biblical support for the thinking, then I need not to answer


1. I ask because I want to better understand your heresy so that when I reject it in its totality.

2. I did not make this thread to be a forum for your grievances. If you have an issue use the Report to Moderator option.

Offline thims

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #21 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 19:28:12 »
Who is God's church?


God's church is the Body of Christ, now granted we all may have different viewpoints of things and the sort. We all may also join with different denominations of beliefs or regligious viewpoints. Christ Jesus destroyed the physical church and raised it in
three days through His resurrection from the cross. The church then becomes the Body of Christ and those whom believe and trust
in there heart He was raised and confess with there mouth's, will be saved.


1 Corinthians 12:12-14
  12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
  13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
  14 For the body is not one member, but many.


Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Offline LightHammer

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #22 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 19:42:29 »
Light Hammer,
How do you know which men are telling the truth and which are false prophets? What is your method of identifying truth?

I believe what the Bible teaches 100%.

What does that mean? Normatively its whatever this or that guy wants it to mean and in a world of relativism that would be the case. For guidance in Biblical truth I trust the successors of the Apostles the bishops of the Holy Catholic Church.

If there is ever a dispute among the bishops I trust the successor of St. Peter. This is how I believe the Holy Spirit preserves the orthodoxy of His Church.


Offline Linker

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #23 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 20:03:07 »
" I ask because I want to better understand your heresy so that when I reject it in its totality"

That is exactly what I thought you were doing

Too bad you do not understand it ..... maybe you should be better informed about what you want to reject

Regarding the other issue .... I am already in the process of making the appropriate contacts to deal with the preteristic bias that is allowed on the forum

This unfair practice is a direct illegal challenge against the freedom of speech and religion in the USA

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #24 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 20:11:58 »
" I ask because I want to better understand your heresy so that when I reject it in its totality"

That is exactly what I thought you were doing

Too bad you do not understand it ..... maybe you should be better informed about what you want to reject

Regarding the other issue .... I am already in the process of making the appropriate contacts to deal with the preteristic bias that is allowed on the forum

This unfair practice is a direct illegal challenge against the freedom of speech and religion in the USA

I have been back since today but last I checked the "preterist" have been confined to their own forum while every other random eschatological view is given the privlege of free reign on this forum.

Make whatever contacts you feel appropriate.

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #25 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 20:26:16 »
So your standard is the bible is the standard, that is great!

Does your bible say:
Psa 12:6  The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

I ask if your bible says this because many bible translations have taken this out. If your bible says this, do you believe it?

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #26 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 20:44:08 »
So your standard is the bible is the standard, that is great!

Does your bible say:
Psa 12:6  The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

I ask if your bible says this because many bible translations have taken this out. If your bible says this, do you believe it?

lol Of course I believe it. I'm Catholic. From east to west beginning with St. Stephen my ancestors died so that you can enjoy the luxury to speak your faith proudly in public. God used the councils of the Church to canonize the books you call Bible.

Sacred Scripture is more precious than gold to me however the canon you carry is the distorted canon that my ancestors in the west worked and died so honorably to preserve for you.

lol It would appear that Protestant England was afformidable advesary because you don't seem to have a clue as to what I'm talking about.

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #27 on: Mon Apr 09, 2012 - 14:41:03 »
So your standard is the bible is the standard, that is great!

Does your bible say:
Psa 12:6  The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

I ask if your bible says this because many bible translations have taken this out. If your bible says this, do you believe it?

lol Of course I believe it. I'm Catholic. From east to west beginning with St. Stephen my ancestors died so that you can enjoy the luxury to speak your faith proudly in public. God used the councils of the Church to canonize the books you call Bible.

Sacred Scripture is more precious than gold to me however the canon you carry is the distorted canon that my ancestors in the west worked and died so honorably to preserve for you.

lol It would appear that Protestant England was afformidable advesary because you don't seem to have a clue as to what I'm talking about.

I know what your talking about, you read the Jerusalem bible right?

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #28 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 12:26:16 »
So your standard is the bible is the standard, that is great!

Does your bible say:
Psa 12:6  The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

I ask if your bible says this because many bible translations have taken this out. If your bible says this, do you believe it?

lol Of course I believe it. I'm Catholic. From east to west beginning with St. Stephen my ancestors died so that you can enjoy the luxury to speak your faith proudly in public. God used the councils of the Church to canonize the books you call Bible.

Sacred Scripture is more precious than gold to me however the canon you carry is the distorted canon that my ancestors in the west worked and died so honorably to preserve for you.

lol It would appear that Protestant England was afformidable advesary because you don't seem to have a clue as to what I'm talking about.

I know what your talking about, you read the Jerusalem bible right?

No I actually ahven't read that one. lol I don't you understand where I'm coming from at all.

I actually use the Young's Literal Translation for most of my studies especially when it comes to eschatology because I believe all of OT prophecy was fulfilled with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

I'm not talking about translations. I mean your Bible canon is missing books.

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #29 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 19:29:43 »
So your standard is the bible is the standard, that is great!

Does your bible say:
Psa 12:6  The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

I ask if your bible says this because many bible translations have taken this out. If your bible says this, do you believe it?

lol Of course I believe it. I'm Catholic. From east to west beginning with St. Stephen my ancestors died so that you can enjoy the luxury to speak your faith proudly in public. God used the councils of the Church to canonize the books you call Bible.

Sacred Scripture is more precious than gold to me however the canon you carry is the distorted canon that my ancestors in the west worked and died so honorably to preserve for you.

lol It would appear that Protestant England was afformidable advesary because you don't seem to have a clue as to what I'm talking about.

I know what your talking about, you read the Jerusalem bible right?

No I actually ahven't read that one. lol I don't you understand where I'm coming from at all.

I actually use the Young's Literal Translation for most of my studies especially when it comes to eschatology because I believe all of OT prophecy was fulfilled with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

I'm not talking about translations. I mean your Bible canon is missing books.

Young's Literal Translation
25He answered and hath said, `Lo, I am seeing four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the appearance of the fourth [is] like to a son of the gods.'

KJV
Dan 3:25  He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Who saved Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego from the fiery furnace, Jesus or a son of the gods?

You read both bibles and they totally disagree with one another. Jesus is the Son of God.
A son of the gods is the offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men in Genesis 6.

Gen 6:2  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Which is right?

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #30 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 20:02:10 »
So your standard is the bible is the standard, that is great!

Does your bible say:
Psa 12:6  The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

I ask if your bible says this because many bible translations have taken this out. If your bible says this, do you believe it?

lol Of course I believe it. I'm Catholic. From east to west beginning with St. Stephen my ancestors died so that you can enjoy the luxury to speak your faith proudly in public. God used the councils of the Church to canonize the books you call Bible.

Sacred Scripture is more precious than gold to me however the canon you carry is the distorted canon that my ancestors in the west worked and died so honorably to preserve for you.

lol It would appear that Protestant England was afformidable advesary because you don't seem to have a clue as to what I'm talking about.

I know what your talking about, you read the Jerusalem bible right?

No I actually ahven't read that one. lol I don't you understand where I'm coming from at all.

I actually use the Young's Literal Translation for most of my studies especially when it comes to eschatology because I believe all of OT prophecy was fulfilled with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

I'm not talking about translations. I mean your Bible canon is missing books.
This translation is very confusing and hard to read, tell me, what is the evidence presented here that identifies the spirit of antichrist?
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 John 4:3
 3and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already.

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #31 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 20:18:50 »
So your standard is the bible is the standard, that is great!

Does your bible say:
Psa 12:6  The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

I ask if your bible says this because many bible translations have taken this out. If your bible says this, do you believe it?

lol Of course I believe it. I'm Catholic. From east to west beginning with St. Stephen my ancestors died so that you can enjoy the luxury to speak your faith proudly in public. God used the councils of the Church to canonize the books you call Bible.

Sacred Scripture is more precious than gold to me however the canon you carry is the distorted canon that my ancestors in the west worked and died so honorably to preserve for you.

lol It would appear that Protestant England was afformidable advesary because you don't seem to have a clue as to what I'm talking about.


Matthew 1:23
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
 23`Lo, the virgin shall conceive, and she shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel,' which is, being interpreted `With us [he is] God.'

A virgin shall conceive. Not very miraculous, many virgins conceive, but they are no longer virgins after they have conceived. Again, two completely different accounts between the 2 bibles.

King James Version
Mat_1:23  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

A virgin (someone who has never had sex) is pregnant.