Author Topic: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine  (Read 208 times)

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Offline BlessedCreator

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The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« on: Tue Apr 21, 2020 - 17:31:38 »
Let's examine scripture.

The seven year tribulation doctrine does NOT come from the following verse.

Revelation 7:14
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of
great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

That verse is speaking of the tribulation of all saints, of all ages that have been martyred for their faith.
But it is also, more specifically speaking of the time when the Lord returned to destroy Jerusalem.
Jesus told us of that time when the Romans came and destroyed Jerusalem, that "for then
shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

So we see that those verses are not speaking of any end time tribulation period.

The other verses that people refer to and try to make a point that there will be some end time 7 year tribulation
period is in Daniel 9:24-27
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and
to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting
righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore
and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem
unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built
again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall
Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of
the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in
the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the
overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the
consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The people that try to preach this false 7 year tribulation doctrine try to say that these verses
are speaking of the Antichrist. When it is actually speaking
of the messiah, of Jesus Christ. These 70 weeks were fulfilled during Christ's ministry. He fulfilled this
prophecy! Don't believe me? Just read commentaries on BibleHub on Daniel 9:27 and you will see.

Some try to say that the desolation of the temple from Matthew 24:15,
is what is referred to in the above scriptures of Daniel as
"the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease".
These are two different events. The desolation of the temple in Matthew is referring to
the desecration of the sanctuary by the mad attempt of Antiochus Epiphanes to
stop the "daily sacrifice," and to substitute an idolatrous worship in its place.

The scripture in Daniel is referring to when Christ, in the MIDST of the week, offered
his own body, that great sacrifice for the expiation of sin, to reconcile sinners to
God; by that most holy and acceptable victim, he completed and
abolished all the typical sacrifices of the law.

There is no 7 year tribulation period. It's a deception to leave you unprepared for what
is truly soon to come to pass.
« Last Edit: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 14:34:46 by BlessedCreator »

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The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« on: Tue Apr 21, 2020 - 17:31:38 »

Offline dpr

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #1 on: Wed Apr 22, 2020 - 08:13:52 »
Let's examine scripture.

The seven year tribulation doctrine does NOT come from the following verse.

Revelation 7:14
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of
great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

That verse is speaking of the tribulation of all saints, of all ages that have been martyred for their faith.
But it is also, more specifically speaking of the time when the Lord returned to destroy Jerusalem.

Of course that thinking is totally wrong and outside the actual Scriptures. The Rev.7 chapter is about those of both Israelites and Gentiles (Christ's Church) that are 'sealed' by God prior to the "day of the Lord", which is the LAST DAY of this present world. In other words, that last day has NOT happened yet. That is why the four angels there who hold the four winds are told to hold back until God's servants are sealed in their foreheads. These are all sealed in prep for the time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world, the event at the end Jesus warned of in His Olivet discourse. This is why we are to put 2 + 2 together in Rev.7 which starts off about holding back the four winds until God's servants are 'sealed' in the forehead, and then talks about the great multitude having come out of great tribulation. I agree it is NOT about a rapture, it is about the 'sealing' with God's seal of Christ's servants in order to make a stand at the very end of this world during the great tribulation.

And that idea that Jesus returned to destroy Jerusalem is a false doctrine from Full Preterism, a lying doctrine from men.

Quote
Jesus told us of that time when the Romans came and destroyed Jerusalem, that "for then
shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

So we see that those verses are not speaking of any end time tribulation period.

Jesus' warning about the time of "great tribulation" in His Olivet discourse is a Sign He gave His servants for the very end, NOT back in 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple.

It is not strange that you go directly against the written Scripture, because Christ's servants are not blind to Satan's devices.

Offline lecoop

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #2 on: Wed Apr 22, 2020 - 12:12:27 »
How strange to say this. John gives us five different looks at the last half of the 70th week, as a 3.5 year period of time: given as 1260 days, as 42 months, and as time, times and half of time.

Fifth grade math question: if 1/2 of a given period of time is 42 months, then how long is the entire period of time?
If 1/2 of a given period of time is 1260 days, then how long is the entire period of time?
If 1/2 of a given period of time is 3 1/2 years, then how long is the entire period of time?

Try this: take an apple and divide it in half.
Eat half of it today: this would represent Jesus fulfilling the first 3.5 years of 7.
Put the second half of the apple in the refer: this will represent the gap Daniel wrote in after the Death of Christ and before the 70th week.

Then, tomorrow get out the half an apple and cut it in half. This will represent the abomination that divides the week.

Now, example what you have: TWO QUARTERS.

Sorry, but Revelation proves conclusively that there must be an abomination in our future that will divide an entire 7 year period.

Offline lecoop

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #3 on: Wed Apr 22, 2020 - 12:23:19 »
Revelation 7:14
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of
great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

That verse is speaking of the tribulation of all saints, of all ages that have been martyred for their faith.
But it is also, more specifically speaking of the time when the Lord returned to destroy Jerusalem.
Jesus told us of that time when the Romans came and destroyed Jerusalem, that "for then
shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Just WHO is this great crowd, too large to number? Where did they come from?

Paul's rapture, for those of you that don't know, will come a moment before the earthquake of the 6th seal Start of the Day of the Lord. Paul wrote just three verses after his classical rapture verse that the Day of the Lord will come as a thief. OF COURSE it will, because JESUS will come as a thief FOR His bride, and the rapture will trigger the Day of the Lord. Paul shows us the rapture and the DAY will be back to back events with NO TIME between. So John then SAW the raptured church in the next chapter he wrote: Rev. 7.

Stop and think: perhaps 40 to 50 generations of believers in one place at one time: they will be billions in number. Note, it would take over 30 years for John to count to one billion! The raptured church will be by far the largest group of people mentioned in the book of Revelation. Now, WHERE did they come from? The Greek gives us the idea that they came ONE BY ONE. HOW could this group come "one by one?" They came OUT OF THE WORLD one by one as each one was born again!

Note carefully, John has not yet even started the 70th week, MUCH LESS arrived at the midpoint where Jesus said the days of great tribulation (GT) would start.  John is NOT telling us these came one by one out of the Beast's days of GT. Those days are still future in John's book. Notice that the beheaded only begin showing up in heaven in Rev. 15! All John is telling us is that God considers the entire church age as great tribulation.

Why did John break from his real time narrative in the seals between the 6th and 7th? What is chapter 7 all about? Have you ever watched a play where the close the curtains between acts? What happens behind the curtain at that time? They are REARRANGING the set! They are preparing the set for the next act. This, my friend, is exactly what John is doing in Rev. 7. In the mind of God, TWO THINGS must be accomplished before the 7th seal officially opens the 70th week of Daniel: the 144,000 MUST be seals for their protection, and the church MUST be seen safely in heaven. Then, and only then can the HURT begin on planet earth.

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #3 on: Wed Apr 22, 2020 - 12:23:19 »
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Offline BlessedCreator

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #4 on: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 17:11:15 »
Daniel 9:(27) And he shall confirm.—The subject of the sentence is ambiguous. Theod. makes it to be “one week.” LXX. “the covenant;” others take it to be the Antichristian prince spoken of in the last verse, an opinion which derives some support from Daniel 7:25. According to this interpretation, the covenant refers to the agreement which the prince makes with the large number of persons who become apostates. But (1) the word “covenant” does not apply to any such agreement, but rather to a covenant with God, and (2) in Daniel 9:26 it is the people of the prince, and not the prince, which is the subject of the sentence. It is therefore more appropriate to take Messiah as the subject. During the last closing week of the long period mentioned, Messiah, though cut off, shall confirm God’s covenant (comp. Daniel 11:22; Daniel 11:28; Daniel 11:30; Daniel 11:32) with many, that is, with those who receive Him.
In the midst of the week.—Or, during half the week (the latter half of the week, according to the LXX.), he will cause to cease all the Mosaic sacrifices (possibly those mentioned in Daniel 8:11), whether bloody or unbloody. The verb “cause to cease” is used here as in Jeremiah 36:29.

And for the overspreading . . .—The Greek versions agree in translating this as follows, καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδελυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων, which St. Jerome follows, “et erit in templo abominatio desolationis. However, it is not possible to obtain any such meaning from our present Hebrew text without omitting the last letter and altering the last vowel of the word translated “abominations.” As the text stands it can be literally translated only as follows, “and upon the wing of abominations is a desolator.” The desolator, of course, is the person who causes the desolations mentioned in Daniel 9:26. But what is meant by the “wing of abominations?” The language is without parallel in the Old Testament, unless such passages as Psalm 18:10; Psalm 104:3 are adduced, where, however, the plural “wings,” and not the singular, is used. If the number is disregarded, the words before us are explained to mean that “the abomination” or idolatry is the power by which the desolator accomplishes his purposes. He comes riding on the wings of abominations, using them for his ministers as God does the winds or the cherubim. As it appears decisive against this interpretation that Daniel has written “wing,” and not “wings,” it is better to explain the words as referring to the “sanctuary” spoken of in the last verse. The sense is in that case, “and upon the wing—i.e., the pinnacle of the abominations (comp. the use of πτερύγιον, Matthew 4:5) is a desolator. The Temple is thus called on account of the extent to which it had been desecrated by Israel.

Until the consummation.—These words refer back to Daniel 9:26, and mean that these abominations will continue till the desolation which God has decreed shall be poured upon that which is desolated. Though the word “desolate” is active in Daniel 8:13; Daniel 12:11, it appears in this passage to be used in a passive sense, as also in Daniel 9:18. That which is foretold by Daniel is the complete and final destruction of the same city and temple which evoked the prophet’s prayer. There is no prophecy that the desolator himself is destined to destruction. Of his doom nothing is here stated. The “prince” appears merely as the instrument pre-ordained by God, by whose people both city and sanctuary are to be destroyed. -Ellicott commentary on Daniel 9:27

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #4 on: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 17:11:15 »



Offline robycop3

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #5 on: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 17:55:20 »
  Gents, Jesus did NOT return to destroy Jerusalem. it was destroyed by the ROMANS because of a Jewish rebellion against them. This destruction was part of the "days of vengeance" Jesus pronounced against that generation of Jews.

  And the great trib will be WORLDWIDE, as rev. 3:10 says. And, while the destruction of J was a catastrophe, it certainly wasn't history's greatest one, nor was it worldwide.

Offline BlessedCreator

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #6 on: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 20:24:57 »
There is no end time "great tribulation" if you're talking about Matthew 24:21. That verse is talking about the Roman siege on Jerusalem in 70AD. Read commentaries on BibleHub from the great theologians of centuries past such as Ellicott, Barnes or Meyers and they will explain it to you more thoroughly.
« Last Edit: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 20:27:07 by BlessedCreator »

Offline dpr

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #7 on: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 22:14:38 »
Christ's Olivet discourse of Matthew 24; Mark 13, and Luke 21 are all linked to the last days prophecies given in Revelation, which is for Christ's Church.

The "days of vengeance" comes from the last phrase in Isaiah 61:2 and is about the event of Christ's 2nd coming. Luke 4 proves this, because per Luke 4 at the start of Christ's Ministry, He went into the temple, opened up Isaiah 61, and quoted verse 1 and most of verse 2 except... the part about the "day of vengeance". He then closed the Book and said, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." (Luke 4:21)


The portion below in green was about our Lord Jesus' 1st coming. The portion in red is about His future 2nd coming:

Isa 61:1-2
61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
KJV


Offline lea

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #8 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 15:03:04 »
The last days of the Jewish "dispensation" ended in AD70.

Futurists,  learn what "the end times" in Bible prophecy means.   ::cool::

Offline robycop3

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #9 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 17:08:53 »
The last days of the Jewish "dispensation" ended in AD70.

Futurists,  learn what "the end times" in Bible prophecy means.   ::cool::

  It's not what PRETS believe!

Offline lea

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #10 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 19:08:38 »
  It's not what PRETS believe!

No, Preterists believe that.  Zionists maybe don't.

Offline robycop3

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Re: The false "7 year tribulation" doctrine
« Reply #11 on: Tue Apr 28, 2020 - 06:12:17 »
No, Preterists believe that.  Zionists maybe don't.

 Prets believe tall tales, falsely re-written history, conjecture, & guesswork, while WE believe Scripture, & REAL history.