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Offline elijah_101

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The Church is not Raptured
« on: Sat Sep 12, 2009 - 17:41:46 »
The Rapture is false

Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. Rev 7:3

the Elect obey God and Keep his commandments words and sayings John 14:14-23 (KJV) John 8:43 (KJV), So the Lord will Seal them because of the obediece to him

Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. 21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
Isaiah 26:20-21 (KJV)

A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.Psalms 91:7-8 (KJV)

before you say this, you must know when the Tribulations will start,

and who the church is,

and Know when Jesus shall return, and the scriptures says after the tribulations

In verse 21, Jesus said this is the beginning of the Tribulations, When Jerusalem is compassed with armies

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Luke 21:20


Verse 16 this is the Church


16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Now Jesus is telling these people in Judaea to flee into the mountains, because God has a place prepared in the wilderness, this is the Church Jesus is talking about

as it says in Zech 14:1-5 (KJV)

And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:14 (KJV)

The Church Rev 12:6 (KJV) Rev 12:14 (KJV

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. Rev 12:6 (KJV)

Now who Fless into the wilderness?

let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains

Now note This

This is when Satan is Cast down, because the Church is reborn,

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:9 (KJV)

No were in the scriptures does it say the church is Raptured , God Prepared a Place for them in the Wilderness.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev 12:17 (KJV)

Please read carefuly

but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye1 Cor 15:51-52 (KJV)

we shall be Changed, the scripture does not say we will go to heaven

we will be Changed from mortal to immortality.1 Cor 15:53 (KJV) those who are Alive and Remaining shall be calught up to Meet the Lord in the Air, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committ
Jude 1:15 (KJV)


Even the sinners shall be Changed


And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Rev 9:6 (KJV)


For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord 1 Thess 4:15 (KJV)


Now when Is Jesus coming?


Immediately after the tribulation Matt 24:27-31 (KJV)


Now who are these in sleep in Jesus 1 Thess 4:14 (KJV)


We Know when Jesus Died on the Cross he went to hell that day as the Scripture says in Jonah 2:1 (KJV) Matt 12:40 (KJV)

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison 1 Peter 3:19 (KJV)

That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves.

Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:8-9 (KJV)

To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. Isaiah 42:7

Jesus Took all of those that Believe In Him out of captivity And

Put them in another captivity **Were They are today** sleep in Jesus 1 Thess 4:14 (KJV) These People are all those before Christ

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God

the dead in Christ shall rise first 1 Thess 4:16 (KJV)

Which will happen when Jesus returns Immediately after the tribulation

all the apostles and prophet, that gave their life for God, will be there in this day


Now who are these that are alive and remaining?


These are they which came out of great tribulation Rev 7:14 (KJV)

Rev 19:11 (KJV) Is the Saints, these are they which are alive and remain

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Now this is the meeting in the air

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jude 1:14-15 (KJV)

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?

and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 1 Cor 6:2-3 (KJV)

How can the saints Judge the world if they are in Heaven?

and why would Jesus bring the sleeping Jesus with him when he comes?

if every one is Going to heaven?

Dont you know heaven is Coming here on earth? that God is going to set up his city made with out hands, here on earth

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:2 (KJV)

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The Church is not Raptured
« on: Sat Sep 12, 2009 - 17:41:46 »

Offline Kevin-2012

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #1 on: Sat Sep 12, 2009 - 20:54:16 »
my friend please go to the-end.com

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #1 on: Sat Sep 12, 2009 - 20:54:16 »

Offline elijah_101

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #2 on: Sun Sep 13, 2009 - 20:27:39 »
my friend please go to the-end.com

no thanks my bible will do

larry2

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #3 on: Sun Sep 13, 2009 - 20:59:42 »

The Rapture is false


Then who are those of Revelation 3:10 kept from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth?

In Jesus' name - larry2

« Last Edit: Fri Sep 18, 2009 - 18:47:15 by larry2 »

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #3 on: Sun Sep 13, 2009 - 20:59:42 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Amo

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #4 on: Sun Sep 13, 2009 - 22:06:48 »
Quote
Then who are those of Revelation 3:10 kept from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth?

They are members of the Christian church during the sixth age of the church from the days of Christ, to the end of the world.  Preceding of course Laodicea, the seventh and final age of the Christian church before the end of the world, who will pass through the great tribulation.  There is no mention of a rapture to take away the members of Philadelphia.  Their church age simply ends before the tribulation.


1Thes 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

There most certainly will be a rapture.  Though there is much debate about it being before or after the great tribulation.  For some reason, some think that they will be excluded from having to face real persecution for their faith, while all other Christians throughout history have had to do so.



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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #4 on: Sun Sep 13, 2009 - 22:06:48 »



Offline elijah_101

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #5 on: Tue Sep 15, 2009 - 23:47:14 »

The Rapture is false


Then who are those of Revelation 3:10 kept from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth?

In Jesus' name - larry2





Those who see the Great Tribulations coming and keep the Commandments words and sayings of God will excape the the hour of temptation, in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

Jesus warns us, Jesus said And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Luke 21:34-36

This is why the Scripture says

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.1 Thess 5:4-5

Only those who keep the Commandments words and sayings of God is the Elect John 14:15-23 John 8:51 Revelation 14:12 and because we Keep the commandments words and sayings God will keep us from the hour of temptation

as the Scripture says

Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Isaiah 26:20-21

A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.Psalms 91:7-8

The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe.Prov 29:25

Amo

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #6 on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 10:48:21 »
Quote
Those who see the Great Tribulations coming and keep the Commandments words and sayings of God will excape the the hour of temptation, in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It seems from the above, that it is those who keep the commandments, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ, that the dragon makes war with.  Yet you seem to be saying, that they will not have to fight this war, or go through the hour of temptation.  Tell me if you can, who but those who are concerned about keeping the commandments of God, are even able to be tempted?  Those who are not concerned about keeping the commandments, are not tempted, they simply do whatever they want, when ever they want.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


Again, from the above scriptures, it seems that those who keep the commandments of God are right in the thick of the battle.  This is just as it has always been from the beginning of the fall, and will continue to be until Christ returns for His own.

Matt 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.


God's people will go through persecution as they always have.  Nothing more fully proves their faith.  Nor is the reward of any greater, than theirs for ding so.

Offline farouk

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Re: The Church is not Raptured (?!!)
« Reply #7 on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 10:50:13 »
1 Thess. 4 speaks of the Lord's coming for His church, sometimes referred to as the Rapture.

ex cathedra

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #8 on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 19:02:13 »
1 Thess. 4 speaks of the Lord's coming for His church, sometimes referred to as the Rapture.


Amen
 The catching up on the last day when history ends ,
and we are with the creator of time where we no longer will be subject to time.

Offline rezar

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #9 on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 19:39:03 »
1 Thess. 4 speaks of the Lord's coming for His church, sometimes referred to as the Rapture.



Amen
 The catching up on the last day when history ends ,
and we are with the creator of time where we no longer will be subject to time.


I hope we didn't get blown up! We didn't get blown up, did we Charlie?!


Offline elijah_101

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #10 on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 20:14:38 »
Quote
Then who are those of Revelation 3:10 kept from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth?

They are members of the Christian church during the sixth age of the church from the days of Christ, to the end of the world.  Preceding of course Laodicea, the seventh and final age of the Christian church before the end of the world, who will pass through the great tribulation.  There is no mention of a rapture to take away the members of Philadelphia.  Their church age simply ends before the tribulation.


1Thes 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

There most certainly will be a rapture.  Though there is much debate about it being before or after the great tribulation.  For some reason, some think that they will be excluded from having to face real persecution for their faith, while all other Christians throughout history have had to do so.




all this takes place 1Thes 4:13-18 after the Tribulations

Jesus tells us when he returns i don't understand why people can't see it, maybe thye don't want to accept the truth

Read what Jesus said

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:29-30

Again

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

And THEN shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mark 13:24-26

After the TRIBULATIONS Jesus shall gather together his ELECT Matt 24:29-31 This is the meeting in the air which takes place after the Tribulations

this is the meeting in the AIR

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these,

saying, Behold,

the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all,

 and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jude 1:14-18

larry2

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #11 on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 20:37:41 »

Who were those that rose in Matthew 27:52? and how did they rise?

Who are those in the midst the throne in Revelation 4:6, and round bout the throne in Revelation 4:4 when Jesus receives His own throne in Revelation 4:2 prior to the tribulation beginning, and just how do they get there?

There are some that even come out of great tribulation and are before the throne of God in Revelation 7:14-15; how do they get there?

How does the Man Child of Revelation 12:5 get caught up to God, and to His throne?

In Jesus' name - larry2


Offline elijah_101

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #12 on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 22:10:47 »
Quote
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

who but those who are concerned about keeping the commandments of God, are even able to be tempted? .

The Church will suffer persecution all who keep the commandments of God will suffer persecution  

Who is concerned about keeping the commandments of God, all those who want everlasting life Matthew 19:17 John 12:50 by Keeping Gods commandments words and sayings

If ye love me, keep my commandments John 14:15

If a man love me, he will keep my words John 14:23

whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected 1 John 2:5

I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. John 8:51

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock Matt 7:24

his word, those who want to have the right to the tree of life and  to enter in through the Gates in that new city Revelation 22:14 that will set down in New Jerusalem when it come down out of heaven Rev 21:2

God Fixed us in Such a Way we have no Excuse to Sin...

Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
Isaiah 49:15

Do you not Realize , What God has Done for Us so that we cannot Sin , He will not Allow us to be Temped more than what we can take, But he is Faithful, And he will not Forget us when our Temptation Comes, God Makes a Way out of our Temptation ,so that we Can excape and Sin Not

God did This so we Can Not SIN, to Be as God is,- PERFECT

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. 1 Cor 10:13

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
James 1:13-16

So you See, That we have no Excuse, God is Faithful to Us, this is why the Word of God Says Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.James 4:7-10

but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Heb 10:38-39

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. James 1:12

Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy. James 5:11

Quote
Those who are not concerned about keeping the commandments, are not tempted, they simply do whatever they want, when ever they want

they are tempted by the cares of this world pulling them in the grip of satan John 8:34, by the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful Mark 4:19 therfore they do not care to please God so they do what ever they want, as long as God alows them to,

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.Gal 6:7

God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

 If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready.

He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors.
Psalms 7:11-13

it may look like they are geting by, but their not...

Quote
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Again, from the above scriptures, it seems that those who keep the commandments of God are right in the thick of the battle.  This is just as it has always been from the beginning of the fall, and will continue to be until Christ returns for His own.

God's people will go through persecution as they always have.  Nothing more fully proves their faith.  Nor is the reward of any greater, than theirs for ding so.

All will go throught the Tribulations cause Jesus comes after the Tribulations Matt 24:29-30  and if you are alive and remaining 1Thes 4:17 and keep the commandments words and sayings of God, you will be in that meeting in the air to judgment Jude 1:14

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thess 5:4

But some will be tempted to make them pure if they over come

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Rev 2:10

Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Dan 12:9-10

And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
Dan 11:35

And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.Zech 13:9

but many will lose their life





Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2 Tim 3:12

all of this happens with Israel When Jerusalem is compassed with armies and they are trodden down Luke 21:20  Luke 21:24

Christ tells the church

Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. Luke 21:21

To flee into the mountains

And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Zech 14:1

Which is the women

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. Rev 12:6

this is when the Church is Reborn Rev 12:2

This is when satan is cast down Revelation 12:9

then all Christian that keep the commandments of God will shall suffer persecution

And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:13

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.Rev 12:17

many will give their life for Christ, but they will rise First 1Thes 4:16

« Last Edit: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 22:48:13 by elijah_101 »

Offline elijah_101

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #13 on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 23:20:12 »
Quote
larry2
Who were those that rose in Matthew 27:52? and how did they rise?

They are in the sleep in Jesus 1 Thess 4:14 all those who Believed in Jesus, when Jesus  went  to Hell Jonah 2:1 Matt 12:40  to Preach to them Like King David

he went and preached unto the spirits in prison 1 Peter 3:19

As David Prayed

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psalms 16:10

Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
 
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Acts 2:29-35

Jesus Took all of those that Believe In Him out of captivity And

Put them in another captivity **Were They are today** sleep in Jesus 1 Thess 4:14 These People are all those before Christ

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God

the dead in Christ shall rise first 1 Thess 4:16

Which will happen when Jesus returns Immediately after the tribulation

all the apostles and prophet, that gave their life for God, will be there in this day
____________________________________________ _____________________

I will do a study on  Revelation Ch 4 and answer your Questions, bedtime now ::sleepingsoundly::

Offline rezar

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #14 on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 - 08:52:12 »
by elijah_101,
Quote
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psalms 16:10

There is no "hell" post-mortem. There is only the state of hell we can experience in this life.

"Hell" is mistranslated in our English Bibles. It's always "Sheol" or "Hades" the abode of the dead before Jesus emptied Hades & raised the dead to their eternal home in heaven in AD70.

One must be careful to note that Jesus too never went into "hell" or "ghenna fire" AKA the Lake of Fire. He went into Hades. The Lake of Fire was & is no more. It was a cursed place where the wicked Israelites who worshiped Molech in the OT were burned. This curse carried through to the end of the Jewish age. Their corpses would be in the valley of Hinnom. The Lake of Fire.

This is history. Abraham's bosom was emptied. We do not wait go to heaven when we die. Hades & death was thrown into the LOF. Our God is an all- consuming fire.

There is no "hell" in the afterlife. Praise God for His mercy endures forever!


Amo

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #15 on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 - 09:51:57 »
I also believe it will be after the tribulation elijah_101, but it is still a rapture.

Offline rezar

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #16 on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 - 11:32:42 »

There is no such thing as a rapture of the living. "Then" those who are alive & remain living on the earth after the great tribulation- they are "caught up" or Christ receives them when they die & not before.

Everyone will die. The point is is how gruesome or not your death will be.

If we hold onto Christ till the end, death may very well have no sting, as Paul says. Or lesser sting. He was closer to perfect than most of us. I'm counting on at least less sting than any unbeliever.



Amo

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #17 on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 - 21:36:54 »
1Thes 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.



Offline Jaime

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #18 on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 - 22:09:34 »
Darned scriptures.

Offline rezar

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #19 on: Fri Sep 18, 2009 - 10:30:30 »
Yes many have misplaced hope bc they read Paul's words hyperliterally. We reign in heavenly places now- but we have not been "literally raptured."  His words are spiritual. Note Eph.1:9-11,
9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,


The resurrection of the physically dead was absolute. But those alive only changed spiritually. Some are not satisfied for what God does, still looking for something more. More physical, more fleshly, more materialism.

But that IS all He wrote.  For some it is amazing grace though- potentially miracle working power.

Our reign was to definitely be on EARTH (& not taken out of this world, but kept from evil)

Rev.5:8-10,
Worthy Is the Lamb
   8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9 And they sang a new song, saying:
  “ You are worthy to take the scroll,
      And to open its seals;
      For You were slain,
      And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
      Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
       10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
      And we[c] shall reign on the earth.

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #20 on: Fri Sep 18, 2009 - 11:59:05 »
I had a feeling that spiritualizing scripture would come into play.

Amo

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #21 on: Fri Sep 18, 2009 - 12:17:23 »
Quote
Yes many have misplaced hope bc they read Paul's words hyperliterally. We reign in heavenly places now- but we have not been "literally raptured."  His words are spiritual. Note Eph.1:9-11,
9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

The resurrection of the physically dead was absolute. But those alive only changed spiritually. Some are not satisfied for what God does, still looking for something more. More physical, more fleshly, more materialism.

But that IS all He wrote.  For some it is amazing grace though- potentially miracle working power.

Our reign was to definitely be on EARTH (& not taken out of this world, but kept from evil)

Rev.5:8-10,
Worthy Is the Lamb
   8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9 And they sang a new song, saying:
  “ You are worthy to take the scroll,
      And to open its seals;
      For You were slain,
      And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
      Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
       10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
      And we[c] shall reign on the earth.

Offline rezar

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #22 on: Fri Sep 18, 2009 - 15:41:27 »


                   

son of God

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #23 on: Sat Sep 19, 2009 - 15:05:29 »
Hey, Rezar, one question here: where in the Word do you get the position that all must die?  It would be appreciated if you could give it for me.  Thanks.

Offline rezar

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #24 on: Sat Sep 19, 2009 - 15:55:56 »
Hey, Rezar, one question here: where in the Word do you get the position that all must die?  It would be appreciated if you could give it for me.  Thanks.
That depends what dying you're referring to. Certainly anyone who believes in Christ will live even though they die. But if you mean physically die, Heb.9:27 says: 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
We even have proof that the apostle John was not "raptured" if that were true of the then living & remaining saints. He died in old age, long after Jesus' second appearing. So, no one was "raptured" like Elijah or Enoch. 

Offline farouk

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #25 on: Sun Sep 20, 2009 - 04:17:59 »
Ms rezar:

Technically the word is 'translated',in reference to Enoch.

Hey, Rezar, one question here: where in the Word do you get the position that all must die?  It would be appreciated if you could give it for me.  Thanks.
That depends what dying you're referring to. Certainly anyone who believes in Christ will live even though they die. But if you mean physically die, Heb.9:27 says: 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
We even have proof that the apostle John was not "raptured" if that were true of the then living & remaining saints. He died in old age, long after Jesus' second appearing. So, no one was "raptured" like Elijah or Enoch. 

Offline rezar

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #26 on: Sun Sep 20, 2009 - 09:33:24 »
Ms rezar:

Technically the word is 'translated',in reference to Enoch.

Hey, Rezar, one question here: where in the Word do you get the position that all must die?  It would be appreciated if you could give it for me.  Thanks.
That depends what dying you're referring to. Certainly anyone who believes in Christ will live even though they die. But if you mean physically die, Heb.9:27 says: 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
We even have proof that the apostle John was not "raptured" if that were true of the then living & remaining saints. He died in old age, long after Jesus' second appearing. So, no one was "raptured" like Elijah or Enoch. 

OK, that should make me perfect now. Thanks.

Offline farouk

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #27 on: Sun Sep 20, 2009 - 14:49:40 »
Actually I believe the church will be raptured. (1 Thess. 4)

Offline rezar

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #28 on: Sun Sep 20, 2009 - 16:16:12 »
Actually, i don't think Paul meant "caught away, together to be with them" for the living at the time of the resurrection of the dead. Then those who are alive & remain (after the event of Christ raising the dead out of Hades- will be caught up together with our dead loved ones into the clouds of heaven also.
 Because of the Resurrection, we live on where Christ is. Only then is our soul made immortal.

Offline elijah_101

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #29 on: Sun Sep 20, 2009 - 18:42:58 »
by elijah_101,
Quote
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psalms 16:10

There is no "hell" post-mortem. There is only the state of hell we can experience in this life.

"Hell" is mistranslated in our English Bibles. It's always "Sheol" or "Hades" the abode of the dead before Jesus emptied Hades & raised the dead to their eternal home in heaven in AD70.

One must be careful to note that Jesus too never went into "hell" or "ghenna fire" AKA the Lake of Fire. He went into Hades. The Lake of Fire was & is no more. It was a cursed place where the wicked Israelites who worshiped Molech in the OT were burned. This curse carried through to the end of the Jewish age. Their corpses would be in the valley of Hinnom. The Lake of Fire.

This is history. Abraham's bosom was emptied. We do not wait go to heaven when we die. Hades & death was thrown into the LOF. Our God is an all- consuming fire.

There is no "hell" in the afterlife. Praise God for His mercy endures forever!



People can say the bible is mistranslated all they wan't but I believe the word of God, and not some man, more than likely its the man who reads the bible mistranslates it

Hell is going to enlarge it self for all the sinners in the world

 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.Isaiah 13:9

There is going to be so many dead on this earth

Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the sword of the LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace. And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth:

they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground. They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.

They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them. Isaiah 18:6


Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

 And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled: 16 But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.

 Then shall the lambs feed after their manner, and the waste places of the fat ones shall strangers eat. Isaiah 5:14-17

And after the 1,000 year reign Death and hell will be cast into the lake of fire death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:14

Offline elijah_101

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #30 on: Sun Sep 20, 2009 - 18:53:33 »
I also believe it will be after the tribulation elijah_101, but it is still a rapture.

I'm glad you can see the words of Jesus Christ, but I don't like to use the word rapture, because thats what the world uses and their preaching a false gospel, 

my bible says its a meeting in the air.  Which takes place after the Tribulations. thats when Jesus gathers his elect Matthew 24:29-31

to Judge the World Jude 1:14

the saints shall judge the world, Even Angles 1 Cor 6:2-3





Offline elijah_101

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #31 on: Sun Sep 20, 2009 - 18:56:42 »

There is no such thing as a rapture of the living. "Then" those who are alive & remain living on the earth after the great tribulation- they are "caught up" or Christ receives them when they die & not before.

Everyone will die. The point is is how gruesome or not your death will be.

If we hold onto Christ till the end, death may very well have no sting, as Paul says. Or lesser sting. He was closer to perfect than most of us. I'm counting on at least less sting than any unbeliever.



Not every one will die

Jesus said

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matt 16:28


What did Jesus say?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. John 8:51 (KJV)

Offline elijah_101

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #32 on: Sun Sep 20, 2009 - 19:07:19 »
Actually I believe the church will be raptured. (1 Thess. 4)

Were do you get that?

Jesus tells them to Flee into the mountains

Luke 21:20 Matt 24:15 Mark 13:14 Matt 24:16-18 Mark 13:14-16 Luke 21:21

And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Zech 14:1-5

How do I know its the Church?

The woman fled into the wilderness, the Women in Revelations is the CHURCH

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. Rev 12:6

They are Runing for their LIVES

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. 16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. 17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children. Isaiah 13:15-18

they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luke 21:24


Now why would they be fleeing into the Wilderness if they was going to be TAKEN? and why would GOD have a PLACE prepaird for them in the wilderness, if they was going to be so called raptured?









Offline rezar

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #33 on: Sun Sep 20, 2009 - 21:06:59 »

There is no such thing as a rapture of the living. "Then" those who are alive & remain living on the earth after the great tribulation- they are "caught up" or Christ receives them when they die & not before.

Everyone will die. The point is is how gruesome or not your death will be.

If we hold onto Christ till the end, death may very well have no sting, as Paul says. Or lesser sting. He was closer to perfect than most of us. I'm counting on at least less sting than any unbeliever.



Not every one will die

Jesus said

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matt 16:28


What did Jesus say?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. John 8:51 (KJV)
The 1st verse you quote speaks of physical death.(ie. the apostle John was to live till Jesus came again. (Jn 21:22) The 2nd  verse speaks of spiritual death. We will never see spiritual death! Which is great.

Consider 2Cor.4:7-5:5,
Cast Down but Unconquered
  
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. 8 We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed— 10 always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. 11 For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus’ sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So then death is working in us, but life in you.
13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I believed and therefore I spoke,

Offline farouk

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Re: The Church is not Raptured
« Reply #34 on: Mon Sep 21, 2009 - 11:35:06 »
I still believe that the coming of the Lord Jesus for His people (1 Thess. 4) amounts to the Rapture that you guys keep saying you don't believe in.