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Author Topic: The Identity of the Antichrist, the Two Beasts of Revelation, and the Whore  (Read 2894 times)

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Offline cgaviria

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A beast in prophecy symbolizes a kingdom, hence why this beast in the book of Daniel was said to symbolize a kingdom,

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"He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth... (Daniel 7:23 [NIV])
As such, the first beast having multiple heads of Revelation symbolizes multiple kingdoms, hence why it rises out of the sea

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And I stood upon the sand of the sea. And I saw from out of the sea a wild beast ascending, having ten horns and seven heads... (Revelation of John 13:1 [ABP])
Since the sea symbolizes many kinds of peoples and languages,

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And he says to me, The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes, and nations, and languages. (Revelation of John 17:15 [ABP])
As so, each head of this first beast symbolizes a series of kingdoms that comes forth chronologically one after the other, with the sixth head as the current ruling power at the time the vision was given,

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And there are seven kings -- the five fallen, the one is, the other not yet is come... (Revelation of John 17:10 [ABP])
With one kingdom expected to come, and five kingdoms already fallen. As such, the current ruling kingdom at the time the vision was given were the Romans. And after these seven heads, comes an eighth head, and that is the kingdom that will be in ruling power at the coming of Jesus Christ,

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And the beast which was, and is not, even he is eighth, and he is from out of the seven, and he goes unto destruction. (Revelation of John 17:11 [ABP])
As such, just as we observe the first beast rising from many peoples, and just as each head encompassing a large span of time throughout a series of kingdoms, we can also observe a correlation between these other descriptions of the first beast,

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And the beast which I saw was likened to a leopard, and his feet as a bear, and his mouth as a mouth of a lion... (Revelation of John 13:2 [ABP])
To the four beasts of a Daniel, which were four kingdoms, in which case beast one of Daniel was likened to a lion, which relates to the mouth of a lion of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Babylonians,

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And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another. The first was like a lion and had eagles’ wings. Then as I looked its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man, and the mind of a man was given to it. (Daniel 7:3-4 [ESV])
And beast two of Daniel was likened to a bear, which relates to the feet of a bear of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Medo-Persians,

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And behold, another beast, a second one, like a bear. It was raised up on one side. It had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth; and it was told, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’ (Daniel 7:5 [ESV])
And beast three of Daniel was likened to a leopard, which relates to the appearance of a leopard of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Greeks,

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After this I looked, and behold, another, like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back. And the beast had four heads, and dominion was given to it. (Daniel 7:6 [ESV])
And beast four of Daniel had ten horns, which relates to the ten horns of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Romans,

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After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, terrifying and dreadful and exceedingly strong. It had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. (Daniel 7:7 [ESV])
As such, because of this correlation, we can further identify the heads that precede the Romans as the sixth head, which were the Greeks as the fifth head, and before them were the Medo-Persians as the fourth head, and before them were the Babylonians as the third head. And lastly, we can also identify the two remaining heads, which were the Assyrians as the second head, and ultimately, we arrive at the first kingdom to ever rule over the people of God, which were the Egyptians as the first head, who enslaved the Israelites for around 400 years,

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Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there. (Genesis 15:13 [NIV])
And so, the first beast symbolizes all kingdoms ruling over and coming against the people of God from the time of the Egyptians to the time of the second coming of Jesus Christ. This is also why anyone who is not written in the book of life ends up worshiping the first beast, both in the past, present, and future, because throughout time the first beast has manifested itself through various kingdoms, which were all powerful and influential kingdoms for their time,

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and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. (Revelation 13:8 [ESV])
And just as the dragon gives his authority to the first beast,

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...And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. (Revelation 13:2 [ESV])
So has Satan, who is symbolized by the dragon, throughout time, has granted his authority to each kingdom symbolized by the heads of first beast,

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in which the god of this eon blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so as to not shine forth to them the illumination of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is image of the unseen of God. (2 Corinthians 4:4 [ABP])

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The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. (Luke 4:5-6 [NIV])
And whoever worships these kingdoms by serving them, also worships Satan,

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And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?” (Revelation 13:4 [ESV])
And so, the Romans, as the sixth head of the first beast having ten horns, which is also beast four of Daniel having ten horns, broke up into ten kingdoms, which were the Alemanni, the Franks, the Burgundians, the Suevi, the Anglo-Saxons, the Visigoths, the Lombards, the Vandals, the Ostrogoths, and the Heruli. And during these horns, came forth an eleventh little horn,

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I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots... (Daniel 7:8 [AKJV])
In which case, this little horn symbolizes the papacy, hence why the little horn is described as having the eyes of a man,

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...And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man... (Daniel 7:8 [NHEB])
In which case, the papacy destroyed the Vandals, the Ostrogoths, and the Heruli, which are the three horns uprooted by the eleventh little horn. This little horn not only symbolizes the papacy, but is also the antichrist that the elect were expecting to come,

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Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. (1 John 2:18 [NIV])

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Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship... (2 Thessalonians 2:3 [NASB])

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“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. (Daniel 11:36 [ESV])
And the apostasy that came brought forth the catholic church, which in turn brought forth the papacy, who through various popes has made arrogant boasts exalting himself to be God on earth,

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...and a mouth speaking arrogant things. (Daniel 7:8 [NHEB])
Which correlates with the first beast of Revelation also speaking haughty words,

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And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words...  (Revelation 13:5 [ESV])
Even altering Jewish laws and times by establishing new times, such as Christmas, Easter, Sunday as the new Sabbath,

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He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws... (Daniel 7:25 [NIV])
And has even spoken blasphemies against God and those who dwell in heaven through many false teachings,

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And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words. It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. (Revelation 13:5-6 [ESV])
This little horn is also said to persecute the holy people for a time, times, and half a time,

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...The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.
(Daniel 7:25 [NIV])
And since Nebuchadnezzar lost his sanity for seven times, which was seven years, therefore a time is derived to be one year,

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Let his mind be changed from that of a man and let him be given the mind of an animal, till seven times pass by for him. (Daniel 4:16 [NIV])
As such, a times is derived to be two times, therefore, one time plus two times plus a half time is three and a half years, which corresponds to forty two months that the first beast is said to have authority to wage war against the holy people,

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And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months.  (Revelation 13:5 [ESV])
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It was given power to wage war against God's holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
 (Revelation 13:7 [ESV])
And from a known prophecy in Daniel, one prophetic day is derived to be one literal year, which was the seventy weeks prophecy of Daniel which predicted the coming of Jesus Christ to be four hundred and ninety years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity,

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Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy. (Daniel 9:24 [ASV])
Therefore, forty two months, which is also three and a half years, is derived to be one thousand two hundred and sixty literal years. As such, this time of papal authority was fulfilled beginning around 538 AD when the pope was officially granted power by the Justinian Code, to around 1798 AD when the pope was taken into captivity by the French, and so, throughout this appointed time, inquisitions and massacres were perpetrated by the rule of the papacy, which indeed martyred the holy people of God. And when the pope was taken into captivity is when the sixth head received its fatal wound,

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One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound... (Revelation 13:3 [NIV])
After the sixth head, also came the Ottomans as the seventh head, which came for a little time,

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...the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. (Revelation 17:10 [NIV])
And around the time that the papacy was abolished, came forth the second beast of Revelation,

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Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth...(Revelation 13:11 [NIV])
As such, just as the seas symbolize many peoples, the earth symbolizes a sparse population, and so the United States ascended as a new kingdom in what was said to be a new world, thus fulfilling the prophecy of the second beast. And in likewise manner that the second beast exercises authority in relation to the first beast,

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It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. (Revelation 13:12 [NIV])
So has the United States come forth as a kingdom related to the kingdoms symbolized by the first beast, which were the European colonies that gave rise to the Americans. In which case, the United States ascended in the form of government that the sixth head first was, which was the democratic government that the Romans first were, which is a rulership of the majority, determining good or evil by the vote of the majority. In which case, this democratic form of government is also what the eighth and final head will be,

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The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. (Revelation 17:11 [NIV])

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The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come. (Romans 17:8 [NIV])
Since at the time the vision was given, the sixth head was not a republic, but a kingdom ruled by Roman emperors, hence "the beast that once was, and now is not". This also relates to why the ten horns that the Romans broke up into had crowns,

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...It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
(Revelation 13:1 [NIV])
As opposed to the ten final horns of the first beast that do not have crowns, when the time that the eighth head comes to be, because a horn with a crown symbolizes a monarchy whereas a horn without a crown symbolizes a republic. As such, the government of the United States was formed in the image of the Roman government, which is the form of government that it tells the inhabitants of the earth to form as an image of the beast,

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...deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. (Revelation 13:14 [ESV])
Which are democratic forms of government throughout the world that image the first beast and itself, and so, we see this already fulfilled with the promotion of independent democracies by the United States throughout the entire world, even fighting wars to create and promote new democracies and quash opposition, thus also fulfilling this prophecy,

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...telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. (Revelation 13:14-15 [ESV])
In which case, most of the kingdoms of the world have already become republics that image the first beast. And not only does the second beast influence the entire world, but it also exercises great power, to even cause fire to rain down from heaven,

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And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. (Revelation 13:13 [NIV])
Which relates to the power the United States exercises by its own technology, to even bomb and destroy entire cities using its military and air force, displaying incredible power that no kingdom has ever had before. Such signs, among other technological wonders in various industries, such as communications, transportation, and medicine, have caused the entire world to be in awe and deceived by its signs,

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and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth...
(Revelation 13:14 [ESV])
Which has caused the world to want to mimic the Americans as a result of the deception. The second beast has not just promoted its form of government to the world, but also its way of life, which includes entertainment with movies & music, financial system of debt, its sexual lewdness, and decadence. The two horns of the second beast symbolize congress and the presidency as the two ruling powers of the United States,

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...It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. (Revelation 13:11 [NIV])
In which case, as a lamb, the United States is perceived to be godly, yet as a dragon it spreads wickedness around the world. During this time, the eighth and final head of the first beast is already forming as the European Union, in which case many countries have already given their authority to this union, yet its final form will be a republic that will be given authority by ten kingdoms that have not yet received authority,

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"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. (Revelation 17:12-13 [NIV])
And their sole purpose when they receive authority will be to give their authority to the final formation of the European republic, in which case, this final republic will wage war against Jesus Christ when he returns,

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They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." (Revelation 17:14 [NIV])
And as the formation of the eighth head comes to be, the fatal wound of the sixth was healed,

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One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed.The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. (Revelation 13:3 [NIV])
Which was the reinstatement of the papacy around 1929 by Benito Mussolini, which brought forth the whore of Babylon, which sits upon the first beast that has the seven heads and ten horns,

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And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. (Revelation 17:3 [ESV])
And is involved with the kings and governments of the world, and has made the inhabitants of the entire world drunk with the wine of her false teachings,

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with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.”
(Revelation 17:2 [ESV])
And is also a mother of whores,

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The name written on her forehead was a mystery: babylon the great the mother of prostitutes and of the abominations of the earth. (Revelation 17:5 [NIV])
Because as a false church symbolized by a whore, she has given birth to more whores, which are all the false churches and false denominations that have come forth from the catholic church, borrowing many of her false teachings. In which case, the papacy is enthroned at the Vatican, which sits in the city that has seven hills, which is Rome,

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"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings...
(Revelation 17:9 [NIV])
As such, the Vatican sits upon the first beast because she is a culmination of all the heads of the first beast, which is why the teachings and symbols of the catholic church all relate to teachings and symbols going back to the Babylonians and the Egyptians. The whore of Babylon is also said to be drunk with the blood of the saints,

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I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God's holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. (Revelation 17:6 [NIV])
Because the papacy persecuted the people of God as the first beast having authority for one thousand two hundred and sixty years before it became drunk with their blood when it became the whore of Babylon during the formation of the eighth and final head of the first beast. As such, the Vatican will be destroyed by the ten kingdoms that will give their authority to the final European republic,

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And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, (Revelation 17:16 [ESV])
And before they burn the Vatican with fire, they will first make her naked by exposing her and will then will devour her flesh by ransacking her. This is one of the final signs before the second coming of Jesus Christ.

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Offline SwordMaster

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CG...again...you have many things wrong here...and I don't have the time to address them all.

However, the first one you make is in taking what one book has designated as a kingdom, and then applying it to the rest of Scripture. The beast in Revelation does not represent a kingdom, it is the name that John uses for the anti-christ...that should be clear to anyone.

Down through to the end of the OP...mistake after mistake, culminating with your comments on the woman riding the beast, it will be the anti-christ who will turn on her (Rome) and cause the nations to come up against her...and then the second half of the second coming of Christ will come.

On that last part I might be a little too detailed, but that's just me. The truth is often only seen in the details, where otherwise false ideologies abound...which brings us to your ridiculous thoughts on the United States as identifying it as the anti-christ. So...are you a muslim?

Other than that, which you never specifically identified him (which is a man, NOT a nation), exactly who are you supposed to be identifying? The OP title says, "The identity of the anti-christ..." and then you never come right out and say who are you assuming the anti-christ will be.


« Last Edit: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 22:02:30 by SwordMaster »

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Offline Amo

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CG...again...you have many things wrong here...and I don't have the time to address them all.

However, the first one you make is in taking what one book has designated as a kingdom, and then applying it to the rest of Scripture. The beast in Revelation does not represent a kingdom, it is the name that John uses for the anti-christ...that should be clear to anyone.

So, your advice is not to use scripture itself in defining symbols it has already explained, but just go with a personal interpretation. Doesn't sound like very good advice to me. The books of Daniel and Revelation are both prophetic visions given by God which outline history right up to the end of this world. Chapter 13 of Revelation addressing two new beasts of biblical prophecy attaches itself to the beasts of the book of Daniel at the very beginning of the chapter.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

This first beast of Revelation 13 has parts from all four beasts of Daniel chapter seven given in reverse order of that revealed to Daniel as the unfolding history of kingdoms or nations. The vision starts by going backward in history addressing these very same beasts and nations, and unquestionably connecting them to the beasts being addressed in Revelation 13. Yet here you are denying this most obvious connection, in favor of a personal interpretation and application according to your own understanding. Why? Please use the scriptures to support your argument that the beast in question means the anti-christ and not that which scriptures has already defined as kingdoms or nations elsewhere. Instead of just stating your opinion that this should be obvious to anyone, make it obvious from scripture please. There is no room for private interpretation of biblical prophecy, scripture should explain itself as far as possible.

2Pet i:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Offline the_sign

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When the subject of "The Antichrist" is addressed in the New Testament Epistles, the original basis is found in several of the prophecies in the Book of Daniel.

Not only the great statue of the various empires (kingdoms), but those with greater specificity such as Daniel 8:23-24, 9:26, 11:3-4, 11:21-45, and 12:11 & 12.

I have less qualms about reporting after the destruction of the antichrist which occurred on Ascension Sunday, May 8, 2016 A.D. than I did prior to and/or during the actual reign (September 12, 2012 A.D. to the 1,335th day of Daniel 12:12, Ascension Sunday, May 8, 2016 A.D.)

But here is one such effort :

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/21691-end-of-days/

We are in a transferred time period according to that which has been foretold in Luke 21:26, that the virtues (powers) of Heaven shall be moved :

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-three-days-of-darkness-november-24-26-2016-a-d/

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Offline SwordMaster

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CG...again...you have many things wrong here...and I don't have the time to address them all.

However, the first one you make is in taking what one book has designated as a kingdom, and then applying it to the rest of Scripture. The beast in Revelation does not represent a kingdom, it is the name that John uses for the anti-christ...that should be clear to anyone.

So, your advice is not to use scripture itself in defining symbols it has already explained, but just go with a personal interpretation.

Amo, as usual, you have some reading comprehension problems, because I didn't say anything of the sort.

Read it again...try to understand what I stated this time.


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Offline SwordMaster

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When the subject of "The Antichrist" is addressed in the New Testament Epistles, the original basis is found in several of the prophecies in the Book of Daniel.

Not only the great statue of the various empires (kingdoms), but those with greater specificity such as Daniel 8:23-24, 9:26, 11:3-4, 11:21-45, and 12:11 & 12.

I have less qualms about reporting after the destruction of the antichrist which occurred on Ascension Sunday, May 8, 2016 A.D. than I did prior to and/or during the actual reign (September 12, 2012 A.D. to the 1,335th day of Daniel 12:12, Ascension Sunday, May 8, 2016 A.D.)

But here is one such effort :

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/21691-end-of-days/

We are in a transferred time period according to that which has been foretold in Luke 21:26, that the virtues (powers) of Heaven shall be moved :

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-three-days-of-darkness-november-24-26-2016-a-d/



Sign...I don't know where you are getting all of this, but it is not only not "orthodox" but not according to normal math...are you using that 'common core' math stuff???


Offline Amo

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CG...again...you have many things wrong here...and I don't have the time to address them all.

However, the first one you make is in taking what one book has designated as a kingdom, and then applying it to the rest of Scripture. The beast in Revelation does not represent a kingdom, it is the name that John uses for the anti-christ...that should be clear to anyone.

So, your advice is not to use scripture itself in defining symbols it has already explained, but just go with a personal interpretation.

Amo, as usual, you have some reading comprehension problems, because I didn't say anything of the sort.

Read it again...try to understand what I stated this time.

You said the beast of Revelation does not represent a kingdom but rather the anti-christ, that is what I addressed.

Offline n2thelight

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CG...again...you have many things wrong here...and I don't have the time to address them all.

However, the first one you make is in taking what one book has designated as a kingdom, and then applying it to the rest of Scripture. The beast in Revelation does not represent a kingdom, it is the name that John uses for the anti-christ...that should be clear to anyone.

Down through to the end of the OP...mistake after mistake, culminating with your comments on the woman riding the beast, it will be the anti-christ who will turn on her (Rome) and cause the nations to come up against her...and then the second half of the second coming of Christ will come.

On that last part I might be a little too detailed, but that's just me. The truth is often only seen in the details, where otherwise false ideologies abound...which brings us to your ridiculous thoughts on the United States as identifying it as the anti-christ. So...are you a muslim?

Other than that, which you never specifically identified him (which is a man, NOT a nation), exactly who are you supposed to be identifying? The OP title says, "The identity of the anti-christ..." and then you never come right out and say who are you assuming the anti-christ will be.

The first beast is a one world system,ie government,the 2nd beast is satan himself

Offline Star of David

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Antichrist, the Two Beasts of Revelation, and the Whore are all departures from reality.

You'll see.

Offline SwordMaster

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CG...again...you have many things wrong here...and I don't have the time to address them all.

However, the first one you make is in taking what one book has designated as a kingdom, and then applying it to the rest of Scripture. The beast in Revelation does not represent a kingdom, it is the name that John uses for the anti-christ...that should be clear to anyone.

So, your advice is not to use scripture itself in defining symbols it has already explained, but just go with a personal interpretation.

Amo, as usual, you have some reading comprehension problems, because I didn't say anything of the sort.

Read it again...try to understand what I stated this time.

You said the beast of Revelation does not represent a kingdom but rather the anti-christ, that is what I addressed.

OK...I am addressing the Beast...which is the anti-christ; which beast of Revelation are you referring to? The multiple headed one? Or the leopard menagerie beast...or what?

I may have gotten confused here...


« Last Edit: Mon Oct 17, 2016 - 01:00:13 by SwordMaster »

Offline Glorious

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Other than being too lengthy, OP is a chaotic scramble and confusion of scriptures, having several misinterpretations of symbols in such a way that can never reveal who/what the two beasts are.

Any kingdom represented by a beast, whether in Daniel 7 or the book of Revelation, is never a geographical territory with a political system of government.

A kingdom represented by a beast is always a combination of the name, glory, power in the fulness of whomsoever is worshipped.

That is how come the kingdom of God (Holy Ghost) on earth is righteousness (from faith that is in the name), peace (that begins and is from glory) and joy (that is from power/strength) of the Holy Ghost.

Scripture does not describe that kingdom of the Holy Ghost as the Roman empire or Persia or United Kingdom or whatever else historicall kingdom of man. Kingdoms of God are within the believing, trusting, obedient and loving people of God.

In same way,  the Daniel 7 kingdoms, and kingdoms of Satan shown to Jesus while being tempted, are not geographical kingdoms of men. Those kingdoms are sets of unrighteousness, delightful but troublesome evil things and knowledge/fear of the devil in the wicked one.  Kingdoms of the devil are within unbelieving, non trusting, disobedient and hateful people who are not of God.

Let's just say this: if the premises are faulty, the entire OP is completely ridden with faults.

There is the heavenly pattern of all things. By  that pattern are all things understood. It comes by revelation.


Offline cgaviria

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Other than being too lengthy, OP is a chaotic scramble and confusion of scriptures, having several misinterpretations of symbols in such a way that can never reveal who/what the two beasts are.

Any kingdom represented by a beast, whether in Daniel 7 or the book of Revelation, is never a geographical territory with a political system of government.

A kingdom represented by a beast is always a combination of the name, glory, power in the fulness of whomsoever is worshipped.

That is how come the kingdom of God (Holy Ghost) on earth is righteousness (from faith that is in the name), peace (that begins and is from glory) and joy (that is from power/strength) of the Holy Ghost.

Scripture does not describe that kingdom of the Holy Ghost as the Roman empire or Persia or United Kingdom or whatever else historicall kingdom of man. Kingdoms of God are within the believing, trusting, obedient and loving people of God.

In same way,  the Daniel 7 kingdoms, and kingdoms of Satan shown to Jesus while being tempted, are not geographical kingdoms of men. Those kingdoms are sets of unrighteousness, delightful but troublesome evil things and knowledge/fear of the devil in the wicked one.  Kingdoms of the devil are within unbelieving, non trusting, disobedient and hateful people who are not of God.

Let's just say this: if the premises are faulty, the entire OP is completely ridden with faults.

There is the heavenly pattern of all things. By  that pattern are all things understood. It comes by revelation.

What is all this nonsense? Its child's talk, spoken with lack of understanding.

Offline Glorious

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cgaviria wrote :
Quote
What is all this nonsense? Its child's talk, spoken with lack of understanding.

I only wrote/explained what the Bible says a  kingdom of God is : righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost (God). Any person having a combination of these three things working effectively in himself or herself partakes in the kingdom of God.

Conversely,  the spiritual kingdom of the devil is unrighteousness,  lack of peace and lack of joy in the devil. Any person having a combination of these three things working effectively in himself or herself partakes in the kingdom of Satan.

Spiritual kingdoms, symbolized by the beasts, are not and will never be empires and kingdoms of men as you claim. That is just your wild imagination and myth.

You should understand that mysteries of the kingdom are not meant to be understood by everyone. That is how come you hear about the kingdom but cannot understand.

So, don't waste time trying to understand what you are not given to understand, and which is definitely beyond your scope. Instead, pray that understanding is given to you by the Spirit.

At least, you should learn from scriptures that not even one parable of the kingdom of heaven points to, or is understood to mean/describe, a geographical/political kingdom on earth.

It isn't surprising that the simplicity of my explanation of a scripture seems childish to you. Well, simple things of God always seem childish, frustrating and annoying to unteachable and unbelieving folks who are yet in the way.

cgaviria, the opening post of this thread shows that you are far from having the spirit of understanding and know nothing about the mysteries of a spiritual kingdom.

That long epistle of yours is a very useless and convoluted piece that has everything to do with your wild, wild imagination about the two beasts, heads and horns of a beast and the woman called  MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
« Last Edit: Wed Oct 19, 2016 - 00:55:46 by Glorious »

Offline cgaviria

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cgaviria wrote :
Quote
What is all this nonsense? Its child's talk, spoken with lack of understanding.

I only wrote/explained what the Bible says a  kingdom of God is : righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost (God). Any person having a combination of these three things working effectively in himself or herself partakes in the kingdom of God.

Conversely,  the spiritual kingdom of the devil is unrighteousness,  lack of peace and lack of joy in the devil. Any person having a combination of these three things working effectively in himself or herself partakes in the kingdom of Satan.

Spiritual kingdoms, symbolized by the beasts, are not and will never be empires and kingdoms of men as you claim. That is just your wild imagination and myth.

You should understand that mysteries of the kingdom are not meant to be understood by everyone. That is how come you hear about the kingdom but cannot understand.

So, don't waste time trying to understand what you are not given to understand, and which is definitely beyond your scope. Instead, pray that understanding is given to you by the Spirit.

At least, you should learn from scriptures that not even one parable of the kingdom of heaven points to, or is understood to mean/describe, a geographical/political kingdom on earth.

It isn't surprising that the simplicity of my explanation of a scripture seems childish to you. Well, simple things of God always seem childish, frustrating and annoying to unteachable and unbelieving folks who are yet in the way.

cgaviria, the opening post of this thread shows that you are far from having the spirit of understanding and know nothing about the mysteries of a spiritual kingdom.

That long epistle of yours is a very useless and convoluted piece that has everything to do with your wild, wild imagination about the two beasts, heads and horns of a beast and the woman called  MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Oh myth really?

Quote
"He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth... (Daniel 7:23 [NIV])

It seems that it is you, who on the contrary, has no understanding of the spiritual mysteries of the kingdom of God. No one that has the wisdom given by God will say that these beasts do not symbolize kingdoms, only a fool would say that,

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Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand. (Daniel 12:10)

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A beast in prophecy symbolizes a kingdom, hence why this beast in the book of Daniel was said to symbolize a kingdom,


"He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth... (Daniel 7:23 [NIV])
As such, the first beast having multiple heads of Revelation symbolizes multiple kingdoms, hence why it rises out of the sea


And I stood upon the sand of the sea. And I saw from out of the sea a wild beast ascending, having ten horns and seven heads... (Revelation of John 13:1 [ABP])
Since the sea symbolizes many kinds of peoples and languages,


And he says to me, The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes, and nations, and languages. (Revelation of John 17:15 [ABP])
As so, each head of this first beast symbolizes a series of kingdoms that comes forth chronologically one after the other, with the sixth head as the current ruling power at the time the vision was given,


And there are seven kings -- the five fallen, the one is, the other not yet is come... (Revelation of John 17:10 [ABP])
With one kingdom expected to come, and five kingdoms already fallen. As such, the current ruling kingdom at the time the vision was given were the Romans. And after these seven heads, comes an eighth head, and that is the kingdom that will be in ruling power at the coming of Jesus Christ,


And the beast which was, and is not, even he is eighth, and he is from out of the seven, and he goes unto destruction. (Revelation of John 17:11 [ABP])
As such, just as we observe the first beast rising from many peoples, and just as each head encompassing a large span of time throughout a series of kingdoms, we can also observe a correlation between these other descriptions of the first beast,


And the beast which I saw was likened to a leopard, and his feet as a bear, and his mouth as a mouth of a lion... (Revelation of John 13:2 [ABP])
To the four beasts of a Daniel, which were four kingdoms, in which case beast one of Daniel was likened to a lion, which relates to the mouth of a lion of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Babylonians,


And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another. The first was like a lion and had eagles’ wings. Then as I looked its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man, and the mind of a man was given to it. (Daniel 7:3-4 [ESV])
And beast two of Daniel was likened to a bear, which relates to the feet of a bear of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Medo-Persians,


And behold, another beast, a second one, like a bear. It was raised up on one side. It had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth; and it was told, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’ (Daniel 7:5 [ESV])
And beast three of Daniel was likened to a leopard, which relates to the appearance of a leopard of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Greeks,


After this I looked, and behold, another, like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back. And the beast had four heads, and dominion was given to it. (Daniel 7:6 [ESV])
And beast four of Daniel had ten horns, which relates to the ten horns of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Romans,


After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, terrifying and dreadful and exceedingly strong. It had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. (Daniel 7:7 [ESV])
As such, because of this correlation, we can further identify the heads that precede the Romans as the sixth head, which were the Greeks as the fifth head, and before them were the Medo-Persians as the fourth head, and before them were the Babylonians as the third head. And lastly, we can also identify the two remaining heads, which were the Assyrians as the second head, and ultimately, we arrive at the first kingdom to ever rule over the people of God, which were the Egyptians as the first head, who enslaved the Israelites for around 400 years,


Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there. (Genesis 15:13 [NIV])
And so, the first beast symbolizes all kingdoms ruling over and coming against the people of God from the time of the Egyptians to the time of the second coming of Jesus Christ. This is also why anyone who is not written in the book of life ends up worshiping the first beast, both in the past, present, and future, because throughout time the first beast has manifested itself through various kingdoms, which were all powerful and influential kingdoms for their time,


and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. (Revelation 13:8 [ESV])
And just as the dragon gives his authority to the first beast,


...And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. (Revelation 13:2 [ESV])
So has Satan, who is symbolized by the dragon, throughout time, has granted his authority to each kingdom symbolized by the heads of first beast,

in which the god of this eon blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so as to not shine forth to them the illumination of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is image of the unseen of God. (2 Corinthians 4:4 [ABP])


The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. (Luke 4:5-6 [NIV])
And whoever worships these kingdoms by serving them, also worships Satan,


And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?” (Revelation 13:4 [ESV])
And so, the Romans, as the sixth head of the first beast having ten horns, which is also beast four of Daniel having ten horns, broke up into ten kingdoms, which were the Alemanni, the Franks, the Burgundians, the Suevi, the Anglo-Saxons, the Visigoths, the Lombards, the Vandals, the Ostrogoths, and the Heruli. And during these horns, came forth an eleventh little horn,


I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots... (Daniel 7:8 [AKJV])
In which case, this little horn symbolizes the papacy, hence why the little horn is described as having the eyes of a man,

...And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man... (Daniel 7:8 [NHEB])
In which case, the papacy destroyed the Vandals, the Ostrogoths, and the Heruli, which are the three horns uprooted by the eleventh little horn. This little horn not only symbolizes the papacy, but is also the antichrist that the elect were expecting to come,

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. (1 John 2:18 [NIV])

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship... (2 Thessalonians 2:3 [NASB])


“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. (Daniel 11:36 [ESV])
And the apostasy that came brought forth the catholic church, which in turn brought forth the papacy, who through various popes has made arrogant boasts exalting himself to be God on earth,


...and a mouth speaking arrogant things. (Daniel 7:8 [NHEB])
Which correlates with the first beast of Revelation also speaking haughty words,


And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words...  (Revelation 13:5 [ESV])
Even altering Jewish laws and times by establishing new times, such as Christmas, Easter, Sunday as the new Sabbath,


He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws... (Daniel 7:25 [NIV])
And has even spoken blasphemies against God and those who dwell in heaven through many false teachings,


And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words. It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. (Revelation 13:5-6 [ESV])
This little horn is also said to persecute the holy people for a time, times, and half a time,


...The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.
(Daniel 7:25 [NIV])
And since Nebuchadnezzar lost his sanity for seven times, which was seven years, therefore a time is derived to be one year,


Let his mind be changed from that of a man and let him be given the mind of an animal, till seven times pass by for him. (Daniel 4:16 [NIV])
As such, a times is derived to be two times, therefore, one time plus two times plus a half time is three and a half years, which corresponds to forty two months that the first beast is said to have authority to wage war against the holy people,


And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months.  (Revelation 13:5 [ESV])

It was given power to wage war against God's holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
 (Revelation 13:7 [ESV])
And from a known prophecy in Daniel, one prophetic day is derived to be one literal year, which was the seventy weeks prophecy of Daniel which predicted the coming of Jesus Christ to be four hundred and ninety years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity,


Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy. (Daniel 9:24 [ASV])
Therefore, forty two months, which is also three and a half years, is derived to be one thousand two hundred and sixty literal years. As such, this time of papal authority was fulfilled beginning around 538 AD when the pope was officially granted power by the Justinian Code, to around 1798 AD when the pope was taken into captivity by the French, and so, throughout this appointed time, inquisitions and massacres were perpetrated by the rule of the papacy, which indeed martyred the holy people of God. And when the pope was taken into captivity is when the sixth head received its fatal wound,


One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound... (Revelation 13:3 [NIV])
After the sixth head, also came the Ottomans as the seventh head, which came for a little time,


...the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. (Revelation 17:10 [NIV])
And around the time that the papacy was abolished, came forth the second beast of Revelation,

Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth...(Revelation 13:11 [NIV])
As such, just as the seas symbolize many peoples, the earth symbolizes a sparse population, and so the United States ascended as a new kingdom in what was said to be a new world, thus fulfilling the prophecy of the second beast. And in likewise manner that the second beast exercises authority in relation to the first beast,

It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. (Revelation 13:12 [NIV])
So has the United States come forth as a kingdom related to the kingdoms symbolized by the first beast, which were the European colonies that gave rise to the Americans. In which case, the United States ascended in the form of government that the sixth head first was, which was the democratic government that the Romans first were, which is a rulership of the majority, determining good or evil by the vote of the majority. In which case, this democratic form of government is also what the eighth and final head will be,

The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. (Revelation 17:11 [NIV])


The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come. (Romans 17:8 [NIV])
Since at the time the vision was given, the sixth head was not a republic, but a kingdom ruled by Roman emperors, hence "the beast that once was, and now is not". This also relates to why the ten horns that the Romans broke up into had crowns,


There much truth in caaviria post up to the point that I stop at, after where I stop I would interpret Revelation 17 and 18 different than the way he did. His post is dead on, but he begins to miss the mark going forward.

Glorious said:
Quote
I only wrote/explained what the Bible says a  kingdom of God is : righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost (God). Any person having a combination of these three things working effectively in himself or herself partakes in the kingdom of God.

Conversely,  the spiritual kingdom of the devil is unrighteousness,  lack of peace and lack of joy in the devil. Any person having a combination of these three things working effectively in himself or herself partakes in the kingdom of Satan.
This true, but this is not what cgaviria was speaking about. Again you said:
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Spiritual kingdoms, symbolized by the beasts, are not and will never be empires and kingdoms of men as you claim.
The beast symbolical/spiritually represent LITERAL KINGDOMS of the last days who are UNDER THE POWER of the old serpent, the devil himself, as he works THROUGH THEM to destroy the holy seed of Jesus Christ. He deceives them by building them a paradise/resorts in this world giving them more than they can really enjoy in many lifetimes, much less than one. We all know how much riches increased even in our short in life!
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That is just your wild imagination and myth.
He's not that far off, maybe closer than you, and that is NOT to put you down, for I do not know your whole teachings on eschatology.
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It comes by revelation.
It most certainly does, and also hard work over many years of studying. Even some righteous people NEVER see the truth on these subject, but that does not make them any less godly than the next brother, or sister, and they might even be more righteous practically speaking than those that DO SEE. Knowledge puffs up, even the best of God's children. 

Offline Glorious

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RB wrote:
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The beast symbolical/spiritually represent LITERAL KINGDOMS of the last days who are UNDER THE POWER of the old serpent, the devil himself, as he works THROUGH THEM to destroy the holy seed of Jesus Christ. He deceives them by building them a paradise/resorts in this world giving them more than they can really enjoy in many lifetimes, much less than one. We all know how much riches increased even in our short in life!

  • I wrote, and you agree, that the beasts represent spiritual kingdoms.
  • I believe you also agree with the scriptural definition of a kingdom, which according to  Romans 14:17 KJV is the emboldened: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Consistent with #2, we can say "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink in the body of the believer; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost who is within the believer".

Any doctrine about the kingdom of heaven that is not founded upon God's righteousness, peace and joy within the believer (or believers), crumbles.
 

Quote
The beast symbolical/spiritually represent LITERAL KINGDOMS of the last days who are UNDER THE POWER of the old serpent, the devil himself, as he works THROUGH THEM to destroy the holy seed of Jesus Christ. He deceives them by building them a paradise/resorts in this world giving them more than they can really enjoy in many lifetimes, much less than one. We all know how much riches increased even in our short in life!

RB, I suggest you give just one convincing scripture (or just one of Jesus' teachings about the kingdom) directly or indirectly showing that kingdoms of heaven represent literal kingdoms. If you can provide, then your submission stands.

If there is no such scripture available, let us accept that these kingdoms that are within the believer are the same as the beasts also within the believer. All kingdoms of God are spiritual and, therefore, unseen. They are not, and are/were never meant to be, literal/geographical kingdoms.

For most folks, it is impossible to understand how the Book of Revelation fits into the above. Well, that is why it is (and remains) a mystery only revealed by the Spirit and not by many years of studying scriptures.

Explaining further requires, first, teaching all basics of the heavenly pattern of (all things). From the pattern, we get to understand the mystery of God from its beginning to its end. This is not the thread for such teaching.

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RB, I suggest you give just one convincing scripture (or just one of Jesus' teachings about the kingdom) directly or indirectly showing that kingdoms of heaven represent literal kingdoms.
Glorious, I never said that the kingdom of heaven/God is a literal in this world, never. You said:
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I only wrote/explained what the Bible says a  kingdom of God is : righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost (God). Any person having a combination of these three things working effectively in himself or herself partakes in the kingdom of God. Conversely,  the spiritual kingdom of the devil is unrighteousness,  lack of peace and lack of joy in the devil. Any person having a combination of these three things working effectively in himself or herself partakes in the kingdom of Satan.
I said to you:
Quote
This true, but this is not what cgaviria was speaking about.
I did not disagree with your understanding (and mine btw~concerning the spiritual nature of the kingdom of God) of the kingdom of heaven/God.
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If there is no such scripture available, let us accept that these kingdoms that are within the believer
You are confused on a few things. First, the kingdom of God is NOT within us, but we have been translated into the kingdom of God's dead Son. Now, before you jump back, allow me to just go ahead and use the scriptures that you think may support  you. First, we as God's elect have been taken from the kingdom of darkness, and by the power of the Spirit of God, translated  into the kingdom of light, truth, peace, joy, etc.
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Colossians 1:12,13~"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son::
At the moment it is a spiritual kingdom, but one day will be a literal kingdom on the new earth and heaven, where we shall sit down with Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Jesus is in heaven, upon David's throne WAITING till God His Father makes his enemies his footstool. Secondly the only scriptures that you could use to teach that the kingdom of God is within a believer would be:
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Luke 17:20,21~"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Who was Jesus speaking to? The Pharisees~he said to them, as they pressed him concerning when the kingdom of God should come, he said to THEM, NOT to his disciples, but to the Pharisees~
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Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you
The true sense means that the kingdom of God was within their "MIST" as the KING was standing right before them and speaking to them, and they knew it not. Enough said proving that the kingdom of God is NOT within us, but that we are spiritually IN the kingdom of heaven NOW, by knowing Jesus Christ, and submitting to his lordship over our life. We are now children of light, no longer walk in darkness, as we once did.
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All kingdoms of God are spiritual and, therefore, unseen.
In one sense, yes, you are correct, yet we see where the kingdom of God is when we see people who once did not see, yet now do see, who once walked in darkness, yet now walk as children of light, etc. etc.
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They are not, and are/were never meant to be, literal/geographical kingdom
Agreed...not in this world.
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For most folks, it is impossible to understand how the Book of Revelation fits into the above. Well, that is why it is (and remains) a mystery only revealed by the Spirit and not by many years of studying scriptures.
Really? You have not as of yet made it fit, and will not with your understanding~ and yes truth comes by divine revelation~YET, after MANY years of searching, praying and being a spiritual workman that alone keep one from being ashamed when his errors are exposed. Certain doctrine in the scriptures are NOT for a young believer or young teenager believers so to speak, but for those who by reason of use have their spiritual senses enlighten by the Spirit of the Living God OVER TIME.
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Hebrews 5:13,14~"For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
There, believe God's testimony concerning what I'm saying.
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Explaining further requires, first, teaching all basics of the heavenly pattern of (all things). From the pattern, we get to understand the mystery of God from its beginning to its end.
You are speaking to an elder, and if I may say, doing a sloppy job of trying to tell me, how to understand the scriptures. Much like watching one of my younger grandchildren eating, they know just enough to make a big mess, and a mess they generally make. 
« Last Edit: Thu Oct 20, 2016 - 05:24:18 by RB »

Offline cgaviria

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A beast in prophecy symbolizes a kingdom, hence why this beast in the book of Daniel was said to symbolize a kingdom,


"He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth... (Daniel 7:23 [NIV])
As such, the first beast having multiple heads of Revelation symbolizes multiple kingdoms, hence why it rises out of the sea


And I stood upon the sand of the sea. And I saw from out of the sea a wild beast ascending, having ten horns and seven heads... (Revelation of John 13:1 [ABP])
Since the sea symbolizes many kinds of peoples and languages,


And he says to me, The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes, and nations, and languages. (Revelation of John 17:15 [ABP])
As so, each head of this first beast symbolizes a series of kingdoms that comes forth chronologically one after the other, with the sixth head as the current ruling power at the time the vision was given,


And there are seven kings -- the five fallen, the one is, the other not yet is come... (Revelation of John 17:10 [ABP])
With one kingdom expected to come, and five kingdoms already fallen. As such, the current ruling kingdom at the time the vision was given were the Romans. And after these seven heads, comes an eighth head, and that is the kingdom that will be in ruling power at the coming of Jesus Christ,


And the beast which was, and is not, even he is eighth, and he is from out of the seven, and he goes unto destruction. (Revelation of John 17:11 [ABP])
As such, just as we observe the first beast rising from many peoples, and just as each head encompassing a large span of time throughout a series of kingdoms, we can also observe a correlation between these other descriptions of the first beast,


And the beast which I saw was likened to a leopard, and his feet as a bear, and his mouth as a mouth of a lion... (Revelation of John 13:2 [ABP])
To the four beasts of a Daniel, which were four kingdoms, in which case beast one of Daniel was likened to a lion, which relates to the mouth of a lion of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Babylonians,


And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another. The first was like a lion and had eagles’ wings. Then as I looked its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man, and the mind of a man was given to it. (Daniel 7:3-4 [ESV])
And beast two of Daniel was likened to a bear, which relates to the feet of a bear of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Medo-Persians,


And behold, another beast, a second one, like a bear. It was raised up on one side. It had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth; and it was told, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’ (Daniel 7:5 [ESV])
And beast three of Daniel was likened to a leopard, which relates to the appearance of a leopard of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Greeks,


After this I looked, and behold, another, like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back. And the beast had four heads, and dominion was given to it. (Daniel 7:6 [ESV])
And beast four of Daniel had ten horns, which relates to the ten horns of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Romans,


After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, terrifying and dreadful and exceedingly strong. It had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. (Daniel 7:7 [ESV])
As such, because of this correlation, we can further identify the heads that precede the Romans as the sixth head, which were the Greeks as the fifth head, and before them were the Medo-Persians as the fourth head, and before them were the Babylonians as the third head. And lastly, we can also identify the two remaining heads, which were the Assyrians as the second head, and ultimately, we arrive at the first kingdom to ever rule over the people of God, which were the Egyptians as the first head, who enslaved the Israelites for around 400 years,


Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there. (Genesis 15:13 [NIV])
And so, the first beast symbolizes all kingdoms ruling over and coming against the people of God from the time of the Egyptians to the time of the second coming of Jesus Christ. This is also why anyone who is not written in the book of life ends up worshiping the first beast, both in the past, present, and future, because throughout time the first beast has manifested itself through various kingdoms, which were all powerful and influential kingdoms for their time,


and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. (Revelation 13:8 [ESV])
And just as the dragon gives his authority to the first beast,


...And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. (Revelation 13:2 [ESV])
So has Satan, who is symbolized by the dragon, throughout time, has granted his authority to each kingdom symbolized by the heads of first beast,

in which the god of this eon blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so as to not shine forth to them the illumination of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is image of the unseen of God. (2 Corinthians 4:4 [ABP])


The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. (Luke 4:5-6 [NIV])
And whoever worships these kingdoms by serving them, also worships Satan,


And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?” (Revelation 13:4 [ESV])
And so, the Romans, as the sixth head of the first beast having ten horns, which is also beast four of Daniel having ten horns, broke up into ten kingdoms, which were the Alemanni, the Franks, the Burgundians, the Suevi, the Anglo-Saxons, the Visigoths, the Lombards, the Vandals, the Ostrogoths, and the Heruli. And during these horns, came forth an eleventh little horn,


I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots... (Daniel 7:8 [AKJV])
In which case, this little horn symbolizes the papacy, hence why the little horn is described as having the eyes of a man,

...And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man... (Daniel 7:8 [NHEB])
In which case, the papacy destroyed the Vandals, the Ostrogoths, and the Heruli, which are the three horns uprooted by the eleventh little horn. This little horn not only symbolizes the papacy, but is also the antichrist that the elect were expecting to come,

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. (1 John 2:18 [NIV])

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship... (2 Thessalonians 2:3 [NASB])


“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. (Daniel 11:36 [ESV])
And the apostasy that came brought forth the catholic church, which in turn brought forth the papacy, who through various popes has made arrogant boasts exalting himself to be God on earth,


...and a mouth speaking arrogant things. (Daniel 7:8 [NHEB])
Which correlates with the first beast of Revelation also speaking haughty words,


And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words...  (Revelation 13:5 [ESV])
Even altering Jewish laws and times by establishing new times, such as Christmas, Easter, Sunday as the new Sabbath,


He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws... (Daniel 7:25 [NIV])
And has even spoken blasphemies against God and those who dwell in heaven through many false teachings,


And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words. It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. (Revelation 13:5-6 [ESV])
This little horn is also said to persecute the holy people for a time, times, and half a time,


...The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.
(Daniel 7:25 [NIV])
And since Nebuchadnezzar lost his sanity for seven times, which was seven years, therefore a time is derived to be one year,


Let his mind be changed from that of a man and let him be given the mind of an animal, till seven times pass by for him. (Daniel 4:16 [NIV])
As such, a times is derived to be two times, therefore, one time plus two times plus a half time is three and a half years, which corresponds to forty two months that the first beast is said to have authority to wage war against the holy people,


And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months.  (Revelation 13:5 [ESV])

It was given power to wage war against God's holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
 (Revelation 13:7 [ESV])
And from a known prophecy in Daniel, one prophetic day is derived to be one literal year, which was the seventy weeks prophecy of Daniel which predicted the coming of Jesus Christ to be four hundred and ninety years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity,


Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy. (Daniel 9:24 [ASV])
Therefore, forty two months, which is also three and a half years, is derived to be one thousand two hundred and sixty literal years. As such, this time of papal authority was fulfilled beginning around 538 AD when the pope was officially granted power by the Justinian Code, to around 1798 AD when the pope was taken into captivity by the French, and so, throughout this appointed time, inquisitions and massacres were perpetrated by the rule of the papacy, which indeed martyred the holy people of God. And when the pope was taken into captivity is when the sixth head received its fatal wound,


One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound... (Revelation 13:3 [NIV])
After the sixth head, also came the Ottomans as the seventh head, which came for a little time,


...the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. (Revelation 17:10 [NIV])
And around the time that the papacy was abolished, came forth the second beast of Revelation,

Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth...(Revelation 13:11 [NIV])
As such, just as the seas symbolize many peoples, the earth symbolizes a sparse population, and so the United States ascended as a new kingdom in what was said to be a new world, thus fulfilling the prophecy of the second beast. And in likewise manner that the second beast exercises authority in relation to the first beast,

It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. (Revelation 13:12 [NIV])
So has the United States come forth as a kingdom related to the kingdoms symbolized by the first beast, which were the European colonies that gave rise to the Americans. In which case, the United States ascended in the form of government that the sixth head first was, which was the democratic government that the Romans first were, which is a rulership of the majority, determining good or evil by the vote of the majority. In which case, this democratic form of government is also what the eighth and final head will be,

The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. (Revelation 17:11 [NIV])


The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come. (Romans 17:8 [NIV])
Since at the time the vision was given, the sixth head was not a republic, but a kingdom ruled by Roman emperors, hence "the beast that once was, and now is not". This also relates to why the ten horns that the Romans broke up into had crowns,


There much truth in caaviria post up to the point that I stop at, after where I stop I would interpret Revelation 17 and 18 different than the way he did. His post is dead on, but he begins to miss the mark going forward.

Glorious said:
Quote
I only wrote/explained what the Bible says a  kingdom of God is : righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost (God). Any person having a combination of these three things working effectively in himself or herself partakes in the kingdom of God.

Conversely,  the spiritual kingdom of the devil is unrighteousness,  lack of peace and lack of joy in the devil. Any person having a combination of these three things working effectively in himself or herself partakes in the kingdom of Satan.
This true, but this is not what cgaviria was speaking about. Again you said:
Quote
Spiritual kingdoms, symbolized by the beasts, are not and will never be empires and kingdoms of men as you claim.
The beast symbolical/spiritually represent LITERAL KINGDOMS of the last days who are UNDER THE POWER of the old serpent, the devil himself, as he works THROUGH THEM to destroy the holy seed of Jesus Christ. He deceives them by building them a paradise/resorts in this world giving them more than they can really enjoy in many lifetimes, much less than one. We all know how much riches increased even in our short in life!
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That is just your wild imagination and myth.
He's not that far off, maybe closer than you, and that is NOT to put you down, for I do not know your whole teachings on eschatology.
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It comes by revelation.
It most certainly does, and also hard work over many years of studying. Even some righteous people NEVER see the truth on these subject, but that does not make them any less godly than the next brother, or sister, and they might even be more righteous practically speaking than those that DO SEE. Knowledge puffs up, even the best of God's children.

Reason with me on which passage you are referring to that you interpret differently.

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Reason with me on which passage you are referring to that you interpret differently.
No problem~I will. I also will reason with you on the mark of the beast which you are way off base. I'm having a glass of wine, and I do not reason when I'm relaxing. Tomorrow....RB Besides, late afternoon belongs to my wife, not the forum.

bornofgod

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Man cannot interpret the prophecies written in Revelation but they certainly try to guess what they mean. Man's number is "666" and that's why he cannot interpret something he's a part of. Man will deny that he worships the Beast and Satan.

Offline Tertullian

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Man cannot interpret the prophecies written in Revelation but they certainly try to guess what they mean. Man's number is "666" and that's why he cannot interpret something he's a part of. Man will deny that he worships the Beast and Satan.

You might try reading the Bible before you refer to it.  Revelation doesn't say "man's number is 666".  It refers to "a man" whose number is 666.  And, it invites the reader to figure out who it is:  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The only reasonable answer is Nero.


bornofgod

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The only way you're going to receive any knowledge of God to understand the prophecies is if you listen to the Gospel of God that I've been preaching for our Creator for the past 8 years. Otherwise, it's impossible for you to understand what the Tree of Life is.

Offline cgaviria

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Offline dpr

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Quote
It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. (Revelation 13:12 [NIV])
So has the United States come forth as a kingdom related to the kingdoms symbolized by the first beast, which were the European colonies that gave rise to the Americans. In which case, the United States ascended in the form of government that the sixth head first was, which was the democratic government that the Romans first were, which is a rulership of the majority, determining good or evil by the vote of the majority. In which case, this democratic form of government is also what the eighth and final head will be,
....

What a bunch of garbage!

cgaviria's interpretation reads like a 1960's Communist Socialist novel.

Offline Yahu

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You have many statements that are just plain assumptions or blatantly false.

You have to understand the spiritual realms in opposition to Yah to understand many of the biblical references.  The demonic realms are ruled over by Satan BUT there are MANY major principalities that rule individual realms within the demonic realms.  Each of those major principalities have their own symbols.  Yes, Satan is equated as a 'lion' (and as the pagan sun god associated with fire) BUT the bear and the leopard are symbols of other major pagan deities.  The bear is one of the sacred beasts associated with who we would call the Jezebel Spirit and Revelation calls 'the Great Whore'.  She was the goddess Ashtoreth in the Canaanite pantheon who had a sacred bear in her Grove.  Her spiritual realm is the realm of the sea, ie 'bitter waters'.  Waters are equated throughout scripture as a reference to people.  We are made up of mostly water but the sea is a spiritual realm of bitter waters ruled over by a specific principality.

The 'kingdom' beasts of Daniel also reference the 'ruling spirit' over each of those empires.  Each of the major principalities take turns ruling over successive empires in a time-sharing basis.  The Leopard, for example, is the anti-christ spirit who rules over the realm of 'air' as in 'prince of the powers of the air'.  He is NOT Satan but the 3rd ranked demonic principality.  The Anti-Christ of Revelation is possessed by this spirit and it is his turn to rule over the next empire.  After Alexander the Great, he only ruled over 1/4th of the divided empire, the Syrian branch.  In the Canaanite pantheon, the anti-christ spirit is the pagan deity Baal.  Granted there are many specific Baalim (plural of Baal) but Baal just means 'lord' so Baalpeor is basically 'lord of sex' referencing a specific member of the Baalim while Baal alone is a specific member of the Baalim.  Baal-zebub or 'lord of the flies' is a reference to Molech, the 'shameful king' in the Canaanite pantheon.

There are four major demonic realms ruled over by the top four major principalities.  Each has a cardinal direction (north, south, east, west) and elemental symbol (fire, water, air, earth) as well as animal symbol (lion, bear, leopard, cow).  In the Canaanite pantheon they were Molech (shameful king), Asthoreth (shameful star), Baal (lord/prince) and Asherah ie 'mother earth', the pagan ROCK of Det 32 who rules over spirits of places, ie Mountains, towns, rivers, ...

If you don't know/understand the pagan symbols of those in constant conflict against Yah and Israel, how can you interpret the symbols in Revelation (or other prophetic texts) correctly?

Offline SwordMaster

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So has the United States come forth as a kingdom related to the kingdoms symbolized by the first beast, which were the European colonies that gave rise to the Americans. In which case, the United States ascended in the form of government that the sixth head first was, which was the democratic government that the Romans first were, which is a rulership of the majority, determining good or evil by the vote of the majority. In which case, this democratic form of government is also what the eighth and final head will be,
....


What a bunch of garbage!

cgaviria's interpretation reads like a 1960's Communist Socialist novel.

I have tried to tell him on many occasions that he doesn't know what he is talking about on a great many things...his latest, in trying to tell us that the world was once surrounded by a huge layer of ice rather than water vapor (which, of course, is physically impossible on many points).

He wants to be a teacher of Scripture, but doesn't understand how to correctly interpret Scripture.


Offline Star of David

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A beast in prophecy symbolizes a kingdom, hence why this beast in the book of Daniel was said to symbolize a kingdom,
As such, the first beast having multiple heads of Revelation symbolizes multiple kingdoms, hence why it rises out of the sea
Since the sea symbolizes many kinds of peoples and languages,
As so, each head of this first beast symbolizes a series of kingdoms that comes forth chronologically one after the other, with the sixth head as the current ruling power at the time the vision was given,
With one kingdom expected to come, and five kingdoms already fallen. As such, the current ruling kingdom at the time the vision was given were the Romans. And after these seven heads, comes an eighth head, and that is the kingdom that will be in ruling power at the coming of Jesus Christ,
As such, just as we observe the first beast rising from many peoples, and just as each head encompassing a large span of time throughout a series of kingdoms, we can also observe a correlation between these other descriptions of the first beast,
To the four beasts of a Daniel, which were four kingdoms, in which case beast one of Daniel was likened to a lion, which relates to the mouth of a lion of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Babylonians,
And beast two of Daniel was likened to a bear, which relates to the feet of a bear of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Medo-Persians,
And beast three of Daniel was likened to a leopard, which relates to the appearance of a leopard of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Greeks,
And beast four of Daniel had ten horns, which relates to the ten horns of the first beast of Revelation, who we came to know as the Romans,
As such, because of this correlation, we can further identify the heads that precede the Romans as the sixth head, which were the Greeks as the fifth head, and before them were the Medo-Persians as the fourth head, and before them were the Babylonians as the third head. And lastly, we can also identify the two remaining heads, which were the Assyrians as the second head, and ultimately, we arrive at the first kingdom to ever rule over the people of God, which were the Egyptians as the first head, who enslaved the Israelites for around 400 years,
And so, the first beast symbolizes all kingdoms ruling over and coming against the people of God from the time of the Egyptians to the time of the second coming of Jesus Christ. This is also why anyone who is not written in the book of life ends up worshiping the first beast, both in the past, present, and future, because throughout time the first beast has manifested itself through various kingdoms, which were all powerful and influential kingdoms for their time,
And just as the dragon gives his authority to the first beast,
So has Satan, who is symbolized by the dragon, throughout time, has granted his authority to each kingdom symbolized by the heads of first beast,
And whoever worships these kingdoms by serving them, also worships Satan,
And so, the Romans, as the sixth head of the first beast having ten horns, which is also beast four of Daniel having ten horns, broke up into ten kingdoms, which were the Alemanni, the Franks, the Burgundians, the Suevi, the Anglo-Saxons, the Visigoths, the Lombards, the Vandals, the Ostrogoths, and the Heruli. And during these horns, came forth an eleventh little horn,
In which case, this little horn symbolizes the papacy, hence why the little horn is described as having the eyes of a man,
In which case, the papacy destroyed the Vandals, the Ostrogoths, and the Heruli, which are the three horns uprooted by the eleventh little horn. This little horn not only symbolizes the papacy, but is also the antichrist that the elect were expecting to come,
And the apostasy that came brought forth the catholic church, which in turn brought forth the papacy, who through various popes has made arrogant boasts exalting himself to be God on earth,
Which correlates with the first beast of Revelation also speaking haughty words,
Even altering Jewish laws and times by establishing new times, such as Christmas, Easter, Sunday as the new Sabbath,
And has even spoken blasphemies against God and those who dwell in heaven through many false teachings,
This little horn is also said to persecute the holy people for a time, times, and half a time,
And since Nebuchadnezzar lost his sanity for seven times, which was seven years, therefore a time is derived to be one year,
As such, a times is derived to be two times, therefore, one time plus two times plus a half time is three and a half years, which corresponds to forty two months that the first beast is said to have authority to wage war against the holy people,
And from a known prophecy in Daniel, one prophetic day is derived to be one literal year, which was the seventy weeks prophecy of Daniel which predicted the coming of Jesus Christ to be four hundred and ninety years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity,
Therefore, forty two months, which is also three and a half years, is derived to be one thousand two hundred and sixty literal years. As such, this time of papal authority was fulfilled beginning around 538 AD when the pope was officially granted power by the Justinian Code, to around 1798 AD when the pope was taken into captivity by the French, and so, throughout this appointed time, inquisitions and massacres were perpetrated by the rule of the papacy, which indeed martyred the holy people of God. And when the pope was taken into captivity is when the sixth head received its fatal wound,
After the sixth head, also came the Ottomans as the seventh head, which came for a little time,
And around the time that the papacy was abolished, came forth the second beast of Revelation,
As such, just as the seas symbolize many peoples, the earth symbolizes a sparse population, and so the United States ascended as a new kingdom in what was said to be a new world, thus fulfilling the prophecy of the second beast. And in likewise manner that the second beast exercises authority in relation to the first beast,
So has the United States come forth as a kingdom related to the kingdoms symbolized by the first beast, which were the European colonies that gave rise to the Americans. In which case, the United States ascended in the form of government that the sixth head first was, which was the democratic government that the Romans first were, which is a rulership of the majority, determining good or evil by the vote of the majority. In which case, this democratic form of government is also what the eighth and final head will be,
Since at the time the vision was given, the sixth head was not a republic, but a kingdom ruled by Roman emperors, hence "the beast that once was, and now is not". This also relates to why the ten horns that the Romans broke up into had crowns,
As opposed to the ten final horns of the first beast that do not have crowns, when the time that the eighth head comes to be, because a horn with a crown symbolizes a monarchy whereas a horn without a crown symbolizes a republic. As such, the government of the United States was formed in the image of the Roman government, which is the form of government that it tells the inhabitants of the earth to form as an image of the beast,
Which are democratic forms of government throughout the world that image the first beast and itself, and so, we see this already fulfilled with the promotion of independent democracies by the United States throughout the entire world, even fighting wars to create and promote new democracies and quash opposition, thus also fulfilling this prophecy,
In which case, most of the kingdoms of the world have already become republics that image the first beast. And not only does the second beast influence the entire world, but it also exercises great power, to even cause fire to rain down from heaven,
Which relates to the power the United States exercises by its own technology, to even bomb and destroy entire cities using its military and air force, displaying incredible power that no kingdom has ever had before. Such signs, among other technological wonders in various industries, such as communications, transportation, and medicine, have caused the entire world to be in awe and deceived by its signs,
Which has caused the world to want to mimic the Americans as a result of the deception. The second beast has not just promoted its form of government to the world, but also its way of life, which includes entertainment with movies & music, financial system of debt, its sexual lewdness, and decadence. The two horns of the second beast symbolize congress and the presidency as the two ruling powers of the United States,
In which case, as a lamb, the United States is perceived to be godly, yet as a dragon it spreads wickedness around the world. During this time, the eighth and final head of the first beast is already forming as the European Union, in which case many countries have already given their authority to this union, yet its final form will be a republic that will be given authority by ten kingdoms that have not yet received authority,
And their sole purpose when they receive authority will be to give their authority to the final formation of the European republic, in which case, this final republic will wage war against Jesus Christ when he returns,
And as the formation of the eighth head comes to be, the fatal wound of the sixth was healed,
Which was the reinstatement of the papacy around 1929 by Benito Mussolini, which brought forth the whore of Babylon, which sits upon the first beast that has the seven heads and ten horns,
And is involved with the kings and governments of the world, and has made the inhabitants of the entire world drunk with the wine of her false teachings,
And is also a mother of whores,
Because as a false church symbolized by a whore, she has given birth to more whores, which are all the false churches and false denominations that have come forth from the catholic church, borrowing many of her false teachings. In which case, the papacy is enthroned at the Vatican, which sits in the city that has seven hills, which is Rome,ker
As such, the Vatican sits upon the first beast because she is a culmination of all the heads of the first beast, which is why the teachings and symbols of the catholic church all relate to teachings and symbols going back to the Babylonians and the Egyptians. The whore of Babylon is also said to be drunk with the blood of the saints,
Because the papacy persecuted the people of God as the first beast having authority for one thousand two hundred and sixty years before it became drunk with their blood when it became the whore of Babylon during the formation of the eighth and final head of the first beast. As such, the Vatican will be destroyed by the ten kingdoms that will give their authority to the final European republic,
And before they burn the Vatican with fire, they will first make her naked by exposing her and will then will devour her flesh by ransacking her. This is one of the final signs before the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Up until December 13, 1990, I bought the entire Antichrist, Armageddon, Seven Years of Tribulation, Rapture, Mark of the Beast, etc., etc., etc. scenario during the years leading up to Christ's return to earth, hook, line, and sinker.

Two years later, the end of 1992 through today and going forward, I have concluded, for once and for all, that this dire scenario (including the Antichrist, the Two Beasts of Revelation, and the Whore) to be a myth and is a departure from reality.



Offline Yahu

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He wants to be a teacher of Scripture, but doesn't understand how to correctly interpret Scripture.

That is a common problem in the church today.  It helps to have a prophet calling to teach on prophetic writings.  It is up to the prophets to interpret the prophets but we are warned against 'false prophets'.

It is amazing how many try to teach without even a basic understanding of the original languages.  For example, the kingdom of the leopard is divided up to the 'four winds' but the Hebrew word for winds is Ruach, which also means 'spirit'.  It could just as easily be translated that the leopard's kingdom was divided up to the 'four spirits'.  If you don't know who/what each of those spirits associated with the cardinal directions are, it just looks like a figure of speech.  We know that Antiochus IV Epiphanes is used as a type/shadow of the anti-christ and ruled over the Syrian branch of the divided kingdom.  Scripture even calls the anti-christ, the Syrian, in places.  Obviously, the anti-christ spirit is one of the 'four winds/spirits'.  The original anti-christ figure in scripture was Nimrod whose name means 'hunts with leopards'.  The leopard is the animal symbol of the anti-christ spirt.

Even the root source of many of the animal symbols used in scripture is totally overlooked.  Many of those symbols like equating Israel to sheep comes right out of the 'animal dream' prophecy in the book of Enoch which is totally ignored because it isn't in the standard western canon.   The use of those animal symbols all over the OT pretty much proves its origin predates those OT references.

You also have to know which OT prophecies and references are dealing with individual principalities like the anti-christ.  One that is often overlooked is the 'prince of Tyrus' in Eze 28.  Oh everyone recognizes the 'king of Tyrus' as a reference to who we think of as Lucifer but fail to understand there are 3 prophecies to the primary pagan deities of Tire/Sidon, ie Baal, Molech and Ashtoreth.

Many people are starting out from false christian myths spread within the church that are not even rooted in scripture.  An example of this is the belief in a mythical pre-adamic rebellion of 1/3 of the angels led by the greatest angel Lucifer.  That belief was spread by Augustine in the early church and became the standard doctrine.  All of it is based on a few misinterpreted verses like the one about the 1/3 stars pulled down by the dragon which takes place during the tribulation.  Even the name Lucifer isn't a name but a Latin Epithet of the pagan sun god of antiquity that is called 'ben Shachar', the son of another Canaanite pagan deity.  Lucifer isn't even a fallen angel but the 'son of' one, ie Nephilim.  To think he led some mythic rebellion in heaven is nonsense.  He is the son of one of the four angels bound at the Euphrates.  Lucifer wasn't even born until after the flood.  He was the pagan sun god in Babel.  He was Shemesh to the Babylonians, Molech to the Canaanites, Baalzebub to the Philistines, Rah to the Egyptians and of course Apollo to the Greeks.  Revelation even calls him by his Greek name Apollyon, an alternate spelling of Apollo.

People try to interpret scripture based on pre-conceived bias.

Offline Star of David

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People try to interpret scripture based on pre-conceived bias.

That's also true of people trying to interpret prophecy based on pre-conceived bias.

Here is what I posted on a Internet discussion board in 2006 that was devoted to Christian End Times prophecy that is now defunct (ProphecyTalk.com) that takes a step back in explaining how the recognized prophecy experts today are repeating the same mistake made by the recognized Jewish prophecy experts of 2,000 years ago:


A lesson can be learned from past precedent, I believe, in that history is repeating itself in a very real way: It is my understanding that 2,000 years ago, the Jewish religious leaders in Israel expected a Messiah to appear one day in the form of a powerful Jewish warrior who would liberate Israel from the tyranny of Rome's domination. Instead, Christians today (including myself) believe that Jesus fulfilled these Jewish messianic prophecies as a Sacrificial Lamb who died for the sins of all mankind. Fast forward 2,000 years, and I am confident that the popular Antichrist, Armageddon, etc. scenario that is embraced by millions of Christians today will be similarly shown to be unfounded as I believe that Jesus will return to a world much like the one that we live in today, with its usual ups and downs. This scenario is supported by Christ's prediction in Matthew 24:38 (from the Olivet Discourse) in which He said that when He returns, people will be in the middle of "eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage," which, to me, sounds like a typical, ordinary day.
   
« Last Edit: Thu Aug 10, 2017 - 16:16:37 by Star of David »

Offline the_sign

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When the subject of "The Antichrist" is addressed in the New Testament Epistles, the original basis is found in several of the prophecies in the Book of Daniel.

Not only the great statue of the various empires (kingdoms), but those with greater specificity such as Daniel 8:23-24, 9:26, 11:3-4, 11:21-45, and 12:11 & 12.

I have less qualms about reporting after the destruction of the antichrist which occurred on Ascension Sunday, May 8, 2016 A.D. than I did prior to and/or during the actual reign (September 12, 2012 A.D. to the 1,335th day of Daniel 12:12, Ascension Sunday, May 8, 2016 A.D.)

But here is one such effort :

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/21691-end-of-days/

We are in a transferred time period according to that which has been foretold in Luke 21:26, that the virtues (powers) of Heaven shall be moved :

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-three-days-of-darkness-november-24-26-2016-a-d/


Sign...I don't know where you are getting all of this, but it is not only not "orthodox" but not according to normal math...are you using that 'common core' math stuff???

At some point in time it is a matter of perspective.

It is also a matter of terms and how one is going to treat them.

The Book of Daniel does not translate to English to include the word "Antichrist", but many are the posts which attempt to give "Antichrist" an identity based upon a quote and/or quotes from the Holy Bible.

The closest thing to a picture postcard informing you that the termed "Antichrist" was revealed occurred in Chester County Court of Common Pleas in the spring of 2013 A.D.

But as of the 1,335th day of Daniel 12:12, Ascension Sunday, May 8, 2016 A.D., it would be an error to treat all "antichrists" as anything but that which the breath of Christ is destroying.

Offline SwordMaster

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sign said...

Quote
But as of the 1,335th day of Daniel 12:12, Ascension Sunday, May 8, 2016 A.D., it would be an error to treat all "antichrists" as anything but that which the breath of Christ is destroying.

sign, you apparently don't have a clue about how to interpret Daniel, nor prophecy, it seems. The 1335 days of Daniel directly accord with the last 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation...and since we have not been living in those days, May 8, 2016 was NOT the end of those 1335 days.

Sorry, but your eschatology does not line up with Scripture.


Offline the_sign

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Sorry,
I detect a dose of insincerity with that, but let's examine the rest of your content.

Within a six month time frame, when did you unseal the Book of Daniel?

Offline SwordMaster

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I detect a dose of insincerity with that, but let's examine the rest of your content.

Within a six month time frame, when did you unseal the Book of Daniel?

Three and a half years...the second half of the Tribulation period. Since no demon locusts have come up out of the pit to sting people, we have not entered into the first three and a half years yet...therefore (try to follow along)...if the first part has not yet occurred, then the second part cannot start either.

I don't know where you are getting your eschatology from, but its not based upon clear logical conclusion.


Offline the_sign

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Within a six month time frame, when did you unseal the Book of Daniel?

Three and a half years...

That isn't a valid answer.

The question was given to you on Friday, August 25, 2017 A.D., so your answer should be a specific date or a reference to a specific date within six months.

The question isn't actually designed to cause you to stumble, you do show some signs of logic; but your basis of answering the question only shows you are willing to tamper with the Book of Revelation, and the Book of Revelation includes a warning not to do so in Chapter 22:18-19.

Do you honestly think a reckless, wise-guy attitude is going to bring you to a higher level of achievement; read what Proverbs has to say about fools to ascertain what your current path holds for the future.

The Angel and the Holy Spirit told Daniel to seal the Book (Daniel 12:4), and it was revealed that the words were sealed until the time of the end (Daniel 12: 9).

This "time of the end" is also found in Daniel 11:40, which includes the mass apostasy of which St. Paul wrote, people being so hateful that one can see the fulfillment of Daniel 11:21; if everything is hunky-dory, why do storms like Harvey still pound the surf?

So before the concluding chapters 11 & 12 can be interpreted, the Book of Daniel must first be unsealed, and there was a specific day when that happened, the time and place also having the same royal aura to which one finds Daniel throughout that book of prophecy.

I was there when it happened.

Care to try again?

Offline SwordMaster

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That isn't a valid answer.

The question was given to you on Friday, August 25, 2017 A.D., so your answer should be a specific date or a reference to a specific date within six months.

The question isn't actually designed to cause you to stumble, you do show some signs of logic; but your basis of answering the question only shows you are willing to tamper with the Book of Revelation, and the Book of Revelation includes a warning not to do so in Chapter 22:18-19.

Do you honestly think a reckless, wise-guy attitude is going to bring you to a higher level of achievement; read what Proverbs has to say about fools to ascertain what your current path holds for the future.

The Angel and the Holy Spirit told Daniel to seal the Book (Daniel 12:4), and it was revealed that the words were sealed until the time of the end (Daniel 12: 9).

This "time of the end" is also found in Daniel 11:40, which includes the mass apostasy of which St. Paul wrote, people being so hateful that one can see the fulfillment of Daniel 11:21; if everything is hunky-dory, why do storms like Harvey still pound the surf?

So before the concluding chapters 11 & 12 can be interpreted, the Book of Daniel must first be unsealed, and there was a specific day when that happened, the time and place also having the same royal aura to which one finds Daniel throughout that book of prophecy.

I was there when it happened.

Care to try again?

Not really...and my last reply wasn't really an answer. Your theology as far as Daniel and Revelation is concerned is off (that is, not according to Scripture)...perhaps you are a Preterest or something akin to it...either way, your response before demonstrates that you are not applying any kind of accepted hermeneutic when you claim that the last three and a half years prophesied (which are distinctly the last three and a half years of the Great Tribulation period) just ended last year...or began...I don't rightly remember which you claimed. Either way, you are incorrect, which throws serious doubt upon anything else that you claim.

Good luck.