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Offline LaSpino3

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Setting dates:
« on: Wed Nov 29, 2017 - 11:38:42 »
We are all familiar with the following verses. Jesus was asked two questions in Acts 1 concerning his return.

Jesus replies, Mark 13:32, “But of that day (Jesus return to judge the world and fully establish His kingdom,) and that hour (a definite division of the day; as morning, noon, evening, night) knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take you (the disciples) heed, watch and pray: for you (disciples) know not when the time (2540) is.”

This verse is speaking to the Jews concerning the kingdom, not the “catching away” of the church. This was a Jewish question, a question to which Jesus gave no answer.

Matt.25:13, Watch therefore, for you (Jews) know neither the day (Jesus return to judge the world and establish his kingdom) not the hour (hour meaning the division of a day; as morning, noon, evening, night) wherein the Son of man comes."

Date setting by “date setters” for Jesus second coming have come and gone over the years. And because we are still standing here, obviously they have all failed. William Miller a Baptist preacher predicted Christ’s return on earth in the year 1843, this based upon his study of Daniel 8, concerning the “cleansing of the sanctuary.” He had concluded this phrase meant the cleansing of the world. And when the time came with no results, Jesus return was moved to 1844, but that also was another failed attempt.

Miller was followed by Taze Russell, the founder of the Jehovah Witnesses. Russel’s first attempt concerning the Lord’s return was predicted to be 1914. This was moved forward to 1918, then 1925 then 1975 and finally 1986. Today the Jehovah Witnesses scorn at any attempt to predict the time of the Lord’s return. But what can anyone expect from a cult that denies the person of the Holy Spirit and the denial that Jesus Christ is God, the Creator.

Some have based their predictions on the study of the stars, the planets, Pyramidology, the Incas predictions, the Bible Codes, and in many cases, verses have been explained out of context. Did these predictors of the future take enough time to examine the Scriptures carefully? Had they jumped to unprovable conclusions in order to sell books or make Television appearances?

Now, because of all the failed attempts, is it wrong to continue to examine scriptures with the idea of finding a possible month or year for the Lord’s return?

Many have pointed to the Second coming of Christ but not the “catching away of the body of Christ coming first,” in this they error. The false teaching that Jesus would send his bride into the time of His wrath and vexation is nonsense. The rapture 1 Thes.4:16-17, and the second coming of Christ (Zeck.14:1-4) are two different events taking place seven years apart. Today, most of us who study end time prophesy do agree, we are living in the last days. 

Although Scriptures clearly places the occurrence of these prophetic events in the near future, a major component to understanding end time prophesy occurred in May of 1948. Israel became a nation in one day. May 14th in the evening, to May 15th in the evening as prophesied in 1948. This fulfilled many O.T. promises made by God Himself. The return of Israel as a nation clearly defines that we are now standing in the last of the last days.

Israel’s return to the land is paramount. Also prophesied was the return of the once dead language of Hebrew to the Jews; the return of the shekel; fresh water in the land; agriculture; the building of cities, etc. Israel is surrounded by it’s enemies. It has one friend left in the world, that being Christian’s. Once the Christian community is removed from off the planet, Israel will stand alone, and in their vexation, they will cry out to the Lord. He will hear them, then said, "I will be their God and they will be my people.”
Laspino3

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Setting dates:
« on: Wed Nov 29, 2017 - 11:38:42 »

bond

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Re: Setting dates:
« Reply #1 on: Wed Nov 29, 2017 - 16:32:48 »
Jesus replies, Mark 13:32, “But of that day (Jesus return to judge the world and fully establish His kingdom,) and that hour (a definite division of the day; as morning, noon, evening, night) knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take you (the disciples) heed, watch and pray: for you (disciples) know not when the time (2540) is.”

This verse is speaking to the Jews concerning the kingdom, not the “catching away” of the church. This was a Jewish question, a question to which Jesus gave no answer.

Quote from: Mark 13
26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

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Re: Setting dates:
« Reply #1 on: Wed Nov 29, 2017 - 16:32:48 »

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Setting dates:
« Reply #2 on: Thu Nov 30, 2017 - 11:19:52 »
Bond, not sure of what your taking about, but, concerning the elect of Mark 13, if you're implying its the church, it's not!

Rev.7:1-2,-3 "I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth" ---- the 144,000 are gathered from around the world (four winds) first to be  sealed --- with the seal of God in their foreheads. Then will be gathered a second time to be with the Lord, see,

Rev.14, these (144,000) are "redeemed from the earth, they will not have been defiled by women, they are virgins, they follow the Lamb where ever he goes. They will be redeemed from among men, they are the first fruits unto God (the Father) and the Lamb (Jesus Christ.)"

This is what Mark is talking about, these are the elect of God. The church is his bride.

Laspino3

Offline RB

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Re: Setting dates:
« Reply #3 on: Thu Nov 30, 2017 - 12:59:56 »
Bond, not sure of what your taking about, but, concerning the elect of Mark 13, if you're implying its the church, it's not!

Rev.7:1-2,-3 "I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth" ---- the 144,000 are gathered from around the world (four winds) first to be  sealed --- with the seal of God in their foreheads. Then will be gathered a second time to be with the Lord, see,

Rev.14, these (144,000) are "redeemed from the earth, they will not have been defiled by women, they are virgins, they follow the Lamb where ever he goes. They will be redeemed from among men, they are the first fruits unto God (the Father) and the Lamb (Jesus Christ.)"

This is what Mark is talking about, these are the elect of God. The church is his bride.
Phil, The "very" elect, is the true church, both OT and NT believers. Israel of old "only" foreshallowed the very elect.
Quote from: Jesus
Matthew 24:24~"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
"Very"~meaning the natural Isreal were only a type of them, it is true some among them belong to the very elect, those who were the children of God's promises, and not all were as we know from Paul in Romans nine and Galatians four.

Sir, even the scriptures you quoted above proves more than you would want them to prove to prove you to be confused concerning this subject.

One more thought, if I may~the very elect are the bride of Christ, both OT saints and NT saints. You CANNOT separate us from Abraham's seed, which IS Christ. The promises were made to all of the elect as a body/temple of God not made with hands. Read John seventeen and see if this is not so~for a starting place, but there are hundreds of scriptures supporting this blessed truth.
« Last Edit: Thu Nov 30, 2017 - 13:10:34 by RB »

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Re: Setting dates:
« Reply #3 on: Thu Nov 30, 2017 - 12:59:56 »
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bond

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Re: Setting dates:
« Reply #4 on: Fri Dec 01, 2017 - 05:14:02 »
Phil, I was trying to be gentle...you took one verse out of context.  Your interpretation conflicts with what the rest of the chapter says.

The elect and the bride are one in the same, both refer to the Church. 

It's clear you disagree, so instead of going further, I will simply ask anyone reading this thread to read ALL of Mark 13.

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Re: Setting dates:
« Reply #4 on: Fri Dec 01, 2017 - 05:14:02 »



Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Setting dates:
« Reply #5 on: Tue Dec 05, 2017 - 14:00:46 »
Bond: Let's start off with the basics. There is not one word in all of the books of Mark, Matthew, Luke or John concerning the Gentile church. Understanding that will be a good start.

Also, there is absolutely nothing, not one word in Mark concerning the Gentile christian church. As for the word elect, synonyms are chosen, beloved, favored, cherished of God.Now let's see if that applies to the Jews.

Isa.45:4, "For Jacob my servant's sake and Israel mine elect ---."

Isa.65:22, "Mine (God's) elect (the Jews) shall long enjoy the work of their hands."

Ps.105:6, "O ye seed (the Jews) of Abraham his servant, you children of Jacob his chosen (elect)." 

1 Chro.16:13, "O you seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones."

You quoted this verse,
Matthew 24:24~"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Mark 8:11-12, The Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign , Jesus replied speaking of he Jews, "Why does this generation (of Jews) seek after a sign?"

Mark 13:4, His disciple on the Mt. of Olives asked Jesus, "What shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled.?

Jews always saught after a sign or a miracle, but Christian's should never look for signs of Jesus return, because we live by God's word and by faith, not signs.

Also when were raptured before the tribulation, there is no way any Christian can  be deceived by any signs, wonders, miracle worker, ant-christ, or slick talking preacher.

As far as being gentile with me, this old tough Marine has seen the worst of people. And after 28 years in professional sports, I've heard and seen it all, and as far as my outside shell, spent a few years boxing, didn't do bad either.

Phil

bond

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Re: Setting dates:
« Reply #6 on: Tue Dec 05, 2017 - 15:33:36 »
I wasn't being gentle for your sake, but for mine.

I get irritated when people claim to have the sole truth, yet speak directly contrary to what Scripture says.

You cherry pick verses, looking for specific words in a specific translation.  You are using the Bible to support your pre-conceived notions, instead of developing your notions from the Bible.  I don't care how old you are, that's wrong.

I could go through and post new testament verses where "elect" refers to the gentile church, but I won't.  I'll simply re-iterate that anyone following this thread should read all of Mark 13.

In fact, any time you post any verse, it would be a good idea to read the entire chapter to see what the context is.

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Setting dates:
« Reply #7 on: Wed Dec 06, 2017 - 11:15:02 »
Bond you're so far off base, you're arguments are old stuff, you need new material.

1. I use the K.J.B. only.

2. Never said I have the sole truth.

3. "Cherry Pick"? If you mean , am I thorough? Of course I am, to many false teachers out there now.

4. Never said "elect" did  not apply to the chruch, all I did was show you the word elect is also applied to believing Jews in the O.T.

Let me give you another esample:

Matt.27 52-53. Jesus had died on the cross, and three days later was raised from the grave, We are told, AFTER Jesus resurrection, "many of the bodies of the SAINTS which slept (had died) arose (WERE MADE ALIVE AGAIN). They (these saints) came out of the graves and went into the holy city (Jerusalem,) and appeared (were witnessed) by many."

These obviously had to be O.T. Jews because the Gentile church was still 6 years in the future. The word saints in this verse means exactly what the word "elect" means. Pure, clean, perfect, without blemish.   

5. You may find this hard to believe, "I take my Bible studies very, very seriously, there's to much at stake not to!"

What you obviously will never admit is, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written only to the Jews, who were still under law, and that the whole of Jesus earthly ministry pertained to the Jews only, and Jesus also was under the law, because he fulfilled the whole of the Jewish law. Jesus came only "to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." And just before the cross, on the Mt. of Olives he told his disciples, "Your house (the 12 tribes) is left unto you desolate."  Some 1900 Years ago, God abandoned the Jews, but their condition will change soon.

There is not one word in these 4 gospels concerning the church, nothing!

Now, when you ever get over that hurdle, you may want to continue this discussion.

One more thing, you need to learn to respond to the posts that have responded to your posts, this way we both have some ground to work with. Put more effort in that, instead of trying so hard to put people down in order to defend you own postition.

I'm still open to any commets you make, that is if you wish to continue this discussion, if not, we can both move on.

Phil

bond

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Re: Setting dates:
« Reply #8 on: Wed Dec 06, 2017 - 12:21:03 »
AHHH....it all makes sense now...you are a KJV only-ist...

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Setting dates:
« Reply #9 on: Wed Dec 06, 2017 - 17:55:24 »
Bond, there you go again, I have 26 different Bibles at home, and at least 30 commentaries + another 400 books. I use them all, but when I post a subject, I quote from the K.J.B. And if two should disagree, I will then use the K.J.B. Why? because after 30 years of Bible study, I have never found one, not one error.

Look, were both supposed to be Christian's, brothers in Christ. Yes we may disagree on certain particulars, but that's the whole purpose of this board.

Let me post my stand.

I believe the whole of scripture is God breathed and every word has been dictated by God to the writers of each and every book.
I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
I believe in Jesus death, burial and resurrection.
I believe Jesus is going to return to take His bride away from this earth and from his wrath to come.
I understand Israel plays a big part in end time prophesy. Just what happened today with Trump supporting Jerusalem to be Israel's capital is proof enough.
I believe God created the heaven and the earth.
I believe the Adam and Eve were cast from the garden some 6000 years ago.
i believe in the literal flood.
The return of man from the curse began with Abraham, then Isaac, Jacob, his 12 sons, David, Jesus, the 12 apostles, Paul's ministry to the Gentiles, and the Christian church.

That's my take, can't make it any clearer than that.

Phil


 

     
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