The 7 Year Tribulation Period is a False Doctrine!!

[Eccl12:13]

No....the Bible tells us to flee when the AOD is set up.  That happens at the midpoint of the tribulation.  If you read Daniel, you see the anti-christ will broker a peace deal with Isreal

First let's stick with what the bible says.  Let's read;

Dan.9
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


The vision is about, "thy people", "thy city" and "the most holy".  That is all.  At no point does Gabriel mention anything about the AOD.  If he does please direct me to the verse.

Since we now know who and what the vision is about let's continue;

[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

The scripture says confirm, NOT broker.

To confirm means "to make certain that a tentative arrangement or one made earlier is firm"

At what time did the anti-christ EVER make an earlier deal with the nation of Israel?

Again, please direct me to book, chapter and verse when you find it.

Think about this for a moment;

Who was it that made a covenant with Israel in the wilderness?

Who's ministry was for 3.5yrs?

Who was cut off/killed but not for himself?

What was torn in two the moment Jesus died, ending sacrifices and oblations?

ALL of these point to one person and one person ONLY.....Jesus Christ!


Again, PROVE to me this is the antichrist spoken of in THIS vision.  In the one Daniel had in the 11th chapter yes!  But in the 9th chapter of Daniel...NO WAY!


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[Eccl12:13]

Not sure what to make of that last part.  Are you saying the "safe place" is for every single Christian on the planet?  Have you identified where it is? 

In Christ,
KP

I am not saying it.  God's word tells us so.

Rev.12
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

And again;

[14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

God will prepare a place of safety in the wilderness for the church.

Will it be for ALL of the church?  No!  Only for those with wisdom and understanding.  There will be some that know about it, but for whatever reason they will not flee.  Let's read;

[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And this is where the danger lies when believing in a (7) year tribulation period.

We are to flee AS SOON as the man of sin is placed in the temple of God.

How about this.....let's look at the course of events that will take place, then YOU decide what it is you want to do;

1.  The temple WILL be built in Jerusalem.

2.  Daily sacrifices WILL start.

3.  The desert areas in the wilderness surrounding Jerusalem WILL start to grow vegatation and water will come forth.

4.  A man WILL be placed in the temple.

5.  At that moment you WILL hear of people leaving their homes, jobs even families and gather in the mountains surrounding Jerusalem.

So tell me........when ALL of these things happen......what will you do?

Will you WAIT, thinking you have another 3yrs before the real trouble starts?

Or will you be one of the ones that the dragon goes after.

BTW....let's read the fate of the saints that are NOT in God's place of safety;

Dan.7
[21] I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

And again;

Rev.13
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:


So tell me.....are you 100% sure you  have 3.5yrs to wait?  You and your families life will depend upon it!  What happens if you are wrong?  This IS NOT something you can afford to make a mistake about.

Think about this....If you are NOT in God's place of safety how will you live for the next 3.5yrs?

Do you think your friends and those living next to you will help?  Will they risk their lives helping you and YOUR family?  Remember now......you will need some sort of mark to buy AND sell, no matter how rich or who you are!

Your choice will be to take the mark, or die for the name of Christ!

Readers,,,,,think about it....please!!!!!!



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[BondServant]

Ok, first of all, you are not going by what God's Word says.  You are quoting a small piece of one Bible verse, telling us what it "means" and completely ignoring context...ignoring the rest of the chapter...ignoring the rest of the verse.  Please, READ the Bible for what it says, not what your theology says.

Second of all, you are playing games on semantics.  The NASB says, "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

If you want to go on discussing this, you must admit that YOU are the one who is teaching this...not God.

In Christ,
KP

[Eccl12:13]

Ok, first of all, you are not going by what God's Word says.  You are quoting a small piece of one Bible verse, telling us what it "means" and completely ignoring context...ignoring the rest of the chapter...ignoring the rest of the verse. 
KP

I am only quoting what the angel Gabriel said.  Let's read it again;

Dan.9
21] Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
[22] And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

So Gabriel came to give Daniel an answer to his question.  Now let's read what it was Jeremiah wrote about;

[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

You say I am quoting a small piece, when in fact I have gone to find just what the angel said the vision is about.

You say I am ignoring context and the rest of the chapter, when in fact, I have put what Gabriel said and applied it to the ONLY person these things can be talking about.

Please direct me to the part where Gabriel is speaking about the antichrist.  He ONLY speaks of "thy people", "thy city" and "the most Holy"!

You have not answered the following questions;

Who was it that made a covenant with Israel in the wilderness?

Who's ministry was for 3.5yrs?

Who was cut off/killed but not for himself?

What was torn in two the moment Jesus died, ending sacrifices and oblations?

ALL of these point to one person and one person ONLY.....Jesus Christ!  THE MOST HOLY!

ALL of the above IS the context of the vision.

How does the antichrist fit into ANYTHING spoken of in THIS vision?

[Bikelite]

The Bible clearly states this bride will not see the day of the lord.

[Eccl12:13]

The Bible clearly states this bride will not see the day of the lord.

This is true.  As long as the "bride" does what is needed.

Matt.25
[1] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
[2] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
[3] They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
[4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
[5] While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
[6] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
[7] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
[8] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
[9] But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
[10] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
[11] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
[12] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

The bottom line here is that ALL the virgins knew of the wedding.  But only those that took action and prepared for the wedding were let in.


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[rezar]

The Bible clearly states this bride will not see the day of the lord.

This is true.  As long as the "bride" does what is needed.

Matt.25
[1] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
[2] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
[3] They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
[4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
[5] While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
[6] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
[7] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
[8] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
[9] But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
[10] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
[11] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
[12] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

The bottom line here is that ALL the virgins knew of the wedding.  But only those that took action and prepared for the wedding were let in.


.

The Bride overcame.  And Jesus received unto Himself those- the first-fruits of the Spirit. The New Testament church in heaven. Now, they were the first-fruit harvest at the end of the Jewish age.

Harvest was at that time in the spiritual realm. First was the natural, then the spiritual.  We don't end back in the natural or flesh again after we have crucified the old man. We are lifted up to sit with Christ in the heavenly realms. Our citizenship is in heaven. Just like the first-fruit church.

[Eccl12:13]

The Bride overcame.  And Jesus received unto Himself those- the first-fruits of the Spirit. The New Testament church in heaven. Now, they were the first-fruit harvest at the end of the Jewish age.

Harvest was at that time in the spiritual realm. First was the natural, then the spiritual.  We don't end back in the natural or flesh again after we have crucified the old man. We are lifted up to sit with Christ in the heavenly realms. Our citizenship is in heaven. Just like the first-fruit church.

I need scriptures saying what you just said.  Your words mean NOTHIING! 

1 Thes.5 [21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

2 Tim.4 ... make full proof of thy ministry.

2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If what you say is true PROVE IT TO ME WITH THE WORD OF GOD!


.

[rezar]

The Bride overcame.  And Jesus received unto Himself those- the first-fruits of the Spirit. The New Testament church in heaven. Now, they were the first-fruit harvest at the end of the Jewish age.

Harvest was at that time in the spiritual realm. First was the natural, then the spiritual.  We don't end back in the natural or flesh again after we have crucified the old man. We are lifted up to sit with Christ in the heavenly realms. Our citizenship is in heaven. Just like the first-fruit church.

I need scriptures saying what you just said.  Your words mean NOTHIING! 

1 Thes.5 [21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

2 Tim.4 ... make full proof of thy ministry.

2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If what you say is true PROVE IT TO ME WITH THE WORD OF GOD!


.

I forgot to answer, sorry.  The "Bride" of the 1st century was Jew & Gentile in Christ. The church, the body.
We are always joining as a bride when each die separately- to Jesus in heaven.
http://www.newjerusalemcommunity.net/?c=53&a=2217

[Eccl12:13]

The Bride overcame.  And Jesus received unto Himself those- the first-fruits of the Spirit. The New Testament church in heaven. Now, they were the first-fruit harvest at the end of the Jewish age.

Harvest was at that time in the spiritual realm. First was the natural, then the spiritual.  We don't end back in the natural or flesh again after we have crucified the old man. We are lifted up to sit with Christ in the heavenly realms. Our citizenship is in heaven. Just like the first-fruit church.

I need scriptures saying what you just said.  Your words mean NOTHIING! 

1 Thes.5 [21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

2 Tim.4 ... make full proof of thy ministry.

2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If what you say is true PROVE IT TO ME WITH THE WORD OF GOD!


.

I forgot to answer, sorry.  The "Bride" of the 1st century was Jew & Gentile in Christ. The church, the body.
We are always joining as a bride when each die separately- to Jesus in heaven.
http://www.newjerusalemcommunity.net/?c=53&a=2217

Like I said....scriptures is what proves the word of God.  Show me through scripture the church being in heaven.

[rezar]

The Bride overcame.  And Jesus received unto Himself those- the first-fruits of the Spirit. The New Testament church in heaven. Now, they were the first-fruit harvest at the end of the Jewish age.

Harvest was at that time in the spiritual realm. First was the natural, then the spiritual.  We don't end back in the natural or flesh again after we have crucified the old man. We are lifted up to sit with Christ in the heavenly realms. Our citizenship is in heaven. Just like the first-fruit church.

I need scriptures saying what you just said.  Your words mean NOTHIING! 

1 Thes.5 [21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

2 Tim.4 ... make full proof of thy ministry.

2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If what you say is true PROVE IT TO ME WITH THE WORD OF GOD!


.

I forgot to answer, sorry.  The "Bride" of the 1st century was Jew & Gentile in Christ. The church, the body.
We are always joining as a bride when each die separately- to Jesus in heaven.
http://www.newjerusalemcommunity.net/?c=53&a=2217

Like I said....scriptures is what proves the word of God.  Show me through scripture the church being in heaven.

I'll quote from the article, i guess you missed it the 1st time. It does contain the scripture you need. James spoke of the 1st born-again Christians as a "kind of firstfruits" (Jm.1:18)
Firstfruits and Revelation

The term is also used of those in the book of Revelation. This is a backhand slap to the Rapture Ready crowd and to any who would interpret the Apocalypse in a present day contemporary setting attempting force on that prophesy, a twenty first century interpretation and application.

The problem with doing that contradicts the whole idea and concept of the firstfruits! Contrary to Jehovah’s Witnesses and Rapture enthusiasts, the 144,000 of Revelation chapter seven and those who stand before the throne in the vision’s imagery are the first fruits of Zion.

In Hebrews, Paul spoke of those living in his day who had come to Mt. Zion, calling them the church of the firstborn ones, Heb. 12:22, 23. That makes them identical to those in Revelation. Note the innumerable company per Hebrews 12:22.

But observe chapter 14:

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.”

Compare what is said of the 144,000 in Rev. 7:3–4 regarding being sealed in their foreheads.

They are the firstfruits. Therefore, the 144,000 are first century Christians. But note that the 144,000 are those who come out of the great tribulation, (7:14).

Since the 144,000 are first century Christians being the firstfruits, and since they came out of the great tribulation, that means that the great tribulation occurred in the first century! That is precisely what Christ said in Matthew 24:21, 34.

That generation would not pass until all things took place! That included the great tribulation. It is past not future and belongs to the historical time frame of the firstborn Christians.

[larry2]

Like I said....scriptures is what proves the word of God.  Show me through scripture the church being in heaven.

Dear Eccl12:13, you're right; scripture proves the word of God if you're willing to listen to it.

John describes the following saints as he sees them shown to him in heaven. Who do you say the 24 Elders, the four living ones, the great multitude, and the 144,000 are; are they not the Church?

We read in Revelation 4:1, Jesus tells John; "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Notice that John said that he saw a door opened in heaven, next he was invited by Jesus to go up there, and then he would be shown things that would come after that.

 

[larry2]

The Bible clearly states this bride will not see the day of the lord.

Do you have scripture to support that conclusion? My hope is to present with Jesus on the Lord's day. Thanks.

[rezar]

Dear brother larry2,

The saints are not "in heaven" in Rev.4:1 literally nor is  Rev. chronological. It's a book of 7's. Ezekiel was also taken in the spirit to see "the land of Israel" - it was just a vision & a hope for when the remnant returned to the land (the earth) after rising up from the dead in exile.
In Rev.4:1, it is certainly not the "last trumpet" where the dead of all times were raised from Hades.
It is the PRAYERS of the saints which we note- a the Lion of Judah who would open the scroll in Israel's last days. In Rev.4:1- it is only the prayers of the saints that begin to be answered. The cry of the martyrs say too they want God to avenge for their blood on earth.  
The saints go into the great tribulation. The 144k & the great multitude of Gentiles "come out of " the great tribulation." Christ would send His angels & gather His elect after the distress of those days.

In Rev.4:1, in the throne room, the saints are not depicted. Again. Their prayers are there, but they "shall reign on earth" in Rev.5:10, shows they are not in heaven literally until after the 6th seal- when the day of the Lord effects the land (the earth)
Rev. is a book of 7's. You're not going to reconcile the 1900 dream of the Catholic girl to anyone much today. Not many believe the disp. pov any more, bc it's silly & childish to say the least.

"We shall reign on earth."  Rev.5:10, shows that even prior to each repetitive calamity of sevens, the saints are not in heaven until after the tribulation begins.

To "come out of the great tribulation" means one had to have been in it for a least a short time.

Yes, but the Lord did shorten those days for the elect's sake.

[Eccl12:13]

Like I said....scriptures is what proves the word of God.  Show me through scripture the church being in heaven.

John describes the following saints as he sees them shown to him in heaven. Who do you say the 24 Elders, the four living ones, the great multitude, and the 144,000 are; are they not the Church?

Notice that John said that he saw a door opened in heaven, next he was invited by Jesus to go up there, and then he would be shown things that would come after that.

 

So are you saying the events that happened AFTER the 4th chapter are visions, are real or what?  Just trying to see your perspective.

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