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Author Topic: The Coming Temple  (Read 5467 times)

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Stucky

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #35 on: Tue Dec 01, 2009 - 18:41:45 »
Well, yes.  But He didn't just leave them as ongoing realities.  I can't go see the burning bush today.  Flaming chariots don't visibly zip in and out of our atmosphere collecting living souls to heaven. (I can't see them anyway)

Besides, those are are mountaintop events.  Don't you know...what happens on the mountain, stays on the mountain.  ;-)
I see, so now you are limiting God to going outside the commonly known laws of physics at the time only if He continues it on a daily basis?

I assume the mountaintop remark was facetious right?
I haven't limited God anywhere here, Stuck-o.

I'm just observing that while God occasionally does something miraculous in the physical, most of his work tends to be in the spiritual.  He hasn't ever left things in a physical state that defies physics, that I'm aware of.

So a floating city would be...out of character...based on my own experiences and what I read about God's prior actions.

Jarrod

PS. I'm only half kidding about the mountaintop thing, but that's a different discussion altogether.

So, because He hasn't means He won't?  Have you never felt that everything about human history changes with the return of Jesus to rule the planet?  I believe we are going to experience things so.....can't find the word.....wild, I guess.....that our whole perception of life on Earth is going to change.  No Scripture here, just "feeling".  Don't start spouting off about "feelings" because after 40 years as a cop, "feelings" caught many a criminal.

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #35 on: Tue Dec 01, 2009 - 18:41:45 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #36 on: Wed Dec 02, 2009 - 11:20:01 »
So, because He hasn't means He won't?  Have you never felt that everything about human history changes with the return of Jesus to rule the planet?  I believe we are going to experience things so.....can't find the word.....wild, I guess.....that our whole perception of life on Earth is going to change.  No Scripture here, just "feeling".  Don't start spouting off about "feelings" because after 40 years as a cop, "feelings" caught many a criminal.
I think this is kind of where we are different.

Yes, I see a change, but apparently I see it differently than you.  I see a change of regime, a change in the laws of men, a change of heart(s) and intentions, in which people actually try to do right, instead of just please themselves.

But I don't see a change in the laws of physics, or that God will begin granting massive exceptions to them.  I don't think we'll suddenly be endowed with the power to teleport around, fly spaceships faster than the speed of light, or turn lead into gold (etc., etc.).

I do believe that during Jesus rule He is going to gradually extirpate all evil, all stupidity, all inefficiency and inexpediency, until He has, over some indeterminately long period of time, brought the earth to a state of perfection.  And as the book says, "the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

I view God as longsuffering - willing to work with men over extended periods of time to work the changes He desires - a father figure.  I don't see Him as a magician who waves a hand and instantly changes everything.

Jarrod

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #36 on: Wed Dec 02, 2009 - 11:20:01 »

Stucky

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #37 on: Wed Dec 02, 2009 - 18:15:10 »
So, because He hasn't means He won't?  Have you never felt that everything about human history changes with the return of Jesus to rule the planet?  I believe we are going to experience things so.....can't find the word.....wild, I guess.....that our whole perception of life on Earth is going to change.  No Scripture here, just "feeling".  Don't start spouting off about "feelings" because after 40 years as a cop, "feelings" caught many a criminal.
I think this is kind of where we are different.

Yes, I see a change, but apparently I see it differently than you.  I see a change of regime, a change in the laws of men, a change of heart(s) and intentions, in which people actually try to do right, instead of just please themselves.

But I don't see a change in the laws of physics, or that God will begin granting massive exceptions to them.  I don't think we'll suddenly be endowed with the power to teleport around, fly spaceships faster than the speed of light, or turn lead into gold (etc., etc.).

I do believe that during Jesus rule He is going to gradually extirpate all evil, all stupidity, all inefficiency and inexpediency, until He has, over some indeterminately long period of time, brought the earth to a state of perfection.  And as the book says, "the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

I view God as longsuffering - willing to work with men over extended periods of time to work the changes He desires - a father figure.  I don't see Him as a magician who waves a hand and instantly changes everything.

Jarrod

Jarrod,

I agree with everything you just said but one:

"But I don't see a change in the laws of physics".

I did not say anything about that.  As I said, people said we couldn't fly either.  Look at where we have come in our knowledge of "physics" since Adam.  We were gaining in knowledge as early as Babel, when God confused the languages.  That's why He did that.  We were gaining knowledge too fast for His plan and we were thinking ourselves as gods because of it.

Since you went into it:  'we'll suddenly be endowed with the power to teleport around, fly spaceships faster than the speed of light." 

I think that after the Millenium we will possibly be able to travel throughout the universe at the speed of thought.  No spaceships, we just think it and we go there.  I think that when Jesus said "In my house there are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you" He was talking about creating more wonders in our universe.  I've always thought that our "mansions" could be that we each get our own planet to rule.  Zounds, Jarrod, Stucky is nuts, eh?

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #38 on: Wed Dec 02, 2009 - 19:15:04 »
Jarrod,

I agree with everything you just said but one:

"But I don't see a change in the laws of physics".

I did not say anything about that.  As I said, people said we couldn't fly either.  Look at where we have come in our knowledge of "physics" since Adam.  We were gaining in knowledge as early as Babel, when God confused the languages.  That's why He did that.  We were gaining knowledge too fast for His plan and we were thinking ourselves as gods because of it.

Since you went into it:  'we'll suddenly be endowed with the power to teleport around, fly spaceships faster than the speed of light." 

I think that after the Millenium we will possibly be able to travel throughout the universe at the speed of thought.  No spaceships, we just think it and we go there.  I think that when Jesus said "In my house there are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you" He was talking about creating more wonders in our universe.  I've always thought that our "mansions" could be that we each get our own planet to rule.  Zounds, Jarrod, Stucky is nuts, eh?
After the Millennium?  I was talking about during the Millennium.

After the Millennium, the Bible says that Jesus will deliver up the kingdom to the Father (1Cor 15), and that there will be a resurrection, and a reckoning, and a new heaven and a new earth (Rev 21-22).  Having different physics in a new heaven and earth seems possible, even probable. 

But during the Millennium, I think we're stuck with reality the way it is now, but with better Management.

1Cr 15:24 KJV - Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 KJV - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26 KJV - The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #38 on: Wed Dec 02, 2009 - 19:15:04 »

Stucky

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #39 on: Wed Dec 02, 2009 - 19:22:43 »
Jarrod,

I agree with everything you just said but one:

"But I don't see a change in the laws of physics".

I did not say anything about that.  As I said, people said we couldn't fly either.  Look at where we have come in our knowledge of "physics" since Adam.  We were gaining in knowledge as early as Babel, when God confused the languages.  That's why He did that.  We were gaining knowledge too fast for His plan and we were thinking ourselves as gods because of it.

Since you went into it:  'we'll suddenly be endowed with the power to teleport around, fly spaceships faster than the speed of light." 

I think that after the Millenium we will possibly be able to travel throughout the universe at the speed of thought.  No spaceships, we just think it and we go there.  I think that when Jesus said "In my house there are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you" He was talking about creating more wonders in our universe.  I've always thought that our "mansions" could be that we each get our own planet to rule.  Zounds, Jarrod, Stucky is nuts, eh?
After the Millennium?  I was talking about during the Millennium.

After the Millennium, the Bible says that Jesus will deliver up the kingdom to the Father (1Cor 15), and that there will be a resurrection, and a reckoning, and a new heaven and a new earth (Rev 21-22).  Having different physics in a new heaven and earth seems possible, even probable. 

But during the Millennium, I think we're stuck with reality the way it is now, but with better Management.

1Cr 15:24 KJV - Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 KJV - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26 KJV - The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

These scriptues have nothing to do with our debate because we are debating about speculation, not the Word of God.

Can you not admit that we don't know everything there is to lnow about physics?  All we are talking about here is the possibilty that the New Jerusalem floats above the Earth.  Stick to the subject.  Just because we don't know the physics involved doesn't mean it can't happen.  Tell Pope Clement about orbiting space stations. He'd probably have you beheaded for heresy.

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #39 on: Wed Dec 02, 2009 - 19:22:43 »



Offline Azrael

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #40 on: Wed Dec 02, 2009 - 19:24:34 »
Quote
I don’t believe the city ever rests on the Earth’s surface, but rather orbits in the proximity of Earth, like a satellite or perhaps another moon.

Say huh? I have been around a lot of forums such as this but that's the first time I have heard of Jerusalem floating on the earth. Realistically it ain't happening not only that its, well, obsurd to say the least. I am not much on this Temple rebuild theory but I believe any such attempt to rebuild it will be met with force namely the Muslims since it is a Muslim Holy site to start with. Will it be rebuilt? I do not know this entails more study on my part....

Why is it absurd Az?  You don't think that God could, or would, do such a thing?

Thats a question only God can answer. Maybe absurd was a little harsh, far fetched?

Far-fetched is nicer, but only because we haven't seen something like this in our own lifetime except in science-fiction.  How do you think John felt about the things of the future that God showed him?  Tanks, helicopters, nuclear weapons, an orbiting Jerusalem?

Is it me? Or is anyone else having trouble wrapping their mines around an orbiting Jerusalem?

Stucky

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #41 on: Wed Dec 02, 2009 - 19:26:31 »
Quote
I don’t believe the city ever rests on the Earth’s surface, but rather orbits in the proximity of Earth, like a satellite or perhaps another moon.

Say huh? I have been around a lot of forums such as this but that's the first time I have heard of Jerusalem floating on the earth. Realistically it ain't happening not only that its, well, obsurd to say the least. I am not much on this Temple rebuild theory but I believe any such attempt to rebuild it will be met with force namely the Muslims since it is a Muslim Holy site to start with. Will it be rebuilt? I do not know this entails more study on my part....

Why is it absurd Az?  You don't think that God could, or would, do such a thing?

Thats a question only God can answer. Maybe absurd was a little harsh, far fetched?

Far-fetched is nicer, but only because we haven't seen something like this in our own lifetime except in science-fiction.  How do you think John felt about the things of the future that God showed him?  Tanks, helicopters, nuclear weapons, an orbiting Jerusalem?

Is it me? Or is anyone else having trouble wrapping their mines around an orbiting Jerusalem?

Go back 400 years and wrap your mind around an orbiting space station.

Offline Azrael

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #42 on: Wed Dec 02, 2009 - 19:31:10 »
Quote
I don’t believe the city ever rests on the Earth’s surface, but rather orbits in the proximity of Earth, like a satellite or perhaps another moon.

Say huh? I have been around a lot of forums such as this but that's the first time I have heard of Jerusalem floating on the earth. Realistically it ain't happening not only that its, well, obsurd to say the least. I am not much on this Temple rebuild theory but I believe any such attempt to rebuild it will be met with force namely the Muslims since it is a Muslim Holy site to start with. Will it be rebuilt? I do not know this entails more study on my part....

Why is it absurd Az?  You don't think that God could, or would, do such a thing?

Thats a question only God can answer. Maybe absurd was a little harsh, far fetched?

Far-fetched is nicer, but only because we haven't seen something like this in our own lifetime except in science-fiction.  How do you think John felt about the things of the future that God showed him?  Tanks, helicopters, nuclear weapons, an orbiting Jerusalem?

Is it me? Or is anyone else having trouble wrapping their mines around an orbiting Jerusalem?

Go back 400 years and wrap your mind around an orbiting space station.

They did not exist. This is starting to sound like something straight out of Nostradamus. Though I see what your saying.  ::frustrated::

Stucky

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #43 on: Wed Dec 02, 2009 - 19:52:39 »
Quote
I don’t believe the city ever rests on the Earth’s surface, but rather orbits in the proximity of Earth, like a satellite or perhaps another moon.

Say huh? I have been around a lot of forums such as this but that's the first time I have heard of Jerusalem floating on the earth. Realistically it ain't happening not only that its, well, obsurd to say the least. I am not much on this Temple rebuild theory but I believe any such attempt to rebuild it will be met with force namely the Muslims since it is a Muslim Holy site to start with. Will it be rebuilt? I do not know this entails more study on my part....

Why is it absurd Az?  You don't think that God could, or would, do such a thing?

Thats a question only God can answer. Maybe absurd was a little harsh, far fetched?

Far-fetched is nicer, but only because we haven't seen something like this in our own lifetime except in science-fiction.  How do you think John felt about the things of the future that God showed him?  Tanks, helicopters, nuclear weapons, an orbiting Jerusalem?

Is it me? Or is anyone else having trouble wrapping their mines around an orbiting Jerusalem?

Go back 400 years and wrap your mind around an orbiting space station.

They did not exist. This is starting to sound like something straight out of Nostradamus. Though I see what your saying.  ::frustrated::

No, speculation on the future inspired by things read in Scripture.  What I am saying is that just because we don't think an orbiting New Jerusalem is impossible doesn't mean we are correct.  There are things known by God that we can't possibly understand right now.  I mean, who invented physics anyway?  God.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #44 on: Thu Dec 03, 2009 - 12:55:57 »
Jarrod,

I agree with everything you just said but one:

"But I don't see a change in the laws of physics".

I did not say anything about that.  As I said, people said we couldn't fly either.  Look at where we have come in our knowledge of "physics" since Adam.  We were gaining in knowledge as early as Babel, when God confused the languages.  That's why He did that.  We were gaining knowledge too fast for His plan and we were thinking ourselves as gods because of it.

Since you went into it:  'we'll suddenly be endowed with the power to teleport around, fly spaceships faster than the speed of light." 

I think that after the Millenium we will possibly be able to travel throughout the universe at the speed of thought.  No spaceships, we just think it and we go there.  I think that when Jesus said "In my house there are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you" He was talking about creating more wonders in our universe.  I've always thought that our "mansions" could be that we each get our own planet to rule.  Zounds, Jarrod, Stucky is nuts, eh?
After the Millennium?  I was talking about during the Millennium.

After the Millennium, the Bible says that Jesus will deliver up the kingdom to the Father (1Cor 15), and that there will be a resurrection, and a reckoning, and a new heaven and a new earth (Rev 21-22).  Having different physics in a new heaven and earth seems possible, even probable. 

But during the Millennium, I think we're stuck with reality the way it is now, but with better Management.

1Cr 15:24 KJV - Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 KJV - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26 KJV - The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

These scriptues have nothing to do with our debate because we are debating about speculation, not the Word of God.

Can you not admit that we don't know everything there is to lnow about physics?  All we are talking about here is the possibilty that the New Jerusalem floats above the Earth.  Stick to the subject.  Just because we don't know the physics involved doesn't mean it can't happen.  Tell Pope Clement about orbiting space stations. He'd probably have you beheaded for heresy.
I can admit that, but  I don't see why it matters?  We know enough not to think there could be a floating city within the atmosphere of the planet without breaking the rules of gravitation and whatnot.

Maybe I'm confused here.  When does New Jerusalem arrive on the scene?  I was thinking that it was before (at the start of) the Millennium.

Stucky

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Re: The Coming Temple
« Reply #45 on: Thu Dec 03, 2009 - 13:05:24 »
Jarrod,

I agree with everything you just said but one:

"But I don't see a change in the laws of physics".

I did not say anything about that.  As I said, people said we couldn't fly either.  Look at where we have come in our knowledge of "physics" since Adam.  We were gaining in knowledge as early as Babel, when God confused the languages.  That's why He did that.  We were gaining knowledge too fast for His plan and we were thinking ourselves as gods because of it.

Since you went into it:  'we'll suddenly be endowed with the power to teleport around, fly spaceships faster than the speed of light." 

I think that after the Millenium we will possibly be able to travel throughout the universe at the speed of thought.  No spaceships, we just think it and we go there.  I think that when Jesus said "In my house there are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you" He was talking about creating more wonders in our universe.  I've always thought that our "mansions" could be that we each get our own planet to rule.  Zounds, Jarrod, Stucky is nuts, eh?
After the Millennium?  I was talking about during the Millennium.

After the Millennium, the Bible says that Jesus will deliver up the kingdom to the Father (1Cor 15), and that there will be a resurrection, and a reckoning, and a new heaven and a new earth (Rev 21-22).  Having different physics in a new heaven and earth seems possible, even probable. 

But during the Millennium, I think we're stuck with reality the way it is now, but with better Management.

1Cr 15:24 KJV - Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 KJV - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26 KJV - The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

These scriptues have nothing to do with our debate because we are debating about speculation, not the Word of God.

Can you not admit that we don't know everything there is to lnow about physics?  All we are talking about here is the possibilty that the New Jerusalem floats above the Earth.  Stick to the subject.  Just because we don't know the physics involved doesn't mean it can't happen.  Tell Pope Clement about orbiting space stations. He'd probably have you beheaded for heresy.
I can admit that, but  I don't see why it matters?  We know enough not to think there could be a floating city within the atmosphere of the planet without breaking the rules of gravitation and whatnot.

Maybe I'm confused here.  When does New Jerusalem arrive on the scene?  I was thinking that it was before (at the start of) the Millennium.

Jarrod,

It matters because you say an orbiting city of Jerusalem is beyond the realm of possibility.  People have always thought they knew enough not to think something.  The world is flat...man cannot fly...a power going through wires to operate things...the ability to see people on a little box and on and on.  Getting back to Pope Clement, go back in time and tell him we will go to the moon, then get out your lighter for your burning stake.

When Jerusalem appears is not the topic of this discussion between you and I right now.  We're debating the possibility of it being in orbit around, or with, the Earth.

Richard