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Author Topic: RAPTURE QUESTIONS  (Read 16355 times)

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Offline Jerry Shugart

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #385 on: Tue Jan 29, 2013 - 20:14:41 »
[quote author=Star of David
No, I've based my eschatological expectations entirely on Christ's response to His apostles' question recorded in Luke 21 and Matthew 24. All of the scriptures that appear to refer to the Last Days recorded in Ezekiel, Daniel, and most of Revelation (but not all) were just those prophets' (including Paul's) best guess at what the End Times hold for us, but do not supercede the One who told us about His return to earth one day, which is sooner than most people realize.

There is a huge flaw in regard to your eschatological expectations and that is your "assumption" that all the references of a future appearance of the Lord Jesus is referring to the same one. There is one coming which show Him coming to the earth but there is another one, when the saints will be "caught up" with Him in the air, which says nothing about Him coming to earth.

In fact, we can see that at that coming the saints will put on heavenly bodies and that is because their destination is the heavenly kingdom and not earth. So before you assume that all of the verses which speak of the Lord Jesus' "coming" are in regard to the one and same "coming"  you should investigate why those in the Body of Christ will put on bodies that are suitable for the heavenly kingdom and not for the earthly sphere.

Not only that, but James and Paul both teach that one of the Lord Jesus' coming can be described as being "imminent" and that rules out the idea that the "coming" of the Lord Jesus in the 24th chapter of Matthew is in view. Let us look at the following verse from the Hebrew epistles where the Lord's coming is described as drawing near:

"Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh (eggizō )" (James 5:8).

The Greek word translated "draweth nigh" at James 5:8 is eggizō and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

Now let us look at the verse which follows:

"You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord’s coming is near (eggizō). Don’t grumble against one another, brothers and sisters, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!" (James 5:8-9; NIV).

What cannot be missed is the fact that the phrase "The Judge is standing at the door" reinforces the idea that the coming of the Lord is "near" in time and both verses speak of an imminent coming of the Lord Jesus. In The Scofield Reference Bible we read that "the Biblical term 'at hand' or 'near' is never a positive affirmation that the person or thing said to be at hand will immediately appear, but only that person or thing has the quality of imminency."

Since the coming of the Lord spoken in the epistle of James is described as being "imminent" we can know that there will be no events which must precede that coming. Therefore, the Lord Jesus' "coming" described in the following passage cannot possibly be the "coming" that those who received both James' and Paul's epistles were expecting:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" (Mt.24:29-30).

If certain events, such as the "great tribulation" and the "sun being darkened" must happen prior to the Lord Jesus' coming then that event could not be described as being "imminent."

 
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 29, 2013 - 20:18:43 by Jerry Shugart »

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #385 on: Tue Jan 29, 2013 - 20:14:41 »

Offline Jerry Shugart

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #386 on: Tue Jan 29, 2013 - 20:45:02 »
Jerry you quoted  "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape"[/i] (1 Thess.5:1-3)."  Nothing about a pre-trib. escape there Jerry.

Of course that does not refer to the rapture at all, unless you think that the "blessed hope" is referring to a timee of desctruction!

Those in Thessalonica knew that the "day of the Lord" does not refer to the rapture but instead to a time of desctructio, as evidenced by Paul's words to them at 1 Thess.5:1-3.

Despite that you somehow can delude your mind into believing that the words "day of the Lord" in the following verse is referring to the rapture:

""Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed" (2 Thess.2:1-3).

Here are the same exact phrase used again and anyone in their right mind knows that they are not referring to the rapture, when the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air:

"Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city" (Zech.14:1-2).

How anyone can believe that this is referring to the rapture is beyond me. You continue to prove that you will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous!

Quote
Yet you still sit there and claim that Christians are not going to be present in the tribulation and then turn around and say that there will be Christians martyred during the tribulation....and you say i am confused??LOL

Now that you can see that you have no reasonable answers to my points you are now making up things which I never said in an effort to discredit me.

I challenge you to quote me saying that. I kind of expected that you would revert to this type of behavior sooner or later.
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 29, 2013 - 20:52:44 by Jerry Shugart »

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #386 on: Tue Jan 29, 2013 - 20:45:02 »

Offline Trumpeter

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #387 on: Tue Jan 29, 2013 - 21:59:57 »

Quote
Trumpet you said " The elect you speak of are the 144,000".  Wrong. It may the elect YOU speak of but not who Jesus is referring to.  The "elect" all throughout the NT refer to the children of God.  You said " The rest who come to Christ during the Tribulation will be martyred for their faith."  Wrong.  Paul made it very clear that there will be some of us alive and remaining at the coming of the Lord.  Let me put this simple for you. There is no pre-trib. escape.  Do you know why the return of Jesus is called the 2nd coming??  Because he came once back about 2000 years ago and then he promised to come again.  That would make 2.  Your pre-trib. escape would make 3 or 2 and a half.LOL  But by all means if it comforts you to believe in such nonsense then by all means do so.


As God is Three Aspects, All as One...So Too is the Coming of the Son of Man


 From God The Father -

If The Son of Man comes in full power and glory, and every eye shall see Him, then how is He also come as a Thief?...

Here is wisdom: The Son of Man comes, at a day and hour unknown, to spoil the house of the strong man. All that belongs to The Lord shall be taken, and all that belongs to the strong man, left.



The Son of Man first comes as Spirit, poured out on the nations, to call on His elect...

Then as The Thief, to take them away.



For those forgiven must be taken out, to make the way open to the strong man’s servant, so he may rule. Those forgiven, and fully converted in their hearts, have no place in judgment... They have passed from judgment into life.



When the Day of Troubles is concluded,
And The Father’s judgments carried out, then behold!...

The Son of Man comes on the clouds,
With the trumpet shout of God, in His raiment of power and great glory.



When the thunder and lightning crashes, filling the heavens... And the sun, the moon, and the stars are darkened, and the glorious ensign separates the heavens before the eyes of all... Then shall you know The Son of Man, The Lord of Lords, Christ Jesus, The Son of God who is come as God, shall appear!



The end is come, darkness destroyed, the strong man bound.



The Bright and Morning Star has risen, the new Day begun...

His reign, a thousand years and forever after...


His seat taken.




Give praise, thanksgiving and worship...

The One True King has come!


Amen!

Offline Grappler

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #388 on: Wed Jan 30, 2013 - 15:06:23 »
Jerry you quoted  "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape"[/i] (1 Thess.5:1-3)."  Nothing about a pre-trib. escape there Jerry.

Of course that does not refer to the rapture at all, unless you think that the "blessed hope" is referring to a timee of desctruction!

Those in Thessalonica knew that the "day of the Lord" does not refer to the rapture but instead to a time of desctructio, as evidenced by Paul's words to them at 1 Thess.5:1-3.

Despite that you somehow can delude your mind into believing that the words "day of the Lord" in the following verse is referring to the rapture:



Here are the same exact phrase used again and anyone in their right mind knows that they are not referring to the rapture, when the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air:

" Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,[a] 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction

How anyone can believe that this is referring to the rapture is beyond me. You continue to prove that you will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous!

Quote
Yet you still sit there and claim that Christians are not going to be present in the tribulation and then turn around and say that there will be Christians martyred during the tribulation....and you say i am confused??LOL

Now that you can see that you have no reasonable answers to my points you are now making up things which I never said in an effort to discredit me.

I challenge you to quote me saying that. I kind of expected that you would revert to this type of behavior sooner or later.
  Jerry you said "Of course that does not refer to the rapture at all, unless you think that the "blessed hope" is referring to a timee of desctruction!"  Good i am glad that you see that there is no pre-trib. escape there so stop refering to it to support your silly doctrine.  Jerry you said "Despite that you somehow can delude your mind into believing that the words "day of the Lord" in the following verse is referring to the rapture:"  You mean just how you delude your mind into believing something called a "rapture" that is not even in the bible?? Kind of like that??lol  Allow me to post the scripture for your deluded mind again ok? lets read together Jerry shall we?  " Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,[a] 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction."  Now Jerry...can you understand simple English? Paul mentions "coming" and "gathering" together.  No mention of some kind of silly pre-trib. escape there.  Jerry you have yet to show me in scripture where it says that Jesus is coming back before the tribulation to "rapture" his saints.  I am waiting. ::smile::

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #388 on: Wed Jan 30, 2013 - 15:06:23 »
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Offline Grappler

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #389 on: Wed Jan 30, 2013 - 15:16:04 »

Quote
Trumpet you said " The elect you speak of are the 144,000".  Wrong. It may the elect YOU speak of but not who Jesus is referring to.  The "elect" all throughout the NT refer to the children of God.  You said " The rest who come to Christ during the Tribulation will be martyred for their faith."  Wrong.  Paul made it very clear that there will be some of us alive and remaining at the coming of the Lord.  Let me put this simple for you. There is no pre-trib. escape.  Do you know why the return of Jesus is called the 2nd coming??  Because he came once back about 2000 years ago and then he promised to come again.  That would make 2.  Your pre-trib. escape would make 3 or 2 and a half.LOL  But by all means if it comforts you to believe in such nonsense then by all means do so.


As God is Three Aspects, All as One...So Too is the Coming of the Son of Man


 From God The Father -

If The Son of Man comes in full power and glory, and every eye shall see Him, then how is He also come as a Thief?...

Here is wisdom: The Son of Man comes, at a day and hour unknown, to spoil the house of the strong man. All that belongs to The Lord shall be taken, and all that belongs to the strong man, left.



The Son of Man first comes as Spirit, poured out on the nations, to call on His elect...

Then as The Thief, to take them away.



For those forgiven must be taken out, to make the way open to the strong man’s servant, so he may rule. Those forgiven, and fully converted in their hearts, have no place in judgment... They have passed from judgment into life.



When the Day of Troubles is concluded,
And The Father’s judgments carried out, then behold!...

The Son of Man comes on the clouds,
With the trumpet shout of God, in His raiment of power and great glory.



When the thunder and lightning crashes, filling the heavens... And the sun, the moon, and the stars are darkened, and the glorious ensign separates the heavens before the eyes of all... Then shall you know The Son of Man, The Lord of Lords, Christ Jesus, The Son of God who is come as God, shall appear!



The end is come, darkness destroyed, the strong man bound.



The Bright and Morning Star has risen, the new Day begun...

His reign, a thousand years and forever after...


His seat taken.




Give praise, thanksgiving and worship...

The One True King has come!


Amen!
Nonsense...Amen!  Just see my posts to Jerry on this subject from now on...thanks.

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #389 on: Wed Jan 30, 2013 - 15:16:04 »



Offline Mikeo

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #390 on: Thu Jan 31, 2013 - 11:16:34 »
I would like to stayd ALL the verses inthe Bible about the rapture; not just pound on one, and ignore the others. The rapture doctrine is NOT part of the Apostles creed, and was not an accepted teaching within orthodox Christianity for the first 1,800 yearts of church history. Martin Luther, John Know, John Calvvin, etc...did NOt beleive in the rapture. If hte Bible does not support the popular rapture teaching, then I choose to beleive in the Word of God over waht is currently popular. Again, I would like to study ALL rapture verses in context.   

Offline Covenanter

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #391 on: Thu Jan 31, 2013 - 11:52:54 »
I would like to stayd ALL the verses inthe Bible about the rapture; not just pound on one, and ignore the others. The rapture doctrine is NOT part of the Apostles creed, and was not an accepted teaching within orthodox Christianity for the first 1,800 yearts of church history. Martin Luther, John Know, John Calvvin, etc...did NOt beleive in the rapture. If hte Bible does not support the popular rapture teaching, then I choose to beleive in the Word of God over waht is currently popular. Again, I would like to study ALL rapture verses in context.   
Don't worry, Mikeo - there are NO verses in Scripture that teach the rapture. It's a recent invented doctrine, popularised by the Scofield "Bible".

The mistake is to impose rapture teaching on resurrection Scriptures.

Offline Grappler

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #392 on: Thu Jan 31, 2013 - 15:01:45 »
I would like to stayd ALL the verses inthe Bible about the rapture; not just pound on one, and ignore the others. The rapture doctrine is NOT part of the Apostles creed, and was not an accepted teaching within orthodox Christianity for the first 1,800 yearts of church history. Martin Luther, John Know, John Calvvin, etc...did NOt beleive in the rapture. If hte Bible does not support the popular rapture teaching, then I choose to beleive in the Word of God over waht is currently popular. Again, I would like to study ALL rapture verses in context.   
  You would like to stayd...what???  Oh you mean study?  You are correct the leaders of the Protestant Reformation did not believe in some kind of "rapture" as it is popularized today.  Today's "rapture" usually refers to what i like to call the pre-tribulation escape theory which is totally unbiblical.  This doctrine is just another false doctrine of the last days prior to our Messiah's return.

Offline Stucky

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #393 on: Thu Jan 31, 2013 - 15:24:02 »
There are several opinions about the last trump in 1 Cor. 15:52, but in my view the most logical one is that it will be the trumpet that ends the Church Age on Earth.  It’s a little like the final bell in the school I attended.  As long as we were in our seat when the final bell rang we were not tardy and were allowed into class. But if we got there after the final bell we would find the door closed and the class would begin without us.  In the same way, there will be believers after the last trump but they won’t be part of the Church.  They will have come to faith too late. Scholars call them Tribulation believers for that reason.

Offline Red Baker

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #394 on: Thu Jan 31, 2013 - 16:51:48 »
There are several opinions about the last trump in 1 Cor. 15:52, but in my view the most logical one is that it will be the trumpet that ends the Church Age on Earth.  It’s a little like the final bell in the school I attended.  As long as we were in our seat when the final bell rang we were not tardy and were allowed into class. But if we got there after the final bell we would find the door closed and the class would begin without us.  In the same way, there will be believers after the last trump but they won’t be part of the Church.  They will have come to faith too late. Scholars call them Tribulation believers for that reason.

 ::reading::I can not find that, will you help me?

RB

Offline Star of David

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #395 on: Thu Jan 31, 2013 - 17:03:51 »

Since the coming of the Lord spoken in the epistle of James is described as being "imminent" we can know that there will be no events which must precede that coming. Therefore, the Lord Jesus' "coming" described in the following passage cannot possibly be the "coming" that those who received both James' and Paul's epistles were expecting:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" (Mt.24:29-30).

If certain events, such as the "great tribulation" and the "sun being darkened" must happen prior to the Lord Jesus' coming then that event could not be described as being "imminent."

 

You unwittingly quoted Matthew 24:29-30a, which I recognized at the age of 10 in 1964 was Christ laying out the timeline of history to His apostles that ends with His return (Matthew 24:30a). When a person rules out the impossible (the sun will not darken anytime soon and will shine as it has for the next hundreds of millions of years plus the fact that the true stars shall never fall from the sky) and rules in the plausible and the possible (such as a total solar eclipse in a special part of the world and a significant meteor shower that are close together in time), if one lives at the right time (such as the genuine Witnesses of Chapter 11 of the Book of Revelation), you cannot ask for an easier prophecy that yields the general time frame for Christ's return to earth, as I displayed on my Matthew 24:29-30a prophecy cards beginning in February, 1992, as shown below:



ST. JEROME EDITION  (c. 1985)
Fifth Version - June 2012  (First Printing in February 1992)

The Coming of the Son of Man

Luke 21:25a
"There will be strange things happening to the sun, the moon, and the stars."

Matthew 24:29-30a
"Soon after the trouble of those days, the sun will grow dark, the moon will no longer shine, the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers in space will be driven from their courses. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky."

******************************

Back Side


August 11, 1999 (11:43 UT to 12:23 UT) -- Total solar eclipse in Iraq and Iran. (Occurs approximately once every 35 years.)

November 18, 1999 (1:00 UT to 3:00 UT) -- Leonid 33-year periodic meteor storm over Europe and the Middle East.
Peak rate = 1,688 meteors/hour.
(Jesus was 33 when He died.)

February 11, 1999 -- Pluto becomes farther from the Sun than Neptune. (Occurs once every 248 years.)

*******************************************************************

And through a simple and straightforward letter-writing effort to addressees of power and influence beginning in November, 1991 (and is still ongoing), fulfilling the Chapter 11 prophecy has been downright (and embarrassingly) easy to do.


P.S. Oh, and to stay on subject, this means that there shall never be a Rapture.

« Last Edit: Thu Jan 31, 2013 - 17:19:21 by Star of David »

Offline Stucky

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #396 on: Thu Jan 31, 2013 - 17:53:47 »
There are several opinions about the last trump in 1 Cor. 15:52, but in my view the most logical one is that it will be the trumpet that ends the Church Age on Earth.  It’s a little like the final bell in the school I attended.  As long as we were in our seat when the final bell rang we were not tardy and were allowed into class. But if we got there after the final bell we would find the door closed and the class would begin without us.  In the same way, there will be believers after the last trump but they won’t be part of the Church.  They will have come to faith too late. Scholars call them Tribulation believers for that reason.

 

 ::reading::I can not find that, will you help me?

RB

You dont have a Bible? 

1 Corinthians 15:52

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
 
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 ::amen!::

Offline Grappler

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #397 on: Fri Feb 01, 2013 - 08:19:06 »
There are several opinions about the last trump in 1 Cor. 15:52, but in my view the most logical one is that it will be the trumpet that ends the Church Age on Earth.  It’s a little like the final bell in the school I attended.  As long as we were in our seat when the final bell rang we were not tardy and were allowed into class. But if we got there after the final bell we would find the door closed and the class would begin without us.  In the same way, there will be believers after the last trump but they won’t be part of the Church.  They will have come to faith too late. Scholars call them Tribulation believers for that reason.

 

 ::reading::I can not find that, will you help me?

RB

You dont have a Bible? 

1 Corinthians 15:52

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
 
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 ::amen!::
Nope.  Nothing about the end of the church age there or whatever you are talking about...must be some kind of doctrine that you made up. ::smile::

Offline Stucky

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #398 on: Fri Feb 01, 2013 - 10:52:49 »
There are several opinions about the last trump in 1 Cor. 15:52, but in my view the most logical one is that it will be the trumpet that ends the Church Age on Earth.  It’s a little like the final bell in the school I attended.  As long as we were in our seat when the final bell rang we were not tardy and were allowed into class. But if we got there after the final bell we would find the door closed and the class would begin without us.  In the same way, there will be believers after the last trump but they won’t be part of the Church.  They will have come to faith too late. Scholars call them Tribulation believers for that reason.

 

 ::reading::I can not find that, will you help me?

RB

You dont have a Bible? 

1 Corinthians 15:52

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
 
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 ::amen!::
Nope.  Nothing about the end of the church age there or whatever you are talking about...must be some kind of doctrine that you made up. ::smile::

I love you guys.  You are gonna be so happily surprised when Jesus snatches you away at the Rapture you dont believe in and we all get to celebrate the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and laugh about the sill differences we had on earth.  None of this has anything to do with our Salvation, so it's no big deal.   ::clappingoverhead::

Offline Grappler

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #399 on: Fri Feb 01, 2013 - 11:49:09 »
There are several opinions about the last trump in 1 Cor. 15:52, but in my view the most logical one is that it will be the trumpet that ends the Church Age on Earth.  It’s a little like the final bell in the school I attended.  As long as we were in our seat when the final bell rang we were not tardy and were allowed into class. But if we got there after the final bell we would find the door closed and the class would begin without us.  In the same way, there will be believers after the last trump but they won’t be part of the Church.  They will have come to faith too late. Scholars call them Tribulation believers for that reason.

 

 ::reading::I can not find that, will you help me?

RB

You dont have a Bible? 

1 Corinthians 15:52

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
 
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 ::amen!::
Nope.  Nothing about the end of the church age there or whatever you are talking about...must be some kind of doctrine that you made up. ::smile::

I love you guys.  You are gonna be so happily surprised when Jesus snatches you away at the Rapture you dont believe in and we all get to celebrate the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and laugh about the sill differences we had on earth.  None of this has anything to do with our Salvation, so it's no big deal.   ::clappingoverhead::
Thanks Stucky.  Yes i will be surprised if some kind of pre-tribulation escape occurs since it is the opposite of what scripture teaches.  And when it doesn't happen like your hopes and dreams tell you it will and you are discouraged i will be there to encourage you and support you and to tell you hey brother it was not even scriptural to begin with so cheer up.  At least my surprise will be a happy one if i am wrong and yours will be bitter disappointment...it is a win win for me.  ::disco::

Offline Stucky

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #400 on: Fri Feb 01, 2013 - 11:55:42 »
There are several opinions about the last trump in 1 Cor. 15:52, but in my view the most logical one is that it will be the trumpet that ends the Church Age on Earth.  It’s a little like the final bell in the school I attended.  As long as we were in our seat when the final bell rang we were not tardy and were allowed into class. But if we got there after the final bell we would find the door closed and the class would begin without us.  In the same way, there will be believers after the last trump but they won’t be part of the Church.  They will have come to faith too late. Scholars call them Tribulation believers for that reason.

 

 ::reading::I can not find that, will you help me?

RB

You dont have a Bible? 

1 Corinthians 15:52

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
 
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 ::amen!::
Nope.  Nothing about the end of the church age there or whatever you are talking about...must be some kind of doctrine that you made up. ::smile::

I love you guys.  You are gonna be so happily surprised when Jesus snatches you away at the Rapture you dont believe in and we all get to celebrate the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and laugh about the sill differences we had on earth.  None of this has anything to do with our Salvation, so it's no big deal.   ::clappingoverhead::
Thanks Stucky.  Yes i will be surprised if some kind of pre-tribulation escape occurs since it is the opposite of what scripture teaches.  And when it doesn't happen like your hopes and dreams tell you it will and you are discouraged i will be there to encourage you and support you and to tell you hey brother it was not even scriptural to begin with so cheer up.  At least my surprise will be a happy one if i am wrong and yours will be bitter disappointment...it is a win win for me.  ::disco::

Thanks for your OPINION Grappler and God bless you, brother.  If I am wrong, it wont faze me in the least.  I am prepared to suffer for my Lord, but, until then I will continue to believe that Jesus did notset up His Vhurch just to see it suffer through the tribulation and will rescue us just as He rescued Noah and his family from the great deluge and Lot and his family from the destruction of Sodom and Gommorah.  If you are so eager to go throught the Tribulation then thats fine, maybe you'll get your wish.  Until then, your OPINIONS are not binding on me.   ::disco::

Offline Grappler

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #401 on: Fri Feb 01, 2013 - 12:13:26 »
There are several opinions about the last trump in 1 Cor. 15:52, but in my view the most logical one is that it will be the trumpet that ends the Church Age on Earth.  It’s a little like the final bell in the school I attended.  As long as we were in our seat when the final bell rang we were not tardy and were allowed into class. But if we got there after the final bell we would find the door closed and the class would begin without us.  In the same way, there will be believers after the last trump but they won’t be part of the Church.  They will have come to faith too late. Scholars call them Tribulation believers for that reason.

 

 ::reading::I can not find that, will you help me?

RB

You dont have a Bible? 

1 Corinthians 15:52

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
 
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 ::amen!::
Nope.  Nothing about the end of the church age there or whatever you are talking about...must be some kind of doctrine that you made up. ::smile::

I love you guys.  You are gonna be so happily surprised when Jesus snatches you away at the Rapture you dont believe in and we all get to celebrate the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and laugh about the sill differences we had on earth.  None of this has anything to do with our Salvation, so it's no big deal.   ::clappingoverhead::
Thanks Stucky.  Yes i will be surprised if some kind of pre-tribulation escape occurs since it is the opposite of what scripture teaches.  And when it doesn't happen like your hopes and dreams tell you it will and you are discouraged i will be there to encourage you and support you and to tell you hey brother it was not even scriptural to begin with so cheer up.  At least my surprise will be a happy one if i am wrong and yours will be bitter disappointment...it is a win win for me.  ::disco::

Thanks for your OPINION Grappler and God bless you, brother.  If I am wrong, it wont faze me in the least.  I am prepared to suffer for my Lord, but, until then I will continue to believe that Jesus did notset up His Vhurch just to see it suffer through the tribulation and will rescue us just as He rescued Noah and his family from the great deluge and Lot and his family from the destruction of Sodom and Gommorah.  If you are so eager to go throught the Tribulation then thats fine, maybe you'll get your wish.  Until then, your OPINIONS are not binding on me.   ::disco::
Easy now don't get all sensitive on me.lol  Hey what is a Vhurch? ::smile::

Offline Stucky

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Re: RAPTURE QUESTIONS
« Reply #402 on: Fri Feb 01, 2013 - 12:42:32 »
There are several opinions about the last trump in 1 Cor. 15:52, but in my view the most logical one is that it will be the trumpet that ends the Church Age on Earth.  It’s a little like the final bell in the school I attended.  As long as we were in our seat when the final bell rang we were not tardy and were allowed into class. But if we got there after the final bell we would find the door closed and the class would begin without us.  In the same way, there will be believers after the last trump but they won’t be part of the Church.  They will have come to faith too late. Scholars call them Tribulation believers for that reason.

 

 ::reading::I can not find that, will you help me?

RB

You dont have a Bible? 

1 Corinthians 15:52

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
 
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 ::amen!::
Nope.  Nothing about the end of the church age there or whatever you are talking about...must be some kind of doctrine that you made up. ::smile::

I love you guys.  You are gonna be so happily surprised when Jesus snatches you away at the Rapture you dont believe in and we all get to celebrate the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and laugh about the sill differences we had on earth.  None of this has anything to do with our Salvation, so it's no big deal.   ::clappingoverhead::
Thanks Stucky.  Yes i will be surprised if some kind of pre-tribulation escape occurs since it is the opposite of what scripture teaches.  And when it doesn't happen like your hopes and dreams tell you it will and you are discouraged i will be there to encourage you and support you and to tell you hey brother it was not even scriptural to begin with so cheer up.  At least my surprise will be a happy one if i am wrong and yours will be bitter disappointment...it is a win win for me.  ::disco::

Thanks for your OPINION Grappler and God bless you, brother.  If I am wrong, it wont faze me in the least.  I am prepared to suffer for my Lord, but, until then I will continue to believe that Jesus did notset up His Vhurch just to see it suffer through the tribulation and will rescue us just as He rescued Noah and his family from the great deluge and Lot and his family from the destruction of Sodom and Gommorah.  If you are so eager to go throught the Tribulation then thats fine, maybe you'll get your wish.  Until then, your OPINIONS are not binding on me.   ::disco::
Easy now don't get all sensitive on me.lol  Hey what is a Vhurch? ::smile::

Calm down Grappler.   It's called a "typo".  I know you've never heard of typos before so here is the definition of a typo:

ty·po (tp)
n. pl. ty·pos Informal
A typographical error.

Let me know if you need anymore help?   ::reading::

 

     
anything